Hub Drive VS Mid Drive eBike motor systems

[@ajemohaltom3560]

Refreshing real world perspective. Its all about the stress. Bikes are nice because you can really see which parts of the system you're stressing and make an informed purchase. Nice to hear you're a ebike commuter and prefer a hub motor. It's funny how moving to a new apartment (and thus commute) really changes the stresses on the bike.

[@hyflyin1]

THANK YOU !! You are the first honest unbiased reviewer - Most are so many mid-drive lovers that fail to mention the very important fact that a "mid- drive ebike goes NOWHERE unless you are pedaling it!!" Why do they avoid that important issue??? Thanks for being an honest reviewer. I am 70 years old - with a 1000W Bafang rear hub motor Ebike and after I resolved the known AXLE SPINOUT problem from a high torque hub motor with a Grin Ebike torque arm (on Amazon) the only serious problem I had went away. I would never trade this in on a mid drive. I do pedal as much "as I can", but when I have had enough, my powerful hub drive motor takes me home like a moped !!!

[@CrispyDangles]

Wow this was really helpful, so many people swear mid drives are elite in every way, but I couldn't find one at a decent price. I'm deciding between the Rad Mini, Sonders Fold X, Wing Freedom Fatty, and iGo Fat Freddy, which are all hub drives.

[@squee222]

I can't believe you wouldn't mention gearing at all in this video. This is the number one pro of a mid drive. the motor works within the bike's normal drive train, and gets all the benefits of a gear selection based on your needs.

[@lesliekirwan6583]

squee222 u

[@MrKRSO]

Blue Monkey Bicycles But you'll have better acceleration and regulation of speed when the motor have multiple speeds, and not just one speed like the hub motor.

[@squee222]

There is a difference between a mechanical gearing and Electronically controlled "speeds" - the latter which has no effect on the maximum torque curve of the drive train and simply restricts voltage or current to nerf the performance - creating "speeds". This though is not gearing and the lower speeds provide no mechanical assistance on hills.

[@squee222]

Nerf = artificially restrict performance. Like when you put a speed limit on a vehicle, or play a game with a handicap.

yes, but switching gears is much easier on a hub drive, because the motor puts no force to the chain while you shift.

[@moneymaster807]

absolutely love this guy the info he gives is very accurate and true. too many people with no idea will jump straight into the mid drive kits saying yeah mines better than yours and all that macho nonsense. i personally ride a rear hub 350w and it's powerful as you like. climbs hills and rockets along on the flats

[@matsv201]

The best one is a mid drive, with a front and back hub drive :D

[@derbersdiscoveries5938]

matsv201 make it!!!!

[@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing]

3 wheel drive on your 2 wheel conveyance. Yep, I approve.

[@racerx9223]

That's what I'm saying, with three good batteries, selectable manager, one throttle and lights with signals, true Enduro tires for longevity, 65-80+ top speed would be great and 100+ miles of range also.. I wonder how long before this is easily done and with less weight..?

[@zaydabbas1609]

How 2 kill batteries fast

[@ryderno1640]

Im thinking about a middrive and a t least one hub in the rear, so that would be either 2 battery's or connect the motors to one but im still trying to figure that out

[@MoultrieGeek]

Outstanding presentation, very professional. I will harp on the fact you didn't mention gear ratios for the mid-drive but otherwise you did a fine job of explaining the pros and cons of each.

[@justinschiltz1053]

I can't believe this video's impeccable music choice.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

The all-caps makes it legit

[@AlanBiffable]

Mid drives don't always require you to pedal, the iZip bikes have the option of a throttle control now, the motors have an additional ratchet so they can turn without the pedals needing to turn.

[@RavindraKempaiah]

The sprocket equalizing system on the Haibike is designed to keep the wheelbase short and increase the height so the chain doesn't slap against the chainstay. If you look at some of the Old Easy Motion EVO Jumpers, one of the chainstays is lower than the other but recently, they lowered both chainstays. If you use a SES pulley, you don't need to design a different chainstay.

[@johnw65]

Question... Will a hub-drive work with a mid-drive on the same bike with dual throttles? What I'd like to do is put the 750W hub motor on the front of a BeeCool Challenger, then put a mid-drive on the back wheel, Giving me both options plus AWD. Another thought, Is it possible to use a CVT on a mid-drive ebike? Chains are loud and they break. Transmissions are mechanical, heavy and expensive. CVT's are lightweight, cheap, quiet and seem like the perfect solution...?

[@DavidCobb2011]

I was a confirmed mid-drive fan, but couldn't afford one. I found a great deal on an eMotion FS 650b (with rear hub motor) and bought it - and here's where I was converted to the rear-hub drive fan club. Lifting or just unweighting the front wheel is important when riding trails - to get over obstacles. With a mid motor, the weight of the battery and motor are forward of the pivot point (the rear axle); whereas with a rear hub motor, only the battery weight is forward of the rear axle, making a noticeable difference to the amount of effort lifting the front wheel. A good discussion video Blue Monkey folks! Thanks.

