How To Think Podcast: An Interview with Dr. Tom Wadsworth

[@dennishuxley747]

I’ve been talking about these things, albeit without the same level of scholarship for 45 years. Others have as well. I do mission work in Pakistan, where I have taught the churches to meet as they did in the 1st century, telling them that the purpose of meeting is fellowship and teaching one another. They have been very enthusiastic about the results.

[@Zatoichi82]

Wow! Keep up the good work, brother. May the Lord keep blessing your work and your essembly.

[@dennishuxley747]

@ thank you!

[@Lee-ff1do]

the reason for church is gathering together as family and if ya don't keep it that simple ya going backwards

[@memphispancho]

I did mission work to Sumatra & Borneo. 10 years leader of a small group plus AA meetings. Perhaps those experiences helped us to see more what a Biblical church is like.

[@JacquelineHahn1]

I too was raised Lutheran and could not understand the big differences between what I read in the Bible and experienced in the Lutheran church. I prayed for understanding to God and asked Him what was I missing . I discovered I needed to repent and be born again. I have been a member of a few denominations over the 30 years and now I am just a simple follower of Yeshua Messiah trying to act justly love mercy and walk humbly

[@kristenspencer9751]

similar to my story. We had wonderful friendships in the Church and for many members, God was of extreme importance. But much was also just "religion". Infant baptism. I grew up thinking only the pastor was able to speak with God and understand his word. During the Jesus People movement of the early 70's, I heard the term "born again" and had no idea what that was! God graciously saved me many years later and I would call myself just a Christ-follower...a disciple, a servant.

[@georgemooyman7155]

I have been a Christian a long time and I believed and taught that one had to repent and be born again and I no longer believe that.

[@traditionalgirl5585]

@@georgemooyman7155 I am not sure how you came to that conclusion since Jesus tells us this is how we are to know we are saved... Anyone who has been truly saved, has a testimony. If you do not have a testimony, then you are not saved, for recieving the Holy Spirit is a tangible experience which transforms one's life into being holy.

[@traditionalgirl5585]

@@dreadfultrue Yes, I was not part of a church when I was saved either. I did believe in God. I just wanted to know the truth, so I asked God to show me the truth, and he led me to Jesus.

[@georgemooyman7155]

Well, Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus, and he didn't know what Jesus meant either. You will know that Jesus said this prior to him making the sacrifice on the cross. I believe he was referring to the nation of Israel, who were still under the law. The gospel changed after the cross to grace as Jesus had fulfilled the punishment that was associated with the law. Under grace salvation is believing that I am a sinner and that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and rose again for my sins. Most people who call themselves "born again" also believe they are saved by grace and mix the two together.

[@micahwatz1148]

The amount of studying and history, Biblical soundness that you've condensed down is truly amazing Tom. I was raised Christian and didnt really start understanding the big picture until my late 20s. You explain in 30 mins what it took me years and years to even begin to start understanding 😂 Thank God for the internet.

[@Aservant56]

altar, priests, sacrifices... pagan temples - Thank you for bringing out the truth! I have thought this for years but your study, brother Tom, brings crystal clarity. I'm so SICK of the uninterrupted monologues of someone giving about what HE finds interesting! God continue to bless you!

[@talisikid1618]

Especially what you find interesting. The worst of all. Right? Hebrews 13:17

[@truthspkr1]

I went to a Nazarene Church for about 12 years where the Sunday School was a interactive format. We were all set in a circle. The leader would speak for a little while at first and then open it up to conversation and it was very uplifting. That is one suggestion for pastors to do. We had four adult Sunday School classes. Two were held in each service and there were two services in the morning. It gave people a lot of selection and they could freely choose which service or which class to go to.

[@richeleortiz5181]

Chuck Missler taught this for years. Thankyou for this video.

[@traditionalgirl5585]

A lot of Satanists love that guy... gives me the willys.. would never follow him

[@Vasi_00]

Thank you for the doctoral dissertation in PDF . Already printed it and shared it with friends. The issue I see in my country and overall church is no one is taught to share the Gospel outside church. No new converts, we just prepare ourserlves for Heaven. Millions go to hell meanwhile...

[@kristenspencer9751]

While salvation doesn't depend on "us" (thank goodness!) we will be judged for what we do in Christ's name while on earth. Not all are evangelists, but everyone should be open and available for actively sharing their faith.

[@1Whipperin]

The concern you raise about the lack of evangelism outside the church and the focus on self-preparation for heaven is worth addressing, but your diagnosis of the issue and the implied solution needs a closer look. Let me rebut and rebuke with biblical clarity. Firstly, the idea that "no one is taught to share the Gospel outside church" might reveal an overreliance on institutional church programs to accomplish what Scripture assigns to individual believers. Evangelism is not a professionalized task delegated to pastors, programs, or special "outreach" ministries. Jesus commands all His disciples-not just a select few-to "go and make disciples" (Matthew 28:19-20). If evangelism isn't happening, it's likely because Christians have misplaced their priorities or lack an understanding of their personal responsibility in the Great Commission. Secondly, the suggestion that "no new converts" are being made may not be entirely accurate. Across the globe, people are coming to Christ every day, even in areas where the visible institutional church may seem ineffective. God's work is not hindered by human failures (Isaiah 55:11). However, if your local context lacks visible fruit, it might be worth examining whether the Gospel being shared is a biblical one. Is the message clear about sin, repentance, and faith in Christ alone? Or is it diluted with feel-good platitudes or social activism? A faithful presentation of the Gospel often bears fruit (Romans 1:16), but when the message is muddled, the results reflect that. Thirdly, your lament about "millions going to hell" deserves to be met with biblical sobriety rather than emotionalism. Yes, eternal judgment is a reality, but Scripture reminds us that salvation belongs to the Lord (Psalm 3:8; Jonah 2:9). It is God who regenerates hearts, not human effort or guilt-driven activism. While we are called to preach the Gospel, we must not assume responsibility for results, which belong to God alone. Lastly, the assertion that the church is merely "preparing ourselves for Heaven" overlooks the deeper purpose of the church as the body of Christ. True preparation for heaven involves active participation in God’s mission on earth-worshiping God, discipling others, and proclaiming the Gospel. The church doesn't exist simply to huddle together and wait for glory; it exists to display God’s manifold wisdom and bring the light of Christ into a dark world (Ephesians 3:10; Matthew 5:14-16). The real issue here may not be a lack of teaching or action, but a misunderstanding of the Gospel's power, a neglect of personal responsibility, and a failure to trust God’s sovereignty in salvation. Rather than lament the church's perceived failures, take up the challenge personally: share the Gospel with urgency and faithfulness, knowing that God, not human ingenuity, ultimately saves souls. Let your concern drive you to obedience, not despair or judgment.

