I Destroyed a Subscribers Build: My Worst Day Ever

[@jamespollard1670]

An over or under charge could have been the case . I don't believe the brass turned molten . With the way the extractor was bent , I think the pressure pushed the extractor out enough to lodge the brass chunk under it .

[@EagleRun23]

there is no way it went molten right? just soft enough to get crammed down in there probably right.

[@jeffhuntley2921]

Glad you didn’t get hurt. I’ve got some 10rd mags so thanks for the heads up.

[@EagleRun23]

Good stuff

[@Captain-Donut]

But you know I’m the end…. Your a winner. Love from Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@AP2020_Outdoors]

My speculation is that a DOUBLE CHARGE was the cause. I just ran the numbers in Quickloads for H110 and a 300gr SMK. I have suspected this a possibility since I started my own development work with the 8.6 Blackout back in June, 2022. Let this be a lesson to ALL who are doing there own reloading with the 8.6 Blackout. 119, 675psi is not good. And note, the fill % is still under 100% at 96.6% for a 30gr load of H110.

[@constitutionalist4391]

Indeed, that's silly pressure. Of course it can't really be measured as it didn't make it out the end of the barrel...I agree on the double charge. The brass proves it.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Out of battery would have (generally) caused the case to rupture. My guess is overpressure and that can be caused by many factors that you covered well. Glad no one was injured.

[@EagleRun23]

More evaluation to come. Going to strip those loads apart and re weigh everything. I was SO careful as it was my first subsonic load out. No idea how I was double charged or anything like that. Doesn’t make sense to me. But should be?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@EagleRun23 Also re-measure the bullets and their concentric diameter. I doubt that is a possibility, but it only takes 1 oversized or undersized bullet to either not chamber fully or to cause greater pressure to send down the barrel.

[@spysweeper]

Just glad no one is hurt! I also remember from the videos from RCBS as one of the rules of reloading-never use anybody’s reloads in another gun. Most reloads are optimized for your specific gun and you tested it in your specific environment despite making it according to recommended specs or standards.

[@EagleRun23]

It’s a solid rule that I will never break again. Also these were sub sonics and I have the same 8” barrel.

[@constitutionalist4391]

@@EagleRun23 doesn't matter, if you double charged it and give it to someone else his family could possibly hold you liable depending on the state. A good warning to be careful. I've had the Dillon f#@$ up on the primer more often, and don't catch it before dropping powder...that makes a mess with any oil...6.5 Creedmoor is a great round for QTY, the projectiles are way more inexpensive and powder selection is greatly expanded...You can use the same powder with 223/308/6.5cm but it won't work for 8.6bo. And if you're just punching paper the barrel length doesn't matter. Keep it when you go pig hunting...but for all reloads, just try to be more careful.

[@d_k_C_A]

Therapy is what I'm hearing. Lol glad you are ok

[@ChrisFromThe740]

Man that really sucks but I'm glad you are alright.

[@EagleRun23]

never again, that felt horrible.

[@BaronSVG]

This is why I don't shoot someone's reloads in my guns.

[@EagleRun23]

and I never will again! haha

[@Piecemakerfirearms]

Ehh honestly if both parties are aware of the possibilities it’s not that big of a deal in this case. These guns are Lego’s. Some people build legos to see how hard they can push them, some build them in the journey of the hobby. Some buddies would even wait until your good and drunk to convince to to run that 12k motor on nitromethane just to hear that top fuel sound at full blast In your garage…. Either way, if you ain’t blowin shit up, you ain’t havin fun

[@Piecemakerfirearms]

Ehh honestly if both parties are aware of the possibilities it’s not that big of a deal in this case. These guns are Lego’s. Some people build legos to see how hard they can push them, some build them in the journey of the hobby. Some buddies would even wait until your good and drunk to convince to to run that 12k motor on nitromethane just to hear that top fuel sound at full blast In your garage…. Either way, if you ain’t blowin shit up, you ain’t havin fun

[@carlLackey-qk8sd]

EagleRun23 Even under the circumstances, it was great to meet up. The mag was from Mt Southern Tactical, they have some cool stuff, don't know the process Thanks for being a stand up guy, appreciate the coming bolt upgrade, no doubt she will run again.