[@s.a.7353]

Good info, well presented! I’m not going to be doing any trail blazing (indoors or outdoors-great recovery haha), so this was perfect for understanding weight/balance and performance issues.

[@2awesome292]

Solution to uneven weight from hub motor on 1 wheel: Put 2 hub motors on!

[@sylvestervoigt9836]

The Hub drive that I put on my Burley Hepcat recumbent caused for some extra Unsprung weight. I did like how it was the 20' front wheel so that gave it a 20/27th climbing advantage.

[@pcuser80]

2 hub motors + mid drive!

[@sneakyg1250]

YES!

[@TheRealFOSFOR]

@@survivor2022 Haven't got an Ebike yet but definitely 2 x 250w. Better weight distribution + better traction. Kinda like a 4x4 car. Only negative is the extra work with the electronics but I think that's no biggie either.

[@michalewalker8852]

One better put two hub that are regenerative breaking and only as back up motor and then a mid drive bealt not change as main. The perfect ebike. Make a solar parasailing attachment and fly down after climbing 9 thousand feet charge the battery as you glide down to a solar bike charger battery swap out station. Haha

[@stevemorris270]

Missed the most important difference: Mid-Drive motors have a transmission (gearing) to assist them.

[@ogztnr5581]

this was the most important ,and this hub motor does the best

[@cemox007]

Exactly, hub motors provide fixed amount of tork whereas mid-drive motors take advantage of gearing. Very important difference indeed.

[@adilkanouni5461]

Respect to you. Not taking no sides.you a totally corp free. The true meaning of an honest service to the viewers. Great youtuber type 👍👍

[@TechnoTempleStudios]

Mid drives are overwhelming superior when it comes to efficiency as it has variable gearing available which gives you the best torque range whereas a hub is basically a one speed drive which limits climbing ability and top speed compared to mid drive of same motor power.

[@tallcool1jeff]

Also what is he talking about that you have to pedal on a mid Drive?

[@twayland6186]

​@@tallcool1jeff I know I'm late but on a mid drive the crankset needs to be turning when the bike is giving power assist.

[@TapioBlue]

I used a front hub motor and you essentially have an all wheel drive bike. It's awesome in the snow and sand.

[@drd1924]

Good point

[@ACplanet]

ive done 1000's of miles on both. mid drive wins easy. unsprung weight, weight balance etc... 30mph off road and big jumps dont bother the mighty bbshd! with a megarange freewheel, it will also climb the steepest of hills. yesterday i was climbing a hill while leaning forward as much as i could and it was lifting the front wheel trying to throw me off the back while climbing. no chance of that with a hub motor!

[@okallup8012]

Which bike?

[@davidz5470]

Howdy, do you know if you can coast and let the motor do the work with a bafang motor?

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

You mean use a throttle? Sit down, twist the throttle and have the motor propel you without pedaling yourself? Yes, most bafang systems include a throttle.

[@SomeGuy-tz8dz]

@@BlueMonkeyBicycles , a decade or so ago I was doing some research into assisted bicycles. At that time, for Western Canada and the Pacific Northwest states, the maximum speed that an "assisted" bike was allowed to do was 20 mph (32 kph) on the flat without the rider pedalling. What is the current law where you are? And do you have any info in other places?

[@davidhandvrkerne5912]

@@BlueMonkeyBicycles How about Cargo bike like Winther Kangaroo Luxe, correct me if I'm wrong, that rear Hub drive is best for this kind of bike?

[@mino73T11]

Well said but let me add two points: with mid drive you don't have higher risk of damage to the chain only, you also have much quicker wear of all the transmission, chain spurs and pinions; though, the possibility of switching to lower gears not only allows higher torque on the wheel but also higher efficiency at very low speed (less consumption for the same power output). Second: hub mounted motors, especially the more "torquy" ones that are usually heavier, can disturb the work of the damper on a full suspended bike, as the increased mass of the wheel will tend to make the whole wheelmotor bounce. In my personal experience, better have quite a sophisticated suspension, where you can separately set compression dampening (quite tight) and extension dampening (quite low), so that any bump won't easily throw the wheel in the air but the wheel itself will come back down as quickly as possible. Tire pressure is important as well. My personal opinion: the feasibility of hubs is much higher than mids, I've come back from a wood with a dismantled derailleur (no throttle control here in Europe, 250 W and PAS sensor by law!) by just spinning pedals. A high torque rear hub motor, central/front mounted battery and a proper shock absorber are a good set even for medium to hard offroad. For the hardest trails, a mid motor will make the difference.

[@Mark-qv4bn]

Flats are a pain on hub motors. I just flip the bike upside down and fix it. I live in the desert, sealant is a must here. Until I get 20x4 inch street tires, I might run tire liners. Other than that, hub motors can last many years.

[@jzbreezio]

Love this cutthroat video. Nice touch with 1:10 a visual of the chinese sweat shops working hard for the crap us consumers spend our money on!

