Should You Disconnect the Neutral Wire on Generators

[@samballard9026]

You explained it the best way I personally have witnessed. Excellent job keep it up DOC .

[@robturner7853]

Back to A type Video that I 1st watched about pressure washers from Doc!!! Had no idea you did lawn stuff too!!!! yrs have passed since and Still relevant content!! Thx Brother...

[@OUFan2]

It would be nice if the manufacture would put a switch on the generator, that you could switch from bonded to non-bonded. I know people would mess up when using this switch, but it would be nice. Since I was an electrical contractor for 45 years, I think I will do this myself. Good video.

[@AlissaGrieves]

Can you share the details on what switch you would buy and hook up? Assuming I can get a 30amp or 50amp switch and just keep it grounded but go between the jumper wire and its other unmarked connection

[@OUFan2]

@@AlissaGrieves I am sorry I can't tell you how to do this project, because it would make me liable. Since such a switch doesn't come on a generator then your warranty would be no good. There is a video online that shows how to do this, but it is not a from me. You could talk to one of your local electricians.

[@drigsby7755]

Or you can find bonding plugs online anywhere really...

[@OUFan2]

@@drigsby7755 Thanks for the information. I put one in my Amazon list after you telling me about this. Thanks again.

[@TheMalbroughs]

Some of the hybrid inverters for solar do this with a relay.

[@TheRobWay1]

This is a great explanation! I agree with the other commenters that there should be a neutral disconnect on portable generators. It could be an issue depending on how the system is connected to your house. Any bonded metal along the way will have the potential to carry some current

[@paultice610]

Excellent point great video. I have two smaller inverter generators. I have a 3500 w fully enclosed. I also have a 4550 open frame the open frame was neutral bonded I put in a toggle switch so I can bond it at the flip of a switch. If I’m using it not tied to the house I have an interlock. I just don’t run my 240 devices since it’s 120 but I can parallel them together and get 6000 W if I need to, which is more than enough to run the refrigerators heat and microwave or hot plate to cook on most the time. I just run one my 3500. I average around 12 hours on about 2 gallons of gas the 4550 holds about 3 1/2 gallons says it can do 18 hours at a quarter load haven’t tested that yet but I have a conventional 7000 W generator and it definitely uses lot more gas than the invertergenerators.

[@StirlingBanfield]

great explanation, my transfer switch uses 2 triple pole breakers to also break neutral, so i didnt have to modify my generator

[@stevecardow6963]

First I want to say Nice video and information! Comments for those who need to know: The system you explain well is called a: Separately Derived System” in the NEC code. I watched another video that was well explained. In it, he ran into a problem and burned up his electronics. He then goes on to explain what happened blaming himself for not doing it right. Checking all the connections in his panel, transfer switch, and then the problem. He isolated the ground and the neutral at the generator properly. Found that his 20-year-old extension cord, which he used without fail until he read about the neutral and ground requirement to be separated when connecting to a “Separately Derived System”. So might I further suggest to do before, what you said to do was to test the outlets within the house and to hopefully avoid his dilemma? His extension cord had a bad connection in the cord cap loose screw from the factory he claims. 1. First, check your extension cord terminations, and the continuity, should be done periodically. 2. Use your tester to confirm that there are 120 volts at each outlet on the generator. 3. Next, using a multimeter to check the voltage at your twist-lock outlet on the generator, plug before plugging in the cord at the outlet. 4. Plug the cord into the generator twist-lock outlet, before plugging it into your inlet box to the house. Check for proper voltage at the Cord Cap.

[@ripmaster896]

Hey doc lawnmaster here hey what does your old Bermuda lawn house look like now I would love to see you do a short video on it if you could. You should make another chipping green at the farm property it would be awesome.🏆

[@DLong-wp8su]

Thanks for clarification bonded vs float neutral. It seems the easy way would be add an ON/OFF switch (ON=bonded, OFF=float).

[@AlbertoRancel]

You’re the man thank you for getting to the point so fast

[@xHMProductionx]

Question I don’t see discussed, and wondering if you can clarify. Situation is that my generator is tied to the house using a 50amp plug and interlock so I would remove my bonded to make it a floating neutral. What happens if the generator is running and I need to plug an extension cord into the generator to run a vent fan for my shed. Is there any danger going this route since both the 50amp and one of the outlets are being used at the same time? Is that fan grounded?

