Huawei Qiankun 3.0 - FSD's Nemesis In China Sets The Standard Others Must Follow

[@tonystorcke]

Streets in China are ridiculously complicated. Respect has to be given for this accomplishment.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Yeah, there's a lot going on, a lot to handle, complicated situations that can be very confusing to a car, but this did a very good job even with the number of takeovers.

[@Gi-Home]

Excellent evaluation, I was impressed with the difficulty of the test drive and even more impressed by your fair and accurate narration as you drove the car through the different driving conditions. I suspect that Huawei's autonomous driving capabilities will be improving rapidly as they go to end to end ai, looking forward to your next eval of Huawei's impressive ADAS system. Thank you.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Fair and even is what we do, and I don't think anyone else tries to test these systems as much as we do.

[@hehe-mq2bk]

what a beautiful car

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Agree. Just stunning.

[@Lost_Johnny]

I test drove an Aito with Huawei's system. I didn't get that much time but it seemed pretty good.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

It's the best in China by far. I purposefully give these systems a hard time, as complex as I can, because I know it can deliver a lot. Generally what it can't deliver is simply too complex or is caused by other road users doing the wrong thing.

[@faizurrahman7084]

Wow. Really impressive… looked smoother than FSD to me.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

It's a great system. I haven't had the chance to try FSD but would love to try it.

[@KaiUga-ni3hk]

I agree with one comment: take-over #5 is your mistake, not ADS. Let's be fair :-). The signs are crystal clear, especially the arrow on the road. And if you would have let the car do his job, you wouldn't have to wait behind the bus just a few seconds later and take-over #6 wouldn't have occured. Indeed, the biggest challenge for autonomous driving remains driver's willingness to "let it go".

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Knowing that road as well as I do (it's my local shopping mall), I know that the lane there is not used for cars, regardless of the road markings, which is often the case in China that adaptations are made to 'fix' a situation but without the permanent solution being implemented, and that leads to confusion like the bit at that moment. It's one of the main reasons why autonomous driving is so difficult here because cars expect a permanent landscape but often get a temporary butchered one and they have to make decisions about that based on what they're taught.

[@waynerm002]

Great video, it really showcased how the system in the car works. With a umber of cars having braking feature for intersections, it seems the 12 could benefit from a system to aid it when doing u-turns to avoid it turning when cars are approaching. Roundabouts are difficult for humans, so I can understand why the car would want you to take over in that scenario. I see they have an SUV coming out as well, any idea when you will have some info on that one?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

I like to test the system to the limits, especially when I know it is capable as this system is. The u-turns are a concern. It may well stop in time but by the car moving it can cause others to fear a collision and reaction which might cause another collision. I don't want to be responsible for that. But it does need sorting to do those safely. I'm going to get the 07 as soon as I possibly can. No drives yet though.

[@beal131]

Thanks for this review I am eagerly waiting for the RD6 here in Australia

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Did you comment on the wrong video by mistake or did you watch both? Haha

[@ropi4524]

Impressive development status. Should work in densed areas in Central Europe too. Thx for the video.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

You're welcome. Would certainly do a good job in the organised roads of Europe.

[@unexplainedwearenotalone3537]

hey man very nice test no bad at all looks amazing from nothing is very good i like bravo huawei.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

They've done a great job.

[@stevewhitmill2037]

Great video🙂

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Thank you. The car did most of the work.

[@MyTraveLws]

👏👏

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Did very well this.

[@yome1562]

Thanks, very interesting! Love the 12. Even more than the 11 because the boot seems more practical, although still small for my needs. I find the autopilot very capable but not really superior to the XNGP. True that XNGP deactivates in some roads, although you can also create a valet route to make it functional even there. But I find XNGP handles similarly and does tries roundabouts. Perhaps XNGP is a bit less confident, a bit hesitant sometimes. But both systems are very powerful. What's the computer power of the avatar 12?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Yeah. In my experience, XNGP has less roads and is more cautious, though it's not far behind this system. This one seems confident but in a good way, it makes better progress and can be used far more widely. With XNGP we ended up on a roundabout we didn't intend to be on but it did at least go around it by itself until I intervened to turn onto the main road. I'll test XNGP again in Kunming next time I get a chance and see how it does on this route if it's open to take it. Believe this has 508TOPS, twin Orin-X chips.

[@yome1562]

Thanks a lot! Looking forward for your coming test of XNGP. My experience with roundabouts in Guangzhou is not the worst, but when incorporating to a road or when passing a big vehicle shows too much hesitation. Not sure if this is related to the computer power. During my selection process, the Xpeng G9 won over the Avatr on practicality: I needed a spacious boot 😅. But the Avatr was a tough contender 😂

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@yome1562 Haha, everyone has their own needs. XNGP was born in Guangzhou, that's my only caveat, though to be fair you can never learn Guangzhou. It's basically a city of roadworks that people need to live around.

