HUGE Nerfs!? MAJOR Buffs!? BIG Guard Rules & Points Changes Just Dropped!

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[@dankvu]

The only shame is Tank Commanders, Ogryns, Bullgryns, and Baneblades don't get the detachment rules.

[@ColonelHoganStalag13]

And tank commanders really lack a purpose. What's the point of radios if you have to maintain a proximity to another vehicle to give it an order?

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

@@ColonelHoganStalag13 I was kinda hoping they'd by tank commanders so that they could give orders up to a theoretical infinite range IF the commander had line of sight to what it was giving orders to (this is a reference to "signal flags", like the in the old days).

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

Forgot aircraft. I was going to run a vulture and That dream is dead now that they don't do lethals anymore.

[@mistamomo]

Lol yes they do

[@iancatt9979]

but you can put ogryns in a chimeria

[@TheDarkangelofshadow]

As a Krieg commander (lots of infantry and artillery) this whole update saw me staring down the barrel of the commissars boltgun for defeatism. I will maybe try to make something work, but I only have two tanks.

[@ColonelHoganStalag13]

I understand exactly what you're going through. I have lots of tanks, mostly because I like tanks. All of my artillery though is now basically going to be shelved. It just doesn't make sense to bring more than a single unit as it has a 50-50 chance of hitting at best. I'd be better off investing in Scions to drop in and finish off hidden units in a direct fire fight than paying a lot more for artillery and hoping for enough hits to pull off the kill. The previous point increases were bad enough, with the lack of increasing chances of hitting and the lack of lethal hits, they're just no longer than useful.

[@robertpawlowski5379]

WWI style Krieg army here too. Spent so much time on dioramas for my artillery and it feels like GW keeps killing fluff. List customization has been killed, no blast templates to visualize the shells, no endless hordes. There's a reason my buddies and I have started HH and are playing more of it.

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

​​@@ColonelHoganStalag13artillery could be fine like this, But they really got to bring those prices down. Like cut FOB down to 100 and we'll see.

[@8ballentertainment.885]

As a Krieg mechanized player (mostly for flavor, its mech guard with kriegers as infantry), I give my sympathy

[@KendoSoldier]

Bro I literally 2 days ago got my 3 Basilisks and just finished kitbashing 6 field artillery and 9 mortars to use Krieg models.... Never even got to play them yet. My army was literally just aartillery and infantry :(

[@kcneedles261]

Smiting infantry and artillery guard in the same patch. Emperor have mercy

[@Savageadv01]

All I saw from this change was that WWI has come to a close. Now we start WWII.

[@DaGoook]

Does this mean we'll be getting at least a tactical nuke down the road?

[@Savageadv01]

@@DaGoookdeathstrike gets a massive buff at the end of this edition

[@SubSonicEctomorph]

Ha well said!

[@AnimaRaptor222]

Here's a potential solution: Ranged Weapons with a Str 8 and Below have Lethal against Non-Vehicles/Monsters. Ranged Weapons with a Str 9 and Above have Lethal against Vehicles/Monsters. The right guns on the right targets.

[@ghost9pm407]

That's what I'm doing for my competitive list. Scions to kill infantry and tanks to kill other tanks. A lot of people don't want to play that way though so MG is correct that it kind of pushes you into one playstyle.

[@TheDuxbuse]

Reinforcements only targeting battleline was all that was needed tbh

[@lordravenblade]

Also, Tank Commanders and Baneblade variants aren't SQUADRON so they completely lost Born Soldiers.

[@lordravenblade]

Ok you mentioned it later

[@johnmossfordmacgregor973]

3 Chimera with 3 Ogryn squads Each Chimera while 10" moving Two Ogryn ripper guns 12 shots Multi laser 4 Laser gun array 12 Heavy bolters 3 Solar orders first rank fire in all three +6 ripper and + 3 Las array Can drop one shot back to get heavy bolters on turret for extra ap and damage So call it about 102 lethal shots Reroll 1's sentinal Fof further -1 AP Ripper Guns and Heavy bolter -1 AP D2 (48 shots) Executioner -1 AP Can fire while in engagement big guns never tire Followed by T9 9 attack tank shock

[@steelxspider5274]

I think our new detachment rule allows us to get lethal hits outside of our turn now, since it states whenever a model makes a ranged attack and there’s no restriction to it being until the end of our turn anymore.