[@EagleRun23]

Hey!! “Carl, something bad happened” :)

[@jeffhuntley2921]

Just curious if you checked to make sure the projectile didn’t end up hidden in your suppressor baffles or anything weird like that. Glad everyone escaped uninjured

[@CaptainCreampie69]

Bummer. Cheap and easy fix. Hopefully the lugs on the barrel are fine. Might have just been an under charge. I’m an advocate of using as much case capacity as possible to prevent uneven burn and then that allows for better ED/SD numbers since the powder is not laying flat on the bottom. Good luck on the diagnosis.

[@EagleRun23]

I think ill seek a fuller case and try a different powder. CFE BLK looks promising. Have you tried anything?

[@HuntTXhogs]

As if 8.6 blk wasn’t already expensive enough for you … When you loaded those rounds did you check jump to the lands ? Are you a reloader hunting for .002 off the lands for accuracy (in your gun)? Put a load like that in someone else’s gun and you might jam into the lands and create a pressure problem. Glad I wasn’t at Quail Creek that day - I’m glad your ok

[@colejohnson3705]

The primer was damaged during the loading process and it went off when the bolt had it almost all the way into the chamber. I did this before loading .300 blackout. I knew the primer was not right and I thought I would try it anyway. It was identical damage except the magazine was fine.

[@paulhodge855]

That looks like it was not seated properly when fired. A really hot load you would have pierced the primer, case head dented. I reload 6.8 SPC commercially. My gun shot the load great and the brass looked beautiful. My business partner shot it and ruined the brass. The head space in his gun was the original 6.8 SPC and the tolerance was too small for the load. This caused the gun to fire slightly out of battery. Usually the brass would jam and we would have to mortar the brass out. The gun was the issue not the ammo.

[@therevoman]

Gosh Darn! Goes to show how much pressure the AR-10 upper can handle! Super glad no-one was hurt but sad to see there was an issue. Hope you weren't using my load data!

[@afroghair6793]

If there is no barrel obstruction, it was probably a double/over charge as you mentioned. I'm saying way over pressure.

[@matthewstimmel7497]

If you double charge a piece of brass for a test and you don't end up with powder all over the bench, then your load density is way too low. You should be using a powder charge that fills 80% or more of the available case capacity, or you can end up with overpressures from under charges. The flame kernel actually ignites too much powder at the same time instead of lighting it at the rear and burning forward. As fast as modern powder burns, we forget there is still a huge difference between lead styphnate in a primer having a detonation velocity of 5600 meters per second and slower Powders having a detonation velocity of 1000 meter per second.

[@perrytilton5221]

Probably the biggest concern since most 8.6 BO loads that are not with 350gr Maker loads I have found through GRT are in the 50-65% case capacity range.

[@EagleRun23]

ya, and H110 likes to be full, i learned! what powder are you working with?

[@perrytilton5221]

@@EagleRun23 I've messed with SW Blackout and VV N110. So far the best results are 15.2gr of N110 under a 300gr Berger. That runs at 1030 fps and is 1-1.5 MOA. My goal with that is 100% burn from an 8" bolt gun with the Omega 9k. Got some 8" gas gun parts coming in so we will see how well N110 works, though my hopes aren't high since it didn't run my subs in my 300 blackout in any reliable manor.

[@seanknapp9394]

I've had mags not lock in the right spot and push up to high , but never gad a situation like that thank goodness

[@Halfmilesniper]

I had heard about this incident Eagle...glad to find the video. H110, could have been a double charge but I think it was an undercharge. I know H110, at least back in the day, load data always stated NOT to reduce the starting charge by 10% because of detonation. Most load data always advised reducing the start load by 10% and work up but not H110. I use H110 in my 350 Legend and my 300 BLK and always worry if I am starting too low. Been lucky so far...but on the other hand I have gotten too high and had case separation (350L). It does appear that this failure also destroyed the ejector, I didn't see it anywhere among the pile of parts, curious about that. It is always a learning experience.

