How we Evolve & Integrate (including the "Dark Night") ~ Shinzen Young

[@immanuelhennicker9300]

This is so interesting. I got hit by DP/DR-Disorder when I was abaout 16 years old. Back then, it was a horror trip. A few years later, I started to meditate and do Shadowwork, found an awakened tacher to work with, and about half a year ago I got StreamEntry. So this happened after 2 years of practice and I always wondered why I was so fast. With Shadowwork either. And I more and more believe, that it is because I already had an integration of emptiness and no self when DP/DR hit me. Now, sitting here in 360 degree panoramic view, being in a transition phase of whats me and what's not, I dont have the bad feeling of the Disorder anymore. It just doesn't affect me, because it became an integrated and enjoyable insight into true nature of being.

[@Mandance]

Dark night is so much more than dp/dr. You will most likely also be in a deep deep depression, anxiety, despair, physical symptoms, ailments, insomnia where nothing works or helps it. You come face to face with traumas from the past, and spiritual things all at the same time. It’s a completely shift to a higher level of consciousness if someone can survive it, and integrate it as mentioned.

[@MrCanigou]

57:30 "A person who doesn't need to save the world" reminds me of a poem, "Clearing" by Martha Postlewaite Do not try to save the whole world or do anything grandiose. Instead, create a clearing in the dense forest of your life and wait there patiently, until the song that is your life falls into your own cupped hands and you recognize and greet it. Only then will you know how to give yourself to this world so worth of rescue.

[@kaivenfenton]

Beautiful and very truthful poem....loved it

[@Theembodimentchannel]

The man’s a genius. Top tier teaching

[@ivananelovic3425]

As someone who is going through a lot of things mentioned and being confused about a lot of stuff, this was more than helpful. Thank you Shinzen for all your work and love you are sharing with us

[@swimmingbird238]

Thankyou enlightened grandpa

[@squamish4244]

I fell into DP/DR after a traumatic psychedelic trip. Then anti-anxiety drug addiction and kundalini syndrome followed. My life fell apart. Sixteen years later, I have no career, no family of my own, no partner, and am still stuck in the Dark Night. It has been a total disaster of unbelievable complexity and difficulty.

[@Mandance]

In it it as well man, the only way out is through. Try not to fear the symptoms, the fear keeps them alive longer.

[@squamish4244]

@@Mandance How long has it been for you? What happened to trigger it? What has been the cost? I do feel awfully lonely with all this bizarre stuff happening and just plain lonely. The existential terror is extraordinary. I need to take benzos to manage the symptoms. Ketamine therapy has really helped in the last eight months or so to blow off the kundalini syndrome and release huge sheets of terror and trauma. I have heard very good things about 5 meo DMT as well for lifting existential anguish and there are practitioners in my area, so once I get myself off benzos (no easy task) I might do that next.

[@caseypham7975]

get some sunlight and grounding

[@RichardWilliamDamien]

Do you have a mentor or teacher following you?

[@HeyDevilBetween]

@@squamish4244 look into grounding exercises e.g Peter Ralston’s Zen Body Being. Good stuff that puts you in your body. Good luck! ❤

[@LuigiTrapanese]

Listen the whole hour. Is worth it.

[@deepDudu]

Wow, I have just started paying attention to this guy. Shinzen is incredible,.

[@DeepStateAgent44]

Shinzen, thank you so much, your expertise is just so respectable. Really, I am just so grateful that mindfulness is available to us all.

[@ganazby]

I’ve become so jaded by KZbin teachers, but I like this cat. He’s got it down. The message is clear and true, without any nonsense. His explanation of our biological/social conditioning is accurate, in my experience. Thanks.

[@brianlund7862]

Lotta bullshit on KZbin. No question. He's the real deal though.

