I Played Destiny PvP Again And It Was... Actually Good?

[@skylerharris3914]

I think it’s obvious that since there is less ability spam, less special spam, that it’s harder to punish handholding. Which was the meta in the mostly primary sandbox in Y1.

[@gerbiluwu]

Eh. I'd argue most of the handholding comes FROM abilities and special weapons. Shotguns are easy as hell to use and a wide range of abilities are ludicrously cheesy.

[@co865co9]

​@@gerbiluwuif you dont use special weapons you csnt take a quick pick in a 1vs3 for exemple so people tend to stack up more with abilities such as jolt being rarer less way to punish people for being together

[@jcp1966]

​@@gerbiluwuspecial ammo counters handholding because you have to spend less time on each target

[@william3117]

@@gerbiluwuhandholding is when you group up as a team. In overwatch it’s death balling.

[@crah3432]

@@gerbiluwuhard disagree honestly. A team of 3 very well coordinated guardians team shotting is only counterable by the same thing when there’s no special ammo. So I’d imagine death balling is gonna be way more popular.

[@Forcer69]

Destiny having good PvP (even if it’s just in one gamemode) is something I’ve desperately needed.

[@vrrrmin]

I think when you make players less lethal individually and reduce uptime on abilities they can use to escape fights then they're naturally going to want to stick with their team more. I think Checkmate Rumble will play a lot better than 6v6.

[@thrilla72]

I mean, it is almost like we didn't experience this exact thing in D2 Y1

[@Ace-ob9yk]

Well looks like we need a buff on Cloudstrike and Graviton Lance to remind players that they shouldn’t walk together always

[@dreamingabyss]

@@thrilla72 It isn't nearly as bad as it was in Y1, and death-balling is always prevalent. Skilled players learn how to counter it. You can use grenades / single people out using stasis, AoE weapons like Graviton or LeMon, Cloudstrike, you can poke and corner peek to prevent multiple LoS on you. I have no issues dealing with it.

[@reckiuh]

People are allergic to using their brain to coordinate with teammates and play the game intelligently. Coming from any other shooter is hilarious

[@robertpalmer8080]

​@thrilla72 you can't compare everything to d2 y1, it's different now. Team shooting has always been and always will be a thing no matter what because it makes things easier for the people who can't hold their own in a 1v1.

[@Saiph_and_Sound]

The moving around the map together as "blobs" you mentioned reminds me of how D2 pvp and was at launch, with 4v4 Mida teamshot being the standard fare. I wonder if ttk/health shifts just naturally make people want to group huddle rather than spread out.

[@A_Block_of_Cheese]

Abilities and special ammo are what counters grouping up. Less of that = more grouping up.

[@altokia2724]

Nah, it's always been a thing. Like, if you run into two people, and all of you have your resources, then the two will always win unless it's a massive skill diff. So just playing with your teammates is always better, even if they throw a grenade, you just move around it and keep los on the enemy with your teammate, and commit to the kill, you're gonna be coming out with a trade at worst which is usually a good thing. Going off and doing your own thing is usually a throw play unless it's like a flank or smth while ur team is fighting.

[@raekwonchambers2297]

The thing bout d2y1 is the special weapons were in the heavy slot and you only got it when heavy was up so 99% was handholding w scouts. But our abilities are stronger now, special weapons aren’t in heavy slot and we get them faster than heavy. Just needs a few more tweaks to some weapons and maybe they can buff movement abilities like shorter cd to promote ppl using movement more

[@GeremyG]

Aside from a few needed changes, Checkmate is a good balance between the Y1 and the current sandbox.

[@FettuccineAllaGay]

a good thing to remember about Bad Juju in PvP is that within 25ish metres, you’re better off hip-firing than ads-ing, the insane bullet magnetism of hip-fire grip makes it easier to chain precision hits

[@jaredtherock5692]

I would love Checkmate to be a permenant mode. I wonder if the Special Ammo Transmat should behave much like the super bar and passively go up slowly overtime on top of the interactions if they planned on making a middle ground between this mode and the current state of PvP.