[@andriesvanwyk3226]

@@1Whipperin I needed to hear this, thank you!

[@dougbell9543]

In these troubling times, your research is becoming of increasing importance. May God continue to bless you in this important work. ✔️

[@HowToThink-h7e]

Thank you so much Dr. Tom! It was a pleasure to speak with you and thank you also for all your work in getting people to think!

[@KarenMedley-q3u]

Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola reaches very similar information. Thank you for these truths. Biblical illiteracy is largely responsible for more of this is not taught.

[@garysweeten5196]

We had a home fellowship for several years. One thing that led us to move into a structured service was having children and a need for childcare. As an educator I saw that discipleship was neglected and larger churches happened. I started developing discipleship groups to impact larger fellowships and prepare everyone to be skilled in relationships.

[@Angus-t1j]

Tom, you are reigniting in me a desire for fellowship with the Brethren - whereby we might once again edify one another. I've quit going to church, and often feel like a hermit Believer. (I can see what many Believers, especially after Constantine, sought solace in meditation and escape from religiosity.) I've come to many of your conclusions on my own through the decades, but you are putting the icing on the cake with your deep dive into the historical way the Saints were corrupted between the 2nd and 4th Centuries. How I wish I had been able to read and listen to these teachings 60 years ago. (Frank Viola helped a lot in the 80's and 90's, and yet that has rendered me as one walking in the wilderness. I think that I have a little to offer, even at 80, but so much more that I could benefit from others - not those orators with ThD's so much as simple Believers who love the Lord and want to share, to build up one another. Thank you so much.

[@ludwichpretorius9596]

Most of these were also identified an recorded way back in a book by Frank Viola and George Barna, called "Pagan Christianity" in the mid 2000's. Many more books from Frank Viola followed regarding the organic manner of being part of the ekklesia.

[@kristenspencer9751]

I think some Pentacostal groups have tried to break the mold, but are thought of as "weird". For example, the church I was part of for 13 years...the pastor frequently allowed others with teaching gifts to share the message and it was so refreshing to hear what others were discovering and learning and their styles were all different. People were invited to share testimony and answers to prayers before the congregation (which was only about 100 folks when everyone showed up). If someone had a "word" they were allowed to give it and everyone else could weigh it and consider its merit. Pretty much anyone in the congregation could do a Bible study or video series on any Bible subject they wanted to. The Pastor wanted to encourage members to grow and discover their gifts and give them opportunities to use them. We had a prison ministry team (which I was a part of) and from time to time did street outreaches handing out to homeless folks vouchers for hotdogs from food cart vendors, while different individuals spoke from a platform, performed Gospel music or a skit. You saw people serve where they were gifted and served with their whole heart in joy...rather than someone burdened with a task. Unfortunately, there was pressure from the denomination HQ to achieve and grow and make $$ which had its impact as well.

[@1Whipperin]

While it's true that Frank Viola's *Pagan Christianity* brought attention to many of the issues within modern church practices, it’s important to recognize that, despite the significant contributions made in that book, Viola’s later works seem to fall short in fully addressing the deeper, biblical call for the Church to return to its organic, New Testament roots. Viola certainly highlighted the pagan origins of many church traditions, such as the pastoral system, the church building as a holy structure, and the professional clergy. But, unfortunately, as his work progressed, the focus seemed to shift more towards proposing alternative models, often idealized, that don’t truly address the root issues of the Church's failure to follow the New Testament’s principles of communal living, shared leadership, and mutual participation in the ekklesia. Instead of just offering critiques or presenting idealized solutions, the call should have been for a complete reformation of how Christians engage in everyday church life. Viola’s work, while insightful, missed the critical piece that true restoration comes only when believers embrace a radical return to Scripture, placing no human mediator between themselves and Christ and truly functioning as the body of Christ in every sphere of life. While books and ideas are helpful, what’s needed most is a personal and communal return to the simplicity of the gospel and the biblical model of the Church-a community where each believer is actively participating and growing through the shared fellowship of the body of Christ, not just intellectual exercises or isolated reforms. Viola may have shed light on the problem, but where are the true calls to action that point believers back to a genuine, biblical, and radical ecclesiastical reform? Where is the comprehensive, Scriptural call to stop depending on human leadership systems and to raise up every member for works of service (Ephesians 4:12)? Simply abandoning traditional systems of worship doesn’t go far enough-it’s about radically rethinking what it means to be the ekklesia, from the ground up, with each member fully engaged. In this sense, Viola dropped the ball by not pushing further into this pressing biblical mandate.

[@ChrisMcClune-qv1cg]

What you’ve just described is all a part of the business model of most churches.