[@havencat9337]

this car looks super nice on the outside!

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Agreed. We have a full review of it. You can check it out.

[@marikuraba]

is that a simulated engine sound?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

It is. You can turn that on and off but I quite like the V8 version. I forgot to turn it off for the video

[@JianYZhong]

Thanks, very impressive indeed. Would it be possible for you to interview someone from Huawei one day, and get them to explain how Huawei developed their self-driving system, and future development plans. Would they stop using LiDAR eventually, or expect lidar costs to come down and be standard part of full self-driving?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

I'll see what I can do but I haven't yet been able to make any connections with Huawei, though I'd love to have that interview. Regarding lidar, in future I anticipate it will be optional as a safety choice. XPeng are moving to optional lidar and Nio's self-driving boss told me they see lidar as like an extra airbag. Cars can do most of self-driving with vision only but lidar adds an extra layer of safety that can spot things in the road in poor conditions like at night, in fog, or in heavy rain, so it's something that could prevent the accident with the Tesla where it hit a truck that had fallen over.

[@johnbaker5533]

Nice to see progression but it seems way of FSD levels currently. I would guess FSD would have have 1 or 2 maybe takeovers for that sort of route in the US compared to the dozen or so there. I didn't think they were that complex situations tbh. Often empty straight roads as you say. Loved the detailed line info and clear indication of what it was doing. Too many bongs but that is Chinese cars in general. All that said love to see these videos and keep them coming. Progress is the key to these. How does it compare to the fully autonomous solutions over there the Baidu ones, etc.?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

We'll have to see how FSD copes when it's finally legal here but I'm sceptical it will do any better. I haven't been in one of the full Baidu robotaxis yet so can't really say how good they are, but they are limited to certain areas. I'm hoping to test the Jiyue 07 soon with the latest Apollo system to see how that compares.

[@alphaomega1969]

Tesla would have a nervous breakdown in china because of complexity lol

[@alphaomega1969]

Tesla FSD is a Chinese open source AI software code sold to Elon Musk, Elon Musk was furious when found out he had to pay for it,the Chinese engineer told Elon Auto Pilot and FSD are two different thing lol After the Chinese engineer instal the programme and left, Elon accused the Chinese engineer of stealing his own FSD lol

[@alphaomega1969]

Not only that but Tesla is full of BYD parts also china is the only country to use 95% full automation in production facility for maximum profit which Tesla is using. Tesla, spaceX, Starlink, Solar City, Neuralink, The Boring Company and Optimus Robot are all Chinese startup investment to boost US economy due to trade deficit. The old days of US investing in china are over and china is the one investing in US economy now.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@alphaomega1969 Do you have a source for that? I'd like to read up on it.

[@waynerm002]

Driving (or walking) in China is not the easiest thing to do, bikes, mopeds and bicycles are always doing their own thing and going against traffic, I have to say though, I notice this behavior in a few South East Asia countries. Some bikes that don't seem to be designed for highways are on the highway shoulders and like in your other Avatr video, driving against traffic. The system seems to work well in most cases, that is great. Highway driving is where I would use it although, it does a great job in the city too.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Personally I find these systems more comforting on the highway. In the city they still need babysitting, which is stressful, so it'll take some time before we get full autonomy all over exactly because other road users are humans and are impatient, don't follow rules, and act aggressively at times. But if you can manage it here, you can manage it anywhere

[@jfbaro2]

I wondering why not ALL Chinese car makers invest on a single shared FSD platform

[@jiaao86]

It is because there is reasonable competition for better progress, and only one will only become uninspired and monopolized.

[@jfbaro2]

@@jiaao86 they all lose together then

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Nah, they all win. Many have gone in with Huawei already. They'll win out eventually.

[@petewenzel2725]

@@InsideChinaAutoHuawei benefits from its scale, vertical integration, its unparalleled R&D capacity and its brand reputation (I’d guess Chinese people would trust a Huawei FSD system more than one developed by just some carmaker). And Huawei’s ability to integrate their software with their own hardware is a huge advantage. Everyone else is relying on NVIDIA or Horizon Robotics.