[@adambeck427]

That would incentivize camping to ensure you had special ammo for as many engagements as possible. I'm loving the idea that special ammo is something you have to work for. I'm so burnt out of spraying mindless shotgun apes charging at me because they just have special ammo. It feels akin to how super meter works in games like street fighter.

[@Lynxee3004]

⁠@@adambeck427 Sure it might incentivise camping to get special ammo, but I think that might get boring really quickly and those same people might just stop playing.

[@jaredtherock5692]

@@adambeck427 I think the difference would be how slowly it would recharge. I mean it being passive and slow as the super is in Checkmate rn

[@dreamingabyss]

Checkmate is wicked good. It's way better than the base PvP modes and really shows how easy it is to make PvP actually enjoyable. Checkmate should be the default.

[@liquidrufus]

It would be great till everyone starts team shooting from the back.

[@Tyztube21]

Checkmate as default sounds good to me

[@SamStraker]

I personally dont like checkmate tbh

[@patrickbarrio101]

@@liquidrufus Add that exploding mechanic that One of those Iron banners had where if you get a couple kills without dying it starts a timer that will eventually explode and kill you if you don't get more kills. I think that would be fun and kill teamshot camping if it also kills your teammates or damages them if caught in the blast.

[@DredgenAsh]

@@SamStrakermay I have your reasons as to why? Just curious as the majority of the people I know, including those who usually don’t touch PvP with a ten foot pole, seem to really enjoy it.

[@fakeplasticgamers9850]

There is ONE QoL adjustment that I really, really miss and it's just having a few voice lines for Shaxx for when anyone picks up Heavy Ammo and for when the Heavy Ammo carrier is killed. I know it shows on the HUD and the kill feed but it's so hard to keep track when there's so many voice lines for random crap that isn't useful, and it leads to a lot of frustration when I die to heavy ammo when I thought it was off the field a long time ago. Halo Infinite (and I'm assuming previous Halo games) does this well -- when a heavy weapon is about to become available, there's a voice line. When it's up, there's a voice line. And most importantly, there's a voice line for when someone picks it up, so you know if it's with your team or the enemy team no matter what you're doing. Dying to heavy ammo isn't the problem, the problem is not even knowing who has it and when, which is especially difficult in 6v6 modes.

[@iponce2]

I haven't played the older halos in a long time but I don't remember there being any indication someone had a power weapon unless you knew the map layout. Imagine if heavy spawned as soon as the round started but it wasn't marked, and it always spawned in the same like, 1 or 2 places. Maybe 3 on a larger map. That was older halo.

[@Resonosity]

This honestly sounds like D1 PvP in TTK days, so before Skorri's in RoI, and that was my favorite era of Destiny PvP. Scarcity and lethality of abilities is what makes firebolts, stickynades, shatternades, life steal voidlock melees feel so satisfying: they pack a punch IF you are skilled enough to place them at the right place at the right time at the right enemy. This is the meaning of a skill gradient in games. When you can spam stuff all the time, you care less and less about your precision of your abilities and generally more about accuracy. With scarcity and lethality, precision AND accuracy are key.

[@calebludrick239]

Correction, you can generate special ammo with a double primary loadout, you just don't see the special ammo transmat progress bar until you equip a special weapon.

[@failure1364]

Dad has uploaded

[@GammaJack7]

Daddo

[@FettuccineAllaGay]

I love how quickly we got a balance change for it too. Bows will defs still be hyper prevalent, but they’re an outlier in PvP regardless currently

[@Whatyoudexpect]

Checkmate is such a unique feeling modifier that I wouldn't even be against it becoming the new default mode. Maybe there's a sweet spot for points at like 125 but 100 feels too little and 150 would feel too much. Regardless, super pleased with how it's playing. Worth the hype bungie was giving it imo.

[@0leehewitt0]

Kinda feels like 6v6 trials with everbody hand holding and feels like you'll have to play sweaty every game which also a lot of players moan about in pvp on how sweaty it is all the time and that is what this game mode will become so I definitely wouldn't want it as the default node for crucible nit to mention most exotics guns and armor get made redundant if it did. Don't get me wrong it's a nice change but it doesn't replace control for me

[@MuhammadAli-qk2fe]

Checkmate feels good. I'm excited about the tuning changes they announced. It feels so good not having hunters dodge every 2 seconds. Also, it's great to see you in PvP again Datto, it feels like the good old days. Please do more PvP content.