[@samueltucker8473]

We appreciate the well presented

[@TheElizabethashby]

THANK YOU

[@scottre3220]

It seems to me that churches seem to be filled with people looking for a superficial self-edification instead of the edification of others and God. They raise their hands, get the tingles, and never go any deeper into the profound nature of God through Christ Jesus.

[@JRRodriguez-nu7po]

I've known these things for 47 years as I was reborn in a home Church. The elevation of the clergy is the doctrine of the Nico-laitians and is visibly marked by men wearing funny hats by clergy in direct contradiction to 1 cor 11 I agree that Constantine was not at fault. This return to Moses is the topic of entire book of Galatians and came to a head in Acts 15. It was more than circumcision. Christ says the Law cannot be broken and yet Reformed break the law into civil, ceremonial and moral in direct contradiction. Follow the Law of Christ and know that all previous Covenants being fulfilled are buried honorably with the cross.

[@samueltucker8473]

Well studied and respected teacher

[@chrisneeds6125]

You're not alone Dr. Tom-even Elijah couldn't get away with that one 😊

[@lilyg7138]

Seventh Day Adventists believe that Constantine changed ‘The’ Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday (The venerable Day of the Sun) and that Saturday is holy and the day for worship. What do you think?

[@HowToThink-h7e]

There really isn’t a “day” but Paul said they gathered on the first day of the week. Constantine, intentionally or not, merged Church and state which institutionalized “Christianity” as a power.

[@radman6047]

Read about the Millerites.

[@dahweez2902]

@HowToThink-h7e I haven’t heard or seen a comment on the contents of the “Temple, Altar, Priest and sacrifice” and how these are paid for by the people attending? Of course, we are all going to say that these are paid for by the infamous “tithe”. However, I got to thinking that this is also part of temple life in the Old Testament and any modern day religious organization can eloquently explain the reason why we tithe today but how does this fit in the small group scenario. The apostle Paul mentioned supporting the one who teaches or pastors but why didn’t he hold their feet to the fire regarding the tithe? One can’t go to a modern day church in America today without hearing about the tithe. I’ve been to some churches that have a sermon before the main sermon about tithing. It makes sense in the temple scenario but it doesn’t seem to fit in the Ekklesia and probably why it was never mentioned in the NT letters of Paul and the others. I’d love to hear Tom and your thoughts on this?

[@HowToThink-h7e]

@ That is a good observation!Tithing was a specific amount given amongst Israel to the Levites because they weren’t allowed to own land, so a 10th of all from the other tribes went to them. No situation like this exists now…and the tithe no longer applies. That said, supplying for the Pastor/minister is supported biblically, but requiring a recurring 10th isn’t really specified anywhere in the NT. It comes from applying OT to ourselves that doesn’t apply to us. All scripture is for us, not all of it is to us.

[@dahweez2902]

@@HowToThink-h7e yeah the other age old story today is that Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedec from the spoils of war after he defeated the Kings who had taken his family so tithing existed before the law and any slick Willy can justify tithing with that. I’m not trying to get out of giving bc 10 percent was the OT mark but now I believe God owns it all and the HS directs our spending. We are only to remember the poor. This is an area that has been exploited to the nth degree but I believe the system we have today has dragged it into the Temple and made it a mandatory minimum for those who attend or God is going to get you one way or the other according to Malachi.

[@johnlewis9649]

Basically, the Holy Spirit is teaching many people at this time the difference between the "cultural" church and a Biblical church . The Holy Spirit through God's Word is our teacher. WE can not rely on the world's system with intellectualism, rather allow the Spirit to teach us as Christians. The Holy Spirit is referred to as the Spirit of TRUTH. God's work will never be done through man's systems, but through the gifts of the Holy Spirit. We can see this played out many times through church history.

[@JosephBoxmeyer-u3d]

I recall from the 60's the term "the Pastor Family". We had church royalty. I have long been upset with the "pastoral" system with the concern over job security. Pastors are afraid of upsetting women (wives). The liberal women's movement is alive and well in the American Evangelical church because pastor keep it alive. They will not be honest about the wife's marital responsibilities. They are too aware that she can leave and take the husband and family. Pastors maintain the romantic notion of wedding and marriage. Pastors are not fighting the high divorce rate IN the church. I have long realized that the only good pastor would be the man who has done much better financially, and could now do much better by his own practiced skill or his own business. He must be able to leave in a minute. Because, otherwise ( as it is now) he must mute himself for job security. So, I say, burn down the system. Start over small. Everybody makes their livings on their own. And if men were really hungry and learning, there would be no need for Bible College and Seminary. No man should ever assume that any "church" owes him a living.

[@sassybob9137]

John Wesley promoted the Small Group gatherings a long time ago in The Church of England that became The Methodist Church.

[@bobobricklayer]

I have listened to Tom several times. I certainly believe that the church has evolved into something that was not intended and that we need to have that conversation, regardless of who doesn’t like it. What is missing from his thinking is the Presence and working of the Holy Spirit in our midst as we assemble. His Presence is what makes our assembling together different than any other assembling of people in the world-God is among us. We experience the One True God and Jesus Christ whom He sent. John makes this statement in I John 1:3 that truly our fellowship is not just with each other but the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. The church of Corinth had a working of the Holy Spirit in such a manner that the secrets of an unbeliever’s heart would be exposed and their reaction would be to fall on their face declaring that truly was God was among them. Which pastor or song leader would allow that today? We’ve been manipulated by the so-called clergy, Christian music industry and now the end times prophecy cabal. Buy my books and teachings, get tickets for my conference and join my patreon channel along with sending your offerings. The church is in apostasy as predicted.

[@Faith-d4p]

@@bobobricklayer yes it is all about the Holy Spirit and his illumination and teaching us not man. Very hard one for believers for some reason to get this but it is scripturally accurate.

[@novypam]

💯 percent...

