I Dropped Computer Science at CMU: Here's Why

[@crisswang6045]

The point we have science under the name “computer science” is to actually warn people it’s for the pursuit of true foundation. What most students ignore is that they need to be really passionate about science before they get a major/degree in CS. Unfortunately, most people taking CS classes just want to do engineering/coding, which is great but totally defeats the purpose of CS.

[@chuniphil]

I totally agree! So many people overlook the SCIENCE part. Especially at CMU where the CS apartment allegedly span out of the Math apartment originally lol

[@datcate9116]

This is true, I was one of them. One thing I regret was not researching about Computer SCIENCE. If you didn't like science or mathematics back in high school, chances are that you either have to learn to cope with them or drop out.

[@adamajs3836]

I would suggest those students to look into alternative programs like Applied Computer science, more hands on projects that will help you become software engineer/dev faster.

[@JBoy340a]

Very goood point. Especially with things like Machine Learning. if you math background in Statistics, Calculus, and Probability are not up to par it is going to be a lot of extra work. It CS is a lot more than coding.

[@anonymouspornstar1039]

Interestingly, I experienced the opposite. I was in EECS at Berkeley, and I decided to switch to pure math. The main reason that I made the decision was that I realized my interest in thinking abstractly after taking discrete math, and many mandatory project-based CS courses seemed less appealing to me (I regreted applying to engineering school). Although CS has science in its name, most CS curriculum includes some extent of software engineering which kind of discourage theory-leaned students.

[@kiralight4212]

Appreciate the input brother. Yeah I definitely think the lack of overlap between CS education and interview preparation for CS related jobs needs to be addressed more often. Most CS students, like you kind mentioned, are more passionate about coding and landing a career rather than computer science itself

[@chuniphil]

Yea that’s how I felt too!

[@结实反流]

that maybe me also, yikes 😅

[@iidentifyasaPSLGoddess]

Ive heard every CS graduate wished or slightly wished they didn't go to school & just learnt coding out of boot camp or self studied, bc apparently they use nothing that they learnt in CS in their work, this was from a Stanford graduate & the other is a popular "coder" youtuber

[@Halo4beatsB02]

@@iidentifyasaPSLGoddess go to school to network and depending on the program can help you land a high paying job

[@The_Original_Hybrid]

@@iidentifyasaPSLGoddess A lack of a degree certainly will limit the potential of your career.

[@unnamedexodus3902]

Learning should not be about cramming a double major within 4 years for an impressive degree. Learning should be at a healthy pace where you can really reflect on what you're paying to learn. Glad you made the healthy and more balanced choice.

[@JennHayden]

Learning should not be about who can pay to learn. ...

[@StEvUgnIn]

I strive for computing literacy instead. I assume everyone will be computer scientists in the future. I even work as a broker now and I use my data scientist background to find clients and elaborate strategies.

[@jastation321]

@@JennHaydenso youtube isnt free?

[@yuniqlo]

⁠@@jastation321they’re talking about paying for uni

[@whydidueatmyfriesdaddy7844]

“Heck the only thing I’m passionate about is probably like anime, but anime doesn’t really make a living.” That one really got me.

[@JoshTseng]

I'm on the other side of the world (in Singapore) but I had a very similar experience studying for my Information Systems major. I ended up completing the programme and am graduating soon, but a lot of people told me I was ridiculous for even considering switching majors when I decided that technical roles like software development weren't really for me. The reality is tech isn't for everyone. Not everyone needs a tech job. And that's ok. So glad for videos like yours that can help others realise there's more to life than sticking to a choice in major and completing it for the sake of doing it. Life's full of choices and we should embrace that. P.S. I've ended up doing tech-related jobs with no coding whatsoever. I'm now running my own business as a digital accessibility specialist.

[@lemonstrangler]

i agree, i quit my tech course, didnt stick with it because i realised im not suited for it, especially to go through higher studies for it. not worth it for me

[@superyoism]

Hey, could you tell me more about what Digital accessibility experts and could you tell me more about your business and how do you do it? I would like to learn more

[@BobbaFett312]

im EE, been in industry for 20+ year. biggest advice to young people i have, leave word "passion" at home. I have never been passionate about electrical engineering, it was just a job for me and still is. Yet, here i am, financially independent, very close for my investments to cover my living expense. Meaning, i dont need a job to live, and im in my early 40s. work is super easy, im on cruise control. many people look down on my cause "i dont work a job that i enjoy". but you know what? my 1 mil+ bank account does not care what other people think.

[@Bogosbinted12]

Can I ask what job you work? I’m very passionate about computers, specifically computer architecture and graphics, but I have been learning a bit about circuits recently for component design. How did you get into the field and how is the job market?

[@kitothekito915]

Nice

[@KazmirRunik]

I don't think that's universally applicable, which isn't to say that you're incorrect, just that every rule has an exception. Having a "passion" for the content of your work DOES happen... for the lucky few. Particularly in specialized academic fields (like mathematics, geology, and astronomy) or creative artisanship (like cooking, art, and fashion), people are more likely to have an absolutely shining sense of purpose in their work. By contrast, I've seen the complete opposite for people in quality control, customer service, and debt collection. Nobody seems to have a passion for those jobs, but really, a lot of people don't have a passion for ANY job. If you have no passion for any commercially viable job (which is probably most people), then you suck it up and do something that pays you enough to support the things you ARE interested in. If you DO have a passion that can make you a stable income, you do that. Just, if you have a passion for the work, you'll know. The first computer programming course I took, I blazed through the entire textbooks in the first month of a semester-long course, including everything that wasn't supposed to be covered in that class. This was at a top university, too, and now, 1 job into the industry, I've continued making side projects while working full-time. It's also distinctly possible that I'll never work for another company again, because I have revenue from side projects that's grown enough to make a good chunk of my income. I like what I do enough to not stop when a company isn't paying me for it, and after doing that for long enough, my work has become commercially viable on its own. Most people shouldn't expect to have this type of passion, and I don't think you can force yourself to. Leaving passion by the wayside, that may be for everyone except the passionate, who will not be told otherwise.

