How We Got the New Testament: Evidence for the Bible pt12

[@jamalkhan3708]

Greetings from Pakistan, Ex Muslim proud Christian here. I’m so happy I found your channel and you owned my subscription. your teaching helps me to grow in my faith as a new Christian. Jesus is Lord ✝️

[@albusai]

Jamal K Jesus is Lord , be careful brother

[@BibliayFe]

GOD bless you

[@travelswithted673]

Amazing :)

[@joseg.solano1891]

God bless brother. Remember that God looks at the proud from far away

[@jacobortega2786]

@@travelswithted673 that doesn’t refer to be proud to be Christian.

[@ruthvansandt9713]

Oh Mike... I wish so much that I had this in 8th grade. I distinctly remember learning from my Bible curriculum about the council of Nicea and the whole idea that men sitting in a room decided which books were Holy Spirit authored. This is what my Bible course taught, and not even Bible school years later told me a different story. It did damage to my young faith. I finally just had to Trust and have faith that God had worked, even in the council, to determine His accurate word, but in my heart I have always thought there must be more to the story. That was 17 years ago and I have never heard a single preacher give the message you gave in these two videos (OT/NT) alone. Evidence for the Bible within the Bible that the authors knew and affirmed they were writing the Bible! God protected my faith, but if I had had this message 17 years ago, there would never have been that particular battle to fight!! THANK YOU for this. I hope this becomes the standard taught to Christian youth learning why the Bible is the Bible, rather than the misrepresentation of a council debate session. Amen.

[@aclk1520]

Ruth Van Sandt Jesus spoke to His apostles saying: John 14:16 “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever” He was only talking to His apostles, knowing His apostles will not live on earth forever.. but through apostolic succession through the Church- yes. He was not talking to you or me. Ephesians 3:21 Ephesians 3:21 “to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.” There’s only one historic church and its Jesus’ Church-the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

[@aclk1520]

Creeping Death cultish people do not reason nor like to listen to reason. They usually shun others so they can keep in their cult. This is the way of the devil... it’s similar to communism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, Marxism, etc.. the Catholic Church does not do anything of this sort... nor do I .. I love reasoning! God is Reason Himself!

[@lovesandservesjesuschrist6752]

@@aclk1520 Actually, in my experience, those who follow various forms of evil, from outright, to subtle and beautiful seeming, they absolutely LOVE reasoning and using their own forms of logic to justify their beliefs. Not one of them goes on faith, whereby they do not understand something and simply believe because God is good. No, they are almost all trained to argue and to do it well. And I am once again talking about those who either do not believe in anything at all, or those who follow any one of the Satan derived religions on this world. Logic and intelligence seem to be one of the most important aspects of being a follower of evil, as it involves being cunning, lying masterfully, believing your own deceptions, and hybridizing truth and error into a greater worldview, which in that person's mind appears as the supreme truth. There are of course polar opposites of that, where hypnosis rules and few think for themselves. I have seen that kind of evil as well, in various groups of people. The devil is most certainly not afraid of reasoning, because he can out-reason any human, if that human has no Christ, no truth of the Word, nor God's Spirit.

[@IBenZik]

@@lovesandservesjesuschrist6752 I never thought of it that way but you are so right!

[@inmyownbiasedopinion4482]

@@aclk1520 More of an occult

[@heatherroberson5170]

I’ve been a follower of Jesus for over 30 years, attended bible college and earned a biblical ministry certificate and I’m learning more from this series than I did from two years of seminary. I’m just shocked at how little I actually know about how the Bible came together and how much stronger my faith is becoming through your teaching. Thank you so much for providing this valuable resource, Mike! ❤

[@michaelevans1690]

Throughout my conversion, I'm constantly discovering more and more scientific/materialistic/atheistic "truths" that I have been taking on faith my whole life. It's so true. If I heard an argument against the Bible, I would just believe it because it was "obviously" true. There was never any motivation to really interrogate my beliefs (which I didn't even recognize as being "beliefs"). I'm so grateful to Mike for this channel, which has been such a help in deconstructing my old beliefs and bringing me closer to Christ. Thank you from a new Christian!

[@SusanMorales]

"the Scripture ends and we're not waiting for more Scripture, we're waiting for Jesus"

[@samanthajeffers9339]

Thanks mike! I’ve been wondering about some of the books that Catholics have, so I’ve been curiously.

[@lovesandservesjesuschrist6752]

Thanks for emphasizing that Susan, 6 months ago, that's exactly the line I need in my conversation with someone TODAY.

[@TimsAvatar]

27:20 is the reference. I stopped watching and started watching as soon as I read this comment.. it was weird lol

[@carolgoering6585]

I have listened to Chuck Missler for years. I listened to every video I could find over and over. I prayed God would send me another (deep) Bible teacher. He sent me you. So many good answers to the Catholics. Thank you!!

[@josephpaulsfan3081]

Jesus died for our sins Jesus took the punishment of our sins by dying and by suffering on the Cross Jesus paid the price of our sins

[@eddenz1356]

Why did god set it up that way? Never made much sense to me

[@eddenz1356]

Check out Richard carrier if you want another side to this.

[@shannagrubbs8548]

I am so proud of you!!😳 I only say because I am a new follower to your videos!! ...ive been walking with the Lord a long time!! 35+years and never regretted a single second!!!After making these videos 5 years ago!! They blessings still flow!😊

[@PGBigRed]

I finished a lot of the video, and this morning after being saddened by some "deconstruction" content I came across, I opened this video back up and immediately there's 2 Peter 3:16.

[@bethwert259]

I am so happy you have launched onto the internet. I am going to share you and your teachings with my son who is, unforutneatly not in "good spiritual shape". I just learned last week about the prophetsies from the Old Test to the New Test (& I have been attending a women's bible study group for over 2 yrs & I just NOW learned THIS!!) It must have to do with that saying of God has his own timing for you. Anyway, I am so glad I found you. My son will learn so much.

[@jimwinchester339]

Gold star for Mike Winger here. A truly great faith-building presentation.

