What is a Floating Neutral Generator?

[@christopherlawler3033]

A bonded neutral power generator is required by code when you have a "separately derived electrical system" where the power transfer switch also breaks the power grid neutral conductor - thus also breaking electrical continuity between the power neutral and the earthing electrode system. In my two years of deployment in Iraq some 15 years ago... we derived all of our electrical power from large diesel generator sets (< 1 megawatt typical) using European mains voltages & frequencies (3-phase 415/240 @ 50~Hz) Where all transfer switching between generator sets used 4-pole transfer switching that switched all 3 phases as well as the neutral... all generators had bonding jumpers installed across the neutral and the earthing conductors/electrodes... as such, this is what is commonly referred to as a "separately derived system" as the neutrals are separately derived and isolated from each energy source by means of the transfer switch. In my experience, generators with floating neutrals are both dangerous and deadly - as the likelihood of fault currents present will cause the shorted phase to drop to zero, whereas the solidly connected neutral across the entire installation will have a line voltage potential on it to ground or earth... the remaining phases will then have an elevated voltage potential in reference to ground or earth... in a 3-phase system; that would mean a voltage potential that is 1.732x the typical line voltage from phase to earth under abnormal mains line fault circumstances. Under this same condition though, all 3 phases will have what appears to be a "normal" line voltage reading between all phases to neutral - but not to earth or ground. It is still the best and the safest practice to bond the neutral to the frame of the generator set and also ensure that the generator set is also effectively grounded too. Your incoming utility service is only served with phases & neutral conductors - and no earthing or grounding conductor - as the neutral conductor of the service feeder is bonded twice - once on each end of the service feeder - on the utility side at the power transformer - and at the customer side - at the service entrance (meter and/or disconnect switch or main switchboard/panelboard or load center, where the main circuit breaker or disconnecting means exists... however - when designing or installing a provision for an auxiliary power source (such as a generator for emergency power) a transfer switch is recommended for complete isolation from the grid to prevent the dangerous condition of backfeeding the utility - and placing utility workers in danger upstream that are working on the power lines, as well as creating dangerous voltage potentials upon restoration of grid power after a power outage. The incorporation of a power transfer switch or an approved or listed circuit breaker interlocking mechanism is also required by the National Electrical Code (NFPA-70) to ensure safety and integrity of the installation. Separately derived neutrals are best by far - but requires a 3-pole (or a 4-pole for 3-phase-4-wire service) double-throw manual safety switch for typical 120/240 single-phase 3-wire electrical services, and they're more expensive than their 2-pole counterparts, of which will only offer a solidly connected neutral termination that is not separately derived or offering total isolation from the power grid during an outage. Ungrounded 3-phase-3-wire "delta" systems where the electrical system is intentionally ungrounded would be the exception to having a generator set without any grounding performed... although generator sets with 3-phase delta configured alternators are extremely rare... typically in a hospital setting - where a possible use for an ungrounded 480-volt, 3-wire "delta" service is utilized could use a large "WYE" to "DELTA" isolation power transformer installed between a generator set with a 3-phase-4-wire WYE alternator and the transfer switch for the ungrounded 480-volt "DELTA" electrical system. 3-phase generator sets are typically rated in kVA with a calculated power factor of 0.8 or 80%. Power transformers are also rated in kVA. 120/240v generator sets are typically rated in kW - whereas the power factor is 1.0 or 100%.

[@buckaroundandfindout]

Yep.

[@riverflyswatter]

dustin buck ask him ,”what time is it?” I dare ya. Hahaha

[@ComplexOne]

I swear i've seen this in a book/web somewhere before...

[@jonwikstrom5564]

I like you're vast knowledge BUT it's over my head thank you

[@craigsetzer9726]

In single phase does everything you mentioned above apply?

[@thomasprendergast6315]

Kid, I'm an old timer. Your little presentation is one of the best demonstrations of this situation that I've ever seen. Well done and thank you

[@AXNJXN1]

Electrical Knowledge: 10/10. Surrounding beauty of your house and property: 14/10.

[@mattphillips1810]

I worked in the maintenance dept. of a hospital for 15 years. Working on all types of medical equipment. I have been to numerous service schools during that time. I just wanted to say that your videos and the way you explain things are better than any high priced service school that I ever attended. Keep up the good work!

[@HongNguyen-lj5ym]

Of all the videos addressing the bonded versus floating neutral topic, yours is the most concise, to the point, and easy to understand. Translating knowledge into something that others can comprehend is not easy. Teaching is a skill, and you're a good teacher, Ben. Thanks.

[@darrelfuhrman8217]

Ben I have a Champion 3500 watt floating ground generator. Using extension cords to power up my furnace, it will run the fan, but has red lights on the power processor. A local electrician had me drive a ground rod for the generator, and a ground rod for the LP furnace. Furnace still would not make the LP light. Another electrician told me to take a ground 15 amp plug in, take 6” of #18 green wire. Connect 1 end of the wire to the silver- neutral prong, the other end to the ground prong. Plug it into the 120 volt plug in on the generator. Now the generator runs my LP furnace! Hello from north east Montana. 10 miles from the Canadian border.

[@jenardbolt123]

I needed a unit kzbin.infoUgkxOTeIs0vv4_9B5hsmnLsk9r930uDQLu_Y that I could store in my home when I wasn't running, so it being light and running on propane were key requirements. I can store the propane tank/bottle outside yet store the generator in my home when it's not in use as I will never put any gas in the engine. It is so light, and on echo mode, which I expect is how it will be used most of the time, it is pretty darned quiet (certainly compared to all the generators I hear in my neighborhood after each power outage).Many of the previous reviews had me concerned that it would be difficult to start on propane, but I have to say, I had absolutely no problem at all. I primed it first using the choke...3 pulls, heard the engine want to start, flipped it to propane, and one more pull and she started. I ran it for 2 hours the first time and plugged it in my fridge. And when I was done, I put the propane tank away and carried the generator to my basement for next time.I could not be happier.

[@Freedomjustice-DC]

As an electrician of 30 plus years, you did an amazing job. Although people with little to no understanding of electrical systems may find it a bit frightening

[@43mackmobile]

And why any novice should not practice what this fellow preaches, if you don't know don't touch it.

[@danburch9989]

If you're going to use a generator as a stand alone power source at a campsite or construction site independent of grid power, you'd want your generator's neutral and ground bonded together. If you're going to use the generator as a backup power source for your home through a transfer switch (required), the generator would not be bonded internally. You'd run separate neutral and bond to the home's neutral and ground buss bars.

[@scoutskills]

^thits

[@JohnRoesner]

@@scoutskills But if you are attaching your generator to a transfer panel, and that transfer panel is a sub panel, sub panels don't have the bonding in them, as its your main panel that does. How should it be wired up then?

[@scoutskills]

@@JohnRoesner Only the main panel neutral and ground are bonded. The ground at the main panel is then tied to the earth to a stake in the ground or sometimes the water main pipe. The main panel has a high current two pole breaker for feeding the sub panel and the sub panel feeds the critical loads. In between the main panel and the sub panel is a two pole (DPDT) transfer switch. The generator and the sub panel have the bonding wires removed. The main panel earth ground is the ground for everything.

[@CJforUSA]

does ^thits mean cheap goods?? I know the slang meaning of 'thot' but seriously, I don't know what you meant by your reply '^thits'? Just curious.

[@jasonjayalap]

@@CJforUSA ^ is an up-arrow and thits is mispelling “this”. He means “what’s written above is true”

[@rodneypidcock6903]

You earned another subscriber. I've heard countless electricians and electrical engineers explain this very thing, but none of them really made me wrap my head around it the way you did. As you pointed out, this is a pretty confusing topic. Great video, Ben. Thanks!!

[@stephenwalling5878]

I am a journeyman electrician and journeyman marine electrician but I like to watch how some else explains and do things, so that I learn something new.

[@dalewcjr]

I’m an Electrical Contractor just like to say you did a great job on the video.

[@dalependleton6420]

This is what I call a "working demonstration". Very nicely done. Clear enough so non-technical people can understand. You would make a great teacher!

[@adhambarghi]

I rarely add comments, but this was a great video for such a challenging subject. Thank you for taking the time to explain. I would have really enjoyed seeing this video 3 months ago when I installed a Reliance Controls 10 Circuit 30Amp Generator Transfer Switch and bought a Westinghouse 6500 Watt Gas/Propane Bonded Generator. After many days of research and some hair loss, I went ahead and switched the generator over to a Floating Neutral and labeled generator for others to be aware. This video confirms my research. Keep up the good work and sharing the knowledge.

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

I think what matters is how the switching is done. Some transfer switches also switch the neutral in which case you would want the generator to remain bonded. An easy way to check would be to see if there is continuity between the neutral and ground on the generator cord before plugging it into the generator. I need to learn more about it but something Mike Holt said the other day made it sound like some types of transfer switches allow for the generator neutral to remain bonded.

[@adhambarghi]

​@@BenjaminSahlstrom That is correct, some transfer switches automatically switch the neutral and in that case you want to have your generator set up with a bonded neutral. I called the Reliance manufacture and my transfer switch works with a floating neutral on the generator. I only use this generator for house power only and it is labeled "Floating Neutral". I also added a label "Generator for House Power Only" because when I took a survey NO one knew what "Floating Neutral" meant.

