i’m not like other teachers… i love you?

[@carolcorreia1245]

i think the ONLY time that i like a student-teacher relationship being portrayed was in kimi ni todoke. bc one of side characters has feelings for the teacher and confess but NOTHING happens between the two. the teacher really says NO, - and treat her as an adolescent!

[@PichuElric]

That's how you know it's a healthy manga

[@PichuElric]

Also in my little monster!

[@lumityviktuuristanartist4100]

@@PichuElric also saiki k , it's a comedy serie btw , anyway, the teacher was kinda strict and some male students pranked him by a love letter from a "girl" saiki our main protagonist, has powers so he changed into "the girl" to see how the teacher will react, and the teacher was reasonable he said " I'm sorry but you're a student and I'm a teacher and I can never see you this way , you are like one of my children" and went off , the anime was actually making fun of questionable/stupid tropes in anime but stayed reasonable, I stan 😩💅

[@marumyauss]

Also Ao haru ride! Even thogh there's a moment where it seems like the teacher develops feeling for the student (which s kinda yucky tbh), when he notices them he imidiately cut ties with her and rejects her. And later she ends up dating someone her own age.

[@idktbh.2421]

I LOVEEE Kimi ni todoke

[@glitchmon97]

i love both fruits basket and cardcaptors but boy oh boy the student teacher relationships make me so uncomfortable... like i'm 25 and the idea of a 22 year old liking a 14 year old is beyond disgusting...

[@RaisonLychi]

Wasn't the card captor one an adult and an elementary schooler? The one highlight of the first dub was that they entirely got rid of that gross dynamic and instead made the girl afraid of teachers creepiness

[@insertusernamehere3173]

Literally! I'm a teen, and it scared me so much it's so creepy.

[@PichuElric]

@@RaisonLychi Ayo no XD Sakura's parents were the only ones with a teacher-student relationship, and the mom was in high school (still gross but Elementary School is straight up lifetime jail). All the other pedophilic relationships don't come to fruition and are recognised as Bad, and the Elementary student and teacher you're talking about is an adult magician who took a child form to keep watch over Sakura's magic powers

[@kaly5678]

@@PichuElric Rika and Terada-sensei literally get engaged. Rika's a child, and Terada-sensei is a grown ass man. Gross.

[@PichuElric]

@@kaly5678 Oh yeah forgot about that 😭 You right, no 90s shojo is safe

[@theagingmillennialvarietyh7751]

As a former high school teacher, the thought of being anything “more” than *just* friendly with one of my students still sends shudders of pure revulsion down my spine.

[@Saphius-]

Same here. I was a teacher assistant for like... 1 year and a half when I was 19-20. The students were about 17-18. The very thought of dating them/having any sexual thing going on with any of them disgusts me. And in terms of age we were actually closer than most depictions of a student/teacher relationship.

[@LaNoir.]

@@Saphius- That sounds pretentious to me. Position and personal preferences aside, I don't see how kids 1-2 years apart from you suddenly turn unattractive. There's barely any difference between 17, 18 and 19, people put too much weight onto numbers

[@Saphius-]

@@LaNoir. Because position. You're not here for that, you're here to help them get their diploma, not fawn other them. Heck, whether you personally like them or not isn't even relevant to your job. Plus, Most of the time, they also think that you're way older (partly because in my country you're usually not co-teaching at that age yet). For example, they thought I was 25-27 when I was 19-20. And I don't particularly look old... Also, I don't mean that people of that age as a whole "turned inattractive". I meant that this particular group of student did. Because I do not have that kind of relationship with them. Also, there's often a huge difference in thinking between someone who is still in high school and someone who is college in my experience. Not that high school student are stupid, they're just less experienced with many things. Also, when you're young there is actually A LOT of difference between 17 and 19. I certainly was not the same person at those ages

[@cauzie8281]

When I was younger, I had no idea this was a thing. Now I’m in college almost graduated. While there are attractive teachers, i think there are a lot of mental gymnastics one has to go through for the high school teacher thing to fly. Even in college it still makes me tilt my head. It’s the dynamic. But that’s just me growing up from a kid to adult

[@skinscribe]

Fruits basket is the WORST offender of this! I remember watching the anime as a kid and I thought that kyoko was a college student… when the reboot dropped and I learned how old she was I lost my shit

[@RaisonLychi]

I was mostly creeped out by Akito and Shigure's nasty toxic relationship... I never finished the series because of it.

[@insertusernamehere3173]

I thought her dad was the same age as her mom until I watched the prelude. I hated it.

[@PichuElric]

@@RaisonLychi But it's fine because Shigure is soo hot and Akito herself is horrible so why not 🤢

[@Chaeley]

@@RaisonLychi - This is the one that made me drop out of Fruits Basket. I knew Shigure was manipulative from the start, but he was lovable enough that it was easy enough to overlook for a long time. His and Akito's toxicity completely ruined the manga for me to the point where I had to peace out.

[@hoshinakinda]

NO CARDCAPTOR IS THE GIRL IS 11 THE TEACHER IS 42 AND AGREES TO DATE

[@Fuyuunoko]

I still remember how extremly happy I was that the heroine in daytime shooting star ended up with her classmate Mamura instead of the teacher. Even though I was 15-16 at the time I read it, I still recognized how weird it was to see a teacher pining for his student, but many manga readers chose to ignore that because hey sensei was so good looking and cool! I also appreciated that Suzume's uncle didnt like the idea of sensei (who was his friend btw) liking his niece and told him upfront about it. Looking back at it now, I'm glad Suzume had a sensible adult in her life who realized how wrong the situation was.

[@jjba3571]

Me too metoo, that why i like that manga so much !!!!!!

[@cassy7580]

SAME. shishio was annoying af to me because he recognized what he was doing was wrong, decided to cut her off, and then when she was finally healing and moving on, he decides he doesn't care what's best for her and wants her back?? Mamura was honestly too good for Suzume but I'm glad she choose him in the end and it seems like they're super happy together in the time skip 😊 I think it was the first manga I've read where the second male lead gets the girl, it was so refreshing to see

[@katien3022]

Same! The teacher made me angry

[@spillinda]

I couldn't agree more!! I enjoyed that manga and I was so upset reading it because for awhile I thought she was going to end up with her teacher >.< I was so glad she ended up with Mamura, it was a lot healthier (and over all a good boy lol) and I'm glad as a 15-16 year old I was aware enough of the poor message it was sending if she ended up with her teacher.

[@sofr790]

Reminds me of the teacher in ao haru ride when he said something like "I'll take her from you" like bro stfu

[@fulltimecreep2001]

O.o me just realizing that when kyoko got disowned by her parents she literally had no place to go and was in severe need of therapy to deal with the trauma from her parents...she was in such a vulnerable state. It's one thing to get your student help because teachers are mandated reporters but..he went out and married a whole child.

[@_.-._.-Y0K0-._.-._]

One good depiction in a book I read was basically, the student had a crush on the teacher, the teacher reciprocrated, the student went "hold up that's not in the script" and BOLTED.

[@Boringsl0th-464]

Which book was it ?

[@_.-._.-Y0K0-._.-._]

@@Boringsl0th-464 Minha Vida Fora de Série by Paula Pimenta, if I remember correctly. Idk if there's a translation tho

[@TastyToez]

Wait wait did she like him or was it a trap???

[@_.-._.-Y0K0-._.-._]

@@TastyToez She liked him, in a teenage girl daydreaming about a celebrity crush sorta way: she never thought it would happen so it was safe to daydream about and giggle when he gave her attention. But then it got real and she didn't feel safe at all, so she got out of there

[@RowanElliss]

YES! This is one of those tropes in anime that is so unavoidable that we're just supposed to accept it? I feel similarly about inc*st in anime. It is EVERYWHERE and it feels bad every time.

[@averagesailor14]

Yes, thank you for bringing that up! One that really struck me as odd when I was younger were the twins from Ouran Host Club.

[@justanawkwardnerd]

@@averagesailor14 Yeah, the twins were weird as a twin. They did kinda point out that they were toxically codependent and I think it was implied that their parents fed into this, but it'd be nice if they got into how messed up it was more. At least part of their character development made you feel more confident that they'd be able to move past a lot of this in a healthy way.

[@averagesailor14]

@@justanawkwardnerd I definitely agree! It wasn't as bad as some of the other anime I watched growing up because of those points you brought up, the story and characters themselves made it feel like they could overcome it, plus they were self aware too.

