I Don't Know How To Feel About The Substance (2024)

[@siickle31]

i like that they casted a conventionally attractive older woman instead of someone "unnatractive", it really drives the ageism point home. the world doesn't care if you are the most perfect 60 y/o on the planet, they care that you are 60, and they will not accept you for that. i relate to this in a very weird way, because when i was a teenager i tried my best to do everything the pretty girls in my grade were doing. even when i was wearing the right clothes, makeup, hair, personality and tastes, i was still ugly. I like the message of the futility of trying to fit the beauty standard, because you wil absolutely never be able to do it. i let go of trying to be beautiful when i was around 15, its just a hopeless pursuit

[@roxassora2706]

This movie, description wise, reminds me of Helter Skelter. That's a Japanese movie based on a manga.

[@easelessness446]

Exactly. Like, I find that the most insecure or self-loathing women are almost always the ones who are above average, beauty-wise. Like they genuinely cannot see their worth or how their pretty privilege has afforded them more than the average person. The fact that as someone as beautiful as Demi Moore's character would still choose to pursue such beauty, in this case trying to kill Sue then reviving her, just emphasizes how much Elisabeth is dissatisfied with herself and she cannot be at peace with herself despite that it's destroying her.

[@i.shuuya3231]

​@@roxassora2706The Substance is a Helter Skelter ripoff. Also the production design reminded me so much of Perfect Blue (another japanese movie lmao). Hollywood in a nutshell

[@roxassora2706]

@@i.shuuya3231 No? They have their differences. There are similarities, but that doesn't mean it's a ripoff.

[@zanderisamazing5043]

It's about 20 years ago that demi Moore had her full body makeover. She had her knees done because she said that that was a really easy place to age people. Maybe everyone else gets it but no one talks about it? She looks fantastic and obviously not her age but why didn't they get someone with that level of "preservation" who is actually 50? Demi is in her 60s. You can call me out for agism but isn't that one of the things that Hollywood does, by playing with age like that? I just can't believe there was no one born between 1972 and 1976 who could play the role. Alternatively, age up the character!

[@Wildtingz]

It was insane to me that regardless of which body was in use it always left the other on a cold hard floor with no care. Elizabeth didn’t care for her own body so neither did Sue. In the first couple of cycles both just left the other naked and in the middle of the bathroom floor in whatever manner they fell. Really crazy.

[@Pikachu-qr4yb]

FOR A WHOLE WEEK TOO!

[@raincadeify]

Internalized misogyny

[@jellyrcw12]

all I can imagine is the amount of pain I'd be waking up after sleeping on the floor for a week. also, how do their muscles not atrophy??

[@naty8526]

That's what crossed ny mind as well, in my head I was like "what about you put the body in bed, a couch, at least a pillow and blanket"

[@Idk-ct5ky]

A small thing I noticed was at the start of them/Elizabeth using the Substance, both bodies carefully brushed each other's hair off their face which eventually devolves into...the rest of the movie where they very much hate each other (as well as are now two different people)

[@lizh6535]

I don't think this film would have been nearly as impactful if it was played by an 'average looking' actress. This isn't someone who longs to be beautiful, it's someone who wants to REMAIN beautiful, because after a lifetime of being seen as nothing more than a body to exploit, that's the only asset she has. It also shows the wild levels of beauty even the most gorgeous of celebrities have to be and maintain to keep their jobs.

[@CocoaHerBeansness]

yeah it also shows that the men don't sideline her for not being beautiful, that just an excuse for pushing out a woman who has money, power, influence, and a reputation. they want a controllable woman and growing up makes Elizabeth harder to control.

[@karldergr0sse]

I mean she literally said that when she tried to end Sue "I can't stop because I hate everything else about me"

[@cindys9491]

Right, Elisabeth literally says "it (Sue's) the **only lovable part of me.**

[@ada5829]

21:23 I actually liked that we get to know NOTHING about Elizabeth because it is how the executives and Hollywood sees her. Not as a person, as a doll, as an object.

[@ciriknockoff5738]

That part where Sue was brutalizing Elisabeth made me cry so hard. Through it all, all I could think about was "Please stop, she doesn't deserve this! *You* don't deserve this!" and I think at that moment it clicked for me... Maybe I didn't deserve it either. All of the abuse I put myself through when I was younger because I hated myself so much. The Substance might just be one of my favorite movies of all time

[@syntheticsilkwood2206]

Yes the termination scene felt like a suicide to me and I was also crying during that whole fight section and then the ending happened and I was feeling every emotion in the book I don't even think I fully understood the ending but I FELT it in my soul

[@hiptinasha8473]

I actually don't think it was Elisabeth beating herself up, I think that the purpose of the termination was to kill the matrix. Think about it, how was that withered woman going to get rid of a giant ass corpse? I think the black stuff was adrenaline, or maybe it unlocked some internal coding in the clone body, but you can even see the consciousness reenter Sue after Elisabeth dies.

[@d1etpussy621]

🫂

[@d1etpussy621]

@@hiptinasha8473 Elizabeth was beating herself up because she couldn't keep up with her own expectations of looking like Sue.

[@KIll74N]

​@@hiptinasha8473 It was both. There are multiple times where Sue kicked herself, saying "ugly" "old" "fat" etc. The actual termination had a greater purpose (to kill the matrix) but above all its to show how deep self hatred goes.

[@R_S747]

"it would have had more emotional impact if we were to have learned more about elizabeth" i felt the point of the movie was elizabeth has revolved her entire life around her career, her appearance and superficial validation. She only has one night stands and never tries to form genuine connections throughout the movie. Shes so obsessed with beauty, validation and wealth she never invested time into anything else more sunstancial like relationships with friends or family etc. which is part of the reason shes willing to go to such extreme lengths to become young and beautiful again.

[@rvawildcardwolf2843]

Originally I thought Sue was going to be Elisabeth's revenge tour on Hollywood. But then she immediately went back to the same job, making the same mistakes, just reliving her past.

[@javierganzarain4559]

Spot on comment. IMO her true achilles heel that led to her downfall was that, at the end of the day, she had no circle of lasting bonds and connections that made, in the words of the doctor character, feel like she still mattered

[@ianlewis4383]

I was going back and forth about this the whole time!!! None of the characters had much depth to them in that respect but I feel like adding more would have been a tough thing to balance with the cartoonish exaggerated vibe of the whole film. In the moment I was wanting more but by the end I appreciated that everything had been boiled down to its essential elements and dialed up to 11.

[@r4nokkia238]

I think this is why she was stuck on the couch all day!! Apart from the fact that it could really just be depression due to the fact that she lost everything she worked hard for, she believes what she has been told: she doesn't deserve attention because she is no longer beautiful, so she's punishing herself for being ugly and old by not going out, why go out when there's a much better version of you around?

[@instructivesilence359]

Exactly! Elizabeth lacked substance.

[@npc_undead]

the hagsploitation feels intentional as to show how elisabeth feels about aging. sue calls her old, fat, and disgusting, gags thinking about switching with her, etc. the color grading and camera angles communicate what is seen as desirable/undesirable from the perspective they have of beauty. there were less scenes of elisabeth showing off her body because she feels there's nothing to show off, until she's sue.

[@theoutlandish]

this!! i feel like this was a point severely missed, i completely understood the same message

[@littleblueby7748]

Thats what I thought as well. It's very much in Elizabeth's perspective. We see her that way because that's how she sees herself.

[@destituteanddecadent9106]

Is this a body dysmorphia/Ed reference? Because Elisabeth is objectively quite skinny.

[@hakaze6269]

@@destituteanddecadent9106 yes, i, and a lot of people with body dysmorphia really resonated with that part of elisabeth, especially the scene where she gets ready for her dinner with fred. watching that scene was akin to looking at myself when i try to get ready

[@juli8288]

I was going to comment the same thing! I think it’s a stretch to call it hagsploitation because the way it was filmed seems very intentional and necessary for the narrative since it’s from Elisabeth’s perspective. To me, it was easy to pick up on, but as mentioned in the video, the movie banks a lot on viewers watching it from a feminist lens, so I guess it’s understandable that it flew over some people’s heads. Plus I don’t really see how showing Elisabeth’s body more sexually like Sue’s would’ve contributed anything to the story considering how her view of herself was deteriorating throughout the film. The whole point is that the world says she is undesirable, so she believes she is undesirable, and the camera work reflects that.

[@helila]

in our current world of tradwives, gymfluencers, the ozempic craze, the return of heroin chic, and 55 step skincare routines this movie wasn't exactly like a breath of fresh air... more like an insanely strong hurricane. loved it. can't stop thinking about it.

[@sm0kelikeahehim]

i saw it WEEKS ago and it’s been stuck in my head ever since. i can’t stop thinking about how blunt and intense it was

[@imo9193]

It felt like a big fuck you to all of that and I'm so obsessed with it

[@madamgoogoo]

i only watched it last night and whew the visuals in that movie are insaneeeee, i think the _way_ the movie was made was definitely a breath of fresh air whereas the _concept_ retired; but beauty standards and societal pressure will never retire so i feel this movie will hold prevalence for a very long time ! :)

[@gracelingers]

30:29 to me it's not a literal split personality but it's a representation of how when you have problems with your body you villianize the part of yourself that is actively harming you while detaching yourself from the actions because you dont wanna deal with the consequences of it or perhaps work on the problem from the root. That's probably why they emphasize so much that "you are one" and there is nobody else to blame. You have been brainwashed by the beauty standards and you decided to contribute to them still, instead of working on solving the problems it created within you and that's why you still feel miserable looking in the mirror even though you thought you solved "the problem". That's just a personal take obviously but honestly, watching the movie reminded me so much of my inner discussions with myself while I was going through terrible body image issues.