[@traditionalgirl5585]

@@Faith-d4p Bingo

[@samueltucker8473]

This is how we got here

[@CSUnger]

Yup.

[@nuatom960]

Tom, why do you have a commercial every 5 minutes on your channel? It's quite a distraction

[@johnmillstead8396]

Can you outline an ideal meeting in today's context? I so want to be the man God wants me to be and to share with and lead others to do the same. What are some things we should teach in the meetings? How to get started? Thanks!

[@HowToThink-h7e]

Dr. Tom has some other videos regarding that. Subscribe to his channel and explore that content.

[@freesparrowsomeday]

Please read the Urantia Book! It clarifies this topic! Changed my life.

[@sallysprague9776]

Looked it up… sounds New Age.

[@bergdaniel6998]

The fact that Paul had to emphasize the why of the assembly, to edify, is that edification tends to be overlooked and swept aside by other needs. The idea we currently emphasis about the Bible as a final authority for faith and practice misleadingly presents the subjective interpretation of the text with both translator bias and reader bias. Why is my edification important, in fact the most important aspect of Christian fellowship? You are addressing the idea of personal spiritual growth. But one thing seemed to be so radically different about Christianity in the first century that the revolutionary new covenant where God reveals His "light" to the believer so they can then practice His mind. When the people are not edified, they resort to the forms of religious practice, devoid of personal authorization derived from the inner knowledge that God places in his covenant people.

[@traditionalgirl5585]

If one has the Holy Spirit, then one is not reading the Bible alone, my friend.

[@bergdaniel6998]

@@traditionalgirl5585 Aha, how perceptive of you to notice that ascribing to the Bible its inerrancy, yet without repentance and faith toward God, ends poorly in gaining from it the words of life. Yesterday I mentioned to a friend the incident where I was helping another person learn how to use a CAD program. My student's question is prescient, "how do I know what to put in the drawing first, how do I start to draw?" What I alluded to in my earlier comment is that if we have faith in the Bible alone, rather than in the God of the Bible, we easily founder in a morass of confusing bits of a "CAD drawing," because we have not started with the right point of reference. The first thing I concluded from going through the whole Bible book by book was that God is accessible to man, and He reveals Himself to us. That accessibility and leading by Him never required that the people in the Biblical history study the Bible. We see this dramatically in Hebrews chapter one. So, yes, I totally agree with your statement that the Spirit of God is our source, the Bible is but one vehicle He chooses to use to get the message over to us. If that were not so then Christ's message to the Apostles to go teach would have been unnecessary. Also unnecessary would have been to include other people as prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, etc. I appreciate your comments and your desire to edify me.

[@traditionalgirl5585]

@ Having the Bible is good, but in my own experience with the Holy Spirit for over twenty years, if I am about to do something wrong, it is brought to my attention inwardly... immediately.

[@samueltucker8473]

Yeast is a culture and it has an effect

[@bryanhodge3978]

To claim pride is an unwarrented assumption of motives. You can't see into the heart of another.

[@memphispancho]

It was and is the anti-religion. I remember in the Case for Christ movie a scholar called it, "a whole new gumbo." Not just a new God with a new temple. I commend your courage, Tom. I can't wait to tell everybody they've been doing it wrong like I thought. Hahaha!

[@warrenroby6907]

I appreciate the Gupta reference around 55:00.

[@MichaelTheophilus906]

Deut 6.4-6, Mark 12.28-32, John 17.3, John 20.17, Rom 15.6, I Cor 8.6, II Cor 11.31, I Tim 2.5, Rev 1.5-6, Rev 3.2 &12.

[@sermonillustrations8433]

Emergent Church: Let's dialogue!

[@mrgeorge4489]

Wow @17:17

[@toddbu-WK7L]

I think that the temple system was reinstituted by man for pride, but not only for the purpose of elevating the priests. This temple system today needs both priests (pastors) AND willing followers. So why do millions sit in the pews each week to listen to this kind of preaching? It's for pride, I believe, but the pride of believing that we are in control of our own destiny. You see, when we sit in the pews and hear a message that puts us in charge of our own destiny, we fall into the same trap as Gen 3:4-5 - "But the serpent said to the woman, 'You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.'". We've always wanted to be like God because then we don't need Him.

[@All_Things_Biblical]

Many sincere students of the Bible have discovered these things long ago, especially by going back to the Hebrew roots of the faith. Currently, the band has replaced the pulpit with "the noise of your songs" - pure apostasy. Ezekiel 26:13 and Amos 5:23.

[@gabrielfrund9497]

Why is lithurgy similar to catholic mass in all historical denominations, And also there a finding recent artefacts with mary worship on an arly papyrus and protection amulet with bible verse in germany

[@HowToThink-h7e]

Paul said during his time there were false brethren: Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: And many people who turned away from him: 2 Timothy 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes. Something being “early” does not make it CORRECT. This is the appeal to antiquity fallacy.

[@MrJimwinder]

There was an opportunity in the end of this video to share the gospel. Unfortunately, it didn’t really come across clearly at the end. God is real, and he is holy. All men have sinned and fall short of his glory. Because God is just he can and will execute his justice. His wrath will be outport on all of the ungodly. He will hold every man accountable for every thought, word, deed that did not bring him glory. He gave us his law to follow. Knowing that we cannot follow that law. He used it as a means to show us our inability , to show us our sin, and drive us to him for forgiveness. God sent his son to this earth in the form of a physical man, and yet he was without sin. That qualified him to live the perfect life that we should live. And this man Jesus, died on a cross to forgive our sins. Jesus fulfills both things for us. He is the perfect righteousness that God requires of us, and he has forgiveness for every sin we ever committed or will commit in this life. This is the good news of the gospel.

[@tobytootimes7639]

Thank you, brother.