[@nishpishwish]

Kaoru and Hikaru shaking rn

[@nishpishwish]

Also, the way how the club makes them act overly sexual towards one and other for their profit creeps me out. In all honestly, i dont think ive ever seen them as close as they are portrayed in the club, in fact it feels like they did a 180. The only thing thats the same is that they share a bed-

[@someone2447]

Pedophilia really killed my love for all things anime/manga related, there's was so much of it in almost every story I got into..

[@Hewasnumber1]

Japan moment

[@francisconavarrete3031]

Stop lying

[@pencil6965]

i cannot get into anime/manga because all i see is this crap. and now anyone who is obsessed w anime is just a huge red flag to me lol

[@LaNoir.]

why are you watching this channel then lmao

[@francisconavarrete3031]

@@LaNoir. because mf lying saying it's every where

[@cipherbunz2612]

"Anyway it's your fault for being born later than me" I had to take a second to even process what he just said because like,,, WHAT??????

[@missbeans]

I felt so bad for the poor VA who had to dub that line! What a mess!

[@cherryjohnson9230]

I feel like with Kyoko and Katsuya they could've expanded on the fact that Katsuya was a problem. They do tell us that he had a bad relationship with his father and the rest of his family and that tohru kinda hated him after he died because she saw the mother's mental breakdown. They could've explored how the age gap issue negatively effected those relationships as well. Similar to how the grandfather hated the father in Cardcaptor Sakura specifically because of that issue. They framed Katsuya as her savior when he was equally bad for her in the long run

[@cherryjohnson9230]

I also heard recently that the author tried to back track and say that none of the age gap relationships got sexual until the younger party was of age. It doesn't make it better imo because the relationship was still there. I don't have an official source for that statement, just info passed on to me

[@somdattanag9482]

Yes, I always thought the author could have easily portrayed the relationship as an abusive , predatory one, made Kyoko a survivor and portrayed Tohru's childhood with her dad as another abusive Fruit basket household. It would have totally made sense.

[@abandonrz]

​@somdattanag9482 you don't have to make them abusive to be a bad dad. Just a foucs on how weird the age gap is and how predatory he was is enough to say hey something is wrong and off. And it would fit better with the narrator of why Kyoko said because she felt it was love even though it was grooming.

[@DororoXPenana]

​@@cherryjohnson9230I hope they didn't actually say that cause lol how can one say that so casually and not cringe at the idea of "well they waited for them to be of age 🥺" like hello??? Just cause they are of age doesn’t make it any better. They are still a teenager developing. I'm just 💀💀💀

[@PocketLeaves]

I didn't realize how prevalent these predatory relationships were in media growing up. But YIKES. I'm glad to see discussion around this. This was a really well done video!!!

[@RaisonLychi]

You don't really focus on the ages when your younger... But when you look back on them as an adult. 🤮

[@SemekiIzuio]

Yup japanese media has ways been this f up, lets not forget the... affection for siblings... siblings love 🤮

[@PocketLeaves]

@@SemekiIzuio American media has this problem too. Disney had quite a few incest related bits in their shows when I was growing up as well.

[@SemekiIzuio]

@@PocketLeaves can you give any other example? I didnt grow with cable=Disney

[@Bettersucksaul]

@@PocketLeaves Tf? What shows?? This sounds made up

[@Oukow]

Ever since I became a teacher, this genre has become SO uncomfortable.

[@memegodilovememes]

I’m not a teacher but I feel you 😭✋

[@dani.5087]

The energy in the theater during the showing of Fruits Basket: Prelude that I went to was *wild*. The dead silence, the strained occasional laughter, the hushed whispers whenever things got weird. When we left the theater we overheard the people leaving behind us talking, and one of them said "and then the romantic music started and I was like 'stooop I'm gonna throw up in my mouth!'" I'm glad we were all on the same page about it lmao.

[@furlycee]

it never even hit me until now but as a pre-teen I was always confused why Tohru hated her father. The stated reason was that she felt like her mother's grief over losing Katsuya took her attention away from Tohru or something but I remember being like "that's it, that's the reason!?" But now I kind of wonder after seeing the creepy and predatory nature of it, and how Kyouko's mom's relationship with Katsuya essentially took her childhood and left her as a lonely single mother... it feels like Tohru's fundamental hatred of her father was something deeper and more intuitive. He encouraged Kyouko's education, but essentially left Kyouko in a situation that I'm not sure she even wanted for herself.

[@Amy3422]

This. She didn't want her mom to die. What Tohru sees as selfish is her instinctive reaction to seeing Kyoko in danger, and she was only in danger because Katsuya isolated her and cultivated her dependence.

[@Mercy.Beloved]

Talk about it. I absolutely HATE teacher and student relationships. They’re so predatory and it disgusts me. Looking back on when I was a kid reading this stuff, I shivered. I can’t believe this, it’s so disgusting.

[@dragoncat5767]

Atleast,if it's like the student is no more a student or a minor or something like that, it's not predatory Predatory specifically means when one is a minor or is trying or abuse or do something bad or manupulative

[@Mei.143]

I feel like in anime and manga characters between 13-29 look the same. These characters don't really age physically. And it's hard to tell how old they are. If we look at a real 13-17-year-old compared to an adult in real life it's much more shocking and you can clearly see the age gap making it hard to ignore it. It seems like in anime and manga due to their similar appearance people tend to choose to put it passed them or try to forget.

[@osmanthuswine190]

I remember being 10 and absolutely horrified that one of Sakura's friends was portrayed as being in love with her teachers 💀 It would've been cute if it was just a harmless crush then she directs her attention somewhere else later on, but no. 😅

[@Nanitamochi]

Now you’ll remember today’s date when I tell you sakura’s mom was 16 when she got married to sakura’s dad (who was 25 atm and a teacher) I’m sorry

[@Kirio_Dorito]

Cardcaptor Sakura also had incest in it. As far as I know, Sonomi (Tomoyo's mother) had a crush on Nadeshiko (Sakura's mother), and they are both cousins. Then, Sakura and Tomoyo are cousins too, and Tomoyo has a crush on Sakura. But you know what's even worse? Actually, Tomoyo's natural hair is straight, and Sonomi styles it in waves BECAUSE they remind her of Nadeshiko. Can I throw up?

[@elafila6883]

we had this teacher who was in his 30s, which is relatively young compared to our other teachers. he showed some favouritism for female students, like he would always greet his female students but we never saw him talk to male students outside the classroom. I was the best in his class so he would trust me with small tasks. This must have also been innocent but he would do this thing where he lean really close to tell me things to my ears which i felt was weird. anyways my friends and I nicknamed him Preda because he lowkey acted like a predator💀😂😂 we also had another teacher in his 20s who was rumoured to be dating one of the seniors, ew😭😭

[@vuhuongly3884]

Some predators and abusive people choose career which may help them interact with future vulnerable victims. Teacher is one of those :/ I think my ex friend is a predator. It's just so gross. However, they know how to conceal their intention and calculate their moves until the opportunities arise so it's hard to expose these predators.

[@hehe1928]

i’m 19 turning 20 in a couple of months i can never think of myself getting with a 14-15 year olds like that’s my siblings age and that disgusting like they are babies

[@idkidrc6541]

its true that a lot of kids growing up have crushes on their teachers, but that doesnt mean their fantasies should be indulged and portrayed in the way most student/teacher relationships are portrayed. especially when you consider the fact that adults create these series, they should know better than to glamorize such relationships to a young audience. some teens might know that relationships with their teachers are wrong, but as they keep consuming content that depicts that in a positive way, then its possible that they might get convinced that its fine and that then puts them in a very vulnerable position in which they can more easily get groomed and abused by a teacher or other adult in their life. i guess its different depending on who is the target audience (adults - fine ig, teens - not ok), but if the target audience is teens, then the author needs to be really careful in the way they portray things like this. i definitively agree that its important to look at media we enjoy with a critical eye as well, and not just surface level, we can like things while still acknowledging problematic aspects plz😭😭😭 anyway thanks for this video 👍

[@dragoncat5767]

I don't think it's particularly wrong if the student is not a student anymore Following your love or crush when you are an adult or not a techer is not bad or creepy. It may seem weird, but not illegal or creepy by laws

[@jojolyneee]

​@dragoncat5767 stop capping for this problematic bs it makes you look like a suspect

[@pyritetea3399]

In Card Captor, I really hated the fact that one of Sakura's classmates who was 12 at most seemed to had a relationship with their teacher. I didn't even know the thing with Touma, her brother (must have escaped that terrible part). Also in Fruit Basket, I though Kyoko was 17-18 when reading the manga?? I didn't realize she was this young! Thanks for the video, it's very interesting!

