How to turn your outdated NiCd tool batteries into powerful Li-ion ones!

[@ericklein5097]

I wouldn't suggest using laptop cells for power tool batteries. The 22F is the perfect example of your typical laptop cell. 2200mAh capacity, max continuous discharge is 2C so 4.4A. Obviously you don't want to push your cells at 100% of their rating due to voltage sag even though this isn't a continuous use application. I would definitely go with cells that have at least a 10A rating for the least powerful power tools. If the battery is going to be used in something that is a real hog, definitely stick with cells that have a 20-30A rating. Molicel's are always a great choice. Samsung 25R, 20S, 30T, 40T, LG has several high discharge cells like the HG2 and HE2/HE4, Sony has several in the VTC series, for EVE I can recommend the 20P or 25P. BAK and Lishen also make good cells. Edit: Its so refreshing to see someone has had the forethought to leave the nickel strips on the paralleled cells. They were born together so might as well leave them together. And in your case made it much easier for you to assemble the pack. But that tab you broke off the last pair...thats the tab for the balance wire. I'm also baffled by the uninsulated wire. Definitely a few major no no's in here that you're gonna get jumped on for.

[@TasteTheCode]

Hey, thanks for the great tips. Unfortunately, I do not have access to new cells because there is such a small demand for them where I live that no one is actually selling them. 😞 And yes, the original strips are a life saver. I also can't understand why people tear them when the battery couple is still good. The wire that you mention can definitely be isolated, but then again, their is nothing that it can short against to cause any issue. The last balance tab is the same as the last connector on the BMS so I soldered the wire directly in the middle so it can theoretically drain from both the cells equally. As a last note, since the cells are in parallel, the current will be shared between and this improves the current rating a bit but I agree that when possible, suitable rated cells are the way to go. Again, thanks for the tips and your time! 👍👍👍

[@keenowl1410]

Smart and informative comment. All while keeping the snarkiness to an acceptable level. Thanks.

[@VB-bk1lh]

I would think that even the least rated 18650 cells would exceed the original capacity or rating of the original NiCad, whether as a whole pack or maybe even individually. My problem is that nearly every old laptop battery I've gotten hold of was junk, maybe one or two cells that were still good out of about 20 that I cut apart. I would suppose that like myself, no one throws away a laptop or battery that's still working. My current laptop, now a year old already needed a new battery, not a single cell inside was usable. Since a new battery was only $12, I highly doubt they're using very high quality cells either. The biggest issue I see in converting an old NiCad pack is getting the thing open, nearly every one that I've got is sealed closed, short of sawing the bottom off or spending hours trying to carefully cut through the plastic without compromising the physical shape of the case there's no good way to get to the inside. I did convert a few older 7.2v and 9,6v Makita drills with stick batteries to run loose 18650 cells, I simply slide them out and recharge them in a regular charger when needed. Its worked well for a few years now but I've got a box of Dewalt 14,4 and 9.6v Snap on tools that need a solution as well.

[@TasteTheCode]

In my case, most of the batteries I have opened only have one bad pair so I can usually salvage 4 cells. Also, over never come across a sealed tool battery. They all have screws and can be easily opened.

[@christopherleubner6633]

Wire in parallel for more amps. Most tools run in bursts so not a big deal for most uses.

[@thatautogarage3644]

I did this with my Dirt Devel Dust + Vac recently. NiCd batteries sucks and I had several of last year's vape batteries laying around. After modifying the case and making an appropriate charging solution It constantly has more power and instead of only lasting the factory 7 minutes I can vacuum for around 2 weeks before recharging ( I'm assuming 2+ hours per charge now).

[@TasteTheCode]

Nice! I have never seen such a modification done with vape batteries. I'm not sure how they handle high current consumption. Do they get hot while using them?

[@christopherleubner6633]

Yup definitely worth it for those.

[@mattybrownvhsarchives9460]

I love how you don't explain a single thing you're doing. Very educational.

[@TasteTheCode]

😅 well I think that all of the actions are quite self-explanatory... Any specific questions?

[@stinkycheese804]

@@TasteTheCode Well everything you showed in the video was even more self-explanatory,

[@JasonBlack66]

making a $s BMS work for a 5S Battery. I'd like to know more about that.