[@colebabcock485]

Correct, it means scions over watching an objective are absolutely insane now. Lethals and sustained with full rerolls will mince most infantry walking on to them. Especially if you bring a command rod with the prime and double order frfsrf for optimally 13 plasma gun shots. Meltas and volley guns are a good looking swap out too if you want to use them that way just to throw as many shots down range (another 18 shots from the volley guns if you take three) but meltas are very punchy so I'll probably run multiple squads. Tried it against custodes earlier today and they wiped an entire unit of custodian guard on overwatch, and then did it to Trajin .-. scions fuck

[@Jo_Der_Punk]

@@colebabcock485 Changes to hazardous mean that you incinerate three scions on a one though, and you have to remove the hazardous weapons first. Overcharging is really dangerous now.

[@colebabcock485]

@@Jo_Der_Punk so from what I can tell from reading the change, the mortals still won't spill over as if they were dev wounds. Thankfully its actually better because you could theoretically save a guy by rolling 3, 6's on the fnp from the command medic. Still basically impossible and I still wouldn't roll it but in a fun beers and chips game I might xD

[@Jo_Der_Punk]

@@colebabcock485 Yeah, I misread the last line. Not as bad as I thought

[@ghost9pm407]

​@@colebabcock485Ah man that's a great observation. I didn't catch that interaction earlier and had an opportunity to use that in a recent game. Wouldn't have changed the outcome or anything, I just had a bunch of CP and it would have been fun to try.

[@Kingofdragons117]

I feel like the Reinforcement Strategem could be limited to 1 per 1k points. So 2 Uses for a 2k Force would be nice.

[@paulshaw3907]

I think they should do the AOS style. Can use it as much as you want but it only brings back half the unit

[@VetraScavz]

I prayed for new Mordian Glory video, i receive it within seconds. My faith in the Emporer has been renewed!

[@nraketh]

My favorite thing about reinforcement was that I got to use my painted models again. Takes a lot of effort to paint twenty guardsmen, but they die so fast.

[@akodotain]

I have a suspicion that you can run infantry and artillery guard using the gsc codex... Since we can't get better than 4+ hit, we don't care about losing orders. Since we get reinforcements 1 per battle, use gsc battleline as the meat for the grinder.

[@andreaszeldahyldvang2296]

I recently got into 40k for the first time, and I was so excited about my 2x FOB, 2 Basilisks and 2 Scout Sentinels build, with 40 cadians and 3 Leman Russ build. Needless to say, these changes make me very sad

[@justinmsc5]

Exactly right! Guard needs its detachments... But it's not looking good for them with these changes to Reinforcements and Indirect Fire. Guard detachments look like they're going to end up like Space Marines, with mainly only the TANKSTANKSTANKS one being good.

[@J1ffst3r]

Did tou mention tank shock? I believe we now roll 11 dice for a russ or 9 for a chimera? I know what im spending my left over cp from not having to bank 2 for reinforcement on!

[@DiceandGlory]

Tankshock and grenades is an amazing combo for disembarking infantry

[@jameskurth3560]

Great and all, but I just came back to the game after loosing my corsair army in 8th edition. I decided to make my first army that I wanted. So I just spent around 700$ on building infantry guard. Infantry, lord solar, heavy weapons teams, field ordinance heavy lascannons, etc. Nice to know that before I'm even done painting my army got nerfed in favor of building yet more tanks. This feels bad.

[@sphotoburpee]

cult ambush for GSC did not get nerfed so they can still send in unending waves of troops. I feel like GW does not like the guard.

[@vxicepickxv]

They did a good enough job nerfing GSC by handing them a codex.

[@nathanswetye210]

@@vxicepickxv Just remember those words, as we have yet to receive ours....

[@TheStreetad]

Cult Ambush is dealable with if you are good at board control (or a SM player with a bunch of Infiltrators)

[@nickrivas6429]

Im glad i didn't get a basilisk yet. Im close to done painting my troops and was looking at which vehicles to get first and leaning towards artillery. Guess its either lemon or door time.