[@teofilol2666]

​@@jfbaro2first thing first, WHAT IS FSD??? We're talking about autonomous driving here, stick to the topic

[@NiejakiDD]

The rules on city roads are horrible - scooters appearing everywhere, obeying no rules whatsoever, even going in the opposite direction in the same road 😨 A lot of time must pass before FSD will be allowed in China.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

I think it will struggle personally when it comes but let's see. The systems could do this by themselves but since humans exist in their space messing things up they have to adapt.

[@metricstormtrooper]

Can you turn the stupid "Engine Noises" OFF?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Yeah, my bad. Had them on beforehand and forgot to turn them off. Honestly I like them on actually. After 2 minutes they feel like a nice background burble, though that doesn't really come through on the video.

[@deltajohnny]

It looks very promising! 👏👏👏 I think that the car should brake a little bit in the zebra crossings, just in case some pedestrian is about to cross... In 22:39, if I drive, I would slightly reduce my speed, just in case some vehicle does not stop in his red light... I saw that you also looked to the left, just in case... I guess that the video camera and lidars have the situation under control, but... 😅😅 Thank you very much for the very complete and useful video 👏👏

[@InsideChinaAuto]

It's a great system. Definitely some room to polish things up like the zebra crossing as you said.

[@electricvehiclesug256]

Does it use mapping like waymo or can drive any where like Tesla?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Can go anywhere.

[@PhilippZ]

The operation and graphics are very similar to Tesla’s FSD. Who copied whom?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

All systems have roughly the same look. There are only so many ways you can maximise the usage of a square for good operation. Saying people copied Tesla is like saying Tesla copied Android and iPhone.

[@cwdjdsd-36321cs]

China has long commercialised L4 driverless robo taxis. Baidu is the world's biggest robot taxi operator. Tesla didn't even introduce their so-called robo taxis.

[@GingerRuss75]

Wonder how long it is before Tesla buys/rents a Chinese FSD system.....

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Doubt Elon's pride would accept such a thing.

[@johnlabernik4599]

Based on what I’ve seen here, and driving FSD 12.5.2.1 every day, the current Tesla system is more advanced.

[@guy-iw2qh]

What are its limitations? Can it be activated on every road in china? Does it have a speed limit?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

No speed limit. It'll follow the signs but you can increase the speed yourself. It works on pretty much every road in China, though disengages before roundabouts at least.

[@KaiUga-ni3hk]

Speed limit of the system is 130km/h. As in China only 120km/h are allowed (with some tolerances), 130km/h is sufficient for entire China.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@@KaiUga-ni3hk Certainly no need to go faster. There are race tracks for that behaviour

[@sspoonless]

You failed to notice the pedestrians queued to cross that had to wait for the car to speed past them instead of yielding to them.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

In these videos I let the car do what it does to test for those exact things and take over only if it is dangerous. It should be mentioned that, while zebra crossings have the sand rights of way in China as in Europe, they're rarely observed. People usually wait for cars to pass knowing they won't stop for them. That needs to change and at some crossings there are cameras to catch such offenders, but I just wanted to add the context of why I don't step in there unless for safety reasons. I need to see if the system will recognise and wait or not.

[@yogrissha]

The way it didnt let pedestrians go next to that bus can get you a fine from the camera in some places

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Indeed. It stopped on the crossing so I drove through so as not to block it, but it should be wary of stopped vehicles and pedestrian crossings and approach slowly.

[@JimmyDoyel-by2cp]

One think I find it funny is that the car has a Chinese accent. Ridiculous, yes, but kinda endearing in a dark humour kinda way.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Indeed. Feels like a computer generated voice though somehow

[@Avarter123]

Are you based in kunming? Seems a strange city to choose for a foreigner

[@InsideChinaAuto]

I am based in Kunming, yes, but I'm not like most other foreigners. Sure, Shanghai is great and easy to live in, but it's hot as hell in summer. I'm pretty much a local, wife and kids here, and I value my comfort over everything else, and there's no better city in China for year-round amazing weather, beautiful scenery and great food.

[@ecarpo3479]

