How to Tune SUSPENSION | Part 2: Camber, Toe, and Roll Bars | Gran Turismo 7 Tuning Guide

[@Harmonic14]

If the theory section isn't for you, feel free to skip to 9:49!

[@Inktomei]

The theory section is what makes this video so much better.

[@SquadronLeadr]

💯​@@Inktomei

[@stepan.poluianov]

The main thing that I have learned from book Milken & Milken Race vehicle dynamics (strongly recommend to read!) is the fact that all-stiff or all-soft anti-roll bars do not make difference in load distribution between the left and right side of the car. In other words, uniformly stiffer suspension does not reduce the load transfer while cornering. However, what works is the relative difference in stiffness of the front and rear axles. Softer front relatively to the rear reduces the load transfer between the left and right wheels giving relatively more grip on the front, and vice versa.

[@roscoyoustupiddog9111]

That info actually helps me a lot. I kept maxing out stiffness on my anti-roll bars and saw weird handling flags.

[@krnzzang84]

Ez bro ez

[@AngryTurds]

Could've used this info 20-something years ago, instead of trial and error! Still learning physics from this game. Thanks for the vid.

[@briankerr4152]

These are complicated subjects but you manage to make it understandable whilst also entertaining. That’s not an easy balance to strike. Really good video. It’s also clear that this took a lot of work. Thank you on behalf of all those who watched it and learned something.

[@akioasakura3624]

sir im sorry for commenting that other rude comment on ur previous video. i was expecting these videos to teach stuff that they're not really "supposed to". after i first watched it i started reading serious books like RCVD and Tune to win, and now i've come back to these videos, just out of curiosity and because they're enjoyable to watch, and I can appreciate them fully. these videos aren't "perfect", but they are leagues above, and possibly the best out of other similar of videos for tuning in games. the information is explained clearly with nice pacing, and the demos are incredibly helpful. thank you for uploading these, and once again sorry for the old mean comment which i've deleted btw. have a good day

[@SquadronLeadr]

I love a human who can admit a mistake and reach out. 🫡

[@neumonik]

You don’t see this in comments often. Good on you, fellow human!

[@The.world.has.gone.crazy...]

It takes a courageous man to admit he is wrong and apollegize. 👍

[@Housesider]

I'd say toe-out on the rear does have a couple applications where it makes sense. One is drifting, for drift setups, toe-out on the rear wheels is fairly common, and a good way to make the rear-end of a car step out much more easily. Another application is to help FWD vehicles rotate through corners more easily. Whilst even on FWD cars, you'll still exhibit a reduction in straight-line stability, this is partially offset by the excellent straight-line traction FWD cars tend to have from the outset, as well as the relatively lower-level BHP ranges they tend to have, which makes this a lot easier to control. That being said, for circuit racing, I would still use rear toe-out for FWD cars as a last resort if every other option has been exhausted and improved cornering still hasn't been reached. Just my two cents! 😎👍

[@timtoney9646]

Still the best Gran Turismo 7 content ever created. Hope to see back in action and bestowing all your knowledge again.

[@Midnight7thgen]

Man GT7 needs to let these videos be on the game for information this was very well done 👍🏾 💯

[@thomasbuchmann6154]

Thank you for the video. It was worth the wait! I appreciate the theory section very much. Knowing why and where to make changes makes the whole tuning process much easier.

[@creativerayn]

Very useful and informative as always ✌️ huge thanks for putting the time in to explain and show the results! Big fan of these vids.

[@robeastv]

3:12 First time I've ever heard the reasons for camber explained, and so straightforward...

[@Banan122]

This is some high quality, easy to understand content man. Great video!

[@NeoxUnderxGOD]

Bro u and Voss are GOAT status with the uploads regarding the ACTUAL science of a component and it’s functions. Can’t wait till the next one 💪🏾

[@alexp2629]

Thanks for these guides, this is really helpful 👍🏼

[@gavancorrigan8813]

Great video. Thank you for the work. I’m sure I’ll be watching this 10 more times before I take it all in!

[@SquadronLeadr]

Along with part 1, this is still the best GT7 suspension tuning guide that I can find. Please can we have diff? :)

[@dhk86]

Thanks for the time +effort you put into these vids. Very helpful!

