I Posted Shorts For 30 Days. Here's What Happened...

After refusing to engage with KZbin Shorts for the better part of a year, I finally gave in and decided to do an experiment and post a short every day in September. Here's how that went.

[@srfnsurfer]

My issue with shorts is the show random things. I just want to watch the people I follow. 1 out 30 will be someone I follow. And the rest have nothing to do with my interests

[@dougfoust117]

Shorts has a "subscription " channel, just like the main feed. I don't use it, because it's a string of 20 shorts from one channel, then 20 from another, then 20 from another. But it does filter for only your subs.

[@afs0073]

You're absolutely right and that's part of the reason shorts are pushed for 'discovery'... they are hoping you'll like one of those random videos and start following that channel. I find it annoying more often than not. Their new algorithm is heavy-handed in this way for sure.

[@xyzpdq1122]

Facebook shorts are even worse. It is like 1/3 people to which I subscribe, 1/3 random crap, and 1/3 too-clever mommy bloggers.

[@chrstfer2452]

Gotta use it more and interact more (like/dislike/dont recommend channel) to tune your suggestions.

[@ChristianKurzke]

I hate that KZbin is wasting screen real estate to show me stupid "shorts". I'm here at KZbin for long form videos.

[@andrewparsons1862]

I just wanted to say you’re one of the only KZbin creators that I immediately click on without reading the title. I wanted to thank you for being you and sharing your interests with us. I and many people appreciate you.

[@Odin31b]

Same

[@Jakilla69]

Same, don’t care the title, just trust that if joe is talking about it then it must be interesting. Don’t have that level of trust in any other channel

[@mslindqu]

same

[@Johnathonaaron]

I'm going to try to say this as un-creepily as possible but the same here. I don' t even like some of the content but watch everything cuz I just like hearing Joe's voice and experiencing his "Ironic awkwardness".

[@bengeminder]

Fkn oath

[@scisher3294]

As a self described “Monday morning arm chair analyst,” I found this highly fascinating. Side note, I also hate tik tok and HAAAATE the push KZbin is making towards these shorts… Good luck Joe. Just know, If you make them, I will be watching them.

[@mrcryptozoic817]

I've shut them off. I find myself watching a bunch of crap that is unnecessary. And I hate vertical format for horizontal subjects. I'm reminded of a quote where someone asks if there's progress and the answer is "Well, there was change".

[@bradyanselmi]

I understand KZbin trying to compete with TikTok but I’d rather watch “long format” stuff on YT. If I want to mindlessly scroll through short stuff to soothe my ADHD I’ll go to TT.

[@lokimidknight7319]

I don't hate the concept of shorts, the implementation is terrible. IMO Instead of "shorts" they should section content by format vertical vs horizontal. And make separate format feeds in subscriptions like they do on home page.

[@georue98]

There's a lot of animal content that works really well, like the animal cracker.

[@RyanBlackhawke]

Holy shit! That's a gigantic drop. I'd be worried about it too. Businesses need to make money to survive. I've enjoyed the shorts just because I can't stand TikTok. I was looking forward to this experiment (yeah, I actually read the community post). I knew you'd be thorough. I think shorts are fun for when I can't process longer content but there's no replacing longer content for educational creators. One thing I noticed in a Shorts session is I'd get about half a dozen creators being the only ones I'd see. It'd be more helpful for the algorithm to give us more creators in our Shorts sessions.

[@oldyoldenough7327]

Joe, you hit the nail on the head. I watch your videos religiously, but when the shorts started cropping up, I tried the first or second and realized that they were merely clips from longer videos and started to mentally filter them out when scrolling through my subscriptions feed. Since so many other channels are trying shorts, this particular browsing pattern has become second nature. It would be great if KZbin eventually added the ability to segment in the subscriptions feed based on content type. Right now, it's a poor user experience to shoe horn everything in there. Also, regarding engagement, the other problem might be that the clips themselves are a lot less compelling when viewed outside of the larger video, which could be problematic in terms of discovery for the random KZbin user. Last thought: I think something like your intro sketches would make AWESOME shorts.

[@Leophred]

+

[@mellie4174]

I had the exact same thought for the intro clips being shorts!

[@gentleben4770]

Just to add to this point. I always feel that a clip from a longer video as a short will show the punchline or major point of the video. It puts me off watching the main vid if I have seen a short from it as I assume (rightly or wrongly) that the short represents the whole vid

[@dalehorton7748]

KZbin has wanted to kill the subscriptions page for a long time, they want you using the homepage, where the algorithm rules. Notice they're nicely segmented out there.

[@pakde8002]

Yeah I don't think it's a good test if you're only recycling old content. Regular viewers are going to catch on quickly and just scroll through.

[@dylanbaron__]

I’m glad you’ve done this, most KZbinrs wouldn’t be so open with this sort of thing, and it helps smaller creators see what’s happening up higher on the tree

[@cookingforsingles]

Totally agree! I need to rewatch the video to see what reports he was pulling and all the details! I am being completely serious when I say I am obsessed with my analytics for my tiny little channel and love pulling and analyzing reports! 🙃

[@jewelwing]

+1000

[@yrebrac]

They definitely changed the algorithm early in the year. It's very noticably to me whever YT does major change to the algo just by looking at my feed and search results. But in this case it very clearly started prioritising short-termism. As in, pumping (nay, spamming) a topic or creator I may have just been interested in for just a few days, but totally forget about topics I have been following for YEARS. I suspect this puts creators like you, that do not publish every day but more like once or twice weekly, at a disadvantage. I did see your shorts though, and for the record didn't mind them. I still think you are one of the best channels here, and possibly THE most watchable creator for me. Always interesting and entertaining, sometimes downright hilarious, and never annoying.