I don't think that "bike lane" was a bike lane, the bike lane was on the right. They probably put that barrier there to stop people stopping and blocking the lane causing everybody to have to move lanes and causing congestion, ironically everyone is now just totally avoiding the lane. I honestly am surprised how poorly it handled some situations, from my testing, my Nio is better on the latest software than this. The two takeovers at the beginning were strange and not that complex, the part where it braked sharply where there should have been traffic lights but weren't was also strange (it probably didn't help that their were no road markings, that is something these systems really struggle with on wide roads without road markings). The pedestrian crossing was handled terribly, I have noticed the systems generally won't stop unless somebody has entered the crossing, if they are just waiting they don't stop but they do slow which gives pedestrians the impression you are going to give way but then doesn't. In that situation though the bus was still stopped and it should have given more time and crossed slower to make sure there were not more pedestrians. (noticed you said you accelerated through that crossing, so maybe not as bad as I initially thought, would be interesting to know how it would have handled that without intervention). When I was doing test drives around 6 months ago, I tested the Avatr11 and the self driving was by far the best, I think they were the first to release the city self driving so that might have been why it felt much better.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Well, by comparison you'll very soon see the exact same route completed by the latest NIO ET7, and it failed in far more places than the AVATR did. It's absolutely not a better system by any stretch of the imagination in my experience. The road markings are, for me, one of the big reasons ADAS systems are a long way from becoming mainstream and 100% capable. A system is trained on the rules of the road and if those rules are applied inconsistently, ADAS systems cannot comprehend acceptable solutions like humans can, and certainly not as quickly.

[@ecarpo3479]

@@InsideChinaAuto that’s surprising, did you do it on the latest software (banyan3) and with it fully unlocked (it’s restricted if your account doesn’t have enough experience or has penalties for not paying attention/holding wheel etc etc.). I would assume they would give you the full access but I’ve seen other people do reviews and it’s clearly not on the full software. Will be interesting to see it doing the same route as a comparison though. Clear road markings are definitely very important, but I think that’s something that it should be able to do in the future. The more intuitive observations to the environment and other motorists and its adversity to risk in different situations is going to be much harder.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@ecarpo3479 It may have been pre-Banyan 3 because I recorded it before the Chengdu auto show but I know Banyan 3 came out the day before the show I think.

[@stevenbarrett7648]

Yep, scary dangerous then, be useful for tourists especially us RHD folk as an assist when driving on the other side of the road with strange road signs but apart from that I wouldn't be as trusting as you. Maybe sell it as a laxative as well !!!!!

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Haha. Just driving in China in general is equivalent to taking a laxative at times. This does a very impressive job of handling what it's like at the moment.

[@Egal0190]

Around April/May there were news reports that 200.000 Nios are now allowed to use the autonomous driving feature on Chinese roads. But since then i haven't heard about it anymore. Are Nio drivers actively using it en masse or don't we hear about it, because it isn't that useful yet and people are rarely using it, because it still takes too many interactions or something like this?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

We have a video testing it in Kunming coming very soon. Stay tuned. Already recorded, just working through my backlog.

[@ecarpo3479]

I would say Nio's latest version of their software is as good if not better than this. The new update that came out the end of last month was a big improvement. I have got some raw footage on my channel that shows Nios software, it's still not really up to the level where a confident driver would bother using it though. If you are less confident and don't like driving it's really becoming usable. This systems main problem is navigating wider roads with no or poor road markings, this is somewhere they need to significantly improve. The problem is there are many instances when driving where instinct or subtle actions can imply meaning to other motorists or pedestrians, these systems obviously can't interpret or carry out these things and I can't see how they will ever be able to.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@ecarpo3479 I have the same feeling as you regarding the subtle signals humans give and how others react to them. Have to disagree on the Nio being better though, and you'll see that in my video.

[@EJFJ-Corporation]

Now Nio and Xpeng Motors collaborate efficiently together, they both got improvements because of others, they each exchange good things! You will see the XNGP of the Xpeng Tianji XOS 5.4 version...

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@@EJFJ-Corporation Yup. Next time I get an XPeng in Kunming I'll see if this same route is available so I can compare but it wasn't open on all roads in Kunming last time I got one.

[@ArslanSattar-v5b]

Automatic blnce 6 piece 4 whel teler,

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Not sure what you're saying.

[@gokhansoydan7494]

Otonom sürüşte hatalar var. Lakaları hızlı geçmekte ve rota yol durumu stabil değil

[@InsideChinaAuto]

I like to test the system to its extremes to see how it handles edge cases.

[@ArslanSattar-v5b]

Currento moteror double color prisamings

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Not sure I get it.

[@Electric_camper]

It's doing 38 in 15 Zone on that taxi lane. Lane changes are GTA style. I'll never gonna like FSD Systems. Maybe when I would be shot and need a drive to the hospital 😅 I think you should drive yourself or you take a bus. Being in an FSD car is totally not relaxed.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

100%, especially right now when the regulations still require you to be responsible for the car. It's like babysitting a child in a shop full of glass and ceramics.

[@Ozplanman1]

Not impressed that your eyes were off the road for a significant time whilst you reset the destination, very dangerous that it permits that whilst on the move

[@InsideChinaAuto]

The car was still in autonomous mode, just not the full mode. Unfortunately all cars allow you to do that.