[@cw2a]

Thats how an AR is "designed" to bleed off gas during a failure like this. CLASSIC EXAMPLE why YOUR safe reloads may not in another. What your talking about is DETONATION. I believe but many experts dont believe. You dint say what powder different powders do different things. Bullet setback or bullet jump is another possibility. If the bullet jumped upon chambering & loged into the rifling. ( I'm assuming its a long bearing surface bullet) that will cause a serious😢 spike in pressures. Dont risk that bolt. Replace. Inspect barrel lugs closely. Might be OK. Safe would be replace bbl. Being its someone elses. I would replace the bolt & barrel for them 100%. Brass flows you ca see how much by how it flowed to fill that bolt head & "over" No it didnt go molten. But you dont understand the pressures that that assembly withstood. Glad no one hurt. Guns can be fixed. 🤟🏽👍🏼🤟🏽🤘🏼

[@inspectorman2018]

That's crazy! Luckily no one got hurt! Sounds like an over pressure to me. Very interested to see what you find!

[@EagleRun23]

Even through these comments, I am seeing over, under and out of battery. most seem to vote for over pressure.

[@johnh4957]

@@EagleRun23 my vote(from no knowledge/experience) is over pressure in battery, supported in chamber with path least resistance (somehow) down the ejector channel and out the extractor parts(why primer isn't totally blown(looks flattened though) I don't know. My gut feeling is the low powder charge with the powder lying along length of case, maybe pack with dacron(or something to hold powder in place) from now on? I believe the guy was in shock, happy no one injured, happy it wasn't him pulling the trigger! is there a rifle powder like what pistol reloaders use ie: Trail boss that is designed to fill up the space in low power charges?

[@scott3708]

Neck isn't turned, were they reloads? If so don't look like it fit the chamber...

[@EagleRun23]

I have more on this. Just had to get the story out! :)

[@roseblite6449]

Ummm, WOW. I've seen rifles blown apart from too much gun powder in the round, Kentucky Ballistic for one, or the wrong powder being used. But actually forcing brass through a small hole in a semi fluid state when a round was fired, that's a new one to me. Glad to see you are a stand up guy, even though I don't think it's your fault (I blame the ammo), and repairing his rifle.

[@EagleRun23]

Haha well it was my ammo :/

[@madmedic1759]

It seems u might have over charged the round. I wouldn’t necessarily say it was a double charge. It could also be a case failure issue. Just wondering do you hand measure each load or do you leave it up to the Dillon powder charger. Sadly what I’ve come to find out after years of reloading is on rifle rounds that Dillon has a bad habit of throwing more powder especially on higher charge loads.

[@caldeio]

I don't know anything. Looking at the base I'd say that something happened there. Maybe out of battery since it's a different gun, different specs?

[@Portuguese-linguica]

Since they where subsonic I'm willing to bet they where undercharged .

[@EagleRun23]

that made no sense to me, but I have looked into it some, wild, i thought subs would be easy, i got humbled.

[@Portuguese-linguica]

@@EagleRun23 I'm say this because for subsonic you are making the charge lighter . So there for it may be to light .

[@airwolf...]

I would reach out to Aero Precision. They might replace the entire BCG for free.

[@EagleRun23]

i got lucky and they reached out to us!

[@airwolf...]

@@EagleRun23 Nice! What did they say?

[@EagleRun23]

@@airwolf... we are sending it in, bcg and upper. I think the gas block is theres too.

[@bry2k]

This is a fundamental problem with 8.6 BO. The case size is just plain WRONG for subsonic. "Q" Kevin says no problem, just stuff 400-450 grain bullets in there and problem solved. If that's the solution for subsonic 8.6 BO which provides a perfect balance of case powder capacity vs bullet size/weight, then why has no one done it yet?

[@IWatchedWhat]

I think it flashed over and detonated, been there and done that with large case and low load density.

[@stevendoe8299]

My guy, why is it like tuning into a train-wreck. The lack of research, continual avoidable mistakes, and outstanding safety issues are inexcusable at this rate. There is a clear pattern of this behavior. You need to take a step back and evaluate, because right now it's scary.

