How Will You Ever Kill Me If I Can't Take Damage? | Against the Odds

What are the odds of living forever in Standard thanks to Living Conundrum and Angel of Suffering? Let's find out!
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[@NeoSamurai13]

2:12 “As long as our opponent can’t wrath our board” is a hell of a condition in the Sunfall meta.

[@Small_Panda]

You mean in a meta where Seth made a deck that was nothing but wraths. I believe 36 wraths to be correct.

[@sammielawrence4781]

​@@Small_Pandathe fact that he could says something about the choice of not removing sets from standard.

[@machobsful]

also tons of storms wrath style effects too. dealing untargeted damage

[@DimT670]

​@@sammielawrence4781that it's awesome because it gifts us decks like these?😂

[@NightmareFuelsYou]

Nobody plays sunfall. Terrible card honestly

[@Martini_1911]

This one felt like an old-fashioned Against the Odds. I loved that this decks main win condition is the opponents failing a reading comprehension check

[@grubgobbler3917]

That last opponent desperately reading the cards after it was too late was hilarious!

[@Bigd2k]

Those are some good eyes. It was easy to miss but you can see them highlight the card and you can hear the aw sh…

[@Jp-gl9gi]

Haven’t seen the video but you beat the best deck in the format

[@DanmanJR]

literally every video 😆

[@nicoletamez518]

He did not beat the best deck in standard this game lol

[@TheWorldsStage]

@@nicoletamez518 he beat a Boros Convoke deck

[@OddMidnight]

​​@@TheWorldsStage Boros convoke is tier 2 at best

[@the_g8keyper]

@@OddMidnightin bo1 it’s probably close to the best deck in the queue though

[@thelivingtarget4225]

Hey Seth, you should try this deck again, but with vehicles! When you have Lost in the Maze out, instead of trying to freeze your own angel with a tap enchantment like Weakstone Subjugation, you could just crew with the Angel to give it immediate hexproof. This lets you tap out for the angel and have no fear of direct removal.

[@fluffyfang4213]

Genius. I recommend Flywheel Racer. It's cheap and can tap itself when it's a creature to join the hexproof club (and is potentially ramp). Highspeed Hoverbike could also cause silly tap/hexproof shenanigans. Only other thing I can think of is to lean into the mill strat more in case your opponent isn't milling for you and to find the important combo pieces; add Jace and It Doesn't Add Up, Black Sun's Twilight, or even Breach the Multiverse.

[@ronanh.9261]

Oooh yes!

[@trollshamanpwnage]

Get in the car angel of suffering, you're drunk

[@rkbmcb]

Fully agree with you, Seth. Weird Al is an incredible artist.

[@amossypile7665]

The Polkarama on Straight outta Lynwood lives in my head rent free.

[@Tinil0]

@@amossypile7665 I think Polka Face is still the one that gets stuck in my head the most for some reason, even though that set of songs was right at the edge of when I stopped being as familiar with pop music. Angry White Boy Polka is probably the most relevant age of pop (Well, pop rock/nu metal/whatever) for me.

[@boobox2000]

You should put Jace in the deck. It can be an alternate target for people to attack and give you card draw and help with your mill strat.

[@ryaankang5452]

Another episode of "Magic Arena Players can't read" for the books

[@Michael-mh6we]

I'm really disapointed there wasn't a cameo from the Prof. "reading the cards explains the cards"

[@OddMidnight]

Sometimes I wonder how many players on Arena are literal children.

[@DimT670]

​@@OddMidnightif you think grown ass long time MTG players don't often misread cards or skip reading em altogether, you haven't played enough magic😂

[@alexandercandicedad1355]

For the what? I don't recognize that last word you used....

[@chester1882]

Math is for blockers

[@ZeroIsEven]

Shoutout to Weird Al’s Polkas!

[@kevinscapegoat3719]

Some of my favorite songs from his whole discography!

[@ScornfulEg0tist]

I really like the one with chop suey in it, iirc it's "angry white boy polka"

[@Ol_Bren]

More weird al polka lovers, there's dozens of us!

