What is the 1472 / Form 4 Inspection? Steam Locomotive Rebuilds | Railroad 101

Rebuilding steam locomotives is a big deal. Let's talk about it.
Visit the channel shop: hycetrains.com...
Join my discord: / discord
Become an ES&D Train Crew Member and get extra perks!
/ @hyce777

[@Hyce777]

Apologies on the autofocus having a stroke on a few shots - this was the second outing with the new camera and I'm still learning the quirks. I appreciate you guys for bearing with me!

[@CMDRSweeper]

Well, if you need to take a page out of the KZbinr "AvE" or "Arduino vs Evil" to learn how to deal and fix auto focus. You have to say "Focus you fack" with a Canadian slang to make them behave! Great success amongst other KZbinr's who has tried the same as well :D

[@vincentrosario5358]

I love that one of her drivers has the pie symbol on it. And pie Day was only 3 days ago (as of writing)

[@darknut9696]

When 346 comes back into service will she have the ridge way spark arrestor or the original class 70 / Baldwin style cap? Great video!!

[@RinoaL]

It's no worries, we've all been there with new hardware.

[@calenedgar3722]

Can you do a video of the calculations and some more videos as the restoration progresses? As an engineer (mechanically speaking) anything you are looking at specifically or any surprises in the restoration...

[@steveboguslawski114]

A little more history- The Locomotive Inspection Act of 1911 established mandatory boiler inspections and working pressure x 4.0 was considered good design practice by then. However, it was found that roughly two-thirds of all locomotives inspected were operating at a lower safety factor. It was decided that 3.25 would become the standard for locomotives built before 1912, with a gradual increase phased in over 10 years. Between 1912-1922 locomotives which could not meet the new standard were removed from service, derated to lower pressure, or rebuilt with new boilers.

[@Hyce777]

Oh that's neat!

[@YourLocalRailfan]

“We need to find out if grandma is pregnant” “We use an ultrasound machine” (All referring to a locomotive) -Hyce

[@martinadams7949]

the fellows in portland, call it boy butter

[@danius_huganius]

wait how did grandma get pregnant in the first place

[@Stooltoad5017]

191 isn’t restorable, but I’d love to see a mechanical assessment of her condition. The loggers in Wisconsin left her pretty beaten and I’m curious to see how badly. I’m going to leave a quote from who I presume to be the engineer of the locomotive: “The boiler is busted in a place or two, The heads hold on by a rusty flue, The crown sheet is burned and the wheels all flat, A side sheet blister like a derby hat, The whistle is missing and so is the bell, The tank’s all rusty and leaks like hell, And boiler patches-she has a few-For I think she was built in Seventy Two. The cylinders are oval where they ought to be round; One end of the equalizer drags on the ground. I tried to run her and got her hot, Every seam leaked and at every spot. I opened the throttle with a good track ahead, She gave two exhausts-groaned and went dead. The cab is like steel but it’s made of tin, But she’s a d___ good engine for the shape she’s in”

[@Stooltoad5017]

From what I could find, this is a real assessment of what condition she was in. I found it in a book about the Thunder lake narrow gauge. (Literally called Thunder Lake Narrow Gauge by Harry Huston.)

[@notlisted-cl5ls]

yer funny for a jiveass honky foamer.

[@lowrider96]

I’ve rolled those tubes. Hydro tested afterwards. A “Ladyslipper” and dancing w an air chisel will strengthen your hands and arms into Hulk mode. I love boiler work. I’m retired now and w age I appreciate trains more. This video is clutch. I learn and get confused everytime! ✌️😎

[@Hyce777]

Cheers my friend!