[@bigpardner]

@@BenjaminSahlstrom Is it safe to say that the generator should always be bonded, but only in one place? Although at 25:50 didn't you do just that, bond in two places?

[@fyuecd2]

@@adhambarghi I would think if you were using this for house power only you would want your generator to be bonded. If a metal frame appliance shorts to ground inside your house the breaker on the generator will not trip.

[@adhambarghi]

@@fyuecd2 The transfer switch box will trip a breaker for the shorted metal frame appliance in our example. Hope this helps.

[@ronhawkins8604]

I know this is an old video but i just watched it today. All the talk about bonding got me wanting to learn more. I learned a long time ago the answer to almost every question is "it depends". I'm this case you are correct at the end saying basically it's not a big deal in this application. I called wen, my gen manufacturer to get the scoop. My generator goes to a 50a disconnect at the main power at the pole. I've run it several times with no issues. The Gen is bonded. The technical support person told me it won't really matter in this situation. I can if i want remove the bond but it isn't a problem. If it was feeding the main cb panel in the house or really any sub panel or must be floating. Sorry if it sounds like i didn't believe you, i just go by the trust but verify motto. Thank you so much for an easy to follow and understand explanation and demonstration.

[@BBQPitmaster626]

Should have 1 million subscribers. You are so knowledgeable. I feel like maybe because you're so young that maybe some old timers don't take you serious enough, but little do they know how real intelligent you are.

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

Thanks! Yeah, people would always ask me if I was still in high school while I was doing service calls! Hasn't happened for a couple of years though now. Must be my bald spot. :)

[@billbezzant3033]

So much more scenic than the usual basement or garage breaker box video, and the light doesn't die out when the main breaker is switched off!

[@erichill5679]

Good video. I will mention that a lot of if not most inverter generators use a floating neutral and are frequently used to power an RV. The RV also has a floating neutral and gets it neutral to ground bond through the RV park’s pedestal but a floating neutral generator will work fine. The electrons have to flow from the hot lead back to the neutral and vice versa for AC power. So if there is no earth (ground) bond to neutral you should find no difference of potential between the hot lead or neutral to ground so standing on the ground and touching the hot lead should not electrocute you. The problem would be if there were another neutral to ground or hot to ground somewhere else then you could get zapped when touching either lead while in contact with ground. Same with using an old metal cased drill on an extension cord on such a generator. If an internal short from hot to case happens there is still no source tied to ground so no difference of potential between the drill case and ground just case to neutral would cause current to flow so you should be ok. A three prong plug with the ground lead connected to the case and the ground lead actually connected to ground would be best. Now days I wouldn’t use a metal cased tool without a three prong plug. A plastic double insulated tool doesn’t need a ground pin. The floating neutral generator would operate, safety wise, similar to a battery operated drill. Neither terminal of the battery is going to ground so there is no voltage measured from either terminal to ground. So if you’re on the ground and touch either lead nothing happens. For another opinion: www.rvtravel.com/how-generator-neutral-ground-bonding-for-an-rv-works/

[@tsmall07]

I'm a home inspector with 7 years experience and a degree in building construction. I know a decent amount about electricity, but I'm no electrician. I come to your videos to gain a greater understanding of these things. Keep it up!

[@The_Happy_Aviation_Enthusiast]

Don’t forget about the generator safety rules: Always make sure you follow all the generator safety rules whenever you use your portable generator. This is only a reminder. Generators can be dangerous if not used carefully. Every year, hundreds of people die or get injured when using portable generators due to carbon monoxide poisoning and electrocution. Make sure you are using your generator carefully and keeping others safe as well. There is something very serious that everyone should always be aware of when using generators. Some people do run their generator indoors which is not safe and that increases the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning which can cause death of family and you. Some people run their generator in wet conditions which can electrocute them. Please remember that you should never run your generator indoors. Remember that carbon monoxide is an odorless and colorless gas that you cannot see or smell. Carbon monoxide is a silent killer. Keep that in mind. Make sure your generator is 15-20 feet away from your house and away from doors, windows, and vents. Never use your generator in your porch too. Having a carbon monoxide detector is very important against generator safety. Some people also allow children to go near the portable generator which could pose risks. We need to keep an eye on our children making sure that they are not near the portable generator so they won’t get electrocuted or burned by the generator which is dangerous. A locking enclosure also keeps kids safe. A generator shed might look like a tempting place to explore, or take cover during a game of hide and seek, but a generator is a dangerous piece of equipment that can cause injury. It says on the manual that we should also keep children away at all times from the portable generator to avoid injuries. Please do not allow a child or unqualified people to operate the portable generator. It is important to keep your children safe especially little ones. The portable generator can be hot during an operation. Just because some manuals missed what should be listed doesn’t mean it’s safe to do. Always follow the generator safety rules when using portable generators. Generators pose electrical risks. If you need to use your generator during wet weather, you need a generator tent to protect your generator from getting wet. Don’t let your generator get wet. Keep your generator dry and before using your generator, please make sure your hands and your generator is dry. Do not wear loose clothing when operating the generator. Everything that is said on the generator’s operating manual should not be ignored. Never smoke cigarettes near the generator. Please keep flammable things away from the generator. Never overload your generator too. Your generator can catch fire. Never ever try to plug a generator cord into a wall outlet to avoid back feeding. Back feeding your generator is dangerous. Always turn on your generator first before plugging in appliances and shut off the appliances before turning your generator off. Use a heavy duty cord for your generator and the cord should not be worn out. All the instructions should be followed carefully. Never refuel your generator while it’s running. It can cause fire if fuel spills while your generator is hot. You should turn off your generator and let it cool off before refueling it. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important. This is only a reminder for everyone’s safety of using generators. Make sure your generator is properly grounded. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important against the safety rules. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f2LNhWZ3g6qBrKs and here is a video more about keeping others safe when using generators and also about our family’s safety. It’s important to keep our little children safe as well. Make sure your little children are kept away from the generator at all times especially when it’s running. Hope this helps.

[@ianmiles2505]

@@The_Happy_Aviation_Enthusiast this was generous advice.

[@geoffroberts4267]

The neutrals on commercial vessels are always floating, this ensures that essential equipment will continue to operate. The switchboards have a three lamp system to identify ground faults. Safety ground is the ships hull..

[@JasonW.]

Is this also done to also keep electrolytic effects down?

[@raymondgarafano8604]

I take it that vessels use a 3 phase system?

[@62chevrolet]

Of course they’re floating, or it wouldn’t be a boat :p

[@mkrawats]

Interesting! Why neutral floating on commercial vessels? From what I have learned so far, the abyc standards recommend bonding neutral to ground when disconnected from shore power and running generator or inverter.

[@lorenzo42p]

a boat is itself a floating ground, never thought about it before. but being serious, what we're talking about is the generator itself having a floating ground. the boat/vessel I would assume has a bonded ground somewhere in the electrical system. I also assume there is a switch of some kind to unbond the neutral when connecting to shore power.

[@truthseeker1328]

Excellent explanation not only about the difference between floating and bonded portable generators but the electrical safety reasons and now you've earned yourself a new subscriber. Bingo!! "The electrons want to return to the SOURCE, ground really has nothing to do with it." @ 13:30. As a journeyman electricain and electrical safety instructor, you'll be amazed how many electricians, technicians and even electrical engineers have been incorrectly taught that "current always wants to go to ground" then magically disappears. This is why 'grounding' and 'bonding' while related, are two distinctly different things. Excellent example of what it means for the generator's neutral to be bonded (not grounded) to the generator's frame @ 14:55. Bonding the neutral to the frame of a portable generator provides the exact same function as the Main Bonding Jumper (MBJ) or System Bonding Jumper (sometimes called Neutral Bonding Screw inside a service rated panel) @20:00 that's required by the NEC, article 250.28. And why the 'hot or phase' wires, (red, black, etc.) is called the "ungrounded conductor" which carries current to the load, the 'neutral' (white or grey) is called the "grounded conductor" which carries the current from the load back to the source and the green or bare wire is the "equipment grounding conductor" (EGC) which should never carry any current other than during a fault. The EGC provides the low impedance path for fault current to return back to the source to promptly trip your overcurrent protection device (OCPD), i.e. circuit breaker or fuse. In other words the grounded and ungrounded conductors are the active parts of the circuit while the EGC is your safety insurance policy. Getting back to portable generators. You also did a superb job explaining about the requirement for the interlocked circuit breaker from the generator to the panel. You can also use it or a transfer switch to isolate the generator from the utility circuit. Too many linemen have been injured and killed because someone was powering their home during a power outage with a generator that backfed the utility transformer. And this is where a floating neutral generator is required to be used because using a bonded to frame generator here results in dangerous current flowing on the EGC. You showed 1.28 amps on the EGC @ 26:30. Many people probably don't think less than an amp and a half of current is very dangerous but if we recall it only takes around 16mA to cause muscles to 'freeze up' and 30 to 60 mA for ventricular fibrillation to occur, then 1.28 A is very deadly. The other safety challenge when using stand alone portable generators with floating neutrals, is how it prevents GFCI's from tripping during a ground fault, just like your circuit breaker example. Class A GFCIs are supposed to trip somewhere between 4 to 6 mA, well below the ventricular fibrillation threshold. So using the built in GFCI outlets in the generator or a portable plug in GFCI device will only provide you with a false sense of security that you're protected by the GFCI. While OSHA only has authority over workplace safety and health, some of the electrical safety regulations pursuant to 29CFR part 1910 or 1926 can help you remain safe when using portable generators at home. OSHA understands the importance for the neutral bonding to the frame for people safety that they have it mandated in at least four standards that I know of. So if you're using portable generators in the workplace or construction site, please be aware, a savvy OSHA compliance officer will check your generators and issue citations. But thank him, because while a citation will cost you money, he may just saved a worker's life. Check out the following OSHA regulations for more portable generator safety information: 1910.304(g)(3) www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.304 1919.269(i)(3) www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.269 1926.404(f)(3) www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1926/1926.404 1926.956(c) www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1926/1926.956

