HUGE Nerfs!? MAJOR Buffs!? BIG Guard Rules & Points Changes Just Dropped!

[@dankvu]

The only shame is Tank Commanders, Ogryns, Bullgryns, and Baneblades don't get the detachment rules.

[@ColonelHoganStalag13]

And tank commanders really lack a purpose. What's the point of radios if you have to maintain a proximity to another vehicle to give it an order?

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

@@ColonelHoganStalag13 I was kinda hoping they'd by tank commanders so that they could give orders up to a theoretical infinite range IF the commander had line of sight to what it was giving orders to (this is a reference to "signal flags", like the in the old days).

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

Forgot aircraft. I was going to run a vulture and That dream is dead now that they don't do lethals anymore.

[@mistamomo]

Lol yes they do

[@iancatt9979]

but you can put ogryns in a chimeria

[@TheDarkangelofshadow]

As a Krieg commander (lots of infantry and artillery) this whole update saw me staring down the barrel of the commissars boltgun for defeatism. I will maybe try to make something work, but I only have two tanks.

[@ColonelHoganStalag13]

I understand exactly what you're going through. I have lots of tanks, mostly because I like tanks. All of my artillery though is now basically going to be shelved. It just doesn't make sense to bring more than a single unit as it has a 50-50 chance of hitting at best. I'd be better off investing in Scions to drop in and finish off hidden units in a direct fire fight than paying a lot more for artillery and hoping for enough hits to pull off the kill. The previous point increases were bad enough, with the lack of increasing chances of hitting and the lack of lethal hits, they're just no longer than useful.

[@robertpawlowski5379]

WWI style Krieg army here too. Spent so much time on dioramas for my artillery and it feels like GW keeps killing fluff. List customization has been killed, no blast templates to visualize the shells, no endless hordes. There's a reason my buddies and I have started HH and are playing more of it.

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

​​@@ColonelHoganStalag13artillery could be fine like this, But they really got to bring those prices down. Like cut FOB down to 100 and we'll see.

[@8ballentertainment.885]

As a Krieg mechanized player (mostly for flavor, its mech guard with kriegers as infantry), I give my sympathy

[@KendoSoldier]

Bro I literally 2 days ago got my 3 Basilisks and just finished kitbashing 6 field artillery and 9 mortars to use Krieg models.... Never even got to play them yet. My army was literally just aartillery and infantry :(

[@kcneedles261]

Smiting infantry and artillery guard in the same patch. Emperor have mercy

[@Savageadv01]

All I saw from this change was that WWI has come to a close. Now we start WWII.

[@DaGoook]

Does this mean we'll be getting at least a tactical nuke down the road?

[@Savageadv01]

@@DaGoookdeathstrike gets a massive buff at the end of this edition

[@SubSonicEctomorph]

Ha well said!

[@AnimaRaptor222]

Here's a potential solution: Ranged Weapons with a Str 8 and Below have Lethal against Non-Vehicles/Monsters. Ranged Weapons with a Str 9 and Above have Lethal against Vehicles/Monsters. The right guns on the right targets.

[@ghost9pm407]

That's what I'm doing for my competitive list. Scions to kill infantry and tanks to kill other tanks. A lot of people don't want to play that way though so MG is correct that it kind of pushes you into one playstyle.

[@Crunch2327]

Dont care, still throwing 250 gas mask boys as krieg, inf and scions into the grinder. I dont do tournaments, I'll play how I want. GW can suc k on a krieg spade.

[@steelxspider5274]

I think our new detachment rule allows us to get lethal hits outside of our turn now, since it states whenever a model makes a ranged attack and there’s no restriction to it being until the end of our turn anymore.

[@colebabcock485]

Correct, it means scions over watching an objective are absolutely insane now. Lethals and sustained with full rerolls will mince most infantry walking on to them. Especially if you bring a command rod with the prime and double order frfsrf for optimally 13 plasma gun shots. Meltas and volley guns are a good looking swap out too if you want to use them that way just to throw as many shots down range (another 18 shots from the volley guns if you take three) but meltas are very punchy so I'll probably run multiple squads. Tried it against custodes earlier today and they wiped an entire unit of custodian guard on overwatch, and then did it to Trajin .-. scions fuck

[@Jo_Der_Punk]

@@colebabcock485 Changes to hazardous mean that you incinerate three scions on a one though, and you have to remove the hazardous weapons first. Overcharging is really dangerous now.

