How to Set Gain Structure Live Sound | Let your console live its best life

[@inkrebel1136]

Packed full of info. The type of video I can watch again and chew over. Thanks for sharing!

[@dexgames4366]

I hope you keep all these awesome videos coming. I appreciate the fact that it's always about "Live" engineering on your channel. You're my reliable source of information for Live Sound environment. (even though it happens I might already know about a given topic) I watch it anyway, always something to take away. Most of the other channels cover the same topics, but in a studio context :( Anyway, just a word of encouragement. Keep going !

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks Dex! Live sound isn't quite as "glamorous" as studio, plus it's a lot easier to make a video in your home studio rather than in a live sound venue. But I'm setting out to make great sounding churches and skilled church sound techs the norm rather than the exception.

[@jxjarvi]

Great video. Lines up exactly and simply with my knowledge from 40 years of working with PA and recording systems. Unfortunately I'm now in a band where the leader and sound guy don't seem to understand this. I am using a Yamaha MX61 and after forty years of playing organ, I have a sound guy who is demanding I not use the swell pedal. I am running direct two stereo outputs into a Boss stereo volume pedal. Have been using it for five years. Anybody that actually plays organ will tell you how essential a swell pedal is. It's my belief the simple solution to any volume problems in the house mix would be fixed by simply setting the gain with enough headroom to account for my swell pedal increasing the volume, which is what you mention in reference to guitar pedal boards. Anybody else have any thoughts on this? This new sound guy doesn't seem to want to adjust because he wants total control over my volumes. Should I also let this guy control when I use my mod wheel to use Leslie speaker effect? Thanks for any ideas and glad I found your channel!

[@dBassCline]

I love graphs! So I like digital mixers....... The picture that displays when adjusting compression, gates or EQ us super helpful for me.

[@AttawayAudio]

I hear you on that... but if you ever get an analog desk REALLY dialed in and the band is on point, it's a thing of beauty

[@jackzvids126]

I discovered your channel like two days ago and I looove you vids, your tips are awesome. And it would be amazing if you make a video with pro tips on ear protection when mixing live FOH, thanks for uploading such good videos !

[@AttawayAudio]

Hey thanks Jackz! That's a great idea! 🙌🙌🙌

[@virendrakumarmali4755]

Hi James.. hw r u? I really loves ur videos. A huge thnx for great videos. I just wanna tell u please make a detailed video on how to mix with 32 channel analog consoles (Eg. Yamaha MGP32X) with inputs, outputs, compressor, effects, gain structure graphic eq and all other essential parameters & facilities which we found on a analogue console. Hope for your positive responses. Thnx again.😊

[@gracenotes5379]

I started out sending uncompressed, unprocessed direct-outs to the monitor mixers, which meant that the musicians were isolated from everything I might do on the console other than changing the pre-amp gains. But recently, I've realized how hard it is to keep an in-ear mix in balance on the stage with no compression available, especially if you're having different singers taking turns leading out on various songs, or the drummer/guitarist/bass player gets way more excited in worship than s/he did in sound check. So, I've taken to sending post-compressor versions of the channels to the on-stage personal mixers because they need compression almost as much as the FOH does. My next step would be to use a several mix busses as sub-groups to add some bus compression to various groups before sending to the stereo mains, as I suspect some subtle bus compression could be all that is needed to get the musician's in-ear compression into the shape I want it for FOH. This latter idea was inspired by watching your Gain Structure vid, so I can't report how well it works yet, but I can't see how it would be a bad thing. Do you have any comments about that?

[@AttawayAudio]

That's great thinking Charles! And you're spot on - sometimes the musicians need a little dynamic help, and your method of using gentle compression on the input channels and using group compression to polish your mix is an elegant, pro-level solution. The only thing you have to be careful of is how the group compressor responds to one input hitting harder than the rest; it can be a good thing or a bad thing, but it's something to watch out for. You'd likely enjoy this video where Dave Rat describes his mixing strategy kzbin.info/www/bejne/g36wnoVnqpV2fM0

[@gracenotes5379]

Attaway Audio Yes, I had Dave Rat’s technique in mind as I wrote this, which adds to my motivation to go this way, at least as an experiment. I’m hoping that a fairly conservative approach to the bus compression, along with relatively slow attack times, will help me avoid obnoxious auto ducking type artifacts within groups.

[@AttawayAudio]

Yeah group compression definitely responds differently than individual instrument compression. Let me know how it goes!

[@stephenabrock]

Picture is getting polished! Attaboy™, James!

[@AttawayAudio]

My legal team thanks you for adding the trademark symbol 😂 And yes, the audio guy FINALLY learned how to use his camera 14 months later

[@nathanaelkadiwa7123]

Hi James, I love and always look forward to your new videos. I'm jus wondering and looking forward to a video on broadcast/livestreeam mix. The ins and out of it.

[@AttawayAudio]

That’s a great idea! Thanks Nathanael!

[@Ethan_N]

Gosh, this is awesome! The most informative tutorial on gain structure I've come across. Thanks so much!