[@johnmossfordmacgregor973]

Kurov's Aquila Assign to officer hiddin deep inside a platoon ‘Lord of Deceit (Aura): Each time your opponent targets a unit from their army with a Stratagem, if that unit is within 12" of this model, increase the cost of that use of that Stratagem by 1CP.’ That's every time with any stratagem unlimited within 12" Grenades Command rerolls Tank shock insane bravery Heroic intervention Etc Etc 🤣 Lots of armies get an equivalent Guard can get two with callidus assassin as well

[@vm3405]

Tank Commander

[@johnmossfordmacgregor973]

​@@vm3405hell's teeth that is hilarious 😅

[@johnmossfordmacgregor973]

Stand a callidus next to an officer with Aquila and all opponent stratagems within 12" of them cost +2CP 🤣 (This is such hairy cheese Jank I cannot see it lasting without a rules update for more than a week surely? 😄)

[@nateforsberg2990]

I’ve been having a lot of success and really enjoying running 2 or more full krieg blobs with a marshal and primaris psyker. It’s 250 points in total so if you need it cheaper remove the marshal. I was amazed at how the psyker greatly increases the durability of the unit on her own against shooting and she does a lot of damage with her psychic attack. I’ve had some games where I’ve only reinforced once or twice so thicker units like that might be the new game plan.

[@MaximusSektor40K]

I see another possible nerf on the Tank Commnaders - Rules Commentary page 17, top left - looks like a counter to usung "Death befiting an officer" after death in close combat. This is huge blow against agressive use of those units.

[@Thural448]

if you want to max out born soldiers chimeras [Squadron] with heavy weapons [Regiment] teams could now be a good option... facing a tank -> but your 3 heavy bolter / missile launcher in the cimera facing infantry -> get them out of the chimera

[@hobbybro3902]

Still have been putting my Guard army together so haven’t played a game with them. However by watching Mordians videos My collection has been geared toward sort of all comers, and Mech Guard. Overall I’m optimistic of the changes. I think they need to clarify if daring recon can affect artillery despite the 1-3 is always a miss. Until that I’ll play it as it doesn’t. Well good luck to all.

[@olivermatthews8110]

Probably a coincidence, but I recall that the dorn being above 250 meant that GSC couldn't do some of their nonsense with it in brood brothers; which has also just been rewritten...

[@notsabbat]

Funny thing is that I've been spending the last month or so building a Sentinel/Chimera span list cause I think those units are really cool. Now they both got buffed 😂

[@crazyyelir4127]

Reinforcements also affects the new Kroot Detachment.

[@Crunch2327]

Dont care, still throwing 250 gas mask boys as krieg, inf and scions into the grinder. I dont do tournaments, I'll play how I want. GW can suc k on a krieg spade.

[@Fred-bw3no]

I feel like this detachment ignores a lot of units because they’re accounting for incoming codex detachments. Which would be great, if we had those

[@Amdor]

Double-strat is gone and Admech didn't even notice.

[@CadianRefugee]

Really great summary. Thank you for doing this.

[@kevinbarrio]

After 10 years wanting to play 40k, 1 year seeing your vids, I'm finally about to finish painting my first Combat Patrol to play my first games... And I'm was loving it. Until I've saw this vid... So now, technically, they have nerfed ALL the things they could? They nerfed the troops, the tanks (that pivot thing I don't know how can be good for us...) and the artillery. Oh, and the Stratgems and fun/intesting things. Even the Born Soldiers. Well, this "Let's play 40k once and for all!" dream was reeeeeeeaaaally short lived. :(

[@johnmossfordmacgregor973]

Don't give up yet Always struggled to get infantry objectives effective and lethal Now I can. Army is now mobile and lethal not stationary lethal which is much better tactical to win games Give ita go

[@kevinbarrio]

@@johnmossfordmacgregor973 Well, I was gonna build something like Armoured Fists but with a lot of heavy weapons shooting from chimeras. My idea was to be stationary, defensive, and blast all I can from my def position. Now I have to play aggresive, which I hate (I played Khorne a lot on Fantasy and I didn't like it at all.

[@LynKrieger]

Still give it a go we are fun to play

[@drizzziit1]

You are being overly dramatic these are good changes especially you only have a combat patrol you barely started your collection.

[@ksamuel9]

Dramatic

[@grunhold]

It seems like GW hinted at this with the Guard Battleforce this Christmas being 2 Dorns?

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

I got into guard because tanks were cool, especially the Baneblade and its variants. I wish the Baneblade benefited from these rule changes.