[@kristyleavitt8007]

Mike, thank you for being thorough! I’ve been recently wondering why I should trust the authority of Paul’s letters. This is super helpful.

[@jennveilleaux3280]

This is such a great series!! Thanks, Mike!

[@jayakare]

Agreed, Pastor Mike is right about watching more than once to absorb everything 😊

[@AnHebrewChild]

Mike - I love what you said about uncritical skepticism at 7:17 !

[@jimbeaudoin2037]

Such a good speaker with calm mannerisms. I have enjoyed the time he must spend on research. Very informative. He keeps stating that we can have the information to win the discussion or show authenticity. Be careful not to argue with other Christians. We argue about too much that is unimportant. Yes the bible is very important. I got saved on that heathenish NIV. Thank you Mike for your teaching.

[@tklick19]

Love this playlist!

[@kevinsolveson5480]

At about the 12:43 mark I paused the video, just to say, "Thank you, Lord, for Mike Winger." What a humble, articulate ambassador for the faith. :-)

[@timmcvicker5775]

Thank you. This was wonderful.

[@cliffmorganekitson3971]

If like me you would like to have his notes, here are the notes I took from this teaching. Like this comment for people to see it at the top. The Bible verses are in the NIV. How We Got the New Testament: Evidence for the Bible part12 By Mike Winger If a canon exists, i.e a list of writings that God inspired, then it exists whether man recognizes it or not. If there is no authoritative teaching from God, then it doesn’t matter when the list was formed because there is no list, no canon. The question is not do we have a canon, but do we have it right? (Comments about the fulfillment of prophecies in the OT and in the NT) There is about 400 years between the O and the N Testament, so we know what was prophesied about Christ was really written well before He came. Is our NT what it should be? (The answer will be yes) Remember that this list of books does not come from a secret council of bearded gentlemen in a smoky room. Reminder that Dan Brown is not a scholar in any way shape or form. Often people assume that the council that decided on the Bible was the council of Nicea. These ideas are popular but provably false and ridiculous. The DaVinci Code was written by Dan Brown, a fiction writer who does not even know the difference between the 3rd century and the 300s. Yet he is telling us what happened in those centuries. Critics tend to be uncritical of their own criticisms. If anything is against the Bible, they believe it immediately, they take it on faith, but if it’s for the Bible, skepticism, prove it, prove it, prove even the commas. It’s blind faith on anti-faith. There is a myth on neutrality, but there is no such thing as an unbiased sources. When they say unbiased, they mean unbelieving. So for them neutral scholars are scholars who do not believe God is what He says He is in the Bible. (9:00) There was no central authority that gave us our NT. The Christian church didn’t have councils for the first 300 years because they were under great persecution. Oftentimes deeply intense persecution. They couldn’t get together and have giant public councils because, if they got together to do that they would have been found and persecuted. So it happened organically. There was no authority in the early church except the texts themselves. There was no authority to decide on books at the time. (10:09) Many people start the story of the NT canon in the 300s (the 4th century) when there are councils and public gatherings of different Christian groups. That seems unwise to start 300 years after the events took place. Some people will look at the 2nd century, and study the early church fathers. There are some writings about the apostles and the books people used etc (we will do that in the next teaching). We however will look at the 1st century and will look at the text themselves. Let’s start with the earliest evidence for the NT, which is in the NT itself. It will take us back to the time when the apostles were walking the earth, when they were actually writing the books in question. All the NT texts were written by the end of the 1st century. These texts were authoritative texts in the early church, we want to look at what they said about themselves and about each other that would give us a clue as to what the church thought about them. This seems like the most obvious starting point, but almost nobody starts here. And that’s because of their bias against the OT. (11:54) It wasn’t a council, it was gradual, it was not one event. Think about the way it was written, the NT books were spread out throughout the Roman empire very quickly. Letters and books were sent to different places. So you might have known Luke and Acts but you didn’t know Matthew. Slowly the letters got shared and sent between the christians. The texts with apostolic authority were simply shared organically. These letters ‘went viral’ in a sense, just like a youtube video can go viral. (13:15) The general reasoning for the NT canon. Jesus was and is a real person. If you deny this, you are off the fringe, of the fringe of the fringe. If you deny the existence of Jesus, I don’t have anything to say to you today except “you're cuckoo for coco pops”. Or maybe you just absorb all conspiracy theories apart from the one that someone is actually messing with you. Jesus is confirmed not only from the Bible but also from secular sources. His person and His teachings are the center of Christianity. According to those NT texts, we know they believed Jesus spoke with authority : Hebrews 1:1-2 : “In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. “ The old message came from the prophets and the New message came from Christ. John 12:49 : “For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.” Matthew 7:28-29 “When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.’ Matthew 28:18 : “Then Jesus came to them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” Deuteronomy 18:17-19 “The Lord said to me: ‘What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. 19 I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name.” (18;20) Jesus had apostles. His apostles were sent with His authority even while He was still on earth. Even their existence is verified with extra biblical sources. If you doubt their existence then you need to watch another video series called ‘Common Sense’ (Just messing with you). John 17:18 “As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.” John 20:21 “Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” Acts 10:39-43 “39 “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen-by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” Jesus had apostles and commissioned them to be His spokesmen in the world. Apostle means someone who is sent out.

