How to win mid against literally anything

Love him or hate him, EternaLEnVy is a genius. In this video, Jenkins talks about a midlane strategy that EE himself has been showcasing while playing for Cloud 9 in the BTS Pro Series.
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#Dota2 #Pro #Guide

[@badtree1893]

Im in crusader and if i try to do this i will have 5 heros running at me and other 5 reporting me

[@appsenence9244]

Hahaha

[@Macck0]

do you report yourself as well?

[@PurpleOkayTurtle]

Martin Weber we are our own worst critic after all :)

[@dimensionalblade2778]

I mean what do crusaders normally do after taking a tower. A typical crusader mind has these options A) Farm the jungle B) Maybe still farm the jungle C) Farm the ancients D) Try helping other lane but allow the enemy lane to completely take over that lane.

[@eboyoy9711]

I mean If they 5man gank u in mid in the first 5min Ur giving space to ur offlane and safelane cores to farm more compared to 1hero dead divided to 5 Not sure its beneficial but imma try this in unranked

[@ashcatchem4038]

"He ordered a pizza" during a competitive match playing mid and cutting the wave, IM DYING XD HAHAHAHA

[@Rewwgh]

EE-sama is the GOAT

[@winterwarden]

@@Rewwgh EE probably the most overrated player next to rtz.

[@R4MM57EIN]

You can say anything about EE and you are right and wrong at same time, he is the hero you hate and the villain you love. He is the fifthEE-fifthEE 😂

[@winterwarden]

@@R4MM57EIN embrace the meme 🙏

[@Thesinistereyes1]

another pizza party

[@akbarputraa7574]

Speeed will scream BROOOOOKEN until his lungs stoped working

[@kerbull708]

Akbar Putra A He had a similar video when Ceb did it with Batrider.

[@jaspreet_dhanjal]

haha so true..

[@samuelellringmann3424]

It's broken broken. not speed broken. Like actually broken.

[@meme-sama1901]

Broken broken broken.

[@jorgebalbin5170]

Speed is Broken, I love him

[@migel9372]

"god, in this moment he goes to get a pizza" Jenkins youre hilarious 😂

[@lucy1st675]

he actually did

[@syafieideris9749]

It's online tournament and he even type that he go to door. Probably delivery. It's not that weird for the delivery to be pizza

[@AGueroAFuera]

Haha I love his videos

[@sammcarthur864]

An integral part of the strat

[@say1054]

burgem bira it’s more of a pizza party reference

[@TwoSouthFarm]

EE is so smart his own skill cannot even keep up with his genius thinking

[@rt5278]

Lol

[@i1es18]

Ikr

[@mikeed90]

EE is so smart, he break his item to go to next game.

[@happymeal9879]

EE sama smart and stupid at the same time

[@tehpanasmanis5662]

Lol

[@McDnyss]

2:20 imagine you're blocking creeps in a pub and some dude comes and takes the creeps u were blocking. I would be like wtf just happened xD

[@AdiisStrange]

Last time I came this early my girlfriend left me

[@tonythongpaseuth7529]

Lollll

[@pass3087]

Holy shit that was good

[@deaddrvgster]

That's a creative way to say "first". I like it.

[@lovinescu7260]

lel

[@funvideoswithaaron1609]

Yay

[@Luxalpa]

I found this out a few weeks ago when I was watching some professional OD player pull the enemy creep wave into their min 5 neutral stack (against an SF), so I tested what you could do with this in a lobby. I thought this was just a meme strat that would only work against bots. Anyway, there is a simple counter to this strat and that's to mirror this strat on the other side of the map.

[@jex3664]

Or block the camp with sentry

[@capitanpomalca6853]

Yanabelle it’s a easy deward

[@Edgariki]

or...you can make the same thing. Just pick another hero and farm at the same way

[@Edgariki]

Or play the double mid. One pull camp and stack him and after pull this camp to the middle for your creeps, when your friend farming enemy creeps on another side.

[@alialahmad4329]

Its not counter its only dealing with as their mid lane won't be affected

[@Colopty]

The natural counter strategy seems to just be pulling the enemy wave into your own creep camps if they try to do this. You have two camps near the T1 tower to alternate between killing while getting the full wave, while the dude playing between your T2 and T3 only has one really close camp, so if anything you might outfarm him.

[@HeyMaruniko]

How to win midlane: not playing at midlane

[@MrTigracho]

Sabotage wins battles.

