How Touhou 14 Uses Nostalgia

Touhou 14: Double Dealing Character remixes a lot of old ideas from previous Touhou games. Does reusing old material end up panning out well for Touhou 14? Watch to find out!
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Widescreen Stage 4 Background by Dai: • 東方輝針城 ～ Double Dealing...
Thumbnail Art by Dairi.
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[@Fishnberg]

I think stage 4 bosses kinda represent something the opposite the Prismriver Sisters, EASTERN ISTRUMENTS!! Instead of Western instruments like Violin, piano, and Trumpet, It shows some traditional Eastern Instruments Basically giving The Classic Era a 180 degree flip

[@Megapig9001]

Can’t believe I never thought of that

[@TheKoakuma]

Side fact that DDC was also the game that ditch "xxxx Dream" on the Staff Roll BGM title, present in all games since PoDD

[@bolson42]

Yeah that was the first thing i noticed. Touhou 14 does an excellent job of juxtaposing Western and Eastern culture which the series is so well known for, especially because it references itself and it’s established tropes.

[@f.u.m.o.5669]

I can't wait for the middle instruments.

[@flandrescarletdevil5844]

You kinda forgot the fact how Seija and Youmu both appear as a Stage 6 Midboss AND how Yuyuko and Shinmyoumaru are both Princesses...but still nice video! I didn't knew about that the only fact I knew was the Tsukumo Sisters, Their Stage Theme AND Stage 3's Theme being a REMIX of Stage 4 of IN.

[@belayabelka7326]

Not only Yuyuko, actually all final bosses of Touhou 6-8 are princesses

[@Lumix_Corrupt]

@@belayabelka7326 remilia isn’t a princess despite her theme title lol

[@belayabelka7326]

@@Lumix_Corrupt She's close enough, still counts, she's a princess in a more methaphorical way (her theme called so not for nothing)

[@bamshablam5977]

@@belayabelka7326 Zun's old title themes arent supposed to be literal

[@TeeV479]

@@belayabelka7326 no. Remilia is a lady iirc (female lord)

[@MedsieLovr]

The skies in Touhou 7 stage 4 are very calm... Except when Lily comes out, she knew it

[@katarinanokami2718]

I legit just noticed all these similarities.. wow. Also yeah.. stage 4 boss is one of the most underrated ost in whole Touhou

[@Meocontuki]

Cirno as stage 1 mid-boss (TH7) Stage 3 boss (and mid-boss) is a were-beast who can transform to their beast form on full moon (TH 8) Stage 5 and 6 are in a mansion/castle (TH6 and TH8) Stage 5 boss has some spell cards that mess with UI (TH6: stop time, TH7: slow time, TH8: moving bullets around) -Stage 6 boss is a brat (TH6)-

[@czjapka]

I will be honest, I played TH 6;7;8 and didn't even notice we are on the similar locations when playing 14 xd Now it makes more sense

[@kotohime]

A small note. idk if ZUN did it intentionally or not but Stage 1 in Touhou 14 kinda sounds like Bad Apple, where Stage 1 in Touhou 13 sounds like Alice in Wonderland.

[@pizywizy506]

Ooh, interesting video. I had the same ideas back in 2017 when I was starting to give the osts more thought. Here are some extra notes on 14's ost for those that may be interested: Illusionary Joururi isn't just nostalgic for its use of the Theme of Eastern Story, it's also a play on Touhou 5's Mystic Dream! This might be part of a larger interplay between Stage 3 and Stage 4 where they are actually inverses of each other. That is that Stage 3's theme sets you up with a Touhou 8 callback to fake you out with Kagerou. Stage 4's theme utilizes what I would've called at the time very "non-standard" forms of composition to further distance us from what we're used to, to then bring us back to Illusionary Joururi which is Touhou at its source. This is part of a larger meta-narrative within the ost about ZUN introducing new instruments and writing techniques to his style, and of course the beginning of post-Religion Arc Touhou. Interestingly, we also see part of Unlocated Hell/Yuuma's Theme in Thunderclouds of Magical Power, which may itself come from Ultimate Truth in (of course) Touhou 7.

[@BinglesP]

Stage 5 also uses Theme of Eastern Story! It's hard to tell at first though, because it's the same melody in reverse frequencies(where pitch is flipped instead of the order; essentially, a musical notation's vertical flip, like Seija's ability). That blew my mind when I figured that out, I honestly think it's awesomely clever.