[@colebabcock485]

@@Jo_Der_Punk so from what I can tell from reading the change, the mortals still won't spill over as if they were dev wounds. Thankfully its actually better because you could theoretically save a guy by rolling 3, 6's on the fnp from the command medic. Still basically impossible and I still wouldn't roll it but in a fun beers and chips game I might xD

[@Jo_Der_Punk]

@@colebabcock485 Yeah, I misread the last line. Not as bad as I thought

[@ghost9pm407]

​@@colebabcock485Ah man that's a great observation. I didn't catch that interaction earlier and had an opportunity to use that in a recent game. Wouldn't have changed the outcome or anything, I just had a bunch of CP and it would have been fun to try.

[@johnmossfordmacgregor973]

3 Chimera with 3 Ogryn squads Each Chimera while 10" moving Two Ogryn ripper guns 12 shots Multi laser 4 Laser gun array 12 Heavy bolters 3 Solar orders first rank fire in all three +6 ripper and + 3 Las array Can drop one shot back to get heavy bolters on turret for extra ap and damage So call it about 102 lethal shots Reroll 1's sentinal Fof further -1 AP Ripper Guns and Heavy bolter -1 AP D2 (48 shots) Executioner -1 AP Can fire while in engagement big guns never tire Followed by T9 9 attack tank shock

[@TheDuxbuse]

Reinforcements only targeting battleline was all that was needed tbh

[@lordravenblade]

Also, Tank Commanders and Baneblade variants aren't SQUADRON so they completely lost Born Soldiers.

[@lordravenblade]

Ok you mentioned it later

[@Kingofdragons117]

I feel like the Reinforcement Strategem could be limited to 1 per 1k points. So 2 Uses for a 2k Force would be nice.

[@paulshaw3907]

I think they should do the AOS style. Can use it as much as you want but it only brings back half the unit

[@VetraScavz]

I prayed for new Mordian Glory video, i receive it within seconds. My faith in the Emporer has been renewed!

[@J1ffst3r]

Did tou mention tank shock? I believe we now roll 11 dice for a russ or 9 for a chimera? I know what im spending my left over cp from not having to bank 2 for reinforcement on!

[@DiceandGlory]

Tankshock and grenades is an amazing combo for disembarking infantry

[@andreaszeldahyldvang2296]

I recently got into 40k for the first time, and I was so excited about my 2x FOB, 2 Basilisks and 2 Scout Sentinels build, with 40 cadians and 3 Leman Russ build. Needless to say, these changes make me very sad

[@nraketh]

My favorite thing about reinforcement was that I got to use my painted models again. Takes a lot of effort to paint twenty guardsmen, but they die so fast.

[@akodotain]

I have a suspicion that you can run infantry and artillery guard using the gsc codex... Since we can't get better than 4+ hit, we don't care about losing orders. Since we get reinforcements 1 per battle, use gsc battleline as the meat for the grinder.

[@justinmsc5]

Exactly right! Guard needs its detachments... But it's not looking good for them with these changes to Reinforcements and Indirect Fire. Guard detachments look like they're going to end up like Space Marines, with mainly only the TANKSTANKSTANKS one being good.

[@grunhold]

It seems like GW hinted at this with the Guard Battleforce this Christmas being 2 Dorns?

[@crsmith6226]

Don’t forget that just because artillery indirect fire has been heavily nerfed you can still use them as direct fire and get that hitting on 2+ rerolling ones with the sentinel with direct fire

[@AceofSpadesPlayer]

Wasnt it Rerolls on 1s with darin recon?

[@crsmith6226]

@@AceofSpadesPlayer that’s why the sentinel walks with the artillery up the field. The basilisk then looks at the group of marines and shoots flechette rounds at them.

[@vxicepickxv]

​@AceofSpadesPlayer yes, and that's independent from the Indirect Fire part.

[@CinderellasStinkyFoot]

Direct fire arty will draw attention away from infantry and dorns driving up the enemys throat

[@Sha_Bingus]

In that case why bother and just get a better direct fire platform with a LR for equivalent points. Another stupid nerf from GW

[@Thural448]

if you want to max out born soldiers chimeras [Squadron] with heavy weapons [Regiment] teams could now be a good option... facing a tank -> but your 3 heavy bolter / missile launcher in the cimera facing infantry -> get them out of the chimera

[@nickrivas6429]

Im glad i didn't get a basilisk yet. Im close to done painting my troops and was looking at which vehicles to get first and leaning towards artillery. Guess its either lemon or door time.

[@jameskurth3560]

Great and all, but I just came back to the game after loosing my corsair army in 8th edition. I decided to make my first army that I wanted. So I just spent around 700$ on building infantry guard. Infantry, lord solar, heavy weapons teams, field ordinance heavy lascannons, etc. Nice to know that before I'm even done painting my army got nerfed in favor of building yet more tanks. This feels bad.

