Hyundai SantaFe With A Battery Draw....Again?

[@SouthMainAuto]

The good news is the new relay from Napa showed up the next day and it works perfect. Both sides of the relay (87 & 87) turn on and off at the same time and the car no longer has a draw. Somewhere someone tied those two circuits together though. However, the customer claims the car has not been to anywhere, but the facts are the facts, and we know that is not true. Needless to say, I double checked to make sure each circuit is still fuse protected independently and they are, so I left the whole mess alone. On to the next one! -Eric O.

[@danlemke6407]

Oh damn, spoiler alert, no part 3. I should've read this before posting, but I like to post before my thoughts evaporate, which seems to happen a lot quicker these days. Anyways, you kinda spoiled the thriller ending. BTW, get a laser printer, even a colored one for most of your printing needs and you will end most of your ink issues. Yes, they cost more. Thx for packin us around and givin us the scoop.

[@user-mv5bu2kk8b]

Silly when someone bodgresa job to let someone else fix Good stuff Eric

[@glenjamindle]

Flush that toilet and SHIP IT

[@steveholmgren823]

@@SouthMainAuto sanctum? Damn near wrecked him.

[@Guust_Flater]

Now it working better than factory....Now both 87 contacts draw each half of the total current, say 2 times 7A (=14A) instead of 1 contact doing 10A and the other one 4A, also totalling 14A. 😂 Less chance that the "10A" contact one burns in. Now, both are sharing the load.😂😂 😉

[@Chris-se8fi]

Looked at the video from 9 months ago and your right that relay back then was white in color not black , love your diagnosis and how you double check yourself and your process , man i wish i had a mechanic like you close by , love this channel

[@Tom-BXR300]

Oh, I didn't see this. I just wrote the same thing. (sort of).

[@eldee9242]

also that taped up wire(s) he mentioned don't appear to be there in the previous video, so something was added or fiddled with maybe.

[@wallebo]

Same here. Well said.

[@splatmanhooha4264]

yep, spotted that as well, relay had a wiring diagram on it so definitely someone has messed with it

[@jumpinjojo]

*You’re, not your.

[@54people]

The thumbnail of your original video on this car clearly shows a different relay in that spot. Someone was definitely there after you, looks like they fixed it until it was more broken. I totally understand that feeling when you just gotta know how something is working when it clearly shouldn’t. Great diagnosis, as always 👍

[@tomoakhill8825]

The thumbnail shows the white Hyundai relay as shown in this video on Eric's computer screen. It stands out vividly, and is clearly _not_ the black one seen in this video.

[@54people]

@ yeah, that’s exactly what I said

[@craigmcnultyakadj-cnice268]

Super funny before I even read the comments I went back and looked at the other video and saw that it was a shiny white relay not the one that he pulled out

[@t5ruxlee210]

“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.” lol

[@truthsmiles]

Crazy to me the owner claims no one else has touched it (see Eric’s pinned comment)

[@lloydprunier4415]

First time to see that 87/87 relay. 80 years and still learning. Thanks!

[@fredsalter1915]

Same here!

[@lint2023]

And, the mfgr incorrectly labeled one pin as 87A. They should have both been 87. Shame on them.

[@franklincormorant8312]

Yep, today I learned the importance of paying close attention to the pin numbers of the relays. I could have easily made that same mistake in the past.

[@odin-eliottodinson7330]

87/87 relays are also called a 87b relay. Plenty of them around.

[@harrywalker5836]

i get confused with red & black.. back in 70,s. id fit relays for spots ect. no prob. now i have to have diag & do slowly, . 67. sik of learning tech sht.. ausie..

[@cliffyb5896]

Not only is there a different relay in the original video, the wiring harness has the original hyundai wrap instead of the electrical tape shown in this video. And I learned a little bit about relays today.👍

[@ferrumignis]

Well that proves the customer is being less then honest, unless someone else has been using and abusing the car and not telling them.

[@gregdrew874]

@@ferrumignis Wrong, ew. Blame the customer ? The car was in other shops since the last time Eric worked on it, trying to fix the drain issue. The customer would no real idea of what they did, or misdeeded when they had it.

[@ferrumignis]

@ I'm sorry I didn't tailor my post to account for people with reading difficulties. This is going to be hard for you to understand, but the words after "unless" provide a possible exception.