[@cliffmorganekitson3971]

(21:30) The apostles spoke with the authority of Christ to the Church and they established the rule of what Christianity is and what it isn’t. Some Scriptures to support this : 2 Peter 3:2 : “I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Saviour through your apostles.” Notice here that it groups the commandments of the apostles with the prophets of the OT. That would be considered very bad if they didn’t already consider their commandments to be equal to the prophets’ authority. Hebrews 2:2-3 : “For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.” There is a warning, if you go against the OT you know you’re in trouble, how much more if you go against what Jesus said and what the apostles confirmed to us. Do you see the environment ? There is no doubt here that the apostles were speaking with great authority. 2 Thessalonians 3:6 : “In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from us.” The word here is tradition, but it doesn’t mean catholic tradition. There is a claim that every doctrine that the CC has defined over the years, were really apostolic traditions which were not written down but that they just knew. Spoken words of the apostles different from Catholic Tradition. Luke 1:2 “just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eye witnesses and servants of the word.” 1 Thessalonians 2:13 : “And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe.” Ephesians 2:19-20 : “19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.” This phrase apostles and prophets is important, because they hold them together as being equally authoritative. Jude verse 3 : “Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.” You can do your own word study on this, on the word “the faith” as opposed to “faith”. “Faith”, is personal belief, but “the faith” is a list of teachings and doctrines of Christianity. It says to contend, to fight, for the faith that was delivered how many times? Once. And for who? For all. The OT ends with a comma, we’re waiting on more. The NT ends and we’re waiting for Jesus, not for more Scriptures. What the apostles taught is forever the foundation of Christianity. 1 Corinthians 3:10-11 : “By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.” Paul preached the truth of Christ, and that’s the foundation and none other can be laid. We can only echo the same foundation but cannot add any new one. => Many church leaders from the early church who agreed that apostolic teaching was the most important thing when they were deciding what they were gonna call Scriptures. From one of the earliest Christian writings apart from Scriptures : 1Clem 42:1 “The Apostles received the Gospel for us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ was sent forth from God.” (31:34) The apostles’ writing carry the same authority that they did. The written word of the apostles couldn’t be less than the things they spoke. The written word of anybody is usually an even more careful telling of what they think, compared to their spoken word. And plus it’s permanent. Marc 1:1 “The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah,[a] the Son of God” John 30:21 : “31 But these are written that you may believe[a] that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” Writing this a basis for your belief as Christians. And he says if you believe it you will have eternal life. Some people think that the NT was gathered together and that the apostles are like, ‘waw I never meant for you to take that as Scriptures’. Yet their writings are telling us otherwise. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 : “So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter (epistles).” Again here it would be an anachronism to interpret tradition as Catholic Tradition. In fact, that word to the apostles would mean even writing not just oral tradition. 1 Corinthians 14:37 “If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.” Revelation 1:1-3 “The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw - that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.” (37:13) 2 Peter 3:15-16 “Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.” Peter not only affirms Paul’s apostleship but also his authoritative writing, as being scriptures, even while they are both still alive. Notice the environment here, Paul’s writing is assumed to be Scriptures. Is he building a case for Paul’s writing to be Scriptures ? Is he defending that case? No, he’s just assuming it. Because everyone in the church at the time knew the apostles’ writing were Scriptures. Some people think that the NT was gathered together and that the apostles are like, ‘waw I never meant for you to take that as Scriptures’. Yet their writings obviously tell us otherwise. 2 Peter 3: “Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2 I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Saviour through your apostles.” He writes for them to have a permanent record of apostolic teaching which is authoritative in the church. 1 Timothy 5:18 : “For Scripture says, ‘Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,’[Deut 25:4] and ‘The worker deserves his wages.’[Luke 10:7]” He is talking about the idea that elders (church leaders) who work for the church should be provided for, that they should live off the gospel. But the very important thing here is that he first quotes the OT and then Jesus in the gospel of Luke, in the NT. It starts with saying “for Scriptures says”. In Greek, it is word for word identical. Quote from John Meier: “The only interpretation that avoids contorted intellectual acrobatics or special pleading is the plain, obvious one. [1 Timothy] is citing Luke's Gospel alongside Deuteronomy as normative Scripture for the ordering of the church's ministry." 1 Tim is not making a case for Luke being Scritpures, it’s just assumed. No debate, just natural and quick acceptance of God’s Word for what it is. There are many other verses that we could quote for this, but it seems that in the NT time and in the early church there was what we could call “canon consciousness”. Reading Scriptures is a strong jewish idea. They read Scriptures in the synagogue. When we read in the NT that the recipients of the letters are being told to read the epistles, it’s a strong case to see that the letters were treated as Scriptures. (Col 4:16, 1 Thess 5:27, 2 Cor 10:9, Rev 1:3. Verses about epistles commanded to be read) A common mistake is that a lot of people look for councils 300 years after Jesus to give them the Scriptures instead of looking at the organic reception of the Scriptures into the church. But it happened organically, just like with the OT. It could be said, from Galatians 1:8-9, that the writings of the apostles are more authoritative than the apostles themselves. The message takes more authority than the messenger, once the message has been delivered. One difference btw what the apostles said and their writings. Their writings are permanent and we have them today. They are our access to the teachings of Jesus and to the authority of the apostles and their teachings. (46:37) Conclusion

[@shiloh2001]

God bless you Mr. Mike Winger.

[@somebodyelseathome]

Enjoyed the video. God bless you & your church to continue to grow spiritually

[@gordylee8421]

My new favorite channel. Is Mike on a Podcast? Wanna listen in the car !

[@murrayrunge5602]

Great presentation Mike, thanks for sharing.

[@kylerhamilton6676]

I love you so much Mike! Keep going and keep following GOD. Keep serving with all your heart. What you do MATTERS!❤

[@Africangirl55]

Excellent explanation! Thank you!

[@stacielawrence8651]

Your good , glad to find someone that speak the word of God correctly.. listening to you was like listening to myself . I been studying the word of God all my life . Well good job . Am a Jews forJesus.

[@ronaldcordaamaran7955]

CAN I LEARN MORE, SO THAT I MAY GROW DEEPER GROUNDED DEEPLY IN TRUTH, TO WATCH THE PREVIOUS VIDEOS THAT I MISED, BECAUSE OF THE SIGNAL FAILURE , ANY INFORMATION SORT OF, PLEASE INFORM ME, PLEASE FOR UPDATE

[@LynetteHulton]

Thank you so much for your teaching, it has helped me so much.

[@jassontucker482]

You’re a good teacher bro! Very good! I’ve watched a few of your videos now and you’re very good. I wonder where you were trained.

[@djgranville]

Yeah, he's such a good teacher. Very impressed by how true he is to the word and his desire to know genuinely what the bible says.