[@HowTowithDoc]

Yes, in your ENTIRE system... there should only be ONE POINT where the neutral and ground are bonded. This includes all sub panels if you have them. If running into your PANEL... that is where this happens. Valid question on the other outlets... I do not have the answer, but to be safe I would simply run an extension cord from the house rather than direct from the gen.

[@douglasbarnhart3324]

Thanks Doc for the video.

[@joeblow5958]

You should mention that another method that works here is the installation of a manual transfer switch that switches the neutral in its setup. It limits the circuits you can use, but it won’t force you to modify your generator, which, for some manufacturers, will void the warranty.

[@jean-guybernier3292]

Totally right Sir !

[@silverspork86]

I floated my neutral because I hook it up to house via 50A inlet and interlock. I made a 30A bonding plug so I can revert back to bonded neutral easily if I want to plug appliances directly into my generator, like when I do the monthly exercising of it.

[@HowTowithDoc]

Yes... good idea with the option

[@jean-guybernier3292]

First of all. you are an excellent presentator. Very beautiful voice . Secondly. I am an electrician. These days, generator are the same with neutral bonded to its chassis. There are no problem so far if you use it as a standalone unit and not hooked to your house's main panel. If you buy a brand new generator from a store and you separate neutral from ground while the unit is still under warranty and, for example, the engine has a problem, be sure the company will most likely refuse to pay because it has been modified. The NEC/CEC says the neutral should be connected to ONLY ONE POINT and that point is in your main breaker panel powerd by the service provider. I'm near to the point !!! As the presentator said, you can remove the bond between the neutral and ground at generator and there is no benefit but you need to connect a ground from your house main panel or the main water pipe to the generator to be part of the house system as told. That way, the code is respected. If you keep the bond intact or not at the generator, never connect the generator to your main panel by feeding back a breaker such as the dryer to power your panel after having the main breaker off. To be very secure for every one, leave the generator as it is and install a 3 poles transfert switch witch will separate the house neutral and both 120 volts lines from your house to the generator and put a grounding rod or plate in earth to ground the generator. Anyways, install a transfer switch whatever the method you choose is the only way to respect the electric code, linesman and yourself. As the man said, get an electrician !

[@glennmorris659]

If you have a transfer box do you still disconnect ground ? Glenn

[@jean-guybernier3292]

No. A 3 poles transfer switch will disconnect completely your house to the generator when in use.

[@mark31383]

Do you have that link to that hurricane video? Thanks

[@GamerNxUSN]

Pretty sure that is the video he is referencing.

[@williamfry5486]

Smaller generators do not have a Neutral to Grnd bond. You have to add one yourself. I made a plug for that that is removable. I was thinking about this issue because I want to connect my 1900 watt generator to my house furnace. Do I need to run the generator ground wire all the way to the furnace? I dont think so as all parts of the furnace are already grounded. However my Hughes Autoformer will not wok unless the ground at the generator is bonded. If I don't run the ground wire all the way to the furnace then I will still need the bonding plug. Have not tried this yet!

[@jimhanty8149]

It’s my understanding you should have the neutral ground bond connected at the first point of service…if your house has “no power” then your generator IS the first point of service..your house connection ( green screw) should be disconected and let the gen set have the grnd/bond connection.

[@HowTowithDoc]

There should be only one BONDING point. That is where the ground and neutral connect. If you are using your generator STAND ALONE... (running ext cords) then leave it bonded. If running to your PANEL... then unbond at the gen. Your panel has the bonding point.

[@jasondcarney]

What’s the negative for having both the generator and the breaker panel grounded?

[@MichaelP-ns]

Multiple paths for current to flow, half could end up at the generator and half at the panel.

[@thomasdragosr.841]

Electrical code requires only one path to ground.

[@spacecoastkid5033]

Doc missed an important point. If your Main breaker panel is not the Main Disconnect, meaning there is a disconnect panel by your meter, that disconnect will have the bonded neutral, not the Main breaker panel Then, if your main panel has an interlock, which is code when you use a generator, that interlock segregates the main breaker panel from the disconnect, so you would still want the bonded neutral on the generator.

[@juanojeda5548]

I did not know about this but it cost me almost $800 it burn all of my GFCI Breakers .