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

I got into guard because tanks were cool, especially the Baneblade and its variants. I wish the Baneblade benefited from these rule changes.

[@sircrim8694]

That's so dumb, my god

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

And that's great I want people to have their chance to play. I got into guard because artillery is cool and I was just finishing my list to actually play it when this happened.😢

[@jcrosato]

I think it would make more sense if specific tanks or units had a keyword that put them in either anti infrantry born soldiers or anti-tank born soldiers. Doesn't make sense to have Chimeras lethal vs tanks, or punishers/eradicators vs tanks. And the ommission of Tank Commander and baneblades.

[@arikrause3043]

Makes sense that we can't ignore the indirect fire penalty thanks to Daring Recon....but is it still fair to reroll 1s for indirect fire weapons? Or a roll of 1-3 an auto fail that can't be rerolled?

[@ghost9pm407]

The general consensus I've seen is that re-rolls are fine. So the manticore and scout sentinel re-rolls still work.

[@alukemckool]

Not much of a guard player but as a follower of the star gods I need to adapt can you do a video on brood brother choices in the GSC detachment what sort of units synergies with the cult. So many tanks and units need clarification

[@hobbybro3902]

Still have been putting my Guard army together so haven’t played a game with them. However by watching Mordians videos My collection has been geared toward sort of all comers, and Mech Guard. Overall I’m optimistic of the changes. I think they need to clarify if daring recon can affect artillery despite the 1-3 is always a miss. Until that I’ll play it as it doesn’t. Well good luck to all.

[@hpenvy1106]

It's remarkable that the "new" kits, wich came out end of ninth all where buffed/cheapend. Rogal, Kasrk and Field Arty. I love the changed detachmentrule, I want to be running, not standing around

[@damnationdan5253]

Honestly just glad to have a detachment rule that works, never relied on artillery or Reinforcements anyway

[@spartanbattlestudios]

I was using reinforcements 2-3 times per game 😢

[@AnonD38]

To be honest, the best Guard Artillery is still a variant of the Baneblade or Shadowsword.

[@damnationdan5253]

@@spartanbattlestudios genuinely thought it was limited to one use per battle cause its so good

[@sircrim8694]

@@spartanbattlestudios more like 4 to 5 times for me XD

[@parko246]

Literally just a game against tau with reinforcements. The only thing that got me through lol. Not sure how the hell I can win now. Especially with Tau buffs

[@nateforsberg2990]

I’ve been having a lot of success and really enjoying running 2 or more full krieg blobs with a marshal and primaris psyker. It’s 250 points in total so if you need it cheaper remove the marshal. I was amazed at how the psyker greatly increases the durability of the unit on her own against shooting and she does a lot of damage with her psychic attack. I’ve had some games where I’ve only reinforced once or twice so thicker units like that might be the new game plan.

[@striderfox71]

Planning on a kited out 60 dkok 30 rough riders and a damn baneblade for my army of feudal guardsmen

[@callumjohnston858]

I got into guard for the Tallarn. Luckily, this doesn't affect me too much, since I'm not too artillery driven. But it does shake up how I've been playing in a big way.

[@crazyyelir4127]

Reinforcements also affects the new Kroot Detachment.

[@santiagorodriguez5338]

I got into guard because I was in the army as an artillerymen (RedLegs!). Still looking to play them in a mech infantry format

[@MaximusSektor40K]

I see another possible nerf on the Tank Commnaders - Rules Commentary page 17, top left - looks like a counter to usung "Death befiting an officer" after death in close combat. This is huge blow against agressive use of those units.

[@Fred-bw3no]

I feel like this detachment ignores a lot of units because they’re accounting for incoming codex detachments. Which would be great, if we had those

[@johnmossfordmacgregor973]

Callidus and aquila enhancement can zone a lot of the board with the +1 CP TO stratagems

[@texassasquatch5734]

I think as a role play or flavor thing you can think of the vehicle mounted weapons have a larger power source....With Firing from a firing platform maybe the Infantry weapons are "Plugged In"...Love your videos

[@gabrielherron8023]

So, wild proposition: Direct Fire Praetor. Heresy I know, but hear me out. T11,18W, +2sv. Has squadron keyword, foehammer launcher is anti monster/vehicle 4+. Still expensive as hell, but it could work

[@notsabbat]

Funny thing is that I've been spending the last month or so building a Sentinel/Chimera span list cause I think those units are really cool. Now they both got buffed 😂

[@RJALEXANDER777]

They could've just done born soldiers via weapon strength. less than eight gets lethals against non-vehicles/monsters, eight and up gets lethals against them. Generally speaking you don't want to be targeting chaff and infantry with a high strength weapon. And if you are you don't need a damage buff anyway. The only odd interaction I can think of would be plasma guns, those would become anti-armour/monster when supercharged. Similar situation with other multi-profile weapons.

