I hate The Greatest Showman more every moment

Justice 4 Jenny Lind.
I think Hugh Jackman will just take literally any project that lets him sing and it's extremely endearing but his enthusiasm did not save this.
Click what you miss most about circuses
Hitting a lion with a chair - / jennynicholson
A bearded lady singing gospel riffs - / jennyenicholson
The ringmaster dancing center-stage and dominating most of the frame when he is the least interesting component of the show - / spider_jewel
Clowns, which I didn't see even once in this circus movie - / spiderjewel
Laughing at short man - / jennynicholsonvids

[@saranobutt]

I actually loved Ghost in the Shell, even though so much people gave it crap.

[@Beastmig3415]

Huh. Unsure why this is pinned

[@MotherAce]

also, your opinion is bad. And you should feel bad. But seriously, why did you like it? Have you seen the original? Just liking something because other people found it to be crap isn't a justification. (for the record, I didn't hate it either, but it completely misses the point by the original and focuses on very different things. Its not exactly bad, but doesn't hold a candle to the 1995 version)

[@thxstrax5239]

Ghost in the shell was amazing! I’ve never since the first movie or anything but, this new movie was great it was very aesthetically pleasing. Also Scarlett Johansson was the perfect actor for the lead.

[@SlurpeeTheUnholy]

I for one have seen the original and that's exactly what made me appreciate the new one so much. After I finished watching the original it was so goddamn boring and pointless I felt like I may as well have been staring at the wall for 90 minutes. The new one has everything that worked about the original while also being even remotely engaging, which is a huge improvement.

[@Mageneated]

Jenny pinned sara so we will laugh at Her, much like Hugh Jackman gathered his freaks in his circus Art mirrors life

[@becca2525]

My favourite thing that makes no sense about the Bearded Lady is that her armpits are shaved, in an era that doesn't even care about armpit hair.

[@siukong]

That's hilarious.

[@aswertyuiol]

that single fact basically sums up the whole problem with this film. fake progressiveness that still caters to unfair societal expectations

[@mariar.4893]

Becca Allen and yet for some reason she can’t shave her beard that she’s very insecure about

[@bewitchedbylena]

wack

[@spirithawk6580]

@@mariar.4893 she just magically forgets how to shave the moment she's done shaving her armpits and then remembers when it's time to again I guess

[@SpencerLee97]

I guess it wasn't the greatest show, man.

[@ashfayecosplays7845]

Love this. Thanks you.

[@zoe9799]

Did you get this from Evan Edinger?

[@salamalmahi541]

LOL

[@thomasraines1396]

Well played sir or ma’am, well played.

[@rackthejipper8257]

booooooooooooo

[@Tb40556]

You know a movie is weird when its romantic duet is just a woman trying to explain racism to her boyfriend.

[@milkymoonbeam]

and then the message is that he was right all along and she was just being silly

[@kaplingnag7267]

lmao which song was that?

[@milkymoonbeam]

@@kaplingnag7267 rewrite the stars

[@kaplingnag7267]

@@milkymoonbeam oH- damn i never caught on to that when i was listening to that song. If you dont mind, which parts of the song was trying to explain racism because i didnt notice

[@leorichardson5945]

​@kaplingnag7267 In general the whole song is about how they want to be together but can't due to circumstances beyond their control. Hence why "if they could rewrite the stars" i.e. change the pre-established order of the world. They could be together, but this is an impossible task. Zendayas verse starting with "You think it's easy" primarily focuses on her trying to explain to Zac Efrons character that even though they love each other, interracial relationships are illegal and punished socially. And how he'll leave her when he sees how hard it will be. It's "explaining racism" in the sense that it's explaining what facing racism will be like to an incredibly privileged man who genuinely doesn't seem to understand what's at stake in their relationship. Although it's worth noting that that's only what the song is about in the context of the musical, the lyrics are vague enough to be about any "forbidden love" type thing.

[@unvergebeneid]

"He's not even interesting enough to cheat on his wife, just slimey enough to think about it" is such a great line 😄

[@alice88wa]

I've adapted this line with good success a variety of times.

[@triedandtooth]

22:14

[@Zinron]

“He’s not interesting enough to actually cheat on his wife. He’s just slimy enough to think about it.”

[@greywolf7577]

There are plenty of movies with a married woman who has another man interested in her. It is treated as scandalous but also sexy and romantic. I think the P. T. Barnum character is getting a lot more negative responses to his actions than he would have gotten had the genders been reversed.

[@Zinron]

Greywolf757 Can you name one movie that’s like that that’s not made by a man? It’s the men who find it sexy, not women.

[@greywolf7577]

@@Zinron Given the low number of women directors, I don't think that would be a fair survey. Plus, it is about how the audience responds to it, not necessarily what the director intends. Even if you just look at movies by male directors, audiences seem to be more forgiving of female characters than cheat than male characters who cheat.

[@Zinron]

Greywolf757 Okay, sure. Name some movies.

[@greywolf7577]

@@Zinron The first movie that comes to mind is Oz the Great and Powerful. At the beginning, the main character is flirting with the wife of the circus strong man. The circus strong man decides to attack the main character rather than criticize his wife for flirting with other men. The scene doesn't put any negative attention on the wife for what she did, instead just focusing on the conflict between the main character and the circus strong man.

[@lizabethhampton4537]

"What are you afraid of?" said the white guy in 1880

[@youtubecensors5419]

After one million of them died in a war...

[@Alucard-A-La-Carte]

And NO ONE ELSE.

[@gonosol]

@@youtubecensors5419 What a relevant and insightful comment

[@moona3206]

@@youtubecensors5419 So ? He is rich and still doesn't risk his life by just existing like you know... the black girl

[@bigbawlzlebowski8886]

@@youtubecensors5419 a war started to keep people like her down...

[@Boon_TV]

"there is an elephant in the room... it's CGI, it looks horrible" I cant stop laughing

[@lazyrat6687]

the CGI does not look bad at all?...

[@Boon_TV]

@@lazyrat6687 okay?

[@lazyrat6687]

@@Boon_TV "okay?" 🤓

[@creeperhunterD]

@@lazyrat6687 "'okay?' 🤓" 🤓

[@m.i7211]

@Lazy Rat I’m not a very attentive viewer so I the cgi didn’t bother me either. I didn’t even notice it was cgi lol. The joke is still funny even though

[@camdotcoms]

i think the reason they had the whole jenny lind plot in there is so they could still have a "barnum's reputation is ruined" moment without addressing any of the ACTUAL reputation-ruining terrible things he did

[@stellabelikiewicz1523]

And nobody in the writers room at that point was like, “Wait, if this is where we’re at, why don’t we tell a story about… literally any other less shitty human being where we don’t have to come up with a fake scandal that throws shade on a real lady in order to create artificial drama while ignoring all the REAL TERRIBLE THINGS that our protagonist did in his lifetime?”

[@biggestastiest]

writer 1: oh... oh shit head writer: what writer 1: dude i don't think we should be doing a movie on this guy, look at the wikipedia page on him head writer: head writer: fuck it, we're just gonna do a full character makeover

[@user-rm1jp6hf5h]

It's kind of funny, too, that I'm pretty sure the cliche "angry mob" of the movie is just a bunch of bigoted, stuffy peasants who don't like the freaks in the freakshow, because they're racist or something (????) instead of having the mob be more, y'know, justifyingly angry.

[@Skank_and_Gutterboy]

Yes, and to keep the movie under 2 hours. You could easily make a 10-hour miniseries on this guy and his asshattery.

[@guldmattbb473]

I commented it myself earlier, but even the actual reason Jenny Lind left Barnum in real life would have fit better with the narrative of Greatest Showman. The entire point of Barnum’s character flaw in the movie is that he’s too focused on appealing to high society. So having Lind leave him because she starts to feel like he commercializes her act and cares about profits over the actual art would serve as a wake up call for him that he lost sight of why he started pursuing showmanship in the first place. But nope, character assassination of a real person who 100% did not deserve it is a much better way to do that, I guess.

[@ellaboehme6748]

"There is an elephant in the room. It's CGI and it looks horrible."

[@Ana-fn2zg]

Can you just ignore that and watch the Amazing movie?

[@kiwiangeldust6912]

Ana Tingue No cuz this movie is horrifying 😂

[@Begeru]

It would have been better if they used real elephants right?

[@FionaOfMountLawley]

Al least the CGI elephant wasn't tied to a section of railroad track and electrocuted to prove that alternating current was more dangerous than direct current (as a result of a commercial agreement between Barnum and Thomas Edison, who was trying to convince New York City to use his patent rather than Telsa's, with the results that a perfectly good elephant died and the Yonkers power station, which continued to supply power for the city until the 1950's was built).