[@Huynguyenkimnhat]

"next i will show that this doesn't only apply to bristleback" - proceeds to show a level 7 hero with a built in escape mechanism. Hmmm

[@niajef]

i know right, wtf, if ember does this at lv 1, hes fb...if he does this at lv 6 or 7, opposing mid is also that level, and they can easily hand their wave of creep and just free farm...pointless

[@an_omega_wolf]

i was thinking the exact same thing !! it doesn't work with ember ... it does work with heros like dark seer and centaur though, but they're not as effective as bristle as a mid laner in the later stages of the game. So yeah, stick to bristle (pun intended)

[@nudelnacken]

Envy does this with ember too what do you mean. Ofc it does not work with any hero and definitely not on lvl 1 but who said that

[@sananguliyev4940]

You need to note that this is a team strat. When you're wasting the opponent's time, your teammates have to use it efficiently, farm more, bully enemy carry whose support left to chase you, take towers and not just jungle or play passive. If they do play passive or miss lasthits all the time, then you have just fed for no reason.

[@amrirasyidi]

this is what my enemies did in my last match I blocked all the 'mid jungle' they lost feelgoodman

[@sontiyo7113]

gj you denied your team all sentry wards and payed 100g to block a 200g camp which will get imidiatly dewarded because its hella obvious

[@caleburion9874]

sonti yo bold of you to assume his team actually buys sentries.

[@panakidyt4510]

@@caleburion9874 rofl

[@appsenence9244]

Just woke up from terrible nightmare 5 am. Thank god Jenkins has a video :)

[@ver93]

ok I'll try bb mid now before watching the full video and I'll tell the results after edit: I tried this in turbo and I fed. I made a few mistakes while trying to drag the wave and the enemy mid and the 2 supports kept chasing me which was fine then the offlane would come then I'd die then I'd do the same thing and the offlane would keep coming and I'd die again you get the idea. But we won tho but i fed the game might be different in rank where people are more serious but i didn't try it in ranked and I didn't bother with unranked since its too long and people's mindset would just be the same as turbo

[@cataclisma3846]

Honestly I prefer bristleback as a safe lane carry, him as offlane is bad

[@appsenence9244]

Your game should be done by now. Info?

[@masterbaiter7891]

He obtain corona after the game. What a success story.

[@ver93]

@@appsenence9244 there's the details

[@bananagod5530]

I played storm spirit and this BB did this thing. At 1st he killed me. But after getting used to it i was fine.

[@Rizpol]

360p anyone ? am i too fast ?

[@clinton9564]

Rizpol!!!! I tried your Sand King lol but the boots i bought is Arcane lol

[@AlessFD]

yes

[@poodles4058]

just too fast

[@chesterkentmaravillas5257]

Try that rizpol😂new challenge for you

[@ajihidayathullah5510]

Jiplak lagi

[@Fakeslimshady]

Jenkins insults me at the start of every video but I keep coming back :(

[@dhruvrawat5983]

Broodmother players -I know this thing very well

[@poodles4058]

I'm absolutely gonna do this, obviously seems good for heros that can tank a creep wave and have an AOE attack

[@ambiouse]

Pugna is a hard counter to any creepwave pooling strats. Decrepify makes creeps ignore and run past the astraled enemy. Did that as pos 4 pugna to the enemy axe. He tried to chase the wave, but the slow and decreep duration won't let it. If you find this in your pubs, try pos 5/4 pugna. You welcome :)

[@brianpso]

Damn a Timber doing this will absolutely destroy the game, since he is a monster every time he hits one of his timings, and those don't take long to reach. Axe will be amazing too!

[@ajandmardalizad5981]

The moment I saw CCNC is begging his opponent bristle back to stop ruining dota I knew that Jenkins would make a video about this xD

[@slarkstyle1901]

How to counter: Get the axe mid and do the same thing

[@aliefelmuhammady5705]

thats hell yeah

[@AlwynBatican]

Slarkstyle exactly and the other team has an axe...

[@sylph2689]

early game axe isn't as durable as bristle to do the same thing here

[@Jacob-lj7hx]

I literally just played a game with a mid BB on my team.. the guy said he saw it on youtube and was going to try something.. long story short he died 5 times in 4 min to a WR and the game was over (well over because he continued to think he was stronger and could 1v5 and subsequently would feed)

[@crossfire340]

Hey Jenkins, Saw you left Alchemy. Any plans on telling us where you're headed next? A few of us who have followed you a while since Leviathan Id love to hear your next journey and where your head is at. Hopefully it still includes making content.

