I Regret Buying a 3D Printed Army for Warhammer Old World

I bought a 3D printed beastmen army from Etsy - in this video I show you the reality of buying a 3D printed army and question whether its really a better or cheaper option than buying official plastic models.

[@shockerck4465]

Best bet is to get a small " sample " order to check quality before buying a whole army.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Yep totally agree!

[@djludowici536]

Yeah confirm this. Etsy has become pretty bad esp with faceless retailers. Finding people who do printing in your local community is way better imho. If there’s issues they’re more likely to respond and fix it, shipping is less lengthy and less likely to break and you can find out what resins and such they’re using. And a few bad personal reviews will hurt their business much more.

[@belyy_rusky]

@@GRMDRK_inc I've also heard to make sure they're using a specific resin

[@the_arcanum]

Exactly. Same as when you buy from a recaster.

[@HotelCharliHill]

@@djludowici536 my experience with people IRL is they get so sad when you criticize their crap printing, and then they are also horribly unreliable sometimes. they also don't scale stuff properly (or at least it's a hassle to spend time discussing with them what your expectations are). honestly, best thing to do, spend the money and the hard work and time to get into 3d printing on your own and master it and print awesome stuff. that's what i did. so worth it.

[@tiny_worlds]

Those prints are pretty terrible. I get much better prints. That seller is using the cheapest resin they can buy and hasn't dialled in their settings well so are getting terrible layering. Leaving supports all over a cured model is a no-no too. They need removing before the mini is cured. I'd ask for a (at least partial) refund or leave some negative feedback for the seller.

[@MightyGachiman]

Your first mistake was ordering from etsy and not expecting bottom of the barrel stuff

[@ratatatuff]

I've ordered stuff from Etsy and got really great quality.

[@bigpoppa1234]

@@ratatatuff etsy is no longer what it originally was, which was small batch personal production from people in western countries, now it's just flooded with mass production chinese shit just like temu, amazon, ebay etc.

[@Pojko]

Speaking as someone who's bought 3rd party resin models from Etsy, from well-known and highly-rated sellers, I can say with all honesty that the stuff I got is in my opinion, better than GW's stuff, and at a fraction of the price. If you go for stuff made by, say, Highland Miniatures, Avatars of War, or a certain Horus Heresy dealer who doesn't want his name mentioned, you're going to get very good quality prints for insanely cheap prices.

[@margaretwood152]

(Please Give us a knowable HINT as to =What= His Name is.....then DELETE the comment (so I can check him out w/o GW being any the wiser.... _*Thanx ;-))

[@nicholasstachelrodt1668]

yea reply and delete pls

[@darrelstout575]

Hey why did you not contact the seller with these problems and either get a refund or at least a partial refund back. First that was terrible packaging that you received them in and second its rubbish anyone would have made you pay for a mini that did not print all the way. I would have just given you the print failures as extra bits or whatever you wanted with them at no extra cost.

[@haxan6663]

I have bought small quantities of 3D prints over the last few years. I have seen an increase in the quality of these and now have no issues with these minis. Yours looked like ones from a few years ago. Appreciated the feedback on owning a printer, which confirmed that I don't need one.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Glad you got something out of the video and great to hear you've had god experiences buying 3D prints. I think if you have a well ventilated space that you can also keep warm (important for resin printing) then its doable at home, but I do worry about the health impacts of the resin in an apartment.

[@zaynevanday142]

2 of Game Workshops biggest shareholders are Blackrock & Vanguard respectively 😂😂😂

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Yes they are. What is the point you are trying to make?

[@nicholasstachelrodt1668]

@@GRMDRK_inc something something dei esg

[@aguilarraliuga1777]

@@GRMDRK_incyou know exactly what he means, their mega corps that buy/ own anything they can get their hands on. Along with influencing whatever agenda they have at hand.

[@Valivictus]

There are really cool design for Beastmen - especially considering GW don't seem very interested about that faction - but the material doesn't inspire trust.