[@lizz83]

omg i looove this explanation. even if that wasn’t the filmmaker’s intention u make a very good point

[@stoneyyogi]

This!!!!! That’s what I got from it too

[@sabrinamaidantchik7592]

Yes!! I think it’s also a reminder that our self is not just the consciousness but everything that envelops it. They share a consciousness, yes, but their sense of self is impacted by their experience within the body they inhabit. Our bodies are part of who we are and how others and ourselves react to it impacts how we think and act.

[@91Vault]

I also like to think of it like...if somone has a substance abuse problem they might act in a certain way or do dumb shit...then they wake up the next day sober...disgusted with themselves, wondering "why the fuck did I do that?"...sober you has to deal with the consequences of "high" you, much like Elisabeth has to pay for the consequences of sues actions. The substance is more about beuty than a drug metaphor but it also works on that level...or provides a way of understanding why she keeps going back.

[@lizh6535]

@@91Vault That's exactly how I interpreted it. Her 'changing' from Sue to Elisabeth and vice versa is like waking up from a bad bender and wondering who the hell you were the night before.

[@cherryjubilee6941]

watching it in the cinema and a man kept laughing. and not at the parts meant to be funny. it got so bad my introvert boyfriend shouted at him to get him to stop laughing at a woman breaking down over her appearance. too many men went to watch this without realising how important and painful it can be for women to view.

[@Petitfleur_]

Wow I’m so sorry you had to watch this movie with an asshole in the theater. When my husband & I saw it in theaters, there were so many people making audible noises of compassion/sympathy during that scene that made my heart happy.

[@erinnadia0409]

That’s so strange because in my viewing women laughed at moments that weren’t appropriate

[@UglyCrayons]

Gross behavior for sure. But honestly hearing some of the takes on this movie from men I know made me side eye them a little.

[@gayfield420]

god the amount of times i see people having this exact theater experience is insane. i couldnt help but feel saddened by the mirror makeup scene and also relate heavily to it.

[@Chattyaddy09]

this EXACT thing happened to me! almost an entire theater of men laughing as sue’s teeth were falling out,,, genuinely so upsetting

[@taylorg2320]

On "why would any woman want a better version of herself to parade around", I compare it to women who edit their photos online. That version of them doesn't exist, the one receiving all the praise is the edited version of themselves on Tiktok and Instagram. So what's the point? It's because we don't truly do it for ourselves, we do it to feed the vanity of receiving praise and elevating our social status, even if that praise isn't directed at who we really, truly are. Women will post an edited tiktok of themselves and take pleasure in reading the positive comments in the same way Elizabeth sits and watches Sue parade around.

[@availanila]

I've been getting onto social media for family lately. My first few months I got so self conscious seeing all my thriving family. Now I'm getting so confused by how edited they are. I wouldn't know it was them if I didn't specifically know these glamorous lives, idealic homes and beautiful bodies were my family. Sheesh, real people don't exist.

[@aleksandra797]

Some women when have a daughter see them as younger version on themselves... unfortunately

[@susanjeffries5108]

Well said! Agree 100%

[@briaweea02]

@@aleksandra797I also pointed out the toxic mother/daughter parallel! Like when Sue was on the night show dissing her, her immediate response was basically “you’re beautiful because I made you!!” It’s like when people saying that being pregnant with a daughter “steals your beauty”, or when some mothers start vocally comparing themselves to their daughters as they reach teen years (or rather society’s objectification ages)

[@JohnMarston-lo5qk]

​@@aleksandra797i mean men do it too.. Don't tell me you have never heard about failed sportsmen and fathers sending their son to the exact same universities they went to...Its a parent thing not a gender one

[@BottledBlueOnYouTube]

something I found really jarring was how they both left each others bodies on the cold bathroom floor each time they switched. It felt really callous to keep leaving each other without even a pillow, which I guess adds to the self-hatred of it all

[@hamglamour]

Me too!! I thought when it focused on the chair and the secret room building, she was going to be curating a “care room” of sorts…and then they were just dragged and dumped in the dark and my jaw dropped 😩

[@instructivesilence359]

It was literally the point to show that they didn’t care about one another. Elizabeth was jealous of and bitter with Sue and Sue is repulsed by Elizabeth. Then the point was hammered home by the fact that Sue wanted to hide Elizabeth behind a wall like a secret. She didn’t want to think about orher older self at all, never mind caring enough to give her a pillow. It was easier to harm her when she didn’t have to see her at all.

[@alexandervelez9507]

yeah. that made it so much more frustrating whenever sue told her audience “take care of yourself” because she wasn’t doing the same. (like most celebrities and influencers)

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

LOVE how you pointed out that wrinkled elderly bodies are not considered as horrifying when in a male body

[@wolvesteeeth]

A horror movie with a scary old naked man with balls down to his knees would be too much lmao

[@elspruce425]

I actually thought that the guy who played Harvey was used as horror. The close up shots of his wrinkles, skin, and his teeth that they made look gross and old. I thought that was on purpose

[@manicpepsicola3431]

​@@wolvesteeeth 😂😂😂 thats actually absolutely horrific

[@reng935]

that's the point of the movie though

[@bigbootyboy420]

I am a feminist, but this is just not true lmao ppl are def grossed out by this regardless of gender

[@indiefairy09]

If you read Demi’s autobiography, the role is even more perfect because childhood was brutal and just outside of Hollywood she was made to only feel like she was worth anything besides her looks. Her parents were addicts and her mom literally pimped her out at 14/15 to an older man for $500 and I think a place to stay. Extremely horrific. And she turned down a lot of roles bc she was tired of being sexualized

[@jenw9463]

Holy shit. I didn't know that about her. That's absolutely awful.

[@bonnacon1610]

I had no idea. Much, much respect and kudos to her for being a survivor.

[@jaimepasledimanche1649]

Je suis justement en train de lire ses mémoires

[@LostinMango]

Mostly fake

[@R_S747]

Omg I had no idea poor demi :(

[@sadea8440]

One of scenes that struck me most when watching this movie, was watching the younger version of herself violently kick the older version of herself's body on the floor calling her "fat, ugly and disgusting", like, girl👀 that is your own body that you are talking to. She is literally you!

[@hamilcross]

that scene stuck with me too!

[@Whatever94-i4u]

I think she knew very well that is was her own body and that was the very reason why she was so violent... Because self-hatred is the most powerful and destructive form of hatred.

[@sm0kelikeahehim]

this scene hit me hard because it felt just like a physical embodiment of the hateful things i think about myself and my body

[@littleblueby7748]

I thought that scene was so well done. Really showing the hatred people have for themselves as they age.

[@destituteanddecadent9106]

Was that a body dysmorphia/ed reference? Because Elisabeth is objectively not fat.

[@TeresaLopez-s2q]

My boyfriend and I were talking about how the real gore wasn’t the blood but all the scenes with food. I consider myself permanently traumatized by that scene of Dennis Quaid eating shrimp lol which is why I wouldn’t necessarily call it body horror.

[@AndreaDiaz-rc3iy]

FRRRR

[@erinnadia0409]

Yes! Who knew food horror was a thing, i will never look at prawns or chicken the same ever again

[@TryinaD]

Fr I hate shrimps so much now

[@TruceLucid]

You're not alone with this one

[@lizh6535]

That was the worst scene in the film in terms of disgust, and I am a huge wimp when it comes to gore.

[@Pleasant_Excuses]

I also loved the name Sue as a reference to the literary trope of "Mary Sue"

[@laurenxena]

'Sue' is also an anagram of 'use'!

[@RogueVideoRaven]

Also when you say ‘Sue’ your lips make a ‘kissy face’ which reinforces the flirty, girlishness her character embodies

[@phoenix7415]

when i saw the name "sue" i immediately thought it was from "su"bstance lol. so leaning into the fact that she is a creation

[@elisabet1138]

@@RogueVideoRavenand it forms the word ”you”. As in, ”I am you”

[@auggiemain]

Damn. Everyone in this thread it so much smarter than me. I had no fucking clue why she chose the name Sue.

[@mfuentes4961]

This film really hit me emotionally because I couldn’t stop thinking about my own mother and how she’s become insecure overtime about how she looks due to her post-menopausal age. I look just like a younger version her and it breaks my heart to hear her say negative comments about herself while she says positive comments about my appearance at the same time. I wish I could show her this movie so she can see that she’s perfect the way she is and that she’s not alone in feeling like this but she doesn’t like scary movies and she would be repulsed by the body horror.

[@sm0kelikeahehim]

i feel the exact same way!!! my mom refuses to leave the house with her hair up or without makeup and i tell her she looks fine and she doesn’t have anything to worry about but i can just see in her eyes that she doesn’t believe a word i’m saying. she’s beautiful and looks a good 10 years younger than she is and it breaks my heart that she can’t see that because of what society has hammered into her 💔

[@natashalim3964]

Aww this comment made me cry 😢 i hope you'll shower her with compliments when she least expects it ❤ she deserves it

[@katandra8819]

you might be surprised, my mum went to see it with her friends and absolutely loved it even though she usually hates horror. I kind of lied to her about the plot of the film tho lol

[@kaceyluvs]

i’m glad you commented this, same situation with my mother. she’s currently going through the menopause and she always comments how i look like her when she was younger and say how skinny she was so i get really annoyed because how insecure she is, but this comment was really eye opening and has definitely changed my perspective as it’s not her fault, thank you.

[@shaolinabbott9161]

I am sorry to hear your mothers feel this way about themselves. We all age and falter, and I expect your mothers are beautiful women. A woman's value and worth is not solely in her looks, or even primarily in her looks.

[@PerpetualJoy]

1) that comment about agism showing up in the way that young people trash their bodies because it's their future selves problem STUNNED me. Totally makes me feel guilty about not taking better care of myself. 2) i like that they chose a gorgeous woman to play Elisabeth. Beauty is subjective and beautiful people still struggle with not feeling like enough.