[@CDROM-lq9iz]

I suppose this is another video that can be added to the list of "why did diesel replace steam?" Where I work, we perform 1104day (tri-annual) inspections and they're nowhere near as lengthy of a process as going through a boiler must be. With two shifts of 3 good guys, a tri can be knocked out in about 2 days and that locomotive can be fired up afterwards and on a train in an hour if the need arose. Compared to the amount of work you guys must have to put in and the amount of time it takes *just* to fire up the locomotive. It really is great to see the amount of work you guys put in to keep the history of these things alive for ours and hopefully future generations to enjoy. Also, what you said around the 11:30 mark really struck a chord with me. So many people will look at something on a locomotive that's obviously worn, but still serviceable, and think "oh my, it's amazing that these things stay on the rail given how poorly maintained they are." Or look at something like anti-seize on lug nuts and think, "what's the big deal? I've seen that done hundreds of times without issue." Failing in both cases to realize that the people who design this stuff and tell you what to do and what not to do, have sat down and done the math on it and know what is and isn't a good idea to let slide. Common sense is useful, but shouldn't be trusted over cold hard testing.

[@Legomastr365]

I volunteer at the railroad museum of Long Island and our little narrow gauge engine number 1 just had her UT this past Thursday! She was rebuilt in 2019 and only steamed i think 5 days that year and hasnt steamed since so we're pretty sure shes gonna pass. Once she passes we're gonna fix a leaky washout plug and then i want to repaint her because her old southern railroad green is showing under the black lol. Cant wait to see her steam again this year!

[@valvegearstudios]

9:25 346: Chilling Hyce: Plays the guitar aggressively then throws it at grandma

[@shimesu443]

Ah, the 1472. Because some dimwits decided that boiler care wasn't something they needed to worry about, resulting in one melted crown sheet, three scalded crew, and a freaked out FRA. At least it forces people to take care of their engines properly if they intend to run them. You know, I've wondered a time or two if the 1472 only applies to steam locos running publicly, or if you have to adhere to it even if you're running your own little railroad on your own private land. Thanks for the update on Grandma, Hyce, and thanks for the footage of her running. Nice to see the old girl's still got it. Let her know we're all thinking of her.

[@toymachine2328]

Maybe a similar question, does the FRA deal with scale railroads? I'm thinking rideable steam trains, large scale miniatures, etc. I'd imagine if it deals with the public or employees, it's going to be subject to some kind of government scrutiny, be it FRA, OSHA, or both. If you want/need liability insurance, complying with inspection and training programs and having third party inspectors check your work would likely be helpful.

[@BandanRRChannel]

@@toymachine2328 The FRA's rules only apply to railroads of track gauge 24" or greater, which 1. connect to the national network, 2. operate within 30' of said network, or 3. cross a public highway or navigable waterway. Plus a few other conditions I forget at the moment. Rideable steam trains and large scale miniatures are below that and thus not FRA, but they may have to comply with certain state codes. The Colorado Railroad Museum doesn't meet the FRA requirements because it's disconnected (Insular) and doesn't cross a public road, so its engines technically only need to meet state boiler code. However, 20 and 346 can (and 20 has) travel by truck to other railroads which are FRA regulated, and therefore need to be FRA certified to operate on those railroads.

[@toymachine2328]

@@BandanRRChannel thank you

[@Hyce777]

If you're not under FRA jurisdiction, the 1472 does not apply. However, if you're not under FRA, you're likely under state jurisdiction, which is it's own bag of things varying state by state.

[@Hyce777]

​@@toymachine2328FRA doesn't do anything with stuff smaller than 2' gauge.

[@kmultig6163]

Honestly, you guys absolutely rock! Really impressed by dudes knowing how to handle a freaking steam locomotive :O Ultimate coolness, keep up the impressive work. Cheers :)

[@rgsrrofnc]

Thanks Mark. I'm glad to see '46 getting worked on again. I remember doing all that on the 318. Her dome was pretty thin at the saddle. It would be neat if the '46 could travel to CATS or D&S some day too. I might have to get out there to see that. Oh, any my wife didn't realize I have met you in person and knew you before you became the world famous Hyce... She thought you were just some guy I found on KZbin. LOL. I had to pull up the pictures from 2017.

[@Hyce777]

That's hilarious! Yeah, the plan is to take 346 out for adventures once she's ready...

