Humanist Community Forum (2014-01-19): Ten Beautiful Lies About Jesus (David Fitzgerald)

[@Antis14CZ]

I like how at the end, David stresses that his goal is to cast doubt on the historicity of Jesus, but not to the point of accepting the myth hypothesis as true, period. He knows he can't put forward a definite proof that Jesus never existed and freely admits it. That's intellectual honesty and I applaud it. He's also right that it's not required - theists claim knowledge and the only thing needed for disbelief is to show that they don't actually have that knowledge.

[@tomsheehy1]

Antis14cz : He is more than casting doubt on the historicity of jesus. He is showing the complete lack of any credible evidence to back up the claims asserted by theists. Why would anyone have to show a definitive proof that someone or something does not exist?. This is a fallacy and is not required in any debate. Otherwise we would have to provide evidence that leprecauns , Loch Ness monster, bigfoot etc. do not exist.

[@I-AmTheLiquor]

@@tomsheehy1 Precisely 👌🏼

[@stchew49]

David Fitzgerald's scapegoat remark about Barabbas deserves full credit. In deed, Barabbas' full name is Jesus Barabbas! Later bible translators deliberately left out the 'Jesus' part of the name in order to conceal the truth that he is a character of Jewish typology and that he never existed! Check this out on Wikipedia!

[@lonewolfmtnz]

A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle.

[@livedreamincolor]

"All advances in biblical study begin as blasphemy"...priceless.

[@valerieangell7588]

Thanks a whole hell of a lot Constantine...way to go.

[@oakwise]

Kelly Kelli - pointing out dishonesty is what ethical people do. We do it at work. We do it at school. We do it in politics. We do it in all aspects of our lives - save one. What you are seeing is not bashing someone's cherished beliefs. I agree that it feels like it. I wish it didn't, but if people wrap their egos up in unprovable claims - if those claims turn out to be fragile, they will naturally get defensive. Again, I'm sorry - but those of us pointing out the enormous shortcomings of the Bible did not create them. And that IS the point. What you are seeing is nothing more than people's cherished beliefs being treated the same way you and I treat every other bit of information in our lives. The blame for these Biblical beliefs not holding up to scrutiny lies squarely on the authors of the bible. The simple fact (and it is a fact) is both the religious and the historical claims in the Bible do not stand up to honest scrutiny. Even the exclusive claim to the moral high ground cannot be validated. In all fairness, the one and only reason this horrible book has survived for 1400 years (not 2000) was because merely suggesting it might be worth a critical look at the validity of the texts would get you ostracized, or beaten, or killed.

[@livedreamincolor]

That was great. Perfectly stated. Also, I find it ironic that 1000 years ago, the Islamic world was the tolerant side and kept some scientific thinking (don't got it but glad others do :) alive during the "dark" and "middle" ages.

[@MrYou4ia]

"In all fairness, the one and only reason this horrible book has survived for 1400 years (not 2000)..." Oakwise, you are clearly missing a lot of information and evidence about the Bible. ALL of the Atheist type skeptics I've ever conversed with have ever only looked at one side of the story. And never listened carefully- to the other side of the story- whether it could possibly be true. Number one, It's proven the Bible is much older than 1400 years old. The Dead Sea Scrolls, found in about 1950 A,D,, contain N.T. manuscripts that carbon dated to 1st Cetury A,D. And the D.S.S's contain O.T. manuscripts such and entact manuscript of The Great Isaiah Scroll that carbon dated to about 150 B.C. WHICH has detail specific Messianic prophecies describing- Jesus Christ, the Messiah. You should also carefully examine Daniel 9:24-27, Micah 5:2, and Isaiah 9:6. Then compare those to the N.T. scriptures addressing them. Then examine the hundreds of other O.T, Messianic prophecies pointing to the only figure in history that even closely resembles who they describe- Jesus Christ. These prophecies are way too detailed and specific for there to be any mistake. God has provided the evidence you require. You just haven't sought it out. FitzG's, and ALL of the other "nay sayers" out there just don't know all of the facts, nor do they want to know. The claims in this vid about the gospels and a "fabricated/exaggerated Christ" are based on conjecture only and ZERO evidence. It's a wild conspiracy theory that doesn't hold up to evidence we know to exist and based on a lot of assumptions. The "gospels" that were not canonized, as so many point to, were not for very good reasons- they were not inspired by God... they weren't written by His followers... they weren't in accord with other then known Word of God including the O.T. Examine both sides and ALL the evidence (physical and circumstantial) I mean, unless your eyes are just utterly blind and you wish to not see. Unless you don't really WANT to know if there is a God and if the Bible is His word. If that's the case, just ignore what I'm saying.

[@rationalmartian]

None of that makes the slightest difference. NO book can be used as evidence for supernatural claims. We need much more (extraordinary) evidence for such an extraordinary claim. Assertions from an old anon book, written at a time of superstition and ignorance, that is internally contradictory simply could never be such for any reasonable, rational person. I wonder why do you accept the supernatural claims in this book, but not any other. By what standard do you judge between (on their face) very similar claims from other so called revered books. BTW, you seem to have a serious case of projection.

[@MrYou4ia]

rationalmartian Well, "rational" one, have you ever looked at or read the Bible? How about Isaiah 53? Or do you just claim to know all about what you really know nothing?

[@jeffwells641]

MrYou4ia Uhh... the portion of the Dead Sea Scrolls written in Greek (i.e. the New Testament portion) is dated to about 300 AD, it's only the copies of the Hebrew Bible (canonized and non-canonized) and the sectarian manuscripts regarding various beliefs of specific groups in Judaism that are dated older. That's why historians date the NT Bible to 300 AD. They're not idiots.

[@Doriesep6622]

(Some who lived during or very close to Jesus supposed physical life and who never wrote one word about him): Emperor Titus, Cassius Dio, Maximus, Moeragenes, Lucian, Soterichus Oasites, Euphrates, Marcus Aurelius, Damis of Hierapolis.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Jesus was a delusional messianic preacher who believed he could rise from the dead. So let's make up a story in which he did suspend the Laws of Nature.

[@douglasdaniels1521]

Josephus, the greatest 1st century historian, wrote of Jesus.

[@GetterBane]

@@douglasdaniels1521 As someone who has read Josephus the parts that weren't forgery atleast that is completely fucking wrong the first mention is completely fake and the second one is taking about a completely different guy if you read it in its entirety it make sense

[@shiningdiamond5046]

@@GetterBane No this is entirely as it was never proven a forgery but only argued as such by skeptics who can't even do basic historical analysis of what a text does or does not say

[@philipfarnam6013]

@@douglasdaniels1521 Right...sixty-years after the events...via a forgery by Eusebius written hundreds of years later. In non-forged, verifiable text he also wrote about Hercules and seeing the remains of the pillar of salt that was formerly Lot's wife.

[@SewerTapes]

Jesus is alive an well. Yesterday I picked him up from the local Home Depot, and he helped me build a deck out back.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Jesus is a common name both then and now.

[@carlpen850]

@ Sewer Tapes... when I lived in southern Arizona Jesus and I used to hit the bars, shoot pool and fool with da ladies... nudge nudge know what I mean?

[@marcusagrippa8078]

It looks like he’s still doing miracles too because it was a damn miracle that the deck finally got built.

[@AntisocialAtheist1]

That's crazy because I actually just picked him up at mernards, and he remodeled my kitchen. He did a great job until he began drinking Bud Light and pissed in my cats litter box and eventually puked in the kitchen trashcan. I would have been OK with all of that, but I caught him taking a dump in my dish washer an hour later, so I fired him, and he took off.

[@SewerTapes]

@@AntisocialAtheist1 Well, he does work in mysterious ways.

[@Doriesep6622]

What about Christ between the two thieves? Crucifixion was only for enemies of the state. A couple of pickpockets would have been dispatched immediately. It was a lot of trouble to crucify people. They even had to reuse nails. If they crucified thieves they would have been very busy. And that chit chat from the cross. It is too painful to chat. It sounds like Monty Python's little crucifixion scene.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Jesus criticized the authorities, preached the end of the world, stirred up the people and publicly blasphemed agaimst the Hebrew religion. Four reasons to make a public example of him.

[@robertring4252]

Some things in life are bad They can really make you mad Other things just make you swear and curse When you're chewing on life's gristle Don't grumble, give a whistle And this'll help things turn out for the best And Always look on the bright side of life Always look on the light side of life 😇

[@PfctvsPontivsPilatvs]

53:29 The criminal Constantine totally revamped Christianity, too. So much so that you might as well say he *invented* it, like Calpurnpiso does.

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

He and his mother Helena cooked it all up as a political tool.