[@jbro779]

I had to go see for myself. It’s pretty cool the act of making a KZbin video provides the evidence that clearly shows that relay has been changed between that fix 8 months ago and now.

[@SouthMainAuto]

No more wondering 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@jeppsters1905]

I never thought i would see a Volvo at SMA. Warms my heart. Greatings from Sweden 😊

[@gcrauwels941]

I have an '07 V70R and an '09 S60. We love them.

[@stevemccauley5734]

What are you even going on about? It’s a Hyundai. Not a Volvo lmao

[@MookieMan1]

@@stevemccauley5734there is a Volvo XC70 on the lift next to the Hyundai you donut.

[@TheWhale45]

Why are Volvos such crap in the Snow.

[@MookieMan1]

@@TheWhale45 they aren’t. People use the wrong tires. A RWD car with snow tires can do fine and a AWD Volvo with summer tires or bald tires won’t.

[@litigiousfeline]

This guy has the best job security. He's straightup flirting with the HR lady!

[@oscarsosa1390]

Eric, you had me cracking up so much with your comment, " somebody had there beaters in here" Your one in a million, thanks for all your hard work. Take care

[@janetcoursey6756]

Thanks for the follow-up in the comments! I was afraid I would never know the ending. Thanks for yet another fun ride.

[@databeestje]

Mrs O has the right attitude, it's broken, so no harm in trying to fix it. They'll try to sell you another new tank either way. Especially when things are out of warranty, you have even less to lose.

[@jtderby]

How is Eric not over 1 million subs yet? Tell your friends. Let’s get him his gold KZbin plaque!

[@jacojanks5985]

I would call that relay a normally open double pole single throw relay. Dpst. Awesome video. I am a HVAC tech. I watch your videos because Your electrical diagnostic skills can also be applied to HVAC service. So thanks keep up the good work.

[@AlAmantea]

There are basically 3 types of relays: SPST, Single pole single throw, one action, one result. ON, terminals make contact to energize one circuit. OFF, terminals disconnect. DPDT, Double pole double throw, 2 actions, 2 results. ON, terminals make contact to energize one circuit, OFF, terminals connect to energize one other circuit. DPST, Double pole single throw, 2 actions, 1 result. ON, terminals make contact to energize 2 circuits from one feed. OFF, terminals disconnect. Same theory of operation for different switches. Fantastic find, Eric. Most techs would have missed this completely and not investigated the relay. Whoever did that to the relay probably thought they were only connecting the two outputs to tie them together, but they actually made them live in BOTH conditions. they likely didn't check the circuits when the car was KOEO. The very definition of knowing enough to be dangerous. Most likely the reason for the DPST relay is because the amperage of the relay can't handle the load on a single pin, so it's split between two pins to share the load. Most relays can only handle a max of 30 amps, and that fusible link is 40A. Longevity is the reason for the DPST relay, even though a SPST relay will work for a short period of time. While the two circuits are independent, it's only on the output side of the relay that they are independent. They are fed from the same source, so when the relay is in place they are tied together. When the relay is out, they are independent. Again, it's for amperage rating and longevity.

[@wirefeed3419]

Looking at the wiring diagram (if you can trust it) the factory engine control relay is a Single Pole Double throw (SPDT) relay with Normally open contacts . When the relay coil is energized the relay closes the two open poles thus allowing power to come from the 40 amp fuse through the switched legs out the 2 separate poles.

[@ferrumignis]

_"DPDT, Double pole double throw, 2 actions, 2 results. ON, terminals make contact to energize one circuit, OFF, terminals connect to energize one other circuit."_ This isn't correct, if it has two poles it has two circuits. You are describing a single pole double throw, SPDT. The Hyundai relay is a DPST with one side of the contacts commoned.

[@woolval52]

I just watched this today, 1-27-25. I'm jonsing to see how it behaves with the correct relay, but I'm expecting it to behave the same. I'm sure, if you took apart that tape on the wires, you'd find someone spliced those two wires together. But I can understand leaving it alone if it works! I love how you approach issues and take the time to understand HOW it works before plowing forward with parts. Eric, don't sell yourself short... you are a rare breed of mechanic. LOL, you could never work in a dealership, you are too smart!

[@PhillipBailey]

I had this conversation with my students about a relay with two 87 pins. They are also used in some am light circuits use this type of relay. Power in 30 and out to both lights. Great video

[@SouthMainAuto]

It is my first time running across one. I have likely encountered them just never seen an issue with them.