[@quinnquitars]

Ive been wanting a playlist that has had these kinds of modifiers. So glad its finally here

[@Arskaaa..]

I've taken a break from the game since the last season of Witch Queen mainly because I was just so fed up with all related to pvp. I re-download the game just to try this mode out and omg this shit was fire. Gameplay felt awesome, there was actual gunfights, no ability and special spam, mostly good connections due to connection based mm. This shit was awesome, I hope this becomes a perma gamemode or atleast an ib game mode.

[@EtotheFnD]

I enjoy you discussing PVP buddy

[@enloeeagle7258]

Wow, when Datto mentioned Well being 30 seconds, it kinda blew my mind. I guess I kinda knew that? But it feels like it lasts FOREVER when used in PVE, it's like a safe haven. Really puts into perspective how much we have going on at any given moment in this game 😭

[@MrSuperalan99]

youre speaking facts bruther

[@a.bishop615]

Only problem I have with the mode is that hand cannons are extremely oppressive. Using anything else is a disadvantage. Unfortunately, that’s how most of the PvP community would like it to be. Other than that, it feels great

[@fluidparadigms6719]

@Datto Based on your commentary, would you say that you might be interested in some more "restrictive" game modes? What about restricted loadouts (if you could only queue into the playlist with autos and sidearms, for example)? Maybe have game modes with no grenades (or maybe *only* grenades but no class ability)? What about a game mode where you don't bring your own weapons at all, and the game rotates in locked, curated, loadouts?

[@gommyboi380]

Name one meta that has been fun that isnt just an iteration of handcannon sniper/shotgun.

[@Guile_The_Exile]

10:50 Because of the higher HP, this mode encourages team shooting hence why you saw more groups traveling together... :/

[@robertpalmer8080]

Team shooting will be prevalent no matter what you do. Increase health, decrease it, people will always group up because 2v1 halves the ttk.

[@Dredguno]

i like the shorter matches actually. faster rep gains and more rewards. plus less supers which is always better

[@letsgog8trs793]

faster matches doesnt allow you to enjoy the ACTUAL GAMEPLAY when its in a good state... who tf cares about lousy xp and rewards that dont feel rewarding??? as of now the main reason to play the mode and pvp is for fun and facing non AI opponents. please stop with the pve mindset of farming rep

[@punchykarma6685]

@@letsgog8trs793 I enjoy the actual gameplay in shorter matches lol. The normal control mode feels way to long. Games always go to the last seconds almost every time. Feels like a literal slogfest getting through it. You say we play PvP for fun. Well PvP is more fun in slightly shorter control matches. It does feel more rewarding, but I don't really care about pointless rep gain. It's just kind of a nice thing. Checkmate felt more like D1 and it's honestly great. Less spam, slightly slower gameplay but more satisfying, less supers, slightly shorter match times, more gun fights with actual guns. It's great

[@letsgog8trs793]

@@punchykarma6685 I like going for a lot of kills, or having enough time to bring back a game, or most importantly redeeming myself and picking up the pace for a poor performance in the first half... also if I get a good map I enjoy I get to spend more time on it. As a pvp main fast matches that are not rumble or a quick trials round feel terrible.

[@punchykarma6685]

@@letsgog8trs793 I think competitive matches should be the long ones and comp matches feel way better when you make a comeback or turn your performance around. Quickplay is just whatever. It's a chill playlist where you just casually have fun. Quickplay games should be quick. If it feels too long than it just sucks. You can still get a lot of kills in checkmate also. It's still easy to drop 25-30 in shorter matches and some games you'll drop a ton and some games you won't. It's quickplay.

[@letsgog8trs793]

@@punchykarma6685 I disagree the main mode is control or clash I guess and it was just rebranded as quickplay at D2 launch just for show. It was never meant for it to be a quick version of anything we already have. They have even gotten rid of the naming in game but we has a community call it quickplay still to this day giving it less respect as a playlist and when we do well in such games. It has sbmm too. As for checkmate by the time you get going the match is 70% complete.