[@luigiprovencher]

Can you have a hub drive in the front and a mid drive together?

[@covercalls88]

Good general info for those starting out. I've been riding E- bikes for over 4 years and for me the hub mounted motors are better when riding on the road. No breakdown so far, little maintenance. Problem is hub motors are heavy, require a bit more battery, and don't climb hills well. If you do more than 25% off road, forget the hub mount. A friend of mine likes to off road a lot and has a mid drive and I've used it and it is nice, good hill climbing, good acceleration, better handling and less weight. But I also see the strain it can put on other parts.

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

Thats the beauty of todays eBike industry...choice. Its never been a better time to create or simply buy an eBike. The variety is amazing. Now...if only the cost of replacement battery packs would come down.

[@Antanix]

Hub Drive PRO: easy to install - 2WD drive if mounted on the fork CONS: shorter lifespan (stress on gears and bearings)

[@SternLX]

Chain breaking problems? Answer: KMC E10-EPT(good for 8-10 speed) ... it was literally designed for mid-motor E-Bikes.

[@reinplat]

Most eloquent bike mechanic ever.

[@Alksbbch]

Hub bikes can have regenerative brakes. For mid bikes i harder make regenerative braking.

[@aaronfuksa2047]

I've already seen people experiment with regen vs freewheel, even on a motorcycle!. you will equally or in some cases extend range with a freewheel. only difference is less braking on pads. everything else I've mastered.

[@richardbednarek3237]

XXX love

[@clinttidan]

I was looking to buy a mid drive ebike but the reason i want the bike is to go up very steep hills. So i think will get a hub drive so the chain won't break. I never heard this before thanks for the very useful and informative video

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

I was actually wrong about the reason chains break on mid drives. It's not stress from the torque, it's from inexperienced riders changing gears at the wrong time.

[@erikwithakayy]

I just test rode a 250 Watt Mid Drive against a 500 watt Hub Bike (both very expensive bikes) I took them on some steep hills and it wasn't even close, the mid drive killed it despite the weaker motor.

[@rodstartube]

Mid Drive fan

[@magiccheeseball]

these people are saying all this science stuff but have no simple common sense, what you're saying is proof, as long as the motor has plenty of torque gears are going to be better than no gears

[@praftman]

You're not accounting for peak power output, which is often multiples of the quoted constant output. You think you're comparing 250 watt power vs 500, but you're not.

[@JackPineSavagest]

This all depends on who mad the hub not all are created equal.

[@Jasonoid]

Here I am watching this video and I am thinking to myself....'man that looks like Corner Canyon in Draper, Utah'. Then I read the description....You guys are here in SLC. Thanks for the video!

[@TimpBizkit]

A couple of disadvantage of a mid drive I can think of is the high powered ones might wear out your chain and sprockets more quickly, also you can't do regenerative braking with a mid-drive.

[@minnil7927]

I have a mid drive and have over 1000 miles on a chain and wheel from 1998 and everything is still good

[@TimpBizkit]

@@minnil7927 since September 2020 when I got the kit my odometer reads 3280 miles, not counting a few when the sensor came off. The annoying thing about the BBS02 is how easily it comes loose on the bottom bracket. Mine won't tighten up now as I think the gripper lines on the bike have worn. I think trying to restrain all that torque around an inch and a half wide circle is a losing game anyway. It would be better to have a spacer bracket around the under tube. I just wedge a piece of wood between the motor and frame. It also protects the frame from dents.

[@4pharaoh]

Just a guess: The stress is higher on the motor side of the cog (at 6:19) than on the wheel side of the cog (imagine the cog is connected with a spring to the frame so every time the motor torqued the cog would move down due to the extra stress). Without the cog the chain could break anywhere from the motor to the axel (thus: chainsaw vs leg). with the cog, it will break between the cog and the motor... no severed limbs. Or...

[@EcoMouseChannel]

So what I've learned is that I need a front hub, a rear hub and a mid drive and a back pack full of batteries.

[@tracezachdaniels4264]

bahahahahahaahha...

[@saintkevin5286]

@Phil M I the

[@santerixdxd]

Phil M ok boomer

[@TheNone724]

@Phil M Well comparing bicycles to motorcycle is bit unfair but it means that electric bike can also be motorcycle. For 3000 you can build your own or ask someone from Endless Sphere to build one for you or get parts for it so you local bike mechanic can put parts together. Like motor mxus 3000w with ferrofluid and hubsink, controller sabvoton 72150 with accessories and ready battery, self built or ask someone from forums to make custom battery for you. Also get newer bike with hydraulic brakes because this needs all the stopping power. With instant torque grom will feel like a tractor.