[@waltrussell3627]

Thanks for taking the time to explain this in detail.

[@lobotomyscam1051]

I've been waiting for this.

[@chazieo]

Thank you very much for this video. Great breakdown/lecture. I’m running the hurricane right. (Gr3). This changes my whole approach to tuning. Thank you very much. You have a new fan/subscriber! Nice to meet you!

[@heyitsdurancitooo5212]

What I did to fine tune my camber is to go on a racetrack and run a decent to great lap then go on replay and pause during a corner and look at the outside tire if it looks like the tire is rolling over then add a bit more negative camber if the tire looks like it’s a bit too negative remove some camber I found in my s2000 1.3 degrees of negative camber is perfect and the default 1.5 rear negative camber is perfect

[@doctorsubtone6739]

Same here the replay helps the most

[@johnk9168]

Loving your videos, experimenting all the time and you've more or less confirmed what I thought. 👍

[@THALASTBOSS_ttv]

GUD STUFF BUDDY!!! TY!!! I ALWAYS LOVE LEARNING AND U R A GREAT TEACHER!!!

[@jay_suby1718]

You are my professor for my GT University

[@Pola.gr.]

This video is pure gold

[@phajejekly8922]

Best tutorial hands down !

[@Blu_Cow_Media]

I love these videos. I have a fleet of Subaru’s I’m trying to dial in and this is helping so much 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻 I really needed help on the toe adjustments, even at 50:50 the sti slides it’s but out of corners at lower speeds

[@jamesbaysinger9780]

Thanks again for the new guide section

[@stryker1999]

Made this request on your carbon brakes quick test, but you should do an LSD guide. I've seen some good ones, but I'm sure yours would be pure gold for the community.

[@LOOKINVERTED]

Perhaps you're simply showing your appreciation of his intent of sharing a detailed explanation regarding the Limited Slip Diff, but just in case you did miss it.. he did say at the very end of this upload he's going to do exactly that for his next guide.

[@MiledHorizon]

In my understanding, stiffer suspension causes the weight to be transferred quicker. So when you stiffen the rear ARBs and soften the front ARBs, you gain more oversteer tendency, and that's because weight is being transferred across the rear axle more quicker than the front. The rear inside tire has weight taken off of it quicker, and at the same time, it loses grip very quickly, that's where most of the oversteer happens. The rear outside gains weight as well as grip, but the grip gained isn't 1:1 with the amount of weight gained. The rear outside is gaining grip slower than the rear inside is losing grip, and that is why oversteer happens. That's how I understand it. Coming from your previous video about dampers, I thought the way how you'd setup dampers in GT made sense but I still cannot seem to fully grasp it. In the cheat sheet you mentioned that to increase corner entry oversteer, you want to soften front bump and soften rear rebound. I'd imagine you would couple that with a stiff rear ARB? I thought that would you use a softer front bump with a stiffer rear rebound to increase corner entry oversteer. By having a soft front bump setting, you allow the weight to be placed onto the front tires more gradually, and then you'd combine that with a stiff rear rebound. By having a stiff rear rebound, you make it so that the weight leaves the rear more quicker. So one end loses grip quicker, but the other end loses grip slower, resulting in over/understeer. With corner exit you mentioned having a stiff front rebound helps negate corner exit understeer. How I thought it worked, having a stiff front rebound would make you understeer more on exit once you get back onto the throttle, as having a stiffer setting causes weight transfer to happen quicker. So by having a stiff front rebound setting, you make it so that weight leaves the front quicker, and back on to the rear. Again this is just how I understand it, the more roll resistance there is, the quicker weight transfer happens. You don't want a setting to be too soft or to stiff because either can cause understeer/oversteer. Having a front that's too soft can cause unresponsiveness and make the car feel like a boat, have no willingness to turn. Having front suspension that's too stiff causes corner entry understeer, though the initial turn-in is responsive, because the weight transfer happens quickly, the front inside loses grip too quickly and you end up understeering anyways. I've read very small parts of Carroll Smith's Tune to Win, some suspension tuning articles here and there, other videos that talk about suspension, and all of it tackles the subject with different answers leaving more questions, for myself anyways. I watched this other video that talks about dampers, and they mentioned having a stiffer rear rebound makes the vehicle more sensitive to trail-braking, having a soft front rebound makes turn-in less responsive, but mid-corner and corner exit become a lot better. WIth your video, you have different answers, nothing wrong with that, we'll all have a different understanding on this subject, but as someone who is trying to learn, it's a little frustrating. At the end of it, it just seems like trial and error tuning is going to be the best way to go.