[@squamish4244]

There are many people on here who are genuinely awake and they provide accurate descriptions of what it's like to be awake. Where so many of them fall down is in what you actually DO to get there. "Just let go, let things be, blah blah blah". Well, that's alright for them, but what about the rest of us without their ridiculously good karma or fortune? So they have lots of students who don't get anywhere. Whereas Shinzen is like, "Do x, do y, do z, and if that doesn't work, try a, b, c, and if that doesn't work, try x and z but leave out y", etc. Hardcore pragmatism, which is totally my jam (and should be everyone else's, ideally :)

[@TheTarutau]

53m i call it open mindedness working together with don't know mind. That child like perspective that we tend to lose as our worldview forms causing one to lose both their flexibility and their curiosity.

[@ToniAnnBarandon]

Yes! A primordial black hole, I've said those exact words. But there's no dissatisfaction. It was a wonderful relief to discover.

[@cbesc]

So many confirmations from Shinzen. One of my faves.

[@kenitcimm3467]

This man has an incredible intellect and insight. Thankyou!!

[@si12364]

Thank you so much, your explanation confirm my experience in almost all the details you mention.. The most strange feeling it has been the disapparence of passion, and still is something that create question inside my self. I noticed that instead of "entusiasm" or intense desire, came an openess and a curiosity that receive the moment as the moment is..and some time (my job in the field of music) this openess come as "beauty" but don't last.Anyway I'm still working on this.Thank you so much!

[@jmerdsoy]

I'm in the same profession and am experiencing the same things

[@zestfullgamer]

Not in music. Just fell into this, captures much of my experience at this moment. Glad to find I'm not the only one, and that people are making this new (old). "form" work

[@caseyl.1684]

Wow thank you SO much for this! I struggle from my experience. He has all the answers I was looking for.

[@Peace_of_Mind]

Great talk. If you enjoyed it I would also recommend Roger Castillo. I find these teachings nicely complement each other.

[@giniaa2707]

Very helpful clarification on states of meditation.

[@Tasmanaut]

unfortunately, that spectrum appears to be related to the autism spectrum. After awakening I discovered that I am autistic, and I have bouts of extreme existential terror. It comes and goes, but when it arises, it appears all encompassing and never ending. There is still the recognition of that being only an appearance, though it it is very overwhelming, it doesn't really diminish the fear. Fortunately it never lasts. Currently, listening to this, it's kicking in again. I will continue with the video as your insight is unsurpassed from what I have seen so far of your content.

[@Tasmanaut]

It is like being blasted into space in a space ship. I think the issue is that Buddhist practice or other practices of cultivation lead to competent, well constructed spaceship, with all the life support systems, tools and supplies required to navigate the cosmos. For those that are unprepared, it is like being blasted off in a Boeing Starliner, the craft malfunctions, the systems aren't fully operational, you feel stranded with no way home etc. I have a fear of swimming, and its the same thing. As though being thrown into a deep ocean and you must learn to swim. The good news is that it IS possible. The bad news is that it's still frightening at times.

[@meatslammcdoodle7402]

Brilliantly articulate!

[@mattrkelly]

when is the shinzen movie coming out?

[@samo917]