[@garykirk1968]

Run into this with some of the European manufactured equipment I have the "privilege" of working on time to time.. Screws even the most "schooled" of been to this or that education system DIAG Eelekchiken..

[@garykirk1968]

Hamm, Dynapac, and Bomag roller/compactors are really fun to deal with, especially with the 24v systems.

[@harrywalker5836]

shouldnt a split relay, have different draws, hence 2 curcuits..???. seems a cheap way of elliminating a relay. plus, if one powers 2, curcuits, & blows a fuse, then you have more sht to go thru.. dmb ausie here..

[@davidmcclain5180]

Holy crap, I don't think I've ever seen a dual throw 5 pin relay until now. Or like you said, that style of relay might have been used on the vehicle I was working on and I just didn't know. Regardless, this was a terrific video and I learned something as usual. Thank you very much!

[@rocketscientist007]

I've never seen one either. If it was a late 80's or early 90's Ford Mustang, they decided no relay was needed at all for the headlamp circuit and didn't use a heavier gauge supply wire than any of the others. They had a TSB but no recall. Likely the Chief Engineer who signed off was mechanical not electrical.

[@SouthMainAuto]

It’s my first time running across one of those dual throw relays too.

[@ferrumignis]

It's a double _pole_ , single throw relay (with one side of the contacts commoned together). Don't mix your poles and your throws, you might offend a Polish person 😀

[@ram50v8]

So the correct relay is a DPST with common single feed and some one installed a SPDT. Gotta love that! As for the circuits being powered due to the "beaters" splicing, depends on where they made the splice. If they made it before the individual loads fuses - then not really a problem (as long as you note your diagnosis) But if they made the splice junction after the fuse, well now you have a big potential problem. Because now you have a fuse protected circuit at 20 A may now have 40 A serving it, this could end badly down the road. Getting back to comment about service information lacking, I feel your pain Eric,,,, I feel your pain!

[@spelunkerd]

Yes, I was going to say the same thing. The OEM relay is not a double throw relay because when relay is off current goes nowhere, there's nothing hooked to that side. It's a double POLE, single throw relay with the unique feature being common feed to the two poles tied upstream at pin 30. Swap that for a standard SPDT and you've got power going to one arm with key off, where 87a connects. As Eric points out, the mystery doesn't end there because of what he found when relay was completely removed. I like the theory that instead of realizing what was happening, another mechanic jury rigged a downstream connection, not understanding that the wrong relay would also cause a parasitic drain. Hopefully he did that upstream of the fuses. That other mechanic might have noticed that the other arm was not powered up with key on, which might have thrown all kinds of diagnostic codes if the car ran at all. Maybe he thought the problem was in the fuse box rather than the simple explanation of wrong relay.

[@ram50v8]

@@spelunkerd Absolutely! My guess is that by fixing the original problem (relay) the wrong relay was installed and the mental connection did not register so the next fix was to meld the 2 circuits together. I have seen something like that many times over the years. As we both noted, lets hope the joined connection is before the individual circuit fuses and not after.

[@ablackformula]

Consider the problem Eric O found - the relay was stuck closed at all times. The original, double pole relay, split the load going through the relay into two poles (both fed from the same main 40a fused supply.) The fact the relay was replaced with a single pole relay (probably rated for 30a,) and the two loads tied together at the output, now put that entire 40a fused load through the now single relay load path. I suspect that's what made the relay fail. I don't suspect the downstream circuits have any loss of protection, just now the relay load path is all forced through one path not rated for it.

[@spelunkerd]

@@ablackformula The fact that branches were fused downstream gave the false impression that the relay had failed, but the story is more complex. That incorrect single pole double throw relay when functioning normally offered a pathway through 87a when the key was off, and through 87 when key was on. So, although it looked like the relay was bad, it wasn't bad and it didn't fail. It simply didn't belong where it was being used.

[@ablackformula]

@spelunkerd ahhh true! Thank you for correcting me.

[@larrysmith8406]

always a pain to try to figure out someone else's screw up. good job at thinking it out.

[@Gadgetstoolbox]

This is my kind of shop class. Learned that relays are different and I need to get some better understanding. This is why I watch SMA, Pine Hollow, and Rainman Rays to name a few.