[@lukasprochazkaprod]

That is a but oversimplification, because that might be teuth ugly people know they are ugly and just nobody cares because world arounds abouth beatifull people. So for me it didnt hit the right note, and thinking about the beauty standarsds both actors are/were beautifull and they benefited from it, which is not somehow wrong but it flattens the issue in movie

[@xoxnataiie]

yeah like elizabeth is drop dead gorgeous. great casting though, it gets the message across

[@ravenblog7]

@@lukasprochazkaprodyeah but you do know beautiful people face insecurities too right? Yes they get pretty privilege but they also face doubts and insecurities. I think movie did a right thing by putting a beautiful women bcz it’s more with age too and not how they look. No matter how much beautiful someone looks after a certain age they r thrown out like they don’t deserve to have what they had in their younger age.

[@transplantman2287]

I just watched the Guilty Pleasures Podcast discussion about this and was surprised when the one of the cis male hosts brought up this exactly, because it’s his experience with chronic illness and so was the first thing he thought of.

[@c.v.3025]

I also thought that it was a good decision because even Demi Moore had a time in the spot light where people were honing in on her getting a “botched” plastic surgery and she was the go to thumbnail pic for plastic surgery channels saying “buccal fat removal gone wrong”. Like- she’s beautiful, but she also has the first hand experience of getting punished for pursuing beauty. The same as Elizabeth

[@sarap4780]

I feel like Elizabeth/Sue getting a depressing ending made the messaging more impactful. If they solved agism and got revenge on all the sexist man it wouldn't stick in people's heads as much and gives more of a message that the issue is being "resolved," IRL when the issues that are framed in the movie are still very pervasive. In my opinion the relation of aging, gore, and body horror being connected in the movie is because when you're told your whole life as a woman that youth is one of your main currencies, losing that FEELS like body horror. Which is why the camera frames aging in a cold and horrifying way because it's meant to capture that emotion where you see your own body and feel like you don't recognize it, feel like it's something different and monstrous. Learning to be empowered despite that would be an interesting movie as well, but it wouldn't match the themes and messaging this movie was setting up.

[@xviolaa]

Yep. Critiquing a horror movie for not having a happy ending feels crazy, it’s a HORROR movie.

[@tsamalsatkinal3686]

I don't think that ending is depressing, i think it is powerful.

[@ShayiArnett]

Honestly don't even know how that empowering movie would go...says something about me I guess. I'm afraid of getting old because I'm afraid I won't be able to love myself

[@saaaaltydaaalty310]

So i just wanted to offer my interpretation regarding your ending question: I took it that Sue and Elisabeth share one consciousness for the majority of the movie, that the one consciousness would change drastically depending on what body it inhabited. The conflict derives from the effect of being in this young body as being drug-like, changing completely how she moves in the world and what she is willing to risk for her original body, bc she fundamentally has contempt for that body. She falls apart and despises herself when she's Elisabeth again BECAUSE she's had the experience of living in this beautiful body, and it is jarring for her to see the older face in the mirror again. But she also hates herself as Sue when she's Elisabeth, bc of the effects of her recklessness as Sue. It's like someone despising themself for something they did while intoxicated. So I took it that the only time there was a full personality split was when both bodies became conscious.

[@nono8551]

right ?? i really dont understand peoples confusion on whether or not they were two people... like the movie makes it very clear so many times. I also feel it destroys so many of the movies messages if we see them as seperate entities

[@hakaze6269]

@@nono8551 exactly. the movie quite literally slaps us in the face with the whole “remember you are ONE” thing and some people still miss it 😂

[@nono8551]

@@hakaze6269 riiiighttt?? Feels like it’s the main point of discourse.. it also really reminded me of someone struggling with addiction. The constant berating yourself “stop it stop it stop it” it’s so reminiscent of withdrawals blaming your past self ect,,,

[@saaaaltydaaalty310]

@nono8551 that's totally what I took from it too. I think people who have experienced addiction will understand this sort of absurd dialogue with oneself, beating yourself up for the actions you took when you were in a different state of mind yet repeating the same self-destructive actions yets again, making it future you's problem over and over and suffering the consequences but unable to break out of that pattern

[@nono8551]

@@saaaaltydaaalty310 SOOOO WELL PUT!!

[@youdontknowitbutualreadymissme]

this movie changed my perspective on my body SOOOO much. I am a teenager, and struggle from an ED and body dysmorphia. this movie made me view my body in kinda a different way. I realized how as the years go I’m gonna be like: “I had such a beautiful young body, why did I waste my youth hating it?”. I’m not saying it cured my ED, but it sure made a positive impact. I was fighting the urge to cry on PLENTY of moments. love this movie

[@mammamonssterr]

I hope you can see your body as your vehicle and not a young and beautiful thing. The goal is not to think your body is beautiful, it's to stop thinking about it. Until society cease to see us as beautiful sexual objects, we women only have body neutrality and sisterhood as a place of refuge. Let's just help one another and stop thinking about our appearance.

[@cloudtinnn]

samee it lowkey made my body image issues disappear lmao bt seriously everytime we criticize our bodies we should think about this film and shift our views

[@shaolinabbott9161]

I have friends of all shapes and sizes. You are beautiful based on what is on your inside. While a healthy lifestyle is paramount to a happier existence, your real shining value and virtue are carried within your heart, your mind, and the way you treat others. Physical health matters, and our appearances do have an influence on our lives, but who you are at heart goes the furthest, and shows the greatest value. You are worthy of love, and you deserve to love yourself. You are enough, just as you are now. If you pursue exercise as I have, do it because you deserve to be healthy, happy and fit, so that you can live a fuller life. You are already beautiful in all the ways that count.

[@ginnundso]

Interesting, I have an ED and body dysmorphia and it actually triggered me and made my self hatred worse as the focus on Margaret Qualleys perfection an the picking apart of Elizabeth made me look at my own body and feel even worse. And the Sue thing was also filmed for the male gaze I think, idk. It triggered me but honestly I relapsed since 1 1/2 years and especially the past 3 months it's gotten worse so that's on me.

[@harleen222]

@@ginnundsoI really encourage you to get professional help. I have had an ED, and body dysmorphia. It is something you can overcome, and then spend your precious, limited lifetime doing something that is meaningful to you. Your life is important, and you deserve healing, help, support and self-love. I believe that recovery is possible for us all. Good luck on your journey, please treat yourself with kindness. If we are so lucky as to get old and reflect on our lives on our deathbed, we should think of our friends and loved ones, hobbies, important life moments. We should refuse to waste our precious life on an empty pursuit of a body that will never give us any meaningful content for our existance.

[@ladyzoe5734]

Why does every female director get 100x more scrutiny than any male director when it comes to representing their gender on screen.

[@auggiemain]

In general, minorities are more scrutinized when writing about their experiences because they're both expected to sanitize their experiences so it's more approachable from an audience that can't understand or relate and also expected to be able to portray that experience completely accurately because directors who don't have experience dealing with it have the excuse of "Well they didn't know" (imo)

[@zzygyy]

Hollywood is a disgusting industry. Demonic. You have no idea

[@quietreason8679]

@@auggiemain Let's just rest on the absurdity that women (who make up 51% of the world's population) are a minority in the film director community.

[@222o-u3t]

@@auggiemain ate, ravished even

[@liliana.6053]

for real, these videos low key feel like cheap shots at making content quickly. "Oh no popular media with feminist messaging is actually antifeminist and evil"

[@mfuentes4961]

I feel like calling this film some type of hagsploitation does a disservice and is an oversimplification of the themes of the film. Throughout the film, we see Elizabeth have moments of self confidence but then get quickly destroyed because she sees how the ageist world treats Sue vs herself. Even when she tries to stop using the substance, she doesn’t because she feels like her life isn’t worth living without Sue and she knows how the world/society will treat her since she’s not ‘young and beautiful’ anymore. The main villain isn’t ‘old hag’ Elizabeth, it’s society/patriarchy making people (mainly women) feel like they aren’t enough or worthy of anything because of their older age and not fitting a delusional/unattainable beauty standard.

[@sm0kelikeahehim]

i also feel like in the scenes where elizabeth is horrified and disgusted by her rapidly aging body that we were *supposed* to feel scared or horrified. not because it’s ‘gross’ but because (a lot of) the audience has sympathy/empathy for her, so we feel the same emotions she does. it’s not scary because she’s ‘old and gross’ now, but i feel like we’re meant to be horrified along with her, as well as being upset with society for making her feel so shameful and disgusting.

[@vampirebarbie_]

@@sm0kelikeahehim I also feel like anybody would be really startled if they woke up one day having aged 20 years? It’s not natural

[@rociomiranda5684]

Yes, hagsploitatiion doesn’t apply

[@pusheenqueen519]

I watched a Deadmeat podcast episode taking about the substance and they discussed Elisabeth's changing into a hag is like a reference to a fairytale witch. Like how in fairytales there's the evil ugly old hag jealous of the young innocent princess' beauty. At one point in the movie Elisabeth is cooking in a way that makes me think of a cackling witch brewing potions, Sue wears a dress that looks like a Cinderella gown, Elisabeth tries to prick Sue with a needle to "kill" her, etc

[@jagp135]

That's why, at the end of the movie, Monster Elisasue bleeds all over the audience and the shareholders, because the blood is on THEM, THEY caused it and it's their fault she became that.

[@literallyanythingelseother]

Loved it. Crazy ass movie. Felt like the first time I personally saw a movie that commented on male gaze in a way that wasn't just DOING male gaze.

[@Emmacita423]

I felt like the close up ass shots were sooo over the top that it was being sarcastic about the male gaze. The campiness worked really well

[@bryanalstoncoxing]

@@Emmacita423yeah like the scene where they kept doing the freeze frames and close ups of Sue to find the chicken bulge was so ridiculous and hilarious

[@ulizez89]

Is the movie about the male gaze though? (Which is external) Or about self hatred and inner conflict when you age? (Which is internal.) Idk, I thought the point of making all the men so clowny was to tell the audience that the men related stuff isn't important.

[@irisie]

@@ulizez89 The movie wasn't about men, so why would they hone in on "men related stuff"? No shade.