[@LovelyRuthie]

I'm a long-time subscriber of yours - and I managed to completely miss every single one of your short videos :D Not on purpose, either. My viewing habits are mainly my watching on desktop & via the KZbin front page - their suggestions, rather than my subscription feed. KZbin decided I did not need to see your shorts ;) I really enjoyed this video though & appreciate you sharing the experiment with us. You have more of an idea as to what is working & what is not - shorts might be shorter & so in theory less work than a long-form video, but the approach to creating them is very different. It's the difference between making a documentary & making an advertisement. May the algorithms ever be in your favour!

[@Whataboutit]

Thanks for this, Joe! What I dislike the most about all this, and I'm in the same boat as you are, is that KZbin doesn't tell us about all this. We both work on KZbin and want to do a good job. It's like a boss wanting you to work differently and not giving you a clue about precisely what to do.

[@victoriaeads6126]

I don't produce content, and KZbin's caginess about the algorithm specs annoys ME. I can't imagine how much it sucks for creators!

[@D_Rogers]

@@victoriaeads6126 I hate the way the youtube search defaults back to the ''Relevance' setting if I change the slightest thing! 'Relevance' is a youtube code word for ''ad riddled mainstream junk' :D The only way I can find obscure channels is by constantly forcing the search to refocus on the newest uploads only..

[@bzuidgeest]

@@victoriaeads6126 with any luck the EU is going to force companies like this to give up a lot more detail about what their algorithm does. Here to hoping we might gain better understanding in the future.

[@paulhaynes8045]

PS - the most encouraging thing about all this is that you share it with us. TMI is an odd channel by 'normal' YT standards, but is one of the things that makes you different as a KZbinr - you care. This is not just a business for you. That isn't necessarily the best way to run a business, but thank God that you do run it that way! It gives us hope.

[@TheMajesticSeaPancake]

My biggest problem from the creator side is I can't choose to mark a video as a short. So because it forces some videos to be a short, if a video is selected to be one, it must be in that hard to view, small vertical window. KZbin forces me to display something I spent hours editing to be displayed wrong and tiny and I can't do anything about it. You can get it to display as a normal video if you navigate to it through a playlist, but of course that's not how it gets shown unless it's me doing that intentionally, no one other than me is going to go out of their way to do that. Plus can't scrub through/back up.

[@Fairyfink]

Fascinated by the outcome of this experiment as a non-short-content-fan. I really appreciated your honesty in laying out the reality of being a KZbinr.

[@trentostgaard]

Covid itself was a huge driver for extra interaction, from streamers to youtubers to games in general. Now that the covid scenario is largely over the interaction is decreasing. Among that and general trends you will during your growth begin to capture the majority of your audience, once you capture most of it your growth will plateau. What I am trying to say is you aren't necessarily doing anything wrong and the graphs you show are not so unordinary. You shouldn't look to change your strategies, rather expand on them to gain more audience.

[@petraw9792]

That's what I thought. The pandemic drove people to YT. Now that things are slowly normalising people don't spend that much time on YT any more. And his audience already found him. Trying to appeal to a different audience might be risky when you found your niche.

[@mellie4174]

Couldn't agree more! It's a pandemic thing and now everyone isn't staying home all day doing nothing but watching KZbin

[@yondertwitch]

doing shorts *in addition to his regularly scheduled content* is, by definition, "expand[ing] on them to gain more audience." kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKC5dp2khdeYbsU

[@IrocZIV]

While the pandemic surely made a big difference, plateauing shouldn't be an issue at his size (Think how many millions of of people are watching KZbin). Discovery and individuals time are the main issues. KZbin is flooded with content creators, so it has to decide what to serve, and some people will see much different selections in their feed.

[@StanleyOrchard]

Yeah I work with KZbin creators for a living and I am seeing this exact trend. The pandemic caused a lot of people to watch a lot of KZbin in 2021, and when everyone started to go back to school/work etc it cut the amount of watch time down across the platform. Now, that having been said there is a push from KZbin towards Shorts content... they are going all in on this and they did recently make adjustments to their SDS (Search and Discovery Systems) to favor channel discovery via Shorts. It stands to reason that a large portion of platform viewership began trending towards Shorts when they started out in January. Combine these two factors and yeah, this loss of growth makes sense. Sucks... we are ALL dealing with it and man I feel as icky about Shorts as the next guy. Just hoping things begin to balance back out again in 2023. Hey Joe, I don't know if you're going to read this or not but if you do man I REALLY appreciate your insight. I have a lot of respect for your professionalism and your educated POV on this stuff. So many creators have these crazy conspiracy theories about KZbin... even the 5-10 MM size channels. It's nice hearing these introspective, KZbin conversations from someone who is a little more level-headed. I was front-raw guy at VMW a couple years ago and if I can ever catch another presentation of yours in the future I will be right up front all over again! Love your work!

[@frankdrake902]

OMG YESSSSS!!!! Thank you Joe. I love the new plan. Daily shorts of repeat content for existing subscribers was rough. Using original shorts to promote long form videos by including honorable mentions, side thoughts, and behind-the-scenes related to those videos will add value for both new and old subs. Hank Greens shorts are a good example of this too.

[@tara5742]

I was just going to say this. I actually re-subd to Hank *because* of his shorts. And I don’t use tiktok or even seek out shorts.

[@pype720]

Yeah - now that you mention it, I encouraged this experiment except that I didn't watch the shorts because I already watch every single video. Since it was repeated content for me, I didn't watch it. Now I wish I did.

[@ianmatthews1724]

I don't like shorts in an educational format, I don't see the point but if it's part and parcel then I think this would be the best way to go about it.

[@Name-ps9fx]

And don't forget the Tangent Cam™!