[@bryanhodge3978]

Just because 1 Corinthians 14 emphasizes edification does not mean that this was the only reason for assembling.

[@talisikid1618]

Hebrews 13:17

[@benjaminramirez7156]

I did not need a phd to know what the bible says about edification and to serve and love one another, which the Holy Ghost taught me over 40 years ago. I know how to read and how to let the holy Ghost show me the truth.

[@Creolemonkey]

Go to fellowship. Meet with brethren. Know the difference between what is cooperate and what is individualistic. Never allow anyone to mk you confuse the two. Also, know what is under the durisdiction of the church and what is your own private and personal affairs. Be loving, be sociable and everything that adds to the community of believers but never let any take advantage of your Christian virtues....PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN. Put everyone in his or her respectful place without being rude or overly defensive but you got to take care of yourself cause only you have to right to do so. And pray,pray,pray...read the word,read the word. Once you are sincere and you follow these and other guidelines you're bound to be ok.

[@traditionalgirl5585]

The brick and mortar churches have been infiltrated with black magic masons. They have been infiltrating it for a long time. On top of that, they are all 501c which makes them subservent to the government who hates christians...Look at what happened during "covid".. they all shut down. I say, adios.

[@roberthesseling832]

If you want to rock your boat, study Pauline Mid Acts Dispensationalism!

[@timwilson2920]

Amen ! Also, study with the KJV !

[@HowToThink-h7e]

I’m a moderate dispensationalist so have a few issues with Mid Acts…however dispensationalism is a huge step in the right direction!

[@jamesmulligan1077]

Kurt said @ 41:58 that The Lord Jesus corrected John when he fell down at His feet. What Bible verse is he talking about? Why would the Lord need to correct John for worshiping Him. Do you not believe Jesus Christ is to be worshiped? Can you please clarify your theology on that. Revelation 1:17 John fell down as dead with fear. The Lord touched him in order to strengthen Him and said:”Do not be afraid, I am the first and the last”. So no1 there was no worship but falling down as dead, and no 2 there was no correction. In revelation 22:8-9 is clear about John falling down to worship at the feet of an angel, NOT Jesus, and the angel corrected him.

[@HowToThink-h7e]

You do have a point, and there is some nuance I am still working out. Worship involves fear: Hebrew: שׁחה Transliteration: shâchâh Pronunciation: shaw-khaw' Definition: A primitive root; to {depress} that {is} prostrate (especially reflexively in homage to royalty or God): - bow (self) {down} {crouch} fall down ({flat}) humbly {beseech} do (make) {obeisance} do {reverence} make to {stoop} worship. KJV Usage: worship (99x), bow (31x), bow down (18x), obeisance (9x), reverence (5x), fall down (3x), themselves (2x), stoop (1x), crouch (1x), misc (3x). The following is the word gear used in Rev. 1:17 Greek: φοβέω Transliteration: phobeō Pronunciation: fob-eh'-o Definition: From G5401; to frighten that is (passively) to be alarmed; by analogy to be in awe of that is revere: - be (+ sore) afraid fear (exceedingly) reverence. KJV Usage: fear (62x), be afraid (23x), be afraid of (5x), reverence (1x), misc (2x). And here is reverence in both Hebrew and Greek In Hebrew it is the same word for worship, as above Ephesians 5:33 it is also phobeo…and this is describing the relationship with the Church and Christ as compared to a husband and wife. SOOOO…all that to say still piecing it together, but Jesus telling John not to fear is interesting and there does seem to be an overlap with worship.

[@radman6047]

House churches create force multipliers.

[@samueltucker8473]

Discussing conclusions and how to get there

[@traditionalgirl5585]

Didn't they believe honoring the bones of the martyrs came about due to Elijah's bones raising the dead in the old testament... Didn't come out of no where. You have to admit, some of the saints displayed amazing powers through God, so you can understand...

[@HowToThink-h7e]

Conflating OT and NT. They are different.

[@traditionalgirl5585]

@@HowToThink-h7e If they are so different, why did Jesus reference them all the time. They are a continuation of God's teaching to us, my friend.

[@HowToThink-h7e]

@ what is a testament?

[@traditionalgirl5585]

@ You need to read the New Testament again.. particularly paying attention to Jesus' words. He did not come to abolish but to fulfill... sit in prayer, and ask God to help you. God Bless!

[@HowToThink-h7e]

@ I am intimately familiar with the NT. You should try reading it while abandoning presuppositions and theological lenses and just look at what it says.

[@benjaminramirez7156]

We need to be shown a more perfect way by the Holy Ghost.

[@ludwichpretorius9596]

But as for you, Christ has poured out his Spirit on you. As long as his Spirit remains in you, you do not need anyone to teach you. For his Spirit teaches you about everything, and what he teaches is true, not false. Obey the Spirit's teaching, then, and remain in union with Christ. 1 John 2:27

[@HowToThink-h7e]

Bible covers it: 1 Corinthians 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. The more excellent way is contained in 1 Corinthians 13 the charity (love in action) chapter

[@Th3BigBoy]

36:02 - 36:25 This is an error itself. Scripture tells you to revere the men who labor in the faith. I'm not even an EO or a RC.

[@dave-giveusfree-evans1068]

so we'd have to be clear what the author meant. Was it to get up and tell jokes for 30 minutes a week? To teach a class? I posit those that are actually out in the community making a difference are the laborers, the ones that its easy to come along side and help with the work.

[@ludwichpretorius9596]

But as for you, Christ has poured out his Spirit on you. As long as his Spirit remains in you, you do not need anyone to teach you. For his Spirit teaches you about everything, and what he teaches is true, not false. Obey the Spirit's teaching, then, and remain in union with Christ. 1 John 2:27

[@HowToThink-h7e]

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

[@intentionally-blank]

Let's stop referring to them as 'church fathers'. There are so many issues with this.