[@olivermatthews8110]

Probably a coincidence, but I recall that the dorn being above 250 meant that GSC couldn't do some of their nonsense with it in brood brothers; which has also just been rewritten...

[@vanja12398]

Am i triping or sentinels geting lethal hits no mater the target? I mean they are both regiment AND squadron

[@Hello-bp8dx]

Yep

[@Bobamelius]

Shame they don't have enough volume of fire for that to matter at all

[@BentJacket]

I think the reinforcement type strats should start at 1 CP and go up 1 CP in cost, each time they are used.

[@kodster234]

I don't think i fully understand the artillery nerf- the rule states unmodified hit roles of 1-3 always fail, but doesn't key words like heavy modify the hit? I don't think take aim works anymore because you're not modifying the role but couldn't you still get it down to hitting on 3+?

[@HenryEaton]

Woof do i feel bad for running a artillery list relying on reinforcing battleline units to drown the objectives in bodies. It feels like our worst rule has been improved and our best rule has been nerfed in to oblivion. Fully appreciate the indirect nerf. Bassys hitting on 2s was a bit stupid

[@AnonD38]

If only GW had given us a rule change that had allowed us to blast our own Infantry in exchange for the Artillery nerf...

[@Bakon65]

Bassis being able to hit on 2+ is great when Melee Factions on the board

[@slyoldowl]

In reality we blow up grid squares for a living so not far off

[@Spymaster001]

I think they still can with the scout sentinel

[@HenryEaton]

@@Spymaster001 you're huffing copium, friend. Daring recon removes the -1 to hit penalty of indirect and lets you reroll 1s. It doesn't remove the 2s and 3s always miss.

[@Thural448]

If I get it right the lethal hits from detachment rule now even affects overwatch!

[@Amdor]

Double-strat is gone and Admech didn't even notice.

[@andrewlane8267]

So would 10 krieg with a platoon command squad and Marshall 16 models be better than 20 model krieg unit?

[@MrSenger285]

Played in a tourney today, with the new points. 2 dorns, 2 vanquishers, it’s a sweet spot.

[@zsoltlang2144]

I am painting my 1st combat patroll currebtly, and I am happy to see that I will be able to roll with 3 units of bombast field gun

[@o00warlock00o]

I thought you would touch on the Tank Shock changes. Big W for the Guard

[@CadianRefugee]

Really great summary. Thank you for doing this.

[@MaxderFranke]

18:12 the patrol "send in the next wave" is a good balance. gw can fix this in normal 40k.

[@andrewlane8267]

So would 10 krieg with a platoon command squad and Marshall 16 models be better than 20 model krieg unit? X3?

[@lordravenblade]

Haven't sold enough Dorns yet.

[@bluntpencil2001]

If it were up to me, I'd have the lethal hits decided by the Strength of the attack. If it's 8 or under, lethal hits vs non vehicles and monsters. If it's 8 or higher, lethal hits vs vehicles and monsters. Melta and overheated plasma get both, because S8. That being said, it's not awful. My Leman Russ Company (ten tanks!) can now either take three squads of Catachans in Chimeras, or one squad of Catachans in a Chimera along with 3 Hydras. What I've been doing for years is now very effective!

[@Kingofdragons117]

Meltas are S9 though.

[@Talonz501]

yup, heavy lascannon FOB getting lethals vs infantry is @#$%ing stupid.

[@bluntpencil2001]

@@Kingofdragons117 Good catch. No big deal. Only plasma on overheat gets both then.

[@ferggerman]

I have a thematic Krieg army with 3 Earthshaker Carriage batteries and a load of infantry and im like *Peter Griffen death pose*

[@ferggerman]

*this update sucks for me

[@haydenleffler8616]

@@ferggermansame brother, I played exactly how you did.

[@ferggerman]

@@haydenleffler8616 kindred spirit

[@ghost9pm407]

Earthshaker Batteries actually aren't too bad because they would usually hit on 4's anyway. Losing Lethals sucks but I could see still running 2 for some chip damage and the slow effect. Maybe you could swap one out for a Field Ordnance Battery if you want to keep it somewhat competitive while still retaining your theme.