[@bigclivedotcom]

I wonder if it was a manufacturing option where the same base was used for multiple configurations with maybe a link between those two contacts as an option. But then again, the two circuits coming from it would make that a weird thing to do. It does hint at someone bridging them because of an issue they caused by using a changeover relay. If it's an ecotank printer, a full waste ink reservoir would stop everything working. Depending on the model the new easy-change ones are chipped so it knows it's been changed. On the older models you need to buy a sneaky reset key online. There are also non-manufacturer-approved ways of cleaning very clogged print heads involving low lint kitchen wipes and glass cleaner. There are videos of that on KZbin.

[@pepperpepperpepper]

What an honor to mingle with the smart people of the internet. Why are you up so early?

[@SouthMainAuto]

We had that printer for many years. Actually surprised it later this long 😂. Vanessa bought another one to replace it. After reading comments I guess we should have went with the colored laser printer. Next time 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@bigclivedotcom]

@@pepperpepperpepper You mean "why am I up so late...."

[@LawrenceRudolph-up1tt]

@@SouthMainAuto Brother makes a cheap laser printer (black & white) ink jets suck.

[@whataboutbob9786]

Now I read your comments with your accent in mind. Self induced ASMR🤔

[@todaysproject6788]

Someone did a whole bunch of extra work to avoid replacing the relay with the correct one. Maybe they were in a pinch and couldn't get one? I bet that story would be an interesting one to hear. Thanks for the video!

[@rainerrieck6596]

If ever I have to change something from how it was, I leave a note in the glove box and the fuse box eg. loom splice due to green crusties, no connector available on back order.

[@craigyarmulasr1845]

Thanks for the video. This has been so informative for me. I have saved every fuse and relay from every car I have donated to the fire department. I have never thought that the relays could look the same but be different. Thanks again for explaining the processes you go through.

[@SouthMainAuto]

Yup they sure can look alike but be very different!

[@greggc8088]

Scotty Kilmer says "you're stupid if you stick a Dodge relay in your car" (while waving his hands frantically). 🤣🤣

[@tdotw77]

He's such a clown, can't stand that @$s hat

[@rodneymiddleton9624]

Other hacks really make our jobs so difficult. Crossed wiring and missing stuff is frustrating! Thanks Eric!

[@donniev8181]

Like the behind the scenes thought process! Very informative! Especially the internet mathematics! "What did we start out making this video for?" as you're grabbing your test light, absolutely hilarious!

[@ronbrinkman1717]

Talk about confusion when someone else has touched the car , good figuring again 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@carlburr1462]

"What in the THUNDER is going on here"!! Awesome catch man.

[@W62315]

You should definitely get a color laser printer. No going back afterwards, fast and reliable. Reasonably priced nowadays too, I recommend something like a Brother HL-3220CDW also, quite the gaming rig for Mrs. O!

[@RagnarokCo]

Agreed, stay away from HP and look into refillable toner or at least a model that accepts third party toners.

[@SamA-bi4ly]

Second Brother color lasers. Have a 13 yr old MFC-9330CDW, never had an issue, will accept 3rd party toner if needed.

[@MrAmorti]

+1 more. Inkjet is junk, especially the "razor blade" philosophy of buying the proprietary cartridges.

[@Sicktrickintuner]

Bought a laser printer, best thing ever to do , inkjet are ok, but never last and always plug when not used often or cleaned

[@JohnDoe-bm2nu]

Can confirm, ditch the ink jet printer, waste of money. Go try a black and white or color Brother laser printer.

[@Wrenchingdaily]

Wish SMA was a bit closer to my home. I live about 450 miles away but would consider the drive if my vehicle would make the trip when it needs servicing. Every time my wife hears your voice Eric, she always says are you watching your boyfriend again lol. Great work Eric as usual

[@jameskane319]

I'm halfway across the country, and feel the same way. He's the most trusted mechanic in my book. 👍

[@pepperpepperpepper]

@@jameskane319 I'm completely across the country, and he's MY boyfriend, so hands off!