[@thewomenwhoovercome]

Thank you so much Mike! This was all I was hoping for and some. Can you possibly consider teaching on the impact of man made traditions being confused with scripture? I was recently told that our church wanted to do a "service in darkness" and all my spiritual antennae went up! I researched the Tenebrae and was deeply troubled by it. I've never heard of it in all my 72 years in ministry. However, because of our Lord's warning about deception I wanted to avoid it like the plague but because it is a church tradition it is embraced as "acceptable". I differ with that opinion. Thanks Mike and may God bless and prosper your work. In this age of deception we need all the Truth we can get,

[@BanazirGalpsi1968]

I just realized. If paul is quoting Gospel of Lyke word for word in first tim as scripture, and the generally acceptable date for pauls death is 63 or so, and luke is thw ladt of the 3 synoptic gospels written, that means all 3 were out there qnd accepted as scripture within 30 years of the events they described. Think about it. Im gen x, im 56 as of april 8 2024. Thirty years ago i was just out of college. People of pauls day had better mental memory and concentration than today because no electronics short circti g it from day one. Even if you could read, scrolls were bulky and codexes were expensive , so if something was important in a twxt you memorised it. And with it describing things that happened either in your lifetime or the lifetime of your friends and family members, it could be and often was checked for accuacy. There was litteraly almost no room for error. Those records are on target .

[@KeraJuneau]

Thank you Mike! This is so beneficial

[@timothytalberts739]

I like it when it talks as though they are talking to use as well.

[@csmoviles]

Thank you for your ministry

[@JESUS-IS-GOD316]

Wow. Glory to God❤God bless you 🎉

[@armandodeking]

Hey pastor Mike can you do a video of the books and resources you use?

[@Jefrek]

Thank you so much for the wonderful work you have done presenting this! I have been following your videos and would appreciate a good book that discusses the same topic, id est how we got the canon. Thank you.

[@fieroboom]

"...not only in the Bible, but ONLY in the Bible..." -Mike Winger 😂🤣 Your ministry is so awesome Mike, thank you!!! 👍👍

[@regelemihai]

You read The Heresy of Orthodoxy and Canon Revisited, didn't you? :) Those books are an absolute must-have for any Christian, IMO.

[@MikeWinger]

+regelemihai I spent an awful lot of time in Canon Revisited, it's a great work. I haven't read the Heresy of Orthodoxy but it's on my list.

[@regelemihai]

Oh my, it's splendid! It rehashes some of the topics you find in Canon Revisited, but there's so much good material in it. It's THE authoritative refutation of Bart Eherman's hypothesis about the development of Christianity. Happy reading, my friend. And thanks, as usual, for a fantastic presentation.

[@MikeWinger]

+regelemihai now you got me all excited to get into it! Thanks!

[@regelemihai]

My pleasure. You SHOULD be excited. It's a page-turner, for sure. Just make sure you take a lot of notes, and underline diligently. It's apologetic gold.

[@Foxygrandpa2131]

Still waiting for that archaeology study!

[@Freyaphoenix793]

Brother Mike, why is it that people still use the Apocrypha as "Biblical truth?" I've sent this video and the two after about the NT and Forbidden Books to a Hebrew Israelite because he quotes the Apocrypha as "proof" for his argument. I thank you so much for these videos and pray with my whole heart that he sees the historical truths in this video so that he can break free of this blinding bondage that holds him back from the Great Commission. Please pray for them. God bless you, brother.

[@MikeWinger]

+Dianna Yates I will pray!

[@Freyaphoenix793]

Thank you so much, brother Mike!

[@carlidoepke5131]

Excellent!!

[@victoria9663]

Mike, do you have a book recommendation that would give me a more in depth look at this subject? This teaching series is very helpful; I'd like to do a deeper dive

[@wittyliv]

Excellent teaching

[@marcyroehl247]

I would love to know the name of the group, that recorded the beautiful song, that follows this teaching and the name of the song. I am always blessed by this ministry. It has been a lifeline during this pandemic.

[@siicpaxsheechpaw]

On page 28 of "The First New Testament - Marcion's Scriptual Canon " It says " Wolfram Kinzig has presented a strong case that it was even Marcion who first coined the expression " NEW TESTAMENT " as a designation appropriate to his collection of Christian scripture -a name whose origin otherwise has proven difficult to trace."

[@siicpaxsheechpaw]

Wow no reply from mr know it all!!!

[@garybeharrell3972]

that seems to pretty much line up with what Mike teaches in his next video. Marcion AD 100-165.\ "by mid second century 4 gospels and Pauls letters were accepted as apostolic"...paraphrased.

[@jude3891]

Testament biblically speaking means covenant. The new covenant was prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and confirmed by Jesus at the last supper, recorded in all 4 gospels.

[@GayleSkidmore]

Thank you for this! Greetings from The Netherlands :)

[@karenramnath9993]

Hi Mike! I was wondering if the New Testament’s writers were all people that would have known Jesus directly. The question came to my mind when you stated that it was written within a 70 year span or so. If all the writers directly knew Jesus, is that how they knew when the New Testament was complete, ‘cause after 70 years, all the people that knew Him directly would have died out?

[@albusai]

Karen Ramnath paul was in his 90 when he wrote revelations

[@JoshSkalniak]

albusai John wrote Revelation and yes he was in his 90s

[@JewessChrstnMystic]

@@albusai paul did not right revelation.

[@inmyownbiasedopinion4482]

@@JewessChrstnMystic It was John the beloved

[@AnHebrewChild]

@@albusaiPaul most certainly did not write Revelation. Rev2:14 & 2:20 condemn eating meats sacrificed to idols.

[@philipbuckley759]

once again...an interesting concept....this is it...any new revelation, by definition....is out....what ever that may be....an interesting tool to have while talking to individuals, with their new revelation....

[@analyticalfaith]

Hi Mike, what is the evidence for Hebrews being Scripture if a person doesn't believe Paul wrote Hebrews? (If he did write it than obviously it is Scripture from what was presented here) Is there any historical evidence as to why it was considered Scripture? I believe it is Scripture, but just trying to find the original reason why it was considered Scripture.