[@ZombieNation274]

Un bonding the white wire, is it the same on a 9000 watt harbor freight generator?

[@HowTowithDoc]

You should be able to find the BONDING point or they might have it in the manual. You only do this if the gen is BONDED and you are running to your main panel.

[@Moondoggy1941]

I just came home from buying for fuel for my generator for the freezer and fridge to only find the freezer door was open and even a 4 pound roast was nearly defrosted and other things were in different form of defrost, closer to the door more it was defrosting over in the back and buried more frozen, any ideas of how to go forward. Thanks

[@mindaugasv85]

I didn't see the whole video, but I think you should think from perspective "what if N contact will fail in 2/3 phase system" 😉 So if your N is grounded in your panel and the generator is bonded, you can disconect power line N (before grounding point). So technically it's like "N must always be grounded and this ground from N cannot be disconnected".

[@MichaelP-ns]

I added a label to the generator to indicate it's been changed to a floating neutral in case I die so the next user knows. And I have a plug that I can plug into one of the generator's power outlets that "re-bonds" it if I need to use it standalone

[@DozIT]

Okay, if a generator hooks up to a subpanel with interlock (ground and neutral NOT bonded), you should not alter your generator?

[@HowTowithDoc]

Your panel is bonded... they all are unless you have a special SUB panel. If your generator is NOT bonded... then don't do anything. Most gens are bonded just look at the main label / front and it will say.

[@JayAlfredoG]

You forgot the third grounding scenario. Or scenario 2b. Scenario 1: You covered using a generator as an isolated system in the field. Bond Neutral to ground. Scenario 2a: You covered, using a generator as a part of an existing system. Unbond the neutral. Scenario 2b: you Didn't really cover, technically this might be scenario 1b. When you backfeed a panel it's ALWAYS scenario 2a. When you use a transfer switch SOMETIMES it's scenario 2b. SOME transfer switches may fully isolate the items supplied by the generator, then bonding and grounding is up to you to handle somewhere in the system.

[@blaiselamielle6702]

Would it be more efficient to have a battery/generator combo. Then, the generator runs at near full load only for a short period, and the battery handles the shifting load demand. Yeah, I know some generators adjust to loads, but I doubt it's as effective as a gen/battery combo.

[@cprice1]

That is what I did. My battery can run my fridge for 8 hours. I have two of them. It takes 1 hour to charge them both up with the generator. The generator can do that 10 times on a 20 lb tank of propane or 2 gallons of gas.

[@HowTowithDoc]

You'll see it in an upcoming video

[@adamghazal9204]

Thanks Doc

[@avflyguy]

My only issue with this endless debate of Bonded neutral and Floating Neutral just won't ever go away. I have a 2500 watt inverter generator with a *_floating neutral_* that I use to run my natural gas furnace via an extension cord in emergencies. Have seen numerous videos on this topic. Consensus says a gas furnace will do a partial startup until and/or before the hot ignitor comes on. If it does *not* see a case grounded wire from furnace to generator, the gas valve will *not* turn on until it sees a ground (forget neutral wire- all must see the neutral). I used a three prong plug where the round ground terminal and the Neutral terminal are tied together. Thus, in essence, I've just created a 'bond' with ground and neutral. Then, plug that into any 120v socket on the generator and the furnace kicks on immediately. First comes the inducer fan, followed 10 seconds or so later the Ignitor comes on, and lastly the buners ignite and circulation fans several seonds later. SO, saying a neutral wire isn't needed isn't true.

[@RM.-_-.]

Do I need to ground it if I'm just using it with an extension cord?

[@ervinlucas38]

What does it hurt, the generator or the home?

[@mainstreamiscool]

Hi Doc, what is that plastic bin called?

[@HowTowithDoc]

This is the one we ordered but there are others. amzn.to/4dWwkwK We like the lift roof with assist hinges.

[@mainstreamiscool]

@@HowTowithDoc Thank you!

[@thomasdragosr.841]

I don’t like the idea of a floating neutral in case the generator is used independent of the home. My Ryobi generator has a ground lug on the generator casing. I drove an 8 ft. ground rod which I connect to the lug. I did not land the ground wire that comes from my home distribution panel inside my 30amp receptacle. This does the same thing as lifting the neutral wire in the generator. After all of that, tomorrow I am having a Kohler 20kw generator installed. Runs on natural gas and will power everything in the house. I know you see “Generac” everywhere but I recommend Kohler.