[@niamhodonnell6548]

1:46 ..........

[@AC-th4ci]

I feel like this musical was trying to ride off of Hamilton, so they just spun a wheel full of famous dead guys and landed on PT Barnum

[@yeethittter1285]

But then it was too scared to go into the musical deep end so stayed safe and made every song stand alone from the actual story

[@GoldPlatedKikimora]

@@yeethittter1285 I see fools consume false cheese

[@yeethittter1285]

@@GoldPlatedKikimora haha what

[@c3ru1ean41]

yeet hitter lmao this comment has :nervous laughter: energy

[@GoldPlatedKikimora]

@@yeethittter1285 In times we find the cheese was really butter

[@data_expunged97]

As a former choir kid, every time I hear “This is Me” I get war flashbacks. What did they put in that song to make every single choir director go absolutely fucking feral. Sometimes the same person made us perform it in more than one concert. I hate it with every fiber of my being

[@appalachiabrauchfrau]

sometimes I think there's a silent note in some songs that trip the sleeper cell switch in band directors and band front coaches. idk man.

[@belughlegosi]

SAME! Every pep rally, concert and probably graduation if we had it (2020 grads rip)

[@madie8769]

okay i know this comment is old as hell but i was ALSO in choir and we literally learned this song WITH choreography !! for what !! it was not show choir !!

[@DKdrop]

I think I’ll call that the Pasek/Paul effect: at least one of their songs per successful production will become absolutely irresistible for choir directors. This duo wrote for La La Land and Dear Evan Hansen as well, after all.

[@middlenerd178]

Yeah… I remember spending a solid hour in choir trying to correctly time the “wooaaaOOOooh” echos…

[@demilembias2527]

this is like the equivalent of if in 2047 they make a hyperpop musical where Onision is the hero

[@luiginastro8831]

Oh, God.

[@Lexivor]

Nobody will remember Onision in 2047 though.

[@christalcavanaugh]

Oh god why would you even say that???? 😨😓

[@robertcorbell1006]

They also double down on the hero thing by giving him what will someday be seen as ahead-of-the-time views by highlighting his intactivism and vegetarianism. Then again, this is just me assuming how people in the future think in terms of social politics.

[@samfann1768]

@@Lexivor also he may still be alive, considering that's only twenty six years from now

[@nataliaenriquez2467]

The thing that bothers me about “This is Me” is that the freaks sing it immediately after Barnum is actively embarrassed by their presence and they go to the circus....to perform the song.....and therefore make more money for the man they’re angrily singing about. What.

[@ajpat9620]

That's what everyone had said negatively of that song. It's just terrible.

[@lenastorm6280]

@@Legionofbees Same! O.o

[@Ana-pj1gf]

@@lenastorm6280 girl is not like they could afford trying to get another job

[@lenastorm6280]

@@Ana-pj1gf Well, in the movie Lettie Lutz (the bearded Lady) already had a job, before Barnum came along. She was working in the laundry, remember?

[@arcyarcanine]

Perhaps they knew he didn't mean it? Besides, he's the reason they found each other.

[@TheCollectorsSin]

I absolutely adore how this girl looks like the quietest, nicest librarian I've ever seen and then she starts describing stuff and it's straight up Savage. I want her to be my best friend

[@yaboi6360]

She looks exactly like my librarian at my school

[@DB.KOOPER]

I have no idea how I got recommended her channel but several of her videos have made me straight up cry laughing. She's hilariously adorable. I wish my niece, who could be her doppleganger, was this funny, it'd make family events much more enjoyable and I'd love to listen to her compile notes and describe the insanity and illogical nature of my family.

[@Wizardofgosz]

I only just discovered Jenny. She's brilliant.

[@Marqui91]

@@DB.KOOPER funnier than some comedians

[@suemccashland]

she do got that librarian style

[@cameronshinall160]

From what I read, Jenny Linn historically was the one that rejected Barnum. Like he apparently harassed her a lot and she kept saying no. So the movie is even farther pulled from the history.

[@skeletonbuyingpealts7134]

"She came onto me"

[@jeshala]

What bugs me is the character of his wife, who, as a child, had a brief expression of a plucky personality but then just got boiled down to 'wife'. Why is she supporting him this much?

[@gordonramsayslambsauce]

i mean even with her parents supporting her, it wasn't socially acceptable for a woman to leave her husband. if his fame continued, public shaming of his wife would most certainly occur and her family's reputation could take a hit

[@goosegas2087]

@@gordonramsayslambsauce I think what they're trying to say is that she doesn't have any other character than dream waifu.

[@ThePrincessCH]

Because the plot is more story driven than character driven. Barnum is the center of attention, while the others are just meant to advance the plot.

[@charisma1322]

her song is epic tho

[@bewitchedbylena]

“a mean spirited character assassination against a woman who died in 1887” im crying

[@Aces135]

lol

[@user-tx5vr2lu6e]

​@pastore perplexity it's funny to think that the writers would be mad at this person from 1887 who has had no impact on their life.. like, 'you did this for what?'

[@michaeldavis2001]

I suspect that Jenny Lind dying in 1887 is the only reason that the movie's makers didn't accuse her of being Jack the Ripper!

[@cam4636]

@@michaeldavis2001 That would give them credit for researching when Jack the Ripper was active, which is not a safe bet

[@combat_chameleon]

weird they decided to strip hugh's character of the problematics traits the real dude had and added a twist to the female character that was known to have been actually a good person, turning her into a "bitch" only to reinforce the dude's honest nature by making him reject her and therefore just reinforcing that she's just "a bitch" when she becomes spiteful and bitter and revengeful against him, the poor guy. weird choice of narrative indeed

[@sebastian_goat]

“gummy” and “rubbery” are not words I want to describe horses ever

[@grapheist612]

But what about Pokey?

[@amyd4227]

I wanted to make a gelatin joke but decided against it

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

What about bungee-gummy?

[@pantherette113]

My Little Pony slander

[@polarperson]

what about gluey? yeah, gluey sounds good

[@RockyGems]

My in-universe theory about the "Siamese Twins" is that just like how Barnum was doing stuff like making the tall man look even taller on stilts, he just hired two random Asian guys with similar haircuts and mustaches to stand close together at all times.

[@singingplanet]

That happened quite a lot.

[@maynot]

I hope all the asian men hired to stand by one another at all times at least became besties

[@imsotiredofthiscrap2341]

@@maynot probably did. if they're both desperate enough to accept a job where you just stand next to someone who looks moderately like you and get laughed at, they'll probably have a lot in common.

[@margaux6346]

Facebook moms be like:

[@Sam1D28]

@@imsotiredofthiscrap2341 why make me laugh like that 1.28 AM ????

[@chaosgremlin]

my dad describes the movie as "some music videos strung together by a crappy plot" and I totally agree

[@OwlBard]

omg yes exactly!

[@setlerking]

This movie is one of the most American things ever. It’s a movie that glorifies a man who might have loved circuses at one point but eventually was only in it for the money while making a villain out of the person known as a humble philanthropist.

[@bennyton2560]

well said , plus they really think being exploited by an able-bodied man is liberating?

[@Sakisasvictorianmask]

Plus, they managed to get the "diversity" card in by having Zendaya in there. While it's true that racism was a lot more rampant back then, having Zack Efrons parents being shocked at her appearance, when she was decked out like a princess, was completely unrealistic. The whole love story was sooo unnecessary.

[@Kaloapoele]

It’s misogyny porn. Glorifies cheating in a Claud Frolo slimes way. Her identity as a performer/sex object is totally fetishized. He doesn’t do anything. His wife tanks her life a bit for him and all the bad freak treatment too. It’s basically about celebrating male capitalist mediocrity

[@christalcavanaugh]

@@Sakisasvictorianmask also it seems unlikely that someone would be that light skinned biracial at the time. Her brother has much darker skin than she does in the film and it seems possible to me that people in the mid 1800s wouldn’t even recognize her as being black

[@cam4636]

@@christalcavanaugh That's, uh...no. Not sure how you're thinking skin color works, but she definitely could have her same skin color, and the laws in the US in the 1800s and well into the 1900s would've treated her as a Black woman with all the inequality that implies...unless you're saying someone would look at her and think "that right there is a white woman" in which case...I guess that depends on the person looking

[@GrimBrotherIV]

A person who does trapeze is a trapezoid

[@Witchy_Hoo]

GrimBrotherIV top 10 facts that school hides from you 0-0

[@Flowtail]

The best comment on this video

[@outbacksteakhouseofficial]

as a trapezoid myself I can confirm this is true

[@tynytian]

Trapezist

[@LoverOfManTits]

@@tynytian r/woooosh

[@abbywolffe4114]

Why did they think they could just... romanticize a really gross historical figure? Like sure Hamilton is like a funky rap version of rich white slave owning politicians, but like it's self-aware enough that you don't really root for him in Act 2. It's fully acknowledged that Hamilton cheated on his wife and kinda sucked as a person while still making him an interesting protagonist

[@nobodycares4321]

Because half the country loves and worships greed and evil

[@Aurelian369_]

I really wish the musical acknowledged Hamilton’s slave owning some more. I love the songs and the plot but the whole time I was just thinking “these people literally were slave owners”. Slightly unrelated rant but I’m sick of the “cultural relativity” argument. Of course it would be odd to characterize Hamilton as the spawn of satan due to the social norms of the 1800s, but you cannot deny that African Americans suffered under slavery and their struggle has went largely unacknowledged until recent decades. Exposing the negative aspects of the founding fathers helps us learn from the mistakes of our past and prevents us from blindly worshipping historical figures.