[@patricequinn-ee1iy]

Thank you ❤️‍🔥

[@andrespark4149]

I have a question: As was mentoined in the video, Colossians 4:16 say : "After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea." Than, what if we comes to a new arqueological discovery about Paul's letter to Laodicean church? Although I think that it is not likely to happen but if it does, should we aplify volumes of our Bible or not? If the content of 'new' epistle of Paul is authentic and not controversial to any other books of the Bible?

[@andrespark4149]

@@HermeneuticsMusic thank you for your response. Seems like your view is right.

[@salmaramos3620]

I’d love to find where he got all the info. I want to look into all this. Amazing video

[@johnangelico667]

Deuteronomy 25:4 would not the ox be threshing the corn?. Usually, ploughing a field/pasture/paddock happens after the harvest has been reaped, right?

[@joshuabrowning_music]

Love all the voices he does in this video, HAHAHA

[@sylvia4425]

3:16.....Wow! That "400 year of nothing" period blew my mind.

[@attiasprouse682]

Sylvia It should, as it is incorrect. The Maccabean revolt, as recorded in Scripture) happened at this time, less than 200 years before Christ. It was recorded.

[@kevingp12]

@@attiasprouse682 he's referring to no profecies, not historical events.

[@kevingp12]

@Asaph Vapor how and where?

[@timmay100]

Hey what’s a bit too hard book for this? Maybe addressing Bart’s arguments too.

[@timmay100]

Not too hard

[@jeremyyap1714]

Not sure if you'll ever see this Ps Mike but I've got a question: were the twelve apostles well-learned people? We know that Paul was a rabbi himself and there were records of him having been a student under another famous rabbi, but there seemed to be little information in the Bible about the other apostles' religious education. Or at least I haven't found them yet.

[@5BBassist4Christ]

There is a point in the beginning of Acts where the Pharisees are perplexed at the apostles teachings because they were not learned men. In fact, that is even how they recognized them as Jesus' disciples. I believe it's within the first seven chapters of Acts.

[@AnHebrewChild]

The twelve apostles' religious education: Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that **they had been with Jesus.** Acts4:13 [] But be not ye called Rabbi: for **one is your teacher, even Christ;** and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called teachers: for **one is your teacher, even Christ.** Mat23:8-10 > And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it. But without a parable spake he not unto them: **and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.** Mrk4:33-34

[@sureshabreu3171]

Hi Mike, it is interesting that Paul talks of Himself and his fellow companions "as Ministers of the Word of God." and in 1 Thessolonians 2:13 , he commends the Thessalonians for receiving his teaching not as the "word of men" but the "word of God" as it is in truth. All when and good. Now hop over to 1 Corinthians 7 verses 10, 12, 25, 40 and even 2 Corinthians 8:10, where Paul explicitly says, "But to the rest SPEAK I, NOT THE LORD...and offers something prescriptive, do we have the right to say what Paul offered was "THE WORD OF GOD", consider further Nathan's advice to David to go ahead and build the tmple he desired in 1 Chronicles 17:2 and then was corrected by God our Father so as to forbid David from building the temple, but leaving that to Solomon or JESUS himself. I personally, believe that much i.e. upwards of 60% of 1 Cornithians 7, is not the Word of God, but the judgement of Paul albeit Paul was a Spirit filled individual. I ask you is it possible that there is more than these specific examples I have illustrated where the apostles and the prophets and the pillars of the church spoke their judgment and not necessarily the word of God in every instance. I tend to believe today that the Bible CONTAINS the WORD OF GOD, and the HOLY SPIRIT who JESUS said in John, 14, John 15, and John 16 would lead us into all truth uses it and witnesses to what is written in it to lead us to JESUS the Author and Finisher of our faith. From the examples I have offered you, I do not necessarily believe that all that is offered as prescriptive is necessarily the WORD OF GOD, however when we read scripture the Holy Spirit witnesses to us His immutable word and will if you will. I am available at [e-mail] if you would like to comment. I prefer "Sola Christus" to "Sola Scriptura" . Please comment. Thank you.

[@markhorton3994]

God chose to make Paul's opinion part of His Word.

[@James_Kiel]

Mark Horton God didn’t choose any of it. Men chose it. Sola Christus, homie.

[@tatianaG]

Wonderful comment! Seek Jesus ABOVE all else! People in the bible wrote down their experiences with Jesus so that we would go to Jesus ourselves and have a relationship... NOT so we would study their experiences.

[@kalebtrejo3388]

@@James_Kiel 🤦🤦

[@josephpaulsfan3081]

@@tatianaG Idol worship is a sin and why are promoting Hinduism? Hinduism is paganism

[@tommorgan6530]

Brother, you are awesome. God is using you! Quick question: Hebrews 9:15-18 seems to indicate that the New Testament can’t start until The testator dies. If Jesus is the testator, then the New Testament has to start at the end of the 4 gospels, correct? Didn’t man separate the testaments as our Bible’s show. Break between Malachi and Matthew. Thanks for your thoughts if you have time.

[@joseg.solano1891]

You refered to "New Testament" as though it was the name of the set of Christian books from Matthew to whatever book was written last while the author was writing. Stop applying that interpretation to what the author of Hebrews wrote. So yes, the new testament was when Jesus died and rose again and it's God's covenant still staying till today.

[@fyrerayne8882]

I'd like to see a discussion between you and Jay Dyer

[@Lord_Have_MercyX3]

Mike would never subject himself to that. The actual facts do not back up his claims. Also he never quotes any historical works to prove his argument. He is using the Bible to affirm the Bible.

[@completeTeresa]

What did it mean to be a Bishop in the first century? I'm confused that Peter could be an apostle and a bishop of Rome (where he may never have been).

[@etheligidigba410]

Peter was never a bishop of anywhere

[@AnHebrewChild]

I think it should be plain as day that Peter was not Bishop of Rome (or of anywhere, as the other commenter pointed out). The first pope WAS first century but it wasn't Simon Peter, as the Romans church would like you to think.