[@imo9193]

​​@@ulizez89I think so suggest this movie is about one thing is daft - inner conflict re ageing or beauty standards is almost certainly linked with 'the male gaze'. Many women (myself too) internalise the male gaze. I don't think we can separate internal & external driving factors when we talk about beauty standards etc

[@whatwouldsallydo]

Personally, I think the "split consciousness" plot device was a metaphor for addiction. We can see this very clearly in the scene where Elizabeth calls the helpline and is offered to stop, but she does not. If she can't enjoy it, why would she keep going? It was definitely supposed to remind us that, when you have an addiction, you lie to yourself every day. You want to stop because you know it's bad, but you don't. Thanks for discussing this and actually offering some critiques I had not seen come by! I personally loved The Substance!

[@eronwelch3742]

The typography/graphics of the substance packaging feels so 2010's minimalism. it's a very nice touch imo

[@nikkismodernlife]

yes, there is also a branding aspect, i also thought about how it is a subscription like almost anything these days

[@ulizez89]

Honestly, this movie feels stuck in early 2000's. It took me out because everything screamed that era. I was expecting some modern commentary and got some old stale discourse (which is sad because I did enjoyed the themes, but in the same way I enjoy the themes of american pie.... antiquated)

[@thinkfirst1989]

You said wrinkles and body hair aren't horrifying, but they are! Aging is natural, death is natural, but that doesn't make the process and the end result any less horrifying. What aging actually is, is the deterioration of each of our genetic expressions at the cellular level. This deterioration happens because our genetic expression - our bodies, are not physiologically stable, they are temporary, we are MORTAL. I have not heard reviews focused on what I see as the underlying horror of it all, which is the horror of mortality. We are minds as full of life, full of desires and aspirations as we ever were, trapped inside bodies that inevitably begin to deteriorate and fail. We're all forced to beat witness to our own physical decay, to the tapering off of our life's narrative arc, no matter what the heights we attain we inescapably will lose it all. That's mortality. Noone likes to be reminded of it, our culture has found no way to deal with it, and that's why we fetishize youth in our beauty standards, as if by making ourselves look young, and by projecting only images of youth and vigor we might collectively escape death. This inability to reconcile with our mortality is the reason for our punishing beauty standards and the reason aging women are kicked off film marquees.

[@mike18699-e]

Thank you. I don't like this modern message that everyone is beautiful, regardless of their genetics or their age. It's a lie, almost as disingenuous and unhelpful as the prejudices that it seeks to address. Beauty and youthful attractiveness are real biological things - they are not societal constructs, even if society is overly-obsessed with them. What we _can_ challenge is the value we place on them. I'm a man in his late fifties. I was never "handsome" in any case, but to deny that I'm less physically attractive and less vital now than I was thirty years ago would just be silly. Far better to look in the mirror and make peace with the process.

[@elise5172]

Underrated comment!

[@omaimahegazy0158]

Wow very well written and crafted words , I've been struggling with these thoughts for a while and you pretty much just summarized the whole thing . Some of us makes peace with the process and deals with it better than others , l hope l can reach that mindset eventually.

[@flamejob4260]

as a horror fan, i loved the film so much. i understand that some people found it too on the nose, the background elements too lazy or simple, but i think the simplicity of the plot gives us time to focus on the characters and horror and commentary. like the film knows it's on the nose and the message is simple - that's the point!!! it's an overexaggerated cautionary tale about how insidious the anti aging and beauty industry is. the body horror was stunning

[@imo9193]

I so agree!! It's SO camp and that's what I loved about it. I feel like its over exaggeratedness and absurdity was the touch that made me LOVE this movie - it felt like a final f**k you to the male gaze/beauty industry - like no, we're absolutely NOT going to tell this story in a way that is visually appealing to you

[@tangerinenina]

I believe that Sue and Elizabeth share a mind throughout the majority of the film. They feel like two complete personalities because(from personal experience) when you're deep into eds and self loathing you feel like there's another person inhabiting you who is sabotaging your body and your life just to achieve beauty or success. I could relate to the conflict because that what is going on in my mind between my disorder and my disordered self.

[@Muhammad-HarDick]

They share a mind but they have different personalities. Sue being young she's confident and knows she can get what she wants with her beauty and don't need validation. a complete opposite of elizabeth

[@kikikiller1153]

Yesss, especially in ED's, from personal experience after recovery I learned to differentiate my ED self from my true self, there's always this voice in your head saying how "ugly and fat" you are, and there's the real you that wants to just stay alive

[@hikariluanGC]

@@Muhammad-HarDick Sue does need validation though, she went back to grab Elizabeth's old job. She pursues success in the same business as Elizabeth, she over sexualizes her body in order to manipulate her surroundings falling to the male gaze and patriarchal world all around her. That's the most toxic gatekeep boss bitch who still gets objectified by all her surroundings in a patriarchal world and lets it happen in order to need the validation that world gives her.

[@angiemon897]

I absolutely agree. The two bodies where just an externalization of this discrepancy and inner turmoil we probably all know

[@noa4644]

I think the movies use of food is also really interesting. Elisabeth basically gives up on looking thin hot and young, and starts cooking (a “women’s task), and we don’t see sue eat anything and she looks down on Elizabeth for her eating habits.

[@KumakOwO]

To address your confusion about the split personalities 29:55 and why anyone would be okay with an alternative version of themselves living their dream life, I saw it as an allegory to motherhood. I mean Elizabeth pretty much gives birth to Sue. Sue is part of her but has totally different consciousness. Similar to how our mothers are 50% of ourselves. Because we’re part of them and they want what’s best for us, they’re okay with giving up their child-free youth for our existence and well being. Also motherhood changes the body and is physically taxing. Women die during childbirth at worst and at best experience permanent changes like stretch marks, weight gain, hair loss and boob sagging that makes them “less desirable” to society and accelerates aging. The scene at the end where Elizabeth is about to kill Sue but stops herself I interpreted it as a form of a mother’s love and sacrifice. Their dynamic reminds me of a toxic mother-daughter duo where the mother tries to live vicariously through their daughter. Reminds me a lot of the Hadid sisters’ mom championing “almond mom” culture and raising her kids to fulfill her dream of being a top model. Also reminds me of parents weaponizing the fact that they brought their kids into the world and raised them to guilt trip their kids into living lives they’re not actually interested in if it weren’t for their parents’ pressure.

[@leslievanhouten]

Yeah, this is The Giving Tree

[@noa4644]

I was just about to comment (a less well thought out version of) this! You said exactly what I was thinking

[@lindor222]

💯

[@annbubblegum]

well said! I agree

[@xMatthewStar]

My favorite detail of the whole film is when Elisabeth's in her kitchen and she's writing the days that she is Elisabeth and the days she is Sue, and for the days that she's Sue she writes Sue's name individually for each day, but the days that she's Elisabeth she draws Xs instead. It was the moment that clicked HARD that she didn't love herself at all to the point where she wasn't even willing to acknowledge in writing that she existed.

[@mirindaz96]

I really loved the movie and I was very happy to see a movie on beauty standards that doesn’t treat me like a toddler throwing a tantrum about not being sexy. I feel like most media about women and looks treats the subject like it’s silly and stupid - which it’s not. I saw some comments saying this movie still promotes the male gaze and violence against women and I felt like they didn’t get it at all. I felt the opposite, the violence and the bluntness showed that this was serious, not a fad, not a hiccup, it was a life-or-death situation. To me, the ass shots were so ridiculous I’d compare them to my mom reading my browse history in front of the family table. In general, the movie felt like a friend throwing an ice bucket over your head and screaming at you to wake up. As someone who used to have an eating disorder, let me tell you, not leaving your room for days on end and giving up on all human interaction just to get to stare for a few minutes at a skinnier you is a common experience. Elizabeth and Sue make perfect sense to me and I’m shocked people don’t get it. Elizabeth doesn’t believe she deserves to live, we are told that directly. She self-harms through Sue. Sue fucking hates her and eats her up and Elizabeth lets her do it because she deserves it. I loved the mirror scene, but I think the actual crown goes to the crazy cooking while screaming at the TV scene. That’s where she realizes for the first time Sue is bullshit. She looks like a crooked witch because she has become what she hated most (not being beautiful) but she’s also realizing she has internal power and almost gives up on Sue. This is right before Sue goes all out and keeps her sedated for 3 months. Personally, I get why “hagsploitation” is the result of sexism and patriarchy, but I felt like the “hag” here regains her power and that’s what makes her scary. It’s the trope of a woman fully unshackled from male validation and that’s the danger both men and women fear. This is why she is the base for the Witch - that got glamourized in modern media but was at the core an old independent woman. So yeah, these are my scattered thoughts, but in general I hope Coralie Fargeat becomes as well-known a horror director as Ari Aster, who I should point out has also used hagsploitation in all of his movies but never got criticized for it.

[@avaliervilla]

Amen, especially on the last sentence

[@imo9193]

I love your analysis! Thanks for sharing your own experience too

[@tangerine966]

Excellent comment!

[@hikariluanGC]

I do enjoy your view though I disagree that she overcomes the male gaze. Had she terminated Sue or, when she asks for a better version of herself, Elizabeth had emerged from Sue instead of the Elizasue Monster, I'd agree that she would have overcame the male gaze and the ageist struggles. But no, she gives in to the substance to the very end until becoming a dysmorphic monster and vanishing away. To me, It is more a cautionary tale about what the obsession with youth, beauty standards and trying to fit to the male gaze leads to. Even someone as an incredibly beautiful Elizabeth could get to the point of hating and killing herself over those issues and how society just discards her to her face. It was somewhat unsatisfying to me because I really wanted Elizabeth to win by the end, I empathized with her and her struggles so much it made it a thousand times more tragic which might have been what the director truly intended.