[@nobodycares4321]

@@Aurelian369_ Nah fuck that. It doesn't take thousands of years of social evolution to realize "derr slavery bad!" Fuck our ancestors, fuck the founding father, fuck Hamilton, fuck em all. Fuck cultural relativity. The culture nowadays is to kill anyone that isn't the same as you and that hasn't changed whatsoever. Humans didn't magically evolve empathy in 1865. That's dumb.

[@patrickholt8782]

Plus good ol’ Burr takes care of it.

[@SmileyxKyley]

@@Aurelian369_ Hamilton didn’t own slaves. He was a very vocal abolitionist. The main “good guy slave owner” in Hamilton is Washington, which they fully just gloss over every flaw that man had 😂

[@skylarjohnson7779]

"You didn't have a beard when you were a baby" she might have, we don't get enough of a backstory to say for certain. So I'm choosing to believe she was born with a full beard.

[@grylltheonion]

Maybe she didn't have a full beard, but she would probably been more hairy by default.

[@cam4636]

She was born a beard and grew the rest of her body gradually

[@delirium341]

according to the wiki, Annie Jones joined Barnum at the age of nine months, and "By the age of five, she had a mustache, sideburns, and beard"

[@nkbujvytcygvujno6006]

So either exaggeration, or that genetic thing I don’t remember the name of, where all the hair follicles on your body are the same kind as the ones on your head, and grow hair just as long and thick. But this movie wasn’t even historically accurate. And she could still cut them.

[@bogwife7942]

just tried to imagine what that must have felt like for her mother....1 million nopes. fuck that

[@runilareads15]

I always found it funny that Anne (Zendaya's character) wanted to not be see and kind of blend into the background so she wears a lime green dress to go to the theatre

[@daishoryujin95]

As if the GIANT PINK HAIR didn't do enough heavy lifting.

[@kieranhair7892]

Honestly, I thought Efron's parents hated her for that awful dress more than anything else. It's one of two things I kept expecting to come up in this video that never did.

[@greablood1072]

Girl has self-sabotage issues, don’t we all

[@georgie488]

@@daishoryujin95 Didnt she take it off before she went to the theatre?

[@esobelisk3110]

@@kieranhair7892 out of curiosity, what was the other thing?

[@kate_6436]

If they wanted to make a fun circus musical why didn’t they just make one about a fictional guy instead of a slaveowner so that I didn’t have to see people all over twitter saying things like “PT Barnum is a precious bean”

[@taliajung1553]

Wait. There were people on Twitter saying WHAT?!

[@tavadaardendrian319]

I think I just vomited a little. They said what now

[@cityfey]

@@tavadaardendrian319 i mean, thomas jefferson miku binder happened. are you REALLY surprised?

[@baguettegott3409]

@@cityfey I actually love Thomas Jefferson miku binder, because he seems to make everybody who sees him gauge their eyes out while I'm just... wholly unaffected by him. I mean, it's SO far removed from historical Jefferson (it doesn't even really have much to do with the musical version), that I just find it funny. I find people extrapolation in the other direction uncomfortable. You know, saying good things about historical figures like Barnum and Hamilton *because* of the musical. Applying their fictional traits to history. That I find gross. But in the opposite direction? Veering off into wild and nonsensical alternate universes? That's at worst a little cringey, and at best just hilarious.

[@greatestaxolotl4933]

@@baguettegott3409 honestly the reason i love thomas Jefferson miku binder is because the real thomas jefferson was a shitbag and i know its exactly what he would not have wanted(if he could ever understand the context).

[@alyzu4755]

I love Hugh Jackman, but I'm SO TIRED of leading men cast opposite women who are at least a decade younger.

[@stingerjohnny9951]

Just let an older actress have some work dammit, she’s an actress so she’ll still be hot as hell, I mean look at Michelle Pfiefer!

[@SuzER08]

This is why The Proposal is the greatest rom com of all time. Sandra bullock is 12 years older than Ryan Reynolds, it flips the script. And they're both hot.

[@sideways5153]

But Tom Cruise NEEDS a 20-something to costar in his movie or else he can’t get into character as a man that is definitely no older than 35

[@alyzu4755]

@@sideways5153 🤣

[@TitaniumShortcake]

May I recommend Shirley Valentine, if you haven't seen it? It's a very down to Earth story about an older woman who's unsatisfied with how her life is going. There's some romance there, but the main focus is on her learning to love life again.

[@marcsoren7]

As a circus artist, I just have to say that most of us acrobats are very sick of hearing the songs from this damn movie and/or performing at GS themed corporate events. If I hear Rewrite the Stars or Never Enough one more time, I will tear my ears off. The songs aren't even that good! I also looked at the clips from the movie and the circus is barely there and just not accurate to the time for the most part.

[@stellabelikiewicz1523]

Ugggh, that sounds as demoralizing as what it must be like for actual professional stage magicians to have to do tie ins with Now You See Me, a movie truly defined by the phrase “waste of potential”!

[@OwlBard]

I thought the music for Rewrite the Stars was nice ( the lyrics are, ugh, kinda weird in hindsight ), but Never Enough goes ' never never never enough never enough ' so many times, it's like they just gave up through half the song lol

[@dardend4155]

Jenny Lind, one of the most famous opera singers in history, singing a flat, pitchy pop song was the biggest slap in the face of this whole film.

[@csmith2005]

Thr way they characterized her is absolutely disgusting. Talented, charitable, by all accounts kind woman?? Nope, let's make her an absolute witch.

[@liquidKi]

@@csmith2005 Yeah the screenwriter really didn't seem to like her.

[@ellah6188]

Also if I remember correctly they keep talking about how she has this beautiful soprano voice, and then she sings and the song is very clearly not a soprano song? Which is fine ig except if she's going to sing a fairly low to mid range song maybe just call her an opera singer full stop? Don't go into specifics if they aren't true in your narrative?

[@dardend4155]

@@ellah6188 The range in THAT song is like mezzo soprano, but I guess they figured the general public is not well-versed enough in music to even bother to make that distinction.

[@razzle2429]

I agree! I was hoping she would belt out an amazing opera song to contrast her voice from the rest of the songs in the movie.

[@DoGlowy]

I like how the only 'freak' who was allowed to find love was the conventionally beautiful one (meanwhile Barnham is cheating on his life-long sweetheart for literally no reason). This movie really infuriated me.

[@pree76]

"Cheating for no reason" the real Barnum did that, but also when people get famous and get a giant ego it always happens. That's a pretty obvious thing...

[@AlexeBriand2002]

KevinJusticeWarrior the real Barnum actually never cheated on Charity with Jenny Lind

[@valentinac.6126]

He didn't cheat on her though!

[@paulcheng7112]

I would have watched the hell out of a movie where Zac Enron falls in love with the Bearded Lady.

[@dedf15]

wrong. the bearded lady and tom thumb both had fulfilled roles by the end of the movie. zendaya was very clearly NOT the only one who got what they wanted by the end credits.

[@Breakable_Pencil]

I’ve been giggling at “I came here to watch a guy hit a lion with a chair” for a solid two hours now

[@Moonstar79]

“‘This Is Me’ sounds like something P!NK would sing” *P!NK: releases a cover of A Million Dreams*

[@khills]

....I would buy it, not gonna lie. (This is Me, that is. I bought A Million Dreams when it came out. 😂)

[@OwlBard]

it's P!nk, therefore I will listen

[@jessicadelong1598]

To me it sounds more like a Demi song when she was a Disney star

[@ronan-outoftime]

and she said the greatest show sounded like a fall out boy knockoff, and then the panic at the disco cover happened

[@mnschoen]

Holy crap, the twist you came up with where Jenny Lind couldn't sing and the Bearded Lady came out to take her place would have been AMAZING.

[@casperwashere]

I wish that was what actually happened

[@ausername5410]

OH MY GOD!!