[@SpartaMacIntyre]

I agree that the new Born Soldiers is, overall, a buff - it's both more useful (unless you were very artillery heavy) and more fun (still getting it with units being mobile). My main issue is with units that do the 'wrong thing' - Mordian notes infantry units with anti-armour and monster weapons, but it's just as bad for dedicated infantry-hunting vehicles like the LR Punisher and...oh dear, the unfortunate little Wyvern. Didn't even get a points decrease, the poor lamb :( I hope that, with Indirect Fire only being allowed to hit on 4s, they'll alter the Scout Sentinel and Expert Bombardiers 'spotting' abilities: maybe they could make the weapon Ignore Cover? Or Sustained Hits if, like the Wyvern, it already Ignores Cover? Re-roll misses? I understand concerns about artillery being too powerful on its own, but I think it's completely fair for it to go from merely OK to really bloody deadly *if it's being assisted by another unit or a Strat*.

[@edrakerz1567]

I love playing the guard because of the fluff. I am missing one unit though that would be super nice to have. A dedicated stealthy scout unit. Let me field a 10 man unit of Tanith that has infiltrator. Yes I know that Gaunt's Ghosts has a Character unit, but I would love to have an "other" unit.

[@Deadjim17]

So do repulsors and Impulsors have pivot values of 0? Same for Eldar Grav tanks and tau hammerheads. All of the above being on round bases

[@Jo_Der_Punk]

At the moment yes. But I suspect they will rectify this once enough people complain at the tournaments

[@ThorOdinson]

I read the title really fast and thought it said “OLD GUARD” and not “DID GUARD” and immediately thought “THE OLD GUARD IS BROKEN!”

[@daethwing188]

As a trench warfare krieg fan, wanting to see a list of all infantry backed by earthshaker battries and no hard armor in sight, I'm quite sad now.

[@oinked]

Im not entirely convinced on the new detachment rule at all. Not only because a huge number of our units are neither regiment nor squadron but also because the detachment rule seems apparently counter to the actual role of lots of units... Chimeras you already touched on, but also Leman russ punishers are anti infantry, but get lethals against tanks!?

[@Jo_Der_Punk]

Well they get devastating vs. Infantry, so you really don't want lethals on it.

[@oinked]

And actually thinking about it this change might just make the punisher a useful take... Good for clearing infantry but also can turn it's attention to heavier targets to fish fo lethals...

[@JellothePallascat]

I started as a mech guard player. So I am happy to have a more viable play list for that. But I was also building an Arty list cause I love me my WW1 history! So it’s a mixed bag for me

[@JonmarkPlummer]

Mordian our tank shock also got a major buff.

[@Mad_mountain05]

Good man @mordianglory we appreciate you sir!

[@horonin]

I got into guard because I wanted to make a Vietnam style army, and that's what I used to run. Artillery in the back, and then dropping off AirCav with Valkyries and lots of troops. I definitely choose a theme to build my list around though, and try to make that theme as good as I can, rather than trying to build for pure strength.

[@y2j1490yahoo]

Dumb

[@ElChismo]

This is purely hypothetical and probably wrong but… what if the nerfs are with codex in mind? We get a Valhallan/ infantry detachment that does allow multiple uses of reinforcements? A kreig themed infantry one that allows artillery to hit on 3-6 instead 4-6? A catachan one that gives infantry lethal hits against monsters? It would be cool but like I say, probably too much flavour/theory craft

[@0ohmit0]

the Nid Codex's"unending" swarm didn't get a change like that and I'm not exactly sure GW would give the guard more chaff than the nids

[@matthewspencer1077]

That would make WAY too much sense for GW to ever do it.

[@jeffwatson7345]

not going to happen mate. they changed the strat across the board. it's going to stay that way unless they redo it for everyone.

[@kevinbarrio]

After 10 years wanting to play 40k, 1 year seeing your vids, I'm finally about to finish painting my first Combat Patrol to play my first games... And I'm was loving it. Until I've saw this vid... So now, technically, they have nerfed ALL the things they could? They nerfed the troops, the tanks (that pivot thing I don't know how can be good for us...) and the artillery. Oh, and the Stratgems and fun/intesting things. Even the Born Soldiers. Well, this "Let's play 40k once and for all!" dream was reeeeeeeaaaally short lived. :(

[@johnmossfordmacgregor973]

Don't give up yet Always struggled to get infantry objectives effective and lethal Now I can. Army is now mobile and lethal not stationary lethal which is much better tactical to win games Give ita go

[@kevinbarrio]

@@johnmossfordmacgregor973 Well, I was gonna build something like Armoured Fists but with a lot of heavy weapons shooting from chimeras. My idea was to be stationary, defensive, and blast all I can from my def position. Now I have to play aggresive, which I hate (I played Khorne a lot on Fantasy and I didn't like it at all.