[@xWood4000]

Yeah I did the same, I wonder if YT didn't recommend it to potential subscribers because it had terrible watch time among sunscribers. So it only recommended the shorts to people who wouldn't subscribe anyway and just see some random shorts

[@spclifford74]

A couple of thoughts on this though. Firstly, I'm sure you're thought of this, but 2020/2021 a lot of people were locked down, so may have been watching more KZbin, which might be this year, as everryone has got fed up with being stuck inside, they've just naturally moved away to do other things? Also, I think a 'Good Short' is generally a quick video that's in response to something happening in the world - the ones that Legal Eagle does where he'll publish a short in response to some court case that's developing is a good example of this (not sure how you could do this for your channel though - maybe a recent example would be a short about Nasa chucking stuff at an asteroid to see if it'll move? Or when there's a big environmental or geological event (earthquake, volcano, forest fire?). Also, on a related note, I watch your videos on youtube, but I also subscribe to Nebula. Which platform gives you more 'bang for my buck' from me watching your videos. Obviously KZbin is generally much bigger than Nebula so I suspect most of your income is from there, but on an individual basis, if I watch a video on KZbin or Nebula, which platform would give you more from my specific viewership for watching the same video? (if you get more from Nebula, I'll make more of an effort to watch yours, and all the other creators that are on both platforms over there).

[@RoadkillbunnyUK]

I have had the same thoughts about nebula, would really love to know how much views count for regarding payment split. I’m 100% behind the shorts must be something new. I’m not a fan of them on the whole (I also do not have tic tok, I leave that to my teenagers 😂) but if they are a cut out of material I have already watched I won’t view them again at all, new content though I will absolutely watch even though I prefer content around 10 minutes plus. *edited because I can never get it right first time!*

[@shawnahansen8597]

Good point, we sometimes watch on KZbin and sometimes on Nebula. So it would be interesting to know which social media platform rewards the creator more. But I was thinking the same thing about the lockdown and return to the office. I have been working at home for 10 years and sometimes to have background ambiance, I will play youtube videos or podcasts on spotify and I usually play Joe Scott, the Why Files or That Chapter (um this seems strange but I find these 3 creators have voices that are comforting or soothing playing in the background - OK maybe not hecklefish). So I also wonder if Spotify pays more or the same as KZbin. So it's possible that people working at home were more likely to take breaks and watch a video but it's not as common to watch a video if you are working in the office (even if you are on a break). So very relevant point that this could have some affect on the numbers.

[@douglaskillingtree3050]

Very interesting! I'm not a shorts person, I prefer longer form content like your videos and podcast, so I didn't watch more than one or two of your shorts. Which seems like an easy way to avoid them without unsubcribing and losing out on all the other great stuff you make. I feel for you, having to navigate the endlessly evolving algorithm without much guidance from KZbin, if at all. As a marketing person, I know how frustrating it can be to constantly be grasping at the Google straws to see what works and what doesn't. Bravo to you for trying something and reporting your findings. Haven't seen anyone else on here do this before, so that in of itself is pretty cool. You're resourceful. Even in the worst case scenario, I don't think you'll ever end up back in an office.

[@sakinapdf]

ive been binge watching your videos over the past year and I'll be very honest, I did not watch even one of your shorts because I read your post in the community tab. I'm all for you growing your channel because you deserve a lot more subscribers but then seeing that they didn't even make a difference just angers me. KZbin's algorithm is going haywire at the moment, much like instagram and any other social media platform trying so hard to be TikTok. I just hope this mess is sorted out soon and your channel grows exponentially. good luck Joe! im rooting for you. all the best :)

[@bdunn2435]

Me neither. I avoid the shorts

[@AfricanLionBat]

I love shorts. Being mad about it is so stupid.

[@guitboxgeek]

KZbin is a poorly mismanaged company that could do so much more if they stopped chasing the tech hotness of the minute, and focused on what they do best. Same goes for the ad-pocalypse; wasn't necessary and could have turned out much differently. "Shorts" are not set up like the other places that do them, yet youtube tells all the creators to make more. Moronic, really.

[@Hallo1248574]

Having the attention span of Bart Simpson seems to be the bases for liking shorts.

[@Kimberly_Sparkles]

Me too! I don't want shorts. They give way to things like Pink Sauce because they aren't long enough to examine things in a real way.

[@CJG1419]

I don’t watch many shorts, they don’t give me the information I want.

[@jewelwing]

Thanks so much for going to the trouble to post all this Joe :) As a baby youtuber, I'm feeling my way along and data like this is HUGELY helpful :) Hope your day is a good one!

[@lyndsayms]

This is really interesting, thank you for sharing about it! I teach online and my enrollments have dropped significantly these past few months, & it sucks because that’s how I make money. I also don’t care for TikTok, you saying shorts being crappy TikTok resonated with me 😂😅 I feel like it just shows how short attention spans have become. I love your regular videos - you rock, Joe!

[@clairestar3611]

I subscribed to your channel years ago when you were regularly posting space/quantum/ general mind blowing content. Your channel is one of the few where I can understand and follow the concepts you explain in my own brain which is an extremely rad feeling. I really deeply appreciate your work and the way you make difficult concepts accessible to people. My issue with shorts is they aren’t capable of being substantial or explain things thoroughly which is the style of videos I like. Also Joe can you please please please bring more space content. The jwst picture video was absolutely amazing and I would love to see more on things like the laniakea supercluster or the great attractor. Or even going through more jwst data

[@joris-rietveld]

Hey you should follow Anton Petrov and Fraser Cain if you love space videos (as I do) they are way more accurate about the science. And if you have trouble understanding something fraser cain is always available to ask questions. I am a space nerd and programmer and sometimes watch this channel but he has some trouble researching the content he talks about. Anton is a bit more dry to consume but try his videos I love his content for about 7 years. Not that I don't like this channel but I think that if your looking for space content, look there! Have a good one and greetings from the netherlands.

[@MustardChannel]

Super helpful. Thank you!