[@Maggpyre]

i feel like i was one of the five people who actually enjoyed crucible in d2y1, and it's nice to see that people are now realising how nice it is to actually have team primary gunplay instead of antaeus knockout slideways fusions. can't really comment on d1 pvp since the last time i played it was basically "felwinters only, or die" i do genuinely wish bungie would release a halo-style, set loadout/no ability pvp game mode. I know most players like the space magic/use my own weapon playstyle, but i really wish we had a more level, skill-based experience

[@MuuToo]

10:47 Soooo back to D2 launch deathball meta

[@zacknakagawa7431]

How will they make hand cannons feel more balanced? They are top tier in this game mode especially 140s.

[@timgoodine1861]

Amazing timing on that barricade in the gameplay, right at the end of the ability spam rant.

[@DerultimativeOzzy]

I'm just happy that there exists a whole secondary balance version of the game without needing to completly change everything permanently. I enjoy it when a game has such modes where guns and rulesets behave differently. Its like eating your cake and having it too so I'm just happy that this is being made and people seem to love it.

[@jaredtherock5692]

Your thumbnails are just as entertaining as your videos are mentally stimulating Which means I like them a lot.

[@atheon-]

the blob map movement is because of control, usually people move like that when they are using longer range weapons

[@Blahtomatic]

before i even start watching this video I wanna say that the thumbnail is probably the best ive ever seen in all of destiny.

[@the48thronin97]

Personally: huge fan. As someone that usually forgets I have abilities I found it much easier to not constantly get blasted to death, and when I did use abilities it felt more intentional. Special ammo not disappearing between deaths is also huge, cause I die a lot. I also really enjoyed the players clumping up, which I feel like contributed to the slower feeling pace (for me personally) and made capturing points feel more strategic than: spam into a choke > hopefully kill everyone in there > capture > leave before the enemy team does what you just did.

[@maisharona5861]

I just wanna say that the thumbnails of late have been on point; obligatory thanks for my opinion for the day

[@atsukana1704]

I love datto’s reviews of pvp because they represent my feelings almost exactly

[@aprilraine1160]

I am shocked you didn't see more Arc Buddies. Grouped up, sentient arc-soul giving you energy back just for tagging things, primary play. A fireteam rocking Malfeasance or Ticuu's Divination. i am blown away that the sickos that normally swamp PvP weren't out finding ways to get easy wins

[@mrpainface8515]

God I wish I could find the enjoyment in this mode everyone else is. I really do. But if I have to play one more match of all 6 enemy players using bows I'll probably just call it a night. Bows and hand cannons being the only primaries worth using made this mode incredibly frustrating and being forced to buddy up with teamates to avoid getting outnumbered every engagement really felt restrictive. I'll probably try it out when that balance patch happens but otherwise, nah I'm good

[@jesusramos2796]

Top tier thumbnail meme datto

[@benarchyuk837]

Checkmate needs to be permanent. It's been the most entertaining PvP since the funny gun weekend I've had in a long time

[@thesoup4174]

Finally a step forward. Besides Trails of Osiris, PVP has been on the back burner for what feels like years. If Checkmate is the catalyst for the future of PVP, and if this PVP “strike team” isn’t bullshit, then I’m hopeful for PVP.

[@vernaltear]

I just think hand cannons are a bit (a lot) overturned in this gamemode unfortunately.

[@HiddenLily26]

This thumbnail gets me every time omg I love it

[@b-mo272]

As a non pvp player that wants to play pvp, i love that games are shorter. Means i dont have to care as much of the outcome because ill just get into another game fairly quickly. Definitely one of the highlights to the new mode personally so I really would prefer it to stay the same.

[@MrTrufax]

Datto: I find bows annoying regardless. Jez: And I took that personally.

[@LuniNightwind]

Honestly would love an inbetween of checkmate and regular ability regen for the regular playlist.