[@roberthutson2023]

Hey Eric, so its really funny as I am watching this video, this was actually a test we had to do in Transit when we get promoted to mechanic or if you come in brand new, in the training school our electrical superintendent or the instructor lol. He actually used this example for a test, so he replaced the relay with a different relay so that the power would stay on the entire time, we had to diagnose why there was battery draw and why it was killing the battery. So we had to go into the electrical system and test and figure out what was going on, and the issue was exactly that a wrong relay which kept power on and when one of our guys pulled the relay he actually went and grabbed another relay of the exact style and we continued to have the issue, and it stumped everyone in the class not understanding what else could be the issue and when I checked the entire wiring diagram I saw exactly that, it should be switched off when the ignition is off and switched on only when the ignition is on, so I checked the relay number against the wiring diagram and bang figured that issue out right away. It was fun to learn these types of things because they not only apply in this situation but also can apply in a real life situation such as your video. It's crazy how many "Mechanics" would mess this up by putting the wrong relay in, so yeah definitely shame on whoever did that. I love your video's thank you so much for them all!

[@romanstingler435]

Nothing better than an ice cream and a new episode of SMA

[@anthonycox9470]

Don't worry Eric, we know you don't load the parts cannon. Even your 'guesses' are more educated than most people's full diag.

[@ronaldbrosius7488]

Great video as always, I don't think I've ever seen a relay like that!

[@jcatfl]

It was fun to watch Eric get excited during this diagnosis. Like a hound caught the scent of the fox.

[@ItSnowsHere2]

Thank you for showing us an example of a work around that has existed since they started putting the fancy little boxes in our cars❤ Sometimes, all we think about is, there's no place like home, we will deal with it if we ever get there.

[@jsj297]

This is your one stop shop for all your double donger troubleshooting needs!

[@arthurjock4179]

We need part two!

[@TheDaisyraven]

Another master class on how cars get screwed without anyone knowing how it happened.

[@94jimmy5]

Your knowlege of how it is supposed to work is amazing. If you don't know that, leave it alone. Hard fixing someone else's " repair". Kudo's as usual Mr. O.

[@robertlacob8831]

I love when customers lie to you and tell you to fix the problem and then you find out someone messed with a bunch of things! That takes some big balls!

[@BV-Auto]

Just worked on a Hyundai Genesis Equus earlier today. Instrument Cluster was completely black. She thought she needed a new one and ordered it for me to install. Fortunately it was an easy fix I just reset the memory 30 amp fuse. Cheers 🍺

[@garysgarage3669]

I'm sure I will never see this issue in my remaining lifetime, but it is still very interesting and educational. Thank you.

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

Great diagnostic, Eric! My view is that, somewhere along the line, someone replaced the relay but didn't have one with double-throw contacts and tied the two circuits together. This would probably overload that single contact (otherwise, factory wouldn't use a dual contact). Now, with the correct relay, it doesn't make any diference, as curent can go through two contacts again.

[@maureenheasman5897]

Morning Eric. Customers fibbing and Idiots swopping relays can be a real problem. I had a Ford street Ka lux with a removable hard top. The heated rear glass did not work. Eventually I found inside the hard top roof area a relay was swopped out and replaced with the wrong type. It needed a timed delay, double throw type. According to Ford was unique to this application. When you depress the on switch. It triggers the relay timer. The other contact closes for power to the element. After 8 mins. The timer releases the power contacts. Luv always x

[@oldmuscle8156]

Great video as always! Went back and rewatched your video from 8 months ago. Somebody definitely swapped relays after you worked it. Love the troubleshooting vids!

[@scottzehrung4829]

When I started off at my first dirt assignment after a year in school one of the sergeants came up and handed me the largest flat bladed screwdriver and said this is a “one level” you can work on anything it fits. As time went on you were allowed smaller tools to utilize working up to a “seven level” in the field which was a plastic tuning wand with the metal inserts. In electronics you could do the most good or bad with the smallest of tools. Component level diagnostics were required. Mr. O hands out the tuning wands…

[@dericn]

I'm thinking that after the last 'mechanic' replaced the original 87-87 relay with the 87-87a, they didn't understand why the circuit on 87a lost power with the key on, so they 'fixed' it by jumpering them together downstream of the relay. Weird that Hyundai used that 87-87 relay though. All the power still needs to flow through terminal 30, so it's not really increasing the current rating. They must want to isolate the 87 and 87a circuits when the key is off. Maybe there's some backfeed issue?

[@peterhodgkins6985]

That'd be my guess...

[@bluegrallis]

ANd he or she, probably think they fixed it , because it worked for the time it was in their shop.

[@craigs5212]

Yup that's what I think as well. I replaced the relay but now some sensors don't work any more, screw it just jumper the two together and get it out of here.