[@ecoKady]

I would not have pegged Seth as a Weird Al fan, but Al's just so good. It doesn't matter which 40 year old guy you are, you love Al.

[@TheChiefKipSavage]

I was hoping there would be a comment with a lot of likes for the Weird Al reference 😊

[@pneuma08]

The flavor of this deck is pretty hilarious. Sad angel hides in the hedge maze.

[@GhostCryProductions]

You mean Jack Nicholson?

[@EclipseWhites]

Was not expecting Seth to sing Kid Cudi at 6:52

[@johndoriansmith]

when I was playing legacy a month or so ago when I played a day/night creature I sung a little bit of that song and only my friend who was there got my lil joke, it was funny though

[@lachlank.8270]

Dear Seth: Run some cheap phasing effects like Slip Out the Back or March of Swirling Mists to protect angel from the wraths ❤

[@soasertsus]

swirling mists is such an underrated card, it's been an all star in my blue decks. You can just discard some junk to phase your entire board out of sunfall or the entire opponents board and swing through

[@Shimatzu95]

A better idea is probably more countespells, phasing "removes" the angel from the board, thereby turning damage back on.

[@DomonCashewNuts]

It's a boros player in standard right now of course they can't read all they know is to press spacebar :p

[@Bigd2k]

15:58 I don’t know why but I love hearing Seth try to give advise to his opponent.

[@DaveBerryForPresident]

Seth, in his big-brother mode: "Stop hitting yourself. Why you hitting yourself? Stop it."

[@laytonjr6601]

Thassa's oracle+Demonic Consultation: look what they need to do to mimic a fraction of our power

[@laytonjr6601]

What's the plan if the opponent notices what you're doing and doesn't attack (assuming they don't have a wrath or enchantment removal)? Mill them out?

[@hyperion9934]

@@laytonjr6601thanks to the living conundrum you will never deck out so you just have to keep going until your opponent decks out.

[@suddenlyboop1815]

This was really funny to see how many players take the "big cards go smash" approach to magic. I am pretty sure that combat decks have no way to get around your combo pieces. Very funny, well done!

[@GrayAlchemyst]

This is my favourite video of yours! Sending it to everyone I know

[@Onirikas]

Seth, regarding the one mana mana dork in standard... dinos have it and they can play a 6/6 in turn two, and they dont see much play..

[@zaksaturday1693]

One of the interesting interactions with angel and your landbase is you could unnecessarily tap an underground river for colored mana to mill 2, like at the end of your second game (if you hadn't drawn that cycler).

[@jameshayes-barber9340]

Seth not realizing Angel turns off Combat damage triggers pains me. He let that Gix draw so many cards.

[@crovax1375]

Angry White Boy Polka is hilarious!

[@ScornfulEg0tist]

Angels deserve to Die die die, die die-die die-die die

[@martin.draganov4749]

I always check frantically if there is a new vid, this is the first time it works (Like when you check the fridge if something delicious magically conjured there)

[@nvvv_]

Polka Your Eyes Out will never leave my head. If i hear it start i can sing it word for word. Anyway cool deck!

[@hmvollbanane1259]

Man that second match versus mono red was satisfying to watch.

[@blakethesnake6686]

Great video as always saffronolive, thanks

[@paulocampino5045]

Good stuff, Mr. Olive.

[@midn8588]

This might be the worst deck ever played on against the odds. It's a 4 card combo to not win the game, in standard where your card draw is total ass. I love it.

[@JusteazyGames]

Every time: Seth: "sell-uhs-tus" Me: "suh-LESS-tus!" Celestus. It's a celestial calender that tracks the sun and moon.

[@theprotogamer5253]

You continue to show your excellent taste in music Seth. 😊 Love Weird Al

[@JosephParker_Nottheboxer]

One theory is that people are still milling you so you then can't draw any further answers, and just missed that things become a 10/10. Usually in a game finding a way to prevent your opponent from drawing any more cards for the rest of the game seems like a win. The other is they know they've lost, so go out in a blaze of glory...

[@ericaschner3283]

Turn 1: Opponent plays any land Seth: Ugggghhh

[@AndrewRaia]

Memory Deluge would be a good add to this deck to try and deck for combo pieces faster.