[@sircrim8694]

That's so dumb, my god

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

And that's great I want people to have their chance to play. I got into guard because artillery is cool and I was just finishing my list to actually play it when this happened.😢

[@texassasquatch5734]

I think as a role play or flavor thing you can think of the vehicle mounted weapons have a larger power source....With Firing from a firing platform maybe the Infantry weapons are "Plugged In"...Love your videos

[@striderfox71]

Planning on a kited out 60 dkok 30 rough riders and a damn baneblade for my army of feudal guardsmen

[@santiagorodriguez5338]

I got into guard because I was in the army as an artillerymen (RedLegs!). Still looking to play them in a mech infantry format

[@beanman853]

Its a very big win for guard rules wanting you to play warhammer especially as competative guard lists were not fun for your opponent because your damage units were uninteractable. It seems like lists need to be fully redesigned.

[@zsoltlang2144]

I am painting my 1st combat patroll currebtly, and I am happy to see that I will be able to roll with 3 units of bombast field gun

[@gabrielherron8023]

So, wild proposition: Direct Fire Praetor. Heresy I know, but hear me out. T11,18W, +2sv. Has squadron keyword, foehammer launcher is anti monster/vehicle 4+. Still expensive as hell, but it could work

[@nickthenoodle9206]

100pts Gaunt’s Ghosts 125pts Chimera + 10 Catachans 125pts Chimera + 10 Catachans 125pts Chimera + 10 Catachans 145pts Vanquisher 145pts Vanquisher 145pts Vanquisher 240pts Rogal Dorn 240pts Rogal Dorn 240pts Rogal Dorn 70pts MTS squad 300pts TS x5 x4 + x10 x1 Guard got buffed.

[@colonelsanders82]

FWIW, only using reinforcements once per battle does free up our CP to be used in other ways. So while Creed is not the CP bargain she used to be, we will have more CP to work with. Also, Devil Dogs with Lethal Hits vs. Vehicles sounds interesting. Not Meta or anything like that, but interesting.

[@Mad_mountain05]

Good man @mordianglory we appreciate you sir!

[@callumjohnston858]

I got into guard for the Tallarn. Luckily, this doesn't affect me too much, since I'm not too artillery driven. But it does shake up how I've been playing in a big way.

[@WordoftheFree]

They did this to sell more Dorns..... They will pivot away from them again after making there sales quota... They will say "Well, the Dorn spam is to powerful so we had to dial it back". Then they will pivot back to infantry by either making the point cost less or increasing the reinforcement stratagem to Twice per game......

[@BentJacket]

I think the reinforcement type strats should start at 1 CP and go up 1 CP in cost, each time they are used.

[@MaxderFranke]

18:12 the patrol "send in the next wave" is a good balance. gw can fix this in normal 40k.

[@dcaruss3959]

Unit idea Stug basilisk Run around w a scout sentinel for the rerolls and use the basilisk as a chimera based anti tank meme unit cheaper than a russ and more punchy the time of the direct indirect meme has begun

[@Paparoachdude581]

The artillery nerfs are a huge hit, just got into 40K this year. Built an army around a full mechanization theme, needless to say this is hugely disheartening considering my basilisks are now nerfed into obscurity.

[@hpenvy1106]

It's remarkable that the "new" kits, wich came out end of ninth all where buffed/cheapend. Rogal, Kasrk and Field Arty. I love the changed detachmentrule, I want to be running, not standing around

[@ChainsawDunDeez]

Yeah...Im not a guard player ( I do dream about making a penal legion army)... but I’m always “rooting” for them.. I think the reforcement strat should be once every turn but maybe on a roll of 4+ or something like that...to balance it out

[@Bradtheartguy]

Honestly the Ursula Creed nerf isn't so bad considering we're going to have all of the CP that we used to use on reinforcements.

[@ghost9pm407]

Thats pretty much what I found in a test game. I would get a CP back here and there from the voxcasters as well so that helped also.

[@oblivionfan345Tony]

I disagree about Daring Recon. Artillery may be cheaper but now they NEED Scout Sentinels to be effective and if your opponent has good target priority they can remove a single sentinel easily. If you pay for 3 they can still take that down with dedicated firepower and it's a big tax to pay

[@ferggerman]

I have a thematic Krieg army with 3 Earthshaker Carriage batteries and a load of infantry and im like *Peter Griffen death pose*

[@ferggerman]

*this update sucks for me

[@haydenleffler8616]

@@ferggermansame brother, I played exactly how you did.

[@ferggerman]

@@haydenleffler8616 kindred spirit

[@ghost9pm407]

Earthshaker Batteries actually aren't too bad because they would usually hit on 4's anyway. Losing Lethals sucks but I could see still running 2 for some chip damage and the slow effect. Maybe you could swap one out for a Field Ordnance Battery if you want to keep it somewhat competitive while still retaining your theme.