[@woomba7]

Certainly interesting to see Mustard found this :)

[@terrywages908]

I think the shorts work ok as a teaser before the full video drops. Might be worth it to drum up some excitement a day or so before it if works in the editing process Also a few original shorts sprinkled in on subjects that don’t require a longer time to explain. Seems to be the way that the ‘It’s Not What You Think’ channel works which is what led me to your channel

[@floundericiouswa5694]

Thanks for the breakdown and thanks for taking the time to do a deliberate study on this

[@michellwaterman3160]

I’ve noticed a lot of the creators I follow have been making shorts recently. The ones I take the time to watch are completely different from their usual channel content. A true crime creator I’ve followed for years posts shorts with her family. It’s nice to get to know her a bit better away from the heavy stuff she talks about on her channel. Another creator I follow, a comedian, began posting shorts of her sing. I had NO IDEA she could sing! She’s amazing! You are a scientist/comedian and I watch your channel for the interesting scientific deep dives full of puns and dad jokes. I don’t know much about you outside of the funny science content. I’ve enjoyed getting to know my other content creators better through their shorts. Just throwing that out there. Love your content Joe! Shorts or not, I’m still going to watch your content.

[@pvic6959]

funny enough, i dont see them being shoved at me. i dont even remember if i saw any of joes shorts last month lol

[@aFiliandsomejoe]

I think "shorts" take away from the "McRib Effect". The McRib is not really that great of a sandwich, but since McDonalds holds it back and releases it occasionally, it builds interest. A once or twice a week episode leaves viewers anticipating the next show, but Shorts take away from that and make your videos pedestrian. It becomes, "Oh, just another video from Joe." instead of "Oh! Another video from Joe!" My 2 cents worth on it.

[@RIPdeadman70]

Lol, Mcrib effect!

[@joespears9059]

I enjoy your longer form videos (20 to 35 minutes) because you explore a subject and I feel like I've gotten a decent introduction to the subject explored. The shorts are not my thing I think you can't get much done which leaves a lot to be desired by the nature of a short. Love your stuff Joe keep doing what you do.

[@feebieloo]

This is so hard Joe, I really hope things start looking up for you. I love your content and won't unsubscribe ever, and will continue supporting on Patreon. This whole situation really sucks and it's really unfair to you and other content creators. I hope this new plan works better!!

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks for sharing this, Joe. Extremely helpful.

[@Yozhura]

I agree that the video is amazing. Life is hard. You never know anything is true. That is why we're trying new things. Life is hard, yet we must keep on struggling until our brain finally sometime die.

[@chrisspamtest]

Another option is to do what this guy does, market on other people's channel.

[@rhone2458]

Hey Matt, posted my very first KZbin comment to Joe’s video here. You are also one of the handful of folks I watch regularly. Not surprised to see you here. Keep up the good work!

[@5455jm]

............ and I follow you too Matt; you educate and challenge me the same way Joe does.

[@chrisspamtest]

@@hardwarenutz Is it possible your time is over? This is the new generation?

[@megan9825]

Thanks for the info! Great experiment and while I didn’t watch all the shorts I did watch some that happened to be from vids that were already some of my favorites.

[@tyrellarson]

Hey Joe. Thanks very much for the candid tellings of your experiment. I'm a long time viewer of your channel and rank it amoung my top choices for youtube content.I too loath shorts and refuse to engage in tiktok. Unfortunately the evolution of the internet sometimes takes a bad turn but if it means keeping you making content, so be it. I trust your integrity of what you put out. Keep up the good work and thanks for the many years of work you've put into your channel. Hope to have many years more.

[@no-bitches]

Joe you're one of my favorite youtube creators, and I love what you do. Keep your head up, and I know low performance can be discouraging or a bummer, but your videos are really awesome and really do make my week. Shorts are goofy, I agree, but do what you have to, how you feel you have to.

[@DarkHorseRowing]

Really engaging breakdown here (watching as another creator) and it’s funny, I would be about to write a question then :30s later you’d answer it.

[@jjanko99]

Joe, your regular videos are excellent for information and entertainment. What you add that other channels like SciShow don’t is your personal and human response to the topics you cover. Often with joking or flip comments, but far more impactful when you express your natural emotional reactions to things. A few years ago you had some personal struggles that you shared with us and that made you so much more relatable and engaging because we all have struggles but many don’t have the courage to talk about them. I would welcome shorts related to your regular content that was you giving your personal feelings and philosophies on the issues that are brought up. This could also serve as a hook for someone to go watch the regular content to get more of the story. It’s your genuine personality that keeps me and my family engaged with you and your Chanel. Keep up the great work and thanks for all the content you’ve curated for us!

[@dawnwarren650]

Love your videos, perfect combination of curiosity and humor, keep at it!!!

[@rachelmiller4949]

I would look forward to a weekly short like Tangent Cam Tuesday taken from your longer videos. The more random and harder to tell which parent video it’s from the better! And I also like shorts with a BTS feel (showing your desk set up or your dogs or filming of a clone scene etc) rather than an exact snippet of a longer video. Keep experimenting! You’ll get it 🎉

[@78veronlibra]

Yes a behind the scenes or tangent short would be awesome

[@plank629]

Just wanted to let you know about the “spamming” issue. The subscription and home page feeds are separated, so if people view shorts in their sub feed, they will be bombarded with your content if their subscriptions generally don’t have shorts. Also love the content, please don’t get discouraged by the shitty KZbin situation atm, usually the people who weather these “storms” end up doing well.

[@yondertwitch]

He acknowledges the separation at kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKC5dp2khdeYbsU And how is one-a-day being "bombarded"? Sincere question, since text-only communication is devoid of nuance and cues. I legitimately don't understand why you're saying that.

[@incredimazing]

@@yondertwitch It depends on the channels a person is subscribed to, but for me many of them post videos once or twice a week, with only a couple that do daily videos. If you're used to weekly videos, you basically get a list of 2 to 5 or more shorts between every long video. And if you're not interested in shorts, it feels like spam, even if it's only over the course of a week or so. This is especially "spam-like" if multiple channels you've subscribed to are doing the same thing at the same time.