[@CRAETION_]

Love this level of pure jank

[@realtorchancegassman8662]

What fun. I’d be so flabbergasted to go against this deck.

[@icantsayping6282]

22:50 on this point rn there *is* 1 mana dork in standard, Just for dinos with lore keeper. I've had good success with green ramp using the dork to drop hulking raptor on turn 3, and then hitting land drops makes you able to drop a haste tyrranax Rex on turn 4. which especially on the play means they are 2 turns out tell their sunfall, and 1 turn tell their no witnesses or other 4 mana wraiths, unfortunately so much of your ramp there is creature based, with only turn 2 open to do land ramp, so post wipe your mana is gone. but if the game goes to you getting the mana again the haste really helps finish for the final hit

[@ItzJames57]

Bro for like the past 2 weeks, Weird Al's now thats what I call polka and polka face has been stuck in my head, and I've just been keeping them on repeat since then, I'm happy im not the only one lol

[@musicmanley]

I think a lot of these opponents might be doing their daily reward. Attack with so many creatures or cast so many spells of a color, etc...

[@MaxMckayful]

Seth a couple weeks ago: "Standard has SO MANY wraths right now that I built an only wrath deck!" Seth today: "The only weakness of this combo is a wrath" Hmmmm....

[@davidhower7095]

Are there really no good ways to give Angel a tap ability? Surely you can do better than lockdown auras…

[@BobBoican]

There are some options in green that would let you tap for mana, since he's already running The Celestus it might be worth it? But seems too conditional for the upside

[@adamg941]

maybe cauldron and some looters? could also play maybe something like Hermit then which might be better against some aggro while also possibly filling negates role vs sweepers somewhat

[@fluffyfang4213]

As a few others have mentioned, vehicles. Better than a tap ability since it can be protected immediately.

[@grubgobbler3917]

Shock was reprinted in MKM. There are definitely better cards that do the same thing, but if you've been drafting the latest set you probably have a couple lying around.

[@atheistforcastiel9376]

The Hamilton Polka is literally the greatest song ever.

[@gameonspooky]

Seth, I dont know if you will see it, but you gave me a little joy in a bad day, thank you

[@the_r4ts]

I was going to recommend a vehicle like the Schooner in place of Bitter Chill / Weakstone's Subjugation, but this deck actually runs no creatures to crew them apart from the prison wardens XD

[@kurufeemo8076]

I have been playing a 250 pile with angel of suffering and its certainly a lot of fun.

[@liamw.1313]

Sillycal standard

[@DonovanPresents]

This "against the odds" turned into a "teaching arena zoomers" video fairly quickly 😂

[@gideondaniels8010]

“Teaching arena zoomers to read our cards”

[@victoraguirre7486]

Nonsense cards to annoy meta decks? Yes please

[@Gureiseion]

Yoooo, grew up on Weird Al, and the polkas were always great.

[@icefiredragon94]

I found Weird Al cause of him doing the original pokemon dex with a polka cover. He's funny and his covers are great haha

[@Jawzah]

Hexproof works on resolution too.. So you kind of don't need to keep creatures always tapped to have them protected by Lost in Maze - just have a way to always tap them when needed.. And there's really easy way - a vehicle -any vehicle with crew cost equal or less than the creatures you want to protect total power will do. Dunno what would be the best.. In azorius I'd probably like to play the sawblades with the Lost in Maze.. The Schcooner might be OK in any blue.

[@reaganl.607]

I'm kind of wondering if some type of mix of more counters/control + shore up/slip out the back style effects would be better than the janky enchantment plan, this way you can protect the angel and any other pieces while also controlling the board more in the early game to survive a bit better. if anything, just having a playset of Lost in the Maze plus a playset of a utility vehicle, as someone else said, could make the hexproof plan more consistent. Too bad reckoner bankbuster got banned! Would help a lot in this deck, both ramp and looting.

[@pizzaman42]

I learned two important lessons from this video - 1. Red mages only know how to click one button 2. READING THE CARD EXPLAINS THE CARD! 🤣 Great video as always!