[@LynKrieger]

Still give it a go we are fun to play

[@drizzziit1]

You are being overly dramatic these are good changes especially you only have a combat patrol you barely started your collection.

[@ksamuel9]

Dramatic

[@colonelsanders82]

FWIW, only using reinforcements once per battle does free up our CP to be used in other ways. So while Creed is not the CP bargain she used to be, we will have more CP to work with. Also, Devil Dogs with Lethal Hits vs. Vehicles sounds interesting. Not Meta or anything like that, but interesting.

[@Madlarkin00]

The lethal hits needing to see the target isn't the problem... its having ask my opponent is that a monster keyword?? Just asking all the time to see if I'm getting lethals

[@sphotoburpee]

cult ambush for GSC did not get nerfed so they can still send in unending waves of troops. I feel like GW does not like the guard.

[@vxicepickxv]

They did a good enough job nerfing GSC by handing them a codex.

[@nathanswetye210]

@@vxicepickxv Just remember those words, as we have yet to receive ours....

[@TheStreetad]

Cult Ambush is dealable with if you are good at board control (or a SM player with a bunch of Infiltrators)

[@KnockoutKingable]

Can mortars still get lethal hits against infantry ?

[@marknus89]

Only if they can see the unit they are shooting at

[@Mark_Batcheler]

With Creed no longer getting free FoF Can we use it for 1 CP on a 20 man infantry squad with mortars, then use box casters to claw back the point?

[@karlnygren]

Yes, that's what I intend to do(but on a 10 man infantry squad with mortar).

[@Tomppeh]

Only if you don't run lord solar for example, as you can only get 2 CP per round including the base one, so Leontus himself does that already

[@karlnygren]

@@Tomppeh good point, I thought he meant without Solar, that's what I'm going to try today. Against World eaters, I will miss my good hitting artillery on these terrain dense boards.

[@karlnygren]

And with Fields of fire costing 1 CP I really missed having the Solar extra. Couldn't bring back the unit I wanted.. Solar is going back into the list. Still won and the now mobile basilisk got to shoot direct two times! (Ok, against a melee army so it wasn't in any danger really)

[@Roblecop]

Heavy is a modification to the hit roll, so doesn't that mean we can still hit on 3's with the Basilisk and Manticore? Assuming Daring Recon can still negate the -1 to hit.

[@craigkenny37]

If the dice you roll shows a 1, 2, or 3 then it misses. Removing those unmodified dice happens before you modify the rest of the dice.

[@Chloe34876]

Time to go back and review the Leman Russ loadouts. Plasma Death Ball is back baybee!!!

[@matrdrake87]

Just a thought but does the new born soldiers rule make loading up a doom hammer with mortar squads more viable?

[@matrdrake87]

Opened my mouth too soon cancel this comment 🫠

[@Kytharion]

My WW1 style guard are dead... Can't get the detachment bonuses when I shoot vehicles, cant bring in more than 1 wave of reinforcements. Artillery nerfed hard... I got into guard cuz I had this vision of a fluffy army in my head that could still be decent on the table top... Epic sad.

[@Bradtheartguy]

Honestly the Ursula Creed nerf isn't so bad considering we're going to have all of the CP that we used to use on reinforcements.

[@ghost9pm407]

Thats pretty much what I found in a test game. I would get a CP back here and there from the voxcasters as well so that helped also.

[@ChainsawDunDeez]

Yeah...Im not a guard player ( I do dream about making a penal legion army)... but I’m always “rooting” for them.. I think the reforcement strat should be once every turn but maybe on a roll of 4+ or something like that...to balance it out

[@roderickhamilton9891]

They did the same nerf to reinforcements in 6th edition - Send in the Next Wave was a really flavourful ability, then they said it couldn't be used in matched play. This is a pretty major fuck you to infantry guard and given how beloved that formation type is to those who've been collecting for years and years it just stinks.

[@beanman853]

Its a very big win for guard rules wanting you to play warhammer especially as competative guard lists were not fun for your opponent because your damage units were uninteractable. It seems like lists need to be fully redesigned.

[@Storm3y-David]

I think reinforcements should allow a destroyed character at this point to return to a unit that was destroyed or bring back a character to that unit if it’s once per battle

[@htidDeano]

I feel like the fact new missions are gonna be around battle line so I was thinking of taking punishers for this but the leathal isn't great I suppose 20 shots into a vehicle is ok but seems more of an umbrella type buff feels needs a tweek

[@rileysmith7763]

I still think the LR Punisher is meh. That being said, if it got lethal hits against infantry, then it would miss out on its Dev wounds ability.