[@F40M07]

1472 day inspection? They take it apart, inspect it for defects or cracks, and it takes almost 4 years.

[@DeliciousBoi]

I'm sure it would get done faster with more volunteers and a rich boi paying for it all.

[@toymachine2328]

Don't forget, raise money for replacement parts and labor

[@dstrcto]

No, 1472 is the number of days the locomotive can be run before it needs to be inspected and rebuilt.

[@Hyce777]

In many cases (including this one) it will take *more* than 4. Lol.

[@JAdg75oo00]

​@@DeliciousBoi I do agree maybe it's time for a few final steam train parts factory? To take the pressure off of Strasburg and silva shop in Illinois? 🙂🚂

[@fsj197811]

That patch is 1/2 the thickness of the rest of the boiler. So if it's up to spec then the rest of it is going to last many many years to come. Interesting video, thanks for sharing.

[@garysprandel1817]

Hyce getting his Marty McFly on by the pilot. Yeah Illinois Railway Museum took their Frisco decapod out of service for a number of years for a rebuild and brought it back into service 4 5 years ago. Apparently having only their Shay as the only steam engine functional on the property they started focusing on a UP consolidation to bring up to running condition. Just for the heck of it check out some of the videos on KZbin about 4 years or so ago where the museum earned a little off season income storing some coal hoppers for UP and posted videos of the museum moving the cars to the UP connection with several of the museum's vintage equipment including their Frisco steamer.

[@GraveSpartan21]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6KWaoJ7hKmjqaM&si=zTtt0SUMzCrvTzU4

[@dremein]

Yea! Seein' the calculations would be cool (no pun intended). As long as it doesn't involve differential equations, never did get my head around Calc II.

[@JanTonovski]

6:46 remember to look behind you for the throat sheet for MonTwoZuma mondays.

[@Hyce777]

We did :)

[@JanTonovski]

​@@Hyce777 Nice! I am looking forward to the next stream!

[@alexhajnal107]

Two surprises for me. First that the boilers are multi-layer; makes sense given that you want to keep it insulated but I always imagined them as being solid. Second surprise being just how thin the pressure vessel is. I wouldn't have thought that 0.5" thickness would suffice at that scale but I'm guessing a lot of it's down to cylinders/circles being inherently strong.

[@andrewreynolds4949]

The boiler itself is a single layer (although riveting requires overlap on the seams), but it does have a layer of insulation wrapped around it and a thin protective metal sheet (or “cladding”) on top of that

[@alexhajnal107]

@@andrewreynolds4949 Yea, that's what I was referring to. Three layers: Pressure vessel - Insulation - Outer (not pressure rated) jacket

[@steveboguslawski114]

The thickness of the steel required depends on the operating pressure and the shell diameter of the boiler. Bigger boilers operating at higher pressures require correspondingly thicker steel.

[@Hyce777]

Bigger engines had bigger boilers; 346 is pretty small. The K-36's have 3/4" boilers. I've heard Big Boy's is 1" or more.

[@alexhajnal107]

@@Hyce777 Those larger sizes are more in line with what I imagined (~30 mm).

[@drewbarker8504]

Thanks for taking time to go through Form 4 with us. Definitely interested in seeing more on 346’s progress when you have the time. To use a car joke, those thickness numbers look pretty good from 10 feet haha.

[@osageorangegaming5128]

Nice to learn a bit more about the 1472; knew in a general sense it was a rebuild and a "lets fix all the problems that have come up as the result of operating this machine that we can". Would love to see a vid on the math comparing the last Form 4 stats to this scan

[@ulfgard4734]

Just wanted to drop a comment to thank you for what you do, Hyce. I'm too busted up now to be able to get directly involved in any aspect of railroading, but I'm glad you are doing the hard work to make it an option for the young up-and-comers!

