I FINALLY CAVED, COREXY - GIANT 3D PRINTER BUILD PT. 4

[@SeanHodgins]

First print will be a corner piece to an even larger printer. 😁

[@ivanmirandawastaken]

Deal! 👊

[@kevinb2738]

@@ivanmirandawastaken I sure hope it will max out the print area!

[@aserta]

@@ivanmirandawastaken Make a printer that's mounted on the walls of the room you're in, also using COREXY. :)

[@3dpchiron709]

Perhaps with 'belt & pinion' - would be cool to see, and less problems with tension/stretching.

[@PCBWay]

Hey Sean, caught you there 😊

[@PCBWay]

Our pleasure to help you fab these parts out and most importantly, nice content as always, Ivan 👍

[@ivanmirandawastaken]

Cheers!

[@ionstorm66]

@@ivanmirandawastaken What is the cost of those pulleys in aluminum though?

[@MichaelWoodrum]

@@ionstorm66 I want the same answer. I thought about getting a quote to see if it is worth it or not. However, if they do not exist already off the shelf, the cost could be worth it. Hopefully it is low enough to not regret the purchase after the fact. Inevitably this size of printer is going to become commonplace in the next few years and the parts will be readily available. I have been collecting parts for a couple years and plan on making one at least this size. I just need the space.

[@jesuslovesyou5819]

$1000

[@MichaelWoodrum]

@@jesuslovesyou5819 that would be too much, for sure. I hope it's not that high.

[@AlexIstrate_Ro]

I'm pretty sure that Polymaker has a dedicated factory just for the red filament.

[@marc_frank]

just for Ivan

[@onewa712]

maybe not before, but now they need to xD

[@Craftlngo]

They have a factory dedicated only for Ivan

[@SidneyCritic]

I count 33 boxes, how many kg is that.

[@marc_frank]

@@SidneyCritic 165?

[@benhobby17]

Here’s the CoreXY explainer comment! The primary goal, as Ivan said, is to reduce the moving weight of the system. By keeping the motors stationary, you accomplish this. Unfortunately, it becomes difficult to isolate the movement of the motors into the two separate X and Y axes, so they end up getting combined like he demonstrated. Previously, in industrial machinery with very stiff gantries, you could accomplish this with a kinematic system called an H-bot (called this because the belt forms an H shape), which was very simple and didn’t involve any belt crossing. It does however, REQUIRE the gantry to be very stiff, as X direction moves applied force to only one side of the gantry, exerting a twisting force on it. With the advent of 3D printers, pretty much the first consumer-tier high speed cartesian robots, a new system was needed, in order to not require a super stiff (and therefore heavy and expensive) gantry. CoreXY had been used throughout history, most notably in computerized drafting tables, but didn’t see it’s big moment until people realized it’s perfect for fast (or in this case very large) 3D printers. As for how each system actually works: here’s a quick explainer: - H-bot kinematics use one very long belt, which wraps around each motor with both ends at the carriage. This means that there is only one way to pull the carriage in each direction. Since each end comes from a different side of the gantry, those same forces are applied to only one side of the gantry, causing it to twist. - CoreXY kinematics essentially just double up the H-bot design, adding a second belt, running in the opposite direction to the first (with one motor per belt) so that each carriage move produces two equal and opposite forces on the gantry, cancelling out the twisting forces.

[@ivanmirandawastaken]

Told'ya

[@benhobby17]

@@ivanmirandawastaken Just doing my job ;)

[@TDOBrandano]

I built a CoreXY, well, I modded my weird XY bedflinger to be a CoreXY bedflinger, and there is always a tradeoff. In the case of the CoreXY, you trade the mass on one axis for much longer belts that are a bit more prone to ringing. And you still have one axis with a greater mass than the other. A crossed gantry design (sometimes called "quadrap") has shorter belts and both axes have the same mass, but it requires more hardware to prevent racking.

[@staticred1559]

For extreme large machines like this a cross xy gantry would work better. Way shorter belt so less resonance on it.

[@benhobby17]

@@TDOBrandano yeah, honestly on something this big I’d probably do rack and pinion or a stationary belt drive just for precisions sake. Most of the time spent printing is gonna be long straight lines, so the lower accelerations needed for a heavier gantry wouldn’t have as much of an impact on print time.

[@Mueller3D]

For folks building their own printer: When tensioning the belts on coreXY, you need to keep the Y-gantry square with the frame. The easiest way to do that is to move it to one end of the printer and tie it down there temporarily while you tension the belts. When you pull on one belt, it will want to move the gantry out of square, and this is normally held in check by the tension from the other belt. This is why both belts need to have the same tension, and why you need the gantry held square while the belt tensions are uneven while being adjusted.