[@bluntpencil2001]

It'll buff the Multi Meltas or Plasma Cannons that it also has, though!

[@Kingofdragons117]

Consider an Eradicator with 3 Heavy Flamers.

[@htidDeano]

I'm not saying it's bad buff just feel the target for anti infantry tanks isn't vehicles and I feel there gonna be alot of battle line coming soon still really nice to lethals thoe think armoured sentinel have some good play now..... Good excuse to go and get some kromlech sentinels they look awesome

[@sircrim8694]

I still think that the worst is losing reinfrcement more than once, until we get other detachment rules, that's suck for the entirety of the faction. Though I do believe that arty is kinda dead other than 3 cheap Mortars HWT which is still a must have in most list

[@honey_badger1450]

I personally like being pigeon-holed into a specific playstyle and having thematic lists and even whole detachments *cough nids unending swarm *cough being made to be unplayable . I also admire that instead of designing that mission pack around the current rules sets, they do whatever the f*ck they want and re-write the ruleset to fit their mission pack. Probably a result of the overwhelming community consensus that we hate fun.

[@chikumori5530]

GW hate guard. Unless you're mechanized guard. Then you're merely acceptable as long as you aren't winning.

[@Clutterlicious]

All the battle line infantry squads still break the cull rule. A ten man squad, with a command squad, attaches, ogryn body and a tech priest with servirtors, is 24 bodies that cant be culled.

[@ronaldhackett9590]

You don't count leaders as part of the squad for Cull....

[@samholmes5552]

So I just picked the perfect time to grab 2 baneblades

[@Paparoachdude581]

The artillery nerfs are a huge hit, just got into 40K this year. Built an army around a full mechanization theme, needless to say this is hugely disheartening considering my basilisks are now nerfed into obscurity.

[@AceofSpadesPlayer]

But wait, Theres more! As the lethal hits via Attachments are now Changed. What about the rapier laser Destroyer battery?! Wouldnt it become now more usefull? Due to its uniqe ability to get OVERALL lethal hits when given orders? It fires 2 laser Destroyer shots per model, is twinlinked, strgh 12!, but ap -2 and it cost almost twice than a HWT. It is infantry, so you can stuck it inside a ruin and maybe get hailing fire and slap it fof to get it Ap -4.

[@kazaij]

thinking about a castelan warlord with drill commander in a big squad ... what about 3 castelans and three big squads?.. might test that in a game. Sounds like a viable T3 shredder. Lethal Hits + Sustained hits on a 5+ in rapid fire range 🤔

[@vxicepickxv]

You have FRFSRF as an option for more shots as well.

[@kazaij]

​@@vxicepickxv162 Lasgun shots plus Lethal Hits and sustained Hits 😮... worthy a try

[@ghost9pm407]

Unfortunately you'd have to sit still and wait for someone to walk into rapid fire range because Drill Commander requires you to be stationary.

[@kazaij]

@@ghost9pm407 you're are right.. just checked the rule.😥 Keeps my potential warlord out of range. Still... 2-3 Squads with this setup sounds worthy a try.

[@ghost9pm407]

@@kazaij But you're absolutely right about Sust1+Lethals being amazing. I tried it out with a Scion blob and it smacked. You tend to get 4-5 more plasma shots through to the armor save along with 1 more melta and 7 or 8 hot-shots. That last one is important because usually at close range after dropping in they aren't getting cover so it's a true -1 to save. They are much more reliable now than they were before. The same concept would apply to a big Cadian squad in your example.

[@LokiLaughs2]

Easy fix. All weapons S5 or less get the regiment bonus S6+ squadron. That or maybe S7+, but the concept is simple.

[@Thaif010]

The change to Born Soldiers detachment rule is great; it's fluffy _and_ more crunchy due to the volume of fire the Guard can bring to the table, even if it's a bit jank like Mordian explained. Reinforcement giganerf stings something fierce and the Indirect fire nerf is nasty, if somewhat understandable. Shame that flyers are basically designed out of the game, as they could counter indirect fire platforms in armies that don't have counter battery. The movement rules of flyers need a few tweaks to make them less ass to use.

[@malocuillandre1344]

What was fluffy was to have officers giving orders, sentinels/infantry with vox casters sporting targets and your artillery firmly fixed and entrenched in the ground to hammer down the enemy. Now it's: don't give orders to your artillerymen, don't bother conducting recon mission, move your bombard everywhere so they have a direct line of sight and fire And I forgot, the lasgun of your heavy weapon team does not have lethal hits on tanks but on infantry, and the Gatling on your tanks doesn't have lethal hits on the infantry but on tanks.