[@HimitsuYami]

You had one opponent who actually seemed to figure out what was going on. But I think they realized their deck had no answer to it, and rather than scoop, they wanted to watch it play out with you. Probably laughing their ass off in the process at the jank

[@davidcrawford5324]

LOL add in a Jace, Wielder of Mysteries as a wincon just in case you hit a board wipe. Just gotta have a way to cast him with flash and you've got a way to not only avoid deck death but clinch the win lol

[@dyslixecturtle2755]

Seth, never change lol you are a national treasure

[@austinwarden9148]

"I swear to God no one reads our cards" lmfao literally me every match I play 😂

[@alaraplatt8104]

when you assemble your 4 card combo and still lose

[@juansebastianpradosanchez7967]

Super fun games 😂

[@AkFortyMuppet]

Why not play sweet vehicles instead of the tappers? That way you can crew in response to the removal

[@KebbieG]

I think they should print a legendary Llanowar Elf. It boosts green without letting them getting ahead to much with having multiple copies on the board.

[@vctrsigma]

I think it needs some sort of extra upside to balance being legendary since drawing multiples is basically a dead draw and you want to run a full set of manadorks for it to be a viable strategy. Also thematically very bleh if you make it literally just a legendary llanowar elf. Maybe shroud/hexproof would be enough to make it better against spot removal without directly making it overpowered. That or a green-tapland MDFC so extra copies aren't dead draws.

[@KebbieG]

@@vctrsigma Maybe give a little boost by giving it Ward. 🤷

[@maikocat]

@@vctrsigma There was this idea back in Futuresight called Grandeur on legendary cards, where you'd discard a card with the same name as the legendary for some effect.

[@gmikecstein]

Love Weird Al's polkas!

[@Crazymachin3gun]

Y aren't u playing vehicles if u need to tap down anyway unlicensed hearse seems perfect

[@TheLunaLockhart]

Ixalli's Lorekeeper is a 1 mana mana dork in standard, just so you know

[@ReyosBlackwood]

Seth "we need to draw a negate" also seth "milling us out is good"

[@AndrewWilson-fb8ge]

how is it not easier to splash another color to give the creatures indestructible or the angle hexproof?

[@Netro1992]

OK, but which one is funnier?

[@LlywellynOBrien]

I have not watched any gameplay yet this yet but I predict that for once he doesn't at any point question whether this one is any good.

[@quirkyc]

Absolutely insane that many people just... did that

[@ryanmather5665]

such a random fun brew

[@MsMiDC]

I think Shock was from Murders at Karlov Manor no?

[@alexreffand]

In mono red, Brotherhood's End and Burn Down The House kill this deck through hexproof. I'd drop the demonic bargain for some march of swirling mists to dodge wraths and then this combo could be legit.

[@GhostCryProductions]

A sac deck can also beat Sufferring Conundrum Prison. Can’t mill or prevent damage if you’re forced to bury your board.

[@HostileLoather]

Shock was reprinted in MKM

[@francescosantangelo6357]

Is this.... Madness?!

[@MitchPiotrowski]

Could definitely use Reenact the Crime in this deck I feel...

[@Zorgdub]

Seth: "How Will You Ever Kill Me If I Can't Take Damage?" Me: "Mill, duh." Seth: "The first piece is Living Conundrum." Me: "Oh .... well, never mind then. Time for a Door To Nothingness Deck."

[@dieguitopp]

Funny thing is, I’m one of those players that when they see the huge text in the opponent’s card, I don’t even care to read it. XD love you seth

[@laytonjr6601]

Your creature has too much text, doom blade. (It doesn't work here because of hexproof) Edit: Doom Blade isn't in Standart so Go for the Throat instead

[@xchronox0]

Which is honestly fair. Reading too many words is how you lose all your timers.

[@Atmapalazzo]

green needs a defensive phasing effect, but it's unlikely to get one, since they seem incredibly stingy with phasing and even if they do print a phasing card, it's usually in blue regardless of whether it's offensive or defensive.

[@Goldy01]

hexproof and indestructible, take it or leave it!