[@seanm9306]

Reminds me of when I was watching Batman v Superman and I thought they were gonna have Aquaman come out of the water and stab Doomsday with the Kryptonite spear.

[@tissuepaper9962]

They were clearly building up that twist and then just never delivered. It was very odd.

[@allurajane4979]

@@tissuepaper9962 fr i genuinely thought that's how it was going to go when i first watched it

[@yaelmorin9017]

when i need to stop missing my ex so bad i think about how much they liked this movie

[@vfxninja5503]

Ooof. Dodged a bullet.

[@keepinpemdazaliv]

This is me and my ex but with Sucker Punch.

[@mrs_mothra547]

Hehehe 😁

[@matildavanniekerk5694]

The only reason why I'm watching this video for the third time this year

[@vesperfromtheinternet5588]

wait same hang on

[@SuperNuclearUnicorn]

Does anyone else come back to this every 6 months or so just because they love Jenny's politely savage style of criticism? She doesn't upload enough dangit

[@andreanaranjo1655]

100% this my second time seeing this one haha

[@jasonmack2569]

First time for me on this one; but her video on the "Christmas Prince" is an all time fave. Must have watched four times now.

[@eos_aurora]

Me all the time

[@GippyHappy]

The funniest part about “The Other Side” being the only song that can’t be divorced from the context of the musical is that it’s the only song that got popular for internet artists to use to make AMVs with their OCs or characters from their favorite shows. The most in context song is the only one people will use completely out of context. To be fair, it’s also the least sanitized/boring song in the movie, so it makes sense.

[@thatonepossum5766]

It also just fits a lot of things really well. Any time you’ve got two characters on opposite sides, with one trying to convince the other to join them, the song can be used. And always way better and more interestingly than in the actual movie. At this point I’ll click on any animatic that uses that song, just because I’ve only ever seen amazing work done with it. (There’s a Rise of the TMNT one where the characters are parkouring on rooftops, and a Last Life (it’s a Minecraft series) one where one of the characters swings around on a ladder, and the artist did SUCH a good job, it looks amazing)

[@rosemary8136]

@@thatonepossum5766 There's an amazing BNHA animatic of "The Other Side" if you haven't seen it. Also, I checked out the Last Life ver. and it was so great!!

[@Randomositiess]

​@@thatonepossum5766 LAST LIFE ENJOYER I SEE !!!! (the animatics are amazing)

[@thegayghost872]

PT Barnum's actual first "freak" was an 80 year old black woman who he claimed was over 160 years old.

[@siukong]

To be fair, a really old person was much more of a rarity back then than it is today.

[@jeffjeffjeffjeffjeffjeffje7774]

She was a slave too

[@gracezb1]

siukong i don’t think he deserves the benefit of the doubt

[@Cloudminty]

And he PULLED ALL OF HER TEETH OUT to make her look older

[@anyareyes2663]

When she died he sold tickets to her public autopsy to prove himself wrong (that she *wasnt* actually sixty). He proved a theory that *he* started by monetizing the death of an old lady who he bought as a slave through a loophole.

[@sunnysside6709]

"edgy, knockoff fallout boy" The fact that P!ATD covered this song makes this statement 4x better

[@cityfey]

@Sabrina Owens he WHAT??!!

[@literally-no-one9587]

@@cityfey he said the first time he heard 'i write sins' on the radio he thought it was fall out boy before he realised it was him

[@DiamantisHell]

@@literally-no-one9587 that was hilarious

[@DussyBestroyer69]

Honestly PATD did the song better than the musical itself imo

[@micahwright5901]

And it was freaking terrible

[@carlieallred1428]

I actually liked The Greatest Showman, because I just told myself it's all fiction. But I totally had the same reaction to the collective characters of the "freaks." So their whole arc is learning to be brave and love themselves... yet almost none of them have names. They are known only by their "deformities" or defining physical characteristics. (Bearded lady. Tall guy. Albino.) Give them names, darn it! In the inevitable stage musical that's going to come out of this, give them names - fake or real, it's fine, just don't list "Fat Man" in the program.

[@archkull]

Can't really imagine the type of people that'd be in involved in making a movie based on Barnum that isn't about how terrible he was to have the perspective to even consider the idea to give character to the 'freaks' is a good choice.

[@JarethTheGoblinKingForever]

Then again, this is nothing new, so why pick at this one movie for it? Look at American Horror Story, a fairly recent show, which characterizes the "freaks" all as sexual deviants, criminals and losers who mope about much of the time. I've never seen any form of recent media about circus freakshows that isn't either horrendously offensive or just some kind of preachy SJW crap. The one exception is the movie Elephant Man, which came out over two decades ago and actually gave a genuine life story to Joseph Merrick, who'd been rescued from an abusive circus.

[@joeyrubles6926]

@@JarethTheGoblinKingForever Why should I be ambushed by shitty movies all the time? She is doing a service. I haven't seen AHS, for many of the same reasons.

[@JarethTheGoblinKingForever]

@@joeyrubles6926 I don't know. I just pirate everything I watch, so I'm not the right person to ask.

[@joeyrubles6926]

@@JarethTheGoblinKingForever It was rhetorical. I wasn't asking, and I don't need to waste 2 hours on a random movie because there are still hundreds of hours of Jordan Peterson lectures for me to keep up with.

[@thecaremel4821]

30:43 made me cackle, the idea that hugh jackman was so giddy about being in a musical that he couldn’t contain his expression is pure gold.

[@haylz-884]

Legit! There’s only one part of this review that I disagree with and it hinges on the fact that there’s no choreography that man isn’t up for, so any doubling was for the sake of time, not willingness. Everyone I know who has worked with Hugh is unanimous in their reports that he’s an absolute gem of a human being, and that bloke is up for anything. The circus chorus was criminally underused, the opera singer subplot was dull AF, and can we take a moment to appreciate the bartender in “other side”? Snazzy mustache and tack-sharp choreography *chef kiss*

[@khills]

@@haylz-884 Hugh also had several rounds of skin cancer removed during the filming of Greatest Showman, and that's probably the main reason for the doubling. It's not that he couldn't do it (he's demonstrated he can multiple times, live), it's that he wasn't supposed to sing or dance for a couple of weeks to give his stitches time to heal-and they basically had to keep him away from set, because once he was on set, he was, well, your typical enthusiastic Australian. (Let's just say Australian shepherds are very accurately named dogs.)

[@j.j.faltskog4288]

I watched the movie with a friend and thought it was boring then Lind appeared. As a Swede it was really offensive, this women was great in life and used to be on our money to see her as a this homewrecking villan was infuriating

[@SorowFame]

Reg Eric what does that mean?

[@Trickpants]

@Reg Eric That's a bullshit quote people like to throw around to absolve themselves (or in this case, others) of the crap they do. Offense is taken, offensive shit is made. Call people out on their shit and stop pretending to be Buddha with naive Facebook nirvana quotes.

[@NIHIL_EGO]

@@Trickpants I need to have this post framed on my wall.

[@croft4746]

So pretty much they made the real life bad guy, the hero, and the real life great person, a villain. Like WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO DO HERE

[@khatunamezvrishvili6211]

What did Reg eric say

[@NibNibNib]

No comment on the movie itself, but the fact that a black woman was used as a novelty in this movie is actually accurate to PT Barnum. He used many other races, both alive and taxidermied bodies in his shows. It was a weird thing for them to be accurate about.

[@seopark7467]

TAXIDERMIED BODIES???

[@marandaward1663]

Amy Park yeah he had a slave that he displayed as the “oldest living woman” I think and when she died (and also when her son died I believe but I could be wrong) he displayed their taxidermied bodies for money.

[@youtubecensors5419]

Shhhh... Don't tell anyone about the "Bodies" exhibits that draw thousands of people every year in cities all over the globe.

[@mmtruooao8377]

@@seopark7467 see the Ask A Mortician youtube series called Iconic Corpsed

[@soupalex]

@@youtubecensors5419 i'd lay odds that the people whose cadavers are exhibited in modern anatomical exhibits, consciously donated their bodies to science/the museums in question (though i'm happy to be corrected on this)… and were not _owned as property_ by a charlatan trying to make a quick buck _while they were still living_

[@AH-tu3km]

17:32 I cannot for the life of me remember who said this but it was a really great writer. He described the transition between dialog and music should be natural. When a character is so overwhelmed with emotion that words alone can't convey what theyre feeling the character starts to sing. And when music alone cant, they dance. It's difficult to explain, but this is why some musical interludes feel like we're pausing the movie to hear a cool song and others feel like a natural progression. It's one of those skills that's only noticed if it's not there.

[@rockifythis]

it was Howard Ashman! the guy behind the little mermaid and beauty and the beast!