[@shiningdiamond5046]

This is a laughable fable and a myth of modernists and JWs but keep trying

[@Firecat719]

The dates of Jesus' birth and death, based on accounts of King Herod's reign, Caesar's reign and when Pilate was in office. Here's something most people seem to miss, add one more bit of info: Jesus was 30 y/o when he started. His mission lasted 3 years. This places him at 33 y/o at the time of Crucifixion... I often prefer to spell it, "CruciFICTION." So, around 18 - 19 minutes in, he says, "Jesus must have been born sometime before 4 BC or after 6 CE and died between 31- 33 CE. Given his 33 year lifespan, this is not possible. For all this to remotely hold true he would need to have been born - give or take a year - 2BC. However, this would have been 2 years AFTER Herod's death. So we miss that possibility for logic reasoning of a date of birth. Other bible scholars place his death at 27 CE, suggestion a birth - give or take a year - at 6 BC. This 6 BC estimate would have put him at the age of 2, when Herod was supposedly on his baby killing tirade - But is this were true, Pilate would not hold office for another 5-6 years, AFTER the Crucifiction! So how does all this show a major screw up, when Rome was writing their bible? The Gregorian calender. The initial date concept for that calender was, later, proven to have been off by a couple years. Wherein, when they tried to set the date of Jesus' birth as 1 AD .. thus 33 AD [CE] closely works for the date of death. However, a couple centuries later, the calender was corrected. Hence, 6 BC would be the new birth date. Yet the Roman records - acquired AFTER the correction - still places Pilate in office between 31-33 CE. Thus making Jesus 39 y/o at the time of death. Based on the Bible, this age is NOT correct. And we all know how infallible the bible is [

[@stchew49]

+Firecat719 Crucifiction is the right word!

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

If a movie script had as many plot holes as the Bible does, that script would end up in the garbage.

[@Doriesep6622]

It's like 2000 years from now, people "believing" in Harry Potter.

[@JM-ot8ux]

And they will battle the forces of Star Wars.

[@deanhunt2691]

Harry potter is real it says so in the harry potter books .

[@AllansStation]

Of course Harry Potter is reel my six year old told me so. I am starting The Church of Potter. I invite you to join.

[@shiningdiamond5046]

@@deanhunt2691 false equivalence

[@hellmouthisnogod1952]

Might be the Church of Dumbledore (who continues to be present in some form after death) with Harry Potter being his prophet and the ghost of Voldemort as the bad anti-God.

[@GodlessScummer]

That joke at the end of this talk about Jesus's last words was pure blasphemy. Everyone knows that Jesus's actual last words on the cross were "Always look on the bright side of life." :-)

[@whitestguyuknow]

MrMetalover666 lol I couldn't help but automatically read that in the song even hearing the tones afterwards

[@terrytibbs5678]

I'm Brian, and so is my wife.

[@deskelly9313]

Ooh! You can see our house from here

[@MartTLS]

You’re all individuals . Yes we are.

[@pennysmith2012]

Really guys I was only joking, he’s not my dad

[@gowdsake7103]

I wish he would slow down, it's a bit manic

[@jrhunter007]

A concise, compelling presentation revealing the seemingly endless fallacies, contradictions and incongruity that Christian doctrine is built on. Whether "Yashua" actually existed or not is somewhat irrelevant, given the hugely mythical persona the "Jesus" of today represents. In light of the state-of-the art in science and history, it is only through ignorance and/or blatant denial that followers can adhere to their faith in this, the age of information.

[@MrYou4ia]

Oh really? I see you give no facts or references to back up your bold claims. Look at my comment above and give answer. Have you looked at both sides of an argument before drawing your conclusion and spewing it out to others?

[@jrhunter007]

Can you, MrYou., be THAT obtuse? Did you not watch, listen, and understand the facts, references and claims made in the video that my commentary relates to? You want me to reinvent the wheel so that you may deny and ignore that as well? Because you can not see past the illusion you hold, you assume others are as narrow minded on the other side of the argument? I have studied the Bible, Christianity, and the history of both in detail, and I have studied science. My evidence-based conclusions are well founded, and hold up to scrutiny and reason to a degree that the outdated dogma of religion can not even begin to. My position results from critical thinking rather than indoctrination. But alas, we waste each other's time, for YOU are blinded by your faith.

[@jrhunter007]

MrYou4ia To the Jews, by definition, Yahshua is not, was NOT, COULD NOT have been the/a messiah. Read "How Jesus Became God", Bart Ehrman. He definitively refutes your view regarding the prophecies you have invested in as a means of validating a failed doctrine. You must educate yourself objectively, and appreciate the fallacies you use to support a myth. (By the way, I have been to the very place where the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered.)

[@MrYou4ia]

So, since you have apparantly researched this much more than I, please explain what or who Isaiah was refering to in chapter 53 (and there's a whole lot more than that, but it's a start). Yes, please, since you are so much more learned... enlighten us all and explain what Isaiah 53 means! Since you so strongly recommend a book, tell us what it says about Is 53,,, ;-)

[@jrhunter007]

Mr. You., this is like discussing whether the Earth is flat, or round, 6 thousand years old or 4.5 billion. You demand a response, as if what I write would sway you in any way. We both know it will not. I will answer your question, in a manner of answering a challenge, but will not invest more in this endless, fruitless debate. Do not ask more of me, find the right answers yourself. I am not an evangelist for reason. Isaiah 53 refers to THE NATION OF ISRAEL. You must know that the Christian interpretation(s) of I 53, the last of the four "Songs of the Suffering Servant", is(are) entirely divergent from the original, the rabbinical interpretation, which predates Christianity by 2000 years. Christianity has laid claim to I 53 based on "Acts", written by the same anonymous author as who wrote "Luke", in Rome or Antioch, no earlier than the year 60, and as late as the year 100, 30 to 70 years after the fact, and by the anonymous author of "Matthew" (8:17), most likely written in Syria, composed between 70 and 110. Such is the origin of your connection of I 53 with "Christós" ("the anointed"), consistent with the piecemeal manner in which the NT was cobbled together in an attempt to validate, create in effect, the legend you have bought. This connection of I 53 and Yahshua became important to "the Church" in medieval times in Europe, and through to the present among apologetics in the US, but going to the source reveals an entirely different meaning. Ask any rabbi or serious Biblical scholar, the Jewish scripture in Isaiah 52:13 through Isaiah 53:12 describes the "servant of the Lord" as the Nation of Israel, not a person, and certainly not a person by the name of Yahshua. Your creed suffers from such vague pronouncements of the "operations manual" (The Bible) you "live" by as to allow all manner of interpretations, evidenced by the thousands, even millions, of discordant beliefs held by the thousands of denominations that quarrel about which are true. The answer is that most are not, including your interpretation of the "prophesy" you have asked me to address, for the Bible itself is deeply flawed in countless ways, and has been obsolete for centuries. Most who cling to it have not read it, the few who have misunderstand it, and the fewer who don't, if any, are mislead. I don't expect you to agree, and it matters not. None the less, have a good evening! : )

[@davidpaull7612]

They included John as a gospel to placate the gnostics and marcions who they wanted to convert to the orthodox faith. John and Pauls letters are clearly based on a mystery religion. Mark was merely the popular parable book, which ended up being a literalist religion in its own right.

[@truthgiver8286]

I can't understand why Arsenal don't play him in goal

[@philipfarnam6013]

“…most people earnestly desired to have faith in something and are not intellectually equipped to quibble over what that object of belief might be.” -- Adolf Hitler

[@p.bamygdala2139]

36:02 Yom Kippur reference.... That was from Richard Carrier! Does this clip predate their collaboration?

[@beastshawnee4987]

The Christians I grew up around believed that no man had written the holy bible but that it was written by god’s holy hand itself, and also I would be going straight to hell for 1) questioning that fact and 2) not bothering to capitalize the word god and bi ble. They knew what god thought and god was going to burn me forever. And to this day most of the southern USA think pretty much this way. They are so immersed in their self congratulatory beliefs that they do not want to be wrong.

[@dudleybutakol2453]

Really mockery and deceiving. There is nothing that I believe in what you said. End time people will say things against him.

[@cratorius]

At 45:10, when he talks about Paul's view of Jesus, why does he quote Hebrews and the first letter of John? Does he believe that Paul wrote those?

[@NoWay1969]

24,000 manuscripts. Number from the first century? 0.

[@Hastein45]

The average classical author does not have any copies of his work until half a millennium after his work was composed. The Gospel of John, for instance, was likely written in the 90`s CE, yet we have an existing manuscript, P52, which dates to the early to mid-2nd century. We have almost a complete Gospel of John in 200 CE. Therefore that isn`t really a strong argument. Originals simply wore out.