[@R_S747]

​@@hikariluanGC I think they're referring to when Elizabeth no longer has a body and is genuinely happy, as the director said Elizabeth was happier at the very end where she was freed from her body entirely But I could be misreading

[@Emmacita423]

The mirror scene made me tear up a bit cuz it was so real 😢

[@bryanalstoncoxing]

We’ve all been there unfortunately 🥺

[@TryinaD]

Yup I feel called out

[@vwatchem]

I was worried about her hurting herself! And apparently poor Demi Moore was made to do the scene over and over again until she physically couldn’t and someone told the director to give her a break. I was thinking: “my skin COULD NIT handle that 🫣😫”

[@bonnacon1610]

I think for lots and lots of women, this is the heart of the movie, not the last 20 minutes.

[@Megami87]

@@vwatchemCould you share interview which states this? I have seen only prasie for director from Demi and other crew members?

[@AbbieJames25580]

Even though Elizabeth Sparkles is a character that should have deeper character development , I thought that was because the audience watching knows who Demi Moore is. When I got back from the cinema one of my first thought about the movie was "This movie is what The Bodyguard was to Whitney Houston" because It was a metacommentary about the real life actor. We live in a modern world now where we know celebrities business because media wants us too. This movie still stands on its own even if you didn't know who Demi Moore was though.

[@chunkygrass]

yeah one of the first things i thought of was Demi Moore’s own struggles with her botched facelift - getting reconstructive surgery and thus having an uplift in her career helping her to star in a blockbuster movie

[@indiefairy09]

And people were literally making fun of Demi Moore a few years because of her facial plastic surgery. she got buccal fat removal. And the ironic part is she had to get more plastic surgery to play this role to reverse the damage you could say of her own real life decision to get a trendy plastic surgeon procedure at the time. It’s truly a meta commentary on so many levels. I made another comment above about if you read Demi Moore’s autobiography her body has always been her most prized possession bc she grew up in poverty with abusive parents who were addicts and her mom literally pimped her out to an older man at 14/15 for $500 and she talked about how her beauty and sexuality has been one of her biggest strifes in her personal life and career. So yea her casting is incredible and if you know part of her story or how the media has perceived even up to recently it’s all implied. It doesn’t need to be said which I understand can be frustrating

[@AbbieJames25580]

@@indiefairy09 exactly that it's all implied , you're supposed to fill in the blanks because you already know her life story therefore they took zero time doing that. She's such a strong woman , people forget she is human like the rest of us and having your proudest asset criticized hurts permanently. I imagine as well this script connected to her emotionally now she is caring for Bruce Willis struggling himself with the pains of getting older. Thank you for replying

[@222o-u3t]

i’m gonna be honest, i’m too young to have ever clocked or cared about who a Demi Moore is, and still she fitted and conveyed the message exquisitely.

[@megan-ui3hq]

I went with a man which was a big mistake. I was grinning ear to ear for the last 30 mins of this movie and came out feeling more invigorated and joyful than I have watching any other movie at the cinema. He came out giving it 2 stars and called it “a tiktok montage of a movie”.

[@mackieincsouthsea]

This is a shame! I definitely saw this being sadly lost on a lot of blokes

[@cryptoplayboy21]

I also know a man who called it a "moodboard movie", and I just want to know - what moodboard is he talking about?? I have a couple gripes with the movie but it did have, well, substance. It was not simply a series of crazy and aesthetically exciting shots like these guys seem to believe

[@insaneink5696]

Don't know what sort of man wouldn't enjoy 2 hours of body horror. Every man I know who saw it loved it

[@cryptoplayboy21]

@@insaneink5696 I think it's the ones who can't grasp the themes at play and are annoyed by seeing a bunch of women doing what he thinks are random scenes full of nothing

[@Muhammad-HarDick]

You guys are making up some stories. I'm a straight dude and I like this movie. We guys have body insecurities too.

[@ellenforster6822]

This video has just helped me reinterpret one of issues I had with the film - I was like: why did they make the rules so hard to follow? why didn't they do anything when she started abusing the system? etc - it's an allegory for the beauty and cosmetic surgery industry. Women are 'allowed' (even encouraged) to get procedure after procedure and then when it goes wrong or they've gone too far, the system turns around and is like "well, this is what you wanted." ALSO - I was a bit confused why she didn't stop when first given the chance as it seemed she wasn't benefiting from Sue's escapades, but a pal explained to me this is like an allegory for addiction. Sober you doesn't benefit from what high you does, but that doesn't mean sober you can just make the decision to stop.

[@paulinaispunk]

The box '503' that the substance gets delivered to elizabeth sparkle in is essentially 'SUE' as well! loved that little detail they threw in!

[@grmgt]

7:58 I couldn't disagree more with those people. It was intentional to hammer the point of beauty standards being unreachable in the modern "camera" age. It will get to ya even if you are a 60 y/o that looks like Demi Moore.

[@lightyears-xo8qb]

Yeah I agree. There was certainly story to tell if they cast a "uglier" artist but by casting someone like Demi it hammers how patriarchal standards hurts all women like you can be reaping the benefits now cause you meet the standards in beauty but you will eventually be aged out even if you are the prettiest 60 year old possible

[@jaye8103]

One thing I think that gets overlooked is that this isn't just about Elizabeth hating her older self, but how young people discard and are even disgusted by older people. Sue hates how Elizabeth looks and complains that she just sits around watching TV and cooking food that wouldn't suit what Sue would want. Elizabeth IS old and tired and uninterested is looking glamorous, so she wants to cook food she was never able to eat when her body was under constant scrutiny and to just chill in front of the TV which is exactly the kind of thing younger people are critical of older people. Conversely, older people are resentful that younger people want to don't make space for them or respect their interests and existence. It's just a criticism of agesism in Hollywood or how we can be critical of ourselves as we get older, but how younger people are disgusted by older people and the resulting war between the generations.

[@0ooesme]

Agreed, and also the way Sue treats Elisabeth just shows she is so fixated on her physical appearance, that she no longer cares about her true/inner self. They are the same person, but she has no respect for the version of herself which inhabits Elisabeth's older body.

[@sophiex4152]

the anger part - absoloutley , I LOVE that you highlighted that its anger that comes to the fore with self hatred rather than some kind of melancholy

[@constanzanavarro821]

I’ve realized that when Elizabeth is getting older and older I didn’t feel disgusted or scared for her new “form”. It made me sad, really really sad and not because she wasn’t *pretty* anymore, it was the fact the she was in so much physical and emotional pain. The way that she hits herself and repeats stop it over and over again really got me 😢 If you watch this movie and think that she looks terrifying/horrible when she isn’t young anymore I think that’s more on you and your perspective of the world than in the actual concept of the film

[@johnivory3245]

28:52 I don’t think she calls Fred “only” because he finds her pretty. Let’s not forget the scene before she calls him, she runs into the older version of the nurse and he says “we deserve a life too.” “It gets lonelier and lonelier” So she wanted to have a life and not just use the avatar of Sue. Which of course leads to her spiral because she keeps seeing Sue and now can’t leave the house to see Fred.

[@rgggxo]

I loved this movie SO much. Once it ended I looked at my BF and said, "I liked that a lot, but I don't think I'll ever watch it again." and I meant it. But as time has gone on I can't stop thinking about it, and especially in that first week post view. I do still think I need some time, but I am eager for the point in time where I am in a space to watch it again. As a side note, the first movie I ever saw Demi Moore in was Striptease so this was kind of a full circle moment for me seeing her in this.

[@rosyface_]

Same. I saw it a little over a month ago and just this week I’m excited to see it again.

[@meganina4ever]

This film rewired my brain - it made it blood-and-gore explicit how much we hate ourselves at the cost of beauty, something which is fickle and temporary (see- Sue attempting to use the substance on herself because her beauty couldn't last). I thought Elisabeth's loneliness was also very loud, the lack of loving people in her life. We hate ourselves for beauty because we think we are unlovable without it.

I feel like nobody mentions that Elizabeth Sparkle rose to stardom fairly rarly in her life, and we've seen time and time how child/young actors don't mature in the same way "normal" people do, we see them be reckless or trying to reinvent themselves time and time again because the only life they know is being young and famous, so seeing Elizabeth being fired at 50, i do feel for her, being on TV was the only life she knew, i can see why she would go to such great lengths to just continue living the life she was used to

[@rvawildcardwolf2843]

My theory is that Elisabeth was a huge deal in her late teens early 20s, and got that "most beautiful girl in the world" tagine so many young models and actresses hold for a while. She was in a string of hit movies including one that one her an Oscar. But she got into the LA party scene, got a reputation as an unreliable diva, and developed a drug or drinking problem. Fitness saved her life, gave her a focus. The show only existed because Harvey or his predecessor thought Elisabeth's waning name still had value.

[@YoureSuchACliche]

if the substance is a hagsploitation then so is the picture of dorian gray is also. why we can’t face our fears over aging (which is universal) without being something problematic?? some movies literally make jumpscares with women bodies and i thought this movie was way more respectful, focusing on fear of death, being left behind, isolation and mortality than “omg what a hag”.

