High Quality Raw Luftwaffe Gun Camera vs USAAF B-17 Flying Fortresses and B-24 Liberators

Many of these engagements will not be new, however this is the highest quality copy I've ever seen and represents the raw footage rather than segments clipped from newsreels.
0:00 A well known engagement of a B-17 Flying Fortress partly published in Die Deutsche Wochenschau in March 1944, however what was not shown in the newsreel was that the aircraft was in formation when it first came under attack, and it is seen climbing away from its fellow bombers, a maneuver that is not tactically sound as it would bleed off vital airspeed as well as leaving the relative safety of the interlocking fire from the "combat box" formation. One can therefore surmise that either the flight crew was incapacitated or the controls were damaged. The attacking fighter, likely a Messerschmitt Bf 110, takes advantage of the situation and lands multiple cannon hits on the fuselage and center section, with parts of the disintegrating aircraft structure flying towards it. A substantial fragment barely misses the camera, although it might still have struck the attacking plane. It was not unheard of for the latter to be brought down by debris from its quarry when attacks were pressed home too closely.
0:15 B-24 Liberator under fire with the main bomber formation visible in the distance. Luftwaffe fighters would concentrate a lot of effort on separating aircraft from their formation so they could more easily be finished off. The difficulty of achieving this feat was reflected in the simple separation of a B-17 or B-24 counting as twice as valuable as actually shooting down a single-engined aircraft in the Luftwaffe's point system by which decorations were awarded.
0:26 B-17 with its port wing already on fire engaged at relatively long range. Small black puffs of smoke are visible, these are cannon shells that missed their target and self-destructed. The bomber pitches up as the clip cuts, likely the prelude to a stall and fatal dive.
1:43 B-24 straggler hit at long range, as the attacking aircraft turns away briefly it appears the crew might be bailing out.
2:32 B-24 in formation singled out at long range, the effects of heavy cannon fire is illustrated by the clouds of debris coming off the bomber's structure, which was the desired effect of high capacity "minengeschoss" shells. During the engagement, the B-24 to the top right of the targeted aircraft dumps its bomb load, possibly an emergency jettison as the #1 engine appears to be damaged.
3:16 Gun cameras could be operated independently of the guns and this B-17 going down in flames is a good example
3:24 B-17 in formation with bomb bay doors open taking fire
3:32 Another well known engagement featuring a B-17 that was first featured in a US newsreel filmed from another B-17 as it was falling out of formation with a damaged tail. The wing marking suggests it was a 351st Bomb Group aircraft.
3:44 Frontal attack of a formation of B-17s as explosions burst around the aircraft, the shape of which suggests they are BR 21 rockets rather than flak, followed by another well known B-24 frontal interception by a Fw 190 with concentrated fire around the flight deck.
3:55 Another partly known B-17 clip where a man appears to fall or bail out of the ball turret, in this extended segment we can see what looks like a previous bailout, as well as smoke from the tail gun suggesting return fire.
4:31 B-17 with bomb bay doors open and apparent damage to the vertical tail hit at close range, the top turret initially points at 9 o'clock then swings around to track the fighter but there is no evidence of return fire.
4:42 Probably the best known B-17G interception by a Bf 110 G-2. The latter fires an ineffective initial burst with insufficient deflection while smoke can be seen coming from the bomber's ventral and tail turrets as the gunners return fire, and the main formation is visible in the distance.
5:03 As the 110 settles on the B-17's six, the tail gunner continues to return fire, at which point the 110 pilot also pulls the trigger and starts landing concentrated hits on the B-17 with debris flying off. There is a good number of strikes around the tail gun position but it still appears to fire briefly, then falls silent after a couple of further cannon shell impacts.
5:37 Cannon fire impacts around #3 engine then a shell appears to knock a panel off the ventral ball turret, that by now is seen pointing straight down. This is the position it would need to be in for the gunner to enter the fuselage. The 110 continues to pour in fire at point blank range and as it closes in the damage to the B-17 becomes more apparent, the structure is riddled with holes, fabric covered control surfaces in tatters and the tail gunner's bullet resistant window is smashed. The waist guns hang upwards as they would if no one was holding them, one can only imagine the carnage inside.
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[@craigowens4629]

These WWII gun cameras are a lot better than what we have filming UFO's 80 years later. Thanks for posting!

[@adamlunn3071]

And Bigfoot.

[@hux2000]

That's because UFOs don't exist.

[@michaeltaylors2456]

That ought to tell us something.

[@widehotep9257]

There are ten- of-millions of security cameras and dash cams recording 24/7, but still no Bigfoot or little green men pictures.

[@onceuponatimeonearth]

I assume you're joking but in case someone actually tinfoil hats about this, military footage is often captured zoomed in for many miles, recording targets not even visible to the naked eye, and footage is nearly always released in low resolution to obfuscate true military equipment capability from rival nations.

[@neilaldenarmstrong9806]

My dad was 19 years old in 1943 when he was a nose gunner in a B-24J. His bomber was shot down 3 times during his service and he was one of the lucky ones that survived. I can't imagine what it felt like to sit in that little turret and see the muzzle flashes of the cannons of the Messerschmidt coming straight towards him.

[@okapmeinkap7311]

If you can elaborate shot down 3x and survived.

[@bluskytoo]

my dad was a navigator in the 455th BG , B-24s, he seldom talked of the bad stuff, but told me about a mission where the pilots head was laying on the throttles and the co-pilot was almost dead, the flight engineer was wrestling the headless body that was thrashing around spraying blood. He was the oldest on the crew at 24. He said of that mission only 3 of ten survived.

[@GaryBlake-ij1zt]

Flying coffins

[@skussy69]

That head on burst at 3:52 is bonkers. Cant imagine being in the cockpit

[@mattl3729]

They probably wouldn't even have known what happened. It's chilling to see and understand what it means- just like hits on the tail gunner's position in many clips.

[@j___mmdcclxxvi2125]

He gotta snoot full on that one...

[@kfcinafrica2111]

I was just thinking that! That plane had to go down! Those poor pilots got obliterated!

[@gordonj498]

Yea that clip was truly shocking.

[@shannonmonroe5873]

I remember watching some of these as a young kid on TV. and asking why are the guys in the turrets not firing back??? My brothers friends dad said because they are dead. I didn't know but my brother told me later his dad was a pilot in a B-29 bomber during WW2 and he best friend co-pilot took a 20mm round to his head and it exploded. He had to fly back with parts of his skull, brains and teeth all over the instrument panel....