[@plank629]

@@yondertwitch If you aren’t subscribed to many channels that post shorts, the “bombarded” aspect is that his videos will pop up in the subscription feed for shorts constantly. More clearly, if he is the only channel that posts shorts in your sub feed, then the post for Sept 1st will always play after the post from Sept 2nd, which will always play after the short from Sept 3rd and so on. So in connection with the whole “I don’t like shorts” sentiment of some viewers, those viewers will see toms stuff in their subscribed shorts a lot simply because nobody else they view posts shorts. For some, that means that their feed will have 30 shorts from Tom in a row, leading to the feeling of “bombardment” even if the content is once a day. In all transparency, the feeds for mobile vs desktop are also different, so it would be interesting to see if the analytics are different based on primary viewing device, since shorts feel clunky on desktop but slightly better on mobile. Also, thank you for a very nice way of asking for clarity, I too am frustrated by lack of nuance that plagued KZbin comments

[@yondertwitch]

@@plank629 I appreciate the reply but still disagree. "one video a day" being the key. The incredibly abbreviated version of my thoughts is: "Why is it difficult to ignore?" "For some, that means that their feed will have 30 shorts from Tom in a row, leading to the feeling of “bombardment” even if the content is once a day." Do you mean in the "here are the shorts from your subs" section? The section that is super easy to put 2.5 seconds of effort into going past? Cuz... that's just hating on shorts in general, not Joe specifically. And that's just dumb. Unless I'm missing your intended meaning. I see two versions of YT subscription feeds based on the platform. -Shorts are mixed in w/ videos -Shorts are 100% separated from videos If they're separated... just grow a tiny ounce of patience and ignore them. If you legitimately get triggered by them... you've got issues. If they're mixed in... Sub feeds are ENTIRELY chronological based. If you're being bombarded with nothing but shorts from someone who post shorts once a day... you have a basically empty subscription feed and seemingly check it once a week. I am pretty sure I'm missing something here. Yes, I'd LOVE the option to have Shorts separated in my Subs feed. But it takes approximately NO effort to ignore one Short a day. Full disclosure... I'm doing my best to not whip out "grow the fuck up" to these people, I'm trying to understand, and I appreciate you explaining in a proper, grown-up manner

[@plank629]

@@yondertwitch I definitely agree that people who are complaining are overreacting, just trying to find the root of it other than the just “I hate shorts” crowd. I think you make a really good point here in regards to the separated shorts vs mixed feed. I personally have no preference either way, i think it’s a problem that KZbin supports both forms dependent on what device you are using, seems weird and not cohesive across viewing experience. As far as the separated feed issue, anytime that subsection shows up it’s gonna have multiple columns of his videos if you don’t subscribe to other shorts content makers, so I understand the annoying aspect insofar as it’s the equivalent of seeing one video (vertical spacing wise) that you don’t want in your sub feed. For me, and it sounds like for you too, this isn’t a big deal and shouldn’t be, however the vocal minority that he is having to deal with apparently do care, and if that’s impacting his bottom line and growth then maybe it’s worth taking into account. Really happy this has been a good respectful convo btw

[@oliviawarren9608]

I actually quite appreciated your shorts experiment. I’ve been subscribed for a while now, but your videos haven’t been on my feed for quite some time. So when I first came across your shorts, I was reminded of a creator whose work I really enjoyed, but I just haven’t seen in a while, so it’s been really nice to catch up on your full length videos during long night shifts.

[@QueenOfShovels]

I adore your content....I was actually worried that you were conforming to the "trend" of stuffs! So happy to see the video🤗 I'm an eye nerd (I work in ophthalmology) who adore documentaries and what my grandfather used to call "nickle knowledge", referring to what we call today as "fun facts". Please don't stop posting what YOU want, those of us who appreciate you and your content will be loyal and supportive!👏♥️ Thank you!

[@hitarophoenix]

The only thing most people seem to hate about shorts ( myself included ) is the fact that they all go in the same subscription feed as everything else. If they had shorts in a separate sub feed it would be perfect imo

[@wasabi42]

my biggest issue with shorts has definitely been the cluttering of the subscriptions page. i don’t think i would find myself unsubscribing from someone due to shorts, but i have noticed it makes it much harder to quickly access new content from my subscriptions.

[@sircharlesmormont9300]

I'm glad someone else did this experiment. I help with my workplace's YT account and I, too, have been resisting the idea of shorts. Thanks for posting all of this info.

[@kiminnehalem8669]

It's too bad those of us who want longer, more in-depth content, and those who create it, have to suffer at the expense of an algorithm!!! CURSES!!!! Thank you so much for sharing the process and working though it with us!!!! You're the best!!

[@78veronlibra]

Long form is nebula videos

[@tigershirew7409]

Yes, I can say that for myself, when I saw the shorts that were part of the full videos I had already seen, I did NOT watch them. I understand what you were doing - but for a subscriber, I would typically ignore stuff I have already seen. Now that you have posted this explainer video, I would try to watch just to help your channel but new stuff will always get my attention better than rehashed stuff. :)

[@johnyoung9780]

Hi Joe, I watched the shorts but I’m glad you put the link to the full video so I could watch the whole thing.

[@Frogdealer]

I watch and enjoy every video you post. From now on I try to watch them twice;) But thanks to the shorts and this video about shorts, I finally subscibed to this channel!

[@aubreysanders1845]

Your openness with this is much appreciated. It must be difficult adjusting to such a big change in KZbin’s format. Keep up the good work and keep communicating. I’m looking forward to many more years of quality content. I hope it remains your passion and doesn’t become a curse.

[@enduringbird]

I didn't watch the shorts because I've already watched all of your videos for at least the last 5 years. I don't need to rewatch it in clip format. But if you stopped making videos I would be sad. Your channel is my favorite.

[@michellewebster3611]

WOW! Clearly something huge changed and I have heard from other channels you are not the only one. KZbin changed something big. I really hope it gets figured out. So sorry your going through this

[@Missmori]

I think thats a great conclusion that you came to. I know there's probably a ton of information that gets researched for your main videos, i think it would be cool to see shorts as "Things that got cut from the main Video." also bloopers from the skits would be hilarious. and also more origional skits on sciency/nerdy topics. those are my ideas. I love your videos and its been great. your shorts have actually been a way for me to show some of my coworkers cool stuff, and i think one ofthem is also now a subscriber.