[@Thaif010]

@@malocuillandre1344 I believe the Punisher Leman Russ has both due to it's own ability combined with Born Soldiers. Personally the Reinforcements strat being once per game is the worst one by far. I think Mordians counter proposal was far more reasonable.

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

My list came down by like 20 points. So sure Mordian Those three extra guardsmen of points will make up for not being able to cycle my rough riders, losing a chance to hit on my artillery, and paying an extra command point a round for Creed's FOF. This is a massive nerf for any artillery forward guard lists. I literally just got my list together😢 The fact of the matter is that if they're going to make game-wide changes like this they need to go in and change everything that it's affected by to the second and third order. They should have included sweeping changes to data sheets, abilities, stratagems, and enhancements that don't make any sense anymore with these changes. Since they didn't it just feels half-ass, because it is. Just saying right now that our units need to be tankier if we're not going to have reinforcements to rely on. Not just cheaper stronger. Like you said if we can only use it once then our infantry When you max out on them like you did needs to be able to make it the five battle rounds against the enemy shooting, and rough riders need to be able to take a punch without folding. There's lots of evidence in this data slate that they are not following their own rules and waiting for enough data before making big nerfs. CSM in particular, They literally we're still using partially index data on stat check podcast it's been out for so little time before getting slapped with nerfs with NO BUFFS ON THE STUFF THAT IS TRASH. You aren't just looking at this through the lens of the guard, Guard is my newest army but The same thing is happening with orks and CSM. I don't even want to spam artillery, I'm a mixed arms player I want to have 25% of my points in artillery, 25% in vehicles, and 50% in infantry and officers. I also disagree with your logic to always play a rule against yourself. That's not fair to yourself. You say that otherwise you can chance some feels bad but basically you're saying default gives yourself feels bads. I don't agree with that. From looking at the rule I don't see how the hits on one to three is always fail is not a penalty? It's written right in there in the line with the other penalties that we ignore like the -1 to hit and cover. So yeah I don't know how people are reading this like OverWatch it's clear as day to me that it's a penalty. Sure they're going to FAQ it but they wrote it as a penalty, GW sure doesn't go in and and make sure that problems that negatively impact us that They didn't think about get fixed quickly, When it goes in our favor enjoy it Don't just punish yourself to be safe.

[@iljastutz4181]

Want muh astra codex We need it more than lethal hits

[@markwhittenberg1694]

Depends on which writing team has our codex.

[@Demane69]

@@markwhittenberg1694 And if Amazon's vision affects Guard. It's not exactly an army that attracts whatever new audience they seem to corrupt things for.

[@ColonelHoganStalag13]

@@Demane69 Oh I'm sure we'll get another female character to replace a man they killed off. Nothing like have Lord Castellan Creed killed off so he could be replaced with a lunch lady who is his daughter to mock manliness. But I don't play Cadians and their co-ed approach to war.

[@arnekrug939]

​@@Demane69 GW killing Forge World units is much more worrying.

[@chikumori5530]

@@Demane69 Go cope and seethe with the other incels on the Horus sub.

[@Burger013]

I think this is overall a net positive with a couple things that're annoying, I think the fatigue of an Index edition is getting to everyone and is especially hurting new players. My Ulthwe army hasn't matched the fantasy they're supposed to have and I think many people are feeling this with their own armies.

[@johnmossfordmacgregor973]

Kurov's Aquila Assign to officer hiddin deep inside a platoon ‘Lord of Deceit (Aura): Each time your opponent targets a unit from their army with a Stratagem, if that unit is within 12" of this model, increase the cost of that use of that Stratagem by 1CP.’ That's every time with any stratagem unlimited within 12" Grenades Command rerolls Tank shock insane bravery Heroic intervention Etc Etc 🤣 Lots of armies get an equivalent Guard can get two with callidus assassin as well

[@vm3405]

Tank Commander

[@johnmossfordmacgregor973]

​@@vm3405hell's teeth that is hilarious 😅

[@johnmossfordmacgregor973]

Stand a callidus next to an officer with Aquila and all opponent stratagems within 12" of them cost +2CP 🤣 (This is such hairy cheese Jank I cannot see it lasting without a rules update for more than a week surely? 😄)

[@Sgt-lott10]

This has only made me consider taking more artillery to spite gw, my next list will have double basilisk but the one after that will likely bring in my entire collection of artillery

[@lightning1403]

Tank shock has greatly improved for our actual Tanks, instead of heavily favoring Titans and other melee specialized vehicles.