[@Harmonic14]

I think the biggest misunderstanding for a lot of people is how rebound settings correspond to physical behavior. Stiff rebound means that you're restricting the expansion rate of the suspension, and soft rebound means the suspension will expand quicker. With this behavior in mind, we can apply it to vehicle behavior like in the cheat sheet I showed. In the entry oversteer case, a softer rebound setting allows the rear suspension to expand faster, which makes the rate of weight transfer from the front to the rear increase. It's a bit backwards if you think of it like any other suspension part, but once you visualize what it does physically, then it makes more sense. Hope that helps!

[@adarling2035]

Love it, great vid again dude

[@Two49]

Incredible video, thank you.

[@Amcoglu]

Thank you 🙏 for all your time, and efforts to make this video 💯🤌

[@TheGameboy57]

Your videos so far have immensely helped me learn tuning theory and the specifics for gt7 in specific, so thank you. But i have to ask. Are you still making videos? You mentioned in this video and the previous about more planned videos on the subject but i dont see any on your channel and its been 8 months. I hope you're still making videos cuz im loving them and cant wait for the next ones. If not its a real shame

[@danielchoi8887]

These vids are great 🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@izenhahn]

You've made great tutorial vids for GT7. My respect to that. How 'bout you putting them into playlist, also?

[@DeolTheBeast]

Great guide

[@stepan.poluianov]

Thanks! Is a video on the LSD tuning planned? I really need a good guide about that and would be happy to watch yours

[@Harmonic14]

It is in the works! Hopefully will come out quicker than this one haha

[@dukedub]

higher lsd make the car harder to turn. Lower lsd make it easier to turn. Lower values lose some speed at corner exit. Higher value spin up both tires at corner exit. MR and RR cars need higher decel lsd to keep the car from drifting when you enter corner.

[@Housesider]

@@dukedub That is only partially correct. LSD Accel settings when it comes to managing traction in a corner often varies wildly by drivetrain. For RWD cars, you don't want the Accel rating to be too high because it would actually promote oversteer because of the outside tire spinning too much. This phenomenon is actually deliberately sought after for drift setups, which often have the Accel rating set to full lock for that reason. For FWD cars for example, you actually want a decently high Accel rating because you don't want the front tires to spin during cornering, which actually gives you *more* understeer. For RWD cars, often times you'll want a relatively lower Accel setting to maintain balanced traction, which can then increase corner exit speed because the rear wheels aren't spinning too badly on throttle. Finding the right values for each car is, naturally, a tricky prospect as like most tuning aspects, it requires a lot of trial & error. You are fully correct about the Decel setting for RWD vehicles, they tend to have high Decel ratings to limit the amount of corny entry wobble/oversteer. FWD cars and many 4WD cars typically will want to use low Decel because they already have good straight-line traction which persists through corner entry. All of this is also made more difficult to nail down because the tire compound can drastically change what values you will need to gain proper traction.

[@dukedub]

@@Housesider thanks for the detailed explanation. I will give it a try

[@poguemahone5476]

Only time I've used toe out on rear was with the classic mini on the Alsace endurance mission. Logic said no but it was the only thing that got it to rotate on entry. Even 1-10 ARB and full rear brake bias failed. I feel the brake bias adjustment is too weak ATM and I'd like to be able to run different tyre or axle widths front and back. Could really dial in handling on some awkward cars then.

[@Housesider]

Yeah, it seems ever since GT Sport at least, the effects of brake balance/bias have been greatly reduced compared to prior games. Even 'extreme' setups would only showcase barely noticeable differences in a lot of cars.

[@OrangeSunshine15]

that was helpful. Thanks a lot.