[@fewkeyfewkey5414]

really depends on the type of person. if ur really passionate about something I would recommend you try and pursue it. however if ur the type that just wants money then its up to you to decide. but again being passionate does give you strength to continue.

[@wepid3426]

Ok, but im passionate about ee. How can you not love this degree/field?! Dsp, how radar works? I left work for a sabbatical to get my masters Almost done with ee masters with a 4.0... literally the best thing ever!

[@kyo4386]

Watching this video makes me more grateful for my professors at my Uni's CS department. They have made it a point to provide resources for practice reviews, internship availability, preparation for your career, internship and what the next years will look like and other useful things. Especially the discords and clubs, they are a really helpful and welcoming community. They always share any opportunity for jobs, internships or other helpful acitvites others or that club is hosting.

[@rty667f]

what is your uni name?

[@brookeblake3324]

Studying computer science doesn't have to be completed in universities since most people don't aim to become computer scientists. As long as people have good programming skills and lifelong learning habits, they can actually master many techniques to solve practical problems, which will bring them a greater sense of achievement than simply obtaining a CS degree.

[@tarekblaugrana1053]

True but most jobs require a degree or experience in the field. Having a degree definitely makes it easier to get a job.

[@coisasbostas1648]

@@tarekblaugrana1053 yeah

[@lashondamiller2982]

@@tarekblaugrana1053 you can get hired without a degree as well, there’s many ways into the software engineering field now and days

[@The_Original_Hybrid]

@@lashondamiller2982 He didn't say that people who don't have degrees can't get a job in the industry, he said that it'll be more difficult without a degree. Why do people who don't have degrees always get so defensive about this? A bachelor's will make you more employable, regardless of any other factors. With a master's, you become even more employable. It really is that simple.

[@lashondamiller2982]

@@The_Original_Hybrid first of all my guy, I’m well aware he did not say people without degrees can’t get a job within the industry, I was saying that with those companies that say a bachelors is “required” people without degrees are still getting those jobs without the degrees at those companies for the positions that are bachelors mandatory mane that was the whole point I was pointing that out. Second I was not getting defensive over it lmao where in my original comment did it show me getting defensive??? Unless u were just speaking in general then, but still haven’t witnessed someone without a degree getting defensive over that 🤔 Also in this day and age unless ur going into a field like medical, law, etc u don’t really need a degree, really it’s about having a portfolio displaying your skills, having certs, or just connections And depending on your field a masters degree can be a bit mundane, and not necessary at all to being more hire-able. There’s just different cases to this now I mean what you said would apply to the past but now there’s been so many changes that you can see a shift happening here

[@spacetimemalleable7718]

Truly appreciate your candor/honesty. CS is hard and if you double major with Physics or Math, it just exacerbates the situation.

[@robertlunderwood]

I barely survived math at CMU. I'm not doing anything else.

[@lauramester5741]

Thank you for sharing. So many students experiences at CMU are similar to yours. It’s helpful to know what you are getting into.

[@hithereimsty]

I'm so glad I clicked on this. I have had similar struggles for some time now, but I couldn't find out what the problem was. And your video has given me some insights about it. PS: I am currently a Sophomore in Computer Engineering.

[@chuniphil]

I’m glad it helped! Don’t burn out like I did and take care of yourself :D

[@BlindTakes]

Great overview of your time at CMU. I just graduated from Tepper with my MBA. I took the Principles of Computing course for fun and was blown away at the work load and how hard everyone had to work to get through the class. I can totally understand why someone would want to take a step back from that lifestyle.

[@johnnyboy7538]

Applying to Tepper for my MBA next year.

[@BlindTakes]

@@johnnyboy7538 good luck, lmk if I can help.

[@johnnyboy7538]

@@BlindTakes thanks man, just followed your channel, will DM you

[@muja_hid7273]

I'm also doing CSE bachelors and later will do a MBA for business related to garments and want to climb the ladder. Everyone of my teachers told me to do a engineering degree in bachelor's before trying to do a MBA. Is it really worth it in this day and age of super evolving technology. Or even is a Cse degree enough engineering I needed to understand about engineering? Cuz they don't have great reputation of EEE here in my uni for me to switch majors

[@pastalu5254]

Thank you for sharing. Your honesty and sincerity are greatly appreciated.

[@peterkhoudary9303]

I'm a current 2nd year at cmu, and I just made the decision to go for the additional CS major. I also came from dietrich (I have the same shirt lol) and am a 112 TA, so this video is hitting eerily close to home. I really appreciate you leaving your insight here. I'll be back in a year to see how it goes.

[@re123456arebest]

sooo what'd you choose

[@jordan05302]

Wow, it's so nice to see another 210 TA here! I was having the same exact thoughts when trying for an additional major -- I had so much imposter syndrome before getting accepted as a TA but now I think it's finally getting better. You should reach out to me and we should chat about how things are now. I'd also be so happy to help if you're still trying for it as well :)

[@peterkhoudary9303]

​@re123456arebest I'm in my senior, about 75% done with additional in CS, home major in logic (which is kinda math × CS × philosophy). 3rd year was really hard but I got through it. Senior year is looking good :)

[@mannyw_]

I got into CMU's SCS three years ago (hs co19) but ended up having to go to my state school (UF) because the aid offer just wasn't enough. Getting into what was considered a top-tier school was literally one of the proudest moments of my life, and so having to give that up was crushing. Three years later, I'm reasonably happy at my current school, and I think I made the right choice. Still, seeing CMU's subreddit and discussion of some of the courses that I'd so eagerly researched the day I got in brings back memories. Good on you for prioritizing your mental health dude, great video!