[@HowToThink-h7e]

@ totally agree. I refer to them as Church Babies…was just quoting others saying that.

[@CSUnger]

Going to college for your PhD is merely jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. The things of the Spirit are spiritually discerned, not intellectually. We all sense that there’s something fundamentally wrong with the way the “church” practices our Faith but instead of letting it all go and starting from scratch, we’re going to try to figure it out humanly. Good luck with that. That’s just moving the furniture around.

[@ChrisMcClune-qv1cg]

GOD Himself says that to offer Him praise is a sacrifice.

[@terraloft]

Which is not the same as communion though certainly praising Jesus for all He has done for us is testifying to His worthiness of praise. May the Holy Spirit bring us to the unifying power of His presence

[@traditionalgirl5585]

42:01 It wasn't Jesus John fell down to.. it was an angel.. If John fell down to worship Jesus, I am sure Jesus would not be against it... come on... read the Bible...It is in the Book of Revelation.

[@samueltucker8473]

The foundations

[@bryanhodge3978]

Is it sinful to meet in a building. If not, we are spending much time on expedients. I could care less whether one meets under a tree, in a house, rented hall, or purchased building. This is a matter of expediency. Lets not major on non essentials.

[@talisikid1618]

People need guidance and regulation. They’re so bad at it themselves. It’s part of their sin nature. Without structure, the people go mad.

[@tobytootimes7639]

That’s why God gave us the Holy Spirit and the Word. Praise the Lord.

[@bryanhodge3978]

Christians are priest before God and living stone and offer up spiritual sacrifices. We offer the sacrifice of praise the fruit of our lips. This is temple and worship language in the nt. You are not mentioning this. It does not fit your narrative

[@kotchstevens2321]

literally minutes after Jesus rose from the dead? they bowed down, grabbed his feet & worshiped Him! Math:28 9.. seems to be the opposite of what this man is saying on this video..

[@kenid4144]

Is that what churches today call their "worship"?

[@HowToThink-h7e]

Have any of us SEEN the resurrected Christ?

[@traditionalgirl5585]

@@HowToThink-h7e Yes, some have....

[@HowToThink-h7e]

@@traditionalgirl5585 have you? I haven’t. Some have seen aliens prodding them too…how do we test these claims?

[@bryanhodge3978]

Pure and undefiled religion , but they didn't have religion? This is arguing over nothing.

[@apollo8352]

AMEN to that, or should we go all out and say it properly AMEN rah... Of course you all know by saying amen you are paying homage to the Sun god Amen. Fact check the HELL out of religion.

[@chrisneeds6125]

Anyone not following Yeshua ha'Mashiach is following ha'satan, the adversary.

[@kenid4144]

This is ridiculously hilarious

[@HowToThink-h7e]

Fact check everything, including the claim you just made. Here is the Greek word for amen, which has Hebrew origins and a definition Greek: ἀμήν Transliteration: amēn Pronunciation: am-ane' Definition: Of Hebrew origin [H543]; properly firm that is (figuratively) trustworthy; adverbially surely (often as interjection so be it): - amen verily. KJV Usage: verily (101x), amen (51x). Occurrences in Bible: 152 Occurrences in verses: 126

[@kenid4144]

@@HowToThink-h7e Your source seems to be the Strong's Concordance. I wonder how people make wild claims on the internet and are barely bothered about the implications. Is this people make these comments anonymously?

[@HowToThink-h7e]

@ Primarily, this theory is guilty of the etymological fallacy, where words that sound alike from different languages must be related to each other. But, no, this is thoroughly contested with many more sources than just a Concordance: Here’s a thorough debunking of the claim that “Amen” is connected to the Egyptian god Amon Ra, complete with sources and citations: 1. Etymology of “Amen” • “Amen” comes from the Hebrew word אָמֵן (āmēn), meaning “so be it,” “truth,” or “let it be so.” • It is derived from the Hebrew root אָמַן (aman), which means “to confirm,” “to support,” or “to be faithful.” • This root appears throughout the Hebrew Bible, emphasizing certainty and reliability. Sources: • Strong’s Concordance (H543): “Amen” - biblehub.com/hebrew/543.htm • Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary: “Amen indicates certainty and truth.” • Merriam-Webster Etymology of Amen: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/amen 2. Usage in the Bible • In Deuteronomy 27:15-26, the word “Amen” is used repeatedly by the Israelites to affirm their agreement with the blessings and curses of the law. • Jesus frequently used “Amen” in the Gospels. The Greek New Testament records it as ἀμήν (amēn), often translated as “verily” or “truly.” • Example: John 3:3 - “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily [Amen, amen], I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Sources: • Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Gerhard Kittel, Vol. 1, “Amen” • New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis, Willem VanGemeren, “Amen” 3. The Egyptian God Amon (Amun Ra) • Amun (also spelled “Amon” or “Amen”) was an Egyptian deity worshiped as a god of creation and fertility. He later merged with the sun god Ra, becoming Amun Ra. • The name “Amun” (or “Amon”) in Egyptian likely derives from the root meaning “hidden” or “invisible.” • While “Amun” and “Amen” sound similar in English, they are unrelated linguistically. “Amen” comes from Hebrew, while “Amun” originates from the ancient Egyptian language. Sources: • Geraldine Pinch, Egyptian Myth: A Very Short Introduction, Oxford University Press, 2004. • James P. Allen, Middle Egyptian: An Introduction to the Language and Culture of Hieroglyphs, 2014. • Mark Collier and Bill Manley, How to Read Egyptian Hieroglyphs, British Museum Press, 1998. 4. Linguistic Independence • Hebrew and Egyptian are distinct languages from separate linguistic families. Hebrew is a Semitic language, while ancient Egyptian is part of the Afro-Asiatic family. • Linguists confirm that there is no evidence of a borrowing or influence between the Hebrew “Amen” and the Egyptian “Amun.” • Similar-sounding words often exist across languages without any connection (e.g., “two” in English and “tu” in French both sound similar but have independent origins). Sources: • Christopher Ehret, A History of the African Language Families, Cambridge University Press, 2020. • Alan Gardiner, Egyptian Grammar: Being an Introduction to the Study of Hieroglyphs, 1957. 5. Refutation of the Atheist Claim • This claim often comes from anti-religious or pseudo-historical sources seeking to undermine Christianity or Judaism. • Reputable historians and linguists universally dismiss this idea as a misunderstanding or deliberate misrepresentation of history. Sources: • Dr. Ben Witherington III, The Problem with Pseudo-Scholarship in Religion, 2016. • Michael S. Heiser, The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible, Lexham Press, 2015. 6. Theological Context • “Amen” has deep theological significance in both Judaism and Christianity. It affirms trust in God’s promises and the truth of His word. • The Septuagint (Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, 3rd century BC) and the Dead Sea Scrolls confirm the ancient usage of “Amen” as a Hebrew affirmation, long before any influence from Egypt. Sources: • Dead Sea Scrolls Study Edition, Florentino García Martínez and Eibert Tigchelaar, 1997. • The Septuagint with Apocrypha: Greek and English, Lancelot Brenton, 1851. Conclusion The idea that “Amen” is related to the Egyptian god Amun Ra is a false claim rooted in ignorance or deliberate misinformation. Linguistic, historical, and theological evidence overwhelmingly shows that “Amen” is a Hebrew word with no connection to Egyptian mythology. It is a distinct and meaningful term in Judeo-Christian tradition, affirming truth, reliability, and faith in God.