[@ETC_RAMZ_]

Three Step Summary with Summary of the Quoted Scriptures Mike uses: Step 1 - Jesus is a real person who had real teachings that are the center of Christianity. Hebrews 1:1-2 - paralleling of Jesus teachings with OT prophecy John 12:49 - Jesus claims to speak from God Matthew 28:18 - All authority is given to Jesus Deuteronomy 18:17-19 - The coming prophet (Jesus) will speak God's words John 20:21 - Jesus sends his apostles out with authority Acts 10:39-43 - Jesus commissioned the apostles to be his teachers and spokesmen in the world Step 2 - The apostles spoke with authority of Christ to the church, and they established the rule of what Christianity is and what it isn't. 2 Peter 3:2 - Groups the commandments of the apostles with the prophets of the OT, like they are on par. Hebrews 2:2-3 - Jesus started speaking and the apostles fulfilled the message...The warning...the OT spoke with authority and warning, how much more if we reject the message of Jesus and his apostles. 2 Thessalonians 3:6 - Hold on to the things from the apostles and reject those who do not live according to the teaching received by the apostles 1 Thessalonians 2:15-16 - Apostolic teaching is the word of God Ephesians 2:20 - Apostles and prophets are the foundation of the Christian faith, the New Testament and the Old Testament writings Jude 1:3 - The faith = the things we believe, was delivered "once for all" (past tense, we are not expecting more scriptures) 1 Corinthians 3:10-11 - Jesus Christ is the foundation, no other can be laid Step 3 - The apostles' writings, what they wrote down, carry the same authority that they did. Mark 1:1 - Gospel is absolutely authoritative and everyone is accountable to this, it is from God John 20:31 - John is writing as a basis for our belief as Christians...and if you believe it, you will have eternal life. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 - Hold the traditions you were taught whether by word or our epistle (anything I said to you or wrote to you) 1 Corinthians 14:37-38 - The things I am writing are the commandments of God Revelation 1:1-3 - Claims to be the written word of God and pronounces blessing on he who reads and hears 2 Peter 3:16 - Peter affirms that Paul is an apostle and that his writings are scripture Does Peter build a case that Paul's writings are scripture, or does he just assume it? He assumes it. It is widely known and accepted. 2 Peter 3:1-2 - Peter is writing so that the church will have this permanent record of apostolic teaching that is authoritative in the church 1 Timothy 5:18 - Paul quotes Deuteronomy and Jesus, namely in the gospel of Luke 10:7a, as scripture. Paul affirms Luke's gospel as scripture Colossians 4:16 - This epistle is commanded to be read among them and to be spread 1 Thessalonians 5:27 - read this to all 2 Corinthians 10:9 - speaks of how well-known Paul's letters were Revelation 1:3 - blessing on those who read and heard means it is being treated as scripture Galatians 1:8-9 - The message (written) of the apostles has more authority than the messenger (great sola scriptura verse)

[@bethl]

Thank you!

[@philipbuckley759]

believe, and receive....er....yeah, sign me up....

[@kevinwynn6582]

Mike, do you think it is more probable that Paul was Quoting the Gospel of Luke in his letter to Timothy or what the Church taught that Jesus actually said? I believe Luke's Gospel and Paul were probably quoting Jesus actual words as taught by the Apostles. Do you realize that neither Luke or Mark were actually present at the events they recorded in their Gospels?

[@MikeWinger]

Hi Kevin, I think Paul's quotation is of Luke and that it is also what Jesus taught. I don't see those as mutually exclusive. But the reason to say it's Luke, specifically, is that Paul calls this quote "scripture". That term can only refer to a written source, not an oral one. It wouldn't be called "scripture" if it were merely something the church carried as oral tradition. It's also important that this quote is word for word identical to Luke's record of Jesus' words. As I continue this series I will talk about Mark and Luke not being present for all the things they record.

[@kevinwynn6582]

Mike, I'm looking forward to it. Why has it taken you so long to continue this series? Hope everything is okay.

[@MikeWinger]

Thanks for your concern. Everything is good. I just took a few weeks off KZbin to catch up on some rest after some marathon weeks of study and ministry. But I'm back on normal schedule now and I'm rested up and ready to keep on keeping on. :)

[@kevinwynn6582]

Glad to hear it. You don't have to answer right now but I hope you can address these questions in an upcoming video. Did Jesus only have the 12 Apostles? What were the qualifications to be considered an Apostle? Were Mark, Luke and Jude Apostles? Thanks Kevin.

[@MikeWinger]

Hopefully I will get to that!

[@philipbuckley759]

imagine ones whole eternal destiny tied up is....letters....hmmm...just letters....amazing...

[@LiftRunFight]

Yeah, better to get it from an ideologically driven professor who has more book.burning tendencies than an communist regime. No wonder modern academia and staunch communism has so many view points in common, of which are being brought to light more and more everyday. I'll read the letters, let God speak to me, and continue to see how actual falsifiable science elucidates more of the truth all three kindled in me.

[@jacquelyngreen4210]

This series has definitely been useful to me but Mike the Dan Brown jabs that weren’t the initial one about him mixing up the 300s and the 3rd century were unnecessary.

[@siicpaxsheechpaw]

I think you need to read the Book " The First New Testament - Marcion's Scriptual Canon " This book deals on "The Evangelion and "The Apostolikon ." On page 6 Introduction it says Par 2 " Before Marcion there was no New Testament,with him it took its first shape,and after him it gradually developed into the form we now know." Par 3 it says " So it was that Marcion collected,for the first time in history,a set of authoritative Christian writings intended to be afforded a status above that of other Christian literature." I have read this whole book very technical. I recommend you read this book.

[@DunstanStLuce]

So you mean that the New Testament scriptures were not available? What did Macion used? It was the same scriptures he twisted. They were not compiled as the N.T canon as we have today but the books and letters were already in existence.

[@JewessChrstnMystic]

Marcion says the God of the old testament is evil and not the father of jesus. If you had read his work you would know this. You would also know that he was excommunicated.

[@danielvso]

27:10 Naïveté or dishonesty? "The Faith" is the same as "27 'books' of the NT?

