HOW-TO: Toothpick Slider Tuning - 2 Packs 😎🔥

[@gmivisualsjason3729]

Loving these videos...... Watching the tuning process is so much easier for me to understand what I'm trying to achieve and how to do it... I've just finished a 2.5 inch build so this was fantastic timing...

[@a_mech7336]

Even though I have a different style of tuning, I enjoyed watching how the different pids affected the flight back to back like that.

[@phi-fpv]

My 2.5 in is flying much better now....thank man!

[@explosivefruits]

Awesome vid, I got some new batteries coming in for my original toothpick. Cheers!

[@pacificnorthwestpilots6050]

What an adorable exit clip!

[@PeterDenTV]

my toothpick here doesn't do well with defaults on 4.2 unfortunately. I get that frrrrr (roll that r with your tongue) thing when I push the throttle. My toothpick is a 3 incher with 25 amps escs... What should I do? Also, there's a betaflight configurator in Android? I only see the Speedybee one in Google Play...

[@dmitrykorunov4062]

Just in time exactly what I need it, thanks Mark!

[@Shauny_D]

What about filter tuning for these small quads first? No blackbox and before IPD? I like the FFT trick that helps a bit. The 2"-3" format is awesome with naked gopros or insta360's. Tricky to tune, no blackbox and usually a wacky center of gravity.

[@uavtech]

Without RPM, i would just set max with FFT OSD element. With RPM, i would just setup with DN range from 130 to 350 and let RPM do the rest. Sliders I would start at 1.5. Tune it and then after mostly tuned, see if you can get away with moving Gyro slider up to 2.0 or just turn off the gyro lowpasses altogether.

[@Shauny_D]

@@uavtech thanks, i had a lot of success tuning today! FFT is great i was below on a 2.5” and just moving that fixed a lot. (The frame had a lot of flex). 2” Cinewhoop is better than ever D term is crazy high (75D 58P!) but no heat and no oscillations. A bit of slow wobble at low throttle but there was 15mph of wind so 🤷🏻‍♂️ Seems whoops get much higher numbers.

[@uavtech]

@@Shauny_D 24khz PWM or 48khz PWM on ESCs?

[@Shauny_D]

@@uavtech i tried both 24 and 48 v16.8 (16.9) doesn’t boot all 4 escs). I don’t think i notice a difference... i left at 24 hoping it’ll help the bobbles.

[@juneloko]

Hello, which preset tune will u recommend I'm having issues with my 1s hdz baby turtle it has a mean wobble once you take off ?

[@ELValenin]

Is the Avant vanta available in Europe as well? Or from a place that has reasonable shipping to Europe?

[@MaRa-ly1gl]

Betaflight recommends to move "Master multiplyer" to the left - for light quads which overpowered. Any thougthts on that?

[@uavtech]

That is a way to move pids for more range. But you can see, for this quad, power to weight is about the same as a 5"

[@mr.m.4887]

@@uavtech that's interesting, so it doesn't depends on the (prop) size. Had a toothpick (3" around 100g) that gave me flyaways on defaults, needs the master at 0.7-0.8. Do you know a better way how to estimate the master position before start to tune? Seemed difficult cause on some motors reliable thrust sheets are hard to find.

[@uavtech]

It is all power to weight dependant. I just use the master slider to give more or less range if I hit the extents of the PD Gain or FF slider. I had a hand in the sliders add, but not the only voice. In my version, there was NO Master Slider, amongst some other things were diff. But it takes a village.

[@mr.m.4887]

@@uavtech OK, so when PD gain and PD balance is the main thing about tuning, wouldn't it be better to extend their range an just add an I-Term slider (if needed anymore, maybe a 3 position switch is enough for I-Term)?

[@uavtech]

Six in one hand half a dozen in the other. The master slider kind of is an i-term slider accept it moves up the other terms proportionally and if you're moving up the i-term for a reason you probably want to have higher P&D terms as well

[@ProjectMockingbird]

100% agree on the old way sliders being better.

[@uavtech]

I wrote too long novels in Slack of why it was the best ways before, but alas.

[@bladesfpv4179]

Man I thinking about picking one of these up. This video was perfect timing.

[@justhackitfpv]

Why was stick response .5 was it to decrease effect of FF ?

[@uavtech]

Yup

[@mattsnellbacher1779]

For tuning in general... is it better to use bi or tri blade? And higher or lower pitch props? I figure you would tune with whichever is the worst performer so that it behaves even better on the others

[@uavtech]

Tri-blades produce less vibes. Lower pitch are more responsive, so better for prop wash handling.

[@jenshenrikson7693]

I'm a bit surprised learning the importance of dshot idle from Albert Kim and not you. :) No more prop wash falling / sinking straight down. Worth mentioning in a tuning video? Perhaps in combination of dynamic idle.. :)

[@uavtech]

I have mentioned, I think a couple of times in tuning videos.