[@MichaelP-ns]

Ground rod at the generator has nothing to do with the problem with multiple neutral bonds. In fact, adding a ground rod actually isn't recommended when using it attached to your house's system, only if it's not connected to the house's ground when in operation. If you're worried about using it as a standalone generator, get a neutral bonding plug that bonds neutral to ground when you plug it into one of the generator's outlets

[@supersawyer358]

Whats the issue if the generator is bonded and you plug into your panel box ?

[@AuldHowker]

you seem to have found the only Generator that does not have a floating neutral.. Honda, Firman Westinghouse all have floating neutral so you dont need to separate ground/neutral. In fact you need to buy a ground to neutral adapter if you furnace need a ground neutral bond to run. Lots of furnaces now heed Ground-Neutral bonded.

[@HowTowithDoc]

Most FRAMED generators are BONDED. I even went to the Westinghouse website and every one I pulled up was bonded to the frame. It will show the symbol on the front as well. westinghouseoutdoorpower.com/blogs/westinghouse-blog/float-the-neutral-wpro8500-wpro12000-wgen12000

[@bobk469]

My Wen 1800W generator has a frame and was NOT bonded out of the box. I bonded the neutral to the ground and added a label to indicate. I only use the generator with an extension cord.

[@AuldHowker]

@ bonded to the frame yes but not to neutral. You are not understanding the difference between ground neutral bonding & ground bonding to the frame totally different. Of course all gennys have frame bonding that’s code but they ALL have a floating neutral so you can use connected to a transfer switch you use your home ground/ neutral. Is you bond your ground & neutral then connect to transfer switch you have 2 neutral paths. Not safe.

[@GoldSeals]

Ok,I think I follow you now about removing the neutral bond at the generator..The neutral itself still goes from the generator cord at the generator to the panel..Whew,I thought you meant disconnecting the white neutral wire that goes to the cord,which would mean you would only have 220 volts at the panel without the neutral there.

[@HowTowithDoc]

It's only on the gen itself. There is one point where the two connect.

[@NickConteSC]

My electrician ran a wire from my panel in the house to the frame of the generator. I assumed that was a ground wire. Is this ok?

[@HowTowithDoc]

I've never heard of that... I might have someone else come look at that.

[@SRCardow1]

Yes that not right ​@@HowTowithDoc

[@efraingonzalez4408]

What happens if I don’t unbond my inverter and plug it into my house? ie leave it neutral bonded and use my 50amp interlock kit to power up the house, what can actually happen?

[@wingloading]

I leave my generator bonding in place but when connecting to the home ONLY connect the neutral. Not connecting the ground isolates the generators bonding from the home's.

[@takeitwithyou4391]

Please do not do this. Please talk to an electrician. "Not connecting the ground isolates the generators bonding from the home's" ALSO removes the direct ground fault path back to the source of power (the generator). This is a dangerous setup. Why? When some device in the house, let's say the furnace, has an electrical issue and energizes it's frame there is no EASY grounding conductor path back to the generator. Electrons WILL be trying to get back to the generator through the BONDED neutral at the main panel. But, probably not enough electrons will be able to travel through ANY and ALL paths back to the generator to trip its breaker. This is the danger. Somebody unknowingly touches the frame of the furnace creating a NEW path back through themselves which can kill/injure/shock. Consider yourself lucky if you only feel a strange tingle. Experienced electricians (old timers, still living) have described instances of this tingle situation to me. No wonder electricians wear appropriate gloves these days when working on "dead" equipment.

[@HowTowithDoc]

I agree

[@wingloading]

@@takeitwithyou4391 Help me understand. In a furnace fault where the current finds its way back via its ground will then travel through the panel bonding and subsequently the neutral (of adequate load) to the generator. A dead short should normally trip the panel breaker first. How would extending the grounding in the panel to the generator that's not bonded be safer?

[@wingloading]

@@HowTowithDoc From DuroMax generators manual...Note: If the generator is connected to a home, then it won't be necessary to attach the separate grounding wire and you can opt to use your home ground instead.Please see a certified electrician for further options with grounding your generator.