[@ryanperez8179]

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Romans 8:7 You're a sinner in need of a savior turn to Jesus repent Jesus lives Jesus Christ is Lord Jesus loves you repent

[@joshuasalcedo3630]

A+

[@mainestitcher5038]

We read about a Council in Acts 15

[@sureshabreu3171]

Hi Jason, I have learned a LOT from your vast knowledge in terms of information. However I do want to remark on a tangential statement you made i.e. there is not such thing as UNBIASED judgement, and that the only thing critics don't criticize are their own criticism. There are several questions I have on this subject, which I do not want to publicly raise because they may be misunderstood and unhelpful. Is there away I can raise my questions with you privately, i.e. via email or phone call.

[@sureshabreu3171]

Sorry, this comment was meant for Mike Winger and not Jason..... sorry

[@philipbuckley759]

I was under the impression that gospel meant good news....but never heard of it meaning a message, with authority....hmmmm...

[@IBenZik]

Are you saying Jesus is not an authority? We are to be salt and light, salt(truth) sometimes stings.

[@samuelscheufler2747]

I think that gets into the etymology(?) Of the word. It means, at its root, good news. That doesnt mean it ONLY ever means "good news".

[@zuvarashe900]

32.24 made me legit laugh😂😂😂

[@johnnyboy7595]

Hi Mike You quote Dan Brown as saying he came to believe the de Vinci code as true. Could you possible referance where that is from. I have checked your notes, and it's not there. It would really be a great help, thanks. And thank you for all you do.

[@MikeWinger]

Here’s one site with some references for you. www.speedofcreativity.org/2006/05/17/so-what-does-dan-brown-believe/

[@johnnyboy7595]

@@MikeWinger Thank you

[@danielcarranza1957]

Listen mike ! I will let you in on a little secret, If i don't like the moral teachings of the LORD I cant say i don't, why ? Because it sounds bad, So the best way to feel good and not let others know that i am bad is of course deny the existence of the true living GOD. I will accept any thing else Dont care for logic or evidence.

[@neverbememe]

28:26

[@ibelieve3111]

Hey

[@duals-growthofculture2085]

If all this was so self-evident then do you think all the rest of Christians just got it wrong for 1500 years before Martin Luther came along and ripped books out? So was it self-evident to the Church or Martin Luther and those who believed him? If you don't believe in the authority of the Church said throughout time since Jesus then you believe in the authority of a man.

[@theespjames4114]

The Ox trending out the grain is your flesh

[@AnHebrewChild]

What makes you think that? I'm not being argumentative (it's sad we have to give this disclaimer these days), genuinely wondering.

[@AnHebrewChild]

@@theespjames4114 interesting. It's late at night so I'll have to revisit this during daylight. Thank you for replying. Be blessed.

[@ryandersones]

Mike should go sit in the corner with the inspired list with no one to recognize his work.

[@MrTadfortitude]

The Eastern Orthodox Church gave us the Bible. The end. You can try to add all the information you want. It really is just that simple.

[@frankkhethanidubedube919]

Just a quick question did Jesus Christ came to start new religion? He lived as a jew, died as a jew coming back as a jew.. Does He even approve the word Christianity?

[@mainestitcher5038]

We know at least one of Pauls epistle is missing. So, if Peter said that all of Pauls letters are Scripture, we must have a book missing from the Bible. It's pretty outrageous to claim that God would allow Scripture to be lost.

[@dawglf]

There's no proof of a missing epistle

[@AnHebrewChild]

KZbin says you wrote your comment one year ago. You were asking the right questions then, hopefully you're getting the right answers. Be blessed.

[@bosstoober8782]

Catholic origin of the new testament: the smartest scholars of Christianity, guided by God, infallibly differentiated between inspired and human sources Protestant origin: people shared letters and just sort of guessed at which ones were genuine

[@friedrichrubinstein]

Nobody guessed anything. It was crystal clear to everyone who was apostle and who wasn't.

[@bosstoober8782]

@@friedrichrubinstein the apostles used the Septuagint 😳😳😳

[@friedrichrubinstein]

@@bosstoober8782 The Septuagint is the Old Testament. We're talking about the New Testament here, aka the writings of the apostles themselves.

[@bosstoober8782]

@@friedrichrubinstein oh yeah... There were still faked epistles and people disagreed about which ones were genuine, as well as apocryphal gospels

[@friedrichrubinstein]

@@bosstoober8782 The apostles nowhere mention fake epistles or disagreements. Those things appeared a few centuries later. If you have watched this video you'll know that we talk about the 1st century here. When Paul was still alive.

[@mainestitcher5038]

The Council of Nicea had nothing to do with the canon Scripture. Dan Brown is not the origin of this thought. It's the Councils of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage which dealt with the canon of Scripture. Can we all laugh at your lack of historical knowledge?

[@mccalltrader]

There is a guy who is arguing with me on one of my channels that claims jesus was not jewish...he thinks the European depictions of Jesus are accurate I mean, i love me European Jesus..I just dont think that he is actually the real jesus! Lol

[@lilhammad9214]

thomas Jefferson ' Paul the first corruptor of the doctrines of Jesus ' huh?....jesus ' the greatest command is to worship our lord the one god only ' oh I see. Paul taught the opposite god a trinity foreign to Jesus

[@mccalltrader]

lil hammad not the last time Jefferson is full of it, lol Jesus accepted worship and forgave sins, two things only God can do, Jesus taught that he was distinct from the father..yet co-equal...Jesus is only Lord if he is God

[@ryanesau8147]

It could be an accurate representation, many Jews look Caucasian ..bottom line is it doesn’t matter

[@christianlaraque2234]

I’m not finished with the video but you are hiding facts from your followers. You didn’t tell them that the gospel of peter. Acts of peter. Acts of Paul. The pistas sophia. Epistle of barnabas. Revelation of peter. Gospel of Thomas. Gospel of nicodemus were canonized in certain churches Even Catholics and orthodox Greek and Ethiopian bibles have more than 66 books.

[@JewessChrstnMystic]

Where can I find these texts?

[@JewessChrstnMystic]

The pistas Sophia is in other bibles?!?!?! 😳🤯 really????

[@JewessChrstnMystic]

Is this where the nag hammadi should come in? Btw theres a secret book of john as well. .