[@IchibanOjousama]

She was like 10

[@janinebelleestrada7096]

17 is waaaaayy too young

[@pianomai-m1d]

how did i not know about this

[@-Lotta-]

Omg so true, like when he said card captor I though of that episode with sakuras classmate. It was so uncomfortable

[@shireenrazak7160]

Even as a 12 year old I thought it was weird💀

[@moonlightpaw5868]

This has something to do with culture too especially Asian culture. Where I'm from 14 and 15 years old is the perfect time for girls to marry. My sister's first marriage was with a 22-year-old man and she was 13 at the time. Her second marriage was she was 15 and marry to 30 years old widow (My dead aunt who is my dad's youngest sister's husband) with 4 young kids. We sent her to his house to help take care of the kids because my aunt killed herself after finding out he cheat on her, but somehow my aunt's husband make my 15-year-old sister his new wife. My dad was mad and thinking about killing him but people stop him. Can you imagine a man who is the cause of your little sister's death is now getting on with your 15-year-old daughter? Disgusting! People around them think what he did was normal. If you are 25 and not married by then you are considered a leftover. Now even men the same age as me (26), I feel like I am too old for them. And the only men I can date now are 35 and above.

[@jayneb6053]

The audacity to consider women leftover when your population is declining is baffling to me I think karma is coming around. live your life sis go where you're appreciated.

[@atropabelladonna3120]

@@jayneb6053 just my guess here but I don't think OP is from an asian country with a declining birth rate like japan, usually when girls marry that young they have more than 2/3 kids each and the population is booming. Statistics are clear on that, the more women are allowed to marry later, to persue higher education (university) and careers, the less likely it is they are going to have many kids. Bangladesh is like that for example. Only the richest class can send off their daughters abroad to study and they marry later. The poorer marry them off before the age of 18, usually they have four kids or more. Sadly Japan, being an asian country, kept the mindset that women have to marry young, have many kids and be perfect housewives (otherwise by 27 you are a leftover) while simultaneously having an economy/society that allows and even "obligates" women (and men) to excel at school, pursue university, careers and work till death (sometimes literally). Well can't have it both ways.

[@jayneb6053]

@@atropabelladonna3120 Oh i see. I was in that case talking about eastern Asia as the "leftover" term is something that I heard thrown around more in eastern countries and also the video. none the less it is still a disgusting attitude that surely will not lead to a good outcome and they will only have themselves to blame. Women should not have to accept being treated this way and made to feel this way.

[@pipitayun.r2763]

as a fellow Asian, I can understand your pain. I accidentally told my mom that I'm not sure about getting married and would probably do it (if I finally find the right person, also I'd like to be a rich independent woman hehe yknow what im sayin) at my thirties and she scolded me for it, saying that getting married at your 30's is waayyyyyy too old, I legit cried internally because there's no way I'm gonna bawl my eyes out in front of her

[@moonlightpaw5868]

@@jayneb6053 Thanks😘😘❤️

[@VoMFilms]

As someone who was groomed at 15, I can tell you that your absolutely right. I remember being in a hormonal haze from 12-16 and my self confidence was in the gutter. The attention I got from this 32 yo guy gave me a huge confidence boost. At first I thought I was cool, and then the gravity of the situation id gotten myself into started to set in. I dont remember what media I was watching at the time, but anime was there. I know if I'd watched any of this it wouldn't of helped my case at all.

[@TheTomboy222]

i agree that kiyoko and katsuyas relationship is way too romanticized in the series itself, but the unhealthy dynamic of their relationship overall makes a lot of sense in the context of the series as a whole. kiyokos absolute dependence on katsuya is the reason she fully lost herself when he died and is the reason she almost abandoned tohru, which is the root of tohrus trauma. its not handled the best but analyzing it critically makes it not feel as icky ykno

[@myiachanmagicalgirl]

Ironically, one of my favorite "older people handling a young persons affections" came from how the Cardcaptor Sakura manga handled Sakura's crush on Yukito. The adultish person calmly explained to the child that she was just having daddy issues and that she would experience real love one day, but not with him.

[@tomatosoup1304]

They're so disgusting and played off for romance, not even highlighting the issues just accepting it. Anyways stan Saiki K and Kimi Ni Todoke for having responsible adults tell their students that the relationship is wrong and nipping it in the bud.

[@anavictoriana_]

I hate that this trope is so common. I was watching Sweetness and lightning and thought it was going to be like a found family trope, or something like that and was enjoying it a lot -cause I love cooking related manga-, but I was just being naive 😭 By chapter 6 -I think- I was still in denial and just disappointed… specially because in this series the teacher already has a child who could easily be the student’s younger sister 💀

[@RaisonLychi]

What? The nice dad goes for the cooking teachers daughter????

[@64tzu]

THE DAD HAVE A S/T RELATIONSHIP WITY THE MAIN STUDENT ???? NOOO

[@s2sHoXXs2]

I knew i dropped that shid for a reason. i was getting those vibes (and ill be honest, it was boring to me)

[@updog9567]

BRUH?! I THOUGHT THEYD END UP HAVING A FATHER/DAUGHTER RELATIONSHIP 💀💀 I hate Japan

[@marthsimp12]

when i brought up how these relationships disgusted me in the shoujo subreddit, a shit load of users on there got mad and shat on me for saying how disgusting it was lol ffs.

[@turtlie7309]

Im not sure if it was your post or someone else but I was on r/shoujo and saw similar people whining…like, the fact that people get so defensive about this baffles me! They always say “Let people enjoy things!!! :(” yeah, sure, but don’t get mad when someone is understandably grossed out by the stuff you enjoy-

[@mice4486]

@turtlie7309 not a big fan of that trope, but ignore that manga in general :) people are easily defensive about things, which is sometimes understandable. You're not at fault, I think they're just rude towards you, but sometimes on the internet fandoms/forums can be toxic if you disapprove of "___" etc. I have intrusive thoughts, I'm a bad person for thinking about certain things. Therefore, I find comments on the internet that state I should be arrested or decapitated for my intrusive thoughts (I deserve something worse than getting a jail sentence, since people tend to say that I need to kms or just get a heavy punishment since they don't separate me/others from the actual perpetuators even when I'm trying to change), As a result of this, I experience isolation and separation from society because they think that if we had certain thoughts, we would automatically act on them and commit crimes whenever we have those thoughts. Others might have similar reasons, but for me, it feeds into my insecurities, so I ignore them. You shouldn't get frustrated on the internet because there are so many people who have different opinions, thoughts, ideas, etc, so some end up getting mad at you, and it's their fault. I think the best thing you can do is leave your comment and ignore people who disagree with it or are hostile towards you. As this ends up leading into an argument where no agreement is reached, since they'll keep bringing up the fact that it's fiction, I suggest you ignore the comic you're reading, don't comment in general, and carry on with your life. People are capable of distinguishing between reality and fiction, so don't worry that they're being influenced by such gross themes. It's just entertainment, most people there you're interacting with are minors, so they don't tend to really grasp the concept or clearly understand that what's going on in the manga/comic is illegal, (they might do, but they know it's fiction, so no hard feelings should be involved). Pedophilia is something that should be taken seriously and the predator should get therapy before this illegal/concerning relation stems.

[@mice4486]

Just ignore the hateful remarks that are directed at you and try not to get into a dispute because this is just a manga. Minors are often people you're mostly interacting with on manga sites etc, I mean by 13-18, don't worry because they won't romanticise relationships like this in real life. I've seen a manga where the main characters have a really toxic relationship; although most people there are aware of what is happening, they still choose to read it because they may enjoy the storyline or the personalities of the characters, etc. Or they are curious about the outcome. They obviously condemn such unhealthy relationships in real life. Since it's another sort of grooming, none of these teacher-student relationships should be acceptable, yet in fiction, many readers don't seem to mind the age differences. I can understand if you have a completely different opinion than mine.