[@takeitwithyou4391]

​@@wingloading I was about to reply to your response from about a day ago (I will do that soon) when I saw this post. I quickly checked a few DuroMax generator manuals. I saw that this same "Note" you quoted was in all of these manuals REGARDLESS of whether or not the Neutral was bonded on that particular generator. And, btw, you left out the following which comes after what you quoted: "WARNING: Failure to properly ground the generator can result in electrocution." Now, this warning was appropriate for the entire section or "Step X" of a manual but you only quoted the "Note". My wild guess here is most people will never need to do this step for their safe use of a generator. So, I will leave this Step unstated. A good rule to keep in mind when complying with manufacturers manuals is to also comply with the National Electric Code (NEC). In my mind, when there is a conflict, the code should take precedence. If somebody does not understand the code then by all means hire a licensed electrician, as you posted.

[@Fast1Guy]

Just to add a quick note. If you use a separate manual transfer switch generator panel, some break the 2 hots and the neutral creating a separately derived system for the generator and then requires a bonded neutral and the generator grounded. This is the system I have and prefer it as I can use the generator for camping without messing with the bonding.

[@ttaylor6185]

My new Champion portable generator came with a floating neutral from the factory. Most Champions do. I understand some other manufacturers do the same. It’s important to understand what you’re working with before making changes. You’re wrong in saying that “99.9%” of generators are bonded neutral by default.

[@ronhawkins8604]

Watched this and then decided I needed to know. As with almost everything on earth the answer is "it depends". My generator connects to a disconnect box at the power pole that contains a 200a breaker for commercial power and a 50a for the generator. The generator is bonded but I've run this several times with no issues so I had to find out more. Called The manufacturer, Wen and their technician said in that case it is not an issue. If the generator was feeding into the main cb panel for the home or some other sub panel after the power company input then it must be floating on the generator. He said I could disconnect the bond in the generator but is not necessary in my installation. Go figure

[@HowTowithDoc]

Your input is prior to the cb panel which is unusual. In that case I would have an electrician check it. The main issue will be multi PATHS which can throw GFCI switches. If you don't have issues I would leave it.

[@dennisheflin2680]

I’ve never done this to my generator, why is this necessary? If you mentioned it I missed

[@milesmccarty1005]

Why not install a key type switch..... Best of both worlds.

[@HowTowithDoc]

Yes, there are vids out there about doing that

Any change in the generators wiring is not covered under insurance

[@HowTowithDoc]

The manufacturer SAYS TO do it.... FYI.

[@avguytx4361]

Not true whatsoever. Most even show how to do it. Not sure where you come up with the bad info but, don't.

[@cgreever1]

I need to disconnect the ground to make my F150 lightning. Instead of modifying the inlet box or generator, why not create a cord?

[@cgreever1]

or better yet, a neutral bonding plug.

[@aussie2uGA]

Yep, the tesla complains too unless it sees a neutral bonding plug.

[@vanderpoolfarmsl.l.c.9983]

Connect the neutral wire to a selector switch.

[@bobmercer1816]

The bond between the Neutral and the Ground needs to be split, it gets connected together in the panel.

[@thebassclef007]

99% of generator are NOT shipped with a bonded neutral. Most open frame generators are bonded, but many if not most inverter generators are floating neutral from the factory.

[@avguytx4361]

I'm not sure about "99%" as there are a great many that come as floating neutral and they will typically say right there by the outlets. If they are bonded, most are easy enough to change over by dropping the ground off the neutral and companies supply that info. Larger open frame generators tare pretty easy by removing the end where the stator is and access that wiring to pull that single wire off.

[@HowTowithDoc]

There will be label on the front... or it will say in the manual

[@rafaelo2215]

you should only run current from hot to neutral not from ground to neutral ... if you disconnect the neutral then you are running from hot to ground making the chassis hot and possibly killing you and you are not running to sources at the same time ... if you do so you will blow your generator ... a bond neutral is needed for your protection ... if there is a short in the house the breaker will trip in the house and if there is a short in the generator the breaker of the generator will trip ... what you need to do is not connect the ground wire from the generator to the house nor to the earth

[@avguytx4361]

Sooo....you're way of thinking is not float the neutral on a generator so there's only one point of bonding on the house wiring once tied in with the power inlet? And leave it bonded? I'll pass on that.