[@JoshTseng]

I don't know your specific circumstances but that's a really tough choice you made. Giving up the prestige of a school like CMU isn't something a lot of people would've done, even if there's no way they could've afforded it. Based on what you've mentioned, seems like you made a difficult but mature choice. Really happy for you and wishing you all the best with your future pursuits!

[@nia_xx2859]

University of Florida is no joke. no matter how prestigious CMU is just know that UF is also a great accomplishment.

[@etn]

its heartfelt when i hear this from others since i did the same thing. i got an amazing scholarship from a less prestigious school compared to my top choice, and i had to go with it because i knew i couldn't afford my top choice since i didn't get much aid. in the end, im glad i made my choice. kuddos to you friend 👍

[@ihcnehc]

CMU CS graduate here. There were usually lots of cross majors in big classes in the beginning of the semester. Most of them would be gone after the first mid-term. CS classes are not about coding, though many of them involve quite a bit of coding, so don't take them to learn how to code. Many of my classmates started coding before they were 10. They are also usually more demanding than other soft major classes.

[@Bambotb]

Most of these classes are useless theoretical bs

[@The_Original_Hybrid]

@@Bambotb Only a true brainlet would claim that theoretical CS is useless.

[@Bambotb]

@@The_Original_Hybrid ask Zuckerberg to solve that shit exam let's see

[@raifkenedy3]

You'll be happy to know those 'useless theoretical bs' when the industry undergoes change

[@ninersnation3298]

last year, my child was in 11th grade in high school, he took Pattern recognition/AI, a 400 CS level class in his local university. Second assignment, to do the A/B decision analysis using the Bayesian method. he spent 22 hours in one weekend to write about 1000 lines of python to plot 20,000 random decision. he is gifted like scored 780/800 SAT Math at age 11. this youtuber is too weak in math and just doesn't have the gifted mind which i think why he struggled in CS. I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE GIFTED TO UNDERSTAND THOSE SH TT!!! My child will do the restrictive early decision at Stanford, and i think early action on Carnegie Mellon. I don't think he could do both Stanford or MIT.

[@mvee]

I go to grad school at CMU and I can confidently say CMU classes in general are difficult. The rigor is on another level. I find it hard to manage extracurriculars & coursework because of all the hours I have to put in.

[@dogpup3]

Have any advice for increasing your chances of going to a good grad school if your gpa isnt that high?

[@mvee]

@@dogpup3 My best advice would be to absolutely do well in undergrad but if you'r GPA isn't high, you can compensate in other areas to justify your GPA. Lots of project work, maybe a few publications & great recommendations & essays.

[@anuragg7007]

​@@mveeSuppose if your Undergrad GPA is like 3.4-3.6 Is there any chances?

[@MrSloika]

The intro courses for STEM subjects are difficult at any legit school. This is because the schools engage in a process of 'weeding out' at the lower level STEM course for reasons that may or may not be valid. Unfortunately this weeding-out disproportionately affects students from poor/disadvantaged/immigrant/minority backgrounds.

[@mylastnamemk0939]

@@anuragg7007 Yeah

[@casbox2667]

"college isn't like highschool, where you always get As" that hurt me

[@larslover6559]

I really don't like where the system is going: we study only to get good grades. And then after that we study only to crack the interview. Everything is just to freaking impress somebody whether teacher or or employer. Only way I see to break out of the cycle is to start own business

[@irfann.8457]

Same, I'm at my 4th year in CS, but I'm thinking about take a break or dropping out because I don't have research object for my thesis and I can't enjoy it anymore. I also don't think any of that will help me to PASS the interview, because of my lack hacker rank knowledge. Now I don't care about my thesis & degree, and focus on how to get a job without CS degree and PASS the interview, in the next 3 months.

[@nro337]

Awesome on you for your openness about this topic.

[@Aaron-lp3zt]

"machine learning is just math" - I wish more people in industry knew this. This field is severely overcrowded by the people that use libraries to do something with ML, but never understand the fundamentals... I will stick to EE :)

[@sobsag]

What is EE?

[@wngmv]

​​@@sobsagelectric engineering. Like cs lite.

[@dnsjtoh]

@@wngmvbut it’s wayyy harder because you actually have to understand hardware + physics...

[@imveryhungry112]

EE is where people who can't handle coding go 😊

[@dnsjtoh]

@@imveryhungry112 ah yes, because the harder math and more difficult physics in EE are definitely easier.

[@debbiekasper4833]

Thank you for being so honest and transparent with your school journey. I’m sure you are going to make a great life. You seem to be a very insightful young man. You will be very successful because you have honored yourself.

[@cachem11]

Went to an ordinary state school for CS undergrad and graduated top of my class. Then I got my MS in CS from a top school. I could have dropped out of CS if I started at schools like CMU, UW, UCLA, Waterloo etc.

[@iconic-z5906]

But You did amazing and that's what matters. Do you work now?

[@Napolean45]

Where do you work now

[@chelseaesanson]

hey phil! great relatable video, i actually just switched my major for the same reasons! i really love programming and learning programming but the math courses were just not for me, luckily i switched to IT and have a concentration in app development and can focus a lot more on building my skills outside of my schoolwork:)

[@chuniphil]

Yea discrete math is waaaaaay harder than calculus or linear algebra because they never taught us any logic in school. Hope you are having fun building apps to!