[@Oxyflight650]

I watched hours of videos and no one explained how to use a generator as a back up using interlock! Thank you Ben! Happy Fathers Day

[@Bassguitarist1985]

Maybe the best video on youtube explaining bonded versus floating neutral generator. I had an "master electrician" tell me that a bonded or floating neutral generator does not matter, all that does is the first means of disconnect needs to be bonded. I said no if you use a 3 pole transfer switch where it switches the neutral as well as the hots, the generator must be bonded with a ground rod attached, and he flat out said no. I know the research I've done and your video further reinforces things. "Everyone is an expert, the trick is to talk to the right expert! - anon

[@johnbarry8185]

Disregard my last comment. I didn't see all the video, before I made my comment. Sorry. You do a pretty good job, at something that people can USE. Keep up the good work.

[@MrWzeljunior]

This video is right on time. Ben is a true guru.

[@mikeerickson2412]

That’s the best explanation I’ve seen on why we don’t want a floating ground Or non-bonded generator I have made up bonding plugs for mine

[@earlhouse4458]

As a journeyman electrician of 24 years, I wou like to commend you for trying to educate the public to the dangers of a floating neutral! Good job young man!

[@comingtofull-ageinchrist6736]

I worked for a company as an apprentice years ago and we done a lot of Generac Automatic Standby Generators for whole house operation, and one county made us drive a ground rod for these 16kw, 17kw,20kw and 22kw generators and another would make us disconnect the ground rod from the generator. When we first started installing these generators, there was a mechanical lug on the back at the bottom of the outside casing, over time, a couple of years down the road, Generac removed the mechanical grounding lug, and it is my understanding that Mike Holt played a role in that decision. All it is essentially doing is giving lightning a path to fry the circuit board on the generator and transfer switch. I think what you done essentially proved that true when you drove the ground rod. It done nothing at all to help provide a path for a fault current to trip a breaker! I thought this was a great video, and I think there is a lot of confusion on grounding and bonding for sure!

[@43mackmobile]

Grounding is all about "potential" path to earth. Potential makes everything neutral.

[@comingtofull-ageinchrist6736]

@ that’s not what it’s all about! Potential voltage difference has to do with bonding! It assures that a person isn’t shocked because of any voltage difference metal parts! Bonding and grounding have to do with tripping a circuit breaker as fast as possible to avoid damage to personnel and equipment!

[@Phat4040]

You seriously saved my ass with this video; had I not just installed a new furnace, I would never have known that my generator hasn’t been grounded since I bought it...extremely frustrating, I was getting a Hot/Neu REV on my ground fault tester, it was actually flickering both sides of the tester. I showed your video to the repair guy for Ryobi, he didn’t have a clue either. He said these are dangerous to use with extension cords and was surprised that none of the books mention this from any manufacturer. In my opinion there should be a toggle switch to be able to use bonded or otherwise, as well as a clear explanation as to why you need bonded or floating. When my warranty is up, I am installing a toggle for this. Thanks for making this video, I did purchase one of those plugs from your link... Curious though, does just doing one plug fix all the plugs. The Ryobi dude said one should do it because they are all hooked together, but I thought I would ask. I have a Ryobi 4000 inverter. ROCK ON!

[@Phat4040]

UPDATE: I could not believe that this caused my generator failure. I bought the same generator and plugged it into the new generator and it worked perfectly. There must have been an internal issue with my other generator. It’s off to the shop to figure out what happened to it...My GMVC80 Goodman is working perfectly now as well as everything is grounded...THANK YOU! Your advice was sound and I now think that something was wrong with the other generator that the plug exposed. THIS METHOD YOU HAVE POSTED IS SOUND AND WORKS PERFECTLY. ------------------- I guess my praise was too soon. I heard a snap sound when I tried the plug recommended, and I heard a snap. And the engine kept running but slowed down 20% from idle. None of the circuit breakers snapped, but now there is no power from any plug and the engine knocks hard when I try to start it. 😕 Looks like this turned my generator into a paperweight. Very upset right now...I checked the plug to be sure it’s wired right and it is...no idea what happened. I was so convinced this was going to solve my issue, and now my inverter won’t start at all. Something seriously didn’t work well...

[@travelstothemiddleofnowhere]

Don't want to burst everyone's bubble but almost all portable generators(under 5000watt) are made in china, including honda and champion. And they all have floating neutrals, including honda and champion. The Duromax manual tells you to ground to either your house or metal rod staked in the ground. Everything Ben's saying about the dangers are correct. Love Ben's channel I have watched all his Videos and will continue to do so.

[@anthonythompson2529]

Yes I am a electrician myself and I do find your videos interesting just explaining electricity and trying to put it into simple terms alot of people have a issue with it because they haven't had the schooling or training.

[@MrDoyle07]

This is a great presentation. I would like to suggest that you explain to the audience that we would never create a bond at a load point, such as at the receptacle. I say this because somebody out there is going to do that even while we know damm well that is a pretty bad idea. You make some very fun presentations, Ben, and I appreciate how your share and tell patience permits you to explain all this neat stuff most of us real electricians take for granted and usually just grunt and respond with, “it’s magic”, to people who ask us how it’s done. Much appreciation!

[@heroesandzeros7802]

In case you were wondering what the glass of water is for, it is not for when you get thirsty. A pitcher or bucket of water would be better. You use the water to set the 8' ground rod. This is the hydraulic method. AFTER you call JULIE to mark your utilities... Don't rupture any utility lines. Determine where you want the ground rod, usually about 18" from your foundation to clear the building's footing. Dig a 10" diameter hole about 6" deep. Stab the rod into the ground at the bottom center of the hole and pull it out. Overfill the small hole with water. Put the rod back into the hole and stab it up and down, deeper with each stab. Pull rod back out and refill with water. Repeat until rod goes down the whole 8' with one stab to within 2" of the bottom of the ground hole. A hammer is not necessary. You can push the rod the final 2" just by stepping on it. You may need more than 1 glass of water. Most codes in the U.S. require the rod to be below the ground and covered with dirt and the solid ground conductor to be ran in pvc conduit all the way to ground level to defend against lawn mowers and weed whackers. And use the correct ground clamp. Get a copy of your local codes and diagrams from city or county clerk. The ground conductor has to be wired correctly according to local codes inside the meter base. Now go get a drink of water.

[@ufartface]

i say go get a beer

[@ContantContact]

I use a fence post driver (25-30#), because..well.. I have two). Providing you don't hit something, it goes in quickly. Use a heavy hammer when it gets close to the ground.

[@chrismaxny4066]

I have a Duromax XP15000EH which is a bonded neutral generator with

[@MrENT18]

I learn something new with every video you release, and it is greatly appreciated.

[@paulk6532]

Have this same gen Duramax xp4850eh but purchased in 2020 and the neutral is bonded now (!).. I opened the panel like him and there is another wire connected to the ground terminal now (yellow wire on the left), and the continuity beeps on all of them.. so Duramax fixed this, mine is bonded. Double check yours for sure!

[@karlirvin5904]

Just check continuity between the neutral plug and the ground plug on one of the outlets on the generator to determine if neutral is bonded or not.

[@snap-off5383]

He did.