[@billbeverly2864]

These are the type of videos that I love. I love learning about the history and details. Yes, I would be interested in the math. Thanks Bill

[@kholdanstaalstorm6881]

So sad that the camera autofocus had an episode during recording, but other than that it's a banger of an educational video! I hope that it was an old camera and not something new you've got Hyce, but thank you for sharing even though there was issues with the recording. I'd listen to anything you'd like to talk about Hyce, because you've got a knack for making anything you're passionate about be interesting for those who you talk to, a sign of a talented and skilled educator.

[@Hyce777]

Nope! That's the new Sony. No idea why it was mad. Lol. Thanks for bearing with it.

[@kholdanstaalstorm6881]

@@Hyce777 Oh, noes! Not the new shiny one! I wonder what could have thrown it out on such a loop of shenanigans, too much of an almost single color background with loads of small lighter spots that messed it up? Check the settings for the autofocus and be certain there's no dirt or grime on the lenses, are my best tips. I hope you have better luck in the future.

[@jordanbell1997]

Brilliant to hear about the similarities and differences to the US and UK. Amazing video as always!

[@LibertyFarmsNeoWilsonRailway]

Great video. Safety is critical!!! I'm having a new boiler built for my Port Huron steam tractor. I would love to come out and ride the railroad someday!!!

[@coyotelarry]

Thanks for sharing, I have a new appreciation for steam locomotives!

[@SeaEngineering]

These inspections are very important, even in different industries. From my experience, weak points in a hull of a ship means it can only handle sea state to a certain level, this does apply to a boiler for structural integrity.

[@michaelhayes1678]

I love Grandma's tattoos! Glad she's still recovering from her surgeries! :D

[@patricksheary2219]

Mark, this was great. It was a treat to get a more detailed look at Grandma (so loved your previous video about her tube removal). I really liked how you described the boiler examining process. It was easy to follow and understand. Also, the process specifically as it relates to RR preservation. You really get to see construction technique of the boiler sections with rivets and all that. The period patch you showed on the boiler just above the suspension keepers and how that caused damage was nice to observe! To me, these are the best kind of details. Wonderful to hear you, Mark, discuss natural deterioration and how that plays a part in preservation and FRA requirements. I could go on about all the fab things I learned here, but suffice to say another excellent learning video, Professor. Oh BTW, nice and hilarious musical interlude! Reminds me of a classical ode call it “Ode to 346.” 🤣 Please share the test results that would be an excellent learning opportunity. OMG! So many thanks for this again, Mark and cheers to you!

[@Hyce777]

Cheers Patrick! Glad you enjoyed and learned some things too :)

[@EpicRails]

9:24 he shredded, an, acoustic guitar? Just WOW!

[@TheOneTrueDragonKing]

Was that Smells Like Kenosha he was playing?

[@Hyce777]

Yes!@@TheOneTrueDragonKing

[@TheOneTrueDragonKing]

@@Hyce777 I should have known!

[@Nareimooncatt]

Much as I love your shenanigans on DV and other games, I think this type of video is really your forté.

[@Hyce777]

This is the greater purpose of the channel imo. :D glad you dig it.

[@BandanRRChannel]

One subject you might want to address in a future update on Grandma is "which engines are subject to the 1472-day inspection?" and also "if it's not FRA-regulated, what rules DO apply?" Technically speaking, since the Museum is insular the FRA rules don't have to apply; however, 20 and 346 can be taken to other railroads, and therefore need that FRA certification to operate there. Actually, the degrees of FRA regulation could probably be a video of their own.

[@kornaros96]

If not FRA, it's TÜV then, or some ISO standard.

[@Hyce777]

For sure, a good shout. We're going FRA on 346 expressly for travel... :)

[@toymachine2328]

How about insurance? I'd imagine compliance with FRA or OSHA regs would help secure decent coverage, especially when it's open to the public

[@Hyce777]

@@toymachine2328 Nope, no issues there. I don't really know anything about the museum's insurance, but I know it doesn't involve anything with our FRA folks.

[@alexhajnal107]

Would love to see you go into the math. I'd be particularly interested in how the rated pressures were originally determined (e.g. based on strength of the design and materials, via full-scale testing of sample boilers, etc.)