[@jesusislord2453]

​@@chuniphillogic is....logical. Discrete math isn't hard if you just break each step down logically.

[@Kirbycatcher]

Good stuff man. It's quite similar over here at the University of Washington, but things get even tougher over here cause CS and many other majors are capacity constrained and super competitive to get in. All this stressful stuff is happening to first years building up even more pressure to do well so we can even get a major. Wish modern education would allow for more experimentation at the high level, cause I'd love to be able to tell if the higher level stuff is something I'd even be interested in.

[@chuniphil]

Same! I'd love to just try out or Pass/Fail the harder classes to just learn and not worry about grades much. That sounds more stressful to even declare a major at UWash. CMU SCS's primary CS major is by admission so that's not as bad. Everyone else can get an "additional" major which is essential the same without gen ed.

[@JBoy340a]

It sounds like the CS program at CMU is like many other programs regardless of degree. Focused on creating people that want to do research in the subject, publish papers, etc. And to some degree the professors are making newer versions of themselves. And this kind of a shame since we need more people that can do things quickly versus research a topic to the nth degree.

[@aryamankukal1056]

this guy got swe internships at amazon and apple, and now works at google, so he's in the top 1% of software enginners and perhaps the top 0.5% of CS majors, and if he says cmu cs is difficult then most of yall should not apply to the school at all

[@lilanhuang5714]

Thank you for sharing your experience and your take on the topic! Your video will definitely help more college students make informed and reasonable decision on choosing major and planning out early career path. I graduated from cmu in 2019 and had similar experience as yours. I have also seen way too many peers around me who got stressed out in college. Speaking up our experience really makes a difference to support each other. Please keep new episodes coming!

[@peacefusion]

It's not your fault if you see a lot of other people going through the same stress. Some colleges are just grade intensive for no reason. Plus, some teachers can really be bad at teaching. This is why online and books have high value. You can learn on your own pace and still enjoy your work. I went through the same thing as a writer taking too many classes all wanting final papers.

[@ChrisChoi123]

im majoring in physics and maths at cmu rn and i dont plan on taking any cs classes. a lot of people tell me its a waste cuz im at the best cs school in the world (maybe besides mit and stanford) but i am very happy never taking a single class of cs here. i took ap cs and system programming with C in high school and i can tell, even though im decent at coding, its just not for me at all. the stress i get from debugging and not knowing whats going on in the class and all of the written exams that are confusingly worded and hard to conceptualise, its just not worth the effort. im sure it pays well and that all of my cs friends will do very well in their lives after they graduate, but im glad that im studying what i am

[@heewonseo2662]

Yeah I talked to alexei and he said you and Aj seemed stressed at cmu. Hope your mental health stays good 👍

[@sdagupat1]

Thank you for your honest & very insightful review about double majoring in CS at CMU !!

[@makotao8645]

what an amazing and inspirational video bro! Really made me reflect on my major choice (CS too). Keep up the good work!

[@griparian]

Great Post. You demonstrated great courage in telling it like it is and sharing your experience at CMU, especially about your mental health environment after spending too long studying, without being able to enjoy life by chilling out. I'm sure that you inspired others to think that their similar experience at CMU or other learning institutions, was validated. Life is far too short to stress out doing the things you love doing. It's important to be able to learn at your own pace. You may not win any awards, but at least you will have your health and happiness. That's what counts in the long term.

[@Mnerd7368]

I am an undergraduate college computer science student with 69 credit hours computer science is very theoretical and mathematical and a lot of heavy mental abstract problem-solving computer programming. I learned C++, Python3, and some computer programming languages.

[@abrahamtio]

vid is true to its description. a useful cautionary memo for anyone in any program. ie. give it a go, with your best effort. if it doesn't work out, at least it's not because of lack of effort.

[@iamneelabh]

Good decision. As long as you learn to solve DSA problems and work on personal projects - you can fetch any good company job offer atleast new grad level.

[@chuniphil]

That’s also what I thought! Thanks!

[@lilunchengsmiles]

I graduated from CMU's School of Computer Science long times ago. I have to agree with you that the CS classes were quite challenging, but many of them were exceptionally valuable. I still vividly recall courses like 211 (Data Structures) and 412 (Operating Systems) - they left a lasting impression, and I even have the books I used during those times. On the other hand, I found the software engineering course to be less impressive. Nevertheless, the education I received at CMU prepared me well for the challenges I've encountered in my work in Silicon Valley.

[@imveryhungry112]

I've never worked on anything at a job as hard as the compiler design class i took in my CS program 😅

[@lilunchengsmiles]

@@imveryhungry112 I took that class too. Yeah very hard but not as interesting as Operating System.

[@minecraftplayee]

I really hope I can get into Info Systems like you did! I also want to double major and I find this really helpful in terms of gaining perspective

[@oldaccount1194]

Only the truly passionate about coding and programming will survive in this course. And very competitive too. As a CS graduate with specialization in Information security. I knew this what I want to be future so nothing I can do about it but just survive thru 4-6 years.

[@Sophia-jf2rk]

Can you elaborate? I’m seeing a lot of comments about people who focus only on programming and coding and not on the science part of computer science being the ones who struggle. I’m doing a computer masters at northeastern, and I went into it because of how fast technology add evolving around me.. I wanted to understand it thoroughly. I studied history in undergrad at ucla and have 0 desire to be a programmer or code. I think it’s corny lol. Do I have chance in the masters if I’m doing it for the sake of personal interest, but don’t like anything about coding because of generally being disillusioned with tech?