[@danfield6030]

@Santeri Miettinen you idiots. Boomers are mostly too old to be on KZbin. Baby boomers are 70-80 years old for God's sake. Tired of this ignorance

[@matthewsalmon2013]

A mid drive will always be at a mechanical disadvantage because cassette rings are never bigger that drive rings. E.g. a 90Nm mid drive with a 46t drive chainring and a 34-11t cassette will apply 90Nm*34t/46t = 66.5Nm wheel torque in the lowest gear speed (and 21.5Nm in the highest gear). Wheel size also effects torque effectiveness. 60Nm wheel torque on a 27.5in (70cm) wheel is only 85.7N wheel force vs 118N on a 20in (50.8cm) wheel. The wheel force is what really counts for accelerating the bike and rider. Acceleration equals force/mass.

[@robbae9307]

mid drives can also give more torque if the motors are similarly spec-ed as they can take advantage of the larger chain rings

[@jamescleary9063]

Robbae 8 no no

[@ferrellms]

Wrong. Torque of DC motor is the same regardless of rpm. This is not a gasoline engine that produces more torque at higher RPM. Please educate yourself on electric motor torque.

[@deanwild4971]

You are correct that it doesn't develop any more torque at the crank but it can deliver more torque to the wheel because it's going through the gears.

[@johnbeedham3010]

I ride up steep hills at least weekly on bosch performance mid drive ebike and have not broken a chain in 18 months. I think you overstated the likelihood or risk of breaking a chain. My regular climb is 16 km and an educated guess is that it averages 8% gradient. I recently brought a chain wear gauge and the chain was not nearing the wear limit. I do however always carry a chain breaker and quick link when riding in the (remote) forests of South Eastern Australia!

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

I think it an bigger issue with off road racing but remember...this video comes from a shop with a repair facility and perhaps...this is what they see most with eBikes? Or at least often enough to mention.

[@randysmitchell4810]

You should take particular satisfaction that your presentations - your delivery - is so easy to follow - and understand. You sir - are an excellent teacher. T H A N K S

[@scottnorton3206]

Everyone with their comments and opinions... such noitalls. You, my friend, have a nice presentation style. Kudos to you and monkey. Keep up the good work.

[@tchiwam]

I am interested in the battery endurance between the 2. Maybe the hub drive may let you drive without driver power input compared to the central one.

[@waynefilkins8394]

If you're worried about balance you can just put the hub motor on the front wheel and batteries on one of those racks on the back of the bike. If you get lithium they are pretty similar in weight.

[@Mark-qv4bn]

I've never seen a front hub motor, other than 3 wheel trikes in the past using one. I'm happy with a hub motor on the rear.

[@waynefilkins8394]

@@Mark-qv4bn My bike has rear hub motor, but I remember when I was shopping for the kits the front ones were slightly cheaper. I think the only reason I'd ever get one is if I put one on both wheels for double the power lol

[@Mark-qv4bn]

@waynefilkins8394 I'm hoping to get years out of my new ebike. I'm over 65, and I just bought my first new ebike a few days ago. 6 months of not having one was hard, as I wrecked my first one. Life is good again. The first year, I kept 700 miles off my truck riding my ebike instead. Ride safe!

[@waynefilkins8394]

@@Mark-qv4bn Mine lasted like 4 years so far and still doing strong, so they seem to last quite a while. Be safe out there. Gotta pay a lot of attention on these things. Sometimes it's easy to just sit back and relax lol

[@12kenbutsuri]

I had to pay a lot for maintenance for the mid drive because the chain and geers wares and tares often because of the stress. I would get a hub from next time.

[@capone2488]

The extra gear on the bike is for the chain line to try and reduce pedal bob and other pedal interactions with the suspension

[@saksittichompoo3583]

The only correct answer around here;)

[@lunarme9831]

Mid drives the great but you should run with an 7 or 8 speed cassette as the chains are stronger and I've never broken one yet riding New Zealand's mountains. I run a BBs02 with upgraded controller fets, 40t bling to a 32-11 shimano cassette, On a upcycled Foes FXR Strongest frame ever. I'm Lovin it

[@makirichi]

Lunar me ~ That's what peoples should listening to, Someone that REALLY experiment the mid drive. I use BBS 02, repair it , replace parts in it and maintain the drivetrain to keep everything "Fun & Function" . For those who still reading, if you want to keep it simple, cheap and powerfully fun (half of the time in air), choose the bike you want to perform on, put a BBS02 or BBSHD, buy a good quality 7 0r 8 speed drivetrain and... put in your ears "Fly Me To The Moon - Frank Sinatra" kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5nbmpV-f7R4a6c and everything will be alright. P.S. for more freedom, build your own Battery pack and put it on a back pack. lots of money will left to buy you a drone and you'll come back home with the smile cause you got the deal... done. Got that?

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

Not all people. Many want to just throw their leg over something and go riding. Thiose with a serious off road ride need to maintain and tweak and are always modifying things for performance. Its not for everyone. Also...trail (and road) restrictions are upon us, likely due to those who ride 1000 or more watts and are tearing up the same trails as conventional riders. Dont get me wrong, I have several types of eBike but I try not to anger my fellow riders by showing some compassion on the uphill slogs.

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

But...you must use some finesse to keep the Rohloff from grenading...or maybe your BaFang is of lesser power?