[@JasonBlack66]

@@TasteTheCode "Self Explanatory"? So then what's the video for? A time Lapse? Showing off?

[@JasonBlack66]

He's right. the title of the video literally starts with "How to" You can't blame people for thinking it's a Tutorial. So it's not really a how-to, it's more of a demonstration video. The title should reflect that.

[@thomasscott5227]

hi, brilliant video i want to do exactly what you,ve done with my 18v dewalt drill but using a 5s bms could i still use my dewalt charger. thanks .

[@TasteTheCode]

It really depends on the charger. Usually they are not happy with Lithium batteries. It is best if you can use a dedicated charger and maybe adapt it to fit the connector.

[@stinkycheese804]

No, you cannot use a legacy NiCd or NiMH charger with a Li-Ion pack, whether it be a factory pack or a DIY one. Also you can't even reliably assume that you could DIY make a Li-Ion pack and use the factory Li-Ion charger as it won't communicate with it. What you could do, with the correct BMS circuit that balance charges and has the needed 4.2V/cell cutoff threshold, is gut your 18V charger, taking the PCB out except for what holds the battery contacts, and then the new charger power supply you add, can be wired to the battery contacts in the old charger to provide the mechanical mounting station to charge the new frankenstein battery. ;)

[@mrcoco3562]

Its cool to see u keep the old nickel strips on, but can we put 1 more layer of nickel strip on top of the left over nickel strips ? And oso can we use nickel strips better den u use the white wire that u solder it??

[@TasteTheCode]

Sure you can. I don't have a spot welder so I have to improvise.

[@christopherleubner6633]

Get a group that is close, use the bms sized for the correct amps. Use a charger that is designed for lithium ion. I find usbC to be awsome for this as it can autorange 3.6V 7.2V 12V and 20V ❤

[@TasteTheCode]

👍👍👍

[@stinkycheese804]

If by awesome you mean crappy because they charge so slow, then sure. Awesome. Maybe you instead meant cheap? Also it doesn't hurt to go higher in amps for the BMS, might as well get the biggest form factor (leading to higher current rating) that will fit in the battery casing if the price difference isn't much, which it usually isn't.

[@mdlanor5414]

Can I still use the original Dewalt 18 volt Nicad battery charger? Or do I have to purchase a dedicated battery charger for the Nicad to Lithium ion battery conversion?

[@TasteTheCode]

It depends on the charger but the answer is usually no. It is best to purchase a dedicated charger for lithium batteries. In my case, I'm using my bench power supply to charge it.

[@mdlanor5414]

@@TasteTheCode Thank you for the information

[@mdlanor5414]

@@TasteTheCode Sorry for another question. What is the white tape you use called?

[@TasteTheCode]

It is just an electrical tape that is 50mm wide.

[@peacemaker8750]

How to charge the new lithium pack? What with old Ni-cd charger?

[@TasteTheCode]

No, I'm using my bench power supply. Best is if you get a charger specifically designed for lithium batteries.

[@justinchisholm9563]

What charger do use afterwards as standard charger be no good

[@TasteTheCode]

Right now I'm using my bench power supply but you can purchase a dedicated charger from AliExpress that matches the nominal voltage of the battery. It doesn't need to have protection as the BMS will keep the battery safe.

[@danielkerry8219]

Wouldn’t the low voltage cutoff be different between the two battery types?

[@TasteTheCode]

It is different but the old one did not had a BMS, it was just run flat every time. The BMS I've put inside the battery will now make sure that they are never run under a certain voltage.

[@danielkerry8219]

@@TasteTheCode thank you for the reply once taking it apart and realized they were nicd batteries and was like instantly why not stack lithium in here and went straight to the trust worthy KZbin, I just skimmed the video was planning watching on repeat while doing it, thank you

[@TasteTheCode]

Yeah, should be fairly easy. Just make sure not to short them out and you should be good!

[@Teknopottu]

Great project! Why do you use so much flux?

[@TasteTheCode]

One can simply never have enough flux 😂😂😂 Jokes aside, flux makes all solder joins better.

[@Teknopottu]

@@TasteTheCode It does make joints better but quarter of the amount you are using should be enough and less to wipe away after to prevent corrosion on boards and components.

[@softerseltzer]

Exactly what I need, thank you for the guide!