[@Sophia-jf2rk]

Was* not add

[@zariyahcampos3565]

truth🎉🎉

[@captainlennyjapan27]

I “dropped” CS at NYU and came to Japan 🇯🇵. Ended up going to Keio University here but with much LESS pressure on CS classes and much MORE time to work on my own projects/ internships etc. I never regret leaving NYU and I also felt it was not worth it for a software engineer 🧑🏻‍💻.

[@melehhaflafel5884]

but isnt being a worker in japan way harder than most western countries?

[@ryzen7428]

@@melehhaflafel5884 no :)

[@汪正吉-f2s]

@@melehhaflafel5884 You are absolutely correct, the salary is not good enough.Besides Japan is not a good place for those who want to pursue tech trend. The industry is using old technology and working on out of dated projects. If you work there for 3 or 4 years and wanted to go back home and find a job, you will find yourself unable to catch up. Also the course quality Keio University provided is much worse than NYU's.

[@captainlennyjapan27]

@@melehhaflafel5884 Nope, it all depends who you work for. Foreign companies (gaishi-kei) or leading tech companies pay well, use the latest tech trend, and offer competitive salaries with good work life balance. In fact many companies in Japan are now applying strict overtime policies.

[@captainlennyjapan27]

@@汪正吉-f2s I disagree. My experience in Keio has been great,and there are so many companies using latest tech stacks. Have you attended both Keio and NYU?

[@SimonLacey-MySleekDesigns]

When I started college for a bachelor's in 3d and animation I didn't even know how to turn on a computer. I thought if I turned it off incorrectly it might break. 4 years later I had built my own computer and learned a bunch of programs. It's doable you just need to work hard and understand that you have to put in a lot of work to get good at it.

[@结实反流]

thank you for the insights ❤

[@eti-iniER]

"At the ceiling of my mental capacity" That is the realest thing I've ever heard about CS. Trying to understand something is almost physical in its intensity... I'm just a first year CS major though. Looking forward to learning more 😅

[@good-tn9sr]

wait till your junior year, especially ur senior. I’m in my senior year and my close friend just switched to IT, which is crazy because of how close he was, but it keeps getting harder and harder

[@Trzntxn]

@@good-tn9srswitching junior or senior yr is baffling to me

[@good-tn9sr]

@@Trzntxn i know. however being a super senior in college for CS is extremely common and many people rather switch to a major they enjoy than suffer more

[@arushigupta8399]

thank you sm for the honesty, i feel very similarly to you, I am applying to cmu and for the longest time I have been between info systems and CS and I have realized that for many reasons that you talked about and things I have considered, it is best to go with information systems

[@johnfox9169]

I graduated Pitt with a degree in math. I took a couple programming classes. Tougher than my Discrete Math and Real Analysis courses. The CS program at CMU , our next door neighbor is legendary, and that's not sn exagg. I credit you for your work AND your wisdom to change direction!!

[@ghostek7792]

OH GOD i am happy you mentioned discrete mathematics. i love math, i got a 98% in univ calc2 , lets just say i'm happy to have passed discrete math with a 74% lol. totally unlike any mathematics I've done and found it really tedious and unenjoyable

[@chuniphil]

Yea DM is on a whole different level from Calc in college lol I actually enjoyed it because I learned how to reason via logic. But the course is super stressful especially in the summer when the course is only half long.

[@Cantor214]

My discrete mathematics professor (not at CMU) was really annoying. During the lectures he constantly asked "do you follow me?, do you follow me!" and then he would stomp his foot in anger.

[@ghostek7792]

@@chuniphil ya it was rough. i did find some parts fun tbh but i guess I just didn't enjoy it as much because i got a little behind and was having trouble understanding certain topics. i did get a 100% on our hand written proof though which made me like it a little more xD

[@mossfloss]

Great honest assessment. Truth is not always easy to say. Good job.

[@OEFTF11]

As a full time employee in another career and being a parent, I made a big mistake taking on an accelerated CS Degree online. I knocked out the intro courses relatively easy, knocked out Calc 1 and Calc 2. Discrete Math 1 wasn’t too bad, but discrete math II is a nightmare. Compounded by the stress of limited time with my job, kids, and my dog battling with cancer 😢. I’m retaking my final this week. But extended Euclidean Algorithms, Big O estimates, worst case analysis, counting techniques with probabilities, recursive functions, RSA keys and cryptology, the stuff is not easy like most forms of math. Discrete math isn’t intrinsic to me at all. I’m gonna keep grinding but at 42 years old running off 3 hours of sleep at night is grinding me down.

[@imveryhungry112]

Watch your health. I did a CS degree at 39 and yeah I finished it but it put some years on my health guarantee it took about 9 years off my total lifespan at least.

[@coolrad4181]

I go to a school that isn’t as highly ranked but still very difficult due to the popularity of the CS program and I 100% relate to a lot of things you said in terms of the time investment. In the beginning it was especially scary to me because there were people who had so much experience before joining while I hadn’t even taken AP CS. Luckily I think I actually fell in love with CS so I was able to catch up and get a good internship as well.

[@z1272]

What school do you go to?

[@coolrad4181]

@@z1272 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute

[@angelacoppola1133]

@@coolrad4181 can you tell me more about Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute? Do you like it?

[@coolrad4181]

@@angelacoppola1133 I’m enjoying my time here because I think the CS program is more on the theoretical side which I really enjoy. There’s also a lot of opportunities for research and it has a really good open source club. It’s not the most social place though and it’s like 65/35 guys to girls but you can find a lot of people to talk to if you look for them. Why do you ask?

[@angelacoppola1133]

@@coolrad4181 My daughter wants to major in CS. She is starting to make her list on schools she might like to attend. I just wanted feedback. Thanks for responding.

[@Calisunshine143]

My husband got his PhD in machine learning at CMU. Students at CMU definitely study hard. I think about 10 students showed up at his office hours when I visited him one day. He had to hold additional office hours. The class (deep reinforcement learning) he was TA-ing for only had like 20 students that semester!