[@AppalachiaRRlover]

You’re awesome Hyce! Both you and Jason Sobcynski! Learned way much more than I thought I ever needed to know bout steam trains Thank you

[@Ratkill]

9:40 OH MY GOD I NEED A ROWDY ACOUSTIC JAM SESSION ON A SPEEDING STEAM LOCOMOTIVE

[@douglas7046]

This is such great stuff and so well and beautifully presented. Thank you.

[@jacobramsey7624]

Can you do a video on how the locomotives and cars got from the factory out east to the railroad out west? Have seen the slim princess on a flat car, so I'm assuming that is what happened back in the day, but they didn't have the same equipment to do the transport and transfers like we do today so it would be interesting to see a video by you on the subject.

[@AlexandarHullRichter]

I'd be interested in that too. I assumed locomotives were all used to transport themselves from their place of manufacture to their place of use, and that they all would have been manufactured locally enough to do that. That's how airplanes are delivered.

[@BrooksMoses]

I'd very much be interested in a video on how you do the pressure calculations. Especially if you can also include how Baldwin would have done the calculations 120 years ago, back in the slide-rule days before computer models and finite-element analysis.

[@Hyce777]

I mean, the calcs are all done by hand still. Not with a slide rule... But yeah

[@FrameRate_24]

it always amazes me seeing where the (small but there) variance in thickness of the plate of boilers and such after they get measured and dotted up.

[@raymondchason2877]

just like the reading and northern 425 is in the 1472 inspection

[@alexwilliams9900]

Form 4, my mind went to “why dose he need a suppressor for a locomotive” lol wrong form 4

[@tsufordman]

SBR Short Boilered Railroad.

[@SignalLightProductions]

Great video Mark! I'd definitely be interested to see the calculation, particularly for the safety factor. Thanks!

[@devonshort494]

Milwaukee Road 261 is the same as well. 261 ran for only 10 years in regular service on the Milwaukee road and has ran longer in excursion service.

[@ehadder]

It always bothers me when people refer to a 1472 day inspection as a ‘rebuild’ or ‘restoration’. Rebuilding only occurs when things are not safe for service and need to be repaired. If the boiler is well maintained or not heavily worn, it might not need any repairs during the 1472 inspection.

[@AlexandarHullRichter]

It kind of is a rebuild if you have to dismantle half of the engine for access. The whole top half of the engine has to be taken off except for the boiler itself, and the flues that got removed are easily 1/3 of the total boiler construction. I imagine it would be even more involved to do it on a tank engine.

[@themanformerlyknownascomme777]

Impressive, glad to know that 346's rebuild is coming along smoothly, I must ask for the sake of Knowedge, do the Diesels also have to do a 1472 or equivalent?

[@Hyce777]

Diesels have a big rebuild, but it's very different

[@themanformerlyknownascomme777]

@@Hyce777 what's it's FRA name?

[@Weaselette07]

It was great to meet you yesterday at railfest

[@kingofthepod5169]

If you think the riveted suspension patches are weird, remember the A10 warthog's engine stalls when it fires it's gun, and the engineering solution was (and still is) run the starter motor to keep it running while it's shooting and flying.

[@brookspotts9312]

We are curious to see what no. 1129's boiler sheet is like after being a park locomotive for 67 years, and retired prior from '53' to '55. I'm cautiously optimistic. With an uncovered smoke stack though, it's anyone's guess how bad it is inside.

[@Hyce777]

Uncovered stack doesn't mean much for the boiler (though possibly the front tube sheet). The asbestos may have eaten away at the boiler - it's really good at holding moisture and causing scarring. Unless it was abated! I can't recall. Get you a UT tester and get after it... this is one of the easy ways to find out if you need $100K or $1000K to restore the thing.