[@TasteTheCode]

You are welcome!

[@NeoGhk]

What's the board used for.?? can I use 3 Li batteries to get 12 V with no board attached??

[@TasteTheCode]

That board is a Battery Management System (BMS) that protects the batteries from overcharging and cuts off the output once they reach their empty voltage level. You can get the 12V that you need without it, but you risk damaging the cells.

[@antslife1089]

I like your video but it would be nice if you could could do a speaking tutorial in normal motion for dummies like me who want to do this to their batteries

[@TasteTheCode]

Thanks, I'll keep this in mind for next one.

[@cookies-pb1eg9vg8v]

I heard that as Butter management system

[@TasteTheCode]

Hahhhaha, I must have been hungry while recording.

[@nitzanh]

40 amp BMS? Is it enough for such a high-watt low-voltage tool?

[@TasteTheCode]

Yes, seems to work fine. These drills usually use ~200W of power and at 14V that equals to ~14A. Even at 500W it only goes up to ~35A.

[@nitzanh]

@@TasteTheCode I assume it is indeed drill specific. I'm converting to lithium an old Bosch PSR 14.4. According to specs the maximum wattage is 850 and with a 4s battery, it seems I must consider a minimum voltage of 12V. = 70A

[@TasteTheCode]

Yes, true that. Although with lower voltage, the general power output will be less than at full voltage. The batteries will not output more current as they get discharged.

[@nitzanh]

@@TasteTheCode Good point

[@stinkycheese804]

@@nitzanh No, it will most likely be fine with a 40A BMS, or there are 60A BMS not too hard to find too, but most certainly it is not actually reaching the max wattage of 850W (which is probably a nonsense stall current rating anyway that would burn up the tool, but regardless....), there is no way it would be at 850W at 12V. It is probably 350W max in real world use and less than that on average at full throttle RPM (not bogged down).

[@kimoclyde]

How are you charging the new pack?

[@TasteTheCode]

At first with my bench power supply but then I bought a dedicated charger and installed a DC jack to the battery for it that connects to the battery terminals.

[@TasteTheCode]

Usually not. Depending on the charger, sometimes you might but a dedicated li-ion charger is required for these packs.

[@0lz179]

@@TasteTheCode how about those Li-ion charging boards with adjustable output? If i put and connect it inside the battery.

[@TasteTheCode]

I'm not sure to which you exactly mean bit as long as the battery voltage is matched and there is a BMS on circuit, ot should be fine.

[@0lz179]

@@TasteTheCode if i have 4S and I buy one of those Li-ion charging boards which have 16.8v output. So that will work since i have a bms?

[@xanadusanson621]

Hello friend, I don't know much English, but I will try to explain my problem: , I tried to change the battery of a 14.4 v drill to lithium, I used recycled 18650 batteries (obviously tested and with the same voltage) and formed a 4s2p pack and bought 4s bms boards at 40 amps (balancer type), and on three occasions the plates did not withstand even a vacuum test: (without effort) I thought it would be a defect in the board but I ordered from another store and now that I tried a new one and did a vacuum test performance, suddenly I heard a small explosion, I ignored it and continued drilling, until I heard a second one so I assumed that something had happened in the BMS and yes, a mosfet exploded and the truth is physically you can't see anything else but I think that more than one component must have been damaged as well. In your videos it looks so simple (and it really is, it's not very scientific) and this is happening to me, I only did a vacuum test on the other boards and apparently the transistors that are responsible for balancing the cells are heating up too much ( one or two, not all) and when I load them with the imax6 I get "connection break". Can you explain to me what I'm doing wrong or what causes could cause this to happen or at least what should I do? I thank you in advance.P.S: There are more details to explain but I didn't want to go on too long, if you need more details let me know

[@TasteTheCode]

Hey, sorry to hear that. I don't fully understand what you mean by vacuum test? If the MOSFETs are exploding, it means that you are trying to pull a lot more current through them than what they are rated for. Try going with much larger BMS, something like 100A.

[@GntlTch]

Interesting but useless without the BMS. Where is the source for the BMS?

[@TasteTheCode]

There is a BMS installed. I don't understand your comment...

[@lonesonestarcattlecompanyj408]

great video. I have you plug and play older Bosch 18v batteries. do you hire your services to revamp these batteries for people? thank you.