[@mice4486]

@@turtlie7309 I very much dislike the romanticisation of this trope etc, I agree with kittykat896 about how awful and digusting this is. Just ignore commenting down in manga sites etc or spread awareness in other ways rather then just going on a reddit forums, since people there are a little toxic. Being in my __, 14/15 and 17 year olds, look the same to an adult. Another thing, "age of consent" in law doesn't dictate whether or not a power dynamic relationship is present. What does, in regards to age, is whether or not ones neurobiological maturation has finished. At the age of 17 you have more in common mentally and physically with 14/15 year olds....not someone in their mid to late 20's. Mid to late 20's you are an adult, and your brain has physically fully matured. To then set your sights on someone 17 (even 18, although legal) is predatory. When I was in my mid and late 20s, those in their late teens, look much younger than those IN their late teens actually realize. And the reason why I stated its grooming material, is because age gap relations in Shoujo is marketed towards a demographic of 13-16 year old girls, and selling them the idea that what is actually predatory behavior from adult men, isn't predatory at all but is in fact, romantic. This is a lie directed specifically at the exact target demographic of victims of this predatory behavior by men and constructing a false narrative that leaves them open to be abused in real life if an adult male acts on his choice to abuse teenage girls who neurobiologically speaking, cannot consent. It's manipulation of the truth towards those who are easily manipulatable since their brains arent finished developing enough to be more thoroughly critical of outside messages and messaging they receive. That false narrative that Shoujo is constructing, is a tactic that is textbook grooming. That's literally the definition of grooming.

[@marthsimp12]

@@turtlie7309 I also saw a post a while back, but I only commented saying I hated it bc of trauma (sa from school staff + abusive teacher trying to hit me up after i turned 18) and then hell went loose in my dms there

[@ripzega.8355]

The healthiest manga I know is Lovely Complex, and precisely the teacher never respond the feelings of the girl, he didn’t even took it seriously because knew it was admiration not love

[@shireenrazak7160]

Mighty sensei was a bit weird but glad he never preyed on em. Plus, he had a girlfriend.

[@D.A-Designs]

The only good thing about Domestic Girlfriend was the opening, it had no right being that much of a BANGER!

[@zainmudassir2964]

I love fruits baskets but some relationships were indeed eyebrow raising between minors and adults. Thanks for this thoughtful vid it's ok to be critical of certain aspects in media you like

[@RonniV2]

As someone who didn't see Fruits Baskets until I was an adult, there were SEVERAL worrisome relationships in that show. I do love the show, but there were so many times I was uncomfortable. I thought Shigure and Akito's relationship was so... not okay. I never watched the prequel, so this is all new to me. I just assumed that Tohru's parents weren't that far apart in age and maybe met while she was a senior or in college. I hate how problematic that show/manga is, but I also love the story and characters. Edit: I also appreciate mangakas like Io Sakisaka who addresses these kinds of inappropriate relationships. In Ao Haru Ride, she addresses student/teacher relationships and the teacher turns the student down and she eventually falls for her classmate. While it was a B plot, I think it was an important plot point because it showed how these situations should be handled.

[@ninawii5318]

I really enjoyed this trope as a teen and while i was in school teachers really just looked at the kids as kids and it wasnt until a new young teacher arrived that I realised how weird this trope is, because i could feel how he treated me and others differently and it creeped me out so much i refused to be with him alone in a classroom. A few years later i come to hear he was fired for having multiple relationships with students in another school, he was banned from teaching. After highschool i could never really read the trope anymore it just creeped me out

[@GuardianOfMoon]

The trope that tarnished Cardcaptor Sakura so much that the reboot removed both characters from the series lol lets goooo After watching, what another great topic you touched on: anime where the female lead should drop out of school to be married and have babies. I remember my friend and I, also in HS at the time, being frustrated with this trope. We loved Kagome from Inuyasha because she was constantly shown to be attempting a school life (horribly, BUT she was trying, not just saying "oh well, I have a boyfriend now"). Almost all of Yuu Watase's works have this theme, that the ending of Imadoki shocked me.

[@basilchi8058]

After the Rain is a good example of an age gap romance done well. While, there are a few unnecessary scenes in the beginning that make me cringe, the show portrays the teenage one side affections for an older guy as a phase to cope with an injury. The older male character is also great. He turns down her feelings but treats her with respect and helps her.

[@arubi012]

Finally someone mentioned After the Rain 💋

[@foxboxtrot9436]

I remember reading card captor sakura and assumed that her classmate's lover was like a few years older (you know still a kid). Then when it was revealed it was their teacher and that they were engaged (or had promise rings) I was like: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! DON'T DO THIS! I think if I remember correctly from the little I've read of the sequel Clear Card the girl is still being groomed.

[@redpetallady]

Card Captor Sakura always bothered me. Sakura said "My father was my mother's teacher." and I just uuuugggghhhhh... noooo...

[@ophelie2620]

Bro, nooooooooo but he was such a sweetheart. Why Sakura whyyyy???

[@pianomai-m1d]

SHE DID?? 😭😭

[@shireenrazak7160]

Im glad her mom's side was against em cause uh😭

[@ursamjr4406]

​@@shireenrazak7160 forever hating AS THEY SHOULD

[@ursamjr4406]

​@@pianomai-m1d they were like 16 and 30 if remember correctly 🤮

[@layla-8369]

I understand what Colleen says about these series being there as fantasy fullfilment. Many of us have crushes on our teachers irl, but I agree with you that there is a difference between portrayal (which is good) and endorsement (or romantization, which isn't good). In the end i think the problem lies also with the target demographic, and the middle/high school setting. Like, if some of this series did not happen in a high school setting and instead happened in college setting I'd be a little different. Sure, the teacher-student, age gap and taboo elements stay there but at least now the protagonists would both be adults, possiblt allowing for a little more nuance (but far as I know many josei series of this type are set in high school anyways so). I still can enjoy some of these stories (i remember binging Scum's wish and loved that most of them were just. Bad people), but at the end of the day fiction affects reality too so as you said, it's important to reflect on these topics. On a final note, I think the only anime that portrays something similar to this in a way that I thought was overall good was After the rain, where a 17yo high schooler falls for her middle aged part-time job manager.

[@pusheenqueen519]

I absolutely adore After the Rain! It's such a beautiful story, it's a shame it didn't get more attention, I know a lot of people thought it was going to be another weird age gap romance with an adult man going after a high school girl when it came out.

[@anyone1111]

After the rain is so beautiful! I watched it without even knowing the premise of the movie and I’m so glad I did! (I probably wouldn’t have as I would’ve thought it was like weird so^^)

[@layla-8369]

@@anyone1111 same as you! I saw some screencaps and gifs and thought it looked pretty and half-read the synopsis on Prime which did mention something about both characters but since it's kind of slice of life I kind of went in thinking it was a friendship --and at the end of the day I guess I wasn't that wrong! After episode 1 I was like "ok, I'll give you a chance but you're on thin ice". Still shocked to see the series labeled as a "romance" in many places 😅

[@anyone1111]

@@layla-8369 RIGHT! If anything it should be slice of life but I’m not surprised, I wonder if it’s to get more people to watch it? I’m not sure lol, but it really is so beautiful!

[@Torchy7321]

@@anyone1111I know this comment is 1 year ago but another series that’s currently airing that portrays a larger kind of age gap dynamic but it’s mostly used as for drama and moving on is Tsuma shougakusei ni naru. (If my wife becomes a elementary school student) very sus title but the actual show tackles very serious subjects in a realistic manner, Sure primese isn’t for everyone but my point still stands

[@Sailorlluna]

Hitorijime my hero is insane bc not only does everyone know about the relationship but they all try super hard to help the couple hide it… EVEN A COP!!! A COP!!!

[@TheSilviepie]

Excellent analysis video! I'm glad someone's talking about this topic. I guess it's normal for younger girls to fantasize about an older, more mature man whisking her away, but romanticizing it in media totally neglects how harmful these depictions can be. In fact, I wish there were more cautionary tales of this trope in anime and manga. Blue was such a nicely done series despite being so short.

[@andromeda_va39]

I just realized that I myself was nearly a victim of grooming. Not by a teacher, just by some rando on the internet. I was in a bad situation (my grandma had just died) and this guy comes along in my game and cheers me up with a reference to my favorite anime. We chat for a bit, then he starts asking me for contact info. I politely refuse, but he keeps pushing. I refuse more firmly, then ultimately log off. Real grooming probably happens over a much longer period, but the pattern was there. I was in a vulnerable state, he gave me positive attention, then he made his move.