[@MrYamhamer]

Regarding the "split personality", for me it was just a younger Elisabeth gaining the confidence again and feeling unstoppable and ignoring the consequences for the future because it was a 'small' wrong decision. Older elisabeth has the same personality as she's been complacent throughout the years, with her experience its made her less confident with her looks, she wants both her bodies to look good but she can't help but Live, laugh, love in her younger body while just keeping her older body alive

[@baphomex668]

I saw this movie with my mom, and we were commenting all of the time how insanely beautifull Elizabeth was. Not only on the outside, but her taste in clothes, her home, she is literally so elegant and stylish. Sue is pretty, but she is like, pornstar pretty if it makes sense. She is hot and young, and her clothing only reveals her hot, sexy self without anything else. The only time that she wears something that doesn't look straigth out of a porn movie is the blue dress at the end of the movie. And as we know, blue was the color of Elizabeth. The dancers around her are wearing pink, the colour of Sue. For me, this simbolizes that the blue in her, Elizabeth, was the soul, while the pink, Sue, was only the carcass, the body. All of the things about Sue appart from her appeareance, like her charisma, her dancing skills, were all Elizabeth's

[@cloudtinnn]

love this observation and I felt the same like sue is shown so stereotypically pretty even the clothes she wears is v male-gazey and that's why she attracts sm attention from men. Interestingly, I see so many pictures/memes of the actress who plays sue and its mostly men talking about how hot she is, it highlights how men view women who appeal to their notion of beauty. Alsoo Elisabeth had the best stylee

[@PalitoSelvatico]

you're just making a judgment on different type of women over a personal preference you have. Thinking elegant and stylish is more valuable than "pornstar pretty" is part of a harmful mentality, just like thinking wearing revealing clothes makes you soulless. Sue IS Elizabeth, her charisma and dancing skills are still her's, the only thing that changes is the exterior and people (like you) treat her differently based on her aspect. THAT is the point of the movie.

[@baphomex668]

@PalitoSelvatico Please read my comment again because I literally said the same thing about Sue being Elizabeth with a different body but the same habilities lol. But yeah i get that it sounds really mean that "pornstar pretty", so i want to clarify that im not saying that having a more "revealing style" or that being a sex worker means that you are lesser of a woman or that you are a monster. Im saying that Sue is soulles because she literally is. She doesn't have a last name, she doesn't have family, she doesn"t have anything that isn't from Elizabeth. She is only a hot body, and im not saying this in a "ohh whore way", im saying it because she quite literally is only a carcass made to be hot, desirable and sexy 100% of the time. She is always in her work uniform, she is always performing. She doens't have a style outside of her "pump it up persona", unlike Elizabeth that clearly has a style of her own. This is quite literally the whole plot of the movie, the other self of the substance is nothing but a carcass that the original person wear from time to time. That is why im treating Sue in that way, because she is literally ONLY A CARCASS that Elizabeth uses. Im not treating her as a soulles being because of her apearence, im treating her a soulles being because she is one.

[@hikariluanGC]

I agree to this so much. Sue was beautiful, but generic and kinda off? Elizabeth literally had that sparkle of beauty in her that makes someone so gorgeous. Like her smiling and in that red dress was just an amazingly beautiful woman which drives it to the nail with the mirror scene. Even Demi Moore levels of a fully ready and done beauty did not make her immune to her own story and the effects of it on her.

[@Elsa-fe8ld]

Elizabeth’s tag line was “take care of yourself 😘” and the irony of that was so good! She really never did lol

[@sage6861]

I personally do not think Elisabeth needed a more in depth backstory to explain her insecurities. The scenes of her standing in front of the mirror criticizing and hating herself tells us everything we need to know about what she's thinking. Additionally, I believe Elisabeth is meant to be a sort of 'everyman' character that you see in older fairytales or fables, the film is structured like a modern fairytale and cautionary tale, like the Boy Who Cried Wolf. Not giving Elisabeth a backstory essentially makes it so that she could be literally anyone - your mom, your aunt, you grandmother, even yourself one day if you're not careful.

[@liesjelualockse6377]

Thnx for talking about the pure rage that comes from self hatred, insecurity. Seeing my 14 yo doughter going through it is painfull and scary. So even though I am a grown woman and quite at peace, I needed to hear this. And thnx for watching this movie so my adhd brain can be spared from the experience 😂❤

[@TM-qt2ze]

i ended up liking the very unrealistic events of the movie: sue being immediately successful, everyone treating her nicely, even though that is definitely not the fate of attractive women in real life, the lack of discussion of the origin or price of the substance, etc. It gives the film a very dream-like quality and avoids the film being too preachy about body positivity. A lot of films go for the "hot people have problems too" route and, as a woman that would trade 5 years of my life for the so called perfect body, that's just a very boring perspective to me.

[@itsmebecky24]

Love the fleabag ref

[@fattypattycat]

I like this too, its unrealistic yet still believable within the world Fargeat built for the movie, its quite camp tbh

[@taylormullen2815]

I like that Sue isn't more attractive than Elizabeth. She's just younger. Obviously, Demi Moore is a beautiful woman. So is Margaret. To some, they are the epitome of beauty. Yet, in the film Sue has fake boobs. Beauty standards are so pervasive, so narrow, that they don't fit it. I haven't seen the movie, but I think they casted Demi for a reason. She's so well known, that naturally the audience will just see the actress who plays Elizabeth. In my opinion, that makes the movie stronger. It does force you to reexamine what you think is beautiful. Are you ugly, or did society just decide that you are? I do, however, agree with the Wallpaper review. Based on what I know, I can see why it's not true body horror. The effects were well-done. Honestly, I'm just glad a movie like this is mainstream. It's starting interesting conversations. In terms of ageism, I think back to when I watched "Pearl." I'm no horror connoisseur, but I really liked that movie. At the end of the film, you just feel bad for Pearl. She created this hollow, sad place. She punishes the pornstars because they have potential. They're young, pretty, and happy. Much like the men in "The Substance," she is hell-bent on crushing their spirits. Perhaps the movie lacks depth, because there's no real substance in being beautiful. (This is already too long, but regarding the 'split personality': I think Sue represents Elizabeth's younger self. She was thriving, and desired by everyone. She had no insecurities. When Elizabeth returns to her normal self, she seems depressed. She absolutely hates herself. Personally I've felt this way, when what I feel doesn't match what I see. It can be very painful.)

[@bebacake212]

This is a very strange take 🤨

[@Sofiaode18]

@@bebacake212how

[@lilhonor5425]

*Spoliers below* For me personally watching the movie, I found the act of taking the substance and Elizabeth’s actions in the film are more akin to an eating disorder and body dysmorphia metaphor than a cosmetic surgery metaphor. Maybe its just because I have struggled with an eating disorder and body dysmorphia, when you have an eating disorder you are damaging your body and putting yourself at risk for health issues and obviously in very serious cases death. So in the film as Elizabeth is spending more time in the body of Sue and damaging her own body in process felt similar to me to how often eating disorder behaviors will escalate and become more risky to your health over time. I think the chicken scene was also to me an amazing visual metaphor for being scared of food and weight gain. Also body dysmorphia can really warp your self perception even if you are “conventionally attractive.” There I think is also a stereotype that only young women have eating disorders while many people struggle with them well into adulthood. I think just viewing The Substance as only being about a fear of aging I think has contributed to some analysis of the film feeling incomplete to me, like that quote from The Cut you mentioned. I think it also adds an interesting layer to the male nurse character who tells her about the substance as he can be read as a queer coded character since eating disorders and body image issues are a prevalent issue in the queer community. I obviously have a lot of feelings about this movie 😅

[@veritypascarl704]

And also since the physical standard inside the gay community specifically can be insanely narrow sometimes

[@kikikiller1153]

Yup, honestly everytime I'll feel like relapsing I'll just give this movie a good watch to remind myself that it's not worth it

[@d1etpussy621]

I think it's both

[@hikariluanGC]

I also thought of the 'scar' or giant spot on the male nurse's hand to be very reminiscent of what skin issues looked like in Hiv/Aids patients in the 80's. I'm a gay guy who grew up in the 90's and having a mom who is a nurse was a trip about so much stuff I learned. I remember when I came out of the closet and she cried not for me being gay, but because she had seen many of her gay friends die in prior years and all the prejudice they were subjected to. This also makes me crave to have a gay or lesbian themed movie that is akin to the substance and its themes and how the LGBTQIA+ community can be mercilessly ageist and incredibly keen on keeping the beauty standards as impossible to reach as they can be.

[@dogwalk3]

i never want to watch it again, the same way i loved The Neon Demon & The Fly but will never see them again. this was too heavy for me to "love it," with references too clear on its sleeve, I had watched "Men" too recently to be really appreciate the ending of this, & some of the camera work isn't my thing, but damn, it made me think so much. about ED & body dysmorphia as well - the food scenes/leftover mess were some of the most gruesome to me. i'm a liver transplant patient that's doing so much better, but i had almost complete loss of mobility & weird skin issues from all the complications of cirrhosis, making the scenes of Elizabeth's decaying body hit so close to home - along with having someone else's liver who died and gave me this new life, & how that (unintentionally, i'm sure) related to overt plot in the film. in addition to the themes of addiction that got me into late stage liver failure in the first place; so the entire film had me alternatingly recoiling & gratitude it was a rollercoaster i wanted to get off (but didn't even when I could "stop at anytime," - which is relevant in many ways.) it was difficult. i just finished it, so we'll see how i feel as time passes, but you nailed a lot of it that hit me as well.

[@natalysampayomejia2165]

I really don't understand why so many people are confused about Elizabeth and Sue sharing a conscience. I thought if was pretty obvious. They said like ten times that they were one.

[@KawaiiStars]

I guess because it always seems like Elizabeth doesn't remember the workouts and Sue doesn't remember eating

[@aba4055]

I’m frustrated that most of the popular cinema film accounts posting about the substance are just making aesthetic photo sets of margaret qualley being gorgeous

[@aporue5893]

demi's lipstick looks amazing

[@stevenmoore3133]

I keep seeing the take that "Elizabeth was the only one punished" and "Why didn't Harvey get his comeuppance" but I think this a really reductive way to look it at. It's a tragedy, there's no need for justice to prevail. It wouldn't make any sense anyway, like what Harvey gets his head ripped off and Elizabeth reverts back into original Elizabeth? Elizabeth getting "Punished" isn't some kind of justice and I don't even think "Punished" is the right word, it's just tragic. It honestly kinda reminded me of The Fly in that regard.

[@jakedizzle]

Exactly.

[@lizardlace9510]

I feel the ending is a powerful representation of how women are punished when they “go too far” with pursuits of beauty The “monster” at the end being a metaphor for famous women who have experienced severely botched plastic surgery being shunned and treated as monsters for the disfigurements they’ve acquired.