[@coldbliss5392]

The 5:37 clip was gruesome. Looks like the Messerschmidt scored direct hits on the tail and low ball turret gunners. The tail gunner glass was completely shattered and I can only image the carnage inside behind the window. Once those positions were neutralized, the Luftwaffe pilot was confident enough to slow down and take more measured shots at closer range.

[@pelleban]

It's a bf110 attacking, there is an ai enhanced version of this attack that is pretty well spread, check it out.

[@ralphscholer7345]

My grandpa was a LUFTWAFFE - Fighter Pilot and here I can see what he often told me !! Sometimes you fire your whole 20 mm ammo into the B-17 or the B-24 ,but it's still moving ahead !! It was not so easy ,to shot down the U.S. HEAVY'S. Later on with the 30 mm Mk- 108 cannon there was more dammage. Grandpa flew's an FW-190 A5. He died in2020 !

[@matydrum]

Woaw! that's incredible! My grand mother (I'm french) had to go to school under a fake name with fake papers, living in a barn for several months at at that same time, because her father was an early resistant, who was later awarded the croix de guerre with palm and the médaille de la résistance, and was wanted by the gestapo who had identifed him (he lost his house, car and job going in clandestinity after he was identifed, had to leave everything behind). But I have nothing against luftwaffe personal, they even often rebel against the regime, like Joachim Marseille who was known to despise the nazi parti. I would have loved to meet your grand dad a,d have a caht with him, he must have been one of a kind! By the way my great grand father, I didnt have the chance to know him, but I've been told that even if he couldn't sit with a door in his back because he got so fixated on always looking for an escape as the gestapo or french milicia could show up at any moment, he always advocated for the rebuild of the germano-french friendship. He was all in for a untited europe bound in brotherhood and to move on from the old grudges from which nothing good could ever come out. The fw-190 A was a hell of an aircraft, love flying it in DCS! Greetings monsieur!

[@matydrum]

Did you Grandpa managed to get any confirmed abshuss in the chaos? Do you kow where he was stationed and from when and where to when and where?

[@ralphscholer7345]

@@matydrum Grandpa was in II Gruppe JAGDGESCHWADER 26 stationed in NORDHORN,NORTHERN GERMANY ! Later,on march 26 2024

[@ralphscholer7345]

@@matydrum Sorry, I made a mistake ! My Grandpa was stationed in NORDHORN,NORTHERN GERMANY ! Later on,at march 26,1945 the JAGDGESCHWADER 26 was moving to CELLE, NORTHERN GERMANY. He was in the II GRUPPE, Equipment with FW-190 A and some Fw-190 D 9 "Longnose " . Granpa this Time was only 19 years old ,and he only " shredderd" two B -17 and one B- 24,but there was no HERAUSSCHUSS,or an ABSCHUSS ! Mostly he was chased by the enormus numbers of the P -47 or the P- 51 U.S.FIGHTERS ! Grandpa finished war with an . 50 cal bullets losing left Arm and without fuel for the Planes

[@user-gr4dj8mf5u]

@@ralphscholer7345 Дуже шкода, що твій дідусь не закінчив війну з кулею у скроні значно раніше.

[@gunner17470]

powerful images - thank you for sourcing and sharing

[@92naz32]

This is some of the most terrifying German gun camera footage I've ever seen.

[@mirrorblue100]

Looked like that last fighter was going to board the B-17.

[@hw97karbine]

The last segment is particularly harrowing, not least because of the evidence that none of the defensive guns on the B-17G are manned.

[@dave.of.the.forrest]

@@hw97karbine so many hits on that thing, probably everyone aft of the cockpit was dead or wounded. RIP guys.

[@trickolas78]

Are you someone i should care about?

[@foenikxsfirebird3067]

Surely your 1st one....there are yet more horryfieing

[@garyraines7511]

As an old follower of JG 301 Trivia, I will share the following mit alles meinen Kameraden:: the VON VORNE Angriff (Attack) is the feared HEAD-ON approach....the Aim point is the Pilot and Co-Pilot Compartment......the VON QUERAB is a more Curving Approach from the Side......The VON HINTEN is the Classic Rear Attack; the Tail Gunner is Often Neutralized, then the in-board engine is Fired..... the ME or FW 20 mm Rounds bring the Fire Back to the Oil & Gas Pipe-chase Eventually Destroying the Wing Spar. I kept placing these observations in another Vid, but the Krautenese Jackwadder running that show kept cancelling them out....but this is what he Bomber crews were up against. gl

[@kaptainkaos1202]

I was a US Navy P-3 Aircrewman. We were trained that if there was an uncontrolled engine fire we were to prepare to bail out. Within a very short amount of time a wing fire will weaken the wing spar so all we could do was jump. No one that I know of HAD to bail out of a P-3 but I heard that SEALS dropped for training said it was a very violent egress to dirty air around the main cabin door,

[@garyraines7511]

@@kaptainkaos1202 Jawohl Kamerad, I was with the 4th Recon Btn. USMCR stationed at Corpus Christi NAS....later, '68 & '69 I got 50 jumps with the Confederate skydivers in Lubbock TX. That was a major technique the good Jagdpiloten used...Willi Reschke , who you might still find on U-Toob, wrote his memoir of flying with JG 301, exclusively attacking the huge B-17 & 24 Raids of '44 & '45.....that was a major technique he described-----firing up the main spar...with major fire on the wing, the pilot rings the bell and everybody gets the hell out, because, as you note, the wing WILL fail. Reschke got over 20 bombers, some pilots got none....he even brought a '24 down after his fire-control system failed, by doing the rare Ramjager Angriff---rammed the Elevator of the '24 and sent it down. Of course he had to jump. gl

[@MidnightExpressMC]

@@kaptainkaos1202 Thank for your service, sir!

[@MidnightExpressMC]

@@garyraines7511 Thank you for your service, sir!

[@mattl3729]

Wonderful quality footage- I've seen a few of these clips before, but never so clearly, and many are entirely new to me. Especially the one at 5:00 is impressive as you can see three of the B17's gunners firing- in previous, lower-quality versions of this clip, you an sort of see the ball turret smoke, but I hadn't noticed the tail or top gunners firing before.