[@KayGee_yt]

Never seen the fruits basket movie, but I think the fact that Toru is painted in that show as a shining light on everyone and everything - her beginnings are important. At the very LEAST they're saying a child of parents of abuse can come out the other end basically unscathed and make their section of the world a much better place

[@ColleensMangaRecs]

Great video as always Kay!! Thanks for having me join on for this one 🙏🙏

[@itsbasicboi]

Thank you for joining me Colleen :)))

[@claradoesnothing]

I had a crush on my English teacher in middle school so I like reading this stuff but I really gotta turn my brain off to enjoy it properly.

[@amadeus3076]

I love cardcaptor Sakura but the student teacher relationship is such an ick for me😭😭😭

[@thedramaticbarbie9786]

There is this manga called "Ran and the ashen world", the manga has a beautiful art style and it is presented as a magical slice of life, with wizards, shape shifters and all sort of magical creatures. However it has a massive problem with big age gap relationships, the protagonist who is a 10 year old girl has the ability to change her appearance to that of a 18-20 year old and while she is in this form she meets a 29 year old and they start flirting and stuff. There are much more information that I am leaving out of this story because it just so complicated, the thing is that they start to go out and a lot of people in the story start to call them out but ultimately don't do nothing more to stop the relationship. The only one that actually tries his best to end it is the other romantic interest and he is a 10 year old just like the protag. Like the protags brother tries to stop it but for some reason doesn't do more than just scold the protagonist and the pedophile. The worst part of it all is that the story start to revolve around the pedophile and his is literally the worst piece of shit that could ever exist. And also he was so far removed from the rest of the cast because when he untimely dies ( yes he dies thank God) nobody but the protagonist cares, and she just cared for like 2 chapters until she completely forgets about him... AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH Clearly I have so many opinions of this story, when it was good it was amazing but when it was bad it was down right mocking my intelligence. Like the author tries to make us feel bad for the pedophile and all, and I am just like "are you fucking joking".... AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH Anyway if anyone has read this manga pls interact because I need to talk about this I am traumatized by this story T.T

[@RaisonLychi]

I have that manga, it's so... So.. SO GORGEOUS. But the age gap romance was creepy.. And they did it twice.

[@bleedingroze]

Dude totally. Love the manga, I’ve read it several times but it’s always so gross to read the chapters between Ran and that guy (can’t even remember his name I block it out so hard). He doesn’t even know she’s a child, but he still assumes she’s a high school at best which is still disturbing. All the other romance in the series is so fire and I’m happy that Ran ended up having feelings for her childhood friend since they’re an adorable couple, but the manga still left me feeling icky. I guess a lot of the manga themes were the effects of trying to grow up too fast, but I don’t think the artist really tried to paint the age gap in a negative light if that’s what they were going for.

[@itsjustandiii3847]

I was devastated when I found out Tohru’s dad was Kyoko’s middle school teacher. It made me feel so sick especially since I feel like fruits basket is such an amazing anime/manga as it depicts how trauma can affect a person in different ways through the zodiac members. The fact that this is not the only adult relationship with a minor in the anime is also disappointing like Shigure with Rin (implied), and kazuma with Arisa. I was so excited when the movie came out only to find out that it basically glorified the teacher x student relationship.

[@jeagerzbomb9924]

I feel like making Katsuya a teacher was pointless to the story and was just a bad way to capitalize on the feelings of the main consumers of Fruit Baskets, which were young girls. Basically the author took advantage of the fact that a lot of girls' first loves might have been an adult and romanticized a problem. Katsuya could've still worked in the story if they just made him a student like Kyoko but of a well-off family which could've still caused Katsuya's family to not like a delinquent like Kyoko and by extension Tohru.

[@missbeans]

Right? There are sooo many ways this could have been handled better, with only minor tweaks that wouldn't have affected the story at all.

[@mushroomlena]

I was so excited for the Prelude to Fruits Basket. But I heard of the premise and immediately noped out. Your explanation of the plot makes me so sad for Tohru’s mom.

[@chanela.7786]

After the rain is such a refreshing look at the topic and isn’t sexualized at all

[@lodestar_raf521]

yea this trope has always been a creepy one

[@TheAnimeTea]

Another great analysis Kay!! I finally just watched fruits basket the prelude and was floored by the depiction of Kyoko and Katsuya’s relationship. As Colleen mentioned it made sense story wise but they’re could have been a way to change the story so that Katsuya was was not depicted as “princely”. We could blame it on the time (90s had lots of student x teacher depictions) but many modern examples still exist.

[@spillinda]

I love fruits basket, it did a lot for me in my childhood, but when I read the manga and got to Kyoko's story I was definitely uncomfortable. It was hard to be happy with this part of the story and think you said it perfectly. The show has its problems and many different types of trauma and this is one of them that I wish was framed a little differently. I wish they just had their story in the anime instead of its own movie. The movie puts too much focus on them as couple to be romanticized, instead of a maybe-not-so-great situation for Kyoko (and even Katsuya) that turned into Torhu being born and there being one good thing coming out of their whole story.

[@bespectacledheroine7292]

We need to talk about this insofar as letting kids know grown adults meant to guide and help you taking advantage of you is wrong wrong wrong, but at the same time there's nothing wrong with a fantasy and telling teens they're disgusting for even imagining this and enjoying that content is policing something that's their business alone. I was a lonely nerd girl with no friends in school and the *idea* of a teacher relationship was always appealing to me and within the confines of a fantasy fun to explore. The boys my age just didn't appreciate me and I was too mature for them. But I had the good sense to know it was better kept to myself and that's the important thing.

[@khadizabhuiyan.random2758]

I would actually like to see an anime where a teacher and student are actually like friends, buddies or even have a sibling like relationship instead of these "romantic" ones.

[@awetistic5295]

We had an art teacher that was a bit too close with the students, especially the girls, and also took part in bullying. He basically groomed one of his students during high school and married her after she graduated. A few years later he went to jail for SA. Of course not everyone will go that far down the road, but if you keep on pushing boundaries, it's a huge red flag.

[@Neo-Queenserenityt2l]

I find it really disgusting because not only are Japan putting it in anime but they also make live action dramas about it as well like yes you can love who you want but not when said person is in a position above you and has power over you

[@jvever4904]

Really loving the way you covered this topic with class and proper disgust at the encouragement of pedophilia a lot of student/teacher romances in manga and anime has. Plus the Jordan Theresa clip shows you've got extra good taste. You've earned a sub from me!

[@Meimoons]

Gakuen Alice has this trope! 💀 The female lead’s mother was a student and her father was a teacher. 💀💀

[@MichellaneousMe]

wow I remember reading domestic girlfriend! I dropped it once it focused on the english teacher hina. I wanted him and to become closer with rui, but I could tell he was going to end up with hina which disappointed me and I called quits on the series altogether. I didn't even know it had an animated adaptation until I saw your video lol

[@mooony22]

Tears, I didnt believe you and searched it up and found this. Kuzu no hokai. Short story of the summary, its a love triangle where the main girl falls in love with her homeroom teacher. Ok sounds sorta normal- for this genre I mean . HE"S HERR BROTHERRRRRRRRR. WTFFFFFFF

[@Erika-ce7ps]

omg Papillion!!! That’s a manga that’s been on the top of my tongue for ages…bc I read it in middle school…FROM MY SCHOOL LIBRARY 😬 (someone obviously didn’t check it before accepting the donation) I remember how the author light hearted-ly mentioned how she researched by talking to actual school counselors 😬 yikes

[@maren7817]

I remember reading daytime shooting star and I actually quite enjoyed it, I was relieved when she ended up with her classmate and not the weirdo teacher lol

[@raynacarraway440]