[@jenshenrikson7693]

@@uavtech It might be that I now reached a level of knowledge where my brain actually can process that extra info in the videos.. 😁

[@Kikerumbo]

Thanks for the video! Could you say a little bit more about the filters? You tuned the Dynamic max Freq to the Max FFT that shows in the post flight stats, but what about the rest? Stock? How do you know when to lower or rising the filtering sliders without blackbox? Thanks again.

[@uavtech]

Keep moving sliders up on stock pids till motors get hot or it grinds. Then move down a couple points. Them PID tune.

[@breakalegfpv9532]

please help, i got the pnp version with no rx instructions. i just need the pinout for the rx on the Avant Vanta Nano 2.0 ?

[@TheSnow520lee]

how do you slider tune a quad with a frame stretch X (distance between front and rear motor much longer than right to left motors)? Pitch and Roll will have different PID right?

[@uavtech]

Same, but just not splitting that atom in 4.2. In 4.3, there is a Pitch vs Roll slider.

[@RYVENANT]

@@uavtech is there any estimated release date for 4.3? I haven't heard anything yet

[@uavtech]

No idea

[@M.TTT.]

Hopefully can use this to help tune a couple builds :thumbsup: after raising p/d gain, should you check motor temps?

[@uavtech]

Yes

[@princesfpvdrones]

I am glad I am already a patreon member and I know you are backlogged. I am such a noob at tuning, it is forced upon me when trying to get my 7" quads to fly properly.

[@tylerwilliams786]

Great video. This helped alot with my 3 inch tp3 from kabob. When you were tuning did you have rpm filtering active?

[@uavtech]

Yep.

[@tylerwilliams786]

@@uavtech where were sliders around 1.4 for 3 once. Sorry to bug u just waiting on receiver and going to tine my 3 inch

[@rolisaenz]

Is it possible to set the PIDS via bluetot with this stack Diatone Mamba F722S F50PRO 3-6S 30x30 Stack/Combo w/Bluetooth (F7 FC / 50A 32Bit ESC) BTW The avant link is broken :(

[@drkastenbrot]

yes, bluetooth lets you use the speedybee app without a cable

[@brandonwoodford579]

Hey Mark, on a 6" 4s 720auw, where do you normally see the P term numbers ending up. I guess im just wondering if they will be higher than default, as long as i have can run enough D to control it? right now im noticing at default, just increasing D is getting rid of all my flying bobbles and wobbles. its just short of being a 1.0 ratio between P and D. thanks i know this is a odd question to ask here.

[@FredSena]

What causes high altitude descending wombles? BF 4.2, 5" - Where I should look at? PID or filters?

[@uavtech]

PID gains being too low.

[@pippifpv]

Your son is going to hate that outtro video, when he becomes a teenager 😉 I think he's adorable. Having kids is the best. I love my daughter

[@uavtech]

It makes me laugh ever time i see it. So i keep using it. He did that all because he wants to play Fortnite and we won't let him. He said, if i make a video that that gets a Billion Likes will you let me? I said sure.

[@lievenvv]

@@uavtech he's probably out on social media promoting your channel everywhere! 😁👌

[@brianevans4]

Really great video! The app is great for sliders since you don't get sliders in the FPV feed menu. I've seen some people fly line of sight to tune, rather than FPV. Is there an advantage or is it just personal preference? Also, I am having some real trouble with a seven inch. I get slight vibrations in smooth forward flight, and it really messes up the HD video. Any ideas what PID to change to try and remedy this?

[@uavtech]

You can tune LOS or FPV. See my 7" tuning video.

[@parrusfpv7772]

Hi great video as always..1 question about iterm relax...u set it to 10/11 for the pid tuning? Thanks!

[@uavtech]

It is pretty flexable now. Even at default of 15 should be effective. 10 to be sure it locks i-term on sharp moves.

[@parrusfpv7772]

Thanks a lot! I have to pid a beta 75 3s 😉 some suggestion? I read that d need to increase a lot

[@Maorifpv]

don't you notice inconsistency in tunning with betaflight? I tuned my 5 inch one day and it didn't have any vibration. After a few days I went flying and it vibrated a lot on cruise.

[@uavtech]

Nope. I never have. Know props and weather impact a tune. So tuning in winter may need tweaked in summer. All firmwares uses the same PID fundamentals, so.

[@rolandburrows4859]

New at tuning so excuse me. I just flashed 4.2 to 75x whoop and it seems out of whack. Any suggested PIDs to start with? Watched your whoop tuning from some months ago. Thanks for the advice.

[@uavtech]

You want P&D gains to be about 1:1 and also about 60 to 80 in gain strength for a whoop

[@h2o-fpv623]

thank u for a great video.