[@The_Happy_Aviation_Enthusiast]

Don’t forget about the generator safety rules: Always make sure you follow all the generator safety rules whenever you use your portable generator. This is only a reminder. Generators can be dangerous if not used carefully. Every year, hundreds of people die or get injured when using portable generators due to carbon monoxide poisoning and electrocution. Make sure you are using your generator carefully and keeping others safe as well. There is something very serious that everyone should always be aware of when using generators. Some people do run their generator indoors which is not safe and that increases the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning which can cause death of family and you. Some people run their generator in wet conditions which can electrocute them. Please remember that you should never run your generator indoors. Remember that carbon monoxide is an odorless and colorless gas that you cannot see or smell. Carbon monoxide is a silent killer. Keep that in mind. Make sure your generator is 15-20 feet away from your house and away from doors, windows, and vents. Never use your generator in your porch too. Having a carbon monoxide detector is very important against generator safety. Some people also allow children to go near the portable generator which could pose risks. We need to keep an eye on our children making sure that they are not near the portable generator so they won’t get electrocuted or burned by the generator which is dangerous. A locking enclosure also keeps kids safe. A generator shed might look like a tempting place to explore, or take cover during a game of hide and seek, but a generator is a dangerous piece of equipment that can cause injury. It says on the manual that we should also keep children away at all times from the portable generator to avoid injuries. Please do not allow a child or unqualified people to operate the portable generator. It is important to keep your children safe especially little ones. The portable generator can be hot during an operation. Just because some manuals missed what should be listed doesn’t mean it’s safe to do. Always follow the generator safety rules when using portable generators. Generators pose electrical risks. If you need to use your generator during wet weather, you need a generator tent to protect your generator from getting wet. Don’t let your generator get wet. Keep your generator dry and before using your generator, please make sure your hands and your generator is dry. Do not wear loose clothing when operating the generator. Everything that is said on the generator’s operating manual should not be ignored. Never smoke cigarettes near the generator. Please keep flammable things away from the generator. Never overload your generator too. Your generator can catch fire. Never ever try to plug a generator cord into a wall outlet to avoid back feeding. Back feeding your generator is dangerous. Always turn on your generator first before plugging in appliances and shut off the appliances before turning your generator off. Use a heavy duty cord for your generator and the cord should not be worn out. All the instructions should be followed carefully. Never refuel your generator while it’s running. It can cause fire if fuel spills while your generator is hot. You should turn off your generator and let it cool off before refueling it. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important. This is only a reminder for everyone’s safety of using generators. Make sure your generator is properly grounded. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important against the safety rules. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f2LNhWZ3g6qBrKs and here is a video more about keeping others safe when using generators and also about our family’s safety. It’s important to keep our little children safe as well. Make sure your little children are kept away from the generator at all times especially when it’s running. Hope this helps. This is only a safety reminder

[@tomrandall4871]

On some Champion duel voltage generators they use a floating neutral and a multi contact switch to parallel both 120 vac windings to increase the amperage for the 30 amp 120 vac socket for campers and small RV's. So if you would bond ground to neutral with the switch to 120 vac you would get a direct short. When the switch is at the 240 vac setting the switch also bonds the neutral of one side of the 120vac winding to ground. With that being said most of the Chinese generators come out of the same major factory. So they don't have a bonded neutral. Remember China home power is 220 vac. So split phase is not used.

[@WeatherNut27]

And for those about to buy a generator, 1st thing I would do is check to see if the panel your tapping into is bonded or not. If yes then get a gen with floating neutral. If not then get bonded neutral generator. Or you can just get a bonded neutral generator and unbond it if you need to.

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

If you are connecting via an interlocked breaker then you really always want a floating neutral generator regardless of if the panel you are connecting to us bonded or not. Sub panels are not bonded but up stream they are fed from a main panel that IS bonded so either way you want a floating neutral UNLESS you connect the generator via a switch that also switches the neutral. Confusing as ever. Ha.

[@Michael_Ellicott]

been chasing the story on bonded vs floating neutral for a while now, your vid cleared up for me.. just converted my dual fuel Champion 7ooo, to floating neutral as I have an inlet box wired in to my main (only) panel via a 30 amp breaker and an interlock.. thanks for the vid .. subscribed now.

[@deanrhodenizer938]

Hello Ben, Thanks again, good video, difficult subject. I have a 7.2Kw continuous duty generator that was bonded by default when I purchased it. I intended to use it primarily as backup power for my home. The bonding was done inside the generator cover which I promptly disconnected. Occasionally, this generator is used in standalone mode (not supplying power into a system with its own bonding) and at these times it should be bonded. I considered two solutions to solve this problem. The first was to install a toggle switch on the generator which could control bonding on/off. The second was to construct a short extension cord (

[@snap-off5383]

So a 3 conductor connection to the panel would work just as well right, and in that case you would WANT it bonded so that your generator case has continuity to ground?

[@deanrhodenizer938]

@@snap-off5383 Here’s my take on this… For the backup power example, you still want all four wires in your connection from the generator to the panel. You just don’t want any bonding done in the generator for this use case. Instead, you let that bonding occur in the panel in your house. Then the ground wire that runs from the generator to the panel does not carry any neutral current that it shouldn’t be carrying.

[@snap-off5383]

@@deanrhodenizer938 ideally yes, practically, in many cases someone is going to have a 3 prong welder receptacle with perfectly adequate 6 gauge conductors and want to use it on "emergency basis" to backfeed (me). Lacking the 4th conductor, a user *would* want the bond at the generator, to set the chassis potential equal to ground potential. So in the case the chassis gets shorted hot, it trips the breaker immediately instead of waiting for a grounded human to touch it. In that case there is no grounding conductor to be conducting any electricity, its just two hots, one neutral, all of the neutral and chassis being at ground potential due to the bond in the box.

[@snap-off5383]

@@deanrhodenizer938 OK turns out I'm wrong, if bonded the ground ITSELF can become a fault path back to source, whereas if the generator is floating neutral and case-grounded the only fault path back to source is down the main neutral, not through the ground or a person happening to touch the case and the service panel. So even with a 3 wire config, you'd want to float the neutral, and copper-stake the generator ground.

[@ronnyhusser1583]

This happened a few years back installing a generac transfer kit to a residence, after wiring everything up correctly when going to test everything , first tested utility side and everything was good, then for a simulated power outage and running from the generator, since the generator was set up with a OSHA type bonded neutral/ground it would trip the breaker on the generator becuase of the multiple pathways for the bonded neutral and ground in the main panel, the manufacture did have a solution wich was to instal a neutral switch kit, but, being a older home there was a possibilty of shared neutrals which would cuase a almost simular situation, solution was to have a generator that has a floating neutral so that it would not trip out it's own breaker.

[@jerryaguirre23]

In that configuration you are sending current through the neutral, through the ground wire, and through the soil itself. You have a connection from the neutral to the ground on the generator to the ground on your disconnect. Some of the current will be flowing through the dirt. If your generator is close enough to the panel and you touched both then some of the current would flow through you! If your wiring is good this will not be much but if your connection was faulty you might be the path of least resistance. Leave it unbonded!

[@The_Happy_Aviation_Enthusiast]

Don’t forget about the generator safety rules: Always make sure you follow all the generator safety rules whenever you use your portable generator. This is only a reminder. Generators can be dangerous if not used carefully. Every year, hundreds of people die or get injured when using portable generators due to carbon monoxide poisoning and electrocution. Make sure you are using your generator carefully and keeping others safe as well. There is something very serious that everyone should always be aware of when using generators. Some people do run their generator indoors which is not safe and that increases the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning which can cause death of family and you. Some people run their generator in wet conditions which can electrocute them. Please remember that you should never run your generator indoors. Remember that carbon monoxide is an odorless and colorless gas that you cannot see or smell. Carbon monoxide is a silent killer. Keep that in mind. Make sure your generator is 15-20 feet away from your house and away from doors, windows, and vents. Never use your generator in your porch too. Having a carbon monoxide detector is very important against generator safety. Some people also allow children to go near the portable generator which could pose risks. We need to keep an eye on our children making sure that they are not near the portable generator so they won’t get electrocuted or burned by the generator which is dangerous. A locking enclosure also keeps kids safe. A generator shed might look like a tempting place to explore, or take cover during a game of hide and seek, but a generator is a dangerous piece of equipment that can cause injury. It says on the manual that we should also keep children away at all times from the portable generator to avoid injuries. Please do not allow a child or unqualified people to operate the portable generator. It is important to keep your children safe especially little ones. The portable generator can be hot during an operation. Just because some manuals missed what should be listed doesn’t mean it’s safe to do. Always follow the generator safety rules when using portable generators. Generators pose electrical risks. If you need to use your generator during wet weather, you need a generator tent to protect your generator from getting wet. Don’t let your generator get wet. Keep your generator dry and before using your generator, please make sure your hands and your generator is dry. Do not wear loose clothing when operating the generator. Everything that is said on the generator’s operating manual should not be ignored. Never smoke cigarettes near the generator. Please keep flammable things away from the generator. Never overload your generator too. Your generator can catch fire. Never ever try to plug a generator cord into a wall outlet to avoid back feeding. Back feeding your generator is dangerous. Always turn on your generator first before plugging in appliances and shut off the appliances before turning your generator off. Use a heavy duty cord for your generator and the cord should not be worn out. All the instructions should be followed carefully. Never refuel your generator while it’s running. It can cause fire if fuel spills while your generator is hot. You should turn off your generator and let it cool off before refueling it. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important. This is only a reminder for everyone’s safety of using generators. Make sure your generator is properly grounded. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important against the safety rules. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f2LNhWZ3g6qBrKs and here is a video more about keeping others safe when using generators and also about our family’s safety. It’s important to keep our little children safe as well. Make sure your little children are kept away from the generator at all times especially when it’s running. Hope this helps. Stay safe

[@WeatherNut27]

Amazing in depth video on this. Thanks! @12:46 for those that dont get it... you would get shocked by touching the generator with that situation. The metal parts were live with voltage

[@cedricpomerleau5586]

Not really. The phase was grounded and assuming your body touch the ground too, both are at the same potential and you're safe. The real danger with that situation is that now the neutral is 120V relative to the ground. Assuming again that you're grounded and you touch the neutral (frequent with small appliances without ground where the frame connected to the neutral), you'll get shocked. Another danger is with 240V appliances where the phases are usually both 120V relative to the ground, but now if one phase is grounded, the other is 240V relative to the ground, making it way more dangerous.