I haven't read the manga for CardCaptor Sakura, but I remember when I binged watched the anime in 2020 that Kaho gave me weird vibes and iirc I was scared they were going to make her and Touya an item since I had recently read the backstory of Kyoko and Katsuya just a few months prior. While that thankfully didn't happen, I'll never forget the major disappointment I felt when Sakura's top tier dad was shown to have a relationship in the same vein as Tohru's parents and I'm surprised that wasn't brought up too. Like I love Sakura's dad probably more than I was supposed to, he was a great father and gave off such kind + comforting vibes and then Clamp had to go and make him fall for Sakura's mom while she was a student and he was a teacher (can't remember the specifics). There's also a lot of weird feelings from one cousin to another in that series that I don't see anyone talking about as well (Tomoyo's feelings towards Sakura and her mother's feelings towards Sakura's mother), but that's a different story. Arisa and Kureno's relationship from Fruits Basket also makes me really sad cause they'd probably be one of my favorite couples from the series if their age gap wasn't a thing/if she wasn't still actively a high school student when they met and started having feelings for each other. It was just really disheartening as a teenage girl to finally reads/watch such classic shoujo series that are both really good, and then have to witness "relationships" like these shown as romantic and something I should want in my own life (since Kyoko and Katsuya's story was absent from the reboot I thought it wasn't gonna be mentioned at all with how gross it is, only to then later see the FB movie announcement with those two on the poster). I'm grateful I could tell that I shouldn't want to be in situations like those, but there are others that won't see these as "relationship goals" and that's scary to think about

[@Artlesbi]

it's such a disgusting yet common trope in manga and anime which I found hard to avoid in shojo but also in shonen like GTO ( the protagonist's whole story is just him trying to marry an underage student as a teacher. vomit. ) Disgusting because it's never presented as problematic. In shojo I basically mentally blocked out the fact one was an adult predator as I read but I stopped doing this because it felt like I was overlooking how toxic the situation actually was in order to enjoy the romance elements.

[@missbeans]

I really appreciate you covering this topic! Furuba is very near and dear to my heart, and played a key role in my healing from a toxic and dysfunctional childhood, breaking free from my toxic parents, and breaking the cycle with my own kids. I was in my early 20s and not the target demographic when it was first being published, but it was very much needed and appreciated by me at that time in my life. But this aspect of the series really squicks me out, because of the way it is portrayed. Furuba is over-flowing with toxic and/or abusive relationships, which get confronted and dealt with, and the victims break free and move forward. It's healing and empowering! However in Tohru's parents' situation, poor Kyoko was groomed and subsequently child-trapped by a predator (like come on dude, at least use protection so Kyoko is not a teen mom!!), and the predator is put on a pedestal as a savior. It's so gross. And then the author perpetuates the cyle with Arisa and Kureno! As much as I am grateful to her for creating Furuba and portraying situations that are normally swept under the rug by society, she really dropped the ball with these two relationships (well, three if we include the squicky toxic disaster that is Shigure/Akito). I feel like these portrayals were careless and irresponsible of the author. The target demographic are still young and impressionable. Don't romanticize and idealize these types of relationships. In any case, I've seen how one of these types of "relationships" plays out IRL. My SIL was groomed by her high school teacher (at a private religous school, the Ethics and Morals teacher, no less), she became pregnant at 17 and tried to kill herself. Thankfully she survived and got help, the family stood by her, won a giant lawsuit against the school, the teacher (who btw was in his 30s and married with a daughter my SIL's age!!) got thrown in jail for like 15 years. She decided to keep the baby and he is a sweet young man now finishing up college. However the whole thing, even playing out in the best way possible under such circumtances (with a generous financial settlement, support from family, predator in jail, a loving and supportive step-dad stepping up to the plate as a father-figure for the child and loving husband for my SIL, etc) absolutely devastated my SIL and she struggled big time for many many years.

[@parasemprealice5684]

The only "functional" relationship between a teacher and a student is in Chobits. But ONLY because that wasn't a school but a course to get in a university. (Like he was around 21 and she 28, big deal. 🙄)

[@s2sHoXXs2]

Yeah that's not bad, its a course and not a structured educational institution and theyre both adults in their 20s. things like that can happen and be fine

[@SemekiIzuio]

Yup tweens are still p stupid and havent grown into themselves yet. They are in the stage in their life of being self observed and thinking they know all the answers. At least early 20s you then become accountable for your own responsibilities and mistaked.

[@genericangst8665]

Honestly whenever I think about teacher-student relationships, I think about Gakuen Alice, because Mikan's (the main character) parents fit that trope exactly, like her mom was in e l e m e n t a r y school when she met Mikan's dad (who was a 20-something), and the whole fucking time when I was reading about the two of them, I was severely icked out. Fortunately, the main pairing (Mikan and Natsume) barely have an age gap, they're just a few months apart. Their relationship isn't perfect either (especially in the beginning oof 😬😬), but as time goes on (beyond the first Christmas party) they get a lot better. I'm just glad that Mikan didn't end up in a similar situation like her mom did (esp bc her mom got pregnant with her at like,,, 16, and her dad died like, not even a full 24 hours after Mikan's conception).

[@PichuElric]

As a person in college to train to be a teacher 💀💀💀 Seriously will need to keep an eye out

[@averlinbc5680]

so as far as I can remember…..great teacher onizuka (male)and Gokusen(female) are where They explore the fact that yes students are attracted to Younger teachers….. but the teachers are not gonna doing anything ….. also interesting fact some of Japan’s most prominent historical literature taught in school has an unfortunate story about grooming …..it’s like the equivalent of Romeo and Juliet for Westerns ….It’s about an noble man buying a girl and grooming her to be the perfect wife as a replacement for someone he couldn’t have😅 don’t quote me but I think that someone was his stepmum who’s the same ages as him…😮

[@martinaelyse9152]

For me, I think one of the only times where this trope works is in The Garden of Words, and that's because its more about connections rather than romance. I don't wanna spoil the plot here since it's a really good movie which I recommend y'all give a try. (Also Kana Hanazawa did an AMAZING job in this movie)

[@dragoncat5767]

It's most likely implied the relationship started when the student is no more 15,when he said he is gonna give her the shoes

[@lovebyte5759]

you are wayyyy underrated !!!! great video !

[@crownedoll]

I had no idea about the Fruits Basket thing I’m so shocked, it has been one of my favorite series for the longest time too.

[@Quinn-Harrison]

I can understand "befriending" a teacher in your late years of high school because then they're treating you like an equal. Actually, it's not even a friendship, more like a coworker and manager type of relationship. Juniors/Seniors are aged 16-18, and that's seriously close to becoming an adult where they need to get accustomed to not being afraid of older adults as disciplinarians. I still hate the fact that high schoolers need to ask before using the bathroom, and then they're all awkward in college because they're not even used to the common courtesy of not needing permission just to pee! Anyway, I can understand the relationship between teachers and students changing but only to the point of mutual respect between an employee and a supervisor/ manager.

[@hydregyoutube7630]

Ohkawa, the storywriter within CLAMP very clearly has student-teacher complex. In multiple of their series there are characters in romantic relationships with very specific age gap of 9 years with either teachers or people with teacher-like authority, where the younger partner is a teenager and the older is in their twenties. She likes this trope so much she even wrote a scenario for Koi anthology illustrated by people outside CLAMP about a girl waiting to graduate and marry her teacher. I didn't really notice this as a teenager, but as an adult, yeah it's kinda hard to ignore. But also being an adult I've come to understand this is just one of classic shoujo romance tropes, a romantic and idealized fantasy of a pubescent person and got over it. It's hardly a grooming material. CLAMP's approach is very, very idealized and unrealistic, taking place in a world where character's actions not considered inappropriate as long as they're "pure". No one takes advantage of anyone, no one objects, both parties are portrayed as equally emotionally mature, there's no power imbalance. Does it make it any better or worse as an example of this trope? I guess it's up to the reader.

[@LaNoir.]

With CLAMP, I never have the feeling that the plot is aimed at the audience it is marketed to. Their stories are dark, improper, heart-wrenching. Just because a kid is the main protagonist doesn't mean it should be read by kids the same age. As a kid back then, I liked this. I was mature enough to differ between fiction and reality, and just enjoyed the different approach of things. That's not the case for everyone, and that's why age is a very vague indicator of one's matureness. I can't excuse those minor-teacher-relationships, but I still admire their way of writing freely, without boundaries. It's what makes their stories unpredictable and captivating. Especially xXxholic has a very special place in my heart, but also Chobits whose melancholy hit a nerve. Another author I hold dearly that goes into that direction is Yuu Watase, she doesn't fear to go into dark and bloody territory, the opposite of what people expect when hearing shojo as a genre.

[@ettaetta439]

The problem is that their stories are still marketed towards young people, so they still have some influence on how young kids feel about teacher-student relationships.

