I GOT BANSHE RUSHED FIRST TIME - Starcraft 2 - Getting Good - Silver League 1v1 Terran Vs Terran

Hello Everyone,
Ollie here and back with another Starcarft 2 1v1. This time Terran vs Zerg.
Another game of Silver League!
Well, today I experiment my first ever Banshe rush, and it was pretty insane. I think I dealt with it about as well as expected.
Hope you enjoy :D
What I'd love to know is where you think I can improve.
As always, I'd love your feedback and comments, I'm enjoying getting better with your help!
Look forward to chatting next time.
Ollie
Discord - / discord
TikTok - @ollieoliverkyriacou
Twitter - @oliverkyriacou
#starcraft2 #starcraft #1v1 #competative #tank #terran #trade #main #siege #terran #competative #competitive

[@RotsorKG]

Others have commented on decisions that led to the crisis (surprise banshee attack), but I think the biggest mistakes happened during the crisis management itself. I think at 7:02 (6:24 game time) when you saw the banshees, you needed to estimate the magnitude of the threat and see that this threat is lethal (5 banshees is easily sufficient to kill everything you have on the ground) At that point you must quickly find a way to repel the banshees *eventually*. That doesn't mean jumping straight into the fight (the opposite, in fact!), but it does mean you need to act fast and precise. To fight them on the ground, you *absolutely* needed turrets, many turrets, urgently, not one per base. Why do people often recommend 1 per base? Two reasons: - harassment banshees don't come in quantities sufficient to kill a turret (normally have 1 or 2), but here we had 5 - even though 1 turrent doesn't cover sufficient radius to protect everything, it is enough to give your scvs time to survive until the ground army arrives. here we had no army capable of defeating the banshees This means you should have panic-made at least 3 turrets per base, probably more, covering the mineral lines and key buildings. Vikings should have been another priority, since even 1 viking can kill all banshees eventually. You saw banshees at 6:24 game time, you only tried to make viking at 7:54. (and even then prioritized cyclones over vikings which is also a mistake) Hurting your opponent's economy is good, but being distracted on that at such a critical time is another big mistake. Especially since you know you're far ahead economically, and if you survive the attack you will be fine. I think chasing banshees with inferior marine count is also a mistake, but the opponent didn't really fight so you weren't punished for that one. Preserving your marines and using them to defend turrets would have been better. Obviously making mistakes is completely expected, especially if you've never seen such an attack before. Just writing this hoping this is helpful for the future!

[@Voidspacealpha]

Very helpful, thanks. I will work on this and I think get better at spotting this kind of thing. Cheers

[@MrDenniy]

You notice no expand at 4min45 and react by building expansion. No expand at 2:30 is not atypical. But at 4:45, it should be full alarm klaxon blaring in your head. Make units, bunkers, turrets, etc. Your already ip a whole base, if he doesn’t hit you on the next 40s, you will win by virtue of superior income, so expect that he WILL hit you very soon.

[@Voidspacealpha]

Yup, should have seen it coming

[@metrick00]

A lot of people already talked about the banshee rush, but I noticed something that may help on your broader army control. I noticed that you're using TONS of control groups for your structures, but these become a very expensive premium as you get more and more into the game. Especially when you start doing things like splitting drop ship groups or controlling spellcasters. If you set all your production structures to one tab that you add to then you can tab through them, reliably having 0 tabs be barracks, 1 be factory, and 2 be starport. Then you can move your CC and production to the keys 4 and 5 (I personally use 4 for production and 5 for CC's) to clear out those 3 for unit control. Definitely not important this early, but adjusting the muscle memory later can be a real hassle.

[@Voidspacealpha]

yeah I've heard this a lot, ill give it a go

[@ladylynxelot9925]

This is one of those things that just happens, where you got "skill checked." This particular check will happen with Banshees, but you would've been just as dead if those were two battlecruisers teleporting in at that time. The reason you died here is not down to your build, or your decisionmaking, or the fact that you didn't make a viking. Of course, all of these things would've fixed your problem outright versus the banshees - but you'd have died if you had a singular viking against Yamato BCs as well. The thing that killed you here was floating 1700 minerals and 300 gas by the time the Banshee's have hit, on top of spending 550 minerals on the third base orbital. If those 2250 minerals had been put into marines and extra production, you would have ~3 extra barracks and ~35 extra marines. The units you would have "extra" alone would be enough to kill five banshees. Heck, for the most part, you could've still made the third base and have had enough units with the money you were floating to destroy his Banshee. Don't work on trying to alter your playstyle or your reactions yet. Your fundamentals is what's killing you. Workers, production, units. You don't need to learn how to scout, or react, or panic manage your stuff, until your fundamentals are much sharper. Just spending your money and expanding properly will take you to gold+.

[@Voidspacealpha]

yeah you're absolutely right, I should have focused on more production, which I know from the feedback is a weak point of mine. I'm getting better at it, but I still have a way to go clear. Thanks man

[@JosepPi]

Hey man! love your journey! I don't know if someone already told you but a good tip as a QoL is that instead of leaving the game and go straight to the score screen, you press the button "Quit and Rewind" and all the replay is going to stay in memory for you to go through it faster, without having to wait for it to load again. Very convenient. Good luck on your climb!

[@Voidspacealpha]

oh cool thanks man. I didn't know that, cheers. And thanks for the kind words

[@tacocritic]

You handled the situation pretty while considering you haven't had it happen before! As usual, your thought process was good along the way. You noticed he hadn't expanded, figured he must be up to something, and started planning for a surprise. There are a lot of ways you could have recognized what was coming, and even more ways you could have responded and microed against it, but forget all that! Just keep focusing on saturating your bases and building an army. You'll occasionally get caught off guard by things like this, and that's totally fine - I think once you get to gold, you can start working on some responses to things like this. At this stage, getting your money converted to units will allow you to overpower even attacks like this. Cheers!