[@jeffreystroman2811]

No you would not, it simply would make the generators white wire now the hot.

[@leebrooke1831]

Nice job. Recognize most of your subscribers are going to be diy guys without NEC knowledge or tech background. They will be using the local box store tools and need to see those very tools in action. Hope you see 100k in less than a month. New vid every week will do it!

[@winddealer1]

Thank you brother! Your channel is a life saver. Love your and your viewers comments. Gratefully.

[@publicmail2]

You can bond the neutral to the ground case, thus bonding it, however a fault within generator that would put voltage on neutral, would then put it to case for sure, even with ground rod. A GFCI protected transfer switch would require a non bonded neutral, which may be the reason they did this so the GFCI would trip.

[@waynecram2021]

this... is why I hire an electrician. bond.. neutral... ground case.. fault... voltage on neutral.. ground rod... non-bonded neutral. my god... hire an expert, says me. :)

[@BuffaloBilliam]

I'm glad you mentioned "exclusively with extension cords". Running thru a transfer switch kinda cancels the worry out

[@edcronin5409]

I have this generator I have used this when the power is out ! 12 hrs no problem

[@Icehso140]

We can't forget NEC 590.6.(A).3...requiring ALL 15Kw and less gennys to have or use GFCI protection. Had someone throw a sump pump off an unprotected genny into a ditch half full of water that I happened to be working in. Other trades just don't get it. 15:58..."Almost immediately" ??? I should hope it trips sooner. 3 cycles would hurt. LOL One more note. If anyone in a really cold environment wants to use a propane genny off a 20 lb tank, well don't be surprised when it won't run. Propane doesn't like temps below 20 degrees and this genny needs a lot of expansion room in the tank for the propane to evaporate at that low of a temp. Great video again.

[@robbennett2829]

This would be the same as an isolation transformer. Depending on some applications and circumstances, isolating power systems is a good thing sometimes. Bonding the genset chassis and the building electrode is required if the neutral is tied to the genset/grounding rod. I think a floating neutral is not actually floating because it's not actually neutral if it is isolated. It's just a secondary of a transformer (Not an autotransformer) . If a shorting fault occurs in the windings or other fault occurs, it could be lethal. Either way, bonding the genset chassis to the building electrode is required. If worms start flying out of the soil, don't go near and RUN!

[@arsenic1987]

To be honest, I don't understand what you're afraid of at 08:20... You have an unconnected generator chassis, running one wire out to connect to it.. There is now a big potential between the chassis of the generator, and the neutral inside the plug. But that's the only potential it has... You're in no way in contact with it's neutral, so can hug and cuddle with the generator as much as you please. You're basically "doing the same thing" when you connect neutral to the chassis (or bonding it). You make a big potential between the chassis and the live wire inside the outlet, and can hug and cuddle it then as well, you're just hugging the other side of the AC phase. Is it just because the wires are called "live" and "neutral" :P Hehe.

[@arsenic1987]

9:12 well, NOW it's dangerous, because you're poking at the opposite side of the AC phase... The exact same thing would happen if you had neutral connected to the chassis, and prodded around in the live wire plug.

[@arsenic1987]

11:12 - Well, that's the exact same thing you do with neutral connected to the chassis... If there was a short in the fan, it would also send power into the ground lead, tripping the breaker... Exact same thing would happen if it had a short inside it between neutral and your hookup was like this. The first hazard you mentioned is not correct. Because the chassis of the fan is ALSO connected to ground lead that goes to the chassis, which is connected to "live". thus both the fan chassis, and the chassis of the generator would have no potential.

[@arsenic1987]

13:13 . And you have bonded it.. to one side of the AC phase... Ground, chassis, fan chassis... It seems the word "live" is the scary part. Hehe. It makes no difference what side of the AC phase you bond to ground. The other side is where the power is. Bond the live wire to ground, and you'll have a "live wire neutral"..

[@bimmerboard]

You are a great teacher. Not even my EE professors in college explained the subject as well. Love the examples.

[@rmac6420]

Might as well be one. So confusing!

[@maxmerton]

At 16:51 you said that the breaker won't trip when there's a phase-to-ground short, and that this is a problem. But the reason it won't trip is that there's no fault current, and the lack of a fault current means that there is no hazard.

[@rickward1262]

Sounds like a lot of us are trying to do the same thing. Run most of the house with a generator connected to the main (or sub) panel. Using a generator in the 6500 to 6500 running wattage range, they mostly appear to be a bonded neutral generator. The problem becomes when hooking it up thru the 240V 30 amp plug to a main panel that’s got a bonding screw which would trip GFCI breakers. I believe one solution is to modify the bonded neutral generator to a floating neutral ( and label appropriately). If you later wanted to use the other plugs or use it as a stand alone generator, you could use a neutral to ground plug into one of the 120V plugs to convert it back to a bonded neutral generator. Did I get it right?

[@bramcoteelectrical1088]

Yes that is correct😊

[@davehennick9856]

I tell ya. Extremely good, helpful. A way to present these things you have done. There are many of us here who can do these things and never understand what makes up the process. But many times over, there are people who do not understand it but really wanting to do. I say you are the man!

[@PaulE4213]

Another thing that could happen if the generator and utility power are connected at the same time is that the generator could catch on fire as the generator and utility power will not be in sync or phase with each other. There has been fires because of this. In solar systems there are grid-tie inverters that match up with the utility power.

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

I wondered about that while editing the video. It's amazing that they can sync all of the different power generation systems to the same 60hz frequency on the grid.

[@JoshuaBlomberg]

@@BenjaminSahlstrom I imagine most frequency-matching systems in grid-tie converters are based around the zero-cross detector, which is basically a full-wave rectifier feeding into an opto-isolator (which is basically an LED matched with a photosensor inside an integrated circuit housing); LED on means the phase is not zero (or 180, which is functionally the same once you've used a full-wave rectifier), which shows up on the opto-isolator's output, so LED off means no current, which means the phase is at zero. A lot of electronic lighting dimmers (not the knobs or sliders or whatever but the bigger ones used for theaters or offices or industrial buildings or what have you, or even the ones you can get off of Amazon for like $100) use a zero-cross detector to trigger pulse-width modulation on the live line (by way of a TRIAC, generally) going out of the dimmer, thereby chopping off part of the wave proportional to whatever percentage the dimmer is told to use. With an incandescent light, the thermal inertia of the filament allows it to continue emitting light during the portion of the phase where the modulation has turned off the current (the curve of light emission compared to time-powered-on is enough the same between various makes and models of incandescent lamps that a compensating curve can be programmed into either the control computers or directly into the dimmers themselves). However, LED fixtures do not have the same sort of carry-over during the point of the phase where the current is shut off, which is why they tend to flicker (also, they require a certain voltage before turning on at all).

[@Honestandtruth007]

@@BenjaminSahlstrom Hello Benjamin......... Do you know what is the THD=Total Harmonic Distortion of Duromax Generator ❓❓

[@V21IC]

This is quite an interesting video. Ben is very courageous with good intentions. He addresses a topic that the professionals, universities and companies dedicated to electrical engineering are relatively mute. My take. Un ungrounded generator with a floating neutral bonds its neutral and chassis and grounds them when connected to a grounded electrical system. This happens when there's a EGC from the electrical installation back to the generator! When the same floating neutral generator is used as a standalone source to power appliances, tools, etc. THEN it would be prudent to bond the Neutral and Ground and bond them to the generator chassis. Grounding the chassis to an electrode is optional. WHAT MUST ALWAYS HAPPEN IS THAT THE NEUTRAL AND THE GROUND ARE BONDED TOGETHER AT THE CHASSIS or indirectly when connected to the grounded electrical system. However switch gear that switches between standby and utility should be located before the Neutral is grounded before the main disconnect. Any power source connected before the first disconnect will automatically have its neutral and Ground BONDED and grounded. The main confusion is brought about by companies or interests who seek to sell and/or install more grounding system

[@paulanderson388]

Good video and very informative. Generator companies should advise which system is needed based on the intended usage, and provide an easy way (switch or connector) to select bonded or unbonded on their products. Thanks Ben for the great information and I love your farm.

[@lelandclayton5462]

What I did with my portable generator I installed key switch so I can select a floating neutral or bonded neutral. So this way if I have to use it for a job site I can bond it and if I need it to power some outlets I can float it.

[@patthesoundguy]

I could have been killed back in September because an electrician got the generator panel wrong!!! Get the bonding/flloating wrong and the generator frame becomes live and you get 120 volts between earth and the generator frame. I grabbed the generator frame to move it slightly in its little building to get the exhaust to point outward and I got zapped. Had I not been wearing safety boots I probably would be dead. I took the meter and put one lead in the dirt and one on the generator frame and got a solid 120 volts. It's crucial to get it right!!!!!!!!

[@pierredoucet4556]

agree... see my post 4 days ago

[@Veritas-invenitur]

Your not going to be getting anything from sticking your probe into the ground.