[@bobob9969]

CCS was 100% marketed to kids, the merch was all aimed at kids, I saw the show and read the mangas when I was 9 years old. "Shoujo" genre literally means FOR LITTLE GIRLS. Josei is shoujo for adult women. It's scarily influential and the material is 100% grooming

[@jojolyneee]

To deny the material isn't grooming is diabolical

[@OliverJooy]

Oh my God, When I clicked here I immediately thought of "Faster than a Kiss" because it was a manga that I was OBSESSED with because, at the time I was FIFTEEN, I was dating a 20 year old man. Now as an adult I see clearly all the obvious problems involved, but at the time I LOVED this manga, nowadays I get chills just remembering it. TEENAGE Girls, don't date older men. Have crushes on people your age.

[@moaday9952]

This is very much not what I think anyone was going for with Fruits Basket. But in some ways, though I do genuinely feel disturbed watching tohru’s parents’ relationship, it’s a weirdly beautiful tragedy story for Kyoko in particular. Life just f*cked her over from the start, and she literally felt no love in her life at all until Honda. And even then it’s not healthy, due to the age gap, power imbalance, her mental health revolving around having a child. But I guess for her it’s better than what she had before, because he seems to genuinely love her, though he clearly has a Lolita complex that’s effecting him. So really, the only pure love she has is with her daughter, and she vows to make sure she is unconditionally loved and cherished. But that’s just my hot take

[@kywillis948]

I don’t think I’d ever have a relationship like that with a teacher bc 1.) I’ve been traumatized from making any type of talk with a teacher beyond asking questions or for help 2.) I feel like it’s very taboo to date someone that’s helping you gain knowledge but to each their own Ig

[@dragoncat5767]

What if the teacher is ex teacher and you are not a minor

[@kywillis948]

@@dragoncat5767 still wouldn't bc like I said I've been traumatized by teachers at a young age and that's a memory I’ll never forget no matter what. plus I can't even talk to a teacher without feeling like they are mad at me or judging me based on my performance even though I'm a basic to mastery student.

[@dragoncat5767]

@@kywillis948 i am sorry for you,but i think so, keeping this topic aside,you need to think about overcome this fear, because you also have to face other things in life. I also have been made fun of and bullied by multiple classmates when i was a kid, because i was too much people pleasing even to those to who were toxic to me and i used to try to be friends with seniors who made fun of me. But now,even if i am matured, atleast i am matured enough to decide who to be friends with and not be friendly with those make fun of me,even if they are seniors or more experienced in life than me. I can kind of stand up to myself,now. Even if i have lot to improve. I am kind and nice to everyone i meet,but i draw enough lines to whom be friendly or close to So it's kind of important to overcome whatever trauma you had faced,if not,then think if you are working under a boss in a company or any boss,then you wouldn't even to do anything if you are being abused.

[@cycymaca]

Me too. I just looked at my teachers either like that funny teacher u make light jokes with or that teacher i dislike😂😂😂 No in betweens. But seriously,teachers reciprocating their students crushing is a sign that says, "run for the hills."

[@dragoncat5767]

@@cycymaca well,if a teacher reciprocates after the student is a graduate/adult. Then it's ok,and great,imo Atleast better than doing something,when the student is a minor. And at that time there is no teacher/student relationship obligation It's not necessarily a bad thing,imo

[@borikenhazel]

It's really refreshing to see someone talk about this disturbing trope for what it is. Thanks for your honest opinions.

[@lust4lyfe101]

I personally love forbidden love in anime as it makes a more dramatic storytelling. However we have to teach people between what is fake and what is real as I would never want this in real life.

[@s2sHoXXs2]

I think im just so tired of seeing it romanticized, it's so common and commonly targeted towards minors. I think a great manga that deals with stuff like this and shows the horrifying side of it is A Cruel God Reigns, its a popular classic and I recommend it if you havent read it and are in a good headspace (tons of potential triggering topics)

[@butchbf2612]

Children read these series and believe that these things are okay. Art influences societal norms and what people think is okay

[@lust4lyfe101]

@@butchbf2612 which is why we have to tell them the differences . I read many books, novels and mangas of stories that should not happen in the real world. If a parent can’t teach their children that than as a parent they have to get their children help. An example: the child that killed himself cause Itachi from Naruto died and the parents knew he wasn’t right but did not teach him the difference or got him help.

[@skainzzz_]

pedophilia and grooming is not "forbidden love" pls be serious 💀

[@skainzzz_]

@@lust4lyfe101 dude, the comparison ur giving does not carry the same weight. The problem with these relationships isn't the relationship itself, but how it is potrayed. Yea creating student x teacher relationships isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as it's the plot behind some psychological horror story, not romance as there is nothing romantic about fucking pedophilia.

[@letranger4461]

I read fruits basket in my first year of high school. I don’t like the prevalence of student-teacher relationships in teen dramas and shoujo. Having read them when I was still a naive teenager who thought i was so mature for my age, I think stories like Katsuya and Kyoko are supposed to be wish fulfillment in that a young girl gets the unwavering support of someone older. I related to Kyoko as a kid because I went through some traumatic things and didn’t have adequate support. So i bought in the framing of Katsuya. Obviously that is not how real life works. Most of the time, the older party is taking advantage of the younger’s vulnerability. And it is dangerous to romanticize it.

[@aaramccrory1987]

Yeah, I think this trope is about wish fulfillment. A lot of young people long for that kind of attention from an older and more experienced adult. But it's the adult's job to say NO.

[@LadyDnMiller]

I started reading manga and watching anime as a teen. I explained away a lot of problematic things as pure love. However even as a teen, I drew the line for Kyoko's relationship and felt it was just weird. Now as a 29-year-old, and researching Fruit's Basket I was just... completely floored..that this man is viewed as a knight in shining armor. And ironically a lot of romance I once loved as a teen I am disgusted as an adult. I might read Blue now bc of how this trope is portrayed.

[@anitanielsen1061]

Your voice is so nice, I could listen to you do an ASMR

[@TheCyberPlush]

I might have read fruits basket too young because for some reason I remember tohrus mom was held back because of her situation and she was 18 in high school getting older and the dad was a young teacher helping her to graduate, still not ideal though but my mind remembered her being a lil older, but yeah it was more ick in reality : (

[@SemekiIzuio]

That would have been alot better told and sympathetic as to why their relationship took that turn because it was a tad better then the abuse she had before. She still ended up suffering regardless but at least she had Tohru

[@missbeans]

I vaguely have the same recollection. I wonder if that's how the OG anime adapted Kyoko's backstory. Or if that's just where our brains naturally went given the limited details we were given at the time (the way Kyoko was drawn in the limited flash-backs we get of her earlier in the series, she looks much older than a middle-schooler). That would still have been problematic, but not NEARLY as problematic as Kyoko being a middle-schooler.

[@rurisuoh7919]

Way before, I worked as a teacher. I started when I was 19 and stopped when I was 25. In my first 3 years of teaching, I was teaching senior high students (ages between 16 to 18) and some would make advances to me, but I just saw them as my children/siblings :v When i was 22, I was transferred at the college department as an English instructor. I've got a boyfriend, a college student who has the same age as me but studies in a different school... like VERY FAR away from my school. Most of my co-workers were 5-10 or even 20 years older than me. When they found out that I had a relationship, they asked me this: Them: Oh, you have a bf? Me: Yes ^^ Them: Oh, are they a student here too? Me: ((TOO?! WHAYYA MEAN TOO?! WTF THATS BREACHING OF CONTRACT)) UHMM NO. And then I found out that teachers there having relationships with college students (probably age appropriate but IDK since some college students there were very young. I even became a college at 16 lol) like it's a normal thing at work. AND JUST.. WTF. I CAN'T. BTW the guy I've been in a relationship at this time is still my bf :D

[@vanniagallegos3374]

A long time ago I remember reading about arranged marriages with teachers were something common in Japan, when the daughter didn't get to get married at certain age... Don't even remember where I read that, but if it's (or was) true maybe that's why this trope is so easy to find in manga, like a way to cope with an arrange marriage idk

[@Persephone01]

I never ever had a crush on any of my teachers when I was younger and found it repulsing. I stay away from animes that show this relationship positively. It just creeps me out.