[@lila7663]

The scenes of Sue's workout show were so over-the-top exploitative that while they were funny, they were also deeply uncomfortable. Edit: To clarify, I LOVED this film, and think that the excessive exploitative angles were entirely intended to be both absurd and uncomfortable.

[@Llewellyn2844]

That sounds like a "you problem."

[@C12341]

I like the concept of the film and I’ve learned a lot about myself from the plot, but the female director has a history of exploiting the women in her film with gratuitous nudity and weird camera angles. This one isn’t as bad as her previous movie. I don’t think we’re owed seeing the bodies of other people. Remember on set they are that way around a lot of people. A woman can also be predatory or exploitative of other women.

[@__kate___]

30:21 I think you answered your ending question earlier! Young people put their bodies thru a lot bc they know it won’t matter tomorrow, that is 50-year old me’s problem. So maybe they do have the same mind, but you’re a vastly different at 50 than you are at 20. Different goals, different cares, and different realities.

[@StefOn402]

Exactly! They are one and the same! I considered abuse and addiction as a central theme for this movie (I guess the name helps with that) But I thought the scenes of Elisabeth/Sue complaining about what the "other self" is doing, is a lot like the inner conversations and regret we all have when "indulging" with food, alcohol, drugs, doom scrolling. The parts with Elisabeth hitting herself and saying "stop it" is very telling!

[@TrentonF505]

I think another thing to note is Demi said she wouldn’t do this movie if the director was man. And it actually makes sense because the sexualization of Sue would have a different context if a man was the director.

[@francesca7260]

I find the amount of edits I have seen on TikTok of margaret qualley as sue so ironic given the movie lol (also Demi Moore is GORGGG)

[@hikariluanGC]

I'm not on tik tok and to be honest, I found Demi more attractive than Qualley on this movie. She was so stunning in that gorgeous red dress and it was so sad for her to not go to the date and cancel it when she was literally looking like a gorgeous goddess.

[@River.flows.]

I understand the critiques, and while I agree with some of them, some of them are ignoring the fact that this is a satire. It's a revved up reflection of cultural values/norms... aging for women is horrifying because of the patriarchy. Women are taught to fear aging and losing male validation, especially in Hollywood. Even nowadays if you're a women over 30 without being married, there's a real fear that you'll never get married/doomed to 'spinsterhood'. Demi really was perfectly casted in that sense, Hollywood is notoriously ageist to women and that means their career, and in extension their survival, is threatened. Patriarchy wants women addicted to male validation/looking physically desirable as Elisabeth Sparkle is because then they can profit with the beauty/'health' industry and manipulate women into accepting harmful patriarchal relationships so that they are distracted enough to not realize their true power/autonomy. To help answer your question in the end, I don't think it's a split personality. It's just Elisabeth's younger self. I remember thinking/acting in ways as a teenager and young adult that really make me cringe looking back on it. I was definitely ageist and was playing into the patriarchy competition without fully understanding what I was doing. I liked getting male validation. Elisabeth is staying home because she's ashamed of her appearance. She has internalized the idea of the men in the movie that tell her she is no longer desirable because she's 50. Because it's satire, those feelings are exaggerated. Towards the end, I think Sue ends up hating Elisabeth so much because she fears her, knowing she'll end up exactly like her if she ages (she doesn't realize she's not real/a clone because she has Elisabeth's consciousness in her) and she resents that. She's young and she doesn't want all those privileges to go away, she's treated much better than Elisabeth and she internalizes that as being better/more deserving of consciousness than Elisabeth. I could write a whole ass essay but I'll stop here lol

[@pinkmidi6553]

Thank you for saying this, this video was driving me crazy.

[@1mp3rfectb0y]

Babes i know the movie neve clarifies but Sue and Elizabeth SHARE A CONSCIOUS!!! Demi herself confirmed in a interview, the disconect between the two of them is Elizabeth disassiating

[@1mp3rfectb0y]

The concious is transfered from one body to the other, Demi said so no Jimmy Fallon of was Jimmy Kimmel

[@rachelsummers4311]

the movie clarified this repeatedly and very clearly tbh with the constant “you are one” lol it’s so frustrating it’s even a debate to me

[@UrbanDecayLova247]

The crazy thing is THE MOVIE DOES CLARIFY, it’s mentioned multiple times throughout the film “YOU ARE ONE” - ppl choosing to ignore that kinda feels like a funny allegory of ppl not listening to women.

[@katc2040]

​@UrbanDecayLova247 I feel like people are just so obtuse and need things feeded right to them, so they will just misconstrue very straight forward points. Its really annoying..

[@thisisnotausernameXD]

The movie does repeatedly tell us that Elizabeth and Sue are the same person switching bodies but they do kind of undo that understanding when Elizabeth and Sue permanently split later in the movie. I wonder if that is meant to be an anomaly but is never clarified and therefore confuses people?

[@UdoADHD]

24:01 yes it is. In that industry, wrinkles are considered grotesque! That’s why the lighting makes her sagging very intense and in focus

[@BatsNBirds]

The confusing conciousness thing was a topic of debate in my household as well. I personally think it's a lot like what you said about how when we're young, we don't have a lot of consideration for our older selves. When I was watching the movie, I likened it to "drunk you" vs "sober you." You're one, but in totally different headspaces. You can't help but see the other as the enemy. It makes the "you're the only lovable part of me" line something that can read for addiction and abuse survivors, too.

[@iancossman303]

Hey! The lack of a shared mind actually stuck with me after leaving the theater too. Some other people online have pointed out that it's a good metaphor for drug abuse (like, literally substance abuse). As in, your sober self doesn't really get to experience what your high self experiences. In a movie that's clearly more metaphorical than literal, that idea helped some of the less "believable" character choices click in place for me. Like why she sits inside and seems depressed when she is in her own body (even though nothing actually prevents her from doing so), why she struggles to (spoilers) kill sue with the final injection (even though that makes seemingly no sense to an outside observer, considering Sue has apparentlt only ravaged her life and body), and most of the final scene (wherein once abuse becomes visible people are no longer sympathetic, the whole ineffective mask aspect, etc etc). Was it intentional? Idk, lol. Are there psychoactive drugs that people commonly take in their 60s to lose weight? Maybe, I don't know them (like literally if you know them please tell me, haha). Or are we kind of messily layering metaphors on top of each other. Possibly! Just some food for thought.

[@tonywords6713]

Amphetamines used to be widely prescribed as diet pills, as depicted in Requiem for A Dream which was clearly a huge influence on this film. And yes that was definitely intentional sort of like how a really bad addiction can feel like an inner war between two different people and why dealing with addiction can be so frustrating for family and friends.

[@iancossman303]

@tonywords6713 Thank you for the context! I had figured it was related to coke, just wasn't sure how popular that is anymore in hollywood's upper eschelon as a weight loss drug.

[@therealjanekennedy7630]

i totally thought this too! it's such a good metaphor for addiction

[@AshMorganComedy]

I think the split personality is a metaphor for addiction. When you're high, you feel great and beautiful and fun. And then when you crash you're mad at yourself for taking so much cuz you lost something important to you. The self loathing causes behavior like agoraphobia, binge eating, obsessions. Until eventually you crack and have the drug again for a moment of relief. The scene where sue is literally kicking the shit out of Elisabeth hit hard because it reminded me of all the times I beat the shit out of myself when spiraling down.

[@nuclearseahorse]

One might argue that Elizabeth Sparkle not having a very deep characterization is meant to demonstrate the degree to which this character has completely lost her personhood in her strive for beauty

[@SubtleStair]

She was not a person at all outside her acting/modelling career.

[@nuclearseahorse]

@SubtleStair she had the opportunity to be one, but she couldn't take it

[@kaimee_]

6:13 similarly - Ryan Reynolds got SO many chances throughout the early 2000s to be a leading man and had so many flops until he finally took off

[@princessmorebucks]

And also after he got plastic surgery 😉

[@mmmmrsssr]

to me the body horror in the film is cleary present in the lost of control of yourself by yourself, theres no one hurting Sue or Elizabeth but herself. not only her body is changing and becoming unrecognizable in her eyes, she also knew there is a part of herself she cant control despite both being the same person and be very aware of what they did every minute, they couldnt blame anyone.

[@gwaggie5657]

I was yelling at the screen through half the movie going “YOU ARE HER!”

[@loosebands2689]

i watched this movie with my dad and all he could say about it was that it was too bloody and he didn’t like the gore. then when i tried to have an actual critical conversation about the movie he just reinforced that yeah women get uglier when they get older and when i said so you’re saying i will be ugly, he then backpedaled lol

[@messygirl084]

my favorite scene was when Elizabeth finally got the chance to end it all, but just wasn't able to bring herself to let go of Sue, because she needed Sue and she hated herself.

[@mazsty]

I think when it comes to the conversation of Elizabeth Sparkle actively choosing to live as Sue at the price of destroying her true self is a truth that can be best explained by addiction. I think dubbing it “The Substance” was a great way to invoke the parallel between validation and addiction. Even Elizabeth spending her days in front of the TV reminded me a lot of those scenes of the addict mom in Requiem For A Dream, a movie centered on drug abuse. But eating disorders for example have been described as “behavioral addictions”. One can become addicted to restricting food despite the action literally eating the self away. Addiction being hailed as a disease suggests a person cannot consciously escape it.

[@above3938]

My friend and I saw the movie, and she also felt weird about using the "horror" of an old woman's body. I told her I see it as a reflection of ourselves, and society. WE find her gross. It's us that's the problem, and I think this movie helps illuminate that. She is generally still able bodied, functioning person in her old state. The true monster comes out at the 2ed iteration of Sue. That's the monster.

[@above3938]

Also I am surprised it wasn't mentioned Demi's own conflicts with beauty, aging, and plastic surgery in recent years.