[@jek__]

Aw man I love this kind of engineering, everything is so modular and well planned/fitting. Bolts everywhere, no destructive connection. It's like a giant toy lol

[@amazac9869]

foam filling will reduce noise or stick some rubber sheet in different locations to stop reverberations and hollow tubes that are magnifying the sound. awesome built Ivan. Well done

[@JoeyBlogs007]

00:34 Fantastic explanation. You made it simple to understand the Core-XY system of movement.

[@jurgieke]

change the idles with puly's so the ribs of the belt doesnt slide over the idlers -> makes it more silence and less vibrations.

[@iamasgroup]

Bravo, excellent design, Ivan. All of those long-length belts and frame stability are a big challenge. I can't wait to see the printing quality of this machine. Keep going

[@deandavies1462]

your videos are truely inspirational, youve given me the belief I can make things myself, I am currently making a 3D printed CNC router that can cut a full sheet of plywood. I am 1 week of continual printing into printing out the parts. hopefully in the near future I will say I have made something!!!!!

[@zakariakhamees]

I am making a cnc too. Good luck mate!

[@DMonZ1988]

super awesome work Ivan! congrats on the first try success! :P i think a large part of the sound and belt vibrations are coming from the belt teeth running over smooth idlers(/bearings). i'm pretty sure you can buy appropriate idlers and it not get PCBway to hook you up. the pallet of polymaker filament is pretty sweet, but maybe ask them for pellets and a pellet extruder. alternatively, a multi-input hotend like the diamond, modded with multiple heat zones and drilled out to 1mm+ will let you push lots of filament and multiple spools at the same time.

[@bee2hive]

You can also turn over the belt so it rolls on the flat side. It just take some clever additional pullies to engage with the motor-pulley

[@kaimelis]

@@bee2hive or he could just use toothet idlers...

[@Doodifur]

I was going to make the same comment about the smooth idlers, I'm also interested IF they'll leave any noticeable printing artifacts Regardless this build is badass and i can't wait to see it print :)

[@salinjr]

Your work here in Brazil is very good, I'm inspired by your project and making one half the size of yours, thanks for giving us great ideas!

[@Rouverius]

Seriously amazing. It seems straight forward but CoreXY is still a mystery to me. Hey, thanks for the constant encouragement at the end of your videos. I'm finally back working on one of my project while watching this.

[@pmklingberg]

Ivan, thank you for your video series. In industrial robotics what you have made is called an H-bot. They are perfect for this type of application where the Z height of the end effector (print nozzle in this case) remains constant. The sound you are is a byproduct of the resonant frequency of the components connected to the source (motors). Adding mass or dampeners at the right locations will reduce the amplitude of the transmitted sound. This could be a block of rubber next to the motors inside the hollow aluminum tube or filling the tubes with sand or other material.

[@grahamstewart79]

In the lingo of 3d printers, an h-bot is different from core xy. An h-bot uses a simpler belt routing, but has the disadvantage of causing torque on the moving axis.

[@simontanguay3619]

Very nice looking printer. If you are looking to make it even more insane, you could upgrade to a CoreXY AWD by adding 2 more steppers at the idlers. It would give you greater stiffness in the belts thanks to shorter paths between motors and gantry as well as more acceleration. If you want to lighten up your X axis, machining pockets in the aluminium extrusion is a known way to do it as long as you don't remove too much metal. Or straight up use a square carbon fiber extrusion. That way you lower the moving mass. The frame itself already seems very stiff, using steel instead of aluminium could improve that. Since it is immobile, that added mass is no big problem and will help damp gantry induced vibrations. Sand filling could also work. Don't know what kind of hotend you plan to use (maybe even a custom one?), but with this size it better be a very high flow one to take advantage of such a large print volume.

[@adamchurchley6095]

I love it, It's a new type of musical instrument right? The 3d printed corners and most parts are hollow PLA Chambers that amplify the resonance of the steppers. IMHO -Silent drivers? - add dampening material in the corners and bars. Add weights to the frame that can be placed in various spots to reduce the resonance noise across the beams. Turnbuckles would work really well as a replacement to the current bracing system allowing you to use a synthetic fiber (NON-stretch) to decouple vibrations, allowing for increased tension to tune out vibrations. I have also had great success at reducing Motor noise by strapping large heatsinks or weights (non-Ferris) to the side of a stepper to reduce vibrations in stationary motors. Nice Project cannot wait to see this print or at least play a nice tune.