[@emalaw1329]

@@rockifythis how was the exact quote? I remember Lin-Manuel Miranda quoting someone else in an interview and saying "You sing when you can no longer talk", but maybe that wasn't it

[@_Lynnteressant_]

@@emalaw1329 The Music KZbinr Sideways has a really nice video about this called Why the Music in the Live Action Disney Remakes is Worse than you Thought, in which a clip of Howard Ashman's saying the quote is played (also it is just a nice video, Sideways is in general a great KZbinr, a bit like Jenny but less ironic and from a music theory angle)

[@emalaw1329]

@@_Lynnteressant_ yeah, I've seen that video since I posted my comment because his Rise of Skywalker soundtrack analysis got me hooked to the channel. His essay on Cats (2019) is a masterpiece, I must have watched it 3 times.

[@_Lynnteressant_]

@@emalaw1329 Nice!! And yes, that one is amazing! Really like his Les Mis video too, crazy to learn how some productions have been done and what goes into getting quality audio/songs for a movie.

[@saucewizard69]

As a disabled performer I would like to personally burn every copy of this movie. It’s erasure of ableist exploitation and the fact that the ~freaks~ only find self-love through external validation and exploitation aren’t bad enough, it also just has to have the most obnoxious soundtrack that I’ve been forced to do curtain calls to. 💀

[@gammawolf3]

Lind trying to seduce Barnum was especially dumb because a big part of her tragic backstory was that her parents weren't married. You'd think that she'd be the first to hesitate to have an affair with a married man

[@williammcalpine2718]

I think she’s mad he put the house as collateral without telling her and went on a whole tour instead of being with home with his kids

[@croft4746]

So pretty much they made the real life bad guy, the hero, and the real life great person, a villain. Like WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO DO HERE

[@gabrielhassan544]

I thought you said batman, not Barnum lol

[@erraticonteuse]

The more I read the comments, the more I want a Jenny Lind movie.

[@StarryEyed0590]

@@erraticonteuse I recently learned that Hans Christian Anderson wanted to marry her and she turned him down

[@cassidyk1647]

"Because they're not allowed to speak, I forgot." I CACKLED

[@decasuffrage9021]

10:33

[@YOUTY209]

I misread this as "the greatest snowman" until 19 minutes into the video.

[@user-gj7lp5iz6k]

are you really that stupid

[@AlecDouglas]

"I didn't come here to watch an albino breakdance. I'm here to see a man hit a lion with a chair, okay?" is up there as far as Jenny Nicholson quotes go

[@minirth.maggie]

It literally took me 3 movie watches to confirm there were 2 albinos...

[@hirobeez]

This movie was a fanfiction made by PT Barnum apologists. It all makes sense. Better-than-real protagonist, evil seductress woman who have to be evil so she can leave without ruining protagonist manliness and hand-waived social issues to prove you are a token good guy. Seems legit Hollywood. Remember kids, it's alright to exploit if you put bread in their table!

[@crazyweirdgirl115]

sad but true

[@esobelisk3110]

@@baguettegott3409 what did they say?

[@ILikedGooglePlus]

"Exploitation is good so long as you give people bread and circuses." It was right there for you pal

[@cheeto.burrito]

Also remember the man has a manipulation tactic named after him. The "Barnum Effect" is defined as: ...a common psychological phenomenon whereby individuals give high accuracy ratings to descriptions of their personality that supposedly are tailored specifically to them, that are in fact vague and general enough to apply to a wide range of people.

[@rhodosu7937]

The irony

[@sticks4632]

Like most songs in the film

[@eyesofthecervino3366]

Is this that thing where a personality test says something like, "I like to be nice, but if someone picks on me too much -- oh, boy, I might get mad eventually!" and people read that and say, "It's like this test really understands me :') "?

[@AxolotlCult3144]

@@eyesofthecervino3366 I think so

[@saraluciaforerogarcia]

@@eyesofthecervino3366 it's basically what happens with the horoscope, but that too

[@cnstqnce2841]

Everytime someone mentions "this is me", I try to imagine the song in my head and I come up with Camp Rock's version.

[@cortneydryden960]

This missed opportunity of him saying “this is the greatest show” at his daughter’s recital 😭

[@linnofferlind-ljunggren5407]

"I didn't come here to watch a albino breakdance, I came here to watch a man hit a lion with a chair"😂

[@FionaOfMountLawley]

I looked up the use of slaves. This from Wikipedia :- P.T. Barnum began his career as a showman in 1835 (prior to this he had operated a general store in Danbury, Connecticut and had an illegal numbers operation, a lottery which was not allowed under Connecticut law). He purchased and exhibited a blind and almost completely paralyzed slave woman named Joice Heth, whom an acquaintance was trumpeting around Philadelphia as George Washington's former nurse and 161 years old. He moved to New York because private lotteries, the income on which he was then largely dependent, were not illegal there. Slavery was already outlawed in New York And (and had been since 1800, while Connecticut where he came from continued slavery under a Gradual Abolition Act until 1848. In Pennsylvania, where he had bought her, it continued until 1847. He exploited a legal loophole which allowed him to lease her for a year for $1,000, borrowing $500 to complete the sale. Heth died in February 1836, at no more than 80 years old. Barnum had worked her for 10 to 12 hours a day, and he hosted a live autopsy of her body in a New York saloon where spectators paid 50 cents to see the dead woman cut up, as he revealed that she was likely half her purported age.

[@404usernotfound_]

Yikes

[@firiel2366]

yIKES

[@teganlyons8169]

The wikipedia article left out one of the worst parts of that situation. Joice Heth liked to imbibe in a little alcohol, so Barnum got her drunk so all of her teeth could be extracted so she'd look even older.

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

FionaOfMountLawley What a hero. What a man to make an inspirational movie about. What a great man to be used as a symbol of acceptance and diversity.

[@alixj9883]

This made me physically ill. How disgusting.

[@wwjdpljj]

Omg the pop song for Jenny L. made me so sad that they didn’t take this opportunity to make a good modern opera piece.

[@heatgerm]

My highlights of this video: 1. The sentence "She angrily dances toward Zach Effron." 2. "Maybe it's not a character choice, it's just that Hugh Jackman really loves being in musicals and he can't help but smile" took a mildly annoying detail and made it adorable.

[@Wired4Life2]

Am I the only one who cheered when “Remember Me” from _Coco_ beat “This Is Me” for the Best Original Song Oscar?

[@Quackervoltz]

If I were there, I would be too

[@unaccompanied_minor2546]

Nice profile pic btw, BlueFox94

[@Wired4Life2]

@@unaccompanied_minor2546 Well, I try. ^_^

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

Aside from it being a better song generally, it's also an actual good example of a musical centrepiece that ties together the characters and narratives of a film in a way only musicals can do that justifies making a story a musical, as opposed to a glorified trailer for a film that plays inside the film itself.

[@Wired4Life2]

​@@UnreasonableOpinions Exactly. The fact that we get to experience multiple, story-shaping versions of the song alone puts "Remember Me" above "This Is Me". We hear the commercial sell-out version, snippets of talent show cover versions, its original version as a lullaby and farewell from father to daughter, and finally its redeemed version from great-grandson to great-grandmother.

[@njw387]

"a wicked seductress here to tempt hugh jackman away from his freaks and his family" me

[@jiminyjustin]

profile pic checks out Edit: as of writing this my comment no longer makes sense

[@mariar.4893]

nolie blue I finally have an answer for when people ask me what I want to be when I grow up

[@jessicaabbott610]

My new tinder bio

[@acd5677]

Thank you, mr. depressed fry cook

[@Quackervoltz]

I'm gonna clap his cheeks

[@little_flitter]