[@brookspotts9312]

@@Hyce777 That's exactly what I'm referring to. The boiler jacket has given way at the bottom

[@brookspotts9312]

@@Hyce777 My concern is where the moisture is being trapped. No.1129's smoke box door leaves a gap high enough for water to collect without escaping and presumably that water is nestled in that gap and traveling down the lower tubes to the firebox. It's all new to me, but as I said, I'm curious to see what has happened.

[@Hyce777]

@@brookspotts9312 The smokebox should have a plug drain, which hopefully was removed. It shouldn't hold water. If the plug was left in... well, that's not ideal.

[@brookspotts9312]

@@Hyce777 Maybe the boiler will end up being an oversized planter? Maybe Cactus and juniper? In all seriousness yes it was never abated so it's had lot's of time to stew.

[@nw611J]

Really good Mark the joke about grandma being present was good lol! Are you guys going to have to drop the drivers? I recall from an older video where you and Brain were walking around her and you could pretty much fit your whole thirst between the drivers. Thanks again for the update man! Your friend Jeff AKA NW611J.

[@Hyce777]

Yup... It's gonna need everything done. Haha

[@nw611J]

@@Hyce777 majes since how will you guys drop the tires?

[@bluescrew3124]

This was fascinating and omg the riveted 😱Baldwin patch….. also you went mathing again….

[@royreynolds108]

The patch was installed at the Burnham Shops in Denver of the D&RG, not Baldwin. Baldwin did send some guys out to redo the firebox of the No 50 2-6-6-2T of the Uintah Ry because Baldwin built it for much less than the 7.5% grade specified by the railroad. Baldwin did lay a curve of 66* or a R of 91.804' or 91' 9 5/8" to try it on before shipping it. A photo was taken to prove the curve.

[@IsaacDaBoatSloth]

This will need to be done for montezuma build as well which would be interesting if we got walked through it when that happened

[@BrendanMazaleski]

Another great video, Hyce! When inspecting the boiler tubes, I imagine the buildup from the exhaust gas and particles inside the flues is the primary concern, but would you ever notice any issues of scale or corrosion on the water side of the tubes? If so, would these ever cause a noticable degradation in performance? I'm curious because in the power industry, the focus is on keeping boiler water really clean yet this does not appear to be a concern in steam locomotives. Seems to me that if they had a way to capture the condensed steam, they could solve two problems at once (keep purified water in the system, and reduce the need for water refills). Any thoughts?

[@west_side_9]

We still need to do this on the german 0-4-0 at the mcrr. That's it, and it's been out of service for 14 years.

[@StampBogge]

Very informational video! Do you think you can make a video briefly going over the different pieces of rolling stock around the turntable?

[@VintageRenewed]

Something you might add is that thicknesses can be different if the locomotives ever had major wrecks Sumpter valley 19 once wrecked and rolled into a river. For whatever reason due to the wreck the fireman side of the door sheet is a decent amount thinner than the rest of the firebox

[@Hyce777]

Impact tends to be that way

[@Grigori423]

We want to be more informed about rebuild? More calculations, more informations, more NERD stuff about steam locomotives?! HELL YEAH BROTHER! BRING ZE KNOWLEDGE! ALL OF IT!

[@t-12productions15]

Mark my words, when 346 returns, I am going to see grandma, and an idea for K-37 kitchen is chicken nuggets in 346

[@MercenaryPen]

as a Brit, for me the significance of 1472 is as the original number of Flying Scotsman

[@akaBoG]

346 is a special locomotive. Great history there.

[@alexhajnal107]

Question: Do you know how boiler wall thickness was measured before the invention of ultrasonic tools?

[@Timerman765]

Hey Mark i really hope that the museum will put more narrow gauge track so yall can run More distances . Hopefully.... maybe someday.

[@IdahoRailfan]

I just had to rebuild an odd ho scale model of a C&S narrow gauge loco that is stadard gauge... so anyway, I fixed the brass train up and painted it and modified it for 346! Spark arrestor and all to go with my es&d box cars cars!

[@dwightprzybilla6477]

Please do a video on the calculations!!! Also, I thought for sure that the guitar was going to get tossed in the smoke box...