[@davidmcfadden2199]

I think reinforcements should allow a destroyed character at this point to return to a unit that was destroyed or bring back a character to that unit if it’s once per battle

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

My list came down by like 20 points. So sure Mordian Those three extra guardsmen of points will make up for not being able to cycle my rough riders, losing a chance to hit on my artillery, and paying an extra command point a round for Creed's FOF. This is a massive nerf for any artillery forward guard lists. I literally just got my list together😢 The fact of the matter is that if they're going to make game-wide changes like this they need to go in and change everything that it's affected by to the second and third order. They should have included sweeping changes to data sheets, abilities, stratagems, and enhancements that don't make any sense anymore with these changes. Since they didn't it just feels half-ass, because it is. Just saying right now that our units need to be tankier if we're not going to have reinforcements to rely on. Not just cheaper stronger. Like you said if we can only use it once then our infantry When you max out on them like you did needs to be able to make it the five battle rounds against the enemy shooting, and rough riders need to be able to take a punch without folding. There's lots of evidence in this data slate that they are not following their own rules and waiting for enough data before making big nerfs. CSM in particular, They literally we're still using partially index data on stat check podcast it's been out for so little time before getting slapped with nerfs with NO BUFFS ON THE STUFF THAT IS TRASH. You aren't just looking at this through the lens of the guard, Guard is my newest army but The same thing is happening with orks and CSM. I don't even want to spam artillery, I'm a mixed arms player I want to have 25% of my points in artillery, 25% in vehicles, and 50% in infantry and officers. I also disagree with your logic to always play a rule against yourself. That's not fair to yourself. You say that otherwise you can chance some feels bad but basically you're saying default gives yourself feels bads. I don't agree with that. From looking at the rule I don't see how the hits on one to three is always fail is not a penalty? It's written right in there in the line with the other penalties that we ignore like the -1 to hit and cover. So yeah I don't know how people are reading this like OverWatch it's clear as day to me that it's a penalty. Sure they're going to FAQ it but they wrote it as a penalty, GW sure doesn't go in and and make sure that problems that negatively impact us that They didn't think about get fixed quickly, When it goes in our favor enjoy it Don't just punish yourself to be safe.

[@richard9268]

Time to go back and review the Leman Russ loadouts. Plasma Death Ball is back baybee!!!

[@bluntpencil2001]

If it were up to me, I'd have the lethal hits decided by the Strength of the attack. If it's 8 or under, lethal hits vs non vehicles and monsters. If it's 8 or higher, lethal hits vs vehicles and monsters. Melta and overheated plasma get both, because S8. That being said, it's not awful. My Leman Russ Company (ten tanks!) can now either take three squads of Catachans in Chimeras, or one squad of Catachans in a Chimera along with 3 Hydras. What I've been doing for years is now very effective!

[@Kingofdragons117]

Meltas are S9 though.

[@Talonz501]

yup, heavy lascannon FOB getting lethals vs infantry is @#$%ing stupid.

[@bluntpencil2001]

@@Kingofdragons117 Good catch. No big deal. Only plasma on overheat gets both then.

[@lordravenblade]

Haven't sold enough Dorns yet.

[@CinderellasStinkyFoot]

I don't see why everyone is crying about arty. My basilisks never got ordered anyway. They still hit on 4s and reroll 1s from Sentinels. And they still slow which was the best thing. Ya they lost lethals but I wasn't hitting armor with arty anyway and every other unit gained a better lethal. Plus bassys went down in points. I'll give up 3 basilisk lethals all day for everything else getting better.

[@jaredisley-oliver389]

I started as a mech guard player. So I am happy to have a more viable play list for that. But I was also building an Arty list cause I love me my WW1 history! So it’s a mixed bag for me

[@venkelos6996]