[@hw97karbine]

The clarity really makes a difference, at 5:38 you can see the exact moment the ball turret gunner decides to evacuate his position.

[@SpenzOT]

@@hw97karbine From what I can remember, that gun camera footage was from a Bf-110G2 (saw it in their own title card of another version I watched). I can only imagine the havoc and horror those 30mm shells are causing in that bomber. I wish I knew what happened to that B-17, since that footage is one of the most popular clips, but those who do not return tell no stories. You are by far the best curator of this kind of footage. Thank you for sharing it (especially with no watermarks).

[@hw97karbine]

@@SpenzOT My pleasure! As to the clip alas without even a date it is hard to pin down the identity of the bomber. I don't think this particular 110 was equipped with 30mm cannon, what we are likely seeing the effects of 20mm MG 151/20 fire. The larger munition had around four times the bursting charge and would be tearing off much larger chunks, as well as shaking the camera more.

[@mattl3729]

@@hw97karbineHaving seen the ground test footage of an MK108 and the devestating damage it causes, I'd have to agree. It takes the entire tail off a fighter. There are also a very few confirmed clips of Me163 and 262s firing on bombers and the explosion flashes are huge.

[@hw97karbine]

@@maxandshakira I suppose you mean YB-40, and it's not the case, it has the standard loadout for a B-17G including the chin turret.

[@Farbar1955]

Nearly all of these are of bombers that had dropped out of formation and were by themselves. You could tell the tail gunners had been taken out since there was no return fire and so many shots through the fuselage had to have taken out the waist gunners. That last scene with the guns of the ball turret gunner hanging down and not moving was so sad.

[@AntonReut]

If the barrels of the ball mount hang down, it means the shooter has left the ball, because the hatch is located exactly behind the barrels.

[@Farbar1955]

@@AntonReut Sometimes but I don't see the reason why the gunner left the ball turret in the middle of the battle, outside of wounds (and he was pulled out) or the turret is in its default position because the gunner is incapacitated.

[@747ZEPP]

I noticed that, too so sad, these men, may they rest in peace...

[@hux2000]

@@Farbar1955 The most likely reasons are because he was hit and needed medical attention, or the turret or gun had been hit and disabled (in which case there's no point in the gunner being in there).

[@widehotep9257]

@@AntonReut That is EXACTLY what she said.

[@harrybo5482]

Sehr beeindruckende Aufnahmen! Der Frontalangriff war der Horror für die Bomber. Eine Garbe aus allen Rohren, 30mm und 20mm, war das Todesurteil für jeden Bomber. Ehre für die Toten beider Seiten.

[@glenncole7721]

One things for sure. I wouldn't want to have been a tail gunner in a B-17 or a Lancaster... or any bomber for that matter. It would have been bad enough anywhere on one of those bombers - but tail end Charlie must have had a somewhat shorter life expectancy? Thanks for the upload. Very haunting.

[@rosenscharf]

Also, the tail gunner was excluded from the cabin in all planes that I know of. Still, crews hated the ball turret position more.

[@jgstargazer]

glenncole7721: The skin of a bomber offered no protection for the crew against flack or enemy fighters. It had the thickness of a tin can. Knowing this such brave men.

[@Ukraineaissance2014]

These bombers have been damaged and seperated from the formation. Getting behind a formation of heavy bombers with a fighter is an extremely dangerous place to be, you get the combined effect of all the tail gunners in the formation firing at you, so it's not such a bad gunner position usually

[@lucas82]

I read several conflicting accounts on which position was in fact the most dangerous. Some sources claim the occupants of the cockpit were the least likely to survive, others claim the tail or ball-turret gunners. I suppose the navigator and the top turret gunner/engineer would have the best survival rates as they were behind the cockpit.

[@1ambrose100]

Daylight raids with no long range fighter escort was suicidal.

[@nathanbarnes4740]

I have been into WW2 history ever since I was a kid. Books, documentaries, movies, the lot. I have seen plenty of gun camera footage as well but I have to admit that the clarity of the above made it quite hard to watch. Knowing that there were very young men on the other side of those cannon rounds it becomes quite horrifying yet mesmerising at the same time. It's almost unbelievable seeing the real footage that clearly, particularly with Masters of the Air out atm, it's almost easy to think it's all just Hollywood until you see this.

[@brianoneil9662]

The B-24 had a ball turret that could be retracted into the main body to allow the gunner to exit. In the B-17, the turret was fixed to a transverse roof beam. The only way to enter or exit the turret in flight was to have the turret oriented with guns pointed down. The odds are good that any time you see a B-17 under attack and the turret is pointing straight down, the gunner has exited into the fuselage. The tailgunner, on the other hand, was isolated in one of the worst locations in the plane. Difficult to exit from, and center mass in the gunsights of a fighter attacking from behind.

[@JAlexanderCurtis]

That might explain why a bunch of this footage they are just trailing the b-17 for minutes straight on without seemingly getting any return fire from the tail. Very sad! But the tail gunner probably died early on.

[@tommytwotoes3880]

My heart just breaks for all these airmen.

[@atendriyadasa6746]

All spiritual histories of the world (for instance the Bhagavad Gita of India) say that, because they are a ultra-peak human potential, hero's that die in battle emerge in glorified spirit bodies, like angels, warrior-angels in the next life.

[@buckappel6835]

My father served with 401st Bomb Group Deenethorpe England. I remember him telling me about the mission over Schweinfurt Germany when I was a kid.

[@j.4332]

Maybe your Dad wasnt in the 401st if he flew on the two "classic" Schweinfurt raids of August 17th and October 14th 1943...The 401st didnt become operational until 26th November 1943,its first raid was on Bremen.

[@luapnosboh7421]

There's a 30 min video on here but I suppose you've seen it

[@string-bag]

Bless those young men, may they rest in peace.

[@miguelservetus9534]

What does that mean? Seriously, are the spirits/ghosts of the dead airmen who are restless? If we wish the to rest, does it help?

[@commandingjudgedredd1841]

​​@@miguelservetus9534 Depends if their spirits passed on, by accepting their fate. Others not so, and will "live out" WW2 until they become convinced otherwise. You asked, you got an answer.

[@miguelservetus9534]

@@commandingjudgedredd1841 I respect your response.