[@JaydenGreishaw]

This is some good information. Thanks for posting something on this.

[@brenthinshaw8391]

In 1472 Hyce sailed the Kenosha blue Or something like that I didn't pay attention in American history

[@Pamudder]

I would be interested in going into more technical detail. Ultrasonic inspection is relatively new technology. How did you check boiler thickness before? Drill out rivets?

[@Hyce777]

With regular maintenance schedules / boiler replacements and readily-available boiler makers to do the work with visual inspection, there really wasn't regulation nor *need* to do it the way we do now. We do it now because of the age, and relative lack of facilities and folks to do the work these days. When 346 left the railroad, her boiler was about 30 years old - 2 of these service periods. It's now 110.

[@TX-biker]

Love the repair / rebuild info

[@rustywidget]

Great info as usual, thanks. In the UK we test tration engines every 10 years, we hydraulic to 1.5 x max working pressure. What do you guys test to?

[@TheSmokyMountain1495]

“15 years before the stack… *Will ye serve?”*

[@pikablob]

Random question but talking about maintenance and overhauls - do y’all ever have issues with uneven wear on the wheels from always running the same direction around a fairly tight circle of track?

[@royreynolds108]

The D&RGW put a similar patch on 464s boiler although the boiler was from 465.

[@paulzeigler7616]

Another Outstanding video. Well done.

[@YardLimit]

Great stuff, Mark!

[@QuorkQTar]

Interesting insight, as always, thanks

[@Texasrailfan89]

Do you think you can make a video on all the whistles yall have and what they are called and what they sound like and came from

[@LoveShaysloco]

dude i would love to hear you talk to the guys at cass west virginia about there steam locomotives

[@Bmwcolorado]

You ever going to put plow in front of 491 think it look really good with one?

[@jsjinc.8949]

I know at least id like to see all the math that goes into the safety factor

[@RailrunnerRHS]

If I take Boiler Math 101, can I submit it for PDH credits? :D Either way would love to learn more about the calculations.

[@daniellewis1789]

Would there have been FRA mandated inspections to the same extent in the late steam era for revenue service?

[@andrewadams3894]

In the steam era, steam locomotives were regulated by the Locomotive Inspection Bureau of the Interstate Commerce Commission. The FRA was formed when the Department of Transportation was created in the mid '60s. That said, the FRA adopted the ICC's rules for steam locomotives and didn't change them until the late '90s. The old regulations required visual inspection of the interior of the boiler shell after 48 calendar months of operation. Practically, this meant removal of the boiler tubes. There was no such thing as ultrasonic thickness testing. Note that timing was by calendar months. One day of operation in a calendar month meant a full boiler washout and monthly inspection was required before the locomotive could be run again. This was burdensome for occasional museum and tourist railroad operators. The newer operating day-based rules make a lot more sense for modern operations.

[@johnjornod6429]

Measuring the thickness makes a lot of sense. But how did they do it back in the day. I would assume ultrasound didn't exist back then.

[@Johndoe-jd]

A form 4 is a lot better than a I-D10-T form.

[@TheOneTrueDragonKing]

Extremely true. An I-D10-T form is what some unlucky sod has to fill out for you after you go boom with your choo-choo!

[@andrewframe8046]

I've only known of the clock starting to tick once the first tube is in the boiler. Where'd the "first fire" thing come from?

[@Hyce777]

The CFR. First service day starts the clock, unless I've misread it.