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks Ethan!!🙌🏼

[@justinssleeyt]

Thanks for sharing your experience with all of us!

[@joselamtp]

Exciting indeed ! I'm a newbiein sound mixing just can't get it in full, maybe be 10% 😃🤣

[@manydreams1life315]

Venue Main EQ is always my biggest challenge. I’ve used all the DBX and other units. Ear still works best but there’s still room for improvement and remains my last big hurdle or challenge at a gig.

[@AttawayAudio]

totally. I'm planning more videos for that soon.

[@manydreams1life315]

@@AttawayAudio - I’ll be watching - like I do all your videos. Thanks for your posts and insights.

[@sunderjirahim]

I prefer all analog equipment. I learned on Mackie and Midas mixers and dbx Eq, Compressors and Gates and Digitech efx units. Lots of outboard equipment.

[@srinivasnaraen]

You are great. Thanks for your informative videos. Love you. Keep posting and educating small engineers.

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks Srinivas! There are no small engineers, only small venues 😂

[@DeltaWhiskeyBravo13579]

Great info James. Back in the day of everything analog, we still had plug-ins. I mean how else did you power it? I started my Church audio technician path on a Mackie 24 channel analog. Now I'm using a Studio One DAW to mix for the Livestream.

[@jhormandavidjaraba5067]

Thankful to you my friend, can I show you my mix for some extra help?

[@DallasLevez]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge & experience

[@michaelyoung7911]

I love the way you explain stuff super awesome video probably the best one on KZbin explaining gain structure

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks for the encouragement Michael! 🙌

[@JonathanWilder-cg2lx]

To state an absolute range of -12dBFS to -18dBFS is a misnomer. Unlike analog mixers that use +4dBu as their reference level (0dB on the meter = +4dBu), digital mixers use the mixer's maximum rated clean output as their reference level (0dBFS = maximum rated clean output, or MRCO). MRCO varies from one digital mixer to the next. There is no standard. A Behringer XR-18 has an MRCO of +16dBu (4.89Vrms), while a Soundcraft Ui24R has a MRCO of +20.5dBu (8.2Vrms). That's an output difference of almost 70%! +4dBu (1.23Vrms) being the standard line level output, the XR-18 would be at +4dBu with an indication of -12dBFS, while a Soundcraft Ui24R would be at +4dBu with an indication of -16.5dBFS. -18dBFS on a Ui24R would be +2.5dBu, while representing -2dBu on an XR-18. While we can say "you don't worry about that on digital mixers, that's analog nonsense", keep in mind that you're interfacing a digital mixer with analog gear downstream, thus it absolutely DOES matter. While setting the input gain ensures the ADC's have ample signal to work with, you'll find yourself having to push faders above unity if you're not setting the channel gains high enough. Now...how to read the meter. When they say to set the signal to a given level, that does NOT mean set it so the signal is only reaching that level on peaks. It should be lighting the meter indication at the level you want 100% of the time that signal is present. -6dBFS on all mixers = 50% MRCO. You can set the gain such that the signal is peaking at -6dBFS and still be on the safe side of clipping. Don't be afraid. The more clean gain you can get from a source the better.

[@paddyeire96]

Great vid again James, thanks!!

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks Pat! It's all about the low end :)

[@syedshahbazali1417]

I love ur videos .. keep posting new videos 🔥 much love

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks Shahbaz Ali! Right back atcha

[@dynodansmoking]

Thank you for this info. I continue to have an issue that that has been an issue ever since I can remember. It's with the pulpit microphone. When I set the gain like normal it's too hot of a signal for my house . Feed back with not enough volume for the people to hear clearly. But I have good signal to the Livestream aux. When I bring that down to address the feedback in the house then I have to max out my Livestream aux and sometimes that still isn't enough for some people speaking on that mic. I've tried ringing out that channel but it always comes back to the same issues. Any help?

[@djmarybaloo]

Hello I have a little request: what is the information needed to get started in live sound technology. thank you.

[@cnuch82]

Hai sir give suggestion .. cani conect wireless microphone receiver to audio mixer thru audio isolater

[@gmdsound6730]

Hey James. How do i set the volume of powered speakers?

[@dbunchg]

Thank you for this video

[@kingpin_fred]

Good day sir, I have a question, When I use an analogue mixer, the master fader level meter reaches almost at around -3db , in the yellow range, But since I started using the Si impact, it only reaches the 3rd fader - 24 dB from buttom Although I've set all Gain to normal yellow strip gauge on the input. Is that normal with the SI, or it's something I'm not fixing right

[@AttawayAudio]

digital consoles leave a lot more headroom. so you're probably ok

[@mark12.31]

Good stuff. And I wish I had that SSL lol

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks Mark! It is a very nice system!

[@paulmorrey733]

Thanks

[@stringsofworshipph8846]

Awesome Tips!

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks! Glad you found it helpful

[@timsmith9578]

Thanks, info is very useful

[@AttawayAudio]

Glad it's helpful for you!