[@Elmaxhappy]

La verdad es que estoy flipando con los proyectos que haces Ivan. Y esta impresora tiene una pinta alucinante. Impaciente por ver el siguiente vídeo.

[@NoBaconForYou]

Más vídeos!

[@333donutboy]

Your wire management is really nice. I wish I had the patience to do that.

[@Craftlngo]

on a printer this large, you have to manage the wires or you'll run into problems at one time.

[@Vez3D]

Very clean build 👌 i like your wire management. Awesome progress. Cant wait to see the rest. Good job

[@pauserratgutierrez]

Each video makes me more proud of being one of your subs. Thanks for leting me know you with these videos! Keep up the amazing and inspiring work!!

[@become3d-xyz]

Definitely one of my favorite video in a while. I really enjoy when you talk about the process along the way

[@ivanmirandawastaken]

My pleasure!

[@ИльяКоролёв-в2к]

Ivan, very cool videos from the very beginning I have been following all your projects.

[@KyleofAsgard]

Very cool to see it work first try :D I just finally finished building your desktop cnc, was so thrilled when I got everything working and moving around, such a great feeling :D

[@ivanmirandawastaken]

Yes!! WELL DONE!

[@medyk3D]

9:23 that winner smile 👍 well deserved, great job!

[@JoeTheWiltshire]

Love the last shot with the camera on the gantry 😁 this project is amazing!

[@Craftlngo]

One source of the noise are the teeth of the belts running over ball bearings instead of fitting pulleys. The xy System should then be significantly quieter

[@kelanel]

Nice setup. One trick to confirm that there's equal tension (without a belt tension tester) on the belts is to pluck them and hear the sound on an equal distanced area like across the back of the back of the printer. then you can use a guitar tuner or by ear and hear if they have similar tone.

[@rcmaniac25]

I enjoy that you explained the model you were printing even though you weren't printing

[@paulthetexan]

The captions are great - apparently when the gantry moves, it's "foreign music" and "applause". Excellent video as usual!

[@flubba86]

I think the teeth of the belts moving around the idler bearings at the corners is contributing to the extra noise. Should those be toothed gears at those corners for the belt teeth to ride on?

[@stuartbrumett6118]

Love the sci-fi spaceship sounds from the motors running, though if you find it gets annoying maybe switching to idlers with teeth on them might be quieter than the belt teeth running over the smooth idlers?

[@magnetwhisperer]

Extremely impressive work as always, Ivan! This thing is turning into a seriously solid fabrication rig. Super excited to see what’s next. :)

[@robytryall]

Tap drill for M4 is 3.3mm with Aluminium you can also go lower to 3.2mm, if you want holding quality threads.

[@wsseibert]

Love your design! can't wait to see it fully functional. Thought; Have you given any thought to some additional cooling on the stepper motors? Maybe some additional cooling would help insure they don't get to hot and burn up...? not sure it'll help with the noise, but may be something to look into? Great job, keep the content coming!

[@rustycrustytriesstuff]

Something about the sound of that machine is so satisfying!😂👍🏻

[@johnmcnamara3719]

Great machine....:) Sounds like bigger idler bearings will reduce the noise a lot. I can hear the belt teeth impacting on the skate board bearings. Put a couple of bearings on a shaft in the vice and run a loop of belt by hand to test if I am right.

[@cy-one]

Given the size of the gantry and the weight of the linear rails, I wonder if the Exoslide-system wouldn't be better in such a case.

[@PascalVos]

Hey Ivan, please check out vzbot AWD for example adding 2 more motors on top :) shorter paths realy would help this build ! the shorter the paths the less problem with torque cause of the heavy belts adding 2 more motors on the top would realy make a big difference a specialy for a printer this size :)

[@Bogm8]

At that point, crossed gantry would probably be more worth it imo- significantly shorter belt paths and a lot more rigidity

[@MCsCreations]

That's just brilliant, Ivan! Fantastic work! 😃 Looking forward to the next step! Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@phazei]

So, here's a tip for making it much quieter. This worked for my coreXY, but it's only 300x300. The belts, if you twist them once, 180deg, between the motor and the fixed corner, then the smooth side of the belt will run along the pulleys in all the corners.

[@havasss]

I love your designs. Clean and simple. 👌 I'm not a CoreXY fan btw. This belt is long enough to make problems.