[@hairydogstail]

You get snarky from a sincere thought given to young men being killed in war?? You are demented.. @@miguelservetus9534

[@redtobertshateshandles]

When the ball turrets and guns aren't moving, you wonder if the guys are dead. That last plane.

[@methylene5]

Spaghetti sauce'd. No doubt.

[@williammorris584]

He’s probably pretty sure of it to close so slowly to tens of meters and finally using the rudder to spray the engines.

[@lukum55]

In the beginning of the clip you can see the tail, waist and top gunners returning fire but as the clip progresses and the bomber takes more hits the guns stop firing. The gunners either get killed, wounded or otherwise unable to continue firing.

[@PL-rf4hy]

The amazing thing to me is, the German was blasting the engines on the left wing at point blank range at the end, and they still appeared to be running normally.

[@julkitan3017]

Indeed, It’s incredible how this B17 could eat so many hits, it keeps on flying, pieces of metal, exploding and detaching from everywhere but it’s impressive how it seems to keep going, solid as a rock…

[@martham2930]

Thank you for sharing. Very interesting and intense footage. I read Donald Miller's book Masters of the Air and am also watching the series which has been excellent and quite well done. I'm sure filming it for the small screen vs a larger theatrical release viewing had it's challenges. But I'm glad the book was turned into a film to tell this story in a broader way. I have some background with the Mighty 8th AF Commemorative organization in the UK and these stories are so important to tell. Thanks, again, for sharing this and I hope people keep the men of the Greatest Generation in their hearts.

[@sergeantsalty1236]

Nope

[@6milesup]

@martham2930 I would also suggest reading "Damn Lucky" by Kevin Maurer. It too is an excellent book.

[@zahimiibrahim3602]

Brave men on both sides.

[@joey1317]

Wrong! Only Americans were brave. Germans were fighting for an evil cause

[@fractalign]

The courage and skill of those Luftwaffa pilots is unquestioned, not only are they having to dodge the defensive fire of what were the most heavily armed bombers in the world, they were also risking be taken out by the flying debri !

[@indy_go_blue6048]

Many flew into and through their own flak as well.

[@CobraBry]

After finding out that my great grandpa sadly passed away as a waist gunner, this makes me feel for him and imagining what every b17 crew member had to go through. According to my great grandma he was in his last few missions and on a mission the b17 and his position where strafed by a German plane, and the bullet wounds he received where said to be as big as tennis balls.

[@davidmurphy8236]

Given that Luftwaffe had very powerful 20 and 30mm cannons, it’s a wonder how anyone survived their attacks….

[@boon1580]

adolf hitler once asked one of his fighter ace adolf galland whether if he wanted to add 2x20mm cannons to his wings or 1x30mm cannon in the prop shaft. galland said 'both' and adolf hitler grinned and gave him both.

[@markusschmidt4597]

Viele deutsche Jagdflieger verloren ihr Leben,als sie die Amerikanischen fliegenden Festungen angriffen. Jeder dieser Flugzeuge war mit 12× 12,7 mm Maschinen Kanonen bewaffnet . Ausgesprochene Killer waren das.Die deutschen mußten sich diesen Herausforderungen stellen. Der Luftkrieg über Europa brachte viele Opfer mit sich. Für jede Seite. Kriege sind das Barbarischste, was der Mensch bis zum heutigen Tag macht.

[@allgood6760]

So glad these videos exist.. thank you👍✈️

[@Bo_Nidle]

A few comments on here regarding the apparent lack of defensive fire. I think you’ll find it is there but it should be remembered that the USAAF eventually removed the tracer rounds from the gunners ammo belts as it was causing them to suffer from parallax error with their fire being perceived to be on target when it wasn’t.

[@mikewebster8224]

The overall width and shape of the Liberator fuselage seems like its a lot easier to line up with and put rounds into from behind

[@anthonyfox5337]

Front on attacks were brutal.

[@4vepvik781]

That B24 got the full fat head on attack straight through the cockpit!!..😮😮😮 Did the pilots survive!!??🙏🏾🙏🏾

[@hw97karbine]

One thing you have to consider is the approach velocities, the fact that the aircraft are flying head-on means that the velocity of both aircraft can be added to projectile velocity. So if for example a 13mm bullet weighing 38 grams would normally impact at 600 meters per second if fired from a static gun at a static target, it would have an impact energy of 6863 joules. Lets say the attacker and the target are flying towards each other at a combined velocity of 150 meters per second, we can (with some approximation, one would need to take deceleration due to air resistance into account) add that velocity to the projectile on impact, meaning it now hits at 750 meters per second and 10722 joules of energy, over 50% more than it would have if both aircraft were static.

[@capthawkeye8010]

The Luftwaffe began to prefer them for a time but the G model B-17 inherited the chin gun of the YB-17 to deter these attacks. In any case, only the Bf109 could really perform them as only it had enough performance at altitude to fly ahead of the B-17. The 110 and FW190 could only manage it if vectored beforehand, and they'd only get one pass. The 110's climb performance over 15,000ft was poor and the 190 was just all-around bad over 15,000 feet because it lacked a turbocharger. Focke Wulf pilots reported that over 20,000 feet the B-17 could actually outrun them.

[@hw97karbine]

@@capthawkeye8010 Typical of the German situation, the Ta 152 came far too late.

[@mattl3729]

@@4vepvik781Probably not. Those were 2cm explosive shells, maybe mixed with armour-piercing, so...

[@daskommandantkrieger2503]

"Fine gunnery, men. Gitcha case of beer for that!" - Oberst Kilgore

[@zoop2132]

This is insane footage.

[@piersp38]

Now you understand, from where the high Quality of Carl Zeiss and Leica optics come from.

[@devingraves8044]

The footage at 2:32 is amazing. You can see the debris clearly coming off of the B24, as well as bombs falling to the right of it at one point

[@mattl3729]

Yeah, the bombs falling was freaky... I can't help but wonder if the fighter pilot was so fixated on his target that he didn't see them, or he did and felt the helplessness that he couldn't stop those falling on the people below...

[@thejohhny2943]

@@mattl3729 You think they were jettisoning their payload as a last resort to help evade fighters?