[@rinkumultani6515]

thanks for the guide and tips really helpful but could be nice with street car for example cars tat have uneven weight like 50 front 40 rear or 50 rear 40 front i find in gt 7 even stock race cars are pretty easy to drive and setup but the dam street cars are so hard to tune i have bmw m5 i have tried 10-1 anti roll bars but car keep oversteering i have tried lower front ride hight and spring rate and dampers toe camber and then tried the opposite with every possible settings but same issue the oversteer wont go away so far corvette zr1 and viper gts ferrari 430 are the only rear wheel cars i been able to tune that dont oversteer like crazy

[@maxmoser412]

What happened to this channel? It was very informative and I still reference the running videos often. Still waiting for that diff video!

[@victorb.7335]

You are amazing 😊

[@Markbell73]

I've seen a lot of real world race cars running very noticeably high levels of camber at the front, sometimes to the rear. Usually in touring cars. BTCC, WTCC, and Australian Super Touring and Supercars. 3.0 degrees plus. What I can say however, is any of those cars with camber that high, ever finishing in the top 5 without lots attrition in the race, was very rare. It's usually indicative of the team struggling with their setup all race weekend long.

[@Harmonic14]

High camber is extremely common in sports car racing. A lot of the successful GT2 cars in ALMS ran -4.0 degrees or more, and sometimes the Porsche would get near -5.0 degrees. High grip/downforce cars benefit from high camber. It's definitely not something to hide a bad setup behind

[@Markbell73]

@@Harmonic14 I watched GT2 and ALMS and don't recall any successful teams running 4 and 5 degrees of camber, ftont or rear. And I certainly never saw Ferrari, McLaren or Redbull running such high camber in F1. However, I'm always open to learning new things.

[@Harmonic14]

@@Markbell73 Corvette Racing ran 3.5-4.0 degrees on the C6. I'd say they're a pretty successful team. LMH/LMDh would be running more than 3 degrees as well, but there are rules against it with the tires they have. Even some road cars have around 3 degrees in their specified track alignments from the factory. High negative camber is usually a good thing in performance driving.

[@akioasakura3624]

check out the GT6 version of Beyond the apex. The modern GT7 version doesn't go into detail as much as the other one does

[@YouMayBeSeated]

Great video! Really confused when you put .50 toe out on the front and said it should help you turn in? Doesn’t toe out on the front induce understeer? As the weight shifts to the outside wheel when you turn which is now pointing out? I’ve tested toe angle on Blue Moon Bay specifically the final turn to test cars for high speed turning and Toe In on the front has always helped the car turn in not Toe Out.

[@Harmonic14]

Toe-in on ovals is a bit of a different story. There's a lot going on there that makes it so it works sometimes - I believe there's an iRacing blog out there somewhere that discusses this. However, on a normal circuit, toe-out points the inside wheel towards the corner, and the farther your inside wheel can turn, the smaller your effective cornering radius will be. The outside tire already follows a longer path, so the effect from turning the outside tire away from the corner isn't nearly as noticeable as the improvement from pointing the inside tire farther inward.

[@timtoney9646]

I’m still rewatching part.1 over and over again.

[@wh0tLol]

👏

[@dannyharris5300]

I used your methods on 1970 challenger and it worked beautifully. I'm still struggling with a very slow power on oversteer. Almost like I'm slowly drifting the curve but my turn in is great. Im also using TC on 5 to achieve this setup. Any suggestions?

[@strawberyjustice]

you might want to try TC on 1 or 2

[@OGAwsomSauce]

What can be done when you still have body roll on a car that you’ve nearly tried everything to eliminate it. Car is the focus rs

[@Daveyboy4]

Hreat guide, tue problem is i listen to it then forget what you say 😂

[@RealLifeLuca]

Does this all still apply with all the physics changes?

[@djones1304]

A comment for the algorithm

[@Azure_Gust931]

I mean, sometimes I don't know I just play too bad or it's the car's problem, how can I distinguish it?

[@victorb.7335]

I would even pay you for setting few cars for my son. He loves the game and I’m too busy trying to help him. How can I contact you for setting fee cars ? 😊 We struggle with the 730pp on Gr3 Would like to set few cars especially the Group3

[@matthewstroud4294]

It's a shame they didn't include adjustable ackermann. Then you could combine the static toe with the ackermann.

[@dannyharris5300]

I am struggling to tune the C6 ZR1 on max power. Any suggestions?