[@Mr2Reviews]

I have no interest in shorts. I pay for KZbin Premium because it's my sole source for media for INFORMATION, to learn things. And I don't get that from shorts. Love you Joe. TO KZbin: Give us the option to filter out shorts! I almost ONLY USE my notifications feed. And I play my videos in chronological order on my notifications feed so an autoplay notifications function would be awesome and appreciated instead of me having to leave a KZbin tab open JUST FOR THE NOTIFICATIONS feed because if I have to reload and scroll all the way down to where I left off, it's a pain in the ASS! There's my two cents KZbin, you didn't even have to ask me to fill out a survey. KZbin's great and it's been a life changer but it could be better.

[@LaMagnatron]

Our metric was much easier to track, as we just started, and only have 308 viewers, lol. Since December it’s been a steady pace of about 1 follower a day on average (😂)- with a few bumps up and down (subscriber wise) We posted two shorts in two days, and lost 20 subscribers instantly - which, at the time was literally 25% of our subscribers. We haven’t tried again since. 😅 Btw we love your shorts, Joe! 🤨

[@RoanokeGaming]

Around August of 2021 I got hit with something that was pretty alarming. A massive crash the likes my channel hasnt seen. I recovered last April. My working theory is that when they started pushing shorts, something else broke. It was the same thing as live streaming. It damages the channel more than anything

[@J9H5]

This is fascinating, thanks for sharing! It is perplexing that there is no way to keep the shorts and longs categorized distinctly, both from the viewer’s end on the subscription page, and from the creator’s end on the dashboard. It seems like that would just be practical, and help with some of the pushback.

[@KC_G4S]

I like how you’re continuing to “test” shorts with original content instead of just giving up on it. I would definitely watch more shorts if they are original content and especially so if they relate to your newest video.

[@jacobduncan2142]

I've always appreciated your candor. As long as you keep posting, I'll be watching.

[@Ptaaruonn]

For me, shorts are like just reading the news headlines, they are not worth clicking on. Glad you made the test and showed your results, i'm sure other creators will learn a lot from it. I've been a quiet follower of your channel for a couple of years now and i love it. Keep up with the good work. Suggestion for KZbin: Keep the shorts in a just shorts place and let people filter if they want to see them, or not.

[@MaineCoonMama18]

Glad you pointed out & explained the subscriber tab, I haven't been using it. I just didn't really notice it before, I'm not great with technology. I'm planning to stick around and see what you end up doing with the channel.

[@zimmy1958]

Joe you do what you need to I will watch. Stay strong stay shinny.

[@gagehaws3012]

As someone with insight to the changes to the algorithm involving shorts and the types of information givin priority, I believe the issue was that the majority of the shorts put out didn’t preform well. As you said the discovery part mostly rest with shorts now but simply putting out a large number of them won’t lead to better performance. A lot of your shorts views would’ve come from ur subs but the information gathered (Watch time, interaction, etc..) from someone who isn’t subbed has a higher “weight” or emphasis if u will. So when someone new actually does discover one of them, if they leave the first few seconds it tanks the priority of popping up on another non-subbed feed. All while your still pulling in some level of views from your subs but because they arnt fans of shorts your losing subs slightly more then normal. And because ur chance of being discovered tanks due to the priority of GOOD shorts for discovery you have that crossing of the lines we seen in the line graph for gained and lost subs. Hope this helps clear up some things I’m a big fan of ur content always watch within 1st hour of drop if possible

[@michaelporter1144]

This is a very objective deep dive, and I really enjoyed the analysis. Love your channel. Thanks Joe!

[@AstronautNate]

Very good insight, What you said about cluttering your subscriptions is exactly why I don’t like shorts. It is almost like spam and I really appreciate the fact you recognize this aspect of the shorts.

[@gwfan1994]

Honestly, you are my favorite KZbinr for a while now. Im a fan of your work and also of you as a person, so i will go with whatever you figure out to be the best aproach.

[@lilianamunn809]

I found your channel this year, and I absolutely love your videos Joe. Sending you good vibes and love 💗

[@manicdan481]

I wonder if lightning round questions would be a great shorts kind of thing. I'd say you can try the opposite, make them all as shorts across a month and then compile it into a longer video for regular viewers (with extended content because the 1 minute limit is just too short).

[@bzuidgeest]

I dislike shorts, but your idea is still s very good one i think.

[@LastGuerillaMedia]

I sure do appreciate the transparency. I absolutely like your content. I feel like most about those shorts. Gotta play the game, I guess.

[@TenderBug]

Interesting revelation. Joe Scott videos always rocks ❤ Btw this video definitely is TMI lol. Keep them coming Joe, shorts or longs, keep them coming 🤩

[@Nick-gm7ng]

Thanks Joe, it’s really interesting to understand a bit more about the thoughts and efforts that go into your productions. It’s impossible to be all things to all people and it seems KZbin is pushing creators down the path of trying to appeal to all trends of engagement. All I can say is I really enjoy your content and regardless of the “extra” bits you have to take on to develop the Chanel- it’s appreciated buddy!

[@srilataiyengar3056]

Thank you for these data-driven insights and your transparency, Joe. If you need to evolve as a You-Tuber, then I look forward to evolving alongside you as a viewer. Hope you keep growing and remain happy!

[@susanjohnson5824]

I just found your channel it showed up on my Home Screen as a video. I've been binging your videos and subscribed right away love your content.