Movie Title: Zen of the Undead: Shinzen Young vs. The Zombies 1) Introduction: Shinzen Young, a peaceful meditation master, is guiding a retreat in a remote mountain monastery. Far from civilization, the group focuses on mindfulness, deep breathing, and awareness of the present moment. However, during a full moon night, something strange happens: a strange fog rolls in, and with it, hordes of zombies emerge from the forest. Plot Points: 2) The Awakening: As zombies attack, the meditators panic. Shinzen, however, remains calm, using his skills of focus and awareness to detect the undead before they fully emerge. His understanding of "suffering" (dukkha) becomes critical as he leads the group to safety, explaining that they must remain in the present moment to avoid panic and fear. 3) First Encounter: The zombies are drawn to the monastery, driven by an inexplicable hunger for "life energy." Shinzen faces the first group of zombies with nothing but his meditation bell and a wooden staff. He uses his agility and mindful presence to dodge their slow, clumsy attacks. His mantra, "See the impermanence," echoes as he fights, reminding him of the temporary nature of all phenomena, including zombies. Mindful Combat: As the situation escalates, Shinzen teaches the group to fight back. They combine mindfulness techniques with combat strategies, staying grounded and calm in the face of danger. By focusing on the breath and body awareness, they move swiftly and efficiently, dodging zombie bites and delivering decisive strikes. Shinzen emphasizes the importance of not losing oneself in the fight, reminding everyone to stay compassionate-even toward the undead. 4) The Source of the Infection: Shinzen discovers that the zombies are not driven by mere hunger; they are souls trapped in a state of suffering, unable to let go of their attachment to life. Through meditation, Shinzen realizes that a powerful necromancer is behind the zombie plague, using dark magic to exploit human fears of death and suffering. The Final Battle: Shinzen and the remaining meditators journey to the heart of the necromancer’s lair, located deep within the forest. There, they must face a massive horde of zombies, each one more formidable than the last. Using everything they’ve learned, from mindfulness to teamwork, they battle their way through. Shinzen, however, knows that fighting alone won’t stop the necromancer. In a climactic final battle, Shinzen confronts the necromancer. Instead of fighting physically, Shinzen uses his deep understanding of compassion and the nature of suffering to engage the necromancer in a battle of the mind. By guiding him into an awakening of consciousness, Shinzen helps the necromancer release his grip on the zombies and accept the natural flow of life and death. 5)Resolution: With the necromancer’s spell broken, the zombies return to their natural state, and peace is restored to the land. The meditators, forever changed by their experience, realize that they have not only learned to defend themselves but also gained deeper insight into the nature of fear, impermanence, and compassion. Shinzen reflects on the event, noting how even in chaos, one can find a deep stillness and clarity. The retreat continues, this time with a new understanding of how to face the most unlikely of challenges: mindfully. (Credit to chatgpt hehe)

[@mattrkelly]

@@samo917 lol

[@brianlund7862]

Love you Buddy

[@grapevinegoddess]

Contemplative-based psycho-spiritual growth.. I like it. I would add the word "introspective" in there somewhere, too.

[@TeraMangala]

Rationalizations enter the mind - perhaps the thought: “Won’t God be just as pleased with me if I live a good, moral life? Must I give up everything human - everything normal, and be left in the end with, perhaps, nothing?”

[@brianlund7862]

Depends

[@evv3245]

No puedo leer. Pena que no esté traducido al español este iluminado video. Gracias Gracias

[@joolslorien3936]

30:23 Wouldn’t the difference come from the cultivation of Samatha? Joy, tranquility and equanimity weren’t part of the bad trip of DP/DR in my experience.

[@2DReanimation]

16:30: "suffering is physical and/or emotional pain not experienced fully.". Sure, if you experience it fully, that will nullify the reaction of suffering. But you can also have a quite common reaction of knowing that the pain is temporary, thus minimizing suffering. Or just distancing yourself stoically. Or less skillfully: suppressing. But to experience it more fully is certainly the most skillful approach. But to define something by what nullifies it sounds quite strange ^^ I'd define it as "your, often subconscious, negative reactions to physical / emotional pain/discomfort". But in the end, it doesn't really matter, as you should be cultivating the fully-experiencing approach anyways :)

[@JustBlameEntropy]

Thank you.

Thanks you for this sharing ! ;)

[@McLKeith]

I am glad I have Shinzen's book "The Science of Enlightenment" because it is very hard to listen to him talk.

[@agnesbroderick799]

question that is..

[@squamish4244]

Agreed. One of the few weaknesses of Shinzen's style is that he is prone to numerous unexpected pauses and wandering off into semi-related topics.