[@MuffelamMorgen]

It would be nice to see such a slider or similar thing for the "flightsnippets" (from cinematic to freestyle to race) ;-)

[@beechFPV]

i get jitters in smooth flight.. how do i sort that out, or will this process fix that as well?

[@uavtech]

Depends on the source, but this is a fundamental and then if still exists, you have a good foundation to troubleshoot further (if even needed). That said, if a toothpic it is probably the porps that are the issue. To see if the problem, get some HQ 65mm. Those are good.

[@beechFPV]

Ok thank you. I’ll work through this and then seek help after

[@uavtech]

Cool. Note the props thing though. My bet is it is the props if a toothpic and you have shakes.

[@beechFPV]

UAV Tech it’s a 7” quad. Don’t know if that changes anything. Brand new Tri blades. I do have duel blades I can try if I can’t tune it out

[@uavtech]

Oh, then i bet it is the tune. If HQ tri-blades, then even more so.

[@changeagent228]

I understand the memory constraints and have visited the github page where you list your hex files. Do you have any plans to release a BF4.2 performance build for F3 boards? I have an old 2017 Tinyfish FC 1s and I have been running the official 4.0.6 BF build for the last day or so after upgrading from 3.1.7 and I'm tempted to try your 4.1 performance build but wonder if going straight to 4.2 would be better given the changes.

[@uavtech]

No plans.

[@changeagent228]

@@uavtech Ok thanks. I just flashed your 4.1 performance build and dshot stopped working you don't even get the final ESC tones. Is this normal? It was working on 4.0.6 and if I change to oneshot on 4.1 I get tones but flight performance is screwy. How can I fix dshot? Thanks Edit: It's something on your build. I tried Joelucid's version and it works.

[@uavtech]

@@changeagent228 yes, you need Joe's build for RPM filtering and 4.1.

[@changeagent228]

@@uavtech Just one quick question. On 3.1.7 when I hold it level in my hand in either acro or stab mode I can pump the throttle up to 100% up and down and it tracks the stick. On 4.x the throttle raises and then it goes nuts to 100% and stops responding to the stick till I disarm. When I fly gently round the house it seems ok though. I'm worried if I take it outside and try acro it might get broken if it flies away and I have to disarm. Is this normal?

[@uavtech]

No, not normal. Have a log of it?

[@PadiwanFPV]

You have the max hz at 800 because you’re not using rpm filter right??

[@uavtech]

Correct. If RPM was on, i would set max at 350 or 300.

[@unofpv]

So you start out by setting Stick Response Gain to the lowest setting (.5) and FF Transition = 1 before you start, tune, then set them back?

[@uavtech]

Yes, to help isolate variables to hone in on PD Balance.

[@unofpv]

@@uavtech And I'm guessing Debug_Mode=FFT to get that on the OSD at disarm? Does that also require BlackBox capability on the quad?

[@leonbentolila6772]

Great video, I recently bought a mobula7 it cames with crazybeef4fr 4.0.6 would you advise me to upgrade to 4.2?

[@uavtech]

I think so. The sliders just make it easier to fiddle. But 4.0.6 to 4.2 will probably fly.about the same in Angle.mode. 4.2 has NFE mode of that is something you want to try.

[@leonbentolila6772]

Thanks for your quick repply. Would I have to keep same pid of 4.0 to 4.2? . What’s NFE ? Will it help ? I always flight in acro mode

[@MuffelamMorgen]

@@leonbentolila6772 NFE is Anglemode on roll and Acromode on Pitch.

[@robinfpv4858]

It's funny, I was literally just doing this. I got it flying well, and then as soon as I put dmin and FF in, it just wobbles and jitters on steady flight and doesn't handle propwash at all. Even with averaged 3. Going to look at the logs later.

[@QSpeedRacer]

I need to learn how to do this. Watching vids but still oblivious lol..

[@robinfpv4858]

Yeah, I think I need to start again and follow more closely a video like this. Or get it close and do changes via logs. Looking at the logs, it was a maiden so I was actually worried about what was going on with the filtering, but it turns out I was actually doing fine. I think I messed up my PD balance and the wobbles were from too low PIDs from worrying about pushing too hard without knowing what the filtering was like

[@BikeGuyFPV]

So how do you get the peak FFT stat at the end of the video? Is that just a stat option you'd set in the OSD stats?

[@uavtech]

Yup

[@Bluester1515]

Does the betaflight android app support Bluetooth connection? I can’t get it to work like the speedybee app.

[@uavtech]

Unsure yet.

[@BrandonBeans]

Could you further reduce those throbbles by supplementing (or replacing) TPA with thrust_linear? I've had good luck with that, but it's admittedly tricky to dial-in. Also, great tip on 'peak fft' for tuning the dyn notch filter! P.S. That quad looks really fun.