[@willx9352]

So the 'true' church has not existed for nearly two thousand years until Dr Tom Wadsworth. His claims makes those of the Pope look modest.

[@JacquelineHahn1]

Churches in China, Nth Korea, Iran, Iraq and on many mission fields have been doing House church for a long time. We could also mention Waldensians, Annabaptists and other such groups through the Middle Ages etc. The true church is all those who are born again and follow Messiah many have been in denominational churches but did not agree with all the traditions but really had no alternative within their area. Then one needs to take into consideration that most did not have good access to the scriptures for hundreds of years

[@bobobricklayer]

The “True Church” is composed of those who have the Spirit of Christ. (Rom 8, Eph 2:19, I Pe 2:4) What is done when people with the Holy Spirit assemble in the modern era versus the early church is the topic he is discussing. The church has devolved into a man led, man dominated organization versus a Spirit of God led gathering. There isn’t that much written in the NT about how the church should operate but what is written we mostly don’t obey.

[@willx9352]

@@bobobricklayer He is discussing the early church and is saying it became pagan! He is learned enough to know (unlike many similar people), that there is abundant documentation for these supposedly pagan beliefs and practices within a generation of the New Testament writers and that these were not brought into the church by Constantine Indeed, he makes it clear, that on religious matters, Constantine was following what the church wanted, rather than the other way round. What he is saying is that the church ceased to be Christian within a hundred years of Christ. He then proposes that even most Protestants (even the reformers such as Luther, Calvin and even Zwingli) and most modern Protestants have been lead astray and that he has the truth. Not even the Pope makes such a claim.

[@willx9352]

@@bobobricklayer The NT is far from clear how the early church worshipped and organised. It provides us with partial pictures, that is why different Christian churches, claiming to be based on Scripture have different organisational structures. If you could rely solely on scripture for this information, there would not be all these differences on this matter between so called bible believing churches, including, of course Dr Tom Wadsworth, who thinks that he has found the truth on this matter.

[@willx9352]

@@JacquelineHahn1 Most Christians were not literate until the twentieth century. Most Christians, up until then, even in Protestant churches relied on their pastors to tell them what the scripture was about.

[@donaldboomer6313]

Christian priests are not like pagan or OT Temple priests. The English word "priest" is a translated word for the Greek word for "elder" or Presbyter which the Apostles established as one of the offices or position in the infant church beginning in Acts. Just like the religious System in Judaism the Christian Church evolved with the times, conditions and needs of the people. The 70 elders, which became the Sanhedrin, was created by Moses on the advise of Jethro to share in governing and judging the people. The Synagogue developed as local meeting & teaching places for believers from the time of the Babylonian captivity. Jesus attended faithfully every Sabbath. God gave much authority to Jewish leaders just as He did to the New Body of Christ, i.e. laying on of hands to ordain & commission apostles, bishops, pastors, teachers etc. Also Jesus gave authority to forgive or retain sins, to "bind or loose" church rules or laws just as in the Sanhedrin. What Jesus didn't give was every man as an authority unto themselves or a private and authoritative interpreter of scripture. That belongs to the Church and proven with time. Nor did He approve factions and division of the Body. Jesus wanted unity and solidarity in the body of Christ. That automatically shows the problem with the Protestant breakup of the church.

[@HowToThink-h7e]

I’m not Protestant.

[@bobwood5146]

PHD'S Hmmmmm -----I think that is probably your biggest problem when trying to understand biblical doctrine. Most of these people are ever learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. Well, that's what the scriptures teach anyway. Paul was probably one of the higher IQ folks around and he reduced all his wisdom to Christ and Him crucified. Now there is nothing wrong with being intellectually gifted, but scripture tells us that human intellect does not give anyone a leg up when it concerns biblical truth. As a matter of fact, it usually mitigates the spiritual growth process. Somehow, I don't think it would help to quote a few dozen scriptures here. I have listened to a few of your talks, and you leave me wondering where in the world you are coming up with your concept of biblical truth.