[@Nordic_Mechanic]

i tried the polymaker pteg recently and was extremely satisfied

[@nickmegert4662]

Loved the corexy video pov at the end was awesome.

[@Perram]

Awesome! Your enthusiasm and creativity have inspired me. This is an amazing project, like many of your others, and I can't wait to see how it goes!

[@nonfam4594]

Awesome!! I cant wait to see it printing and all the crazy project you will do with it!! 😀👍

[@BTom16]

Great build. The design and implementation is very impressive. Thank you!

[@rogerbecker5607]

I built a core xy printer (Voron 2.4) and not sure how you ran the belts but you should be able to to run the smooth side on the bearings. You may want to look up their design to see how it was done.

[@jase171973]

toothed bearing, rather than a smooth one.

[@rusticagenerica]

@@jase171973 also :) Would help

[@grumpywoodchucker]

WOW....this thing gets better and better!

[@SmokeandLights]

@7:41 That is some REALLY satisfying cable management.

[@magnetomage]

Given the rigidity and hollowness of the frame, and the tightness of the belts, are you at all concerned about the printer being one big audio resonator? Would it be worthwhile to add dampeners or fill to the frame?

[@rusticagenerica]

Or maybe a stereo amplifier?

[@curtiswiancko693]

you should print sleeves for the bearings with the tooth count it should reduce the noise and make it more smooth on the belts might increase life to

[@pintokitkat]

It sounds like a racetrack! Is the noise caused by the belt teeth on the smooth pulleys and if so, wouldn't it be quieter to have toothed pulleys?

[@3DMakerNoob]

Bella barked at 10:55 - you might be onto something in the dog calling market lol

[@ivanmirandawastaken]

lol, the pup can recognise a good machine juat by the sound of it.

[@josecarloscarrion3652]

Impresionante Iván. Gracias por todo Saludos

[@H34...]

Thats some nasty stepper whine. I suggest something like the nano zero stepper (servo) from misfit tech, or the mks servo boards. Much quieter, plus you can up acceleration and speed without fear of losing steps. I use the nano zero boards on the nema23s we have on a 1.5x3m plasma cutter at work. Dead silent.

[@SeanTaffert]

Reminds me of the 1m^3 Hevort I designed and built last year. Nice work.

[@siggyincr7447]

I'd be tempted to fill that hollow frame with some sort of resin/shot aggregate to add some stiffness and reduce the resonance.

[@TheMidnightSmith]

Sir, you have brass ones to stand THAT close to tensioned, untested belts at that speed lol. Looks amazing! Can't wait too see the hotend choice!

[@jupiterbelic5826]

Agree with others that said to replace the smooth idlers with toothed idlers

[@SidneyCritic]

You could machine/grind a slot along the length of the rail from the bottom flange base up the web to reduce the mass - lol -. You could also drill holes up from the bottom flange to make it lighter.

[@jarekmace1536]

When are you going to pull a Snapmaker and develop interchangeable heads for these monster printers? I'm imagining your tank with a custom cut Plexiglass type front and side screens for tank battles. Or removable safety shields for your printers to keep heat in and still be able to see what's going on.

[@hazard4]

That's a thing of beauty!

[@4833504F]

Toothed idler pulleys would probably be good with belts that coarse, maybe also use a larger radius

[@AndrewBoraas]

you should order some mellow 3d 5160 v1.2 pro drivers, they can do 6 amps and have stealthchop which would get rid of like 80 percent of that noise

[@zackschumann5521]

Your cable routing is legendary

[@kaneeskansenthuran7645]

Nghe Phúc hát mà nước mắt rơi mãi ....quá nhiều cảm xúc ùa về, quá nhiều kỉ niệm. Cảm ơn Đức Phúc thật nhiều, giọng hát anh ấm tựa nắng mùa Thu vậy.

[@Mitch3D]

I was hoping for a large Ivan built delta printer but your ceiling is not 5m tall. Very nice CoreXY build and explainer, I have experimented with a model as well and the only issue I found was the belt length and if either side tension is looser it could skew the gantry. For 3D printers it's not nearly as necessary as if this was a cnc machine with side loads.

[@ivanmirandawastaken]

I could make a hole I guess...

[@Mitch3D]

@@ivanmirandawastaken you don't need a roof, it doesn't rain in Spain right?

[@НиколайНиколаев-п7с]

Usually for massive big print bed used other kinematics. Print bed not moving. Vertical up moving print head.

[@paulrichard1307]

Fill the stationary frame with sand to reduced the amplified noise of the steppers and reduce vibration.