[@NoWay1969]

Hastein45 The argument that _is_ strong is that the 24,000 manuscripts get sighted again and again by apologists without them explaining most of those date from the middle ages. They know the case for inerrancy or near-inerrancy is weak. The early christian writings and traditions most likely followed a similar path to mormon writings and teaching which we have better documentation of. That is to say, church heads made the manuscripts say what they wanted when they could and buried (literally in the case of Nag Hammadi) the rest.

[@livedreamincolor]

Hastein45 It's a very strong argument regarding the subjectivity of what we think we "know" as history. Many things I "knew" 29 years ago have been entirely changed due to new discoveries and better technology at understanding old ones. That's true for all types of history. "Secular' and not...the good historians admit the fluidity of their "facts"

[@exilfromsanity]

No Way, ice avatar

[@davidgibbs3657]

The relic, P52, referred to as an "existing manuscript," is a scrap...a fragment of a manuscript and is no bigger than a credit card, containing no more than two complete words.

[@jlhaxton]

Was anyone else on here a Christian for life and then became awakened to this? Being honest, it is very sad to me. How did you deal with this? Thanks

[@NoeticInsight]

If you are swayed by this feeble attempt at discrediting the existence of Jesus, then I suggest going to the library and doing a bunch of research and realizing how terrible and weak Fitzgerald's points are. The existence of Jesus, as a human being, is pretty much unanimously accepted by all top leading historians and ancient scholars. David Fitzgerald is out of his league, and his work is not taken serious by any leading historians. Here is some someone you should look up. Bart D. Ehrman...he's an atheist, a leading historian in the world, a distinguished university professor at North Carolina, a man who's written and edited 30 books which includes three University textbooks, and an overall genius. He believes Jesus existed as a real person, and guess what...he knows all the other top historians he says they pretty much all agree that Jesus existed as a real human being. That's just one damn example, of the MANY modern historians that believes Jesus was a real person. If you want some good books that talk about the historicity of Jesus then here is a small list of books you should read: Jesus Now and Then - By Richard A. Burridge and Graham Gould Jesus - By renowned historian Michael Grant The Historical Jesus: Five Views - By James K. Beilby The Historical Figure of Jesus - By E.P. Sanders...another renowned historian. Here are some quick wikipedia quotes for you, in case you don't have the time to read these books, dealing with the historicity of Jesus: "Nearly all modern scholars of antiquity, which is the majority viewpoint, agree that Jesus existed and most biblical scholars and classical historians see the theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted. There is no evidence today that the existence of Jesus was ever denied in antiquity by those who opposed Christianity." "According to New Testament scholar James Dunn, nearly all modern scholars consider the baptism of Jesus and his crucifixion to be historically certain. He states that these "two facts in the life of Jesus command almost universal assent" and "rank so high on the 'almost impossible to doubt or deny' scale of historical 'facts' they are obvious starting points for an attempt to clarify the what and why of Jesus' mission." John P. Meier views the crucifixion of Jesus as historical fact and states that based on the criterion of embarrassment Christians would not have invented the painful death of their leader. The criterion of embarrassment is also used to argue in favor of the historicity of the baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist as it is a story which the early Christian Church would have never wanted to invent. Based on this criterion, given that John baptised for the remission of sins, and Jesus was viewed as without sin, the invention of this story would have served no purpose, and would have been an embarrassment given that it positioned John above Jesus." "Amy-Jill Levine has summarized the situation by stating that "there is a consensus of sorts on the basic outline of Jesus' life" in that most scholars agree that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, and over a period of one to three years debated Jewish authorities on the subject of God, gathered followers, and was crucified by Roman prefect Pontius Pilate who officiated 26-36 AD." "Roman historian Tacitus referred to 'Christus' and his execution by Pontius Pilate in his Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44. The very negative tone of Tacitus' comments on Christians make the passage extremely unlikely to have been forged by a Christian scribe. The Tacitus reference is now widely accepted as an independent confirmation of Christ's crucifixion." "Historian Michael Grant wrote that: If we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus' existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned." "Josephus scholar Louis H. Feldman has stated that "few have doubted the genuineness" of Josephus' reference to Jesus in Antiquities 20, 9, 1 and it is only disputed by a small number of scholars." "An overwhelming majority of New Testament scholars and Near East historians, applying the standard criteria of historical investigation, find that the historicity of Jesus is more probable than not, although they differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the gospels." The evidence is overwhelming...Jesus existed as a real human being. Btw we have no first hand accounts of Alexander The Great, and many many many other famous historical figures. If you think Jesus never existed then you better start rethinking your entire knowledge of antiquity, because more than half of these people would not have existed either if we use David Fitzgerald's "research" methods.

[@jlhaxton]

Ummm NO! I point you to the library to read Dr. Richard Carrier's pier reviewed work, The Historicity of Jesus. Ehrman has great points on showing that the bible is crap and is made up forged crap. But Ehrman refuses to step on the stage with Carrier for a debate. Yes, much Jesus myth stuff is crazy, out in space stuff, but Carrier's Pier reviewed book is great. My question is do people that say Jesus was a historical person believe all the bible says about him or that some dude named Jesus existed at the time? Ehrman's work shows that the bible is in no way a historically sound book. So what is the point?? This character existed or not??? Doesn't matter. He was not what the mythical bible says he was.

[@NoeticInsight]

This has nothing to do with if Jesus was a Messiah or if he healed the sick or anything else. His supernatural stories are impossible to prove and are irrelevant, I'm simply talking about the EXISTENCE of Jesus as a human. There is no debate about this, almost every single historian believes he existed as a human being. You can point me to ONE book, or two books, do that all you want but it's a damn drop in the ocean compared to the vast amounts of scholars who accept that Jesus was a real human on Earth and that he was crucified. People who deny that Jesus existed are as oblivious as people that deny climate change. Ehrman, who tears apart the Bible, still believes Jesus was real...he's a fucking leading historian what makes you think YOU know better than him? He has no bias, he has no reason to favour the existence of Jesus, yet he points out PLENTY of facts that suggest he was indeed real. Also we have non-biblical sources...this has already been established and is well known by anyone that takes history serious. You can cling onto your Richard Carrier work all you want, I'll stick with what is a known fact according to the vast majority of ancient and modern historians.

[@jlhaxton]

Of course you will cling to your outdated "facts." Do you still cling to the flat earth myth? I hope not because new information proved the old facts wrong. And there is NO non-biblical historical facts about Jesus. They have all been shot down. Most of them by Ehrman. And don't be so afraid of facts the way your hero Ehrman is. He will not debate Carrier because he has read Carrier'sbook and knows he has no leg to stand on. As you..I know very little about this other than reading what people say. And opposed to you and Ehrman, I am not afraid to read Carrier who has a pier reviewed book that shoots down the real Jesus. Pier reviewed!! That means Christian historians support or can not deny his findings. Stick to your bible and the lies. Do you believe in the Greek god's or Santa Clause or the easter bunny too.

[@jlhaxton]

John Walker ffrf.org/faq/feeds/item/18412-debunking-the-historical-jesus

[@RonJohn63]

At 50:16, Fitzgerald is blatantly misquoting the slide. "Jesus" does not mean "savior", and it certainly is not a title; it was a *very common* name meaning "*Yahweh is* salvation". OTOH, "Christ" (Messiah/Anointed One -- a reference to the ancient Kings of the Israelites, which is why the Romans would have crucified him) is the *title* given in the text by God.

[@bobover6474]

I know some people that know nothing about the bible or the history of how it was created. All they know is that Jesus offers eternal life. It didn't take a genius to brainwash people when you offer eternal life. It's like offering someone a million bucks. They say they believe when their actually just pretending to believe or attempting to believe.

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

Just hedging their bets.

[@JM-ot8ux]

@@ChileanBydloScum I think someon'e got a weird fetish here, little laddy boy.

[@Peter_Scheen]

Do not forget hell. That prevents them from thinking.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

If Jesus was the son of an all powerful Hebrew god who can accomplish anything he chooses why are there three rival religions competing with one another for members?

[@tonygriffin_]

36:37 Film still from Life of Brian!

[@josephcollins6033]

I LOVE your passion. But, man, you need to SSLLOOWWWWW DOWWWNNNN! You sound literally hysterical which makes you sound less credible. I really like and APPRECIATE your scholarship; I need it to help fight Christians in NASHVILLE!! So, thank you so much!!!

[@57Carlibra]

I really wish you could talk a lot slower, so much information to process! Thank you.

[@Max_Doubt]

A real man who was apotheosized or a god who was humanized? Tough call, but the notion that Jesus never really existed has certainly advanced from a hypothesis to a theory.

[@jeffwells9431]

Serious question: if the early Christian's didnt believe or know of the ressurrection then how to explain Paul talking of the ressurrection?

[@Bluesruse]

The word Paul uses (anastasis), means to "stand/rise up" (from a chair, for example). "The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable" Since all Paul's letters are tampered with, half being total forgeries, it's pretty hard to say for sure, but I'd say Paul is talking about a spiritual ascension.