[@ravendorminey]

Just watched this and agree with you and feel weird expecting entertainment or something interesting in 3 minutes or less. It takes away from why I watch my interesting KZbinrs. But- I am glad to see the shorts are separate from your regular videos so YT must have heard you and us. We support you!!! Thanks for doing these experiments and explaining them to us! ✌️

[@mortekrieger2291]

Thank you for not only doing this but also delving into some of the lessons learned. I've been dabbling with the idea of starting a channel for a number of months now, the latest few videos, updates and interviews over the last months across your various platforms have been far more instructional than most of the directed "how to start a channel" garbage out there. Just hearing your own conflicted views and struggles helps far more

[@loveshorts8259]

This guy also posted his results as well as his lessons, good listen kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJeUm4KthtikjtE

[@FirePoo]

The youtube algorithm has changed and not at all for the better. My favorite channels (this one included), take 2-3 days before they show up as a recommendation, and have not been showing up in my "subscriptions" tab. I also somehow got unsubscribed from several channels for some reason. KZbin has been a great way for me to escape my unbearable pain over the years. I rely on it on a daily basis, but they screwed up their platform in 2022. Please stay strong Joe, you give us amusing and educational takes on stuff I'm actually interested in. ✌️

[@StarTrekSundays]

I really appreciate this video. As a new KZbinr who's really perplexed by shorts and how to integrate them, this has been a great help. Thank you!

[@ryancomfy]

Good luck Joe, that's all it seems to come down to ... luck. It's a shame YT don't clarify/forewarn/apologise/explain what they were doing with content creators livelihoods. Love your work :)

[@joshuatadlock1890]

Whatever KZbin is currently doing I want to remind by asking you Joe that, is it not true that if discovery suddenly somehow went to absolute zero and stayed that way forever- it will never take away from the fact that you have built yourself a diehard audience that will always come back as long as you get posted even if it's reruns? Long story short good job man don't let the negatives get you down its ALL just positives in the end brother. Love you -thanks for being there, you showed up at a critical time for me during the announcement of Covid you were and are a fresh face that was priceless and remains that way for me no matter what you do my man! Peace out brother🤜💡🤛👈👀❤‍🔥🤘✌

[@Imperiused]

When people mention shorts being spammy, I can definitely relate. In the past I've unsubscribed to channels before if they posted too many videos and buried my other subs on my subscription page. I've since gotten a browser extension that lets me sort videos I see by topic, and that has helped a ton. Now if I'm only interested in seeing certain videos, I can filter them and make my browsing experience more pleasing. Don't think it filters shorts yet but its not a huge deal.

[@Yutani_Crayven]

OH MY GOD there is an extension for that? This is the biggest shortcoming of KZbin, having too much content on your main / subscription page and feeling overwhelmed, because you can't group it into themes. I'm gonna have to look for that. Can you mention it by name?

[@Imperiused]

@@Yutani_Crayven Yeah! The one I use is called Pocket Tube. Requires a lot of labor up front because you've got to make the categories and then go through and sort all your subs into them. But, definitely worth it.

[@emmanotsostrong]

Yeah, I didn't understand what was meant by "spammy" until I went to the main channel's homepage just now. It's completely plastered in Shorts, and yeah, I'd say it's spammy.

[@jcabanaw]

I look forward to a follow up on this experiment. Keep at it, Joe

[@leighjeffery1901]

hey joe! Feedback of one here, I watched your short that did really well (about sketchy stuff on your desk) because it wasn't a clipping from a video I'd already watched. And it was cute, clever and 100% you. Exactly why I subscribed to your channel! I won't be unsubscribing fyi - keep up the awesome videos, short and long ;P

[@CreativeIsolation]

Yes!! Take it or leave it: make the videos about you. I’ve already seen every one of your full length videos. But I’d be curious to learn more about you. Plus your existing fans can help the algorithm know that the shorts are worth promoting. ALSO, use this opportunity to stretch your comedy muscles!! You’re so funny, do funny sketches and have fun with it!

[@CreativeIsolation]

@@tj2375 you make some good points. I was only suggesting what I thought he could do on his channel that would work for shorts. It’s very difficult to translate what he normally does into 60 seconds. As he discovered, he’ll need to do someone original for these videos. In that case, why not do things more akin to this channel, TMI, or like the comedy sketches he already does on his main channel, but made for short content. Seems like that is totally in his wheelhouse and could work well in shorts for his audience.

[@pype720]

I agree that Joe should be put his comedy sketches into shorts. That's a natural fit I think.

[@jasonwomack4064]

This video encapsulates some of why successful channels stagnate. KZbin channels (starting out) are built on passion, hobby, and interest, by their creators. The consumers can sense the personal interest/enjoyment of the creator. Then, almost inevitably, the focus drifts to stats, revenue, minions doing some of the work for you. It starts out with a personal feel, like you're exploring a mutual interest together. At a certain point in the success timeline it flips, and feels more like a person just reading you a script. When it starts to feel like assembly line creation for the sake of creation, it's harder to hold an audience with only so much screen time in the day. I'm not attacking, or trying to be a jerk. I'm just saying there's intangibles to KZbin that many creators overlook or lose sight of.

[@Fleischkopf]

wish you all the best for your channel, dude. im watching your videos since about 4 years now

[@foxrings]

As someone that does SEO for their day job and has plans for getting into other marketing platforms for a personal project, this is very enlightening. Wishing the best for your channel!!

[@egonbraun]

Do whatever you need to keep your passion alive and make a living, few of us can achieve that and I am happy to see guys like you who did it! This will definitely not be the only change creators will have to go through and unfortunately audience will have to adapt as well. Worth mentioning, I would rather actually pay a monthly fee to watch your content on your own platform so big techs don't get a cut.

[@TheSteve1175]

One thing I can add is that I couldn't be anymore subed to you and when or even if your videos come up it's a few days or weeks after you've posted it. Bothers me a lot. 🙃✨️

[@joydeepjoshi]

U got it right in the end👍👍 Original, highly engaging/edited ahorts

[@GrandmasterBBC]

I've been a regular viewer and a fan of your show for quite a while. I love your style and sense of humor mixed with tons of amazing things about everything. We're still watching.