[@finalsurvivor1]

Something I find really fascinating about DDC's nostalgia is with the game's timing. MoF was a soft reboot of the series, as outside of Reimu and Marisa, everything prior was removed from the series for a bit outside of Aya's boss fight and the partner system in SA. This was also when the worldbuilding and storytelling of the series really started getting strong - most notably, MoF famously started the whole religious war/Moriya Shrine conspiracy arc that lasted through TD and HM. TD is notably where a turning point in this soft reboot happened. ZUN stated that he made the game as UFO meets PCB. Most blatantly for the PCB side, Youmu and Yuyuko both return to the series for the first time since MoF (not counting Hisoutensoku) and TD starts where PCB ended. DDC's nostalgia finished what TD started and effectively ended the soft reboot, but not by returning to the style of the original Windows trilogy. Rather, it combines them, integrating all this stuff we knew from the old games and putting them within this new, more solidified framework of Gensokyo ZUN had been working on since MoF. There's just something about the Misty Lake, Human Village, and Bamboo Forest of the Lost that feels more concrete and natural in DDC than they did originally, and I think it's because, over the soft reboot, Gensokyo started feeling much more like a real place. Even when looking back at the older games now, those stages feel a lot more like just generic video game stages, whereas in DDC they feel like part of a larger world. Because of all this, I personally see DDC as the start of modern Touhou - it marked the point where ZUN felt he no longer had to search for the series's identity because he finally nailed down what he was after and integrated the whole Windows era into it.

[@alwayssupporttouhouproject6726]

I noticed a bunch of the individual things mentioned here, but never put them together to form a theme! This really makes a difference in the storytelling. Well done!

[@PunYT]

5:25 Are we really going to sleep on how Sakuya's shot in 14 is fundamentally identical to her A configuration from 7? As in, the best fucking shot type in the series?

[@livestreamer12340]

I think reimu's Shot type from HSiFS has some competition but that just may be me

[@tubebrocoli]

You forgot how stages 5 and 6 have a similar mood to being inside Eientei in 8. Seiga is even arguably like Reisen in her "cheating" manipulation of danmaku, except this time the manipulator is the actual culprit leader and is doing it for evil reasons rather than Reisen just protecting her moon princess.

[@kelikl]

I agree, for example Kagerou represents what you felt toward touhou bosses before getting good at the game where you though every single pattern is rng except this time you are totally right.

[@GodOfWheatRiceBall]

I remember ZUN describe this game as "Neither new nor retro, 2000s neo-retro bullet hell" "Pretty and Dualistic shooting fantasy!"

[@embreadiment]

THATS WHAT IM FUCKIN SAYING

[@segasonic4352]

never noticed this before! interesting video

[@cardanawandra8402]

zun watches this video be like : "i don't know, it just works" do touhou 18 please

[@art.em993]

Как же хорошо что есть такие каналы как твой ❤️

[@tommers2189]

it's KAGEROU 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@veryredfumoze]

Bamboo forest of the full moon Retribution for eternal night ~ imperishable night but better That's coming from a touhou 8 fan

[@IkaraPopsicle]

Crino

[@dionysos7735]

Wow! Never thought about it before, but it makes sense, I even whole heartedly agree with this video, except one thing. The Tsukumo sisters aren't the biggest misstep of this game, but Seija. I like her concept, desing and theme, but her fight is so god damn boring. On my opiniom she is the worst stage 5 boss in the entire series.

[@Megapig9001]

Right, but Seija herself isn't tied to Touhou 14's "nostalgia" portion. Instead, she's tied to Touhou 14's new ideas. The Tsukumo statement is more in relation to how well ZUN does remixing old ideas.

[@Robert-vk7je]

DDC is my least favourite main line touhou game. Maybe this is the reason.

[@FCTouhou]

I honestly really like it. Ost is good. The characters unique bullets. Sakibanki literally attacks you with her head! Kagerou going all places, Seija flipping the screen, Shinmyoumaru changing shapes of things. Raiko's drums. It's a solid game

[@Suwawako]

The game is zzzzzzzzzzzzz until Seija and Shinmyoumaru

[@TarosTheVoid]

L