[@zornstein_-9472]

I honestly think the only takeaway from checkmate is the special ammo regen, and just have one round of special at start of match for sniper bros to have fun

[@TwinGamer64]

one major issue for me, was that icarus dash isn't being touched at all, since its an air move and not an ability, and with the added cooldowns like shoulder charge now taking forever and hunter dodge only being up a few times throughout the match, makes a 5 second dodge on the warlock seem like an extreme outlier. in this game mode icarus dash needs to be treated like an ability, and give it a 10 second cooldown atleast.

[@wumbology72]

the scout damage change is because of 180 rpm scouts were doing the perfect amount of damage to not 4 tap 10 resilience, and dead mans tale the perfect damage to not 3 tap. 10% to 9% means they will actually kill in 4 bullets instead of needing 5, and dmt will need 3 instead of 4.

[@burgscratch6301]

I will say as a guy who frequents the low tiers of PVP, I do see the "rotating death blob" fairly often. Heck I've been in them before. Feels like a strategy that just evolved in the PVP subconscious.

[@CuriousLumenwood]

Meh. If I wanted an FPS PvP experience that focused on the guns I wouldn’t play Destiny 2. If this becomes a main stay of crucible I think you’ll hear more people who actually play pvp and enjoy it start to complain because, when you strip this game of what makes it fun and different, you’ll find that Destiny 2 is not good.

[@magnificmango336]

We’ve gone from hating the weapon-focused vanilla D2 PVP to congratulating its return. Time is a flat fucking circle in the world of Destiny.

[@Louis-bs7ns]

And it’s gonna die like D2Y1

[@thepurpdoesthework]

As a pvp main Im really enjoying it. Im also a hc main (funnest primary in any fps imo) so its funny to hear the changes coming to the mode cuz Im pretty sure that y over the years pulses, autos, smgs, sidarms even scouts all have gotten small buffs over the years for normal crucible and I was feeling this for a while but hc r no longer “meta” and havent been for a while. So its funny that when this mode first came out they just took all the buffs away from the other guns, essentially, and hc stayed the same. Just has me giggling a bit.

[@zTheBigFishz]

Slight nerf to HCs incoming.

[@aa4a-a4]

Theres really too much team and peek shoting for my taste, but hopefully that improves with adjustments to handcannons

[@lucasfleming2716]

180 handcannons are insanely good and being mega slept on I don’t know how it’s possible that no one is trying them, their headshot damage was brought from 60-67

[@maxwellsaponara1140]

Hey man- I think we played a couple games and talked about Shaxx not having the hugest standards about each games and ggs dude! Checkmate feels great!

[@tacoboy2218]

I love the modifier aside from handcannons being the only really viable option

[@Snixpix-]

The return of the kill ball lol. When you remove people just being able yeet a million grenades or equip jotunn or some wave frame, people are more likely to stick together. although, this sounds like it would make graviton lance and sunshot shine a bit more.

[@welds8424]

What a god tier thumbnail.

[@douglasteixeira1032]

My gripes with checkmate are that heavy spawns a bit too quickly imo, and that everything except for Mythoclast and hand cannons don’t feel good.. I wish we can keep all the primary TTK’s the same but still restrict the special/heavy ammo economy.. I’ve been so used to using my Disparity and adept Forgiveness combo (used this to go solo flawless the only 2 times I’ve ever done it) and that combo feels so weak. But my igneous hammer feels amazing

[@DEADtoRISE08]

We came full circle from hating D2Y1 PvP to going to back to loving it

[@CapKong]

Checkmate is extremely refreshing compared to the current sandbox, and honestly i had a blast running strand titan and Khepri's Horn, hell i even tried Behemoth with a couple of buddies and we had so much fun, i really hope the checkmate modifier finds its way into comp and/or trials at some point but lets enjoy it for now

[@rogueshadow_3268]

higher ttk means more benefit to team shooting which leads to grouping. though i wouldn't have expected the relatively small health change to lead to that much grouping. i feel like the handcannon issue could be resolved by increasing health a little more so that it does take an extra shot while other weapons would also take more shots. but that may then lead to another archetype of weapon dominating due to how it's ttk works out, and it would lead to even more deathballing teams as team shots would become even more important

[@robertpalmer8080]

Lower ttk also means even more benefit to team shooting though. It's a lose-lose situation and there's not alot that can be done about it. Special and abilities help counter that but that goes the other way as well. People have been hand holding since D1, people just choose to forget that and think D2 Y1 was the sole cause of it. D2 launch was far worse 100%, but that was coming off of the chaos of D1 where special spiralled so far out of control that it was nerfed to the point it was practically non existent in an attempt to rein it in.