[@jeromyperez5532]

Yeah I'm super confused. Donnie said he's doing stuff outside of Dota now. Does that mean content wise? Or is Jenkins giving up Dota to go focus on his programming job or what? IDK, but it feelsbadman.

[@NekoGall]

More simple example on low mmr, when support pulling creep on safelane but your core following you, not focused on the lane, and the worst is kill the jungle and even didn't try to deny the creep lane that pulled

[@kroolini3678]

Learn English

[@arify7344]

that last image tho

[@blankx15]

As a support I just want to share what I do in this situations: 1. Pick Enchantress. Lvl 1 impetus (hurts) by lvl 2 you out regen them with wisp and by then they have died once and used so many consumables that your mid can catch up to then. 2. Shadow Demon stack those poisons 3. Winter Wyvern use artic burn sparingly let them run out of consumables more than they want. Splinter blast them if they get neutrals. 4. Edit: I forgot about Veno jungle just come out and gale them from time to time lol. Grab mangoes. Get a stick. I would think Jakiro, Lesh and clock support can also deal with this but a bit more risky.

[@areaofeffect100]

this doesnt work anymore. second waves of creeps doesnt aggro

[@gustanoid]

That's why I stopped playing this game. Valve always ruins fun with balancing attempts

[@SimunSansa]

@@gustanoid good riddance then

[@catmoonkenobi]

having a pizza delivered while you're clowning on the enemy team is such a power move

[@ethribin4188]

How to beat it? Do the same thing. Let mid disolve into two heros pulling creep waves behind the T2 mid and not interactvwith eachother.

[@EdwardWindhowl]

What other hero can do that same strat?

[@ListenAndDie]

@@EdwardWindhowl axe comes to mind, alch, sven?

[@lethaihien12345]

@@ListenAndDie Axe is ok to cut the creeps but won't be able to farm jungle as effectively. Alche will lose lots of HP if doing the same due to low armor, and also can't clear the wave fast enough, or farm jungle. Sven is pretty much the same - His cleave is not good enough at level 1.

[@jhayvheeewargodz4660]

@@EdwardWindhowl dark seer and veno is good for that

[@EdwardWindhowl]

The highlight of the vid is BB because it an maximize his sprays. Other options wouldn't be as effective during "level 1".

[@samuelgraden9049]

What I would do to stop a bristleback would be in the start, stay and wait untill the creeps are spawning, walk with them to the tower, have one watching the woods or put a ward somewere around. If they see Bristle, send a Sven to it or Wraithking. They will stun Bristle and with him and the creeps chasing him will insolt damage to Bristle and scaring him away. If Bristle die in that way he will take time to get to lane and earn exp and the others can gain more levels than Bristle. If Bristle strikes again, send the strongest of the team at Bristle and replace mid with the second strongest. Coz its always important that Mid is safe. That's my idea how to stop Bristleback who does this method.

[@RaiComrade]

.... Increase tier 2/tier 3 tower attack range on the early of the game

[@smilinggeneral8870]

then wave dragging would no longer be possible.

[@miasangre]

No

[@manfrom20xx13]

they can just make the creeps not being able to be dragged on the first wave (like on the sidelanes) and it would be enough to nerf this

[@miasangre]

@@manfrom20xx13 Yes.

[@Abi-hq1lm]

Then EE will just let his support get lv 2 from the first wave and drag the second

[@dandelion5691]

Next patch: Creepwave exp is decreased 50% if killed outside the lane they spawn into.

[@jjvanzuydam7823]

Shhhh, Don't give Gaben any ideas

[@chrisdrover12]

I know one hard counter to this strat, alchemist. You can't do this strat against an alche

[@akshairaghav9800]

@George Gombas Alchem doesnt have to care about the enemy midlaner doing this coz he is getting free farm. He can do the same thing that the enemy midlaner does: Get two sets of creep waves even pull them to the nearby netural camps and a single acid wave is just gonna shoot his farm up. Stonks.

[@jjvanzuydam7823]

@@akshairaghav9800 not just Stonks, Phat Stonkz

[@janfranzregalado435]

Also, bounties on heroes are lessened that's why envy's thought is that it's ok to die, he just gives away a couple of gold in which 2-3 creep waves gives tons of gold whilst if he dies, he gives away just a couple of gold and that's why enemy creeps gives you more gold than kills.