[@Voidspacealpha]

Converting my money into units is the ONLY thing I really need to focus down on right now.

[@Th3Vampir3Knight]

I used to love doing gas first banshee builds in HoTs. They're not as common anymore because cyclone raven exists in LOTV. With the cyclone nerfs this patch, viking raven may be a better response to banshees. You could also build an ebay then a missile turret if you know for a fact he went gas first.

[@Voidspacealpha]

Yeah totally, need to look for this in the future

[@Talandhar190]

Espero que hayas aprendido varias cosas 1- a Good scout would have gave You victory 2- timing push defeat macro 3- Banshees are strong to kill workers 4- Only 1 viking would have killed all those Banshees

[@Voidspacealpha]

Yeah I know, the one game where I produce medivacs first and I get stomped It was a good learning lesson

[@yaranaika0_o]

Start your 2nd gas after factory if you are playing gas expand, repair your cc if thats needed, vikings and 2-3 turrets on each mineral line is enough to deal with banshees. Also you can try playing other build orders with reaper from barrack to scout smth like that. Also i'll recommend to drop marines only with stims, and make vikings or reactor on starport, then medivacs when your stim ready

[@Voidspacealpha]

Okay cool, sounds good, I’ll try to incorporate this, totally makes sense on the anti air

[@UncleCedrov]

You can usually get a lot of information if you are allowed to poke up the ramp with your scouting SCV, the rest of what happens and follow up mistakes are less relevant if you can adress the cause of why you got into the unfavourable position in the first place

[@Voidspacealpha]

Yup, totally get that now, and now I know to look for something, like multiple reactors for example

[@charleysimmons427]

This one was actually really close even if it didn't feel like it. Had you pulled scvs to go make a secret base and pulled your entire army to attack you could have targeted his workers and CC since he was on one base. Without those things you would've slowly won as he couldn't get any more resources for the rest of the game. Another way would've been to pull your units back to defend after killing his workers. That would've been a victory as you deal heavy damage to his economy being bases over him you could afford to take extensive damage to one or even two bases. As long as you pull your scvs to safety during the attack you win that exchange. don't worry about the hiccup it happens to the best of us just keep polishing your game man. btw you can see the shimmer of banshees so that you can scan on them it's all the vision a Terran needs really.

[@RotsorKG]

I'm not so hot on base trading there. Banshees can find and kill any new base you're making and if they use banshees defensively Marines can't fight because they don't have detection. Obviously a lot of things can go wrong for the banshee player, too.

[@charleysimmons427]

@@RotsorKG in that condition it would work because the banshee maker had only one base and a low banshee count. If the conditions were different I would agree.

[@RotsorKG]

@@charleysimmons427 I wouldn't call that low at all. They had 5 to start with and there were extras arriving, so perhaps 7 if not more?

[@charleysimmons427]

@@RotsorKG I get what you mean there is just no way his opponent out trades there though. look at the game he almost killed his opponents only cc as it was. While having a near untouched expansion at that point had he used more of his army and pulled scvs to build a base and/or turrets. he would have won that trade since his opponent would run out of stuff soon his opponent was on a clock and still had one turret to fight. had he not sacced some units to the banshees they could have went to his expansion to hold the banshees, and do enough damage so he could catch up on anti air/air. tbh the only reason he lost there is lack of experience against air rush which he is getting a lot of experience with these last few games. Also, the best way to beat this was early harass since they were playing greedy, but I just don't know if that is the best advice here.

[@Voidspacealpha]

Secret bases used to be something I did a lot, and now not so much. I should get back into that habit I think, for my third perhaps.

[@andrewb1986]

Oh man... make vikings... This kind of falls into the category of "my opponent did something weird: go kill him." I know it seems pretty oppressive the way this turned out, but I could tell you noticed this was one of those games that your opponent is doing something weird. 5:17 This kind of "WTF is he doing?" moment is exactly what you're looking for. He hasn't expanded, he's not at your front door, just un-siege your tanks, walk across the map and kill him.

[@Voidspacealpha]

I apreciate this actually, I should have done this

[@andrewb1986]

@@Voidspacealpha The easy part is recognizing something weird is happening, the hard part is training yourself to react appropriately.

[@Voidspacealpha]

Don’t I know it

[@Voidspacealpha]

Oh don’t I know it :p

[@Talandhar190]

Scout incompleto, You need to confirm your oponents expansion

[@Voidspacealpha]

Yeah, I was so worried about being rax proxied I didn’t even consider a banshee counter, it’s the first time it happened to me

[@toddmcghee2207]

If you see they're on 1 base, you should never take a third. Also a scan of their main would have told you about the banshees. It's worth the scan every time.

[@Voidspacealpha]

Okie dokie, next time I see them on 1 base that long I’ll drop a scan in

[@skipp3252]

Out of all the games to not build vikings hahah yea a single viking wins you the game there, because banshees don't shoot up. It was almost commical to watch. First you forget your starport exists for 5 minutes. Then you spend all of your gas on queuing up cyclones so when you try to build vikings you can't. And then when you try again you are supply blocked and leave the game. You couldve probably still relocated your starport next to the turret, got out one viking and still won the game because of your eco advantage ^^ But GG, good learning opportunity.

[@Voidspacealpha]

I know right! What rotten luck 😂

[@tuwumuch]

:) starcraf

[@Voidspacealpha]

:)