[@josiah4294]

I feel like just the ability tuning on the cooldowns is undoubtedly the reason why I enjoy it so much. Also panduh said it best if it aint a hand cannon meta it aint fun this playlist just shows that based on the response from the community.

[@natemorrow4388]

Igneous hammer is the reason why this mode mode is a little annoying.

[@matthewthepirate44]

Abilities counter the handholding phenomenon. I do wonder if perhaps increasing melee/grenade DAMAGE inside of checkmate while keeping the COOLDOWN slowed down as it currently is might be a good way to stop deathballing. If you're scared to duel, oops! Grenade wiped your team.

[@progenitor_amborella]

Oh a new datto vid? I bet there’s a blog post about checkmate balancing today. Edit: this is the optimal play datto xd

[@Burgo361]

I do really like checkmate though it does feel a little slow, but it's nice to have a bit of a change

[@Acguy55]

As a historic PVP hater, I found this version the most enjoyable iteration so kudos to Bungo. Hope they develop it further.

[@emubilly999]

We’ve come full circle

[@ThisIsEssKah]

I think the sandbox is in a relatively good place atm. Payed one IB reset in two sittings and had fun.

[@shark_2283]

the special change is something i have said for years. i always say just go back to d so at least there is points in a match were nobody has special. but honestly a change like this would be better. and the focus on primary gun fights feel so mutch better not a match of whos special is gonna win the fight in this scenario.

[@PG-tm9pe]

looking forward to the mode when I have more time to actually play the game. would be interesting to see what an iron banner variant could be if possible, but also maybe not since A) do they occupy the same gamemode modified slot? and b) what happens for the hunt. cap all zones and everyone gets special ammo?

[@Ulto]

Would be interesting to see if Comp/Trials adopts a more weapon focused and gun play engagement designed mode and leaving the regular crucible in the ability filled state with rotating mayhem to give us sort of 3 states of the game. Some discussion to be had there knowing there is skill in ability use and tactical grenade placements etc that guns only isn't exactly a Destiny calling card, but it would be something to sate my curiosity.

[@dragonridernate2770]

I’m surprised you are able to enjoy Destiny at all with all the dam server issues, good on you Datto.

[@ownagemester]

Im personally still scarred from how dreadfully slow the crucible was back in D2 launch. I love the chaos of modern crucible to an extent, but im glad people who don't have a pvp gamemode that they can have fun playing.

[@lukelaws3545]

It’s funny he put this out and right after bungie drops patches for it

[@gabeburgos2953]

I think the 1% change to scout damage was to make three taps more consistent. DMT wasn’t getting three taps like it usually did, as well as Jade rabbit

[@mightbedelta]

holy shit datto likes checkmate, pvp is back gamers

[@istalkkP]

I think to enforce spreading out and more map movement, they should make special ammo a timed map drop at two locations every 120-180 seconds. Breaks up teams and gives a benefit to those who claim and punishes passive, campy gameplay. So, y’know, Halo lol

[@tony1990]

People hated that in D1

[@istalkkP]

@@tony1990 Yeah, I know. I actually always really liked it. But you move waaaaay faster in D2 so I think people would get over it tbh

[@antwann_loser]

I think if abilities hit harder with the same regeneration rate in this mode it would be pretty reminiscent of d1 gameplay. Just trading ability regeneration for a bit extra movement speed from then, essentially.

[@andrewlozano3468]

I just find it similar to how D2 launched and it was super team based shooting which was frustrating. I think the game mode is ok.

[@creepjack01]

If we move away from supers completely. And make grenades/melees/abilities one use per spawn, it'll be perfect. All that's left on my wishlist are those and pre-made loadouts instead of custom weapons.