I have so much i can talk about with this movie , I'm disabled and been performing circus stuff since I was around 7ish ... now I'm a masters student focusing on disability and circus and hope to do a PhD in this area. One of the reasons the freak show itself was liberating for people that go through enfreakment is due to the nature of being free to be oneself. Whilst onstage you can be yourself freely and control the image put out, even if that image is laughed at. Another point is that within this space the 'freaks' find comfort in fitting out, together. Something that modern circus practices continue to do - provide a place for fitting in, for those who fit out. The tom thumb wedding was actually because Charles fell in love, they had children and lived happily together. There is evidence of barnum asking for permission to have the fairy wedding from Charles through letters. There are multiple historians that have multiple views on this derrived from the letters. Some say it was a terrible exploitation, others say it was a celebration- I say its somewhere in the middle. Done for good intentions of celebration and getting money, but is actually pretty exploitative. The freaks themselves where often treated pretty horrifically, hidden away, on streets , no family or friends and complelty ostracised by an ableist society. Barnum provided a home, food, companionship , a job, celebraty status (that people still hope for today and gain through some terrible means too , some viral sensations especially fit into this idea of stardom), as was said financial independence and an overall better quality of life. Its actually pretty widely accepted that alot of the atrocities that happened with barnum were due to the ableist structures that ostracised and oppressed so called freaks so much so that an exploitative relationship with some that provided such liberation was actually one of the best things that could've happened to some of them. Disabled people still are seen as lesser with things like the huronia institute lasting into the 2000's. This movie could and should have shown the darker spots of ableism and how the structures in place meant that the only value many marginalised 'freaks' can find in society and arguably within themselves is through their worth in money. If you can make money as a sideshow act then you finally have a place within society. Also as some fun notes , trapeze is actually fairly easy to learn on a garden swing , its not ideal or specially made but as a youngster especially it will make an extremely adaptable and tough performer. Whilst you really shouldn't learn aerial without an instructor , many people do and have. Im a self taught aerialist and performed a few times during my teens. Though since I been in uni and haven't been practicing im definitely outta shape but can still do a solid toe hock (hanging upside down from your feet). Some more fun facts - alot of the side show performers could breath fire, dance, sing, juggle , clown and often could do these better than the main acts. Circus itself is not ableist, it is the structures in place in society that cause it to be so - often leading circus to be a locus of oddballs which when you have an able bodied white straight man as the ring leader is just going to cause inherent problems. I really dislike how jenny lind got portrayed in vice versa to the 'freaks'. Hmm yeah I could definitely go on but this probably really long now ... but if anyone has questions or statements I'd love to talk , answer etc. I really love studying circus and disability so this is my thinggg

[@shreeyag.5411]

this is so interesting!! I was reading the rest of the comments and kept wondering where, in the back of my mind, i remember reading that those in the circus were given a home where no one else would take them. obviously I agree that barnum himself was quite exploitative, but what you said about the ablist structures themselves is something i hadn't considered before.

[@quietnerdything]

You should make a blog or a KZbin channel, I’d smash that like and subscribe button so hard.

[@scarvesbowtiessuspen]

commenting to follow

[@snakesonaframe2668]

I always had this attitude toward it. Yes, he made money from them, but if they weren’t in his show, they would have been on the streets having to do goodness knows what to survive. It’s awful that they weren’t accepted into society, but Barnum didn’t create that structure, he just took advantage of it. Which created a net positive for both himself and those he employed. Does that mean everything he did was ok or I think he’s an amazing person? No. But I really dislike when people try to reduce people from the past to only their negative traits and try to make them into a villain. These situations are a LOT more complex than that, and deserve to be discussed as such.

[@little_flitter]

Oh I've just check this comment section for the first time jn awhile.... I feel bad for not replying to everyone! If anyone wanted to discuss further I do a little little streaming, I have a link to a social on my profile etc.

[@oroontheheels]

I agree with everything BUT I think you missed out my favorite part: when protagonist ditches freaks for opera singer leaving them behind like trash he doesn’t want anyone, and freaks have this empowering song about how they matter, and right after that we see that circus continue to fail because apparently they are nothing without their able-bodied talented white boss. This was so ridiculous I wanted to leave cinema theatre 😂

[@LetTalesBeTold]

Was the circus failing, though? 🤔 I saw nothing in the film to imply that. They continued the show without Barnum, drawing in a full and mostly happy house (shown in the Tightrope montage), and the only downfall was in the crummy protestors getting “smart,” buying tickets so that they could heckle from inside, hence the fire. If anyone was failing, it was Barnum himself, because despite the success with Jenny, he was doing it on not even a shoestring budget, but overspending past his revenues. So while I understand why you might misread the quick montage moments in Tightrope as them “failing,” I don’t believe that’s accurate.

[@onionmctwist]

Is it a bad sign that Camp Rock's "this is me" is more memorable than the greatest showman's "this is me"?

[@flamefangstar]

I read this and instantly the song popped into my head You are. . . . So right

[@chaghetti]

Every time she said it I thought of the Camp Rock song.

[@TheEllie138]

Aw man, it's gonna be stuck in my head for days

[@iluvlittenanimations2.010]

I have never heard this song... gimme a link

[@iluvlittenanimations2.010]

And not the mute sword boi

[@GarmrKiDar]

So you're telling us that a movie that this could have provided representation and catharsis for people with physical disabilities through the allegory of the 'freaks', while also getting able-bodied people to empathize with their very real struggles of both physical and social nature; while instead the 'freaks' are denied the dignity of a character or an arc and are just pity puppets to make able-bodied people feel inspired and good about themselves, while reducing their struggles to a "you got to love yourself" message? ...I guess the movie does keep in line with the spirit of P.T. Barnum's freakshows.

[@consentclub8431]

underappreciated comment goddamn

[@cookiemocher388]

The last line was a bit far but you got the rest down

[@sakuranovaryan9261]

I'm sorry I never realized that as a teen. I thought this was inclusive cause they got to be part of something and got to have validation as people. But I did realize their only validation was to entertain people and not as individual human beings.

[@CoolStorytellersLounge]

❤

[@JumpdeArt]

Hah yeah great comment

[@mistertwister2000]

“This Is Me” is such a blatantly pandering song that it actually makes my soul shrivel up in my body, it could not be more obviously baiting basically every theatre or LGBT+ kid to use it as their personal anthem and that’s the only reason it exists.

[@CNWhatImSaiyan]

Fight Song on meth

[@elsalemony8445]

Man let me tell you, as someone who works in the circus industry, the songs in this movie are the same to us as say, all i want for xmas is you, is to retail workers. They're. EVERYWHERE.

[@ZGGuesswho]

lo siento

[@andrea6023]

I saw this film a month ago and I still cannot get over the fact that the bearded lady had perfectly shaved armpits.

[@lauralaura4362]

are you replying to your own comment 2 times?

[@garypierce7380]

That is crazy! You’d think she would have extremely hairy Sasquatch armpits!!!

[@clockwork468]

Andrea, You mean Lettie Lutz??? 😑

[@alkausurrahman6147]

The bearded lady (letty) had time to shave her armpits but not her beard

[@illogically]

Hahaha. I never thought of that.

[@rattyeely]

Can we just...stop making musicals about slaverowners?

[@gamzee3610]

I SPAT OUT MY TEA!

[@thepinkestpigglet7529]

The guy was actually an abolitionist and only ever owned one slave.

[@ukuviispert9599]

Can we just ... stop thinking a movie is about history when clearly it wasnt supposed to be historycal in the first place

[@mmanyhandss]

TFEXY PT Barnum was a real, historical person. Many of the mentioned characters were real, historical people. What’s your point?

[@ukuviispert9599]

@@mmanyhandss yeah, and the movie took the characters, but it still isnt supposed to be fully about them, its not supposed to be historically accurate, just because these characters really existed doesnt mean the movie that was INSPIRED by them instantly has to be historically accurate

[@Mandrake42]

For me the big problem was trying to make P T Barnum into something he wasn't. He was an exploitative "do anything for a buck" grifter who did NOT treat his performers well. It was all about getting customers in the door and bilking them of as much cash as possible in the process. To try and make him into this noble figure just rubs me the wrong way.

[@bleak6631]

There's no other KZbinr like Jenny lol she's so passionate yet reserved. She can call something hideous and stupid while sounding absolutely polite

[@debbiemcpherson2426]

The KZbinr Shaun has a similar calm passion to Jenny. If you're looking for recommendations.

[@TPNsBiggestFan]

@@debbiemcpherson2426this

[@AssassinKillua15]

They could've done the musical based on Barnum but have It actually be dark. There's enough happy go lucky musicals out there. This couldve been a really deep and dark musical. The slave he bought would have her own song about wanting her freedom away from the freak circus...Barnum could've had his own villain song. The cover art for the the movie poster could've had Barnum holding his hat up looking to the sky and in the background showing chaos with all of his abused circus freaks/animals. Kind of like showcasing the big show Barnum viewed it to be and how the audience viewed it to be but the secrets kept in the back. Idk why they didn't go that route if they were going to have Barnum be a major character.

[@cattledogandstaffy]

This is genius and I'm sad it doesn't exist

[@martifernandez8]

yes!! like Sweeney Todd but with the circus

[@sludgeparty]

the greatest showman but give it to terrance zdunich so we get a horror musical ala the devil's carnival or repo! the genetic opera 😳 just listen to some of american murder song's stuff, the vibes are There

[@greywolf7577]

B. T. Barnum in real life was very skilled at starting businesses. I don't think his story is dark, just not as dramatic as the movie portrays.

[@theblitz1070]

There's actually a musical about a freakshow where the owner is shown as an abusive monster and is focuses on the Freaks where they find their way through life and struggle, it's called Sideshow. (Yeah IK this comment is old but like I will promote Sideshow until the day I die.)