[@martinmartin6300]

Jenkins: "OMG THIS IS THE MOST BROKEN!" Next video: "OMG THIS IS THE MOST BROKEN!"

[@RapFa-Hater420]

Jenkins was right the mid wave cant be fucked with anymore and Sidelanes dont aggro on first wave and they only agro before reaching tier one tower

[@crls2849]

Most people hate EE, but you have to admit it that he is the "Inventor" of Dota2 Gameplay.

[@ashleyerriah167]

prefer this content over the alchemy page - thanks for this channel option J!

[@friendlyfriend8284]

"how in Gaben's name" xD

[@olot100]

I think there are 2 strats here: Cutting behind t2 to avoid a losing mid matchup, or pulling enemy waves to enemy camps to accelerate farm. The second strat is very normal in the side lanes, so idk why it would be banned for mid lane in particular.

[@bilalalhudaybi880]

4:49 hmm, pizza partEE confirmed?

[@Joslyn_Josh]

Been doing this with Axe since Dota1, not new for me but hey there are always new players.

[@name1916]

Makes me think of axe mid, it's like bristleback but axe doesn't need to spend his mana to kill the creeps

[@user-sx4hu5tr8m]

no, u cant, cause if u play axe the creeps gonna hit you, and axe doesnt have high regen and damage block at lvl 1, you'll die cause of the creeps

[@GWT_A]

Yes you can, if you go back to few years ago where poorman shield is still there .

[@tybosch6040]

Last time i saw one of this guy’s videos it was the same thing but for offlane. “Waow i’ve never seen this before.... HE PLACED A WARD..... BUT IN THIS SPOT AND COURIERS DIE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE” do wards amaze you that much

[@pinknightmares4575]

Thanks for ruining my pubs!

[@infamousgabriel4690]

I think the way to counter it is if I just stayed in the midlane and farm the creeps from the enemy bb. and do sidefarms at the same time... its basically doing the same thing as bb is doing but Im not pulling a double wave instead I wait for the creeps to come to the river while farming side jungles. buy regens as well to be efficient. And as a midlaner my role is not be the fattest hero in the game, but to ruin the side lanes with my ganks. allowing my carry or offlane to gain exp+gold from kills from the ganks (if Successfully executed, I suppose)

[@FreePheoniix]

I would argue that the current job of a mid is most definitely not to gank, its either to pump out burst dmg for backline, Qop, storm, pug... or to become a second farmed core that has to be dealt with in fights,, , bb, sf, ta. and this strat forces you to buy more regen and reduces your ability to push the lane, as well as stealing your side of the maps farm, while also simultaneously making the side lanes easier because they have to drag a sup out of lane to try and deal. Not to mention you can't call courier unless you micro it in a large circle around, avoiding the mid lane.

[@infamousgabriel4690]

@@FreePheoniix I agree but this depends on the situation. If I were using SF as an example, I can wipe the creep wave faster with my Shadow raze or wipe a side jungle easily with my raze, either way its good. BB and SF would now have equal amount of XP and gold. As the hero levels up, and so his capability to sustain damagd from creep waves and jungle creeps. I encountered with this strat before, axe mid, the player immediately went backdoor midlane. What I did is agro the creeps near my tower and use the tower to deal damage to the creeps. (its a little bit tricky and technical) If the tower already hit one of the creeps twice, I agro it back to the river so I can go for the soul(taking a few stepz back while attacking is really good so you wont get a lot of damage from the creeps) patience is all that it is. lastly about the issue of having the courier micro to get to me is not really more of an issue, yeah it can get delayed for like a minute or 30secs, but thats okay to prevent it from being sniped. in the end we won because I took the enemy jungle if we cant gank top or bot, preventing farm for enemy cores. also its really skill subjective so Im not expecting anyone can pull it off with any hero.

[@masterbaiter7891]

Armel from TNC match is even better example I guess.

[@kerbull708]

Blood Acid Nope,Ceb of OG with Batrider.

[@captjuanco5766]

Armel is literally bristleback

[@miasangre]

@@captjuanco5766 Underrated comment.

[@aCidNevermore]

Did this once in a pub with Naga mid, pulled mid and bot creep waves (Radiant) and farmed 2 jungle camps in the span of 30s, needless to say got some pretty insane amount of cs at the end of the laning phase

[@Sasuke5090]

I saw Abed did this in a pub game around 2 to 3 months ago.