[@markwilton4412]

I use a 3000W Cyclone on my downhill bike. Spot on about 8 speed. It is an awesome setup. I have high powered hub motored bikes with ferrofluid and hub sinks as well, but the Cyclone is much nicer on hilly and DH tracks.

[@scubatrucker6806]

I'm glad a came across this video because it answered some of my questions about both.👍👍 thank you

[@ruirodtube]

More differences come to mind: The Hub Motor gets every impact and vibration from the road, rocks, roots, etc. The Mid Motor is protected from the road. This improves durability. The Bosh Mid Motor has only one front chain ring. It doesn’t have a front derailleur. This substantially improves durability and simplicity. When the front chain ring gets worn out you only replace that small part. It’s quite amazing really. Also, the chain is very protected at the front and below.

[@silvergreylion]

A mid-motor will be impacted by everything the front wheel picks up and throws at it. In rainy weather, the front wheel will also spray a lot of water on it. Since it has to be ventilated somewhat, I can't imagine it can be 100% waterproof.

[@ledzepandhabs]

Hub drive for me, more power, more torque, easier to replace, more reliable less moving parts, modular components (controller) easier to replace/modify/upgrade, easily upgradeable motors, more weight on rear wheel great for traction, easier to lift front wheel, many many options when purchasing, easier on the drive train (no torque on chain), best of all THROTTLE!!!! All these things keep me in the hub camp.

[@RipsterSA]

A comfortable, natural speaking style. I like the honest comments inbetween, ie "I assume that's what it does; I'm not designer".. lol. Nice video!

[@jamcarlo4781]

Excellent. Respective LIKE for you

[@Big2009Gee]

Had both, rear hub drive is the only way to go.

[@forgetyourlife]

to many bent axles. I like front drive. Much stronger and independent of the gears. All wheel drive is fun also.

[@Spacegoat92]

Explain your reasoning Earthing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@ridesharebiz5317]

Great presentation. Thanks for sharing it on KZbin.

[@DipperDK]

Oh my, I absolutely love the presenter, what a great person! :D

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Me too. Thanks

[@alaskaebike1923]

We switched a few of our top tier Bosch eMTB's over to the Wipperman eSpecific chain and have been seeing better luck with that. Gotta keep that MD chain clean and pristine!

[@Spartan2x]

KMC X Series chains are known to hold up really well too.

[@Boss_Tanaka]

For those who want regenerative braking it s only possible with hub motors

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Troo dat

[@thisone3519]

My friends battery broke because of regen braking. Im good..

[@clerissonmesquita]

Thank you so much for your invaluable information, highly appreciate it, have a great day.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Thanks

[@Mr.Flipster]

I have a front 1000 watt hub allot cheaper than mid drive. have about 2500 miles on it still strong. 36 volt 15amph 24mph. made a bike trailer 2 take my 2 dogs with me.

[@jasonstoddard6198]

Pics please.

[@jasonstoddard6198]

Let's see

[@biluroy4455]

How much Mile done

[@Ucceah]

front hub drive is worth a mention too! con: comparably weak, because traction and not breking the fork limit how much power makes sense. no good choice for sporty off road driving. pro: cheap and easy to install on almost any bike. the added mass on the front wheel makes hands free riding incredibly stable. also works very well on roadbikes.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Covered in another video

[@FlyRidesUSA]

This video needs an update I think. You essentially make it sound like the second you take a mid drive motor up a hill you’re going to snap a chain when in reality there have been tests done to show that mid drive eBike drivetrains last only slightly shorter than their acoustic counterparts. With a properly maintained drivetrain you’re not just going to randomly snap a chain. Over time, sure. But again that’s the same as on any bike.

[@teenageguruproductions5120]

Fly Rides USA yeah I’ve ridden a mid drive for 2 years and never had my chain snap. Plus I know how to fix it if it does! Carry a chain breaker and easy link people!

[@rhettarten6550]

What's an "acoustic counterpart?"

[@FlyRidesUSA]

@@teenageguruproductions5120 Gotta know that trail maintenance!

[@FlyRidesUSA]

@@rhettarten6550 Haha we call "regular" bikes "acoustic bikes"

[@HectorSalcedo]

Fly Rides USA I agree with you! Mid-drive motors do put more force through the chain but it's not going to snap your chain. I have bikes with over a thousand hard ridden miles and the chain may have stretched, but never broken. Then I replace them as needed. Simple maintenance will prevent chain failures. Also, newer bikes are being equipped with eBike specific chains. THANK YOU KMC! Lastly, the small chainring on Haibike eBikes prevents the chain from hitting the chainstay/rear triangle when equipped with motors with small chainrings, like Bosch. When you assume, you're making an a...you know the saying.

[@divingsadie6977]

Awesome!!Thanks for your video.helps me get a better understanding of my new ebike. It is with 750 Watt high-speed motor!!

[@MIKEGREL]

I really enjoy front hub drive...I've tried the rest...and for me it was front wheel hub drive...

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

2kw front hub is too rich for my blood...