[@randyknott6029]

Thanks, very helpful! I just replaced my main 200 amp panel as water had been getting in it and seized my main 200 amp breaker. I couldn't replace that breaker as it is an old panel so I replaced the whole panel. I have been watching videos to understand bonding. I installed a 30 amp breaker in that panel to supply a plug box to have a back up using my generator and was wondering whether my generator needed to be bonded or not. I am going to check by 2 -100 amp panels in the house and make sure they are not bonded. I think I am understanding all this now. Very helpful video 😊😊

[@eddiepires3998]

I like the focus of your video which is mainly safety . I feel I need to draw attention to what occurred when the circuit breaker tripped. It tripped due to over current. it is probably rated at around 30 Amps (depends on the power of the generator) You had the Neutral and Ground wires connected together and hence the Neutral was connected to the frame of the generator . You then touched the Live to the frame effectively causing a short between Live and Neutral. It is important to understand the difference between types of circuit breakers. The circuit breaker on the generator will trip when excess current is drawn and is there to protect equipment , the generator and wiring . Sadly it will probably not trip in time to save human life in the event of electrocution. The circuit breaker called an Earth Leakage circuit breaker is fitted on distribution boards and these are to protect human beings [and /or animals :-) ]. from electrocution. At AC voltages of 110 and 220 volts it takes very little current to cause a fatal shock - around as little as thirty milliamps ( 30mA) So the mechanism inside the Earth leakage breaker detects this tiny difference between the Live and Neutral and will trip. Okay why ? The current flowing in the Live going out to an appliance must be the same current that flows back through to neutral and ultimately back to the power station. If it is not ,it means that the current is finding another path back to the power station through ground. Or put another way , if an unlucky individual were to touch the Live wire ( or what Americans call the Hot lead ) then the current would use their body to find an alternative path to ground . If this happens there will be an imbalance in the current in Live and Neutral and the Earth leakage circuit breaker will trip in time to save the hapless individual. If we were to rely on just the overcurrent circuit breaker to save us , then we would be required to endure approx 30 A for several seconds before current were interrupted . Our demise would occur long before then . There are several videos on KZbin that explain this far better and in more detail than I have . I hope this helps.

[@impacttech5465]

Awesome video! Never worked residential so any generator under 15kw we always classified as a tool and not designated for real property installed equipment. Never thought about it but it's nice to know the little guys we use for hand tools might not have the fault protection I want. Guess I'll be placing some jumpers

[@tomfink2763]

So if u hook up a floating neutral generator to a inlet box with a interlock breaker you shouldn't also use the 110 outlets (extension cords) to run other things???

[@bramcoteelectrical1088]

Yes you can as long as its not from the genny. Extension cords should come from house sockets that have the Jenny running them but inside house panel the earth and natural are bonded together so the gfci will trip correctly. If you plugged directly into Jenny 110v out let it would be floating so you wouldn't get it to trip as it floating. If Jenny is plugged into house change over and you also plug into Jenny using an action cord it should trip as the natural and earth are tied together until you disconnect the power lead to the change over panel at house now you have a floating natural again 😮😮 Basically if you use hand tools on a Jenny link wire from earth to natural in plug and install ground rod. If powering house leave floating as it will be linked at change over panel netrual and earth Earthing is a complex subject and even us electrical 😂techs scratch heads sometimes 😂

[@donaldgray5561]

Could a generator be designed with a switch of some sort to toggle between bonded and floating neutral? And if so how much current capacity should it be capable of handling?

[@bramcoteelectrical1088]

It could but my feelings are the manufacturers either dont want the liabilities.

[@robertmcenery4344]

Tying the hot leg to the chassis of the generator only causes the Hot conductor and Grounded conductor to be swapped. That generator is designed to be used as an emergency power source for a home. Neutral and Ground should only be bonded in one location. Since they are bonded in the house this generator is perfectly fine, per electrical code to be used as an emergency home power source. Bonding the nuetral is not an absolute requirement. If you are powering a single device, such as a pump or power tool, it is not necessary. If you are powering a job site, with muliple connections, the bond will be made at the power distribution panel. Do not confuse the circuit breaker with a life protecting device, it only prevents the internal wiring from catching fire due to overload. If you are concerned with electric shock, use a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter.

[@spelunkerd]

It is spooky to find a floating neutral in a consumer product. That completely removes the protection of a safety ground wire for any appliance plugged directly into the generator. CE and CSA are labelled on the frame, but evidently the authorities who approved this didn't look beyond the schematic. They should have bonded it, with documentation available to disconnect the bond for those few who plan to feed a main panel.

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

Exactly.

[@ScottsSynthStuff]

The vast majority of Chinese products with CSA/UL labels did not actually pass testing and are not certified - the manufacturers apply those stickers fraudulently.

[@Wuety06]

well.. for most products on mains yes.. but using this Gen with extension cords.. idk you would need a situation where one half is on frame shorted to h and another hand is on frame electric ly isolated from first part of frame but conductive to other wire.. kinda odd circumstances. cause floating just grabbing hot shouldn't do anything. it's not ground refed. dry unbroken skin is 100k ohms. add 30ft of dirt and even if not well isolated.. ie there is a Gen head path to dirt from n... not much current is going to flow. do the math on just skin resistance and 120. isolation transformers are pretty standard in med environments and electronics test benches.. and I thought they were still mentioning one arm rule to electricians and well it works better with isolation it's still not a bad rule in general

[@millomweb]

16:30 now do the opposite - ground the live and trip the breaker by arcking the neutral to the frame - or even the other phase to make a 240V flash. It doesn't matter AT ALL which of the three wires is connected to earth, the other 2 will always cause a trip. The reason the neutral is chosen means that the tripping voltage can only be 120v and never 240v but here in England, we have 240V anyway - so all ours are at 240 as the primary standard.

[@ricquito8389]

Great video and I learned something new: bonded neutral. The only thing that slightly bothers me is the jab that the generator is from China. Duromax is based in California and designs their generators in the USA and outsources production overseas. Duromax has a responsibility to make sure units are quality controled to their design spec as well as making sure their manuals are also correct. Duromax is 100% at fault here. In addition, basically all Honda generators are made in China.

[@ianmiles2505]

I am not in the USA and I have the same generator albeit with a different name. They are Chinese.

[@onlywenilaugh6589]

4 years on and 442K subs:) Great work. Great video as well, thanks for explaining this.

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

No problem! Glad to help.

[@benjamin7913]

Question? If you only have a bonded generator what would be the issue of just omitting the ground connection in the four prong generator cord and using the ground/natural bond at the main panel. Wouldn’t this allow current to travel back on the neutral just as it dose for the utility connection? Great video btw!

[@atubebuff]

25:36 When Benjamin "bonds" the generator N-G while powering the main panel via the twist-lock and measures what amounts to a small fraction of the actual current being drawn by the house, why isn't there *more* current (ie. was expecting 50%) circulating on the ground wire considering they are "parallel paths" (ie. a bond N-G bond is at the generator and the main panel) just like the case for a sub-panel?

[@wordsofhis1799]

So, in other words. The bonded neutral generator that I use for my house when the power's out (through an interlock breaker, as yours) needs to be a floating neutral? But if I take same generator out to a jobsite to run power tools, it needs to be a bonded neutral to be safe?

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

Technically, yes. But as I mentioned I wouldn't be too concerned if you're interlock breaker is connected to your main panel where the neutrals and grounds are bonded. With the bonded neutral generator that you have there will just be a small amount of neutral current on the ground wire in your generator cord and, though it's technically not right, I doubt it would ever cause any issues.

[@jjdj92]

@@BenjaminSahlstrom Question? i have a duromax 10000EH, which states it has a floating neutral. i have continuity from the neutral to the ground/frame. So this means the neutral and ground are bonded at the unit and because the the ground and neutral are indeed bonded at the generator making it a "floating neutral" do you eliminate the ground at the twist lock receptacle that goes back to the main sub panel? I smoked my ground contacts on my 4 wire receptacle and duromax said that having the ground connected at the receptacle as well as a neutral conductor creates a "power loop" thus allowing a stray current to flow on an alternate circular path and this is what smoked my plug on the ground contact. Essentially, the two line leads 240/120V support power, the neutral and ground are bonded to return the unbalanced load on any 120V circuits and you need a bonded ground to an earth path to a rod in the ground connected to the chassis bond lug that will carry shorts that the neutral cant handle thus this is how it needs to be wired for proper safety... would you agree? in your previous video i saw you install a ground wire on your plug and it worked because you generator was not actually bonded to neutral. make sense?

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

@@jjdj92 Confusing as ever isn't it! If you have a floating neutral then there should be NO continuity between neutral and ground while the generator is disconnected from your system. If there is continuity then you somehow have your neutral and ground bonded together at the generator and you may need to remove that cover as I did to see if there is a jumper installed. If so then just remove it to make it a floating neutral generator then your issues should be solved. Grounding the generator is unnecessary in my opinion especially when connecting the generator to a system through an interlocked backfed breaker. I'm going to make a video explaining this hopefully soon. Interesting to hear when Duromax said regarding the current loop. I'm surprised that it could actually fry your plug though. Let me know what you find out.

[@JasonW.]

With a 10kva generator, it is probably using a 50a plug. If 4 wire 50a, like L14-50, that plug cable is probably 3x 6ga and 1x 10ga for ground. That would fry the 10a ground wire if it somehow took an unbalanced load, anything 35a (30a NEC) or more would overload the wire, 50a might burn it.