[@qi5017]

Same

[@sr.brainy3072]

I am just new to dota 2, and I am surprised to see dota has a nice community :)

[@TheDRNA]

I already see it, i try this strat. My team starts whining and feeding on purpose because im a tryhard :(

[@jameskite8021]

Uchiha Drna you know what Jenkins would say, when your mates are whining: „Why does it matter?“

[@bigsad4027]

i mean when i pick bristle in pubs the enemy just picks a timbersaw and chases me the entire game with a stick

[@Kaccel]

this is literally how i lane as tinker when counterpicked by brood

[@sammydaot7504]

That brood must be so stupid haha

[@skinity12cn70]

I think one way to deal with it, not to necessarily counter it (because you won't stop the enemy midlaner from doing this), is to pick broodmother, with her spiderlings she can outfarm the enemy midlaner if they both start doing this, obviously if the enemy midlaner picked broodmother then idk, another way could be picking Spirit breaker or bane and babysit the midlane, leaving your offlane solo but making sure you kill the enemy midlaner when he tries this strategy

[@hsniii26]

What if the opponent midlaner does the same too haha

[@Aru_im]

It'd be funny as heck

[@josera234]

i faced this as snapfire yesterday vs bristleback and it was pretty easy to counter. we had qop mid. i walked from the offlane, zoned him with shotgun, lured him into towers and chased him in woods till qop could clear his nearly wave and blink to kill him with double slow and rightclick. the bristleback died twice like that and gave qop 1 and half levels. once qop hit lvl6 trick was over for BB. you need a high movility mid hero and a non-half-brain-dead offlaner to counter this.

[@Mo_41258]

“He’s got the support who stack creep for him” thats the end of the story bruh

[@Banzai05]

Brilliant commentary and explanation. You, sir, earned yourself a sub.

[@austingames7306]

Why did the first wave aggro him? Wasnt that removed?

[@guilhermefigueiredo9952]

Only in the side lines

[@urantulga6138]

today i tried this and when i tried to cut the first wave enemy 5 player came after me and killed me everytime. and if you are thinking im making space for my other lanes, you are wrong they came too

[@TariqAli-br6cq]

Wow

[@HuseinLokhandwala]

everybody cuming together

[@BasketballJunkie1324]

6:10 hey man, I always stack when I play support I feel offended xD. I literally have 26.093 camps stacked in my profile and I don't even play support mostly

[@KaosMasterX]

The best way to prevent this is to use the third obs ward behind the 2nd bot tower. And using both supports to tackle him or use skywrath and spam q. Bris cannot do anything against sky's zoning abilities.

[@outsidethebox262]

Counter? Have you thought about doing the same thing on the enemy lane? I know the game would look like Farmville for the first 5 minutes, but hey, if u can't beat them, join them right?

[@IqbalHatami]

Outside The Box i like your idea

[@captjuanco5766]

hard to do if you didn't itemize at the start or your hero pick has no wave clear.

[@marshmallowmann20]

@@captjuanco5766 if your mid lane has no wave clear you played yourself

[@captjuanco5766]

@@marshmallowmann20 It seems someone has a small hero pool.

[@DanieleSegato]

Hero pool has nothing to do with this. How are you gonna know the enemy will do this at draft time?

[@jin0075]

EE and rtz duo is the best dota meme. One of the reasons what I keep watching dota even without playing anymore.

[@lethaihien12345]

How to counter: pick Bane. Put BB to sleep when he tries to cut the wave. The creeps will ignore and continue walking. Problem solved.

[@kirahokuten357]

then bb start chasing and Bane died from quil spray

[@lethaihien12345]

@@kirahokuten357 lol how naive you are. Bane is faster.

[@jjvanzuydam7823]

@@lethaihien12345 and BB is sleep xD

[@Rewwgh]

I am pretty sure this was a technique the OpenAI team used back when the latest craze was watching Pros struggle against them, though the Bristle would suicide to aggro the first wave to give the mid an advantage but the principle is *essentially* the same.

[@jadefang]

I see singed-level play has found his way into Dota

[@Parhaimmisto]

I mean this tactic was used in dota 1 on axe 15 years ago or something. So if anything singed took this from dota.

[@jadefang]

@@Parhaimmisto im not here to start a "league vs dota" argument zzz

[@Parhaimmisto]

@@jadefang I've played all three for thousands of hours so I aint hating nor starting anything. Just sharing some knowledge to someone that doesn't have said knowledge. So zzz to you for getting all defensive mate.