I'm inclined to say Guard need their codex, and I say that, trying not to sound dumb, because I feel like it's needed so we can see how THEY (GW) want people to play Guard. In some ways, I feel like Guard were able to squeeze a number of very different styles of list out of their single detachment, and that even with it having an ability most Guard weren't benefiting from, but then they kept saying "true, but we'd rather this NOT be your preferred play style." Could indirect spam be an issue? Highly uninteractive? Yes, but it was also the majority of the faction that DID benefit from sitting still. Oh, you would rather we not hide out behind ruins, and go into combat? Well, Guard are just mortals, so it's a good thing we can afford to have them gunned down, and reinforce them...what? We're getting too many "free" units of extra models? Only once a game, now? So, maybe the Sentinels, or Catachan, bur probably just the durable Kriegers? It kind of feels like catering toward tournament play, where they care how long your turn takes, and moving/shooting a tank is quicker than moving 20 models, trying to best spread them out for screening, or hide key ones, or park them just the right distance from the edge of the terrain feature to best serve their needs, and so I kind of wish Guard had their book, just so GW had to say "These are the 4-6 play styles we are balancing for/against, and want to see st tournaments, and build around. Some infantry feel that little bit less expendable, so it would be nice if they had to depict how they want to support infantry play, or just give other rules to orher styles, so they work better, and feel supported, in a way GW hopefully then won't immediately bsckpedal on. Don't know when that might happen, but hopefully sooner, rather than later. Sisters might still have an issue, or two, but they've finally shown us that they CAN make an Imperium codex that doesn't catch fire upon contact with play, and since it is obvious that there are a few ways they'd prefer Guard don't play, it would be nice if THEYVhad to show what they like/recommend, even if that doesn't make for good. It can at least help flesh out what their head game looks like, for decisions they make.

[@HenryEaton]

Woof do i feel bad for running a artillery list relying on reinforcing battleline units to drown the objectives in bodies. It feels like our worst rule has been improved and our best rule has been nerfed in to oblivion. Fully appreciate the indirect nerf. Bassys hitting on 2s was a bit stupid

[@AnonD38]

If only GW had given us a rule change that had allowed us to blast our own Infantry in exchange for the Artillery nerf...

[@Bakon65]

Bassis being able to hit on 2+ is great when Melee Factions on the board

[@slyoldowl]

In reality we blow up grid squares for a living so not far off

[@spymaster0017]

I think they still can with the scout sentinel

[@HenryEaton]

@@spymaster0017 you're huffing copium, friend. Daring recon removes the -1 to hit penalty of indirect and lets you reroll 1s. It doesn't remove the 2s and 3s always miss.

[@edrakerz1567]

I love playing the guard because of the fluff. I am missing one unit though that would be super nice to have. A dedicated stealthy scout unit. Let me field a 10 man unit of Tanith that has infiltrator. Yes I know that Gaunt's Ghosts has a Character unit, but I would love to have an "other" unit.

[@xMcCabe32x]

All battle line infantry should go down 5pts for min sized squad and 15pts for max sized squads. ie 10 cadians 55pts 20 cadians 105. I also would have liked our transports to lose squadron and gain regiment. If they kept squadron I’d be fine with that too Otherwise I’m happy/fine with everything

[@SpartaMacIntyre]

I agree that the new Born Soldiers is, overall, a buff - it's both more useful (unless you were very artillery heavy) and more fun (still getting it with units being mobile). My main issue is with units that do the 'wrong thing' - Mordian notes infantry units with anti-armour and monster weapons, but it's just as bad for dedicated infantry-hunting vehicles like the LR Punisher and...oh dear, the unfortunate little Wyvern. Didn't even get a points decrease, the poor lamb :( I hope that, with Indirect Fire only being allowed to hit on 4s, they'll alter the Scout Sentinel and Expert Bombardiers 'spotting' abilities: maybe they could make the weapon Ignore Cover? Or Sustained Hits if, like the Wyvern, it already Ignores Cover? Re-roll misses? I understand concerns about artillery being too powerful on its own, but I think it's completely fair for it to go from merely OK to really bloody deadly *if it's being assisted by another unit or a Strat*.

[@honey_badger1450]

I personally like being pigeon-holed into a specific playstyle and having thematic lists and even whole detachments *cough nids unending swarm *cough being made to be unplayable . I also admire that instead of designing that mission pack around the current rules sets, they do whatever the f*ck they want and re-write the ruleset to fit their mission pack. Probably a result of the overwhelming community consensus that we hate fun.

[@chikumori5530]

GW hate guard. Unless you're mechanized guard. Then you're merely acceptable as long as you aren't winning.

[@Thural448]

If I get it right the lethal hits from detachment rule now even affects overwatch!

[@jcrosato]

I think it would make more sense if specific tanks or units had a keyword that put them in either anti infrantry born soldiers or anti-tank born soldiers. Doesn't make sense to have Chimeras lethal vs tanks, or punishers/eradicators vs tanks. And the ommission of Tank Commander and baneblades.