[@mattl3729]

@@thejohhny2943That's a good question- I don't know if that's something that would be done in a formation; I've heard of lone planes doing that when they're damaged and have to turn around or something, but this looks like a proper formation. Well wondering what all the different details in a record like this mean is one of the fascinating things about them :)

[@don_5283]

@@thejohhny2943 If you look at the plane in question, earlier in the clip it looks like the #1 engine (far left as you're looking at the back of the plane) may be trailing smoke. If the engine was failing for whatever reason, a B-24 probably would not be able to keep up with the formation while also carrying its bomb load, so you jettison the bombs in order to try to stay with the formation, and use your guns to contribute to formation defense, and try to get your plane safely home. What happens to lone stragglers is clearly attested by several of the other clips here. Better to ditch the bombs and bring the plane and crew home, to try again in a couple days.

[@upsd70mflared76]

3:32 this is B-17G 42-37827 of the 351st BG. Was shot down by six ME 109s, knocking off half of stabilizer, salvoed bombs before baling out; ship crashed Oberelsbach, 28 miles N of Schweinfurt.

[@hw97karbine]

I don't think so, 42-37827 was shot down on April 13th 1944 while this footage appeared earlier in a German newsreel published over a month earlier on March 8th.

[@chrisbjornberg7838]

A couple things amaze me... 1: How close the fighter pilots actually get to a bomber that has about 8 guns... 2. That the fighter pilots slow down to have longer to try to hit the bombers, and right behind the tail gunner which is seriously dangerous... the tail gunner doesn't have to lead his shot.

[@npg68]

at 4.04 is that debris falling from the bomber or an airman falling from or bailing from the bomber?

[@seabee888]

My guess is that it‘s one of the bomb bay doors. The piece seems rather large and not very heavy, judging by how slow it falls towards the ground, much like the wing pieces that come off a few moments later.

[@kaptainkaos1202]

Does anyone know if their were reports of Luftwaffe aircraft being lost due to damage from parts coming off the Allied aircraft? There was a lot of stuff falling and many of the Luftwaffe aircraft were in the middle of the stuff. Also I saw very few instances of muzzle flash from the Allied guns.

[@hw97karbine]

Ace of aces Erich Hartmann, whose preferred technique was to get as close as possible before opening fire, made several forced landings as a result of his Bf 109 being struck by debris from the aircraft he was targeting.

[@FrecherPfirsich]

Most Nightfighter (Bf-110) chose 20mm over 30mm because of the low distance in night fighting. The 20mm cannons could easily set a bomber on fire, while the heavy 30mm shells often damaged the night fighter due to flying parts of the bomber flying off.

[@timmorodgers4271]

I remember reading about a British night fighter (possibly a Beaufighter) which flew through the fireball of the JU88 it was attacking as it exploded. After landing part of a Luftwaffe airman’s uniform was found in an air intake.

[@aesoundforge]

Not sure that i have seen all of these before. Nice find

[@lucasokeefe7935]

The last clip seems slowed down at first. What range were those shots taken at? What aircraft? Obviously multiple nose mounted cannon, so my first guess is an FW-190.. But those rounds look quite a bit larger and slower firing than 20mm.. Were there any variants equipped with the 30mm used on the Me262? EDIT: Of course I typed this out before reading the description.. D'oh. I had forgotten the Bf-110 existed. I give myself props for recognizing the 30mm over the 20 though!

[@FrecherPfirsich]

I think this is not 30mm MK108, but 20mm MG151. Look how the 30mm cannon shells explode kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHWycpWVep14qrcsi=3CdiH-Klmo_GGdw6

[@JKeays100]

Those are in the Letter scene in the movie Memphis Bell (1990)

[@dicko-200]

They make it look so easy

[@memyshelfandeye318]

It's the footage from the fighters that came back, remember ...

[@B17FlyingFortress]

Very interesting gun camera footages. I wish, we can see more markings of the planes or the serial number to identify the individual ship and crews. @0:13 - I can see a white triangle on its right wing. 1st Air Division of the 8th Air Force. Looks like a „L“ inside the triangle. Means 381st Bomb Group. @4:32 - I believe this is a 15th AF ship, because no unit markings (Bomb Group) on the right wing. And the mountains could be the alps. @6:00 - sun is on the left (right side of fuselage is in shadow). Heading westwards. England, or Italy. Can’t see unit markings either. I guess 15th AF ship.

[@hw97karbine]

Unfortunately it's very rare to be able to make a positive identification, the few that I'm most sure of are listed in this compilation: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXq8qZJqa9CFh5I

[@pvtjohntowle4081]

Did that last B-17 have two BTG's ?? Looks like there are two ball turrets underneath the ship. 06:04

[@seanmcdonough7394]

Chin mounted turret.

[@user-hw6hb4rk9t]

If you put it on the slowest speed, it's a lot easier to see details of these attacks, hits and misses.

[@pistolpete6321]

Shocking footage! Must have been absolutely terrifying for bomber crews.

[@chrisnewtownnsw]

We can't quite fully imagine it. The type of fear that has you uncontrollably shaking.

[@markusschmidt4597]

Auch für die deutschen Jagdflieger war der Anblick einer „Fliegenden Festung “ mehr als Furchteinflößend. Es bedurfte schon eine menge Mut ,sich diesen Bombern auf Schußentfernung zu nähern.

[@chrisnewtownnsw]

@@markusschmidt4597 very true

[@IceManHG117]

Those head on attacks were brutal for the pilots.

[@methylene5]

I can't be sure, but I think that may have been intentional.

[@user-wz2qe2pv6r]

Havent seen this batch before...great lumps coming off that Liberator....sitting ducks, but the Jerrys didnt have it all their own way. Pilots have quoted, against some organised attacks it could be like flying thru a hail storm of lead.......

[@user-jv4ic8rh4d]

Anyone else see the foofighter at the 2.43-2.56 mark??? On the left edge of the film coming towards the camera.

[@bluskytoo]

it was a puff of smoke from the B-24 that was hit

[@thedevilneveraskstwice7027]

Can someone please show this to Hanks and his team of experts which made "Masters of Air" tv-series?

[@astupiddvdcase]

nahh they preferred Star Wars style air combat

[@Conradlovesjoy]

Is it bad?

[@nkristianschmidt]

from the 75 seconds I endured, it so crappy, they wouldn't care

[@Sokol10]

@@astupiddvdcase What is norm in Hollywood, Russy'wood, etc.

[@seanmckenna228]

​@@Conradlovesjoy it's brutal. Acting is piss poor and the CGI isn't far behind.