[@TasteTheCode]

No, not really. I mostly help out friends.

[@rsz90182]

Great video nice and simple. Well done!!!

[@TasteTheCode]

Thank you!

[@dungcucamtayquocdat2905]

Samsung 20R, 20S, 25R, 25S will better for the battery drill

[@TasteTheCode]

Yes, I agree but this is what I already had laying around. They still work great but maybe not delivering as much power as the Samsung cells.

[@endlesssG0D]

This is really dangerous.. use extra isolation beetwen cells and also + and - terminal.. with time, dust and other things, like metal shavings go inside, and you got a nice short circuit, they will explode.. otherwise.. you can build a cheap spot welder, using microwave transformator and a controller module, if you need help about this, just let me known!

[@TasteTheCode]

It's not that bad as you described. The housing is well sealed so only if you drop it inside a very conductive liquid you may have troubles but that is a different story.

[@stevesfascinations1516]

Your time is worth money. In my opinion this is not a cost effective repair. Sometimes you have to replace equipment. I enjoyed watching your repair though.

[@TasteTheCode]

Thank you! The entire conversion took about 2 hours and about $15 in materials. With a new drill and battery costing around $100, I can value my repair at $20-$30 an hour. For a lot of the world, yes, I agree that this is probably not cost effective but a huge portion of the world, Macedonia included, gets paid a lot less than that so for someone, it is worth while. Additionally, reducing waste while making something on your own is definitely worth it.

[@ericklein5097]

It's a one hour job at most....vs buying a new $50 battery (minimum)

[@CoderDad]

If the world only counts in money, then yes this is probably economically a poor decision, and I expect he knows that. But there are a breed of people out there, like me, that hate to throw things out and get genuine satisfaction from diverting something away from the wasteful lazy option of throwing an old thing on to the rubbish dump and much preferring to have a go at repairing and restoring in return for the satisfaction of doing so. Also to note he is resourceful salvaged the batteries from a completely unrelated device saving more toxic waste. The saving of money is the far lesser motivation. The man here is gaining experience and reputation. He is building a repository of work to show employers. He is inventive. He is teaching others and hopefully someday profiting from KZbin views. He's certainly a man you want to have around in many situations. ...but if you just count the money and have a "what's the point" attitude then I guess that's your thing.

[@TasteTheCode]

@CoderDad 🤩🤩🤩

[@will7its]

Yes, but I would rather repair my Japanese impact than buy a new Chinese one anyday.

[@hilary2668]

How can anyone follow that, it's crap.

[@TasteTheCode]

😱😱😱

[@stinkycheese804]

I agree and yet, if you don't already have enough background in doing similar work, to not really need the video at all, it is probably not safe to DIY even with a video. Such is the case for many DIY videos of different topics on youtube. Know what you're getting into because whatever happens is all on you.

[@dennisbrantley6925]

The proper thing would have been to get the correct BMS instead of hacking together series and parallel LI batteries in the same pack. Your just asking for it. You just negated everything the BMS is supposed to prevent. Uneven charging and discharging across the cells could lead to thermal runaway. Famous last words, "Should work fine". It will work fine until you burn the mans house down.

[@TasteTheCode]

Have you seen the video? I am using a BMS for exactly the same purpose. Also what is wrong with connecting cells in parallel and in series??? Every electric vehicle does exactly the same and every tool battery is constructed in exactly the same way!!!

[@stinkycheese804]

That is not quite accurate. There are tools with BMS that run parallel series of cells and those cells are constantly in parallel, not connected only through the BMS, so essentially just as shown in the video. It is not at all, everything a bms is supposed to prevent, namely not the two important features which is not to overcharge and not to overdischarge. If you did start to have a weak cell, then the other cell in parallel would be doing double duty and discharge that much faster than the others, so the BMS would still sense the lower voltage for cutoff protection. The key thing there is that once you notice the tool battery degrading and cutting out, time to accept that it wasn't the best idea to reuse old worn out laptop batteries and start with fresh cells for the pack rebuild. Of course it would be safest and longest lasting to just buy a new tool and Li-Ion battery but apparently some people have more time than money - it simply isn't the case that does not have access to such tools, just costs more to acquire them.