[@richardbailey2130]

There is a reason why in Europe you can only have a 250 W motor, especially if they are on the front wheel for versatility and conversion purposes. And seeing as they’ve been doing this longer than anyone, I chose a front wheel drive for general commuting on my 90’s Trek Hybrid with 18 speeds to assist. And I can get up any hill in this very hilly town of Prescott Arizona and I’m in my 70s!

[@scottcrowley3509]

Belt mid-drives are coming on strong. Quieter, stronger and longer lasting. No real maintenance either. Adds a bit to cost but the benefits are great.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

You're taking about belt drives instead of a chain, right? They are nice, but gearing options are limited, and dual suspension requires a lot of work. They are coming along though...

[@scottcrowley3509]

Blue Monkey Bicycles - yeah, I’m a bit puzzled why the belts aren’t more prominent yet. Perhaps a cost configuration issue but expect they will become more available as chains are just a pain generally. Hubs are ok for their purpose but not when you want or need torque and gearing when mountain/trailing etc.

[@nobrokenheartsforme]

Hub drives are a lot better imo, they are mass produced (which means there are a lot of poorly made ones but also a lot of well made ones) and that means they are cheap so you can easily and affordably replace one if something happens. Also they come in a lot of wattage ranges and sizes. One more thing is that with a mid drive motor you can only use 1 on a bike, with a hub motor you can use 2 and double the power and torque, although you will need a more voltage and capacity but if you are getting 2 hub motors you probably can afford better batteries.

[@IvarDaigon]

Another downside to hub drives is that if you buckle the wheel its really hard to replace because size and thickness are non standard. Also you need heavy duty spokes on the hub or you will end up with broken spokes when when you hit hard bumps (especially if your battery weight is also on the back wheel). Those spokes are also non standard and hard to find. The plus side for hubs is they can take as much power as the controller than throw at them.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

True dat!

[@Mark-qv4bn]

I got my first used fat tire folder almost 2 years ago. Don't buy used, I learned my lesson. Buy one where you can order parts, and accessories.

[@carpenterfamily6198]

Great video - thanks ! I'm still researching but am leaning toward a front wheel hub like those sold by LEED and Hill Topper. Can convert a plain ole bike, nice and easy.

[@AMvanRijsbergen]

Note: electric bycicle use the motor for paddle assistance it's not a motor bike, in the Netherlands you don't need to register and insure you bicycle if the motor has maximum of 250watt. The mid placed motor can be fitted with gears like a nexus 7 speed or a multi speed derailleur in combination with a 250w gives alot of choice shifting down when going uphill or heavily loaded bike

[@tallcool1jeff]

I don't know why you would bother putting a motor on a bicycle under 750 watts what's the point I went with 1,000 Watts and I love it I wouldn't want a little skimpy 250 watt motor just doesn't make sense to me.

[@mr.engineear0987]

@@tallcool1jeff are you stupid? Laws mate. in australia too you can only have 250w

[@prawny12009]

i have been thinking recently about fitting a front drive high output hub motor on a vintage moped like the honda pa50 (hobbit/camino) to make a kind of 2wd hybrid moped. The pa50's engine can be completely disengaged using a lever on the rear hub leaving only the pedals to provide drive. Although it is a 2 stroke engine the pa50 can get well over 100mpg in standard trim so should be even more efficient when coupled with an electric motor, allowing for silent emission free riding around town with the ability to hit around 45-50mph with light modifications to the engine for longer journeys.

[@paulanthonybridgebridge9109]

Just plonk a Rolls-Royce turbojet on it.

[@cometcal2]

Good idea. Have you thought of a front wheel kit that might be ideal to use?

[@m9078jk3]

Another advantage of mid drive motors using the chain is that they can vary torque so one can choose to have higher speeds on level terrain or shifting into a lower gear being able to climb hills. However now there are 2 speed (geared) hub motors becoming available that somewhat give this capability that mid drive motors that use the bikes gearing have. By the way I have had a Freehub ratchet mechanism failure (not a chain break though) and it was my meager 250 watt hub motor that helped me get home though I did have to walk with the bicycle up some hills. Now I have a 880 watt 2 speed hub motor and my hills are no problem.Amazingly I don't even need to shift into a lower gear anymore either even up hills.It's capable of going up my hills even without me pedaling though I do so. I am a city commuter and a cardiac patient too.

[@m9078jk3]

Blue Monkey Bicycles I purchased that 2 speed hub motor kit from Luna Cycle.Quite amazing too.

[@michelcote]

after having both I prefer hub motor for commuting and acceleration. Mid drive with the variable gearing are better for off road. I will switch back to hub drive because it's more peppy and fun to ride

[@λάδα]

Impressed by your compilation.

[@dardobartoli]

Thanks for sharing your expert knowledge, much appreciated.