[@toddlaroche5831]

Jason, when your plug smoked, did you have a ground rod attached to the grounding terminal on the generator panel?

[@paulmaxwell8851]

Excellent video on a difficult subject. Unfortunately, many commenters below still don't seem yo understand the subject. An unbonded generator NOT tied to a properly wired home/shop/panel is a hazard to the user, as the frame can become energized without tripping the overcurrent protection device. Grounding a small generator such as we see in this video does NOT make it any safer. Mike Holt's NEC series of videos explain this in great detail. Please, confused viewers, watch this video again and make sure you understand the subject.

[@harrisonkatzz7090]

I just discovered MIKE HOLT he is the end word on grounding watch him thks .

[@bramcoteelectrical1088]

He's mega😊

[@Bare_Essence]

Thanks for explaining that. I appreciate both views. I just finished watching a Generac generator installation that talked about only one box should be bonded and location of the bond. This was helpful since that video did not quite walk through both concepts independently.

[@slchang01]

Great video, Ben...Subscribed due to your knowledge and clear delivery in layman's term. I just got my 5000 watts gen made by A-ipower (4250 watts running), and tested the receptacles as you demonstrated...The panel said that they are bonded neutral, but I tested them and found that only the 120/240V L14-30R is bonded, while the four 5-20R are not. I am baffled. 1). Do you know why this is so? The electric schematic diagram clearly showed that all four 120V receptacles and the 240V receptacle have neutral wires connected together and to the ground. 2). If I hook this unit using extension cords separately from the main panel to my 120V appliances or tools, will there be a problem, being a floating neutral 120V receptacles? 3). As you mentioned, a bonded neutral(240V in this case) may be used for the interlock back feed (current in the ground is small?), does this mean you will need to set up a ground bar/line to the gen panel's ground connector? 4). The interlock back feed is a safe way to ensure that there is no chance of making a mistake for the main power switch. To my understanding, what is the difference between this and the one people hook the 120/240V L14-30 line to the 240V dryer receptacle, when the main power switch is off and taped over (no chance to activated it)? Thanks in advance for your help...

[@BillyBobDingledorf]

Did you test with the breaker on?

[@NoName-sx4cz]

The difference with an interlock and back feeding by taping the main breaker off is if you get caught doing it you won't be able to get utility power again. They will cut you off. Also if a fire happens in your house that's electrically related during use of a backfeed cord without a proper interlock you can bet they won't cover the damages. Don't do it. Just get an interlock/transfer switch, or use extension cords. People make mistakes under stress, and the mistake of backfeeding lines during an outage is just too much risk to take for yourself and utility linemen.

[@slchang01]

@@NoName-sx4cz thanks for the info. It's been a while since I asked the question, and I bought a Predator generator instead from Harbor Freight., 4350 watts/3500 watts. I acturally tested the backfeeding once with it, and no problem to feed my two refrigerators and one small chest freezer, plus my internet modem and router with LED lighting when I needed them. Taping the main switch off with all the 240 volts breakers off except the dryer breaker. Someone used/suggested interlock device, which is the same as taping mechanism, though with a seperate line/240V outlet to backfeeding. What is the difference between the two methods? Using extension cords look easy, but you need to get several long cables runing around for each devices that a located far away, it can be problematic/messy as well.

[@glennbevin7464]

I bought a Honda 2200 approx. 2 months ago. It is a floating neutral generator. In order to use it to power my travel trailer, I had to get a three prong plug and put a jumper between the ground and the neutral.

[@olegig5166]

Ok, I am convinced you know your stuff; but I must admit after watching, I still don't know how to hook up my generator correctly.😢

[@miket8376]

I too have to agree with you! Questions I now have after watching Benjamins “Very Descriptive” video = But I am confused??? If your generator is Bonded, and you hook up to the homes circuit panel (which in most cases may have a bonded (with ground) Neutral, what do you do? What are you supposed to do then? Do you have to “Unbond” the generator, or is it ok to leave it alone? One thing I think I understood, is if your generator is NOT bonded, and you want to use power directly from the generator with an extension cord to say power a component directly, take an old cord: tie the ground and neutral together, cover the hot wire and plug it into an empty receptacle on the generator - and now the generator is bonded. Is that correct? But to just repeat my confusion and need an answer to the question that remains, if my generator IS bonded, and I DO hook up to the homes Circuit Panel, do I have to Unbond my generator, and How would I do that?

[@olegig5166]

@@miket8376 man I feel your pain. You should ask someone besides me. Maybe a local electrician. On the other hand might search KZbin for generator bonding. I know of some who buy a male plug end and internally make a jumper from ground to neutral.

[@williammaldonado6132]

May I suggest that you download the entire course (video) 👌

[@mosswareproaudio6328]

I did a test run on my Champion Power Equipment 100520 8750-Watt DH Series Open Frame Inverter today. Number 1 problem is RFI. If you have AM Radios, then forget this generator. Champion includes statements regarding RFI interference in the manual. It must be due to the inverter. The RFI is not anywhere near as low as my 1990 Honda EX4500 which does not interfere with my AM radios. This Champion 100520 will not be replacing my EX4500. It will remain a good higher wattage back up.

[@xephael3485]

8:32 It's not open lead... It's over load or limit. _"OL - Overload (the reading exceeds the display range)"_

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

Thank you. I assumed that it was for "open lead" but should have researched that first. Thanks again for informing me.

[@WeatherNut27]

Nope. It's not overload. It's Open Line. there's no continuity, there's no path for electric current to flow from one probe to the other.

[@ksdavey1]

@@BenjaminSahlstrom just because in the Fluke manuals they call 'O.L' Overload, does not mean the manufacturer of your meter is using the same. That said, in ohms mode, if the reading is so high that the meter thinks the leads are not even touching anything, an Open Lead would be what it thinks is the problem. So would a very high ohmic value, with the leads not see anything, be an Overload, or an infinite reading, or no reading at all. Hmmmm . I've always called it an open, just plain open. Benjamin, keep up the good work.

[@BYENZER]

NO. NO. NO. Nuclear Weapons trained technician here. OL means OUT OF LIMITS. As in, the meter function, currently selected, cannot handle, (too high or too low)/read what is currently being input to the meter.

[@xephael3485]

@@BenjaminSahlstrom It's Overload, I have books older than anyone posting here that document that😂. Even Dave from EEVblog (electrical engineer) agree...

[@josephp.9591]

Excellent video! Concise, but detailed and practical examples to back up the floating neutral and bonded neutral applications.

[@nellyfarnsworth7381]

24:50 WIFE: Hey the electric power is OFF AGAIN

[@orlandolopez3089]

Just did 8 months ago you're doing a great job. Thank you thank you thank you. 👍👍

[@commoncentstx]

Ben, you can't have the ground bonded in both places because of possible fault conditions. If someone runs over your generator cord with a mower and cuts the neutral wire and ground wire, you would then have a voltage potential on everything that is bonded in the house, along with the generator and the panel. If you were barefoot and touched the generator or your panel outside, you would then complete the return path through you and the ground to the generator. If you pushed your plug in mower over to the generator to see what was wrong, and touched the metal frame of the mower and the metal frame of the generator, you'd be in series with every 120v electrical load in your house and really get lit up. Obviously in regular conditions it is no big deal, but these rules are written in blood, just like OSHA regulations. This type of fault condition has happened, and has killed people. If this problem happened with a floating neutral generator, you would have cut the ONLY return path for the current, and the neutral at the generator itself would no longer be bonded anywhere. The whole point of the NEC is to provide multiple fail-safes in the event of a fault. Please don't tell people that it's okay to completely remove one of those protections. Your bonded generator would also backfeed the power lines through the neutral (your interlock isn't up to code for use with a bonded generator for that exact reason). Unrelated: most generators can be converted from floating to bonded neutral easily, and most manufacturers provide instructions on how to do it legitimately.

[@HaloWolf102]

I recommend you watch this video again, because he clearly goes over all the information you have listed in your comment.

[@j2o3sh]

Most portable generators sold in Canada are with the neutral bonded to frame I believe. The manual transfer switches we install have specific instructions about the ground and neutral as it relates to the generator used (if in fact it is bonded to frame or floating etc)

[@tedlahm5740]

Ben: the worms in that field are pushing up the crop.

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

Ha, no kidding!! The corn is going wild this year and is taller than average for this time of the year in Southwest Minnesota.

[@RameshPatel-cb9yc]

Lol that is true .....

[@JasonW.]

It's all that blue earth making the corn grow. Soybeans are on a sprint too this year.

[@ron827]

@@JasonW. In agreement from Blue Earth County, MN.

[@thedaddechannel]

Little late to this: When I was a kid we had something we'd 'hunt' nightcrawlers with. Seems it was electric and we'd stick it in the ground, like an old TV picture tube anode tester but homemade. Don't remember a cord tho. But oh man, up thru the ground came every nightcrawler around it and we'd be grabbin' em. Alive to tell. What the heck?

[@glendamyers2567]

Ben, "OL" does NOT mean open lead. It refers to being "over limit" of the meter's capability.

[@ethanoverwatch407]

False. A quick google search proves your statement wrong.