[@Averna222]

I think the bottleneck in the relay isn't the terminals themselves, but the contacts. The contacts can only handle so much current, so this was their way of using 1 relay as functionally 2 relays.

[@zekezeke3484]

I think that the main issue is the contacts in the relay, making them large enough to carry enough current for two loads would necessitate making them heavier, thereby requiring changes to the mechanical operation of the relay, potentially increasing its size, etc....complexity

[@michaeldurling793]

Things like this make my head explode, good thing there's guys like you that can think through it and make sense of it so guys like me can relax knowing Eric's got this.

[@bearing_aficionado]

Happy Friday, SMA!🍻

[@sicily6740]

Eric, this video proves I'm right. I'm not ever touching anything under the hood again except to check fluid levels.

[@phildegruy9295]

The relay that was in there was a Single Pole Single Throw (SPST) relay. The "87" is the normally open contact and the "87a" is the normally closed contact. When the relay is not activated, the circuit is connected to "87a" and when activated, it switches to the "87" terminal. The "87" "87b" is a Dual Make SPST with two normally open terminals 87 and 87b. The Dual make SPST relays are used to power two circuits at the same time that are normally isolated from each other as shown in the diagrams. Either relay will fit but only one will work properly.

[@SamMiller-x4f]

Thanks for taking us along with you ❤

[@robbrobb2161]

Excellent follow through. Thank you. Pays to know what you are doing. Often times, Divine inspiration. Thank You Jesus

[@larrywg54]

Watch your videos. We don't have many like You. Great job buddy.

[@Tevildo]

A couple of points from an electronics perspective: 1. The reason the 87-87 style of relay is used is so that the current is split between the relay contacts. The terminals are probably rated at 40 A, but the actual contacts will have a lower rating. 2. The disadvantage of the current (hacked) configuration is, if you get a short, it'll blow all three fuses, not just the one on the circuit that's faulty. This isn't a safety issue, it'll just make it slightly more difficult to diagnose.

[@Discretesignals]

I think you nailed it. Too much load on one set of contacts. Probably why the other 87a relay failed and welded its contact together. Wouldn't doubt this comes back in the future.

[@smijas]

Why don't they design two independant relay's ?? Less confusing, less everything, standard parts, yes, one-more-part, and the space and wiring for one more relay,... but I see more negatives than positivs,....

[@moddedta]

@Discretesignals It did not weld itself together. It was on the dead pin in the powered off state. But because of wherever they put the jumper, it powered the circuits from the other pin that would be hot in the deenergized state.

[@JohnG-is7eg]

You’d think they wouldn’t make that oddball relay be able to fit in a run of the mill Bosch style relay socket. Good detective work as always, Eric

[@michaelhart7841]

Great diag... very few would have caught that ... great channel as always 👍

[@JamesAgans]

Eric, you are remarkable. Finding a problem after someone else installs the wrong relay is as good as it gets.

[@rhysarthur7305]

Oh! We got to see Eric O's "Inner Sanctum" ie; "The Office" where ALL the creativity takes place! Where's the Brake Clean Bell???

[@jamesspash5561]

This time of year with the super cold here in upstate NY, Iv'e run across many battery/alternator changed by others with the same battery goes dead issue.However, you discover the customer only drives 3 miles to work and back. Not enough recharge time for that cold battery. I have fixed many by just giving that poor battery a pep up charge.

[@danrascal4045]

So, the previous repair by someone else was "install whatever relay you have and change wiring to match it"? Great video!

[@garyfoster738]

Retired from the automotive scene in 2019. Never underestimate an idiot with some electrical tape and a knife. Some of my best horror stories on cars have been a result of their meddling. Some of my best horror stories have been the result of trying to undo what some backwood in reds have done. Always remember we have to have these idiots in the world because where would we get our stories from and who would be talking about

[@hickorystx]

I was on the edge of my seat for the entire video with my head spinning. Most impressive on your thought process and diagnostics, as usual. Good work. Electrical issues for the most part are not my favorite repair jobs. I don't have the equipment as you do or the extreme knowledge. Perhaps in my next life I will be an electrical engineer!!!! 🦉

[@pepperpepperpepper]

I understand less than half of it, and still find the analysis fascinating. Often he explains it so well that I do get it, as a complete armchair mechanic. It's like watching Big Clive explain electronics. He's in the comments, by the way.