[@alienated1847]

The horror to me didn't come from her aging looks, it came from the fact that she was in a lot of pain. Her having to pop her knee just to walk, her struggling to walk with her hunched back, the fact that by striving to achieve youth again she mutilated her own perfectly healthy body. I wanted her to survive Sue's attack

[@Blossom23-vn2im]

@@alienated1847I agree. Aging is more than looks it also often leads to the decline of the body which is legitimately scary. I think that adds to the horror and the timing also. Aging over a span of years can be scary but how terrifying would it actually be to age over the span of days and not know how that would manifest daily.

[@sunsetfromvenus]

Hi former psych nurse here - while I was watching the whole time I kept thinking this COULD actually work for someone who is mentally stable. If someone has a physical illness this could be an ideal solution to maintaining some quality of life. However I don’t think Elizabeth went crazy…she always was! There was no split personality- she was always vain - she was always in pursuit of fame from her vanity so much that she refused to age gracefully. At 50 she is clearly focused on maintaining her looks - like you said, I also remarked to myself how beautiful she looked at the beginning scene. I felt she looked amazing “for her age” she has likely already been using cosmetic procedures. This “substance” is only the most extreme form. The personality of sue is just her true subconscious feelings, it’s how she would act if she were young again, it’s how she probably acted when she was ✨ Elizabeth Sparkle ✨ back in the 80s when she first got the star. Elizabeth is just what happens to a woman who places all her value on her youthful beauty

[@barbarapatino5458]

It’s definitely not a split personality - to me the disrespect and hate Elizabeth has for herself is reflected in how Sue sees her, the lack of care as well… it’s a different body that comes from the Matrix, so that’s why it’s not completely shared… I really liked your analysis!! One of my faves movies of the year

[@juliakeyzer3867]

I actually like that they casted Demi Moore because it really emphasizes that no matter how beautiful or conventionally attractive you are, it'll never be good enough. They'll find something about you to criticize, something that is supposed to make you feel insecure so that you go and spend money on things that'll get rid of it. You can be the most beautiful 60yo ever and it still just simply won't be good enough, and that's the reality women live in.

[@emc7056]

Insinuating Dennis Quad doesn't know what *the film* he is *in* is about is ridiculous. I understand he is an active supporter of Donald Trump but the scenes he films are over the top grotesque and well done, I think it's wrong to dismiss his talent/work due to his political affiliations.

[@tonywords6713]

Seriously, she could have looked up any QA with the director or Quaid. He is very gracious and well spoken towards them and likewise the writer director goes out of her way to add that his performance is just as fearless as the female leads... People just want to get their little political brownie points/dunks in while ironically being very sexist because he's just a dumb man who apparently had to have been tricked into being in this movie.

[@jewell33]

Elizabeth and Sue are the same. Elizabeth is really punishing herself because she is Sue. That’s what I got out of it. I don’t think it’s really ever been clarified that they don’t share a mind. I think we behave differently when our lives are different and our lives are happier or harder. I think the fact that we don’t have clarification makes it more interesting but that’s just my opinion.

[@armythecat]

I think the fact Demi Moore is so conventionally beautiful and attractive further exarcebates the fact she is being fired literally for no other reason than her job "She is beautiful, strong, athletic, can keep up with her program without a single problem, but she isn't 21 anymore so too bad for her, she is useless now" I think works really well as a way to show how miopic Hollywood is in general, if she was mpre conventionally unnatractive it would be easier to "excuse" her being fired for the general audiences with so much internalized mysoginy, and honestly also helps the audience realize how those self esteem problems can come from literally anywhere

[@Robiniela]

I don't agree with the critique that The Substance is shallow. I think with enough observation shills and empathy you are able to know who Elisabeth is without the director having to say it. She has no family, friends, or partner who comes to check on her throughout the weeks she is missing and Fred seems to be the only person who knew her before she became who she is now. Her interactions with Fred is the only times that someone sees HER, and not some fake celebrity version of her. So there is no surprise that we don't know more about Elisabeth, she is nothing outside of her image. The moment she tries to believe that someone would actually want to get to know the real her it is her image that stops her from going deeper.

[@radgirl12]

ok just a small detail but Ashton was 25 when him and Demi started dating,and she was 40 … 25 yr olds are definitely solidly adults, but it’s still a stark difference from 30

[@artcowboy]

Lmao I’m sorry but calling the substance not body horror is like calling Spider-Man not a super hero movie lmao…. Wow 21:47

[@artcowboy]

Not a critique of Jordan btw lol

[@Darleer]

Yeah that article seems needlessly pedantic

[@katiem5415]

To answer the question you ended the video on, they do have the same consciousness through the whole film. Similar to how when you drink, you can sometimes have thoughts of “wow I can’t believe I did this” or “I would never do that, that was the drunk me”. Now imagine if every time you drank, you entered a completely different body. You still have the same mind, you’re still you, but you’re in a different body. It would be very easy for the thoughts to become “wow I can’t believe SHE did this” when you separate your body from your actions. The part where they exist simultaneously can be confusing to explain, but it’s not a foreign concept in body horror or sci-fi. This is simply a more visual representation of two bodies one mind than usual. Elizabeth and Sue are the same person. Elizabeth hates herself, therefore Sue hates her, and vice versa with loving Sue. This is why Elizabeth cannot really fight back against Sue, it’s the part of herself that she loves, and it’s why Sue can easily kill Elizabeth, it’s the part of herself that she hates.

[@transplantman2287]

The scene of Elisabeth getting ready for the date and getting more and more anxious until scrubbing her face and sitting in the dark was painfully relatable.

[@lizk2695]

Cast someone more “unconventionally” attractive ? Elizabeth is A STARLET ?? Of course she’s gonna be attractive? That brings the point across. People just don’t wanna see a 60 year old shine in such a role.

[@UdoADHD]

21:24 no. I think it’s important we don’t know Elizabeth well. The point is that she is a shell of a person who exists for the spotlight hence her fake last name. The more original/uniqueness she is given, the more individualized the message is rather than being a representation

[@betteramulet50]

So I think I found the split consciousness to be a lot more straightforward than other people For the first 3/4 of the movie, they DO share the same consciousness - it’s just an extreme version of ‘my hangover self feels like a different person entirely when I’m in the midst of a big night out’ The extreme physical difference of inhabiting literal different bodies while doing the magnifies the feeling until the consciousness *literally* splits when (!!SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER!!) Elizabeth backs out of terminating Sue and instead awakens her To me, it felt like a very intense literalisation of how we treat ourselves when we feel like patriarchy is benefiting us vs. the actual consequences I also think that while Monstro-Eliza-Sue feels both consciousnesses simultaneously while sitting with Sue - sort of like the version of you that has the where-with-all to call for help when in the midst of intensive pain - you can’t do it at first, but eventually you can put the pain on the back burner of your attention, to some small degree, so you can call for help/talk to someone etc I hope this comment doesn’t get auto screened cos honestly, I think it’s one that hasn’t been thrown out there enough

[@R_S747]

"the split personalities thing really confused me" respectfully how? The message of the movie in regards to that specific aspect was very straight forward. Theres no true split personality. Its all Elizabeth. Like any addict elizabeth blames her actions on her substance use. In the scene where theyre both conscious thats Elizabeths self hatred coming out.

[@lilsoggins]

also i think it is fitting that the main character doesnt have a “happy ending. she didnt learn the lesson of “aging is natural and something to accept. do not fall for the patriarchal ideal that women not age.” she fell into it a second time. the very end where she dod have to worry about a natirally aging body was the moment she realozed that despite her age, she could be happy.

[@anastassiyali140]

That “false womanhood representation” comment is so dumb. Her story is about “abusing the substance.” That’s exactly how ppl with real substance abuse issues spend their days.

[@Llewellyn2844]

Sue and Elisabeth share a SINGLE consciousness. They are ONE---as the film helpfully and repeatedly reminds us, so I don't know why so many people have trouble grasping that concept. Here's a simple explanation: THE SUBSTANCE is a feminist version of DR JEKYLL AND MR HYDE. Jekyll and Hyde also shared a single consciousness (albeit with different personalities). Just as Jekyll was finally taken over & destroyed by Hyde (who represents Jekyll's unfettered dark side), Elisabeth was "consumed" and destroyed by Sue (who represents Elisabeth's intense, unfettered self- loathing).

[@katerinaAzevedo]

I loved the movie . And i personaly think we are used to having everything explaining to us , and this gives a little scratch in the back of our minds, so is refreshing to be that open in the end ,in my opinion .

[@tonywords6713]

That's interesting because one of the only things that annoyed me with this movie was the need to show little flashbacks and stuff for every side character.. like dude we JUST saw that scene... I liked the film but I definitely got the impression it thought it was smarter than it was and that the audience was too dumb to get it. Reminded me of the ends of Hereditary and Longlegs where they have to come in and explain the movie in direct exposition for all the dumb test audience members.

[@potatoppppower]

To the point of hags-sploitation. I think the film is concerned more with our attempts as a society to become masters over time rather than an inherent horror of aging. I feel a strong message in the film is that by attempting to alter the aging process, we corrupt the 'natural'. Obviously this is ramped up, the substance is more extreme than getting some botox, filler and even the most invasive cosmetic procedures.

[@katieweigl]

I was also confused by the fact that Elisabeth’s consciousness was not inside Sue. What is the point of going through all this if you aren’t the one enjoying this new, “perfect” state? I wondered if part of the allegory is about having children and trying to live vicariously through them

[@rafaelandreaslisberg4308]

Omg what a wonderful film! I used to be very fat and hate myself for it, so I really connected to the "I can't kill you because I hate myself". Until that moment I didn't really get why Sue would be unreasonable and go against the rules. Then I remembered how after I lost all the weight I was sometimes mystified at friends who liked me before I changed ; "what did they find attractive in that version of myself that I hate?" was my thought. Those thoughts were Sue trying to kill Elisabeth, even though Elisabeth is the reason Sue exists. We can always improve, but we've got to love ourselves in the process.