[@christopherswanson1628]

Only when you are in voltage or current readings is this true. When checking continuity it means open loop. Just happens to have the same abbreviation

[@SoundzRite]

@@christopherswanson1628 And also should be "over limit" when you are measuring a resistance that is greater than the range limit on a locked resistance range . This is NOT an open loop! We have all gotten too lazy with auto ranging DMM's. That's why "over limit" is a far better term. It works in all situations, including continuity.

[@SoundzRite]

@@ethanoverwatch407 If I have a DMM that declares continuity OL at readings above 200 ohms and I'm probing a 300 ohm corroded connection, is that an "open loop" or "open lead"? I think not.

[@josephpuchel6497]

Hey excellent video tutorial. I work in a small engine shop and there’s a lot of people with Chinese generators out there. Everyone with a generator should watch your video.

[@MrWzeljunior]

Wow, I was in the midst of buying a firearm light as well!

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

Sweet! The Odin is an excellent product. Great warranty too. What lights were you considering?

[@dakoderii4221]

Firearms are dangerous. TV god told me they grow legs at night and kill people. They weigh more than "10 moving boxes". AR's fire ".50 cal bullets" at the rate of "100 clips per second".

[@JasonW.]

@@dakoderii4221 no, they shoot clipozines at rates unable to be scientifically tested

[@petebovenzi8119]

Hilarious ! My NY compliant AR14 holds a pinned ten round magazine clip that I can readily convert to 11 . Lord help us all . Thank's Uncle Andrew Cuomo , for keeping us all safe ...

[@713allen]

To understand the connection of a portable generator to a house, one must know exactly how the generator power is being placed into the house circuit. In the first three situations below assume that the house is disconnected from the utility power input. If the breaker panel is the main disconnect, it is probable that the panel's ground bus and the panel's neutral bus are connected together, and the panel's ground bus is connected to the local ground rod/dirt. If it is a secondary panel, the ground rod is not there and the connection in the panel between neutral and ground is not present (the neutral and ground wires go separately back to the main breaker panel where they are connected together there). For example: 1. A generator feeds via a cable into a house panel/outlet/plug where the two 120vac hot/black wires go through a breaker and then to the house circuit, the plug's neutral is unswitched and is connected to the panel's neutral bar (along with all the other house's neutral lines) and the plug's ground goes to the panel's ground bus bar (along with all the house's ground lines). The cable's ground and neutral wires are essentially the same, i.e. a parallel path, because they are connected together inside the house breaker panel. For a grounded-neutral generator, the return current from the two 120vac hot lines will flow, nearly equally, in both the cable's neutral and ground wires because there is no difference between the two wires' connections. Further, current flowing through a wire, because of the wire's resistance, will produce a voltage. Therefore, the ground wire connected frame of the generator will be at a voltage higher than the house ground voltage. If you touch the house ground and the generator frame, it is likely that you will be shocked (maybe even lethally). If you touch the generator frame and the wet dirt, again possibly a lethal shock. If the generator is a floating-neutral generator, there will not be current flowing down the cable's ground wire -- 100% of the current will remain on the cable's neutral wire. The generator will be at the ground potential of the house -- no shock. 2. A generator is fed by a cable into a panel plug where the two 120vac hot wires and the neutral are switched. In this case the house ground is always connected to the generator's frame/ground. Engage the switch and you have essentially the same thing as in example 1. 3. A generator is fed by a cable into an panel plug where the two 120vac hot wires, neutral and the ground are all switched. By switching the ground, the generator frame is floating and the minute leakage currents in the generator could raise the frame to a dangerous voltage when the switch is open. Sinking a ground rod and connecting to the generator's frame is a stabilizing option but this is a less than ideal situation. 4. The generator is not connected to the house circuit and is used whilst camping. This is the usual NEC/OSHA described scenario and the one for which many (most?) generators are configured by the manufacturer (grounded-neutral). In this case, a ground rod is usually prescribed for making the generator's frame potential equal to that of the local dirt. Thus, if you stand in wet dirt and touch the generator frame, the shock potential is minimized. Otherwise, it is possible that the local dirt voltage is different enough relative to the generator's ground/neutral that a lethal shock may occur. Also, if something is plugged into the generator's outlet, the appliance's grounded enclosure is at the same potential as the generator's frame and the dirt. If something goes wrong and the hot wire leaks to the appliance's enclosure, there is now current flowing back to the generator via the cable's ground wire and the GFI will trip. Further, the grounded-neutral ties the neutral to a reasonable/safer local voltage. A floating-neutral may see the neutral drift far away from the dirt's potential, a voltage between the frame and neutral) and could produce a lethal situation.

[@swatkins9391]

and that is the very reason the old electric tools went from metal cases to plastic cases and invented the GFCI. Too many guys getting fried.

[@petersack5074]

PLASTIC.....MORE modern junk.....gears in the garage door opener on the roof, plastic gears....absolutely mindless engineers....$$ for parts, but, NOT FROM THIS GUY.....

[@nomanjones4803]

I made a cord to hook into my house, when I had the neutral connected it made the house 220vac, I cut the neutral and it works fine.

[@toddlaroche5831]

Ben, another great video! Thanks for all the time (and guts) to do this one! Disturbing how your generator’s schematic was not in alignment with the actual wiring! I do think DuroMax suffers from misleading or inaccurate literature in many cases. Also adding layers of understanding to this video is the particular fact that the DuroMax generator ground circuit is not actually bonded to the exterior frame. What would you say to using an approved grounding rod to ground a bonded neutral generator that is wired directly to a main panel (using no transfer switch) WITHOUT A GROUND WIRE between the generator receptacle and the main ground buss??

[@toddlaroche5831]

PS. This scenario I just mentioned (ground rod/bonded neutral/no ground wire from panel to generator) is DuroMax’s recommendation.

[@gene2200]

@@toddlaroche5831 after don't know how many hrs finally found 1 mention of a Preditor on the DIY page. Ground and nutrual are bonded at the ground lug, schematic I found was wrong, imagine that! Could easily put a switch there to change it, 4 bolts and 6 nuts. Full steam ahead!

[@tlangdon12]

I think I have a similar problem (but in reverse) with a Greengear generator I'm looking at buying in the UK. The manual says that that the neutral is bonded, but the wiring diagram shows that it isn't! I can't see any alternative, but to go to the store, ask them to prove that the neutral is bonded to the frame (and the earth pin on the main receptacle) and only buy it if they can. It should be possible to trust the documentation, but you really can't if it is based on information supplied by the Chinese manufacturer.

[@millomweb]

11:50 What you have there is what's known as a 'positive earth' - where the earth = the power lead. This is actually no different from having the neutral earthed - it's no more dangerous or safe. It will remain like that as long as in the system, another neutral is not connected to earth. A floating neutral is not a problem. You have a floating earth too - while it is floating, it is safe - as making a connection to the earth through a person will not make a complete circuit so current, lethal or not will not flow. Danger appears when there are two faults.

[@DavidScheiber]

Ah I see, having the generator bonded at the generator and at the panel makes the ground wire and the neutral wire essentially into one wire which then causes current to be drawn through the ground wire rather than exclusively through the neutral wire. This could especially become a problem if the ground wire is thinner than the neutral.

[@chris2790]

Well, the thicker wire is going to carry more current than the thinner wire. Not sure this in and of itself presents a problem.

[@RS-qp4bp]

Great video I am working an annual electrical shutdown PM tonight on 2400 volt power breakers, but before that I need to connect a 120 volt generator to laboratory equipment, 480 volt trailered Onan generator to the portable water supply pump motors, and I'll need to connect an inverter duty 120 volt generator to computer servers. I'm going to do some tests on the generators before and after I electrically connect them to a load. Great video keep up the good work. I would have said "awesome" video but that term is used too much . LOL LOLOOLOLLO LOL.

[@MrTooTechnical]

kick ass. more fluke. get rid of your old meter please. it sux.

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

I accept donations! ;) The good ol' Fieldpiece just keeps working! It would be great if I could get Fluke to sponsor the channel. Maybe I'll reach out to them.

[@rubenp8750]

I am afraid that even fluke has been touched by the long arm of the cheapness. Got to keep them shareholders happy!

[@Phat4040]

UPDATE: I could not believe that this caused my generator failure. I bought the same generator and plugged it into the new generator and it worked perfectly. There must have been an internal issue with my other generator. It’s off to the shop to figure out what happened to it...My GMVC80 Goodman is working perfectly now as well as everything is grounded...THANK YOU! Your advice was sound and I now think that something was wrong with the other generator, that the plug exposed. THIS METHOD YOU HAVE POSTED IS SOUND AND WORKS PERFECTLY. ------------------- I guess my praise was too soon. I heard a snap sound the very second I tried the plug you recommended. And the engine kept running but slowed down 20% from idle. None of the circuit breakers snapped, but now there is no power from any plug and the engine knocks hard when I try to start it. 😕 Looks like this turned my generator into a paperweight. Very upset right now... I checked the plug to be sure it’s wired right and it is...no idea what happened. I was so convinced this was going to solve my issue, and now my Ryobi 4000 inverter won’t start at all, and, voided my warranty. Something seriously didn’t work well... Any suggestions?

[@kpdvw]

it is only confusing to the unlearned and untrained in electrical Theory and application