[@MrShadowofthewind]

Are you sure the camber needs to be lower on the driven wheels ? I use to think like this because of Forza, but having more negative camber on the back than front works well.

[@Harmonic14]

Yes, just about every car works this way, both in sims and IRL. If you find the setup faster with more camber on the driven wheels, then your camber is most likely too low all around, and you need to add even more camber to the non-driven wheels.

[@LLSome1]

So that means if my car does not turn in the amount i would like to i should try to change to in to a lower number?

[@DkingE39]

Is there a calculator for suspension

[@GKPCTeach]

Any suggestions on specific track adjustments, highspeed, low speed, uphill/downhill turns?

[@Official_One]

Very good video. Do you have a solution for the instability under heavy braking for the Gr.3 cars on the Nurburgring?

[@Harmonic14]

That's not really a Nurburgring specific issue - if it's happening there, it'll happen on many other tracks. If it's only happening there, then you might need to change your approach for some corners. Try moving brake bias forward or braking more in a straight line. You can also stiffen the front suspension some to slow the rate of weight transfer

[@Twoeggsq]

My game doesn't measure any performance when changing suspension components, why? Is this a glitch I can fix? Current version

[@lipslidemyrail]

Any tips on how to get gold for final S class test?

[@Harmonic14]

There are a lot of videos out there on that, so I didn't want to beat that topic into the ground. Seems like the countersteer assist makes quick work of that mission, so try that

[@richardmenfolk5183]

camber -9999 caster 9999 that's it lmao

[@SSRT_JubyDuby8742]

Like deployed

[@bear_loves_coffee7817]

Is tyre screeching a indication of anything that can be fixed in tuning? I've noticed some cars suffer with it a lot, even at low speeds.

[@Harmonic14]

Depends on the screeching sound. If it's light, you're usually on the limit of grip, but if it's severe, you're probably understeering or sliding.

[@paulabbott2813]

But the tuning settings in GT7 are compared to reality, reversed. Toe-out on the front promotes understeer instead of oversteer and toe-in on the rear promotes oversteer instead of understeer in game. The settings in this game are messed up and Polyphony know this and are looking to correct them and naturally correct the oversteering nature of the cars in game. It's no small undertaking because it impacts pp and BoP.

[@Harmonic14]

Do you have evidence of this? From my experience, toe functions as expected.

[@paulabbott2813]

@@Harmonic14 Look up Tidgney on YT. Other than that I have evidence through playing, tuning and feeling they're effects. Take the Ferrari 365 GTB/4 it's horrible to drive, oversteers and spins out even going round a slight bend at speed when tuned up for racing. When a toe-out setting is set on the front all of it's oversteering nature and spinning out is corrected and drives like a dream. My occupation is a mechanic and l know a thing or two about tuning a vehicle in real life. GT7's tuning effects are of an absurd nature. Also, how can a higher ride height improve stability because that is what is going on in GT7, it's backwards.

[@ItsWillLee]

This was an issue in previous GT titles, I presumed it would've been corrected by this point, but allegedly not. (Too) many games developed today are more "broken" than 15 years ago... There are a few KZbinrs who test game features with very accurate & precise results & almost always lead to the game Devs making the necessary fix/adjustments. I feel GT needs a community "tester"... Polyphony are clearly listening, (I mean, they did address the credits), maybe we need the same (shaming) approach, it's really become unacceptable what Dev's release today for the price we pay, but I guess we are the BETA testers..except we paid them, lol. Side note: I've done some "testing"/comparison on a couple parts, (steering angle kit, which visually "appears" to work lol), I made overlays to place overtop of still images to visually compare, but I'm sure a more Tech knowledgeable person could go further and maybe show better results from testing.

[@oldmannisun9603]

😂😂

[@TecraTube]

moar

[@cryzz0n]

The main thing that I have learned from book Milken & Milken Race vehicle dynamics (strongly recommend to read!) is the fact that all-stiff or all-soft anti-roll bars do not make difference in load distribution between the left and right side of the car. In other words, uniformly stiffer suspension does not reduce the load transfer while cornering. However, what works is the relative difference in stiffness of the front and rear axles. Softer front relatively to the rear reduces the load transfer between the left and right wheels giving relatively more grip on the front, and vice versa.