[@ricobandy]

Grad school at CMU is difficult. The workload is insane.

[@Calisunshine143]

@@ricobandy Hubby got his bachelor’s degree from one of the colleges where students study the most. He said cmu’s cs undergrad workload seemed comparable to his college experience. I think just being in Pittsburgh can be tough. The weather is not the best. It is pretty depressing. It is also harder to make friends in grad school than to make friends in undergrad. He almost quit with master’s, but thankfully he saw it through. Having a good advisor is important in finishing Ph.D.

[@bennoarchimboldi6245]

No one cares 😪😪

[@GreatTaiwan]

that's normal in our uni some lectures had like 2 or 3 students there were a lecture were it was only me in the class it was an advanced DB implementation (talking about how SQL optimizer actually were, and how to build your own DBMS in a bit more adv manner)

[@dac8939]

Best thing is do not worry about many classes. We only need like 20-30% of the material. Just plod on and route memories or do tasks to pass classes not interested in. Otherwise will make you crazy

[@CaptTerrific]

Aww, you lived in New House! I was there the first year the dorm opened '04 - '05 - looks like you may have been SHS too :) Good on you for knowing your interests and limits at such an early stage of your life!!! Speaking from half a lifetime later, I promise you that this display of wisdom on your part is worth more than the CS degree :)

[@eliaspuga638]

Your mental health is most important take care of yourself brother.

[@agastyamongia5589]

I haven't even finished watching it yet, but, as a freshman going to college for CS next year, this is an eye-opening video. Thank you.

[@HandsomeJigglypuff]

Thank you for your honesty. I know many people who dropped computer science because it was difficult but they're not so upfront about it. It's good to see transparency.

[@UKYusei]

Im taking computer science now for bachelor's in my first semester

[@gingeral253]

Thank you for sharing your perspective.

[@scottlackey3895]

I really appreciate this video. It confirms what I’ve been thinking. Seems like information systems jobs are easier brut still pay well. I got into a create your own degree program and it allowes me to cherry pick my classes.. we want to make a living but we want to be happy. And we want to learn but we don’t want to be isolated totally from society.

[@chr0matic556]

thank you for sharing your story :)

[@yunglung710]

It’s cool that you shared this. Usually KZbinrs just post their coding “highlight reels”

[@river17006]

I see this at my school too and it’s insane the expectations some professors are and the department has on people. I code on my own and do projects for fun but I know can’t do a major I would struggle a lot.

[@LucasDimoveo]

Pittsburgh is a rough city for some reason. Outside of the UPitt/CMU area things there are just ... dismal. The cloudy skies make it even worse

[@toxicyasuo2897]

thank you for making this video super helpful.

[@gdkid]

I'm in my senior year of high school, and something I've realized over the last few months is similar to what's being presented here - my "passion" for "computer science" was actually just UX design under the hood I have the same problem of not really enjoying practicing leetcode or doing "those" types of problems, meanwhile the way I got into coding was making websites and Discord bots -- that's ALL just UX design if you really think about it, I also started to realize the "CS" class in my high school is basically just another art class to me, much more so than anything to do with STEM, they basically just taught more frontend web dev, and good software design/practices, but didn't really focus on algorithms/logical thinking or what actual CS is so going into uni, I've still picked some cs-related programs to apply to, but also a handful of art/media/visual design related things

[@gilgilbert5866]

I proceeded to acquire a double major from the University of Maryland and I could not be any happier. My academic disciplines' were; Cyber Security/Information Assurance and my 2nd degree is now, Information Systems Management. These two degrees have helped me so much in my post academics and with my employment opportunities

[@ilong4rennes]

I could not agree more with the video as an IS major at CMU who just decided to quit CS. Thanks for making this video!! I feel like many of us here have imposter syndrome and watching this video finally makes me feel that I am not alone.

[@superdahoho]

cs takes a LOT of time. it is the single most time consuming major. specially cs students tend to be very good at what they do and they take that into consideration. I'm trying to avoid using the word smart but feel free to substitute it. The instructors need ways to get a more even distribution, meaning less A's, by making the courses even harder. Another problem is that there's just no time. Specially they don't explain everything in class. lectures are purposely vague so you have do A LOT of research on your own in order to complete assignments. You're always fighting to meet deadlines. you can imagine the stress.

[@chuniphil]

Exactly my point. I wish I had more time in the video to talk about all these :D

[@marshacooper9088]

You are on the mark. It is innate talent. For example in my family there were several very talented classical musicians, they got into Juliard. I took piano, theory and harmony for seven years at private music school. I recognized no innate talent like my sibling, who received scholarship for violin and piano. I would practice 3 hours a day growing up, my sister would practice a fraction of that time and have the music completed to perfection. So, I took the pragmatic route for myself and became a physician . Recently retired after 41 years. So, talent is innate. What you do with the blessing then, is up to you.

[@bulldozer8950]

Here’s what I think some people don’t realize about cs (or really any major) at a hard (and good) university like cmu: just because you did good in terms of grades in high school doesn’t mean you’re good at it. If your high school was like mine, in each cs class the way it worked is everyone more or less either copied or heavily based their code off of someone else’s code in the class. They’d either just straight up copy it and change variable/function name or at least look at it to figure out what steps you need to do to accomplish the goal. Many of the people in university taking cs (and doing good) are the kid who everyone else copied. They didn’t just do good, they did good doing it all on their own and probably figuring it out in 1/4 the time as everyone else.

[@spaceman-pe5je]

if I'm the person people copied is that good then?