[@scarybear2835]

I had this happen to me not too long ago when an enemy Axe was owning our radiant bot lane came to mid and cut the creep waves. As a Morphling who was laned with lina, there was absolutely nothing i could do and the supports couldn't leave their lane respectively. T1 tower was destroyed at 8 min mark and we lost the game.

[@alekoh7971]

I thought envy is trash after seeing this strategy his actully so good

[@Anama_7]

He's not trash just having a bit of ..... personality problems I mean back then he used to throw when one of his teammate played bad ( like not helping him to gank or when he got ganked, u know ) or when he's about to lose the game and there're no way to win the game for him so instead of wasting your time with trying, he gave the opportunity to his enemy to win the game by throwing ( destroying his own item then do nothing on base ). Actually he's a good pro player, to me back then he was like RTZ ( kind of ) ( please excuse my grammar )

[@nostalgicwaffle7490]

Yeah he said that he's been working on being more understanding and keeping his temper in check since he got alot of heat from it

[@spammingtitanxd6687]

He was good but toxic that drag him down 🤣🤣🤣

[@rz9018]

He's good. Talented player. Very talented. But his ego and temper is terrible

[@manfrom20xx13]

He is a good pro player, but to be great you have to be consistent and Envy is not consistent a very consistent dota player. There is a reason he is being called as "FiftEE-fiftEE", sometimes he is godlike, the other times he is worse than your average Legend player

[@mmastylez]

if you think someone is going to creep cut, just pick bane and level sleep, walk over to the guy cutting, sleep him, creep de-aggro and run past him to meet, then leave him, next wave comes, repeat

[@hououinkyouma6063]

1 : play tuskar 2 : spam 3 : win everytime mid because tuskar too strong

[@BronzeHead]

Bane Sleep seems like a good counter to this, sleep the hero and the creeps will walk right on by. Of course doing this as pos 5 bane you gimp your pos 1 but probably worth it if mid gets nothing while your carry can still semi contest the safe lane

[@SeetherA7XBAM]

The bepis man himself

[@sandipkrmunda]

What do you think of Axe mid with the same laning strategy ? Axe: Base strength - 25 Str per level - 3.6 Bristleback: Base strength - 22 Str per level - 2.9 I get that BB doesn't need to physically hit the creeps. On the other hand, Axe has greater base HP regen than BB and Axe doesn't need mana like BB does. So, that gold can be spent on ring of protection, tango and salves.

[@fullriptide]

Sandip Kumar Munda Axe would definitely work, although it’s not a very traditional mid hero. Strength doesn’t really have anything do with this strategy though, it’s about waveclear

[@sandipkrmunda]

@@fullriptide I spoke of Axe because he's very tanky in the laning stage. Even if he gets ganked by support rotation, his likelihood of survival is high. Battle hunger applies a 12%slow(which is pretty big in the laning stage) and Berserker's Call grants 30 armour for a couple of seconds. Also, he can immediately switch to offlane and continue cutting the creep wave, meanwhile asking one of the other heroes to take the mid lane.

[@jeffqttt]

FiftEE/fiftEE LOL

[@yoloboi9489]

Well to counter u can pull the mid lane creeps to ur nc camp as well but u do it for the next wave after u see what the enemy is doing

[@camilocarrillo2132]

Flashback to DotA jungle bristleback radiance rush, he was very fun and very strong.

[@vincent78433]

the only obvious counter i can think of is for the other mid player to drag the creepwave back to where other mid is farming it to make the creeps aggro to each other the issue with this is that the next enemy creepwave is probably gonna hit your tower before you can get back there to drag it

[@shreyashkesarwani8273]

I was doing this with centaur offlane.. oh those helpless souls

[@bahunsuaxaviermyke3997]

What were ur starting items?

[@Vincent-vz8gl]

@@bahunsuaxaviermyke3997 ring of protection is good

[@lexoscillation6672]

Something I think you got wrong. You mentioned they picked bristle because they were so confident in this mid strategy, I think it was more of a block pick since the enemy picked kotl already and bristle can be flexed easily between multiple roles so it's good first phase.

[@happy_thinking]

@Jenkins So what stops the mid player pulling the wave to the neutral camps and farming like that? I understand that you don't always wanna trade equal farm, but if you both get the same farm and XP this strategy isn't broken in any way. And compared to the other mid player you are farming safely near your tower while he might get ganked and killed.