[@jeffwells9431]

@@Bluesruse hmm interesting. But to thicken the plot. Didnt his brand of judaism believe in a physical resurrection? Was believing this man was resurrected completely separating him from other Jews?

[@Bluesruse]

@@jeffwells9431 Well, where are you getting that? You don't really get that from Paul. The only other 1st century writer would be Josephus, and you don't get that from him either. Josephus does talk about afterlife (in Wars), most notably arguing against suicide, because God would punish the souls of those who would do such a thing, and that "pure souls" would be sent again in "pure bodies". Again, doesn't sound like your earthly body would be resurrected, but that you would have a heavenly body. That's what both Paul and Josephus sound like.

[@jeffwells9431]

@@Bluesruse very true. But that's what I was saying wouldnt Paul's belief in this set him apart from the rest of the jews pretty strongly

[@Bluesruse]

@@jeffwells9431 Set apart from some? Probably. From some others? Probably not so much. It's not like there wasn't a lot of different sects already, with different ideas floating around. And it doesn't seem like Paul's view on this is something radical, why should it be? The radical idea of Paul seems to do more with his mission to the gentiles, and the way he argues against keeping the law. That seems pretty unjewish. But then again, how much of this even is genuine Paul really...

[@bobover6474]

Maybe Jesus existed, maybe he didn't but one thing I can say for sure is that Jesus would have thought the bible, down right silly and disrespecting of what is good and loving and peaceful. It's a very violent, foolish book. God would love everyone and everything good, no mater what country you live in or what belief you have fallen for. Good is good and bad is bad and he or she would not send billions of good people to hell. A Hindu can be just as good as a Christian, etc.

[@fridrichvonahlers8089]

+BOB OVER a typicalstance of a n unhappy beliver- dissapointed by his own religion , he argues with the axioms of his own religion what would....blabla...

[@Reepecheep]

+Leonardo's Truth Speaks of venom, thinks that Christopher Hitchens should rot in hell. What an idiot. "Uh, Atheists are venomous so I hope this guys gets to burn literally forever and ever amen!"

[@Reepecheep]

Leonardo's Truth I'm sure they do, that is not a relevant statement. Only additional showcase of the morally bankrupt standards of religion.

[@Reepecheep]

Leonardo's Truth _"religion of atheism."_ It's not a religion. _"victims of the war mongering anti Islamic fanaticism"_ I'm sure beheading people who don't believe, killing homosexuals, threatening to wipe out whole countries, and oppressing women had nothing to do with that. Use your brain dude. _"It is a major showcase of the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of the religion of atheism."_ Atheism is morally bankrupt, but not for the same reason. Atheism HAS no morals, no dogmas, no beliefs that are associated with it. Sorry, but atheism has no moral stance on anything because the term has nothing to do with morals. I don't see your point.

[@fridrichvonahlers8089]

Idiot Repechep- you are a victim of fundamentalism- Atheism is HUMANISM in first row, and love to MANKIND jn the second.... you only show that you ate week in brains, and strong in false feelings...

[@fsmsakes2429]

You know, believe what he says or not, if you actually take the time to listen to David he knows how to handle an audience, presenting just the right blend of humor and facts to keep people interested. That's especially important in these types of settings, where people are going to five or six lectures/panels/discussions a day, and your presentation is on history, a subject most people find boring and tedious. Keep up the good work. It's going to be a long slog, ferreting out the lies of religion, but it's going to get easier over the next 50 years as the old farts who never got past 6th grade die off, and the kids grow up in an education system that rejects religion. It'll take at least another 50 to run down and reverse the products of creationist home schooling and "Jesus Camp" type brain washing. But, it's a battle worth winning. Religion has had it's day, it has held back human development for long enough. Let it fade into obscurity, a long dead remnant of our savage past, before we knew better.

[@MrYou4ia]

Those are mighty bold statements and claims you've spit out there. Look at my comment above and give answer minus the factless proud assumptions you spew out. Because I can tell you are someone who draws conclusions looking at only one side of a story.

[@fsmsakes2429]

MrYou4ia Funny. Sorry to tell you that I've read the buybull. Twice, in fact. It is nothing more, and nothing less, than a collection of fables.

[@MrYou4ia]

And how do you know this? How do you so boldly say that? Based on what is it fables? And if you are qualified, since you "read it twice", then give an answer to my comments I posted a few days ago. Reply and explain why Isaiah 53 is a "fable". (You do remember what it says right? You read it twice ya know.)

[@MrYou4ia]

Creation proves there is a Creator. Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Those that believe the universe created itself by random chance believe in nonsense and foolishness. Now that Creator would not leave us to figure out who He is or leave us to perish with no purpose or hope. He would want His creation to know Him and love Him as He loves us. It's why He created us. There is much more than just Isaiah 53 you have to reconcile with your unbelief and your lack of seeking Him. As I quoted before, attempt to reconcile all of the O.T. prophecies of Jesus with your doubt. See Daniel 9-24-27, Micah 5:2, Isaiah 9:6, Daniel 2 and Dan. 7. And that's just scratching the surface my unbelieving friend. But I'm not bound to prove anything. God is worthy of us seeking Him with our whole heart. Ask Him to prove Himself to you. Study the scriptures to see if what they say about Him are true. Unless it is that you just don't want to know Him.

[@MrYou4ia]

Oh, you believe in a "creator" as you believe in a creation. You just believe the creator was "random chance"...and based on zero evidence or fact no less. Actually, you simply don't want to know if there is a God... so therefore you don't know Him.

[@communication001]

OK here's a theory and a question. Brief theory first. The turn of the year zero as it is now was a time when two people stirred the Jewish world into massive messianic fever. The leader of the Zealots - resisting the imposition of Roman spiritual superiority onto the temple based religion of Judah - and the 'Great Teacher' of the Essenes. This figure it seems could be clearly linked with evidence to the person who's name has come down to us as John The Baptist. His name implies a wider spread of ideas than just within the Essenes and a greater work than simply leading the Essenes as a group of physical people. In other words he was someone who perhaps instigated baptism and water ritual in Judah as well as there being water cleansing rituals in the community of Cumran above the Red Sea. Hence the name. Two things we know there in black and white: that is on the basis of a connection between a figure explicitly named John The Baptist and a 'great teacher' of a community that has water rituals. (James Tabor has also found water ritual grottos that could be related.) But my question is this. What happens if we try to examine John The Baptist to a similar level to which we are scrutinising Jesus? That has two off shoots. Firstly, what does it tell us about how Jesus mythicism just doesn't stand up in the sense that it collapses under intense scrutiny and we're just placing too much focus on an individual who was a bit like Robin Hood with extra dedication - including the vital redemption of wrong action/sin etc. (In other words if we studied Robin Hood we just wouldn't care after a bit so Jesus as a myth or connected to different real figures etc just isn't giving up any more because we just shouldn't care so much.) And the second part is to genuinely ask what can we surmise about John The Baptist as a name and person etc. Well I would suggest that they might well have given this great teacher a name in the writing that mentions this great teacher if he had had a name at that time. It's a complex question with regards to making such statements. Like 'oh if it was true they would have done this or that'. What we can say clearly is that a vast gap in the evidence is significant. But to say 'if there was a jesus doing all these supernatural things they would have mentioned him' snacks of atheistic agendas to me. As an example I'd say that is. But in this case that's quite a strong example. Whereas by the time we get to Josephus we clearly have a record of a guy called John The Baptist. One might suggest that either John was a common name that was ascribed to him - so that he becomes a half invented figure in that case - or that he was called John but that he only earned a title after it was acknowledged that his teaching constituted a full messianic level engagement rather than him just sharing the water ritual with the world. After all they called him their teacher which implies having new ideas and/or giving sense to concepts out of his own understanding to some extent. As opposed to sharing illucidations based on the bible. One can sow ideas whilst keep one's head beneath the parapet by making it a seemingly mild thing that is apparently only a mere (and unoffensive) repetition of a teaching that is in the bible. (Or other old text.) But the implication is of some fairly grand statements and of significantly becoming a leader. Of putting his head above the parapet, to use that useful phrase. Of sharing significant amounts of quite new ideas. Otherwise how would this great teacher become the person mentioned in Josephus and being this figure called John The Baptist. So to get to a point of some kind of closure, John and the leader of the zealots in my theory set off a time when it seemed normal that there were messianic figures claiming to reach such heights as to be such a big spiritual leader. To appease the Christian evangelist element only one has the doctrine of redemption and such a thing perhaps rightly was taken up as being the icon of a true leader sent by a divine element in human physical existence. But it may have only taken two people - John and the leader of zealots - to set such a time rolling. In terms of what came next - of the three 'Sign Prophets' the leader of the Zealots is considered one of them. The second is a bit like a crazy violent affair. The third is less violent in terms of the attack on the Romans etc. But in terms of the attack that they then experienced in return it's pretty desperate. Then you get Paul with his idea of a son of God - potentially straight out of the book called Eugnostos The Blessed. And then you get James making a scene leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem and Jesus Ben Ananais being this guy who barely says anything. Paul then comes back and turns his guy into Jesus who rose from the dead - by adapting the Jesus Ben Ananais story a tiny bit. And then you get Mark who rights it up using Thomas's gospel (which is synonymous with the so called Q source) and providing these supposed real events in order to finally fully create this character called Jesus. What do you think about my proposal?