[@aveljano]

Hello, First thank you infinetively for this and all your other marvelous lectures and insight, Sensei :). Second, as I'm a novice, I got a novice question from my mornimg sitting : When we speak, think, inner chat, etc we do it from our prefrontal cortex (as I recall). If we can shift our conciosness to another part of our brain with function other than speach, are we then that much closer to void, to non self? At least to "void of words" :)

[@gulumayroz]

Thank you so much. Rare and fascinating description...but regarding intervention, for helping integration....wouldn't it be better to just continue the momentum of the Surrender to this evolution process, which seems to have started, with trust, rather than trying to "fix" it from "this" side (buying again to dualism of the "self self")?? (i am more referring to the flat line, in this question)🧡 Shinzen, you are a scientific poet.💕

[@yoyohop]

Shinzen. Where he at?

[@ovidiudrobota2182]

Suffering is physical or emotional pain not experienced fully.

[@stinelundetoft3512]

I have landed in the pit of the void from wrong meditation practice and I don't know how to cope

[@AndreasDelleske]

As soon as you know what is wrong it is not you (anymore). Maybe stay in the „don’t know“ for a while and perceive what comes up, let it pass. Bottom line, nothing is really wrong. We walk in steps. I see emptiness as a really peaceful place. „Can you silence my mind?“ „Bring me your mind then“ „I can’t find any“ „Then I must have silenced it already“.

[@mats.youtube3013]

I have been there, but I recently "got out of it" after recovery and a lot of meditation. How are you coping now?

[@stinelundetoft3512]

@@mats.youtube3013 I am still in the pit of the void. I can,'t feel anything. Two years ago I was well and could feel everything. I see no option but suicide.

[@squamish4244]

@@stinelundetoft3512 I know energy healers who can help you, but you have to be open-minded.

[@julesdrums6167]

What does he mean by emptiness or the void?

[@virgulaah]

contemplation

[@AndreasDelleske]

What you experience when everything gets dropped that is not you. Or the space inside which everything occurs, which might be the same.

[@kaivenfenton]

You ask what is the difference between the Buddhists good trip and ordinary people’s bad trip, who have had the experience of emptiness? May I present my answer, in case you read this. It all depends on the perception of a person whether it is a good or a bad trip. The majority of Buddhists say it is a good trip because they knew about it ahead of time, they understood it to be freedom and a good thing and they have been working towards it for years probably. The rest of the people who experience this emptiness have not had any knowledge of such a thing happening. People say it is a bad trip is because it is so RARE that it is next to impossible to find anyone who understands them. Nobody to talk with and share experiences with. It is terrible in that sense and that is where I am now. I think I will look for those websites you mentioned about people with this “disorder.” I agree it is an normal natural experience and can happen to anyone at anytime. It happened to me in 1980. I didn’t know a thing about Spirituality or meditation then. Thirty years later I understood what had happened to me. Since I was psychologically oriented I automatically began to reflect, contemplate and became very introspective of my life and continually worked towards undoing all my “conditioning” while at the same time being drawn to what Spiritual people were saying in books and eventually on youtube

[@Tasmanaut]

Hi :) I wonder, did the sense of terror pass for you? It's been 15 years for me, on and off, and again recently everything that was forgotten and obscured has been cleared away, but the sensation of terror still comes and goes.

[@leslieboross3551]

No self, no problem. It must be understood that there is no thinker, experiencer or self, and that there is nobody on Earth or in any universe.

[@Tasmanaut]

there is the appearance of self, though, and it is not ever eradicated, it can only be seen for what it is. Believing that it the sensation of self can be and should be eradicated is the entire problem.

[@user-gd7mr5bx1l]

I heard this guy is a badass. I'm disappointed.

[@mselfalt163]

He thinks carefully about the words to use. I think you can't see the brilliance in the content yet.

[@mihugong3153]

Well, I invite you to explain in some detail what you expected and why you are disappointed.

[@AndreasDelleske]

What could you possibly learn from a „badass“ but the perception that you feel somewhat inferior? BTW he has different topics for different contexts or questions. And there are other teachers. There is no shame in picking what fits your path.

[@squamish4244]

He's not for everyone. And he can give cagey 'Zen' answers to questions that make you roll your eyes. But most of the time he's intensely pragmatic.