[@TCMusic-iv4nd]

It's a musical where the less you know about the real P.T. Barnum, the more likely that you will enjoy it. (Real-life Barnum was a manipulative, opportunistic con-man.)

[@klaudiawrocawska9903]

True. I watched it with no knowledge about him and loved the film. After informing myself afterwards about his life I rewatched certain scenes and didnt enjoy them.

[@AlexeBriand2002]

Thomas Cahyuti they kind of portray it in the movie but not as evil

[@supplyingtheswag2814]

Klaudia ._. Exactly, I watch it with my theatre friends and we loved it, but now knowing the reality of the story, I didn’t enjoy it.

[@andytrevino4077]

I didn't know that much about him, and the movie was still fucking annoying.

[@crowphia2562]

The first time I watched it I had no clue who PT Barnum was. I didn’t that it was great, but I enjoyed it. Since then I’ve learned more about him and I can’t watch the movie without hating the way he was portrayed.

[@alliewest3657]

I could have gotten onboard so fast with a PT Barnum antihero/villain vibe for a musical- if they gave the show some teeth and expressed through the plot 'yes, this is all pretty fucked up' with his look on life being mocking and viciously opportunistic. It could have been interesting.

[@stellabelikiewicz1523]

Imagine all those potential villain songs!

[@kamidarko]

I must say if you listen to a million dreams with the perspective of it being sung by a megalomaniac who is fine with crushing millions of people to get his way the song hits so much better. I honestly think it would make a grand villain song.

[@SomeBlokeOrWhatever]

Pick of nits: The drawing at the newspaper is period-accurate. In the 1800s, before Negative and Film Photography were the norm -- It was really hard to print up hundreds of thousands of copies of the same photograph. -- So instead they'd have an artist trace over the photo and make a Lithography master from that.

[@shay1330]

Hey this was cool info thanks for sharing

[@Crab_Shanty]

The art style itself was very inaccurate though. As an amateur artist, it's really not that hard to replicate 1850s styles.

[@daman7805]

I doubt they were doing that

[@E_FoxSnowspirit]

Cool! I never knew that...

[@stingerjohnny9951]

@@daman7805 You mean like historically or in the film?

[@omershaik6374]

Actually the bearded lady did have a beard when she was a baby, or at least a child. She was born an extremely hairy child and barnum effectively bought her and forbade her from shaving the beard. So there's your answer

[@greywolf7577]

Even if she didn't get the beard until she was a teenager, I'm sure there were some families that would still kick her out of the house or at the very least hide her from the world.

[@char1211]

Yeah the two bearded ladies I could find who have worked for Barnum are Josephine Clofullia and Annie Jones. They were both hairy at birth but Clofullia supposedly got a proper beard when she was eight while Jones had a mustache and sideburns at age five. Both are iconic ladies and here are their Wikipedia pages so you can read a bit more about them: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephine_Clofullia en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Jones_(bearded_woman)

[@cookiemocher388]

@@char1211 thank you

[@thatkidwiththehoodie]

“These songs sound like they were made to be played on the radio” and BOY WERE THEY EVER

[@penne_cillin]

I feel a sense of sick joy knowing that there are actual, genuine reasons to hate this movie lol when i was in school in 2017-18 it was the movie that all my teachers loved. They made us sing 100 dreams at our graduation ceremony (primary school thing) instead of the agreed 100 miles by the proclaimers. They thought they were being SO original then it was ound out that ALL the OTHER primary schools did 100 dreams too. This movie is also shit so i feel very much vindicated :) EDIT: i know its a million dreams but i don't care enough to change it

[@lorrainev4268]

LMAO

[@mackeighlynn-annstuart9355]

I legit couldn’t say anything bad abt this movie when i first came out bc ppl were so into it. I was so confused. It’s just another generic boring movie with bad music so you were not alone😭😭😭

[@leaf3765]

did we go to the same elementary school, bc the exact same thing happened at mine lol

[@FortuitousOwl]

I actually think AHS Freak Show is the superior version of this. Like the freak show owner is seen as a friend and caretaker of them but she is also exploitative and using them for money. It talks about the complex relationships the freaks have to their livelihood and their quest to want to be seen as human and normal.

[@sina3602]

Although I enjoyed watching the greatest showman a lot more than freakshow, I have to agree with you

[@FortuitousOwl]

Yeah, it’s a pretty niche kinda show for sure

[@FortuitousOwl]

Static Truths I liked Coven the best out of all the seasons

[@FortuitousOwl]

Static Truths I haven’t seen Apocalypse or Cult.

[@FortuitousOwl]

Waifu Laifu yeah, greatest showman just really really wants you to love PT Barnum, it gives the audience no choice and no ambiguity!

[@Cinemaniac96]

imagine getting cast to play a historical character and doing all the research about their life and then actually getting the script

[@hueghh3775]

i had to play This Is The Greatest Show for like 5 years while in middle-high school band it was agonizing i am beyond traumatized

[@snabulous]

glad i'm not the only one who was annoyed about the OPERA SINGER singing a pop song. i was so salty about it, and all my friends/family thought it was silly of me to criticize that lol

[@joshbryant4776]

I generally find this film kind of despicable trying to paint P. T. Barnum in a good light. A person who used cage and beat people with deformities for entertainment, owned slaves, killed 6 whales and abused animals. Considering the film is marketed towards children to me is just vile and irresponsible on 20th Century Foxs part.

[@mariar.4893]

Josh Bryant my little sister watched it because her friend loved it and I’m worried for the day when they learn what P. T. Barnum was really like and their childhoods crumble before their eyes

[@elliewilson3283]

Maria Rybakov if your worried about that I wouldn’t watch any Disney films or the majority of films/shows aimed at children. The majority of our childhood favourites are based on the Brother Grimms stories which did not happily ever after. The Lion King even shares similarities to Hamlet and Shrek was going to be much more gory before it was changed to make it suitable to children.

[@jacquelynmiller4714]

Ellie Wilson reimagining fictional stories is one thing, misrepresenting actual people is another.

[@ludicrus32]

PT Barnum did NOT own slaves. He was a northerner, so legally couldn’t, and he was a republican, and, when he entered politics, fought vigorously to pass the 13th amendment. You know, the amendment that ENDED slavery.

[@weiyin8046]

Ellie Wilson changing a fictional fairytale to ed happily ever after isn’t really comparable to sugarcoating this super terrible guy who actually existed. it’s kinda disrespectful to all those people who were wronged.

[@seani8698]

"Demi Lovato voice* THIS IS REAL THIS IS ME I'M EXACTLY WHO I'M SUPPOSED TO BE GONNA LET THE LIGHT SHINE ON ME

[@pineotree7009]

A better musical

[@kendallsilver2607]

NOW I FOUND WHO I AM, THERES NO WAY TO HOLD IT IN!!! NO MORE HIDING WHO I WANT TO BE.... ＴＨＩＳ ＩＳ ＭＥＥＥＥＥＥ

[@lovelyMissInna]

The only This Is Me that will ever matter and define a generation

[@micahellis5390]

I was about to fight someone cause I thought they were going to be the same song. 👌

[@sketchycat6223]

Camp Rock > Greatest Showman

[@TroySapienRobot]

I loved The Greatest Showman until I saw this review, then I realized I just loved the catchy songs.

[@robertjahn4190]

“This is like a song Pink would sing… about optimism after she had kids.” 🎯

[@woodfur00]

I was forced to sing This Is Me from this movie and do a theme analysis of Just Like Fire in high school and both of them stand out to me among the most annoying songs I've encountered outside of an Arby's.

[@ElenaGlitch]

I do circus performance, and I don’t like this movie. The story is poorly-done, the culture of both early and modern circus is misrepresented, and the bad bits of history are glossed over and given a Disney treatment. The first half of the movie is a long, uninteresting prologue. For a circus-themed movie, there’s almost no actual circus performance in it. Also the fact that I (and seemingly you too) can’t remember any character’s name other than Barnum’s is particularly representative of how bad the character development is for the “freaks,” and Barnum himself has the personality of a soggy, greying dishrag. Songs are cute, but they’re feel-good stuff, not particularly moving. The movie’s fun to watch if you don’t think about anything you’re watching at all.

[@bubblecat7827]

You literally don't learn the names of the freaks

[@rhiannonfisher2792]

I’m also a circus performer, and when this movie came out my entire troupe rented out a theater to watch it. I was like...this isn’t even really about a circus and most of the stuff was so inaccurate. During Rewrite the Stars, I thought Zendaya was doing a good job with the Lyra at first but then she and Zac started flying around in a way that was literally impossible without another person there to deal with the ropes. Plus when Zac freaking swan dived into Zendaya from the second floor I was like...no dude you would rip her arm out of her socket. The music is kinda bomb though. We actually work out to many of the songs in my Acro class lol.