[@chrisanderson4799]

Look at your original video Eric where you fixed the ground. I believe it was a different relay in there. They tied the Loads together is my guess to get it to work since they were using a 87/87A relay, not the proper 87/87. They probably thought the fuse box had pulled a General Motors move and corroded up and had a bad spot in it not allowing power to flow as it should. That’s why they just tied the two wires together, downstream . Just put in an external relay in the box using short jumpers off each spot. Leave a note in the Fuse Box for the next guy unlike the Dingus who hacked it up! Edit: Now that I think of it you could overload a wire. Better to get the right relay and take it back to OEM.

[@philhalt9527]

I wonder if it will be back in 8 months because the contacts weld together due to the added load on one side of the relay. The good news is that Eric will already know what is wrong with it.

[@joesilverbliss1721]

Eric. Relay contacts have a make and break current rating. Sometimes engineers will split the circuit between the two contacts to stay within the contact ratings. This is also important if any of the loads have capacitors or incandescent light bulbs which cause a large current spike when the contacts close. The current switched can also reduce the life of the contacts. Depending on the loads, it can be a good idea to split the load circuit becase you cannot always count on the dual contact poles closing at exactly the same time (within milliseconds of each other) where all the funny stuff happens. One contact could take all of the load for a split second degrading its life. There is also contact bounce but that is a little deeper consideration. Great Video

[@Vincent_Sullivan]

Exactly correct! I made a similar comment elsewhere in this thread but you actually explained it better...

[@PhillipBailey]

You could put a standard 4 pin relay in it

[@SouthMainAuto]

Oh yeah at this point I could. You are correct!

[@paulmeade9103]

I guess my concern would be if the wires are tied together after the fuse, you might have a wire that's only rated for 15a tied to a 20a fused circuit . Witch could be a fire hazard. Awesome diag as usual!

[@harrywalker5836]

EXCACTLY WHAT I SAID, & I KNOW SHT.. ausie.. dpst relay, seems a way to have 1 relay do 2 jobs, but then, your fuses blow & twice the pain to konw whats wrong..where..

[@deepsquat600]

54 minutes for lunch? Wow the guy you work for must be awesome

[@70fastback94]

@@deepsquat600 when you read this you say to yourself...ohhhh yeah! He doesn't work for a guy. You'll see HER at 21:32 hahaha!

[@MadMike-n5c]

Great troubleshooting story, thanks for bringing us along!

[@spirokattan3655]

Not sure if I missed it... Would have been interesting to see if the other 87 terminal powered up when Eric jumpered at the fuse box. Always fun to watch Eric 👍

[@wwdiesel]

I agree. I thought of this too while watching the video. When he jumpered 30 to one of the 87 legs in the relay plug, did the other 87 also become powered. If so, it would have proved that both legs of the 87 pins were connected together somewhere.

[@willemstreutgers1154]

from 31:20 on he proved always either 87 is on with the switching 87/87a relai due to the connect made outside the fuse box

[@peterhodgkins6985]

Well done once again. I especially liked the "If I can do it..." part. "Well, some of you can..." ;) I know those little relays have been the cause of a LOT of incorrect assumptions when Shadetree Inc. starts easter-egging relays.

[@chrisanderson4799]

I bought 2 Brother Laser Printers at Walmart. I will never go back to an Ink Jet. Prints fast and aftermarket Toner Packs on Amazon work great for cheap! Have one at our Main House and Lake House

[@rjb6327]

Always nice to see Mrs. O.

[@joeandgod1]

I'm glad Mrs. O didn't do something crazy, not knowing she was being recorded, as she otherwise normally would.

[@1986aml]

Wow this tales me back. About 15 years ago i got caught out with a double 87 relay on a piece of machinery. Great spot Eric.

[@dueljet]

Screw the Hyundai, I want to see the XC70 on the other rack!

[@jimandnena4]

Great video! Even Mrs. O was caught "pulling wrenches" in the kitchen. Once in a while you get a job that feels like running in quicksand.

[@donalbanese7720]

Excellent spot on the 87 and 87A between the two relay types.

[@littleshopintheshed]

SMA in the editing room, very cool. That dude is a Stud!!

[@TheJmich2001]

Nice job Echlin!!! Great customer service. Thx Mr O. My local NAPA is Van Wickle and they are a MAGNIFICENT example of this.