[@theshire9173]

I watched Fruitsbasket but avoided the movie due to the student-teacher thing. Hearing that Kyoko’s parents disowned her for pursuing a relationship with her teacher enrages me. Your daughter is a victim! Help her in her time of need! It reminds me of the many parents in real life who abandon their teenage daughters when they become pregnant (when they need parental support the most). Those parents are bad parents when they see these problems as reasons to abandon their daughters instead of helping them through tough situations. Abandoning your daughter won’t make the pregnancy or that daughter or her pedo teacher disappear

[@michaelio6548]

On the topic of portrayal vs endorsing: my general rule is that if people in a toxic relationship end up together as long as people who oppose the relationship aren’t made out to be villains or needing to change their views then it’s not necessarily endorsing it

[@cauzie8281]

I DID NOT KNOW THAT ABOUT FRUIT BASKET-that took me out Bruhhh and as someone who is interested in studying why books get banned-I KNOW WHAT THAT BOOK IS ABOUT

[@chichivandoll]

I never heard of Marmalade boy before this and after this video I have to say this was a rollercoaster and a half.

[@ryotengoku99]

I love how you showed a bad example and a good example of handling such a revolting topic. Blue definitely has a spot on my reading list now, for it's truthful protrayal of a groomer's actions towards the minor building their boundaries. The fact that the mangaka depicted the minor establishing their discomfort and doubt in the whole situation, is very relieving. Idk about other victims, but I had moments of confusion, doubt and discomfort in what was going on. Another thing the mangaka did well would be that they do not gloss through the ugly sides of being groomed. I am glad there are more works out now that do not endorse such vile and pedophilic behaviours.

[@DororoXPenana]

The fruits basket prelude still upsets me to this day. I LOVE that show and it is crazy to think, from all the characters who went through various types of trauma I am surprised Kyoko's relationship with Katsuya wasn't the REAL trauma she experienced. This would have been the best story to explore that type of toxicity. It was a highly inappropriate and the author could have had a great chance to show the true consequences from having that type of toxic relationship. Even if it was later on when he essentially baby trapped her and she realizes how wrong he was for taking advantage of her when she was extremely vulnerable. Maybe she almost chooses to get rid of the baby but she decides to give it up for adoption until she holds her for the first time and vows to protect her from going through what she did.

[@chosoistryinghisbest]

its just so icky. it's why i have an issue reading and watching fruits basket all the time. i love the series because a lot of it did age well and are still relevant today. it's a series dealing with trauma and grief in ways that I still find very powerful to this day. however my issue is that there's some really bad age gaps. Kyoko was 14 and Katsuya was 22. she was still in middle school, she never made it to high school, and he was her teacher. i should not have to explain how extremely inappropriate and morally wrong this relationship is. and i just know the people defending this kind of relationship are either 12 with 0 relationship experience or people who let nostalgia cloud their morals. We can enjoy media that have problematic tropes, but I would like to believe that we can all acknowledge that things were wrong and not excuse them. I don't think it matters if it was normal back then, because we do and absolutely should condemn it now. again, i love fruits basket a lot. i rewatch it like once a year for the past decade now. and i probably shouldn't have watched or read fruits basket as young as I should have, but in the time that I first watched it to the most recent rewatch, I've grown to actually understand the relationships in fruits basket and see some of them as the immoral and inappropriate relationships that they are. I also see a lot of older fans get mad that people point out that Katsuya was a p3dophile, and I think they think that because they don't want to feel bad that they supported a p3do character and that would make them a bad person. If you don't see a 22 year old man dating and getting married to a 14 year old girl as a p3do,,,,i have no words for you. If THIS is a hill you want to die on, you can but me personally, I'm not going to sit here and defend a groomer. And I'm also seeing people defend him because he saved her. if the bar is that low, i hope NONE of you are around children. just because he saved her, does NOT mean that we should allow him to be with Kyoko when she was 14 !!!! 14 !!!!!!!!! let's not lose sight of that

[@MichellaneousMe]

omg your little sister is so cute!

[@Nikita_Akashya]

Fruits Basket is being rereleased in Germany currently and I have to say some of the relationships really make me uncomfortable. But at least I know they are fictional. The main couples are fine, like Tohru and Kyo and Yuki and Machi. Or Hatoris relationship with most of the cast. Arisa/Kureno and Tohrus parents are a bit problematic, but not the focus, so I can mostly ignore it. I enjoy Fruits Basket for what it is and don't read too much into it. I'm actually glad the Prelude story was not in the main show. I do have a few shoujo manga, but somehow skipped every manga with student teacher relationships in it. Rockin Heaven just has Mister Myaji, who is a bit of an ass, but he mellows out later. Mayu Sakai actually portraits most of the relationships quite well and people actually talk to each other! I only have Jeanne from Miss Tanemura, but that story also deals with things in a good way. At least I don't remember any predators being portaryed on a positive light. But I prefer fantasy shows anyway. Especially War dramas!

[@ynat2198]

Oh god that one clamp manga (suki dakara suki) with the young girl who lived by herself and the MUCH older teacher ugghh why clamp. Although i don't remember anything untoward happening (correct me if I'm wrong) it was heavily implied. Unfortunately i thought it was kind of ok at that time, i was a tween when it came out late 90s. I probably had a crush on a teacher at the time and thought i could relate :(

[@Moonlight-op4qo]

Idk whose gonna read this Hi! Just some thoughts on Fruits Basket please hear me out. I think the Katsuya and Kyoko was never meant to be a story about grooming that ended up being portrayed in bad light. It was a story about human connection that was compromised by a fetish. The whole theme of the story was how Kyoko managed to break the cycle of abuse through the love of someone else. Which is the main theme of Fruits Basket. And after Katsuya's death Kyoko has a speech about what it means to need someone and be needed. This is very much a story about a human bond and losing it. HOWEVER (and please hear me out here) it is compromised by a very weird and uncomfortable age gap that had no reason to ever exist. The narrative is dismissive of this fact cause the age gap and grooming was never meant to be focus of this section of the story. Unfortunately this was never meant to be the story of grooming done bad. Which makes this whole situation even worse cause now this narrative that has thematic relevance to the entire story is corrupted by something very uncomfortable and creepy. I myself never understood why they couldn't have both been adults why was this needed in the story????? And it makes me even more upset now cause really I wish more people talked about Kyoko's speech about human connection than this. I think it's very important to educated young people on why these relationships are wrong. And it's very important to call out endorsements of these relationships.Please don't attack me just my think piece 😭🙏

[@SoraLover1994]

You perfectly explained my entire thoughts on the relationship between Katsuya and Kyoko. It's one of my favorite arcs in the manga for the way that their relationship is structured. ....Even if it's still incredibly icky because of the age gap. Like, still not okay with that aspect. At all.

[@FlynnMegaTensei]

I get what you mean but I still find it weird they made her that young 😭😭

[@LaNoir.]

The only fault I see is the targeted audience. People have to understand that writing is not a process of making decisions, it's a flow. You write what your brain gives you, not what your consciousness tells you is right. I remember parents telling J.K.Rowling back when she still was writing Harry Potter (and wasn't the most hated human on earth) that she should not kill off any more humans in her story. That's intrusive. An artist's work is different to an artist's consciousness. You do not decide on the plot, the plot decides itself.

[@gotenson2231]

As creepy as it is executed, I think the reason that Kyoko was in middle school when all the bad hit the fan was to also portray that due to her bad choices, she got hit bad by the shaft. The delinquency in the late 80s to early 90s, a family of abusive and irresponsible "adults", a school system that fails kids that need help, and trying to claw one's way out of that cycle. If she was in college, those lessons would be more hindsight and Kyoko won't have a lot more motivation to pass onto Tohru to finish high school. By living tue regret of not graduating, going straight into workforce as a child with no chance of making happiness through life with real friendships, it gave all the more stakes in the story for Tohru to want to finish what her mother couldn't do. Sadly, even with Katsuya, it played a role to make Tohru who she is. The consequences of that relationship was there though as viewers, we saw the relatives who were against them as bad people. This is because we lived through Kyoko's eyes and Katsuya being portrayed through her eyes. In fact, the whole Katsuya being a Saint is just that. The story was portrayed through Kyoko's perspective. That's why I love that Tohru had that hatred for her father. His decisions robbed Kyoko of the life that she wanted to have. Even to the point that his decision to wed Kyoko instead of getting her help made her totally rely on him. Tohru seeing that he was a total villain was justified and I loved that about it.

[@FlynnMegaTensei]

@@gotenson2231 Katsuya just wanted a cupcake