[@ToddChaddingtonEsq]

was that someone falling out of the ball turret or a bailout from the open bomb bay?

[@hw97karbine]

It's not clear whether the bomb bay doors are open in the newsreel clipping but looking at this extended version it looks like they might be, and the fact that another man seems to drop out beforehand that makes it more likely.

[@sticktrik]

You cannot bail from the ball turret if the guns are pointing down!!!

[@methylene5]

A little known fact is that many if not most attacking fighters didn't actually use tracer rounds, and in some clips you can tell which attacking pilots are using their sights as trained to do, and others are "hose piping" the tracers which was a waste of ammo. This is why many stopped using tracers as they weren't needed.

[@FrecherPfirsich]

Where did you get that information? I cannot confirm it because the quantity of tracer ammunition was chosen based on personal preference or availability. Ammunition belts were usually filled in a mixed way. In June 1944, a belt for a rigidly installed MG151/20 in a fighter aircraft for use against four-engine bombers consisted of the following: mine projectile, incendiary grenade, tank incendiary grenade.

[@methylene5]

@@FrecherPfirsich Glad to hear my comments aren't still shadowbanned. Google is your friend. I would gladly send links, but yt won't allow it usually. Have a search online, if you don't have much luck I'll try and post links.

[@FrecherPfirsich]

@@methylene5I didn’t found infos, that’s why I asked. The only thing I know is that added tracer (Leuchtspur Oder Glimmspur) was chosen based on personal preference or availability.

[@methylene5]

@@FrecherPfirsich Mate, I don't doubt your integrity. I've just had a quick search and found many links. I'm using a laptop, and did a quick search and quite a few forums/links that came up, rather than using a smartphone. To be fair, I only learned about this myself just a few days back. I had always assumed they all used tracers, but actually I had that wrong after a couple decades of watching guncam footage. It wasn't the pilots that didn't want tracers, it was the high command who banned the tracers after evaluation/analysis of guncam footage and the waste of ammunition.

[@methylene5]

@@FrecherPfirsich Not the best link, but we'll see if yt even allows this. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6DXkJdmlqxrapY&ab_channel=WWIIUSBombers It was the same for fighters as well.

[@ald1144]

I'm guessing a lot of these were before the P-51 came along. Some of these Luftwaffe pilots are taking their sweet time on the trigger, not at all like they're afraid of getting bounced.

[@billyrock8305]

Luftwaffe- Topgun #1 🥇

[@pvtjohntowle4081]

A lot of these B-17's and B-24's if not all are stragglers, they have become seperated from the box formation that gave them protection. Also before March 44 when the P-51's started to escort the bombers as per Episode 7 of Masters of the Air

[@CorvusHyperion]

Yes, the losses were staggering. The B-17 was a sitting duck due to its slow speed.

[@steveo601]

My grandfather flew p51’s for the RCAF squadron 430. They were in that theater from dday to early 1945. France, Germany. There are sitting ducks then there were those. Those tail and belly gunner positions were near suicide from a wide open rear attack.

[@slammerf16]

I don't think Master of the Air is a research resource.

[@monsterstereos1836]

Damn, those bombers were easy pickings for the Luftwaffe. I also noticed that some of those rear guns in those bombers were just aimlessly dangling - not shooting back. Those guys never had a chance.

[@darrellcaraway6068]

They shot the tail gunner first

[@darrellcaraway6068]

They shot the tail gunner first

[@darrellcaraway6068]

They weren't stupid . It's us or them

[@johnguz76]

Every picture the bombers do not seem to be firing back or you would see gun flashes.Why?

[@FrecherPfirsich]

You can see them firing back, don’t see the smoke? f.e. 04:48

[@grahambamford9073]

My Grandfather flew bombers in ww2 this is brutal to watch, he never talked about what he experienced, he survived the war and died years later in his 80s apparently before he died my father and him had a chat about ww2, my father was quite shocked about what he found out, and never talked about it either.

[@pvtjohntowle4081]

It's also amazing that the Flak is still firing at the bombers (black puffs of smoke) at the same time that the fighters are attacking the bombers. I thought they would stop first and allow the fighters to attack to avoid friendly fire but I stand corrected.

[@FrecherPfirsich]

These black puffs of smoke aren‘t the Flak exploding, it's the cannon shells exploding slightly lower (because of their ballistic trajectory) at far distances.

[@6milesup]

@pvtjohntowle4081 In 1944 the German pilots did start attacking our bombers in the middle of their own flak. That is because Hermann Goring was getting so much heat from Hitler to stop the bombers that he order his pilots to do whatever it takes to kill the bombers. In certain instances, this even included ramming. I suggest reading "Damn Lucky" by Kevin Maurer where he points this out.

[@NiSiochainGanSaoirse]

Naah, you're right. Germans would always stop flak when their fighters were overhead. Americans bomber Crewe also tended to shoot back when Germans planes were around, but not a single.one of these bombers shot back... I think this is fake footage

[@FrecherPfirsich]

@@NiSiochainGanSaoirse this isn’t fake, you can see them shooting back, f.e. 04:48

[@hux2000]

@@NiSiochainGanSaoirse First, in some of the clips they are shooting back. Second, in the clips where they're not shooting back, that's because the rear-firing guns have been hit and are disabled, or the gunners have been hit and are wounded or dead. If that were not the case, you'd be seeing a lot of considerably less interesting clips of fighters shooting bombers from much further away, or lots of head-on clips of fighters screaming past bombers, only able to fire off a few rounds in a second or two, hoping they don't get hit. But when the tail and belly guns have been disabled, the fighter can camp behind the bomber and fire as many rounds as it likes with impunity. Those are the kinds of clips this channel has decided are the most interesting.

[@wojciechwilk2535]

Shows how difficult aiming was.

[@davegoldsmith4020]

I live close to what was RAF RAckheath, home to the B-24, one named Witchcraft completed 130 missions, it makes you wonder how the hell did it survive.

[@don_5283]

She was a lucky bird, but starting her career in April 1944 is a big help there. Big Week in February took a lot of the stuffing out of the Luftwaffe, and the decision to start employing fighter sweeps really dropped the level of active fighter resistance, compared to what was seen all through 1943. Still amazing to see her survive so many missions, but declining German resistance made it at least feasible in 1944 and 1945.