[@adiamondforever7890]

As a steam engineer, marine, water tube boiler inspections run a bit different, the cfr’s are applied from the year built. Boilers hydroed at the percentage required by time since last done (1, 5, or). Retubing is not done by the clock as chemical treatment should keep it good, but by tube failure rate, area of failure. In a D boiler, generating tubes, when done, are usually in a block, as all the outside tubes have to be removed to get to the inside tubes, so the block isn’t replaced until say 10% of the block has failed. Air heater and economizer tubes are generally straight so that doesn’t apply. Tubes are. Lien every 12 hrs at sea, so external corrosion is minimized. Does only the current cfr’s apply to your engines, or is it based on the year the boiler is built? Have fun

[@timothystamm3200]

Were there even CFRs as far back as 1882, the original date this locomotive is from? I know the ICC was the first real regulator of the railroads, and then later, you had the NTSB as well. I don't think they existed in 1882. Edit I looked and the ICC came into existence in 1887, while the NTSB has existed since 1926. Some ICC competencies were handed over to the new FRA in 1966 after the establishment of the current structure of the U.S. Department of Transportation. Also, the Federal Register only dates to 1935 and the Code of Federal Regulations to 1938. I don't know if anything besides industry standards existed fir railroads in 1882 and if they would have to back date to say Baldwin Locomotive Works' best practices from 1882.

[@adiamondforever7890]

CFR’s were first published in 1938, but where they came from go much further back. Federal boiler safety goes way back, but to tell the truth, I don’t know when pressure vessels first required inspection. Have fun

[@ModitRC]

I'd like to see the calculations! Great video.

[@AJtheRatty]

Professor Hyce, if you do a video on some of the math please please please pull out a chalk board to teach us lecture style :D

[@Lectrikfro]

Out of curiosity, how did they measure the boiler thickness before Ultrasound? I would have to imagine some specialized tools

[@castkerosene5377]

Are NRA calculations based on NBIC? I don't do locomotives, but help out some with locomotive style farm traction engines. In our jurisdiction, we ultrasound every 5 years (may be changing soon for some engines).

[@swosheeplays9453]

I would love a video on all the maths ang engineering that go into recertification and the likes

[@ericemmons3040]

So, is 1472 a logical or reasonable number of days, or 15 years, before inspection and/or rebuild must occur? Any reason for those numbers? Why not 1500 days/20 years, for example, or some other numbers? Are 1472 and 15 some numbers that FRA just pulled out of a hat, or is there a good reason for those numbers? Does it have anything to do with maintenance time intervals for steam locomotives on major railroads during the steam era?

[@happyhome41]

Cogent explanation. Thank you.

[@Biker_Gremling]

Hyce, my biggest question about boilers is how are the flues held in place and sealed.

[@seymoarsalvage]

The ends are rolled over, kind of a "press fit" for a lack of better term. Once welding tech got better, they were/are welded in place.

[@tobyradabaugh5033]

What engineering things did they find that made them de-rate 491 boiler pressure

[@genevarailfan3909]

Do they have larger ultrasound machines for testing larger engines, or do they have to test them manually one spot at a time as well?

[@Physigist]

Something tells me the YtPs are fonna be really good after this 😂

[@FuelFire]

Is there a reason why the Class 70s were built with the main rod connected to the second axle instead of the third? We know that they tend to waddle because of that.

[@bdvids7930]

Amazing

[@coreybonsall]

Does the ultrasound detect just the parent steel thickness, or does it also pick up any rust or scale thickness on the inside? Or is cleaning to bare steel on the inside part of the process?

[@Hyce777]

It's specific to the material - it does not detect scale or anything else. Not even two steel sheets that are caulked together or overlapping. As soon as there's a "boundary", it returns home.

[@kfcgaming4891]

Hey hyce I have a question about 491 the pressure gauge goes all the way to 400 so does that mean you can run at 200 or 250. And as a porter locomotive like does they need annual. Love the video

[@andrewreynolds4949]

The locomotive can only be run at the pressure the boiler is rated for, so 200psi (or less depending on condition) at most for 491. The pressure gauges on steam locomotives usually go much higher than the locomotive is rated for. The 1472 inspection applies to all steam locomotives, including small industrial locomotives.

[@socialite1283]

Double the boiler pressure is a 3dB increase in pressure. quadruple the pressure is a 6dB increase in pressure.

[@Hyce777]

...well, yes? lol, never thought of it that way but I think those units do work out.

[@akaBoG]

Let's GO!