[@roy4173]

For what it's worth, quite a number of the shorts you posted led me to watch the full videos because they often ended on a bit of a cliffhanger. They were very interesting shorts! And I thought the idea was rather brilliant that you used the shorts as sort of mini-advertisements to your full videos. I realize that my opinion isn't one that was shared by most of your audience, but as a marketing strategy, I thought it was pretty effective. I'm also someone who mostly sticks to the home page so I only interacted with the shorts I thought were interesting. Do you have a separate Shorts channel or do you have any interest in making a separate Shorts-only channel that directs viewers to the full video links? You can continue to make original (what I'll call) "non-advertisement shorts" on the main channel but I think having a functionally advertisement channel to the main one might not be a bad idea. Assuming it doesn't take too much time to post these videos since the bulk of the work is already done.

[@BeautifulEarthJa]

I never saw one. I hardly ever get the kind of content I watch regularly as shorts. Hank Green and a few channels like pbs eons but mostly just dance, babies, pets.

[@andrewgliddenb9497]

Joe, whatever you need to do to evolve, I'll be here to watch along the way. Love your content, and it's not our fault that attention spans are dying. Smh

[@PaulBSimpsonJr]

You have a likable personality and excellent presentation. You have the ability to present topics in a balanced way. I would suggest more current event topics, such as the economy, the environment, military conflicts, politics, and social changes. I wish you more success.

[@andrewluchenbach]

I consume KZbin content on mobile, mostly through the subscriptions tab. It looks like the layout is organized like the home tab on desktop where the shorts are all grouped together. I prefer this layout since I can watch my medium-form subscriptions like usual, then watch shorts I'm subscribed to when I want to. (And since it's on the subscriptions tab, I can be sure I'm not missing anything from the channels I follow). This was an excellent breakdown! It would be nice to see a follow up after some time with your new strategy!

[@JsoN-_-]

It's the same for me as well. I don't typically browse through the subs tab tho, but this video made me go check.

[@driverjayne]

Yeah the mobile app handles shorts way better, which makes sense since it's a format really geared towards mobile users. But since it's so badly done on desktop it leaves people angry about the format of the videos instead of the real issue which is the way its handled on desktop

[@charliem989]

I think some of your best creative work is the intro sketches. When you first mentioned the shorts I thought it would be right up your alley for that reason. But, I do think the 60 second time limit is pretty limiting, YT would do well to extend that a bit. Also I can understand that trying to force that creativity wouldnt have great results usually, that this will eat into your production time quite a bit. Whatever you do, as long as you remain genuine, plenty of us will be here enjoying your content. Since I discovered you during the before time, in the long long ago, you hold on to some deeper wrinkles in my brain. I appreciate your work. Peace.

[@LoriH2O]

Thanks Joe! I had noticed lately that a lot of the youtubers I subscribe to have started posting shorts, and you just gave me a lot of context for why they are doing it. It's such a shame that KZbin is pushing creators in this direction. I use youtube exclusively for long form content, and while I do find all the shorts showing up in my subs page personally annoying, I can appreciate why yall are creating them. Unsubbing *because* of the shorts though seems pretty weird. I just wish Google gave us a way to hide/block them from showing on the subscription page. (With that said, I've recently started using a ublock origin filter to remove these from my subs page soooooo hopefully I never have to see them again :D) As a side note, your content is very awesome! Hopefully "the algorithm" gives you more love, you deserve it!

[@daveknight8410]

Carry on man I have no problem. Love your work

[@marksteudlein1832]

Here are my thoughts on the Shorts experiment: 1. General Considerations - I don't have TikTok, and I don't use Instagram or Facebook's story feature. My main aversions to that type of content are the short length and the vertical format. The shorter lengths either feel like commercials to me or give the impression of amateur content. The vertical content I just find weird. Most of my media consumption is via a desktop or tv. Even when on my phone, I prefer the typical horizontal layout. The vertical layout also gives way to the 'infinite scroll' feel of some websites. I like to interact with the videos by clicking the like button or add comments. Generally, the clip is over and on to the next one before you can engage with the creator's video. 2. Answers With Joe (shorts) - In the last bit of this video you go over the top performing short. I found my interest in the shorts was based on if it was new content as well. I didn't really see the point of watching the short if I was going to watch (or had already seen) the full episode that it was derived from. Those 'sample' episodes felt a little like an advertisement for the full show. I think the ones that did well were along the lines of a one-topic TMI or Answers with Joe video. I could see those as being something I could get into. 3. Final Thoughts - regardless, I've always enjoyed your content and will continue to watch. I appreciate the work that goes into them, and get a kick out of your humor. I've even started listening to your podcasts in the car as well.

[@Fixxitt412]

This was incredibly helpful and entertaining! My channel has been on a steep decline this year as well, and I’ve been considering doing shorts myself. Thanks so much for the deep dive!

[@Wreckz_Tea]

You're easily entertained. Lucky you

[@McMurica]

As someone who doesn't like shorts and was confused seeing all of yours in the shorts section (I didn't watch any of them), I just ignored them and of course remained subscribed. Plus KZbin just recommended this secondary channel to me and now I'm subscribed here too because this was very fascinating!

[@cobuck4007]

Thanks. This helped me understand why I dislike shorts so much. I recently unsubscribed from several channels because their embracing of short led to a cluttering of my subscription feed with content that was essentially frivolous to their regular content.

[@James_4444]

Could part of the drop be due to Covid relaxing now and more people are out and about rather than being glued to their phones at home all day?

[@joescott-tmi]

Possibly on some level, yeah.

[@James_4444]

@@joescott-tmi btw love your work, watch all of them.

[@Alexander_Sannikov]

shorts themselves are ok for those who care about them. what's terrible is that there's no way to opt out of them and once creators start committing to them, they just flood your feed (yours is not the only channel that's doing it)

[@nic.h]

I'll mark shorts as content I don't want to see. I expect that is also changing if normal content from the same channel is getting recommended. Unfortunately that's just how it's going to be until KZbin gives me a proper way of never seeing their tiktoks again.