[@hissingsid6854]

More of a U-Boat nerd tbh so I’m not that well versed in fighter interceptor tactics of the period but it looked like the German pilots were shooting centre mass into the fuselage at distance before closing and concentrating on the engines? I’m guessing this was to disable the crew/gunners before going for the kill? Also the bombers don’t seem to be taking much evasive action. I know they were lumbering, flying milk crates but surely they were able to manoeuvre enough to give the enemy fighters a harder time with their deflection shots? Did they fly straight and level in order to give their gunners a better chance of a hit? Regardless it can’t have been much fun being stuck in a narrow metal tube while a fighter leisurely unloaded its entire supply of explosive ammo into you. The seconds under such fire must have stretched out into mental hours. Horrific really, probably better off in the infantry.

[@jamesricker3997]

Luffwaffa gun camera footage is very rare. It was all stored in a central depository, that depository was in Dresden

[@DarkSygil666]

Wasn't that place fire bombed?

[@ss-oq9pc]

Pretty sure you can see the tail gunners face at 6:02. And during the fighters approach to that bomber you can see the tail gunner and belly gunner gun shooting before they're possibly killed.

[@hw97karbine]

I can see why you would think that, but I would say that we are seeing is the tail gunner's bullet resistant glass panel shattered by a shell impact.

[@robh4671]

OMG those guys in the tail gun and ball turret positions really taking it Hard.

[@scottjuhnke6825]

That B-24 at 3:52. That was, for me, the scariest. One has to wonder, given how the German guns lit up the cockpit, if those boys made it out, let alone home.

[@FrecherPfirsich]

probably not, most of the used cannon shells were explosive shells. Let us hope they did not saw it coming or suffered.

[@teatime6597]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2Kvhquno5aEj5I

[@bluedragontoybash2463]

is the 20 mm cannon outrange the .50 cal ?

[@thedevilneveraskstwice7027]

depends on the ammo type. Minengeschoss shells had (en major) self destruction mechanism after travelling for some 1500 metres or so...

[@bluedragontoybash2463]

after resorting to google, .50 cal outrange (4.6 miles vs 2.7 miles), so its not cake walk to kill a bomber.

[@Sokol10]

It's the other way around, Browning .50 has effective range of 1800 meters and theoretical 7400 meters. German MG 151/20 20mm cannon has effective range of 1000 meters.

[@chpman2013]

No, the .50 has better range than the 20mm...but the 20mm has much better hitting power, as you can see.

[@hw97karbine]

The .50 cal bullet is just a metal slug that relies on its velocity to damage the enemy, this means that the farther away it hits, the slower it will be and the less effect on target it will have. For a high explosive cannon shell, the velocity is less relevant, so a hit at 100 meters or 1000 meters is going to cause more or less the same amount of damage. That being said, the chances of a hit are reduced with distance, and we can see for example in the cases where self-destructing shells are visible that a considerable number of them fail to find their mark. Coming in from dead astern without the need for deflection however a competent pilot could still get good results, for example at 2:32 the firing starts at considerable range and yet a good number of hits land on target.

[@SNOUPS4]

In the fourth one, I wonder if the german pilot stops shooting for a few moments because he sees the people about to bail out.

[@markusschmidt4597]

In den meisten Fällen versuchten die deutschen Piloten, die gegnerischen Besetzungen zu verschonen. Bei den deutschen Jagdfliegern gab es bis zum bitteren Ende die „Jagtflieger Ehre“

[@collenfisher3635]

Would love to know if the German aircraft is a 109 or 190??

[@mattl3729]

Some are 110s.

[@DeltaEchoGolf]

Which carried a 30mm cannon in the nose.

[@mattl3729]

​@@DeltaEchoGolfThey could, yes, but most had just the 2cm MG151/20s. None of the hits in any of these clips appears large enough to be a 3cm MK108 shell- it had something like 4x the explosive filler of a 2cm Minengeschoss.

[@shootfirst2097]

3:53 Horrifying footage. Everybody on the flight deck was probably killed

[@user-vw7wh4zd1v]

Horrendous. Poor lads.

[@VodkaRob]

Errie footage. It must have been terrifying for those in the air on both sides.

[@BrettMcS]

The two-man Mosquito bomber variant could carry about the same bomb load as a B-17 but could also fly faster and higher than the defending fighters. One of those quirks of history.

[@hw97karbine]

It sounds like a no-brainer at first glance, but you have to look at the wider picture. The objective of the strategic bombing campaign was not only to drop ordnance on Germany, but also to destroy the Luftwaffe. In order to intercept a Mosquito, you would need a fighter that is fast enough to catch it, and it doesn't need to be too heavily armed and armored, which would also make it perfect for dealing with any escorting fighters. Attacking formations of four-engined bombers bristling with guns on the other hand required aircraft so weighed down with extra firepower and protection that they needed their own escort, and it also meant there would be combat losses for the Luftwaffe from that defensive armament. When you consider that achieving air superiority was a major goal of these operations then it makes more sense.

[@don_5283]

The difference between an aircraft that first flew in mid-1935 and one that first flew in late 1940 is pretty incredible.

[@yobb89]

these bf110 g2 didn't have 30mm ? or is the b17 such a tank, some of those shots did nothing ..

[@MatzeB111]

Eine der krassesten Guncam aufnahmen die ich gesehen habe. Da läuft es mir eiskalt den Rücken runter, wenn ich mir überlege, wie den Jungs in den Bombern die Geschosse und Granaten um die Ohren geflogen sind.

[@sergeantsalty1236]

Hast du auch Mitleid mit den Menschen am Boden wenn die Bomber ihr Ziel erreicht hätten ?

[@putik72]

@@sergeantsalty1236Hatte den gleichen Gedanken,ich denke den Meisten ist gar nicht bewußt was da am Boden geschehen ist.Oder für diese Leute sind brennende und zerissene Kinder eine Kleinigkeit.

[@magicmarc2733]

​@@putik72Das ist wohl den meisten bewusst, diese sind aber in der Regel nicht so blöd, dass sie den Unterschied zwischen Ursache und Wirkung nicht verstehen. Und wie man Zivilisten bombardiert, hat die Luftwaffe vom ersten Tag an (Wielun, Rotterdam, Coventry) gezeigt. Aber da sind verbrannte Frauen und Kinder dann plötzlich halb so schlimm, waren ja schließlich keine Deutschen.