[@Trickpants]

Can I ask if you know any good books about early and modern circus and their differences? I want to learn more about it, but a lot of internet sources are rather vague

[@callmeceleste7070]

That's when I like the movie, when I shut my brain off and act like these are all made up characters

[@nomukun1138]

@pastore perplexity I think if you consider this situation rationally you will understand that you are wrong. Do you just need a hug?

[@reecepierce9272]

this entire video is my EXACT opinion on this movie, it's only enjoyable for the spectacle and how excited my mom gets every time Hugh Jackman breathes

[@thevoid6990]

i agree with your mum, hugh jackman is the best. tho the poor guy deserved better, he probably only loves the whole thing cause he finally gets to sing. he's been touring since the movie came out and seems happy enough

[@joe6185]

Ngl this movie made me have a crush on hugh jackman

[@hoodedman6579]

Does everyone's mom love this movie? My mom loves it too.

[@RetroIsaac]

I just wanted to see Wolverine sing with Troy Bolton.

[@CaladonianQueen]

There was a play at the Edinburgh festival in 2011 called 'futureproof'. It was written by a lady called Lynda Radley and it was about the trials and tribulations of a troupe of sideshow performers at the turn of the century. While I was watching this film I just kept thinking about how I'd rather see a musical version of that.

[@Flowtail]

It’s funny how The Other Side is popular enough that people use it for animatics in different fandoms, yet it’s the most specific one

[@coal1818]

Oddly, the most specific songs usually end up the ones with the most interpretations

[@kendrajade6688]

Well it's the only good song in the movie

[@Bluey306]

@@coal1818 good point! i wonder if it's because the specificity of it allows the listener to tap into some really concrete feelings and images - and so people go absolutely buck-wild with the interpretations. whereas with a different song, a powerful song, sure, but one that's less specific...well, some people will still have their interpretations, but perhaps the images that come to them is less immediate, less solid. people will vibe to the less specific songs just as much as the specific ones, of course, but that's just vibes. it's a bit like poetry - how some of the most iconic, historic, long-lasting poems actually have a lot of imagery and description. it's all crafted very intentionally, and yes very specifically, but the nature of that craft is what gives the reader a _lot_ of information beyond just a vague relatable line (i'm looking at you rupi kaur). we're not inferring what the line is supposed to mean, we're actually being told in a very subliminal way, which is what makes those poems (and songs) so viscerally remembered and - in this case - so fun to interpret into our own images and experiences and, heck, animatics. people say "tell don't show", but ironically the craft and technique writers/etc employ to create these kinds of specific songs does a lot of "telling" without one ever realizing they're being told that information. it turns the abstract feeling into concrete thoughts and images, and the reader/listener/etc knows exactly where they're going with the poem/song/etc.

[@yeethittter1285]

@@coal1818 More specific songs make for more interesting interpretations because there's more to work with, unlike something broad and vague like 1,000,000 dreams

[@entrancedsnow7076]

It’s the most specific, but it’s still incredibly vague. There’s no names, and the only reference to what they’re actually talking about is a line about picking up peanut shells. Out of context it makes a good “villain convincing good character to switch sides” song

[@sectionalceiling8518]

"SPRING-TIIIIIME FOR BAR-NUMMMMM AND SLAVERYYYYY!"

[@nxgan1088]

*doo doo doo doo*

[@hunterb7561]

“WINNNNTTEEEERRR FOR SWEDEN ANNNNDDDD LIIIIIIINNNNDDDD”

[@Misora7303]

my brain atomathiclly started singing

[@IfIHadMyTimeAgain]

Now that's the only in-poor-taste musical for me!

[@spookysewerat]

YES 👏👏👏

[@joemency2242]

to be honest, I thought this movie was about a random fictitious man and a random fictitious circus

[@khills]

I just rewatched it recently - I am weak - and I remember thinking that it seemed like they went out of their way to avoid saying his name whenever possible. So I think at some point they got the idea that it might not go over as well as they'd hoped, and did their best to downplay the connection. (That said, the story is told so out of time to the actual PT Barnum's history it could have easily been a fictitious person and show and I don't think anyone would have noticed or cared that it wasn't "based on real life.")

[@AntheanCeilliers]

"Those horses are into that goth song!" The joy in your voice. The disappointment to come.

[@berkleypearl2363]

I recently saw a documentary about Jumbo the elephant, who was owned by Barnum for a while, and it just made me hate this movie even more because he was responsible for the death of this one of a kind, beautiful, African elephant

[@cottage-core_]

To be fair jumbo did get hit by a train, but I imagine that's because Barnum out him there in the first place. The story of Jumbo is my favorite thing about PT Barnum and Tufts University

[@cottage-core_]

Also what was the documentary called?! I wanna see it!!!

[@lanietalk]

@@cottage-core_ I was not prepared for the elephant to die by being hit by a TRAIN!

[@rubymvos105]

Not really related to the review, but a big reason I never really liked "this is me" as a gay person was that everyone kept trying to tell me it was an anti-homophobia song??? All my fake-progressive kinda-friends would go up to me and tell me how it was their favourite song, or that their dance group did a routine to it. Like what am I supposed to say to that lol, okay I guess?

[@tungsten_talons]

Cue the straight friends doing the 'wink wink, nudge nudge' at you when This Is Me comes on.

[@phousefilms]

"A lot of my friends are Zendaya's." They clearly wanted a handshake and a pat on the back from you because you're a minority(as in, someone who gives the okay for all aspects of something tied to a piece of media and the decider of all things that have to do with whatever it is, as that is what they feel is the ONLY part of your personality, lol(POC, gay, trans, etc;)

[@slithra227]

I always like the song not as a part of the movie or as a gay ballad (straight people shouldn't be credited with writing those lmao) but because it felt really good for Kesha specifically because of what she was going through when this movie was made. I've never even watched the movie jfbsjsbs

[@rubymvos105]

@@slithra227 good point I actually never thought of it like that

[@cerealissoup5820]

@@phousefilms I don't think Zendaya is like that, as far as I know she doesn't use the fact that she is black or a women to victimize herself.

[@hannahbellegamble2972]

15:32 To expand on that point, during the mid 1800s (which is *presumably* when this movie is set), photography wasn’t at the point where you could just snap a picture like that. The exposure time was at least 15-30 seconds long, and the subject had to sit completely still or else the photo would be blurry. So either that was one LONG kiss or the resulting photo ended up just a blurry blob.

[@CHRB-nn6qp]

"Immediately your 'he's going to cheat on his wife' alarms are going off". Fucking brilliant 😂

[@skyeoak3]

Yeah, the moment Jenny Lynn was introduced I was like, "oh god, this innocent woman is going to be the stereotypical foxy villain, isn't she?" And then when she did my level of annoyance with this movie went from very done with this movie to incredibly done with everything. The end.

[@greywolf7577]

Why did you assume that she had to be an innocent woman? I'm betting that if a male character seemed good at first, but then turned out to have a bad side, you probably wouldn't have a problem with that. Why be so much more insulted with how the Jenny Lynn character was represented?

[@skyeoak3]

Greywolf757 😅 I wrote this comment over a year ago... I think it’s just the fact that it plays into a stereotype. Rest assured that I see the the “Secret hidden Nazis! Oh no!” plot twist as supremely uncreative. If you want a good deconstruction of both these tropes, I’d highly recommend the book version of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.

[@thanatoast]

@@greywolf7577 Because the real Jenny Lynn was loved because she was a philanthropist and making her that would be shitting on her legacy, while simultaneously romanticising known slaveowner and con man P. T. Barnum

[@lucasbooth3614]

@@greywolf7577 you really commented a whole bunch of "hot takes" in this videos comment section. I wonder if you were trying to start conversations... Or just mass trolling. They seem to be very unpopular takes with jenny's audience... Hmmmm

[@danielshore1457]

@@greywolf7577 I've got a feeling it's nothing about the actual movie character archetype I think it's the fact they made it about a real person and just like just made a bunch of stuff up about her

[@Flowtail]

Jenny: “...and I have made...” Me: **leans forward** Jenny: “...a numbered list!” *YESSSS*

[@ArabellaTurner]

The really funny thing about the songs in this movie is that the only two I ever stumble across now are Rewrite the Stars (which I hear on the radio) and The Other Side (which people love using as an animatic). The one song that actually was plot relevant is the only one I’ve ever seen applied to other things. It’s also the only one I sometimes actively seek out to listen to. It’s almost like the one properly musical song is what people who like musicals actually enjoy. Who would have ever thought that?