[@JoashButhello]

Can clipping cause damage to the mixing console?

[@terasestHammasratas]

It probably won't if you aren't clipping too hard, but it's not recommended and it will likely ruin sound quality. Analogue clipping (or saturation) can be desirable in some situations, but you should do that with something other than the mixer. In conclusion, it's best fo avoid clipping at the mixer.

[@richhenk9621]

VCA's vs. DCA's. I always thought it was the opposite. You can send eq,dynamics, fx to VCA and DCA's you can't.

[@AttawayAudio]

Yeah VCAs and DCAs are the same thing with a different name. You can assign an FX send or return fader to a VCA, but you can't add any processing, since it's just controlling the fader level remotely. Thanks for the comment Rich!

[@davidgiga1993]

Quick correction: You can't clip internally in most digital mixers (even though they indicate clipping, it's not actually clipping the signal). On any modern digital mixer the only relevant points for clipping are A/D and D/A since internally mixers sum with 32bit or even more

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks David!

[@onzkicg]

Do you add eq & compression to main L/R channel?

[@AttawayAudio]

Very rarely. It's not until I've got a mix really dialed in that I might play with stereo bus compression. Other times, there can be small room-tuning issues that pop up that I want to address quickly, but those are only slight adjustments that I might make on the fly. Again, very rare.

[@RexyFan]

Hi XR18 user here.. What if gain on the channels are set to around -18 (no way near clipping), but now I’m pushing my faders way above unity to get decent volume ? I’m talking +5 or +8 Should i just readjust my gains by turning them up more so it starts to hit the orange colour, that way I can bring the faders back down? I noticed you mentioned something similar around the 6.10mark about dialling in the amps, but I think my digital mixer has the amp built in ? Sorry I’m not a sound engineer so sorry if that last comment made no sense lol

[@AttawayAudio]

You're on the right track. If your channel faders are at +5 or +8, just bump up your gain by 5 or 8dB. You'll be ok. And they set up their meters to make sure people don't come close to clipping, so don't be alarmed if you're making the colors change 😀

[@RexyFan]

@@AttawayAudio Thank you

[@georgethompson1535]

Where do you put your faders when you start setting gain?

[@AttawayAudio]

I like 0-ish

[@freemandiaz5123]

Here for the ice cream 🍦

[@AttawayAudio]

You'll have to settle for hot tea in the winter

[@freemandiaz5123]

@@AttawayAudio hahaha! In a cup with a lid.

[@AttawayAudio]

Well it's not like ice cream is really welcome around the console either 😂

[@frankservant5754]

Every church ever: Volume knob = Gain bro same

[@AttawayAudio]

Could you turn up the volume by two quarts?

[@andym7333]

so normally singers dont listen to any compression on their vocals in their iem mix ?????????having a lil wrestle with this thease last days helppp

[@AttawayAudio]

Well hopefully they're singing dynamically with the band, so their monitor mix's dynamics are really important. It's not that I NEVER want compression in their monitors, just not as much as I use at FOH when I'm riding the faders up and down with the band's dynamics.

[@andym7333]

@@AttawayAudio thanks master cause im forced to listen to the foh mix only .... i should only use a litle comp on voc right ?

[@AttawayAudio]

It really depends on the singer... some of them like it thisclosetotheirface the whole time, while others like it to come down with the music, but unless there's a specific sound I know they're going for, or if the band mix is also really compressed, I lean toward less compressed for their IEMs.

[@russellkinder5130]

I like analog consoles.

[@jacobphilip1942]

👍👍

[@freemandiaz5123]

#singtojesus

[@AttawayAudio]

YES 🙌🙌🙌

[@johnoosterhuis6174]

Menards drip. Save big money baby.

[@AttawayAudio]

love me some cheap t-shirts too

[@p3trolhead]

greek and latin

[@livemixpriyan]

It is so informative and usefull, but why are u in such a hurry? Wouldn't it be better, to speak abit calm and slow, so everybody can grasp what you say ( if u intend to do so). If u can take a bit more time, these videos will be more use full. Cheers!

[@AttawayAudio]

I'm a work in progress 😁

[@valeriiduliaev1744]

Add subtitles in Russian pls

[@valeriiduliaev1744]

I thank you very much. I want to understand all your videos.

[@AttawayAudio]

I hear you! I'll start working on that

[@paulo_00]

Funny, but the audio of this video is extremely bad

[@AttawayAudio]

sorry

[@priyansam6179]

Hey another nice usefull video. But u speak way too fast. Just do it slower and easier even an non english-speaking person can understand it. That would be more helpfull to absorb everything what u wanna explain to us. Please consider this.

[@AttawayAudio]

Hey Priyan, thanks for the feedback! I'll try and slow it down for future videos. Have you tried it at .75 speed? Subtitles can be helpful too, even if they're not completely accurate 😬

[@desnowboarder]

Love ya but you speaking Chinese. I hear you talking but I don't understand