[@EagleRun23]

I appreciate your perspective on this, my reloading for 6.5 creedmoor reach out to 850 yards now. I have made thousands of 9mm that run flawless. This wildcat is a buttkicker for sure and I have struggled on AR10 builds. But ill have 3 of these running fine very soon. Definitely a setback and definitely a reminder to be safe. I appreciate you tuning in to my trainwreck none the less! Thanks Steven

[@michaeldunn150]

Wow! I saw the IG post and wondered what happened.... Ufta... Glad you are ok... Be scary for sure.... that is always on my mind way in the back of my mind about reloads....

[@EagleRun23]

Just a reminder, be careful and only shoot my own loads in my own gun. yup.

[@EagleRun23]

Lesson learned on my end. My loads my gun only :/

[@drOBcity]

Glad you weren’t injured!

[@EagleRun23]

ya, thank you! that was close!

[@constitutionalist4391]

First, I don't want to criticize you, but this is why loading for a new caliber is dangerous. However, reloading is dangerous, so you need to determine if you dropped twice into that round. More so, why you should be very careful about how you give your reloads to. Again, I don't want to criticize. But I wanted to point out that most of the headspace has been done in regard to the Faxon bolt, and you don't need to get the entire carrier, you can get the faxon bolt for about $99 (check midwayusa for $94). However, a headspace problem will not be avoided with over pressure and if you did a double charge somehow, heed this as a big red flag and be more careful. You can surely put a double subsonic in that case, you should be able to fit 40+ grains just like Creedmoor. Food for thought. Be safe, blowing brass through the bolt is not a good sign.

[@constitutionalist4391]

Don't use that bolt, IMO, replace it with a Faxon and use the old carrier. I don't know about the JP goomachi, get the Faxon. Maybe you will think twice about offering your reloads to others. BUT more importantly, who the F#@$ shoots an 8.6bo and doesn't reload their own ammo? Ponder that?🤔 I don't buy into the powder laying on the bottom of the case on a full moon theory...I believe you double charged accidentally, the Dillon is not bullet proof, I've had a 650 f#@$ up on me and glad I sold it. This is not a round to shoot by the case on range day, IMO, maybe 1:5 300bo is good if that's what you're looking for. Thankfully nobody got hurt.🙏 (inspect that carrier VERY closely before reusing it and the chamber)

[@EagleRun23]

@@constitutionalist4391 I appreciate your comments. I did learn some lessons here and I think we can all be reminded to be careful. I am willing to air this as a reminder to us all. Most folks would have never breathed a word but I am here for this Caliber and want to a see it success.

[@constitutionalist4391]

@@EagleRun23 Obviously there are other people that do not agree with my featureless pistol, but legally they have no recourse on a featureless pistol. That is the only way to get around a barrel less than 16" with a brace. A fin grip is NOT a brace. My best advice, make your own decision for your actions, just like I am.

[@constitutionalist4391]

@@EagleRun23 BTW, this cell phone post BS is rampant on most channels. I just removed about 5 or 6 from this post, only 2 were in my posts. I know it's hard for you guys to keep on top of it, but we all need to combat those pukes.

[@allthingsconsidered3211]

looks like a double charge. same thing happened to me in 300 blk sub doing a ladder. case looks the same

[@EagleRun23]

flash over detonation vs normal due to my misunderstanding of case capacity! haha

[@BendingBallistics]

I honestly think you had bridging on your load between 3 and 4. Bridging is just like over/under charging. H1000 is an extruded powder which is notorious with bridging. If you contact faxon they will warranty the barrel faxon is a great company to work with. Aero will also replace the upper under warranty. I would not recommend using the upper or barrel again just get them replaced the upper and barrel are both stressed now and its very possible that they have stress fractures that you cannot see take the safe road replace the barrel and upper under warranty.

[@carlLackey-qk8sd]

Thanks Bending Ballistics! I emailed your comment to both companies, see what they say.

[@BendingBallistics]

@@carlLackey-qk8sd they most likely will cover it

[@BendingBallistics]

@carl Lackey so whats the update?