[@uavtech]

Yes. that would be the next thing to Implement to see if it helps

[@jordannovek2911]

Hi, I bought a betafpv that has crazy ocsillations at low and high throttle , shakes when given throttle and hot motors . I have jesc installed. I tried thr matek 411 legacy fw I tried BF 4.1 and 4,2 with all the same results.The only thing that calmed it down was turning the p & d gains 0.4. It seems like Im the only one who has experienced this. Could it be a board problem ?

[@uavtech]

The props are the issue. Get a bunch of different HQ props to try.

[@jordannovek2911]

Thank you, I was using the bi blades that it came with but I also have the HQ tri blades 4x2x3. Thx for giving me hope again. Lol!

[@uavtech]

Yeah, my iFLIGHT 2.5" was a mess till.i put on the HQ 65mm bi-blades on her. Now she is a dream!

[@scootroter4859]

@@uavtech You're right! Many of those Toothpick bi-blades bend too much on hard throttle. the HQ's are stiffer and work so much better its amazing! 👍

[@heartpilotOB]

RPM filter?

[@uavtech]

No. Esc needs updated for it. I didn't bother yet. Raw motor noise on this quad is VERY low.

[@heartpilotOB]

UAV Tech Thanks. I’m using JESC.

[@ntfadeaway]

Did you say "Throbbles"

[@uavtech]

Oh yeah buddy. It's and industry term. :-)

[@pav2k]

If you go too far with PD Gain, why wouldn't you just "fix" it with D-min?

[@uavtech]

The point is to have the highest gain strength you can before getting oscillation. The highest P-gain strength as well, in relation to D-gain without overshooting. It's just PIDs 101 for tuning. In our specific case, we have to keep in mind P and D BOTH push in the same direction to combat prop wash, so you want them to be good and strong for fast and strong reaction to wash.

[@pav2k]

@@uavtech Okay, but you can push PD gain even further if you introduce D-min, or not? D would rise for wash, and would be kept low when you get motor oscillations?

[@uavtech]

You are correct. It will raise with wash too, technically, but it is delayed since it FIRST has to detect the wash in the gyro signal. Best to have up near limit to start. Then it adds further dampening during wash or helps to control overshoot in sharp stick moves.

[@Mettabosna]

Any news from devs regarding betaflight on the google app store? As i as many have a corporate phone and are not allowed to install apk files on them.

[@uavtech]

It will probably be 6-months.

[@scootroter4859]

This video will be great for me! I just leave it on stock Betaflight and these small quads seem to fly just fine. Tweaking them will be nice! 👍😁 It looked like yours flew great with stock Betaflight... do you think this tuning really helped very much?

[@uavtech]

"A lot" is realitive. I helped for sure (prop wad and throbbles). Whether you call that "a lot" is again, relative.

[@kandredfpv]

I'm surprised you needed that much P term. I would have expected a 3S toothpick to have lots of authority...must be heavy. Would have been nice to see if thrust linearization helped.

[@uavtech]

90 gram AUW.

[@martianmcfly]

The sliders need a real rethink IMO. having a separate slider to P, I, D and F would be soooooo much easier! I really don't like the way betaflight are just assuming that the pitch, roll and yaw ratios are the same on all quads... for instance, on a stretch X the ratio is reversed.... Tell me that I'm wrong! :p

[@uavtech]

I think they perfectly reinforce how the P and D gain are a balance and how when you move up or down gains, you need to do together. Folks don't understand that very we, or at all. Maybe an added slider for Pitch vs. Roll gain, but at some point, it gets too complicated. But honestly, if a pro tune for a high level of detail, just use the gains directly. Sliders are for quick and simple.

[@martianmcfly]

@@uavtech I see your point but betflight hasn't really been going down the route of simplicity when it comes to tuning and filtering. Many of people are still very confused with it all and assuming that everyones going to be using a alien style 5 inch, the default are never going to work for people that just slap betaflight on their quads of different ratios. Having a default for whoop, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 inch etc might be a better route to go down but keeping a X default so that people can adjust for the different motor layouts. The point you made about the max fft is kinda old news for me but many people probably haven't picked that up yet... i suppose it's good ground to continue the videos like this one but i think that betaflight really need to start considering these things or people are just going to go elsewhere when there toothpicks etc dont work properly...

[@wolffpv535]

@@uavtech I'm one of those pilots that have accepted default BF pids for a couple years. But this type of video of you tuning in real time makes the process much more approachable. Gonna flash 4.2 and give it a try, thanks.

[@uavtech]

McFly, no other open source is as simple and closed source is a mess.

[@uavtech]

McFly, no other open source is as simple and closed source is a mess.

[@DronePlayground]

👍👀🇭🇷