[@HowToThink-h7e]

One has to put scholarship in its correct place. It is not the be all end all, nor is it useless. Someone can be a Dr. and be wrong, and someone can be a common man and be correct. Claims should be analyzed by their validity, not by their claimant. I found Dr. Tom’s claims to possess much validity when cross examined.

[@guamconservatoryofarts5551]

Another imbalanced approach. The guy doesn’t place ANY importance on corporal worship. This can’t be right.

[@HowToThink-h7e]

What do you mean by “corporal” worship?

[@sermonillustrations8433]

What is going in heaven forever? Edification of the saints?

[@HowToThink-h7e]

@ different period of time, no?

[@guamconservatoryofarts5551]

@@sermonillustrations8433 Exactly! Continual praise and worship.

[@sermonillustrations8433]

@@guamconservatoryofarts5551 The Lord God desires worship, whether personal or corporate. It is insane to think the church is not about worship.

[@gusloader123]

Argh! About the 46-minute mark is where Tom Wadsworth goes "off the rails" again. You learn nothing in a small group setting because most of the people do not know the difference between Moses or moss / Heresy or hairspray / Babylon or babbling / Tares vs. Tarsus / Pastoral vs. Passover. Small groups are often about "How do you feeeeeelllll about someone/ someplace / something in the Holy Bible instead of the congregational leader (Pastor / Elder) telling - giving a biblical answer to the question. The New Testament warns against having wrong and bad teachers / leaders.

[@JacquelineHahn1]

Where would that scripture about too many buglers be please

[@gusloader123]

@@JacquelineHahn1 I thought that anyone reading this post / thread that had read the New Testament at least once in their life would understand my reference, but it seems that I was wrong. I can change it to: "Too many false teachers". Try this: 1st Corinthians 14:8 to verse 11. Trumpet instead of "Bugle". {I said "Bugle" because years ago I was in the military and the man that plays the bugle (often nowadays it is 3 valve trumpet) and he was / is "The Bugler". Before the invention of field telephones and battery powered radios, the "Bugler" who stood near or rode near the Commanding Officer had a distinct Bugle call for each action ordered by the Commander: "Reveille" to Wake-up, and "Taps" to go to sleep (or at a funeral service), and other important sound signals such as "Charge!" , "Recall!" , "Retreat!", "Assemble!", "Chow Call", "Sick-Call". Each has/had a specific tune, and each member of that military unit needed to learn the sound and meaning of the various Bugle calls, or the battle could be lost. The same goes for the Christians. Too many false sayings / bad / silly instructions can really damage Christians and the Christian faith/religion around the world. Here are two other scriptures to look at and read: 1st Timothy 3:2 and 2ndTimothy 2:24

[@Faith-d4p]

@@gusloader123. Interesting that you say these things when scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit is the one who teaches us not man. I have been out of the church for 10 years now and love scripture. Read it every day and study it with the illumination from the Holy Spirit. Doing fine in understanding and acting on what scripture says.

[@dave-giveusfree-evans1068]

@@Faith-d4p The 'and acting' is whats missing in the 'church' and the world. God bless you!

[@shannoncrawford7212]

I don’t disagree that many/most home groups in western Protestant churches are not structured such that they would constitute a Biblical church. Or that they aren’t ripe for false teachers. But our “real” Protestant churches don’t have a great track record (on the whole/societally either). The Protestant Church in America is in a really bad place right now overall. For the record, I am a member of a Non-denominational (reformed baptist in practice) independent church (main teaching elder attended Masters Seminary); and have no plans to leave or to go to a house church. However, I attended a home group when I lived in a different state that I think may have come close. This was in addition to being a member of an SBC church, not in lieu of. Before I moved to my current location, our family was part of a home group (not church sanctioned, but they knew of it and were fine with it) at our previous church. Several deacons from the church (southern Baptist, didn’t have “elders,” just pastoral staff and deacons) started and led the group. We met every Thursday for 5 years; ate a meal, sang, prayed, and went through a book of the Bible expostionaly. The teaching was led by one the deacons in rotation, but was a discussion type format. None of them had a seminary degree at the time (but a couple were in the process though none planned to enter FT ministry), and would also preach at the Church some on Wed. Nights. The kids would stay in the basement, and the wives would rotate watching them and giving a lesson. I did like the environment and it was a really instrumental time in our families growth, and we grew extremely close with the families in that home group.

[@bobobricklayer]

I have listened to Tom several times. I certainly believe that the church has evolved into something that was not intended and that we need to have that conversation, regardless of who doesn’t like it. What is missing from his thinking is the Presence and working of the Holy Spirit in our midst as we assemble. His Presence is what makes our assembling together different than any other assembling of people in the world-God is among us. We experience the One True God and Jesus Christ whom He sent. John makes this statement in I John 1:3 that truly our fellowship is not just with each other but the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. The church of Corinth had a working of the Holy Spirit in such a manner that the secrets of an unbeliever’s heart would be exposed and their reaction would be to fall on their face declaring that truly was God was among them. Which pastor or song leader would allow that today? We’ve been manipulated by the so-called clergy, Christian music industry and now the end times prophecy cabal. Buy my books and teachings, get tickets for my conference and join my patreon channel along with sending your offerings. The church is in apostasy as predicted.

[@ludwichpretorius9596]

Fully agree. Thanks. Also see 1 John 2:27 But as for you, Christ has poured out his Spirit on you. As long as his Spirit remains in you, you do not need anyone to teach you. For his Spirit teaches you about everything, and what he teaches is true, not false. Obey the Spirit's teaching, then, and remain in union with Christ.

[@intentionally-blank]

And don't miss being part of the great revival complete with music and calling down 'holy' (strange) fire. Always pitting have and have nots.