[@aaaPcDoctor]

Great video and professional but with a big floor. HUB motors are generally not geared so the hub is a compromise between take off speed and top speed, a bit like driving a car stuck in 3rd gear - will pull away (under great strain) but have a floored top speed. HUB motors also suffer from poor water/mud/dirt intrusion. Mid drive do utilize the chain (as mentioned) but also use the gearing system (directly) so therefor are "geared" as they output the power through the front chain wheel. A massive market leader is the Bafang motor and now the latest BBSHD (like many of the others) can be used with throttle only (if for off road use - country/state and legislation dependent), full waterproof and DOES NOT need a specially built frame.

[@baqcasanke]

You don't "Have to pedal" with all mid drives. Only crappy ones. Good mid drives have PAS AND throttle. "A mid drive has to have a bike designed around it" Wrong again. The Bafang series fit almost all bikes. In any standard Bottom bracket, commuter bike, mountain bike, fat bike, road bike...

[@stevencoker754]

Baqca Sanke really thanks I'm wanting to buy a mid drive electric mike looked at trek but idk I want it to ride to work and for fun. ride in woods ect any suggestions

[@mrmoralman1]

Baqca Sanke my experience is the most expensive mid drives (bosch, yamaha, impulse, shimano) don't have a throttle option. Hardly crappy - altho quite boring and sterile. True the mid-drive bafang can be bolted on to most bottom brackets and comes with a throttle option, but they lack the torque sensor found on nearly all more expensive mid-drives. They deliver power in a more "unsophisticated" way - altho my next ebike week have this motor. So far I believe the Tongsheng mid drive is the only bolt on mid drive with a torque sensor, but is a bit of a pansy as you only have a choice of a 250w or 350w outputs.

[@MrCAHRLIE22]

Baqca Sanke ikr, mine is great too, am almost always on throttle, and i dont believe you can snap your chain unless youre going up an incredibly steep hill, i always change gears just like a car when i get to a hill so i put less stress on my chain

[@JkouFiles]

I just heard the part he said mid drives MOST you have to pedal

[@shirazenema3228]

I wish we could all be as smart as you, WRONG, i dont want to come across as a fuckwit!

[@easternwind4435]

I hope this channel blows up

[@vor-nachname]

1:02 Oh my God, these People must work as fast like a Machine. That is the Horror of this System.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Those jobs have been replaced by machines, actually. I went to China last year

[@freewill1114]

Did you notice at 3:40, the kickstand is down.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Added stability, and +3 house power

[@stevecoscia]

Great and informative video. You covered the important details in a concise manner.

[@johndove7133]

Love the guy locking at the beginning!! lol

[@michaelanderson9792]

Hi you sold me on the rear hub motor thanks I was looking at mid drive but i am heavy and put enough strain on the drive system as it is

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Well, heavy load puts strain on spokes too. (Just an illustration, it not a rule of thumb or anything) Between 250 and 300 you could ride a hub motor, but you'd want to tighten up the spokes often. If you're 300-400 I'd recommend solid wheels (often called mag wheels, or cast rims), also check the brakes often. If you're North of the 400th parallel, then you might be looking at a custom build. Probably a trike

[@zaex8396]

Mid-drives are more power efficient.

[@peelingpedaler3635]

In 2 years of riding a 1000watt middrive, the Bafang BBSHD, I’ve only snapped a chain once. This is with an 11 speed (skinny) chain. In 2 years of riding a non-ebike. bike, I snapped a chain twice. Also 11 speed. I don’t think the extra torque matters much. But lubing the chain regularly and good shifting habits matter a lot. Carry a chain link with you. The chain can only break in one spot. So just put on the link when it happens. Get one that requires no tools like the Connex link. No need to carry a spare chain or buy a new one until its fully worn.

[@freeflightfilms1]

I've got 2 pedal assist emtbs, a giant dirt e with yamaha mdu drive and a moustache samedi bosch performance mdu, ,both in Spain, here in England Ive got a rear hub 1500w diamond back emtb with a 17ah 48v battery, believe its Samsung and gives me 25 plus miles, rear hub motor which goes very well. I bought second hand and it has much more power for climbing hills etc and when its at 30mph you can't pedal fast enough just throttle , like them all, but theyre different , don't think you can say just mdus are better, theyre certainly slower! But the pedal assists give you more exercise, for sheer performance and to cross a forest quickly and go up hills id pick the rear hub drive one...to go down a mountain quickly the mdu ones as theyre lighter. Theyre both good but I don't like the sudden braking after 17mph on the flat.and the rear hub does effectively double the speed ...

[@Mumbowjumbow]

Based on the factors you mentioned, how does the rambo megatron hashout in your opinion? Dual hub drive (2wd) bikes like the rambo megatron, with bafang 1000w (1500w peak) on each hub

[@jimkonst]

How about a mid-drive connected to an internally geared hub via a belt? Would that solve any problems?

[@rrich52806]

I've got a Lectric XPremium E-Bike mid-drive. Want a hub drive too. Had a Hub drive couple years ago.

[@nahomagnusjohansson5883]

Love the 3rd strike music!