[@midn8588]

What we learned this week is that not a single arena player knows how to read

[@IanValasek]

I wonder if aggro players have internalized losing to mill as “you lose when your deck is empty” instead of the actual rule “you lose when you draw from an empty library”. In which case it doesn’t matter if they’re reading the cards or not they simply won’t comprehend how Living Conundrum stops you from losing.

[@julianelehmann]

40:30 Well, two brotherhood's ends would do it.

[@Aerix]

What did we learn? Reading the card explains the card.

[@josephrion3514]

This first game. You have seen all four angels and pitched third one scared me. You gambling so hard.

[@michaelsilk275]

Would it be better to use Surgical Extraction and Test of Talents?

[@michaelsilk275]

Or just a gaea’s blessing?

[@DarklordZagarna]

"So what's your best matchup? Control?" "No, they just wrath our board and counter our combo pieces." "Okay, so aggro then." "Nope, they remove our angels and kill us before we can get our lock pieces." "... okay, does this deck have ANY good matchups?" "Com...bo?"

[@giantpizzafish]

People forget that Weird Al is an amazing artist.

[@jackiespaceman]

It’s because half his songs aren’t funny

[@cuddlequeen3225]

Someone is going to have a suffering conundrum. Whether it's us or our opponents is yet to be seen.

[@noobtube2799]

Hi Seth. NoobTube here. Given that it has already been a day since release of this video, I don't know if you will see this, but I will post it anyways. I recently created a new deck that I am trying out in Timeless MTGA. I think you would really enjoy this deck. It has ponza, but it also uses a Grinning Ingus + Birgi combo as a wincon. I find it really fun to play and it wrecks a good portion of the meta, especially Zoo and strangely (because most lists run 2-4 basics), Titan Field. It struggles against Mono-Black and Burn, but you can pull through against Burn. Decklist below. Decklist: 4x Birgi, God of Storytelling (KHM) 4x Blood Moon (WOT) 4x Bloodstained Mire (MH3) 4x Deathrite Shaman (RVR) 3x Delighted Halfling (LTR) 4x Devilish Valet (SNC) 4x Forest (MH3) 4x Gamble (SPG) 3x Gilded Goose (LTC) 4x Grinning Ignus (STX) 4x Impact Tremors (WOT) 3x Llanowar Elves (30A) 4x Mountain (BLB) 4x Stomping Ground 3x Windswept Heath (MH3) 4x Wooded Foothills (MH3) Sideboard (you can build a sideboard if you want to play this in Bo3 which I know you enjoy more) 1x Jegantha, the Wellspring

[@jimmybobobbingo]

So, watching, in the aggro/midrange game, opponents didn't bother trying to kill angel. They just attacked thinking milling you out would kill you. And in the control game with plenty of angel removal/counterspells, you couldn't keep angel on the battlefield anyway. Seems like all the stuff for the hard lock was unnecessary in every game. The soft lock seemed to be more than enough from a disruption stand point, that you could put in more cards to make all the matchups more winnable.

[@Malik1378]

This deck, but in explorer with leyline of sanctity

[@DragonAttack515]

You should run more counters.

[@stephenjerome7793]

I’m surprised you don’t have a couple copies of Breach the Multiverse in your deck, it lets you mill 10 and then put 2 creatures from graveyards onto the battlefield under your control.

[@LordZurkov]

You only get one from your graveyard, and it's already a very high MV deck. 🤔

[@tkmoosey4436]

This is the zesty gabagool mama mia

[@masterjbt]

“Green is so bad right now” followed by “oh god another green deck”

[@JacoDeltaco]

34:02 OMG it Lightning helix

[@magnusbevaart2477]

15:44 couldn't the opponent have bounced the Angel before damage?

[@RIHTZ]

the amount of opponent misplays is insane 😂

[@Malik1378]

Haven't seen the video yet but they had the exact right thing

[@11macedonian]

At 48:46 you could have played the path of peril and swung with conundrum to win instead of playing the angel.

[@nicoletamez518]

But that's not as fun

[@11macedonian]

@@nicoletamez518 True.