[@johnmossfordmacgregor973]

Callidus and aquila enhancement can zone a lot of the board with the +1 CP TO stratagems

[@729060]

Massive nerf to guard it feels like, plenty of units that don't get detachment rules now, and a stealth nerf to Drill Commander as you still need to stay still for the 5+ crits. I understand the argument "JuSt pLaY TaNkS AnD InFaNtRy" but receiving both the massive IDF nerf and the Reinforcements nerf feels like lists need to be built from the ground up. At least Sentinels for now getting lethals hits all, likely until the next FAQ, will justify my love of autocannon Armored Sentinels. Also FOB lascannons are now in a weird place getting lethal against infantry but not vehicles or monsters

[@horonin]

I got into guard because I wanted to make a Vietnam style army, and that's what I used to run. Artillery in the back, and then dropping off AirCav with Valkyries and lots of troops. I definitely choose a theme to build my list around though, and try to make that theme as good as I can, rather than trying to build for pure strength.

[@y2j1490yahoo]

Dumb

[@RJALEXANDER777]

They could've just done born soldiers via weapon strength. less than eight gets lethals against non-vehicles/monsters, eight and up gets lethals against them. Generally speaking you don't want to be targeting chaff and infantry with a high strength weapon. And if you are you don't need a damage buff anyway. The only odd interaction I can think of would be plasma guns, those would become anti-armour/monster when supercharged. Similar situation with other multi-profile weapons.

[@marknus89]

I love my infantry and artillery, and right now, it sucks pretty hard. This update sucks for me. But like he said. Gotta pivot now.

[@MrSenger285]

Played in a tourney today, with the new points. 2 dorns, 2 vanquishers, it’s a sweet spot.

[@richardbaker4088]

nidz artillery meta incoming. they got our lethal hits.

[@janehrahan5116]

Sentinels can have lethal hits versus everything, but I can't field 5 questoris because 400 would be "too crazy" for all the mid questoris variants :( I think without lethal hits for indirect fire fobs and hwt are dead, basilisks are the only guard arty left due to move reduction imo.

[@Kingofdragons117]

But you *can't* field 5 Questoris because of the rule of 3. There is only one knight that is 400. So the max big knights is 4.

[@janehrahan5116]

@@Kingofdragons117 thats my point, its almost like you assumed I was wrong before reading then just never actually comprehended what I said. "but I can't field 5 questoris because 400 would be 'too crazy' for all the mid variants" so those with reading comprehension would realize that some variants are not mid (specifically galants which are the only 400 point one), but realistically all the ones which are 405 (all of them except galant, crusader, and warden) could be 400 without affecting the balance of any armgir heavy list, but it ruins me from running 5 big bois in a normal game.

[@alukemckool]

Not much of a guard player but as a follower of the star gods I need to adapt can you do a video on brood brother choices in the GSC detachment what sort of units synergies with the cult. So many tanks and units need clarification

[@iljastutz4181]

Want muh astra codex We need it more than lethal hits

[@markwhittenberg1694]

Depends on which writing team has our codex.

[@Demane69]

@@markwhittenberg1694 And if Amazon's vision affects Guard. It's not exactly an army that attracts whatever new audience they seem to corrupt things for.

[@ColonelHoganStalag13]

@@Demane69 Oh I'm sure we'll get another female character to replace a man they killed off. Nothing like have Lord Castellan Creed killed off so he could be replaced with a lunch lady who is his daughter to mock manliness. But I don't play Cadians and their co-ed approach to war.

[@arnekrug939]

​@@Demane69 GW killing Forge World units is much more worrying.

[@chikumori5530]

@@Demane69 Go cope and seethe with the other incels on the Horus sub.

[@AceofSpadesPlayer]

But wait, Theres more! As the lethal hits via Attachments are now Changed. What about the rapier laser Destroyer battery?! Wouldnt it become now more usefull? Due to its uniqe ability to get OVERALL lethal hits when given orders? It fires 2 laser Destroyer shots per model, is twinlinked, strgh 12!, but ap -2 and it cost almost twice than a HWT. It is infantry, so you can stuck it inside a ruin and maybe get hailing fire and slap it fof to get it Ap -4.