[@AlexisUrena]

This reminds me of FSD 11 from a couple of years ago. Happy to see others at least try.

[@teofilol2666]

Tesla fsd still have a lot of catching up to do. You're disillusioned.

[@AlexisUrena]

@@teofilol2666 Wait, is this is a serious answer? I use FSD everyday navigating in and around NYC, and it's miles more capable than Anything shown on this video. The car is pretty at least.

[@teofilol2666]

​@@AlexisUrenait's your mouth, you can say whatever you want.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

FSD couldn't do what this does in China. On organised roads it'll work, but not in the chaos of China.

[@AlexisUrena]

@@InsideChinaAuto Organized roads? 😂 You clearly have no idea what it's like driving in NYC.

[@johntaphouse5235]

have lights to show the car is in fsd mode ?? hell no. its either on the road like everyone else or its a hazzad to life.. dont treat them any different. neither will pedestrians know or care about a blue light anyway

[@InsideChinaAuto]

But they are different because they're not yet adept at handling all situations, and many drivers in China are very impatient, so these cars will get locked in situations if nobody gives them time to complete some manoeuvres that require more time. But you're right, there needs to be education on what the lights mean because I think most people now have no idea what Li Auto's blue lights signify.

[@johntaphouse5235]

@@InsideChinaAuto your right they are inept.. and just like L drivers untl they become ept they should have there movements curtailed...i wasnt aware he meant have these warning lights during just these test phases.. sure in that case... but still will other cars and pedestrians know or care

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@@johntaphouse5235 In China likely not, they don't care whether you're even in their vicinity approaching at speed in many cases, but the hope is that it would just help ease the transition. People expect human behavior and autonomous cars don't behave like humans so they need to be aware that decisions made might not be what they expect.

[@johntaphouse5235]

@@InsideChinaAuto no your right i get it.. we have to respect learners and asian women drivers and expect them to be insane behind the wheel.. but as you say yourself people dont care if your there, should and would they care about an fsd vehicle.. .. they should be perfect before wide spread deployment...i woudl go as far as say they would have to e better than a human driver.. a human has a right to be in error, culpable but righteous.. does AI

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@@johntaphouse5235 Lots of ethical things to consider. Can it get perfect without real life training? Can a person drive an F1 car because they played a video game? I think all these things take time. I don't see 100% autonomous driving, meaning no person every road open, being available any time soon.

[@ArslanSattar-v5b]

Miror zoom.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Not sure you can zoom

[@ArslanSattar-v5b]

Radar cam

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Radar cam?

[@stoner27th]

First non edited Chinese FSD video, if this is the best from China, you'd realize that Tesla's FSD is really way ahead.

[@cwdjdsd-36321cs]

Well they are not. There are many videos of Tesla self-driving cars crashing on numerous occasions. You can hardly see that issue with These. Plus china has long commercialised L4 driverless robo taxis. Baidu is the world's biggest robot taxi operator. Tesla didn't even introduce their so-called robo taxis.

[@EJFJ-Corporation]

Tesla is only pretending, not doing anything accurate for now, the driver is fully responsabilized so the driver is driver even if he badly thinks he does not have to care about the security: he just have to touch the driving wheel, but now Chinese are much better and not creating any accident! Xpeng Motors is soaring any risk, so appearing to be less efficient than others, but it will soonly be much better, it is already the most effective over for now, and Nio and Huawei take it as a reference and try to follow, as Tesla does with AI introduced since 2021 by Xpeng Motors. Lot of bad informations about EJFJ Autonomous Driving which introduced the 5 ADAS Levels scales on February 4th, 1994 and as given to BMW Group and Philips to be realized, but it has been blocked by Microsoft Corporation since 1994 and badly parodied especially by Mercedes Benz and Tesla...

[@stoner27th]

@@EJFJ-Corporation nah.. this needs an intervention after a few minutes of driving, Tesla factory test drivers have already driven for weeks for any intervention.

[@matty8920]

Not on Tesla FSD level but pretty impressive. Needs to be 1 mistake per 100k kilometers someday.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

If any system gets to that level in China, they've nailed it.

[@arturoherrera3616]

You yalk too much. You don't need to describe everything, we can already see it. Just let it drive and only take over when you have to. I had too stop watching, too fustrating

[@InsideChinaAuto]

If you don't like the style of video, you're welcome to watch the other ADAS test videos that the other English-language content creators don't create.

[@teofilol2666]

3:36 seems like the fake engine sound was not loud enough

[@InsideChinaAuto]

It's more an internal sound effect.

[@floxshuilee1760]

来预习一下我豹8的表现 :D

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Looking forward to trying that.