[@carlLackey-qk8sd]

@Bending Ballistics I don't have the clout to get an asap response, got the notification from both they had received and would respond. I think Eaglerun23 was expecting to hear from Aero today from his reaching out.

[@BuffRANGE]

Your load wasn't using H110 or W296 was it?

[@EagleRun23]

this was 15g of h110 but i am "confident" that 15g is a safe load, i think i charged this case light or heavy or there was a out of battery something. lots of guys have had success with h110

[@BuffRANGE]

@@EagleRun23 I've seen 3-4 instances of H110 causing KB! on the 8.6 BLK group at over 25 gr. Or if it was under 15gr is it possible that that's too small of a load for H110 ?

[@mikeforce5926]

I am building a 8.6 and as soon as i can get an adjustable gas block, it will be finished.

[@EagleRun23]

nice, love mine! its a super sonic gun currently but my 8" will be done soon too! tell me about what your build is?

[@chiefmachining7972]

Overpressure you double charged that case more then likely. That under charge case is fudd lord I have done it some many times on purpose testing stuff

[@EagleRun23]

@@chiefmachining7972 except that case fill for h110 is a thing.

[@chiefmachining7972]

@EagleRun23 it is a thing you double charged it. 30gr h110 is possible

[@EagleRun23]

@@chiefmachining7972 sure. It’s unknown from my recollection and from all I have talked to. My reloading process would be odd to have a double charge, I did try to recreate and it seems unlikely but possible that it was a double charge

[@chiefmachining7972]

@@EagleRun23 it only takes one

[@Michigan4Conservative]

$50 in spare parts, some baking soda and super glue, and touch up paint. Good to go. 👍 But seriously, Glad everyone is uninjured. Waiting to see what your detective work shows. Teachable moment for sure. Check the suppressor closely as well. Curious if: The action cycled during the previous sub sonic loads? The action cycled during the failure? And if not, how much work to open the action? Were the rounds "single loaded" (one round at a time in the magazine) or were there more rounds still in the magazine? Definitely the hard way to make viewer content.

[@EagleRun23]

the action cycled the subs just fine, he was shooting the gun for a few weeks. We have 20 or so down the pipe that day. The action DID NOT cycle the failure, the gun was stuck and required some persuasion to open the bolt.

[@Michigan4Conservative]

@@EagleRun23 🤔

[@dadada902]

Your JP silent capture didn't have enough weight. Once you go suppressed with a silent capture you got to go All tungsten and sometimes add weights. I know it's cool and everybody loves them but they're meant for speed.

[@EagleRun23]

He was running the heaviest setting on the JP. This suppressor stuff is new to me.

[@chrissewell1608]

"Damn Reloaded Ammo"! You blew up the BCG and a Magazine! It a wonder you guys didn't get hurt. Just ask Scott from Kentucky Ballistics. Nice autopsy and examination of the bolt. It could have just as easily been a bad barrel (via head space) and mismatch with the bolt!? Did he test the head space, of the barrel, while building the gun? (Some people don't!) Were his head space gauges, in spec? (I recently learned the Go, No Go, & Field Gauges can be wrong!)

[@EagleRun23]

So he had his upper built by a gunsmith, I did not headspace it myself. His gun runs the factory subs no problem.

[@chrissewell1608]

@@EagleRun23 It had occured to me, that improper head spacing can cause a casing to blow out. Just like that one did.

[@johnathonbrandt6865]

Did the rifle kick the destroyed case out?

[@EagleRun23]

No it was very jammed in there. Required pretty major surgery to remove.

[@jdan181]

Double detonation from under charge hasn't been reproduced in a controlled setting. Double dets from uncharge is BS. Seeing how you missed the little details of putting on the taper adapter for shoulder indexing muzzle device. Then in another video you don't even mention the taper adapter, then go on to talk about "shimming" the brake. Makes me to believe you missed a minor detail in your reloading process. Probably multi-tasking. My money is on a double charge 100%.

[@EagleRun23]

I just don’t want to be guilty of a double charge. Haha