[@mikezeestraten7000]

This is my favorite kind of video, Eric.

[@wwdiesel]

Very good find Eric O! Proved you can't always just stick a like looking relay in place of another just because they are the same size and have the same number of 5 terminals. Must go by part numbers when comparing like size and looking relays. That is why they have part numbers on them and the spades are numbered. Somebody set this trap up for failure and you were smart enough to catch it. Thank goodness for wiring diagrams or you would have never knew about the double 87 relay.

[@Sandbag1300]

Very valuable video. About half the population purchases used cars. These vehicles are being sold for a reason. Something exactly like this may be one reason.

[@mattdelnegro565]

Awesome. Love stuff like this. I just fixed a car with 78 miles on it, missing fuse for the wipers and the same rating spare was also missing. There is a place where all the automotive gremlin answers live, but we'll never find it.

[@tosh9120]

Good find. I know it’s not correct, but you could have fitted a standard 4 pin relay just to test if circuits were tied together. Thanks once again for sharing your day and keep up the great videos. 👍

[@Chairman750]

Okay, If that relay is powering both circuits, then you should be able to control those circuits with a 4 pin relay as long as the power, ground, and control pins match the fuse box wiring. I believe that the pins on that 5 pin relay do not have the same configuration as the original factory one. I had problems similar to what you are finding on some of the BMW's I used to work on. Great diagnostic work. Thanks.

[@jhimmelberger5371]

Your too humble. That was far from elementary. I am amazed by your aptitude.

[@mejesse809]

Ivan must have had his hands on that relay!!! Mrs. "O"

[@gregorythomas333]

I really love your diagnostic & deductive reasoning processes...it would have taken me a long time to figure this problem out. @20:20 Peekaboo!

[@johnbeckett2624]

What they did would have worked if they had used a four pin relay, there would have been no fifth pin to keep the other sensor circuit live so no current draw. There must be a reason why Hyundai use a double pole relay in the first place so I guess sooner or later something would have failed!! Glad you got there in the end, as half way through I was shouting at you Eric, It SHOULDN'T WORK I even paused the video to look at comments to see if anyone else had spotted it, then watched the rest and then you tumbled it. Thanks for a great video!! but then I enjoy all of your postings I take away something from every one.

[@ianrichardson9200]

You are brilliant Mr O!!!!!!

[@alexandercahoulan6583]

This channel never fails to A: teach me something new (Eric is my Jedi Master though he doesn’t know it); B: make my brain connect on all cylinders; C: help me forget about life for the length of the video. It’s crucial to my and many others existence. You just need to accept this Eric and give yourself a pat on the back.

[@tdotw77]

Nice job Eric. I love how you verify your work and make sure its all 100% correct! I recognized that Hyundai by that gcustom Napa ground cable you installed on the shock tower right by the fuse box. Yeah someone was definitely meddling around in that electrical system clearly evident by the hack tape job on the wires in front of fuse box. Ink jet prinnters are s pia, maybe its time for a lazer printer - its a business expense, treat yourself & Mrs O!

[@GeminiSeven43]

Great video and it does make perfect sense (From a hack perspective) Step 1- Sub par mechanic type finds bad relay and replaces it with one that has the same number of terminals because Hey there cant be anything different if it has the same number of terminals ....right? Step 2- Same or different sub par mechanic now has to fix problem of car not starting and/or having many trouble codes and finds no power to part of the circuit and since the relay was just replaced it cant be that and so it must be a broken wire someplace and we just need to tie the two circuits together and fix it/ship it. Step 3 Highly intelligent Jedi Master mechanic (Eric O) troubleshoots system properly and finds the true problem and installs the correct relay and eliminates customer complaint of the power draw and everyone is happy. End of story.

[@kevinsklow3473]

I just spit out my coffee at the blind squirrel comment😂 You’re the man Eric.

[@KarateSensei71]

Every SMA video is awesome, the ones with a Mrs. O. sighting are 123.7% better. Great to see her tearing down high tech equipment, maybe she needs her own channel?

[@jameskane319]

You get paid for the years, not the hours. Nice find, Sherlock! ❤

[@greebo7857]

That's a learning moment, for sure. I'm going to check pin numbers from now on.

[@42Goopy42]

Big fan of how your test light uses those jaws. I'm going to be modifying mine.