[@rafaelo2215]

@@avguytx4361 one bond that is grounded to earth... i prefer to leave the ground in the generator incase there is a short in the generator but not connected to the house ... if you have a short in the house then it will pass thru ground and neutral and trip ... by the way every socket in the house has a reading from ground to neutral as 0v and from ground to hot as 120v because of the bond in the main breaker box ... thr generator is just an alternative to the main electrical grid ... the main electrical grin only bring 2 hot and a neutral so do the same to the generator in the transfer switch ... 2 hot and the neutral and no ground in the transfer switch but leave the bond in the generator so you will not get shock if there is a short in the generator

[@HowTowithDoc]

You are confused... you are not DISCONNECTING it... You are simply UNBONDING at the gen if you are running to your PANEL which already has the bond. This is actually shown on most manf websites.

[@avguytx4361]

@ Good luck with that. I ran that by our city electrician and he laughed.

[@rafaelo2215]

@@HowTowithDoc why would you unbound it if it keep you safe? as long as you don't ground the generator ground to the main breaker box or the earth then you only have one ground ... it does not make sence to unbound the ground from the neutral in the generator just to ground it to the main breaker box

[@CJRock-xn5qf]

Free advice on the internet is rarely accurate and this is another example.

[@turbodog1542]

What does that mean?

[@boford6742]

Wouldn't it be much easier to alter the pigtail rather than the generator?

There should be no alterations needed if your using an interlock switch

[@HowTowithDoc]

Not true.... that's WHEN you need to make the change. You DON'T make the change if using as a stand alone. Your PANEL already has the bonding.

[@socrates2706]

These generators suck up a LOT of propane. I hook up to natural gas, but always have a supply of propane and gasoline in reserve in case the natural gas lines lose pressure for a variety of reasons. Also, I never rely on only one generator.

[@HowTowithDoc]

Correct... like WATER... natural gas compressor stations need power to work long term.

[@socrates2706]

@@HowTowithDoc And uprooted trees can damage the lines. Also, too many generators running simultaneously in a common area can reduce pressure to the point of fuel starvation.

[@jasondrummond9196]

But couldn't i just not wire the neutral into my L14 plug so that when it's connected to the generator there's no neutral to begin with?

[@HowTowithDoc]

No, neutral wire is part of the PATH

[@wingloading]

Actually just not wire the ground from the generator. You can then leave its bond in place since it will remain isolated from the home's bonding.

[@greglyons2402]

@@HowTowithDoc Yes if you're feeding your home with it disconnecting it from inside the generator or the plug or the breaker box it doesn't matter where you break the connection at as long as its broken

[@greglyons2402]

assuming you're feeding with 220

[@spresc2180]

This begs the question of why then do all connecting cords which connect your portable generator to your service panel (transfer switch) have a neutral wire within the cord. I watched 2 video’s on This Old House on connecting a portable generator to a house panel and neither mentioned the need to disconnect the generators neutral wire and neither does the DeWalt manual for my unit. I suspect this is a so called wives tale making the rounds.

[@HowTowithDoc]

If you don't and your connection feeds into you main panel, you'll have TWO PATHS. By code there should only be ONE connection between N and G. Plenty of electricians explaining this issue.

[@greglyons2402]

no need to go through all that just don't hook the neutral wire up in your breaker box, will run your home and safe to use elsewhere

[@greglyons2402]

assuming you're feeding your home with 220

[@greglyons2402]

assuming you're feeding your home with 220

[@TheViking34482]

Why can't you just disconnect the neutral wire on the plug

[@salifuharuna6849]

Honda EU7000iS 0.3 gal/hr. Whisper quiet and Pricy!

[@lmdetect]

I'll bet I've seen 50 videos on how to hook a generator up to a home. How come no one is talking about this neutral wire? Weird.

[@HowTowithDoc]

Just google it... there are over 100 videos talking about floating neutral on generators

[@lmdetect]

Thank you sir. I appreciate your vids. A lot of useful info. ​@HowTowithDoc

[@raulsanchez4493]

If you have natural gas piped in you should be able to run your generator all the time

[@HowTowithDoc]

Until the compressor stations loose power. We plan long term.

[@BOB12349307]

remove the green wire do not remove neutral

[@johnclyne6350]

Or do one better. Hire an electrician like I did. That takes the guess work out of it. If you don’t & you make a mistake? You could damage your home or appliances.