[@JosephEarlRZafra]

@@spaceman-pe5je yes sir it means you wrre able to figure out something for your self that with better enhancing figuring out for your self would just be a habit and you will be a genius you can make a genius or born a genius your choice

[@spaceman-pe5je]

@@JosephEarlRZafra well I'm probably not gonna study CS but that's good to know 😄

[@katelyn720]

I attended Pitt literally next door for CS and actually took a CS elective at CMU and i can definitely attest to the difficulty. Day 1 there were more students than seats, after the midterm maybe a third of the class was still there. Also the homework’s and exams were just on another level that I had never seen. I could barely understand the questions and answers are never found in notes or from lecture. Insane…I know the whole class was struggling too cause those exam curves were bigger than anything I had seen at Pitt.

[@ROFLgator1]

CS is no joke, I had to transfer into an "easier" engineering major after the first 2 quarters. I had very little CS experience in high school while some of my classmates had been coding since early teens.......

[@abbylynn8872]

This is why I always tell student definitely consider Software Engineering over CS. You get to do stuff not just learn theory. Nothing funnier than having to teach CS student front end development for their Capstone in a weekend. I wasnt even a Software Developer major, but Business Intelligence. Our programs had first year core so many of our classes crossed over. While wroting code is not instinctive, my troubleshooting skills in any language is off the chart. ❤

[@jasonleetaiwan]

I didn’t see UC Davis on that list. CS was still difficult for most there. I wouldn’t do it again. All I learned from CS was that I didn’t want to program after college. I hated how difficult it became. At least the foundation in math and stats still helped me a bit.

[@sparshgandhi5528]

Really informative video. thnaks for sagrung all the insights.

[@kingbeardog9419]

Go to CTU for a bachelor's in CS. Colorado Technical University is awesome. And you can do it online to. And no need for homework. Graduate in 3 yrs instead of 4. It's a no-brainer plus it has cheaper school costs.

[@DrStrange115-d5z]

Yes!! Man, you really spoke my mind! Instead of going for masters in computer science or artifical intelligence, I am going for masters in IT which is more broad and has less algorithm and complex math stuff. Firstly, i am not internested in complex math and algo stuff. And like you said, I really see NO point of stressing out everyday of my life tackling complex math or algorithmic problems if I had selected those other more complex courses. I had already taken double majors in information systems and finance in my undergraduate years in Singapore and I sacrificed a lot and it paid off as it gave me good tech jobs in banks but honestly, I do not want that to happen again for my masters. I actually want a life and would love to allocate time and energy for my health and other parts of my life (hahas). I have the same conclusion as you, at the end of the day, i just need to land a good job after graduation and if there is any skills I am lacking, i am willing to learn them in my free time and chances are , they are not even covered in a CS major. 👍

[@DarrenLewis-w5o]

I double majored in Math and Physics - started in 1985. I preffered Aerospace, but that was a tight job market. I knew that I'd likely end up in the software industry due to massive growth, but felt that CS was too narrow. Academia was still learning how to teach CS back then (still meh at it). I took CS I and learned nothing. Rumor on campus a year later ran about a new great teacher. I took her course and learned everything I needed to know.

[@drewg7036]

Im still pretty early on in CS at a community college, but as the days go on, I realize how much I dislike coding. I do, howver, love math, even if it isn't my best subject. I really really enjoy Calculus and I cannot wait for Discrete Math. I would switch majors, but I have so many credits that I am gonna run out of financial aid soon, probably before my associate degree is even complete.

[@saitamajay6435]

Math is fun its like a video game and gives you such a good feeling of euphoria when you get an answer correct.

[@JimBobe]

Its okay, not everyone can handle it!

[@mikeyangyang8816]

CMU with a cs degree and master now here. I think CMU is a great place for a lot of people, including me. However, I feel like if your goal is to get a great career, academic performance does little to help you past a point. I know a lot of people who got better careers without being stressed out with the insane CS courses. It really depends on your existing resources, like experiences and abilities. If you have no stand out experience or abilities, CMU CS is probably the best place to grind your way up, in the world.

[@georgesadler7830]

Thank you for the video.

[@honggwan.]

Thank you for sharing your experience.

[@sonatuh]

Honestly you can get a cs job without a degree often just by doing projects and internships till you luck out. Cs has a toxic interviewing process that's extremely stressful and for being the fastest growing profession, it has to be revised how it's done.

[@sirxavior1583]

Your confusing IT vs CS. Anyone can get an IT job without a degree, like devOps. But when it comes to working a job at google developing the next algorithm that runs no slower then O(n) time that's when you'll need a CS degree. The problem is how many FAAMG companies are there requiring this skill? Most jobs won't...there's more general IT jobs out there then pure CS development jobs.

[@sonatuh]

@@sirxavior1583 no I meant CS jobs, like Google. I have plenty of friends in the field who work on the same things as you mentioned.

[@sirxavior1583]

@@sonatuh Earning industry certifications and having the right connections is another route. But it's more common to have a CS degree because it's sorta a checkbox that you meet some kind of standard. Were I live it's become the default standard. Of course when your on the job that's when your true colors shine though.

[@jimmyliu1866]

Thank you for your sincere warning

[@AudenDavis-f4j]

Great Video!

[@sirxavior1583]

As a CS grad I find it a waste of time in Canada, it's quickly becoming oversaturated with new grads all trying to break in. The industry doesn't want to hire new grads there only interested in hiring senior dev's which is in short supply. So what you have here is a large pool of CS grads that can't find work and an industry that can't find people because there hiring from a narrow demographic. Or the lines are blurred between IT and CS. I kid you not i've seen help desk jobs requiring a CS degree here when it should be labeled as an IT job but they don't know the difference.