[@thedankpapyrus4779]

In my opinion checkmate is a pretty good game modifier since it’s nice to go from regular pvp where I’m getting attacked by crayon munching apes all the time to a more relaxed version where I can use my primary and not get knocked on my ass for trying to use a gun that doesn’t insta kill

[@zetamangads]

Mayhem should be the one allows you to use abilities spam while checkmate should be the one focus on gunplay

[@bofa722]

Yes that is how both gamemodes work. Astute observation

[@maxmillian9945]

“Power ammo is still around though” I felt the same way fam 😞.

[@Koshmar-13]

I'm tellin you, this modifier is going to feel sooo much better in lower player count game modes. I hope they make a 4v4 or 3v3 mode with this modifier.

[@hotdogwater8122]

When is the next Datto Does Dinner?

[@dimitron8438]

I will have to check it out! Thanks

[@seantwitchell8989]

What's wild is this feels a lot like the D2 launch sandbox.

[@GloverGaming3]

I think the blob strategy stems from vanilla D2 sandbox, and I'm sorry to say that I saw this coming. Longer ttk's means that team shooting is the meta again, and most weapons that counter that play style are special weapons, so there's not a lot of risk to running together anymore

[@kylefries4068]

I am in the same boat as you, where gun play is very important to me. Don't get me wrong, I like abilities as well, but a good gunfight and watching my angles and positioning are nice! I just hope they don't ruin a good thing :)

[@Sanguinius]

As someone who rocks a glaive unironically in crucible I see this as an absolute win!!! No special? That's fine! I can still use it as a meele weapon and when I do get ammo not much changes aside from the fact thst I can shoot people now.

[@Teastott]

The only issue for this mode(which is kinda a make or break for me) is the handholding and passiveness. It feels like year one again and I thought it was boring then and boring now. Everything else is really nice and enjoyable

[@nda123full]

I did really like it, my only bad moment was a guffy hunter running around with frostEE5

[@robertpalmer8080]

I'm not surprised to hear that team shooting is much more common in a game mode with less special/ability spam. Team shooting is already annoying enough in regular PvP cause sbmm makes every game feel like 6v6 comp, but taking away the thing that allows for easier kills is gonna make people just play the way that gives them the higher survival rate and lessened ttk.

[@LunarNights_]

Checkmate is nice because it’s not just a new objective with the same sandbox, or some wacky party mode, it legitimately feels like it could be a permanent game mode and I’m all for it.

[@makiza1]

It is a wacky party mode though.

[@LunarNights_]

@@makiza1 ye but it’s not something like rift or team scorched. It’s just the same game with across the board balance tunings for a specific focus on weapon play, and it (at least for me) feels like it could be a permanent game mode like rumble. It feels fresh, but familiar. Like it’s the same game, but with a twist that changes how the game is played.

[@cameronsalmon1314]

They say that their reducing the bonus damage for Handcanons but I hope doesn’t apply for 180s because they already need 4 headshots in the new mode and if you have some empowerment it doesn’t take it down to three crits like the normal sandbox but three crits and one body.

[@Blueroyal3]

I would be interested in a version where they revert health back to normal thus negating the need for adjusted weapon damage, but keep the special and cooldown economy. Then also nerf the ability damage for the „offset“ in health. So basically normal primary ttk, with nerfed ability’s. Maybe this sucks, but its worth a try imo.

[@7.65x21mm]

i enjoy the increased health.makes you take gunfights more cautiously and smart

[@Infinity_1047]

really well made video

[@resentfusion5634]

Whats funny is the heavy ammo change is like the same thing they did to gambit. Idk why they think we need more heavy if we wanted less special. And yeah the prob with slower pace fights is players start deathballing like D2 Y1(it isnt as bad but idk what you do to prevent it). Also, gotta love Datto being a pve goat yet clearly listing all the pvp painpoints that have been plaguing the mode.

[@michaelgow7461]

I like the mode but I want a little more special ammo, for a mode focused on gunplay, it sucks to not be able to use half your guns for most of the match and it makes the match feel uneventful as I am using the same primary the entire time.