[@Kytharion]

My WW1 style guard are dead... Can't get the detachment bonuses when I shoot vehicles, cant bring in more than 1 wave of reinforcements. Artillery nerfed hard... I got into guard cuz I had this vision of a fluffy army in my head that could still be decent on the table top... Epic sad.

[@michaelslack7359]

As a tread head tank commander I just have a 💩eating across my face! Pour one out for the infantry corp after the reinforcement strat change though

[@357Dejavu]

Got in to guard because I like Sentinel, Rough Rider and Valkyrie Models lol

[@JonmarkPlummer]

Mordian our tank shock also got a major buff.

[@samholmes5552]

So I just picked the perfect time to grab 2 baneblades

[@LokiLaughs2]

Easy fix. All weapons S5 or less get the regiment bonus S6+ squadron. That or maybe S7+, but the concept is simple.

[@joelpratley9248]

Am I the only one which actually enjoys these changes?! We finally have a great detachment rule and each unit can now really play for movement and objectives. Doulble dorn, maybe even triple dorn?! Awesome. Armoured Sentinels got way better! Lascannons/Autocannons! (So bring them back) IMO infantry got way better too, scions and kasrkin are gonna bring the hurt!... And for the fun of a malleus rocket launcher at 110pts could really do some damage!... Oh I am bummed that rough riders are slightly nerfed due to 'pivot' boo!

[@oinked]

Im not entirely convinced on the new detachment rule at all. Not only because a huge number of our units are neither regiment nor squadron but also because the detachment rule seems apparently counter to the actual role of lots of units... Chimeras you already touched on, but also Leman russ punishers are anti infantry, but get lethals against tanks!?

[@Jo_Der_Punk]

Well they get devastating vs. Infantry, so you really don't want lethals on it.

[@oinked]

And actually thinking about it this change might just make the punisher a useful take... Good for clearing infantry but also can turn it's attention to heavier targets to fish fo lethals...

[@arikrause3043]

Makes sense that we can't ignore the indirect fire penalty thanks to Daring Recon....but is it still fair to reroll 1s for indirect fire weapons? Or a roll of 1-3 an auto fail that can't be rerolled?

[@ghost9pm407]

The general consensus I've seen is that re-rolls are fine. So the manticore and scout sentinel re-rolls still work.

[@johncolvin2754]

Let it roll baby roll!

[@Wildanc2227]

The new Born Soldiers Detachment Rule has a buffed side but it's just dumb overall. It doesn't make the IG feels IG. The former one did. Now it makes us feel GW just plainly lacks imagination.

[@arnekrug939]

Fluff realy is important for me, I will just refuse to play Kasrkin with my Krieg units or the Lord Solar with my Vostroyans because it doesn't fit the feel of the army.

[@mjr8888]

Yeah, I'm not the type to play meme lists, or stick to meta lists. I'll still play with artillery, but I just need to take the right pieces. Same with infantry. I like the idea of Sentinel Mech Guard, but that doesn't mean I, or other Guardsmen, need to stick to the same thing every single time, you know?

[@Burger013]

I think this is overall a net positive with a couple things that're annoying, I think the fatigue of an Index edition is getting to everyone and is especially hurting new players. My Ulthwe army hasn't matched the fantasy they're supposed to have and I think many people are feeling this with their own armies.

[@petrsukenik9266]

Only think that i hate about is that dorn got cost buff to the point its cheaper than malcador tank. Thats just stupid.

[@sircrim8694]

I still think that the worst is losing reinfrcement more than once, until we get other detachment rules, that's suck for the entirety of the faction. Though I do believe that arty is kinda dead other than 3 cheap Mortars HWT which is still a must have in most list

[@roderickhamilton9891]

They did the same nerf to reinforcements in 6th edition - Send in the Next Wave was a really flavourful ability, then they said it couldn't be used in matched play. This is a pretty major fuck you to infantry guard and given how beloved that formation type is to those who've been collecting for years and years it just stinks.

[@joshbbrad2366]

Biggest issue I have as a player who prefers mechanized infantry, is reinforcements being nerfed. Not being able to bring back multiple units is a huge blow. Most stratagems are useless in my army, except Fields of Fire and Reinforcements. Now, it's honestly difficult to stay in the game long term (already played two games with the changes).

[@cooliosntsprtc]

I got into guard and 40k because I fell in love with the valkyrie....

[@Bobamelius]

oops

[@JaySharp604]

Chimera's certainly got buffed. They were already good, and now they can damage medium vehicles, and tank shock for 9 dice to everything.