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Hugo and Dudley are my top picks

[@rickyelvis3215]

comprehensive and classy ... good stuff.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Thanks

[@PhillipYewTree]

My mid-drive motor “broke” leaving me stranded miles from home. Give me a front-hub drive for reliability. If the battery fails or the motor dies, you can pedal. If your chain brakes (never happened in 60 years if cycling) you can still motor.

[@paulschmidtke425]

Wasn't a focus impulse drive bike by any chance was it ?

[@suzywong823]

good points!

[@specialized29er86]

Thanks for the great info, before watching the clip I had no idea. Looking to buy a rear hub cruiser, 2 crock knees and replacements in 4 years with pain management.

[@brucehardwick7928]

hi all , i just my first ebike ! omg ,changed my ride

[@tinkerfevermonkey]

At 00:57 into the video. Does anyone know the name or any information about the bike with the really big tires that has the couple riding on it? Thanks

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

That's a custom bike used in the burning man festival some years ago. That's about all I know on it, I found it amusing when Google searching for 'hub motor'.

[@tinkerfevermonkey]

@@BlueMonkeyBicycles Do you have any information on those super wide tires? They looks like they would float really good for a amphibious vehicle project

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

I have no clue, sorry. They certainly don't come from the bike industry. Perhaps heavy machinery, construction?

[@wacka2]

mid drive " look out , you may break your chain " Hub drive .......".meh ....who needs a chain "

[@lesp315]

Sure, and once you are on a steep hill you will burn your hub motor and with all that wight you will push it all the way up. Good thinking. You have no clue.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Wow Les P, you really came out swinging

[@KaneLono]

Seems like an easy choice. Hub for a nice city cruiser. Mid for trails and a must have for climbing.

[@booketoiles1600]

And if your city is nothing but hills ?

[@kadz4171]

I think they forget to mention something about a mid drive with a carbon belt drive! 🤣

[@charliedee9276]

If you ride in any inclement weather at all a hub drive is the only way to go. I have had a Surly Troll converted to ebike for years now in different configurations. Mid is nice, however the chains and sprockets get chewed up in a hurry in the wet slop Michigan weather has to offer. I was going through a motor drive sprocket and chain every 1000 miles. On the other hand I swapped it over to hub drive going on 3 years now with zero issues.

[@Dubsicle]

3:41 is riding with his stand/kickstand down! :P

[@jcrnda]

It's a third wheel!

[@Debbiebabe69]

I think he was using the kickstand to mount the gopro

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Deployed kickstand adds 5 more horse power

[@Debbiebabe69]

@@BlueMonkeyBicycles LOL that reminds me of all the stuff boy racers used to come up with in the 1990s with thier Vauxhall Novas... Painting the engine body colour gets you five extra horses. Alloy wheels over rusty drum brakes gets you five extra horses. A decent sub woofer (ie one that occupies the entire boot) gets you five extra horses. An induction kit over-spec for the engine gets you five extra horses. Getting rid of all your ground clearance gets you five extra horses. Dont waste money on a turbo charger - just install a boost gauge and get just as much extra power. Tinting your windows gets you five extra horses. Using a baked bean can as an exhaust gets you five extra horses.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Fire extinguisher, 5hp Coffee can muffler, 10hp Hooks on the hood, 10hp Fog lights, 5hp

[@freedomofmotion]

What if I want both, and hub motors on the front and rear just for fun as well?

[@mohammedhadi9358]

hub drive motors more efficient cuse no chain in the way of power and that is good. hub motors more powerfull motors.

[@-joo3033]

Hub motors are weaker...

[@JoshStreetDesign]

@@-joo3033 QS 273 V3 3t. Tell me that's weak. You can get 20,000KW out of it.

[@-joo3033]

@@JoshStreetDesign i mean Hub motors are weak for the W used....

[@TheChromeRonin]

@@-joo3033 Theres a limit as to how much torque the hub motor can put into a bike frame, so they feel weaker. Mid drive are driving the whole drive chain, and really just feel like you are adding a whole bunch more leg power into the crank. The wear is that it does stretch the chain faster, and more wear on the cassette. However, I off set this by realising how much Im saving not using the bus, train or car every day to get to work.A good setup should last 1000K or more, a great setup with heavy duty chains will last much longer. But pay attention to loose chains, slipping, etc. Regular maintenance will help.

[@-joo3033]

@@TheChromeRonin as with ANY bicycle

[@ish562]

I think Hub motors win overall because of expense, simplicity and reliability. The only real con for hub motor is the weight, and hill climbing which can be fixed with 2WD. For the price of one Mid drive Motor, I can buy three Hub motors...

[@stoneyswolf]

I made up my mind I'm getting one with both.

[@banpowel9784]

The hub drive tends to be stronger and do last longer, mid drives can be noisy on hikes which is pretty irritating, so for me personally I prefer the sturdier hub drives

[@Sutanreyu]

Like for the 3S vs music.

[@bulletmagegaming9206]

Remy stage?

[@bigsuradventuresinformatio3309]

Love the Smash bros Vs screen throwback.