[@MCsCreations]

Well... It's sounding like a spaceship... I don't know if changing it would be a good idea... 🤔

[@theexchipmunk]

There have been tests, other then being a danger to the mechanics, filling spaces so comparatively small with sand does not help.

[@nathan1sixteen]

That is a great way to do nothing and get sand everywhere and destroy your mechanism

[@AeroGraphica]

Better to use PU foam to absorb resonance and ringing of frame tubes.

[@JamesUKE92]

Could some of the vibration be from the toothed belt going over small round idlers? Or is it all motor switching noise?

[@ncstudio333]

You're absolutely inspiring man!

[@gqinc1202]

i think most of the noise is the ribs of the belt going along the smooth bearings in the corners, you may try to make a gear for each bearing the ribbed side runs across, and i think it will greatly reduce the noise

[@gqinc1202]

or at least reduce vibration significantly

[@CoolAsFreya]

Considering the size of the machine and the torque of the motors a little grease on the idler axles could help some of the noise and shouldn't affect performance

[@Psychlist1972]

Is the noise amplified by all those hollow tubes? If so, you could fill them with high density spray foam or something else light but, erm, filling.

[@TheDistur]

You're a good sport Ivan. I hope this printer makes your dreams come true!

[@meshkatsaiam]

I can feel the thrill just by watching the machine moving!!

[@MultiBigDenis]

fill the hollow profile with mounting foam, the sound will be quieter...

[@MrExo_3D]

ensure all belts are totally parallel and corners/idlers are all at 90 degrees. gantry squareness is determined by equal belt tension.

[@wrxsubaru02]

What if you used some kind of spray foam inside the metal frame? do you think it would help on sound? I am thinking some automotive type foam not the kind on your house. You may need to do some kind of resonance noise tuning as well.

[@owensparks5013]

So if we consider the corner pieces at 3:50, scale them up so they fill the whole bed of this printer then the next printer that uses those parts will be the size of a two storey building. Now that could print a tank...

[@Craftlngo]

yeah a print-in-place tank 😁

[@ericserafim7954]

Even the noise is nice 😅. Great job. I'm excited to see the first printing.

[@mathiashoppe5240]

Try using a belt with smaller bumps so you can have milimetric presicion, since with that belt you only get the presition of one of that bumps (which looks big)

[@ProtesttheAntagonist]

I don't see another comment saying it yet so: you should probably get pulleys printed for the idlers too. Crushing belt teeth into bearings drastically increases wear on them. It's only 4(or 6 depending on layout) anyway.

[@cutty02]

I love polymaker filament

[@hadtstec]

You need to use teethed idlers for the belts at the back that touch the belt teeth.

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

Might need to look at replacing the washers on the roller guide parts to get less up and down movement of the belt. That is going to translate into slight location errors.

[@aliciahoflack138]

the ball bearings one the corners of the XY system wouldn't they wear out the belt? should you not replace them by a belt gear?

[@n.gravey3735]

You are a madman. Brilliant!!

[@onepanther69]

I always feel so bad for you when you have to do a redesign...it was also so awesome the gantry moved correctly first time

[@lucaburkhardt2592]

Could you do core XYZ with the Z axis included, so basically just an extruder floating in space, being pulled and held by cables? No gantry

[@dad0033]

need to get idler with teeth for the inside of the belt , it will likely increase quality and reduce some of that noise ....

[@MarinusMakesStuff]

Awesome Ivan! I do really want to know what kind of motors and drivers you use, because I think that the sound could be dampened a lot by using the correct settings.

[@OldCurmudgeon3DP]

Another awesome video, sir. Those movements looked normal speed for a desktop printer. However, the size of your frame means that the hotend carriage was moving a lot faster than it looked. I'm guessing you'll need a massive heater and melt zone. This thing will be epic when you get it completed. 🦾🦾👍

[@stephank1965]

Absolutely brilliant work👏👏

[@koushikraj9815]

ivan i have a suggestion to upgrade to dual extrusion sets (1 mm and 0.4 mm nozzle). you can save 5X time for printing

[@juansalmeronmoya]

Girando las correas para que el contacto con los rodamientos sea por el lado plano seguramente reduzca muchísimo el ruido.

[@yomboprime]

Why can't I like this video more than once!!!

[@erick2will]

Absolutely outstanding! I love your projects!

[@Mikesukes]

Your stepper noise is from the drivers. My CNC mill was loud until i installed these STEPPERONLINE DM860T drivers now it is almost silent.

[@NaF_Art_Studio]

admirable effrots. thanks for sharing.