[@militarytension236]

Die ermordeten Zivilsten in den Feuerstürmen von Hamburg und Dresden sehen es mit Sicherheit anders.

[@frankcoala5890]

Das geschah nur um zu verhindern, daß den Jungs Unten die Splitter um die Ohren fliegen und den Mädels der Phosphor heiß den Rücken runterläuft

[@spike7319]

It must have been very frustrating to see your mates fly off knowing that a fighter was stuck on your 6 peppering your crate with APT, Incendiary and Explosives. Pure horror. First the fuselage section is shot at to take out the gunners. You can see that none of the guns are moving and you can also see how the fighter uses the rudder to fire from right to left across the whole width of the fuselage.

[@widehotep9257]

4:41 You can see the head of the top turret gunner in between his two 50-cals.

[@rumriverpikelake]

I had never seen this particular footage before. Bordering on the macabre knowing those were our guys. Heartbreaking on those images where the turret guns were no longer manned.

[@dirkdiggler3552]

Ii8

[@lanceschaerer6875]

That last one either everyone was getting ready to bail or they were all dead neither of them gun turrets moved and the tail gun was shot up

[@thewoodster8607]

Appreciate. But never forget that men are dying in these planes in front of your eyes.

[@ChuckBeefOG]

I guess this is why they called them the Flying Fortress.

[@Nick-bp7jf]

This is very chilling footage. People are dying right there. On another note, i wonder how many Lutwaffe fighter pilots were killed by their own flak whilst intercepting the bombers.

[@szaki]

I've noticed, some of these flack explosions are very close to the bombers, but not seeing any damage or the bomber react to it! Like when it machined gun from the rear, pieces coming of the bomber, very dangerous to the attacker too!

[@GBst1007]

Wow , just wow

[@vonelbing8465]

The sheer terror, the surviving bomber crew members must have felt as they watched the protection of the formation disappear into the distance.

[@johnsimms4501]

You can see those poor bomber gunners at ~4:48 firing at the fighter only to have him swing around to the other side and pepper them. Ugh.

[@alistairbarclay3116]

What’s amazing is the apparent lack of return fire from the bombers guns?

[@hw97karbine]

In the notations I have indicated where smoke from the defensive guns firing is visible

[@Zindo.Majesty.HisMajesty]

Things were like old Timex watches. Takes a beating and keeps on ticking

[@mattl3729]

Well, like what's said about the P47, that's an over-simplification. A lot was made of those that made it back in bad shape- reasonably so- but the losses were still huge, so they're misleading. It's a sort of survivor bias, and largely propaganda to keep morale up.

[@mcnultyssobercompanion6372]

I see a ton of comments wondering why the bombers "are not firing back". I'm no military scholar, but I doubt this is actually the case. They're armed to the teeth and in a fight for their lives. My guess is we just can't (in much but not all of this footage) see it. First, consider this is 1940's black and white film stock, not 4K ultra HD. It's shot at high altitude in vibrating machines that vibrate even more when the cannons fire. This inevitably is going to compromise clarity. There's _a lot_ of shaking and my guess is return fire may likely be happening during these moments. Second, many of these attacks are taking place from far away. We see the German cannons because they're next to the cameras, unlike the weapons on the bombers. Third, I'm wondering if atmospheric effects, determined by altitude, pressure and temperature, among other things, may have effected the ability of the bomber weapons to show up on camera. Fourth, again I'm no military expert, but as I understand it, these German planes attacked in waves, and I was wondering as I watched if certain guns on the bombers were simply trained on other targets out of our view. And fifth, again, there are several instances, particularly the final attack, where returning fire is visible. Though even in that attack you may have to look for it at first. Of course correct me if I've got some things wrong, but I'm certain the gunners in these bombers are returning fire much more than not.

[@don_5283]

Some of these appear to be attacks on stragglers, which have already likely taken damage, and may have crewmen wounded or killed, and guns therefore unmanned. Those puffs of smoke from the last poor B-17 returning fire can be very difficult to see if you're not carefully looking for them, so I wouldn't be surprised if we're missing them in other clips, too.

[@Victorseafog]

It is hard to understand so many years later to understand how these bombers were left on there own without any fighter planes, so sad. I don't see any support

[@ahmadeid3005]

GUYS is B-17 at 0:26 is the same B-17 at 3:16 ? Same wing at fire!!!

[@1FokkerAce]

3:55….. The PATIENCE of that! That was crazy.

[@johnadams-wp2yb]

Why was that Liberator flying straight when they knew that they were being shot at?

[@iwantdog]

Take notes “Masters of the Air” CGI teams. Fighters didn’t zoom around like f**king pod racers on Tatooine.

[@Zopf-international]

It's truly horrendous seeing the cockpit being blown to pieces, head on. You poor men.

[@frankvandergoes298]

It's certainly not like its portrayed in mobies or television shows.

[@mattl3729]

No. The sad thing is that movies and TV glorify war, when in reality it's simply a tragedy and the most wasteful thing that can ever be done.

[@sarcasticguy4311]

@@mattl3729 I don't know about that. If there was no WW2 then all of Europe would be speaking Russian right now.

[@Wollemand]

Proof of Some really determined Luftwaffe pilots in here.. Some even flying through their own FLAK to get to their enemy

[@Jan6750]

The head on was pretty gruesome. The explosion of flesh, bone and blood in that area must have been a horrific sight for any surviving crew before bailing out....if they did.😒

[@markusschmidt4597]

Die B17 hatte kaum einen toten Winkel.Vorne waren die ersten B17,die am Luftkrieg über Europa Teilnahmen ,sehr verwundbar. Später bekamen die B17 den sogenannten Kinnturm,der Frontalangriffe deutscher Piloten zwar nicht unmöglich ,aber riskanter machte.

[@Matthew_Eitzman]

The war would have ended sooner if the Luftwaffe had been taking selfies.

[@camrenwick]

I feel for the crews. Terrifying

[@mlose50]

The tail gunners and ball turret had it rough

[@bevanson]

No evasive action or apparent return fire??

[@buckethead9894]

I agree, how maneuverable were the B-17? Could they at least bank back and forth rather than fly straight and level while being plastered? I realize most may have already been too damaged and became stragglers but sheez this was sickening to watch.

[@BlueAsh-MilitaryAviation]

3:05 when the B24 in upper right corner of screen drops its payload of 12 bombs.