[@peterkrueger7841]

"Fitzgerald seems to mention a bit of this, but in the notion that 1st century Hebrews invented a Christ by borrowing from these old Hebrew scriptures. That is preposterous in my mind. And one would actually believe that Jesus Christ is one of many fabricated Christs, but he just happened to fulfill the O.T. scriptures perfectly?? Let's not forget that the Dead Sea Scrolls contained a near perfectly preserved manuscript of The Great Isaiah Scroll which was carbon 14 dated to be at least 150 older than Jesus Christ, i.e. 150 B.C. Again, go look at Isaiah 53 and 9:6 So this and the many other Bible texts found in the D.S.S. have proved the O.T. was not fabricated after the fact of Jesus Christ's time. (Which is what Atheists used to claim prior to 1950 A.D.) People, it would be wise to look at 2 sides of the argument before coming to a conclusion about anything... especially this!" Hint: The NEW testament was written AFTER the OLD testament. ;)

[@MrYou4ia]

Are you implying that because the N.T. was written after the O.T. that therefore the N.T. is fabricated? Or are you saying the N.T. is the fulfillment of the O.T.? Are you insinuating there wasn't a Jesus of Nazareth at all? Or that the Biblical Jesus was loosely based on a failed fake Messiah who lived at that time and place and just happened to fulfill many O.T. prophecies by coinsidence? And if so, that is at best just a wild theory not based on any facts. People/skeptics/"historians" used to say the O.T. Messianic prophecies were written in the 4th or 5th or even the 14th century A.D. after the fact. But those claims have had to be quickly reversed since 1950 and the D.S.S.'s. I noticed Fitzgerald never really touched on the D.S.S.'s which contained O.T. manuscripts like Isaiah from 150 B.C. as well as N.T. manuscripts from the 1st century A.D. (HINT: Isaiah 53 prophecized the messiah was to suffer and die for the sins of many, and that He was/is without sin.) Again, a true seeker of truth/"scientist"/etc., etc. is going to surely look at ALL of the information and both sides of an argument before jumping to conclusions... Unless one just doesn't really want to know the truth... or just sell a book...

[@peterkrueger7841]

MrYou4ia You only have claims of unknown authors that someone fulfilled all those prophecies, thats all. It also doesnt help your case that those authors had an agenda. ;)

[@MrYou4ia]

Oh? And what agenda is that? How is it possible you know there was an agenda and it's goal, when you admitedly don't have any idea who wrote them? And was Isaiah 53 about just "someone"? Ya know, there are a whole lot more prophecies than Isaiah. Hundreds of them that were seemingly fulfilled in the life and death of Jesus Christ (who Fitzgerald says existed albeit "exaggerated") And the Dead Sea Scrolls? They contained 1st century dated N.T. manuscripts too you know... I'd strongly suggest you do an indepth study of O.T. Messianic prophecy and compare them to the evidence that does exist about Jesus Christ. You all are making/embracing a lot of wild assumptions about the N.T. writers (as well as O.T. writers) You had better be darn sure about this "conspiracy theory" you're jumping on.

[@MrYou4ia]

And you only have claims that the "unknown authors" did not indeed witness the Jesus they wrote about or knew his disciples 1st hand. You have no evidence to support this conspiracy theory yet you dogmatically embrace it... ???

[@peterkrueger7841]

MrYou4ia Why should I believe baseless claims by unknown authors who tried to spread their religion? Maybe you should learn how Christianty was created(nicene creed), Btw, do you know that there were dozens of gospels and not only four? ;)

[@meatloafhead]

There are two stories about Constantine’s mother, one we all know she was obsessed with the cross and Jerusalem the other story is she was Jewish married in to the Roman family and brainwashed her son into forced conversion either one can make sense, the 2nd story is quite biblical sending in a shaved beautiful female spy into the enemies camp

[@phantasmo9998]

Everyone coming to a consensus that Jesus was real always seemed like a compromise to me. Glad that bone is being taken away.

[@Hastein45]

phantasmo9998 Though it isn't. The vast majority of experts agree that Jesus exissed, and Fitzgerald is not an expert. He's had his arse raped with lube by Tim O'Neill.

[@phantasmo9998]

Yes, you're probably right. But if you went back in a tardis to see the man outside of the over blown stories, along with a name you wouldn't even recognize, he might as well not exist. Just a crazy desert cult leader loony.

[@Kyrani99]

The existence of Jesus, Mohammad, Krishna, Buddha etc.,etc., should not be an issue as far as belief in God is concerned. It is not dependent on a single word.

[@Roedygr]

Christians claim the bible is inerrant and perfect, composed by a deity. Logically, all it should take is pointing out one tiny error to disabuse them of that notion. Even showing them that almost nothing is true does not deter them.

[@ciprianpopa1503]

I'm surprised that there's no mention of Biggus Dickus. That's should raise some red flags about the quality of these studies.

[@misterx5529]

Jesus is like buddha, a historical figure made god. In other wors : make believe, made up shit, fiction, myth.

[@hicktoni]

Buddha is not a god, not even with a small "g".

[@phildiamond3627]

Heck out Ken Humphries (Jesus never existed) he’s posted some great stuff online.

[@dan4lau]

I've enjoyed Ken's videos, though I wish he would be a little more orderly and comprehensive in his talks. Still I like his straightforward and clear way of speaking. I do sometimes worry that he expresses himself a little too strongly though. It's fine for preaching to the converted or nearly converted, but I think he could put people off first dipping their toes into this particular pool.

[@Man_Lantern_Skateboards]

In the Pauls era there were no doubt many many people who were still alive who saw or would have seen Jesus. Why didn't anyone say either "There was no Jesus that I ever saw " or " I saw him that story is true I was at the wedding party" or something. Theres no evidence either to prove or disprove really from that time

[@Gnomefro]

lesterhalfjr Well, one explanation, from the mythicist perspective, is simply that nobody at the time were arguing for a historical Jesus. This trivially explains why there's no denials of something that's never claimed. The other side of the coin is evidenced from the epistles - they talk about a celestial Jesus who reveals himself to self styled prophets like Paul and through creative reinterpretation of scripture. It's harder to explain on a historical account though - both the theology of the epistles and the lack of corroborating accounts(Hell - *any* early accounts pinning Jesus to history, even from Christians).

[@Man_Lantern_Skateboards]

well, you don't want to ...re marginalize him. he was largely ignored in his own time but was also popular in his own time. A 21 century parallel might be someone like Ron Paul, who drew thousands to his rallies but was largely ignored by the media and other recorders of history. or any "misunderstood in their own time" artist you know Also, where do you start drawing the line for what exists? Did Paul exist? because Paul knew Jesus's brother James and Peter, who he describes interacting with in the letters.

[@gregshelley4831]

lesterhalfjr There are several possibilities 1) They did but these documents were suppressed 2) In Pauls time they still believed in a mythical Jesus, and the historical one didn't develop until decades later. 3) The Jesus cult was very small for decades and most people simply didn't hear of the stories associated with it

[@jamesprice7010]

lesterhalfjr Have you ever heard of Wyatt Earps' Buntline Special? This is a legend that started during the life of Wyatt Earp. It's not true Colt kept and keeps very meticulous records of the guns they produced. No record of 4-5 shooters with 12" barrels made for Ned Buntline to be given to Earp, Bat Masterson, et al. The point? Ask around those who are western fans and see how many believe this myth.

[@Man_Lantern_Skateboards]

what are some documents from that era?

[@timfallon8226]

I see our speaker hasn't investigated vaccines properly.

[@Doriesep6622]

Why does it matter? Consider how hungry we were to hear of how Madoff scammed people. As far as Christianity, I was lied to and scammed, or indoctrinated with ignorance, and I want to know how bad.

[@57Carlibra]

Regarding the Sea of Galilee (Wikipedia): The Sea of Galilee, it is approximately 13 mi long, and 8.1 miles wide.

[@cratorius]

45:20 Why does he quote a letter from John to tell us what Paul says about Jesus? This makes no sense...

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

Christian, right? Be honest, now.

[@knockdownwheel542]

Yeah no shit! Why didn't Jesus write anything if his word was so incredibly important? Being the son of GOD, I find it highly unlikely that he'd be illiterate. Just sayin...

