How Wobbling Held Back Ice Climbers (ft.

[@TrinitySaysHi]

We’re wobbling folks

[@SSBMNicki]

sssh don't tell them

[@mrmangbro6842]

I can picture Jim saying this during a tournament

[@oORoOFLOo]

It is wobbling weekend folks

[@XxbelligerentxX]

Proud of Nicki after his recent achievement at DPotG 2024! I was rooting for him the whole time. Glad you were able to showcase him in this conversation.

[@chess_fella]

Imagine if the Breaking Bad theme starts playing in the smash direct and you think to yourself OH SHIT WALTER WHITE IN SMASH BROS and then they reveal that actually Walter JR is the new playable character… that would be epic.

[@Olliertlol]

Jim be pulling the most random guests out lmao

[@Olliertlol]

this man's reach is insane

[@handoverthestromboli6715]

27:42 Jim busting out his knowledge of the German language to zugzwang his German interviewee into agreeing with him. Insane play

[@olivergro7105]

I don't even know the word Zugzwang lol. To my monkey brain this translates to train obligation.

[@handoverthestromboli6715]

@@olivergro7105 I think Zug has a second meaning of a "move" in a game because it originates from Chess so a move obligation means you're forced to make a move you dont want to

[@Gabriel64468]

@@handoverthestromboli6715its particularly about positions where you would prefer to not do any move at all, but you can’t pass a turn, so there is a zwang to make a Zug.

[@Duffy_SSBM]

Absolutely loving the Melee crossovers

[@AndrewRKenny]

I got my question answered, how epic. Nicki has a very pleasant personality, it was great hearing from him and I kind of resonate with a lot of what he said, if not through experience then through observation. Would love to see more EU tournaments getting back to their former glory.

[@catandfishfc]

Wobbuffet can wobble players too. Encore + Shadow Tag is basically an infinite.

[@josephklein2583]

I fully support and wish for more melee players for this podcast as a fan of both games

[@tyler94flynn]

Love this series

[@brewslidepark]

That's crazy to have to learn to short hop with z button, I couldn't imagine short hopping without the z button lol

[@SamGBSR]

This guest was made in a lab for your podcast jim.

[@eded94]

did not expect this, more please!

[@Legogreens]

Please put on Spotify so I can listen in my speakers while I cook supper, thanks and take care

[@kennythekid130]

We are nobbling folks

[@gooms6284]

jimothy cool where is my iron mugulis question, I earned it after warming up wizzy with my terrible ICs to set up the nicki dub

[@fums63]

Joshman mentioned?? Would love to see him on here sometime

[@Gabriel64468]

Wait nobbling is named after a player? I thought it was a contraction of no(t) and wobbling.

[@mogaku776]

More fridged melee yippee!

[@octoccult]

sorry if you’ve already answered this question a bunch, but is there any possibility of getting this podcast on spotify?

[@awakebydefault]

Dream pairing

[@meanbeanmachine]

Are hand-offs also inescapable? How are they different than wobbling, apart from being slightly easier to execute?

[@thundercharged1]

Handoffs are much more difficult to execute and weight-dependent, but, in addition, they are mainly limited to the sides of the stage, and can only be repeated so many times before you run out of stage. Also, since they rely on the backup climber throwing the opponent forward, they're only guaranteed near the edges of the stage (they throw randomly elsewhere), which limits the number of repetitions possible before you run out of space to grab the opponent.

[@Goofy8907]

Total noob here, why don't Melee players play Ultimate? Or do they? I like Ultimate a lot and feel like it made everything better But as a noob I never interact with any of the technical intricacies of these games, so I'm sure there are some good reasons, it'd be nice to hear

[@ribjoh98]

Play a few months of melee and then try switching back to ult! It is a jarring experience

[@SKITZ_MONEY]

melee has a lot of very intricate mechanics that let you be very expressive with your movement. ultimate by comparison feels very limiting. high level players in ultimate playing the same character tend to look similar and go for the same combos which is less the case in melee. it is a game thats very interesting to learn about if you don't want to try it yourself and theres a lot of youtube documentaries and stuff about it

[@Keys60_]

ultimate slow and bad

[@kennythekid130]

I'd say Melee is incredibly analog, expressive, interactive for both sides of every possible interaction(gives you the feeling that there is always something you can do every frame no matter what is happening). You can imagine it as being similar to learning a musical instrument or a sport. Where time invested is always rewarded in improvement and a balance patch can't take it away from you. The game's physics engine and low input lag allows for precision of inputs increasing the potential skill ceiling significantly. There is also a large amount of movement mechanics (wavedash/waveland, shield drop, edge cancel, moonwalk, dash dance, Lag cancels, ledge dash, NIL, Pivot,etc.) and defensive mechanics (Crouch Cancel, ASDI Down, SDI, DI, Light Shield, PowerShield, V-Cancel, ADT Z Powershield, etc.) that allow there to always be at least five different you can go for every frame giving you the feeling that you can truly express how you want to play. It also gets rid of the feeling some other games have where you are getting combo'd and can't do anything about it because the defense mechanics allow you to always be able to get out of a combo if you pick the right option. Which makes the feeling of comboing someone to death so rewarding because your opponent was able to choose an multiple different defensive options in a stock and you were able to pick the right moves to continue the combos in spite of that. I'd say if you have any interest in competitive smash to give melee a try. There is an online matchmaking emulator called Slippi that allows you to instantly be matched with opponents around your skill level through an elo system.

[@joeykelly5642]

Melee has no input buffer and complex movement mechanics, so the skill ceiling is much, much higher. I’m sure nostalgia is a factor for some players, too.

[@redwarrior118]

Until an ICs main reaches the peak of 2016 Chudat, I'm not buying it 😅

[@zacharymacaroni7649]

22 on SSBMRank? I have news for you

[@redwarrior118]

@@zacharymacaroni7649 Naw Chudat was top 10 at one point during that era

[@uuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh]

@@zacharymacaroni7649 he probably meant when he was 7th in summer 2017

[@zacharymacaroni7649]

@@uuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh o wtf i didn't realize he got that high

[@TheMacaroniPanda]

@@zacharymacaroni7649Chudat the goat

[@lordmew5]

Prewatching video comment: I am highly skeptical of his claim that wobbling held the climbers back, but it doesn't even make sense. That said, I'll give him a chance.

[@tomrejor4842]

It's a basically the thing of having a top tier easy option making you not explore all the other options you had until that option being removed. Of course if you gave wobbling back to ice climbers nowadays they'd be crazy but they never learned all those techs prior to having to play without wobbling is mostly the point.

[@nickq8093]

@@tomrejor4842 what nicki says doesn't seem to suggest that tho? he mostly said that icies have been developing punish tools to help get their punish game back up again now that wobbling is banned. if you gave them back wobbling all that development doesn't translate.

[@tomrejor4842]

@@nickq8093 not all of it would translate like the hand offs which are inferior wobbling but I'm still fairly certain a good bit of it would translate. As anything that isn't just a wobbling downgrade can and will eventually have it's use even if wobbling comes back imo

[@nickq8093]

@@tomrejor4842 but that's my point, nicki basically said "right after the ban icies couldn't punish well, and people *stopped respecting the grab*, but now icies have built their grab punish back up and people have to respect it again. That tells me that for the most part icies development has been around getting their grabs as close to wobbling again as possible.

[@chaticon4961]

@@nickq8093 But he also said that they've been developing better matchup-specific gameplans as well as general fundamentals improvements at around 27:50. That would definitely carry over if they got wobbling back.