[@mattmatt6906]

I love doing this. If the enemy mid follows me uphill, I know I've already won the lane. The worst players panic, clicking back and forth between me and the T1 as all their precious first wave XP goes to no one.

[@antoniomata6322]

Hey Jenkins gonna miss you and Donny but I'm still here to support. Love the DotA content.

[@dudoban]

Topson was doing this in SEA like 1 or 2 months ago. If you see topson stream he will do things you don't think of. He would do this as Ember especially when he plays vs Huskar.

[@tanzili3305]

As guardian 1 I tried this and got reported lol cuz od keeps banishing me and the creep wave will stop following you 😂

[@sidewinDr]

Bane's nightmare is great at countering creep drag strats.

[@Focia2002]

The counter is very simple.."You do exactly what he does"..Play a mirror game, the mid will be freezed, none of them gets their tower pushed, everyone gets farm and everybody is happy:)

[@flymoon6953]

Thank you, for this tactics really help

[@DrMixelpixel]

And so the only way to counter this BB going behind your tower and cutting the wave is to pick alchemist and do the exact same thing behind his T2 tower. That way you get more farm.

[@tunaviyeptho6752]

Easy to counter: Pick Bane and put BB or Ember to sleep so that the creeps will go forward instead of cutting the lane.

[@FreePheoniix]

There's some problems to this though, you have to leave the safe-lane or off-lane to sleep them, and you have to do it multiple times.Then there's also the fact that your playing bane, and hes generally not good rn.

[@tunaviyeptho6752]

@@FreePheoniix This strategy will result in both BB and Bane not getting any Xp and gold.So, this will be the only counter possible fo the curent patch.

[@captjuanco5766]

@@tunaviyeptho6752 the thing is, on a normal draft by the time BB/Ember is picked, your team's pos 4 and 5 are already picked. you'd probably mess the draft if youll 3rd pick bane for sleep.

[@tunaviyeptho6752]

@@captjuanco5766 If that's the case,there is a possibility of a loss but it doesn't imply that in every match,the heroes will be picked the same way as you mentioned; making this the only way to counter and a possibility of winning.

[@adit4442]

The only think that you can do... Do the same thing that your opponent do... You also can farm in their t2 mid, so it was a trade after all... But the only problem is, what hero can farm as eficient as bristle?, darkseer? Jugg?, necrophos?

[@pegasus242]

It's very easy to counter this strategy. If enemy midlaner take your creeps between t2 and t3 and go to the jungle-just do the same thing with enemy creeps

[@emred4653]

This reminds me of proxy singed in lol. Absolutely fun to pull off and extremely annoying

[@barryallen3524]

Ez counter is to do it also on enemies bristle goes creep cutting, then enemy should go creep cutting also

[@Baalhu00]

Try lucifer the doombringer to counter the over farmed bristle back. Let him farm. You just need 1 set of tango 3 branch and quelling blade its enough regen you can overfarm that rigwarl bristle back. Rush dagger and agh sure that rigwarl will be soft as tissue paper.

[@TariqAli-br6cq]

Wow lore

[@nichidoushiro]

The counter is just pick a mid laner who can do that as well. Then both teams will just have a fat mid laner each, and depends on wat midlaner you pick you can have a stronger mid game than ur opp (eg. death prophet) and win anyways

[@kaka95962]

I beat that strategy as a skywrath support with stick, 2 healing saves mangos, and claritys. Run for bb fast u can, but dont let him get to close to u, spam your first skill on him, get closely enough to use it and full your basic stick but not too close for him spam spikes on u and u not be able to run it out. NEVER ever LET HIM SPAM MORE THAN 3 SPIKES is to dangerous to u. With this. maybe u kill him, maybe not; but if u keep doing it he will have to run it out a lot of times, and your mid will have advanced xp against him. So u can back to your lane.

[@kaka95962]

Sorry for my shit english

[@lightknightgames]

wouldn't this just be a macro manipulation to counter it? Send pos 4&5 to kill/delay, have mid farm/kill tower, keep 1&3 in the sidelanes with the goal to survive, then at the 3-5 min mark just go back to normal laning? It puts your pos 1 behind slightly since they don't have their support, but your enemy practically loses their midlaner, and that sounds like a pretty beneficial trade to me.

[@karlnord1429]

I think it is POS4's job to do this, as though you were going to trilane your safelane. You put someone who can win their lane into pos3 (Timber).