[@Roedygr]

Imagine being an ancient Christian making up a lie about the Sea Of Galilee. Pretty obviously you had never been there. You did not know it was fresh. To you, it was just a dot on a map. You presumed your readers would be equally clueless. They would never have been to Galilee or Timbuktu. You did not need to make your lie plausible.

[@telfordpenfold18]

Do you sing at your gatherings? I go to church so I can sing in community.

[@telfordpenfold18]

Dirk Knight I may have expressed myself badly. I like to sing. They sing at church. I go to church so I can sing. Do I believe it? Not necessarily. If I went to a humanist meeting I would also gladly sing there

[@telfordpenfold18]

Dirk Knight Some people like to sing; some people don’t like to sing.

[@telfordpenfold18]

Dirk Knight He didn’t, silly. The fact that I sing, and the fact that some people say Jesus died, are two different facts. A does not always cause B

[@munnypoltric]

There's one thing I'm pretty certain of. There were dusty people walking around in that neck of the woods 2000 years ago. There were some humans. At least humans aren't a myth. Maybe there were some nice humans that some people liked too. Could of been some handsome dudes with beards and some caring beautiful mums. Probably some people got murdered back then too - when they didn't really deserve murder, in our humble opinion. Could of been olives, i don't know. Maybe sheep.

[@susantocp]

Thank you for sharing this video. This helps me a lot.

[@offthegrid-o1j]

wondering what will he say bout mohammad...???

[@davidvitrogen4319]

inirab rub My bet is also a myth.

[@offthegrid-o1j]

david are you gay?

[@MrYou4ia]

The enormous thing that Mr. Fitzgerald, and many others, is missing is that the Christ, or Messiah, was prophecized for thousands of years in the Old Testament Hebrew scriptures and in great detail. Such as in Isaiah 53 (sinless Messiah would suffer and die for the sins of many) and also see Is. 9:6. Also see Micah 5:2 which prophecied where the Christ was to be born- in Bethlehem. And Daniel 9:24-27 prophecies of the time of the Messiah's death (using the 1 day in prophetic/vision time = 1 year in actual time as is in Numbers 14:34, Ezek 4;4-5). In fact there are many, many similar prophecies in the O.T. that this Jesus of Nazereth seemed to fulfill perfectly. The O.T. feasts and sacrafices have many symbols that pointed to Jesus. These prophecies were written throughout a time span of at least a thousand years before Jesus Christ by different prophets of the Hebrew God. Fitzgerald seems to mention a bit of this, but in the notion that 1st century Hebrews invented a Christ by borrowing from these old Hebrew scriptures. That is preposterous in my mind. And one would actually believe that Jesus Christ is one of many fabricated Christs, but he just happened to fulfill the O.T. scriptures perfectly?? Let's not forget that the Dead Sea Scrolls contained a near perfectly preserved manuscript of The Great Isaiah Scroll which was carbon 14 dated to be at least 150 older than Jesus Christ, i.e. 150 B.C. Again, go look at Isaiah 53 and 9:6 So this and the many other Bible texts found in the D.S.S. have proved the O.T. was not fabricated after the fact of Jesus Christ's time. (Which is what Atheists used to claim prior to 1950 A.D.) People, it would be wise to look at 2 sides of the argument before coming to a conclusion about anything... especially this!

[@davidlevy4291]

I know a lot of jews who would have a lot to say about this whole post

[@MrYou4ia]

David Levy You know us? ?? Was there something more you were going to say there? You know what about us? You know us? ??

[@AntisocialAtheist1]

I bet it would be fun to just hang out with Fitzgerald.

[@danderran]

Most mainstream scholars worth their salt accept the historicity of Jesus. To all mythicists who sufficiently understand the methods historians use, please see: www.bethinking.org/jesus/did-jesus-exist www.bethinking.org/is-the-bible-reliable/recent-perspectives-on-the-reliability-of-the-gospels David is a fringe, conspiracy theorist and is neither a scholar, nor a historian. He does point out some interesting discrepancies in the NT, but overall, the general, scholarly perspective is that Jesus did exist and this consensus is becoming more and more confirmed with time, as better historical research tools are developed.

[@fridrichvonahlers8089]

Unfortunately even in our time there are people, who need to RITUALISE their lives and dont think about the context- and those, who are profiting from neofundamentalism any art- are misusing this fact.

[@Scullans]

Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lord. He is all powerful and has supernaturally delivered me from demons, healed my physical disease and stopped my drug addictions and depression and anxiety! Only he can do such an amazing thing!! Praise God! He is everything good and the only true hope for us!

[@Scullans]

Jake D why would He have to do that to prove His ability? Of course He can, Hes raises people from the dead! Just because you’ve never seen it happen doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened... I had super amazing miracles that are supernatural happen to me in my life and it’s overwhelming. You are shut out from the presence of God as a sinner but Jesus died on the cross for your forgiveness to reconcile you back to God in spirit. You have to repent of your sinning and believe truly in Jesus. Start reading the Bible man it will change your life if you have faith in Him.

[@JM-ot8ux]

@@Scullans I'm so sick of hysterical spew-spouting nutbag Christers.

[@Scullans]

@@JM-ot8ux then you will regret it all in hell forever

[@JM-ot8ux]

Another VOODOO CHRISTER. Spirits and demons and SHIT. This is the result of Western missionaries flavoring native animistic religions with Christer shit. PLUS Christer shit seems to grease the way to a Western lifestyle like no other religions can!

[@nadiraslam5982]

You realize you sound nuts right?

[@17jindan]

...absolutely Great!!!

[@LogosTheos]

Bart Ehrman's book makes Fitzgerald's "nailed" look like trash. In terms of argumentation and scholarship they are incomparable.

[@Hastein45]

LogosTheos Tim O'Neill thrashed Fitzsgerald.

[@tomasneel1980]

humbly, i use to think this way once, but i learned for myself the Savior is real, lives, and is the Son of the Most High. I admonish you to read about the Great Apostacy in the Book of Mormon . You will learn the truth, best wishes

[@Reece-u3f]

The Book of Mormon was written 18 months after Joseph smith was charged with fraud. Why would anyone believe a single word inside of it.

[@Iamjamessmith1]

Why not? Your claim that Jesus "Could not have been them all" (prophet, king, deliverer, god....and more). True or not, stating why it is impossible would help that part of the presentation.

[@differous01]

45:36 "...he was born at 666 Manger Street in Bethlehem, and he had 12 followers, and Mary and Joseph, and Judas betrayed him. We get nothing like that from Paul." So Paul's letters must have been circulating prior to the writing of the Gospels, or else Paul selected his tales to accord with a different agenda; he was not concerned with "what would Jesus do?" (as a living person) only with soteriology. The oldest versions of the gospels originally ended at the empty tomb.The mystery of not knowing if their friend was dead was replaced by the wish that he not be. Mystery became folk tale, tale became dogma. And much that once was is now lost, for none now live who remember it. Now in these books lay the power to govern each mystery faith, but they were all of them deceived. A council gathered the books into one Book, and through this book they poured their will to dominate all life: One Book to rule them all.

[@micmacnz]

I have heard the arguments, and I think it is certainly plausible to think JC was a myth, or a composite figure, and that such a figure fits what happened in the 1-3 century and fixes some weird language in the Pauline Epistles and the Gospels. Certainly proving he did exist seems like an impossible task. Not a big deal for an Atheist like me, but a bit of an issue for a literal Christian.

[@mbrowshan]

All Gods and Devils are metaphorical archetypes that exist only in our minds..(Thanks Carl Jung) ..humanity seems to have the need for heroes and villains....we see it in our modern day cultures via figures like Superman.....Batman...etc....there is always a hero and his nemesis....and it all makes for great heroic tales just as Joseph Campbell once spoke of....

[@Meine.Postma]

This is very badly filmed; just show the slides, not the talking head. It gets better during the lecture.

[@Harvindeful]

Yeah, Fitzgerald really needs to take a tranquilizer before his presentations, to help control the feeling of panic we get from him. What he has to say would be so much more effective if he would just clam down.

[@larrywright885]

David Gibbs EXACTLY.

[@jamesprice7010]

David Gibbs He has a lot to say and a short time to get it said. He is also passionate about the subject. He also seems to have a profusion of valid points. What I like is that he doesn't ummm, erm ,"you know what I mean?" uuumm, and so forth.

[@baronlepelaervanstokkem8854]

Are you always that nervous, Fitz?

[@travvypoo]

Baron Lepelaer van Stokkem lets see you speak in public.

[@Sammy_shammy24]

That's another thing, harod supposedly killed all the jewish baby boys...but jesus got away! Because, ofc, he was far more important than the literal hundreds of others babies supposed to have been slaughtered

[@crystalheart9]

Very interesting talk, thank you.