[@sylvandao]

thank you for sharing this Phil, I'm a graduate in Finance transitioning into IT career and not good at math neither

[@ISangaloUnofficialFR]

college is hard, period. I spent 6 years in college ( grad + masters degree). it's not supposed to be easy or make you feel comfortable.

[@Joseph-co7uh]

I really appreciate your insights. I'm a rising highschool senior planing to apply to colleges for CS/ECE, and apparently CMU is on the top of my list because of the reputation of its CS and ECE program. More importantly, it seems like CMU has courses that teaches students software engineering (17-214, 17-313, etc) in addition to the theoretical algorithms courses. For this reason, I would like to minor in software engineering if I were to get in. From your experience, could you comment on whether or not the software engineering courses really prepare students for working in the industry?

[@chuniphil]

No SWE courses will ever be enough to prepare you, even at CMU. However, the CS algo and SWE courses are indeed super helpful to understand how software works. The CS minor or the SWE minor, plus some practice, should be enough for most jobs.

[@Joseph-co7uh]

@@chuniphil Thank you for your answer! I think summer internships will be really helpful as well.

[@Yavin4]

The problem with the American higher education system is that we do not separate out vocational training from academic training. The purpose of undergraduate programs is to prepare you for graduate programs. They're theoretical by design. They're not designed to prepare you for a career per se. That's where vocational training should be deployed. To explicitly prepare you for start working at a job on day one. If you want a career as a software engineer, you should attend a vocational training academy.

[@theboombody]

A few hours of searching for where I'm supposed to put a missing semicolon in my turbo pascal compiler to get my program to actually run while I was at community college was enough to tell me computer science wasn't for me. But I actually enjoyed math until it started getting close to abstract algebra. I stopped at the bachelor's degree level and then went to graduate business school.

[@YayanArrinaja]

Is business school easier?

[@robnox]

CS70 (Discrete Mathematics and Probability Theory) at UC Berkeley was one of the hardest classes I ever took -- I had to study my ass off to get a decent grade in that class.

[@smimi1531]

Hii I think your videos are super informative and as a prospective IS major I find them really helpful! Do you think you could make video explaining the key differences between CS and IS in terms of classes you took at CMU and if it affects job placement after you graduate. Also just a side question: If you didn’t double major in CS for the 3 years that you did, would just a traditional IS track have prepared you just as well to get a job as a SWE or a job at FAANG? Thanks so much!!

[@chuniphil]

Thanks! I will make videos about my 4-year IS major in the future, and I’d be happy to answer any questions through DMs! Stay tuned! I think a tradition IS track will definitely NOT prepare you for SWE at big N. Many IS majors here can because CMU is excellent and they are excellent, not because the major itself is great. Personally, I self-studies CS and practiced interviewing, and that effort is not any less than taking more CS classes. It took me a while to realize that it’s the school name and effort that count, not the major on your resume. Hope that helps!

[@garyou5084]

Same here, I enrolled in computer science and quitted in first semester. I realized I was so dumb at time cos I was working a part time job and studying a master degree, at the same time, I enrolled undergrad computer science. I was overconfident about my intelligence.

[@-.a9942]

How are you doing now. I’m going through the same. I really thought I could handle it. 😂jokes on me. I’m looking for another major now

[@YayanArrinaja]

Pls share current condition 😊

[@anaablove431]

CS grad from university of michigan who had NO CS background before, if you actual like it it's definitely worth it (doing a phd in it now lmao), but definitely don't do it just because you think it's the right thing to do, bc you will hate your life AND you can definitely get a job with out also, I can relate to the insane stress / burn out / panic attacks, honestly for me as the classes got more advanced I got better at them (since I could actually code at all) and liked them more, ofc I like doing CS research, so they aligned with my interests further I can say I never wanted to be a pure software developer (always planned on some further schooling ig), and a lot of technical requirements in undergrad were filled by my physics minor, so I didn't have to take many upper levels that were outside of my interests

[@chrispycryptic]

I find it fascinating how many people come into a CS major because they enjoy coding or simply because of job prospects or monetary reasons just to bow out before the really good classes start. Personally, I have an intense passion for mathematics, science, and complex technological systems... so much so that I actually changed from an engineering major to a comp sci because engineering was way too... practical... and applied. yick. Computational systems allow me to get my small desire for application to be fulfilled while still getting to spend most of my time in theoretical vector spaces where I genuinely belong.

[@jeffreysiu6149]

Former CMUer CS degree changed to IDS degree. I had a similar experience with all-nighters CS stress and I got allergies instead of your anxiety. Not a good return on investment--Nice way to put it. Upper CS classes like OS, LISP?, and Architecture are not worth 40 hours a week of stress to ace. It will stress you out affecting your body, mind, and social life! --I Aced 15-211 C with 138 on the final but stressed me out with allergies from lack of sleep. Also, don't guarantee usefulness for any Job Interview!

[@johnwest7993]

Science and technology are hard. There are limits to what the human mind can handle.

[@PokeShadow77]

3:24 that's me right there, nice word choice kek

[@Fleato]

im getting a little lucky here in that I've completed all of my math/science classes at seton hill before I transfer off to Pitt for comp science/ electrical and computer engineering. discrete math was the last one I took, even after doing calc 4 and physics 3. discrete is just brain bending and I also lived in office hours. I'm doing most of my CS stuff at seton hill currently an dhonestly I feel like I'm learning absolutely nothing in class. I have to use outside tools where I am learning everything from (code academy)

[@Daydy2222]

You might want to try NEU, Northeastern University which is run on a totally different philosophy.

[@andrewthomas4941]

I went through the same thing when I was majoring in CS during my first year of college, and could not do any of the homework so, I ended up giving up on CS after the semester was over