[@bradb2680]

He has another video that covers most if not all of those books.

[@aclk1520]

Jesus spoke to His apostles saying: John 14:16 “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever” He was only talking to His apostles, knowing His apostles will not live on earth forever.. but through apostolic succession through the Church- yes. He was not talking to you or me. Ephesians 3:21 Ephesians 3:21 “to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.” There’s only one historic church and its Jesus’ Church-the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

[@JewessChrstnMystic]

Look we all know the Vatican and pope is evil.. he literally said "hail christos son of Lucifer" he calls himself holy father, its blasphemous.

[@AnHebrewChild]

@@JewessChrstnMysticagree. Protestant christians should quit following the founder of the Romans' church -- a man who also called himself father. No man can serve two masters. Christians need to follow Jesus.

[@duguoqing84]

authoritative does not equate to divinely inspired

[@DunstanStLuce]

In this case it does. If a word is inspired it is also authoritative. In this case not only is it authoritative but also inspired.

[@keletolemo5163]

this is a protestant lie.

[@kevingp12]

what and how is it a lie? How do you know better?

[@christianlaraque2234]

The Hebrew Bible never says the messiah will rise from the dead. As well no prophet says the messiah will be named Jesus. The New Testament authors were using the Hebrew Bible to write the jesus narrative.

[@JewessChrstnMystic]

Just like God went by many names, so did yeshua. Also messianic Hebrew speaking Israelites can show you in their Hebrew bibles where the messiah was to be cut off (dead) then risen again. And that by his wounds the nations would be healed. Isaiah 53 is not talking about Israel, their suffering has never saved anyone or blessed the nations, and the only one that can take credit for the knowledge of all nations of the God of the Israelites is yeshua, no other servant has accomplished this. Also the messiah had to come before the destruction of the second temple. . Why do you think theres no more sacrifices for sins??? Uews will even tell you they know there is no forgivness for sin unless theres sacrafice. I suggest you go look at Hebrew apologetics by messianic Hebrew speaking native Israelites.

[@AnHebrewChild]

Psalm 41

[@jerichosharman470]

It’s funny how he sounds and speaks so sure and confidently yet he is wrong with sooooo much

[@wjm5972]

If you have a Bible , thank a Catholic

[@adindubose9314]

Thanks Luther

[@IBenZik]

I will thank the apostles, The RCC was just the editor.

[@StephaniePeeleIAm]

Even if prophecies were fulfilled, it is not evidence that a mind that created our universe was responsible for giving these prophecies to humans. Mike Winger knows this. I wish he'd respond to my comment but he won't because there is no argument that he can come up with which would justify his statement that fulfilled prophecies are proof the text came from a god.

[@shredhed572]

Well, if you don't believe Jesus predicting His own death, burial and resurrection, then doing just that.....then there's nothing more to be said. Is there?

[@StephaniePeeleIAm]

@@shredhed572 You're right, that is terrible evidence for proving that someone created our universe. Making a prediction and it coming true just means that you can predict the future.

[@blastingcows5024]

Stephanie Peele… right, and how many people do you know can accurately predict the future?

[@StephaniePeeleIAm]

@@blastingcows5024 Well, at least 1. Me. I predict you will vote Republican in 2024.

[@blastingcows5024]

@@StephaniePeeleIAm nope

[@tookie36]

35:00..... big gulp before the false teaching :)

[@dawglf]

Yes. The false teaching of the Roman Catholic Church

[@timsatterfield9752]

Freudian slip?

[@conradrideoutcr]

New Testament chosen by the Roman Catholic Church and high ranking scholars of the time. Hmmmmmmm. Sounds fishy and corrupt. This is the reason for so many contradictions in the New Testament books. Sooo many. This is why I turned away from Christianity and turned to rabbi of Judaism.

[@markhorton3994]

Modern Judaism has very little to do with the word of God, I.e.Law and Prophets. It is mostly the thoughts and writings of a bunch of bearded old men each called Rabbi. That is "high ranking scholars ".

[@wjm5972]

@Asaph Vapor And the Church is built on the Apostles with Peter as its visible head after Christ was crucified

[@shredhed572]

@Asaph Vapor I believe that is just what they are taught. Actually the rcc has to do a lot of proof texting to force the idea that Peter was pope on the bible There was no pope back then. That was forced on the bible hundreds of years later. I went to the "church of christ" cult as a young boy. They do a lot of similar things that the rcc does.

[@nosuchthing8]

I come to the exact opposite conclusion. If the old testament was settled, then the writers of the new testament books simply had to make sure the text aligned to the ot predictions.

[@richardbluett958]

God speaks all through the old testament, but does not speak in the new testament, why is that?

[@YouMayKnowMeAsNate]

You’re not counting Matthew 3:17, then? (Just the first that comes to mind, not saying that’s the only time)

[@richardbluett958]

@@YouMayKnowMeAsNate When did Matthew write his book in the Bible? Most scholars believe the gospel was composed between AD 80 and 90, with a range of possibility between AD 70 to 110; a pre-70 date remains a minority view. So when Matthew wrote his gospel any so called witnesses would have probably been dead, so there is no proof God spoke, when God spoke through the prophets everything they said had to be fulfilled or the prophets would have been killed as false prophets that is the difference between old and new testaments, so Matthew 3:17. proves nothing about God speaking, and that is why I say God speaks all through the Hebrew scriptures but does not speak in the N.T.

[@YouMayKnowMeAsNate]

@@richardbluett958he credibility of the New Testament is a completely different question that I am not at all qualified to answer. I can only say that God does speak in the New Testament to answer your first question My question to you would be: if the gospels are not credible, why would they be accepted so quickly and easily by the people at the time? I would think if some random person just made up the book of Matthew that there would surely be a backlash

[@richardbluett958]

@@YouMayKnowMeAsNate Remember, if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth, Paul and the church told that lie, look at how many people today believe the tele- evangelists the old testament prophets have been proven correct at the time of their prophecies, all the new testament prophecies were written after the fact, by unknown authors and church scribes by the time you got the new testament every witness was dead including Jesus, please study more as I did and I left Christianity.