[@fridrichvonahlers8089]

Bravo!!!

[@BumgarnerLarry]

Just wondering... if this guy thinks there is a God?

[@HoTrEtArDeDcHiXx]

The unattractive homosexual overlooks the elephant in the room: the motivation to erase Christ from history. After all, how could an individual, who did not exist, effectively overthrow the Roman empire, posthumously?

[@jesusdeity2010]

Glorious truth about Jesus. What lots of people (even pastors) don't (yet) understand. God created us according to His own image and likeness. Godly. Mankind/the first Adam fell. The image of God in man got lost. That's why there is all this predicament on earth (selfishness, greed, lust, wars, sicknesses, death, etc). We are all born into that mess. For the fall of man a perfect atoning sacrifice had to be made.... that is what God did in Christ. With His own once and for all perefect sacrifice, He paid the debt for the fall of man for us, so we can be indwelled by His Spirit again and finally receive the divine life of the ages back, the first Adam let got of in the fall of man. An amazing act of grace and love by our creator. That is what you see happening in Christ's first disciples. They too healed all and walked in unselfish love. And yes.... that is still avaible today. The holy blood is in place, the Holy Spirit is here to give us understanding, power and transform us back to origin. Not to be debated about, but to be embraced and be-come. So: The Kingdom of God already came. Through Christ, in Spiritform, in those that understand. Hence the divine healing miracles we experience. God manifested in Christ to give us back the divine life mankind lost in the fall of Adam. Christ, the exact image of the invisible God. The image we were created after in Gen 1. The image we lost in the fall of man. The image that can be freely restored by Christ's blood and Holy Spirit working IN us. What a plan. What a solution. What a love. What a God. Jesus is amazing. It is the ultimate conclusion of the word and plan of God. God came full circle. He Himself stooped down from glory to restore us back to original created value: Christlikeness. Walking in divine healing power and unselfish love. Jesus, born of the Spirit of God, filled with the spirit of God. The "Son" of God, the incarnated word, God in the flesh. For three years He healed all, raised the dead, casted out demons, controlled nature, spoke pure divine truth. He said: "Follow Me. If you see Me, you see the Father. The Father and I are one. The glory I have IN My Father, I give to you. It pleases the Father to give you His Kingdom/Holy Spirit/divine nature. I will send Holy Spirit, the same as Me, He will be IN you, guide you into truth and give you explosive power. The same miracles i do, you will do too, because you will understand that the Father is IN Me and I am IN you. Freely I give you My Kingdom/Holy Spirit/divine nature, heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons, freely I give, freely share" Etc, etc, etc. I have experienced thousands of beautifull healing miracles through the power of Holy Spirit IN me already. Broken bones, cancers, covid, all kinds of infirmities healed in seconds. Demons manifesting and casted out by a simple "get out, in Jesus name". Jesus. De name above all names. In Him all power and wisdom is sourced and.... He calls us one with Him. God in man and man in God again. C'mon Jesus!! So.... again: God stooped down IN Christ to restore us back to Gen 1:27 were He said: "Let us make man according to our image and likeness and let them have authority.....": walk as Christ. Christ, the exact image of the invisible God. The image we were created after and being restored to by His atoning blood for the fall of man and indwelling Holy Spirit. You are free to receive this original divine life of the ages by Holy Spirit of Christ/God. Ask Him to guide you into truth. Read the Gospel of John and fall in love with your creator. You are not made for the fall of man and its effects, but for the image/glory of God and to walk like Christ. Holy Spirit is the guide and transforming power that will get you there. Amazing grace. A big leap in faith can be made when we start realizing we are already IN Christ, IN the last Adam. Free from the fall! Loved! Growing into awareness of our new (yet old) godly identity. Changing by Holy Spirit. The most fullfilled life ever. Paul healed all on Malta. He understood and wrote: "As in the first Adam ALL died (lost the divine nature), so also ALL were made alive IN Christ to walk in Zoë (= divine life) again". "IN Christ (the last Adam) we are co-cruisified (dead to the fall and its effects), co-raised (justified/made righteousness, holy, blameless, above reproach), co-seated (one with Him)" "The fullness of deity dwells in Christ and YOU HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETE IN HIM, who is the head of every principality and power". So.... thank you Jesus! Thank you for redeeming me from the fall of man. Thank you for your Holy Spirit that makes this new (yet old) divine life come alive in me. You are amazing! In the shadow of Peter the sick healed... He understood too and wrote: "By Gods power (Holy Spirit) and knowing Christ, we have become partakers of the divine nature and have escaped the fall of man". The divine life of the ages has been returned to us by Jesus once and for all perfect atoning sacrifice for the debt of the fall of man and His indwelling Holy Spirit in us. Jesus/God is amazing!!! Ask Him to give you revelation and change you to the way it was before the fall of man: Christlikeness. He will do so. For it is written: "the Spirit brings forth after His own kind". "I have come to give you Zoë (divine life) in abundance...."

[@szgyrgy]

if you accept 99.99% of Bart Ehrman work you should be honest enough to entertain the idea of the rest 0,01%

[@jayd4ever]

he likes bart ehrman because he doesn't believe in Christianity like him but disagree him when he says jesus existed it shows how far atheists will go to try to disprove god and religion

[@joeyjojojunior1794]

1:06:06 Tom Brokaw appears

[@munnypoltric]

Jesus is a real word. I just wrote it. Don't make me doubt that, I'll go insane

[@jon1rene]

Camera man needs to be saved

[@soundboy57]

As an agnostic, I already knew about much of this, from years of reading, including the Jesus Seminar books, etc. As a moderate politically, it is very striking how Christianity is so gleefully torn apart and mocked and laughed at, throughout, and by the far left in this country, yet Islam is somehow respected. When you do a mockery of Islam with the same fervor and snark that you heap on Christianity and Mormons, I will respect your scholarship a bit more. Bart Ehrman is in the same boat (actually joking about the Tea Party, etc). NPR eats this stuff up...yet I don't hear much about Islam or other religions, which are just as mythical and unbelievable. Why is that? Are you scared of Islamists, or it just doesn't fit the overall leftist narrative of "stupid right wing Christians" that is so popular these days? For the record, I agree with much of what is said here...but why is it all coming from leftists politically? That, disappoints me. There is also a lot of good argument from the other side, which is also done in a much more respectful manner, by people who are just as educated and intelligent, believe it or not.. Meanwhile, let us know when that book of snark on Islam and a good trashing of Muhammad is coming out.. It should be just as entertaining, no?

[@xKoeix]

It's easier to go after Christianity that dosen't send you death threats like Islamists and JIhadists, but instead defer to debates and conversations why they believe in Christ. Many so called atheist hate biblical morality that condemn their personal lifestyle, e.g. watching porn, adultery, homosexuality and seeking life of sexual self-degradation, pleasure pursuit of life which the Western World had taken granted for, Judeo-Christian culture of today's western liberty and freedom. Irony, once atheist took apart christianity, what is there to offer? Have they thought of the Islamic Caliphate from the middle east who would come after the West after the secular moral vacumm damage been done?

[@Maximara]

I commented on the historical jesus thread on Randi's international skeptics forum that the real Pilate seems to have a personality akin to the Incredible Hulk ie 'Puny subjects annoy Pilate. Pilate' Roman armies SMASH!'

[@Scullans]

Just a bunch of godless sinners trying to soothe their corrupted conscience in any way they can. So sad. Praise God that they will all find out in the end! Hopefully they will humble themselves and repent so they don’t burn forever in hell 😔

[@Doriesep6622]

Yeah, bring out that hell fire card you moronic coward. And if so, you are going to be loving every minute of it. You are like those medieval people who thought God was going to give them a window to look at the people suffering in hell. YOU are ordinary evil. YOU are not loving and good. YOU are a frightened brain washed coward.

[@JM-ot8ux]

@@Doriesep6622 Christians are liars. If you want to know who the "father of lies" is, it's Yahweh.

[@thomasstanford9451]

Look at the work by Neville Goddard...

[@SiggiNebel]

Even though I agree with most of Fitzgerald's arguments, his pleading doesn't convince me, which seems to me arbitrary at crucial points. Sceptics must not just replace dogmatic by "sceptical" biases. It's a field where certainty is hard to obtain, but I think that the existence of some historical Jesus is more likely. The gospels may well be full of myth and allegorism and they may not provide any reliable facts of the life of such a historical Jesus. But if he didn't exist at all, why somebody would have made him up out of thin air, and for which purpose? And if the gospels were merely meant as allegories, which sense had such allegories? It seems to more likely that their was a charismatic preacher called Jesus/Joshua who was at odds with the judeo-roman political system of his time, like in fact many Jews, had gained a number of followers and might very well eventually have been crucified. It didn't take much under Pilate, and this Jesus may have been ringleader of a of riot in the temple, which would have challenged not only Jewish, but also Roman authorities. He may have won a number followers and after his death legends were spun around him, beginning with the vanishing of his body after his death, and where handed down to the next generation etc. which found it hard to believe any longer that a messiah would come in glory and power to smite the foes of Israel. Finally an ambitious man called Saulus/Paulus adopted this this variant of judaism and had the idea to transform it into a brand new religion. It don't claim this as proven, but it sounds quite possible and fits better to the evidence we actually have than the total denying of Jesus' historical existence. Fitzgerald presents the problem of the "testamonium Flavianum" by declaring the opinion that it may not be a complete forgery as ridiculous, but he omits - or ignores - important arguments. For examples that there were two Christian medieval authos (Agapios von Hierapolis and Michael the Syrian) who cited Josephus book XVIII 3,3 (translated into Arabic and Syrenic,respectively), but there the only claim is that some people believed Jesus to be the messiah. This gives evidence that there must have been manuscripts of Josephus' book where Jesus was mentioned without forged Christian insertions. And if the second rather casual mentioning of Jesus in book XX, 9.1 is forged, why was the Christian forger so shy only to talk of Jacobus as brother of the "so-called Christ" (= messiah)? To compare the written evidence of Caesar with that of Jesus is rather absurd. Whereas Cesar was a most ruler of a vast empire, Jesus in Roman eyes he was a most marginal trouble-maker somewhere in the Near East and only until a suspicious sect turned up in Rome they took some interest in him, but even then very sparsely for a long time.

[@nadiraslam5982]

Read his book "Nailed".

[@chrisnamaste3572]

The PowerPoint!!!!

[@Pablo113]

Faith = INDOCTRINATION

[@munnypoltric]

why do you have to yell, and talk in such a rush

[@Doriesep6622]

He is excited by what he does. Unlike the majority of people who walk around half dead.

[@JM-ot8ux]

He's got nothing on Christer preachers.

[@davidgibbs7573]

David Fitzgerald's lectures contain many interesting facts but he is so hysterical and uncontrolled in his presentation that the impact of what he is saying is often lost. He is more effective as an author than as a speaker.

[@pwabd2784]

Just because you have trouble following along doesn't mean the rest of us do.

[@davidgibbs7573]

@@pwabd2784 Just because you like Fitzgerald's presentation doesn't mean that the rest of us "do."

[@WinStunSmith]

The “Life of Brian” was more believable than the Bible.

[@munnypoltric]

Yay! Jesus wasn't a real guy. Hallelujah

[@Pablo113]

"I am Religious" is CODE for "I am a TRIBAL DING a LING!"

[@marwanzyafi]

Why Idolatress of Christianity. Jesus never existed. in fact Paul the Jew falsify the real call by substitute "Prophet Yesa the messiah" by a false Jesus call & idols worship. Worship idols cannot be a "world of Divinity". Muslim.

[@rsr789]

+Marwan Yafi Um, please try using complete sentences, thanks.

[@jayd4ever]

are you muslim

[@za8002fsr]

Gold

[@leonh6836]

The FBI said he couldn't catch what they eyes can't see glad I am a sun worshipper

[@sonofperdition1719]

blessed are the meek

[@surfk9836]

Yes a great quote. It can also be found in ancient India, ancient Mesopotamia and from the Greek philosophers , sometimes hundreds of years before the bible.

[@sonofperdition1719]

Mockery/mimicry..duh🙄

[@sonofperdition1719]

Nice try kid

[@sonofperdition1719]

They having sight couldnt see and they having heard truth and prophecy couldnt understand..id say read the bible again but you may have read it 500 times by now and not get lights spirit/truth aka love..i am cursed me with remorse..so i pity fool$ who deny whats coming soon too rule,, i dont envy fool$, but i cant help but envy the meeknessthats coming to be the mountain that kersplats iniquity in his kingdom..amen..fucked are the tyrannical unrellenting, unrepentant idiot$..but blessed are the merciful.. truth..its so easy.. if you use your God given senses to witness and obey the charity of truth//life/lord/kingdom come..then your prayer to see will come..too easy.. basically just be gratefull to lay with the lamb..master rules..youl see..but whether youll understand wtf is actually happening is debatable🤔..the horsemen are chompin at the bit my bro$ & ho$..jus sayin, be the light/truth/spirit of the kingdom..or fuck off and burn..with the unrepentant, unrellenting, proud pimp$ & ho$ & judge$(politician$ and voter$($lave$ of babylon(mortality n ignorance aka $in continually aka mockery and mimicry best understood as deception aka babylon the $oul fucking tinctured whore of iniquity and his pet$).

[@IceKnight366]

It's sad that people just eat this stuff up. But then again, they do so because they are eager. There's just some many examples of this guy contradicting himself it's embarrassing. For example, he's claiming that Jesus never existed (or that there's no good reason to think he existed if I'm more charitable to him). And YET, he lists several individuals who were thought to be the Messiah during Jesus day (Simon of Peraea, Judas of Galilee, John the Baptist, etc...). But wait just a second, how does he know that?! He knows that because it's historically documented! But they far less attested than Jesus! But somehow we should believe this to be true but not that Jesus existed when there's mountains of more evidence for the latter? Shameful.

[@kiljoy5223]

You mean at 20:50? Yes, that's interesting, he seems to think they were much less interesting but better corroborated. I suppose it's mainly a matter of 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'... however, if you're so sure you know better perhaps you could challenge Richard Carrier, who is probably more influential, on his own blog.

[@IceKnight366]

Kiljoy Yeah, but they aren't better corroborated, not even close... Also there's two things wrong with Hume's extraordinary evidence argument. 1) It's false. Hume didn't have the highly developed probability calculus in his day and so we know that claim to be false. 2) The claim that Jesus existed is about as far from extraordinary as you can possibility get. It's an extremely ordinary claim, and so just doesn't apply. Yes, I've read a bit of Richard Carriers stuff. I thought both his debates with Dr. William Lane Craig were quite telling of his shortcomings. I'd highly recommend them!

[@kiljoy5223]

Well, you won't be surprised to know that I don't find your response very compelling and not particularly honest either.

[@IceKnight366]

Kiljoy No, I'm not surprised that you don't find my response compelling. But I am a bit surprised that you think you're in a position to say that I'm being dishonest without knowing a single thing about me. But maybe I shouldn't be surprised at that either. That's a fairly typical atheist response - rather than focus on the facts and the argument, you focus on attacking the person. It's a great way to put a stop to the conversation.

[@kiljoy5223]

Though I'm not personally going to get bogged down in this 'conversation', as with I never have done re any subject (online anyway) but you can be pretty sure the conversation more generally will only intensify. I can't paste links in a youtube reply using this mobile device so I'm going to try and post some links in a new comment; if you're interested. Basically they're wikipedia entries on the likes of Simon of Paraea etc but also a blog discussion where someone, maybe a lot like you in fact (since you're so keen on facts), challenges Carrier on similar points.

[@livedreamincolor]

When I studied history at a "secular" university, modern Chrinstianity was referred to as "Pauline Christianity". I think that makes more sense bc the vast majority of Christian doctrine derives from the Pauline "Letters" much more than the narrative "gospells". And...I know I'm gonna pay for this...but if PAUL was an actual personage, I think he was packing some pretty dark baggage even after the road incident.

[@Doriesep6622]

Marcion...

[@zytigon]

Good points thanks

[@rationalagenda7083]

whenever I am tempted to take mythicism seriously, I listen to Fitzgerald and I'm over it. I dont find the idea completely implausible, but its too much working from a conclusion back - everything rationalists are supposed not to do.

[@Discern4]

interesting comment (in a good way).

[@MichaelChaseWalkermchasewalker]

Why not do what any truly rational person would do? Instead of relying on someone else, absorb the information, do the comparative research, investigate. deduct and decide for yourself? There are many corroborating scholars, historians and evidences out there. This is just one piece of the puzzle, but you're going to have to work the other pieces yourself.

[@rationalagenda7083]

you dont say

[@MichaelChaseWalkermchasewalker]

You're the one who said "whenever I am tempted... I listen to Fitzgerald and I'm over it." So why limit yourself to Fitzgerald or to simply working backwards? There are plenty of other scholars and texts that work forward from Paleolithic times to the development of Christianity.

[@rationalagenda7083]

oh stoip being a patronising arse - I am well aware of what other scholars have to say. It was a flippant comment - I thought that was obvious

[@peacecraft3449]

This is all garbage. Like I'm sorry but I would not even know where to start. "Storms didn't happen in that region" WHAT?!

[@larrywright885]

This guy is impossible to lisen to. It would be better to read his books and forgo his frantic exclamations.