[@jcx117]

I bought one starter set of some kind of games workshop warhammer set for 65.00. That was enough for me, and I went to 3d printing them myself. Like you, I probably wouldn't by them printed from someone else. Just not enough cost savings. A couple of notes with my experience. With my GW models, i still had mold lines and points that were touching the sprus (sp) so not much difference than dealing with some supports. For my family’s and myself 3d printing it myself has saved thousands. I have been able to print armies for 4 of my kids, 1 of my grandkids and 3 armies for myself. Now finding the time to paint everything is a whole nother story. We couldn't afford to be in this hobby without 3d printing. I am sorry you had a bad experience. I can see where this isn't for everyone. I can also see the appeal of just picking up a box of models. Especially if you aren't building multiple armies.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Great comment. I can really see that 3d printing provides an opportunity to enter the games without the huge price tag - really excellent points you made.

[@kelseyhurst9408]

Why did I get a 3d printer? I love conversions and approximate proxies. it's been 2 years and I have sunk a lot of time into my printer and learned a lot, but now that I have it honed in, I can get an STL, and check over its supports (just in case it's been auto supported...) and have it in hand in the morning. maybe 20min of work for the STL processing, rerack printer, clean, and cure time is 22min. that plate just made one whole unit or one tank. at 85$aud a unit/tank, 1L resin (75$) lasts 1 tank, and 3 units, my labor is worth 1$/min and maybe 5$ for power and another 10$ for consumables so 5+10+20+20+22*4+75 =218$ GW 3units 1 tank =340$. so I save 120$ and have a bunch of new skills (technically the saving is much more cause I'm not paying myself for my own minis). also learned how to use blender to make my own miniatures.

[@Astrospill]

You bought miniatures for the wrong game, built out of the wrong resin, made on the wrong printer, created by someone that put no time into the hobby trying to make a quick buck. I understand that you had a bad experience, but it sounds like you did 0 research or vetting before you made an expensive purchase and are now trying to make that bad experience the benchmark for all 3D prints.

[@Fuchimy18]

Nerd!!!!

[@Erectus666]

True that

[@GRMDRK_inc]

This is a pretty lopsided view of the video in my opinion. The video was about my experience and journaled my experience and opinion. Also not sure why you're suggesting I did no research, I sort of thought the 12,000+ positive reviews on Etsy and 5 star rating meant something, but you know, maybe I'm a moron.

[@littleappocolypse]

@@GRMDRK_inc It sure seems like it. The majority of etsy sellers use cheap resin and over expose it, making the prints brittle as this reduces the amount of print failures and allows them to produce in bulk. It seems like you did absoloutely no research. Good 3d prints cant be distinguished from an original model and are way tougher when dropped. Most of my prints just bounce when they hit concrete and only the paint is damaged. Also you appear to have had the models in direct sunlight before priming them, this would over expose the resin and make them way more brittle. support posts in the mouth can be easily cut out with a sharp hobby knife.

[@elliotthompson8972]

Seems you need to ask about printers, resin types and exposure times when you buy from 3d print shops

[@ericcook8254]

Makes you feel any better in old warhammer the poses clashed with formations as well you always had spear or swords in awkward spots.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

I'm in keeping with tradition then :-)

[@OctopusPrime3]

I think the seller used pretty poor resin without their printer settings dialed in very well. Especially given the poor support placement. There are some really really good resins that came out in the last year that are super durable and flexible that hold very crisp details. I'd try one more time with a small order from a different seller and upload another video later. See if you can find someone with great reviews and who lists their 3D printing details I mention above. Nice video.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Great suggestion and thanks for the positive feedback!

[@BenJamin-en3jb]

The hardest part is propably finding someone who is willing to put in the work to properly process them after printing. I spend quite a bit of time carefully taking off supports, removing those little nobbins that are left behind by some supports, and otherwise cleaning up the mini. You can only do most of that before the mini is then hardened in the curer. At the same time, I hate that part of printing, and I can see why a commercial printer would do a shoddy job on that. As for the resin, there are several really good choices around these days. Both affordable and more durable than the one in the video. Still not quite as durable as plastic, tho.

[@kennit14]

it seems like you got a bad seller with poor quality control. having brought 3d printed stuff before off Ebay and they are beautiful with very limited problems. (however thats probably down to the seller being good) i would agree with you on how much a full army costs of 3d printed stuff compared to GW plastics the price can be comparable especially for troop units. my personal printer is only small so i mostly use it for parts and standard infantry, these are certainly cheaper once i knew how to set up and run my printer properly. sadly this seems like you got the bad apple of the bunch with a seller who has poorly supported and poorly packaged your army which sucks

[@SykeowarriorPK]

My $150 printer produces way above this quality lol, you got scammed never buy from a printer you’ve not vetted.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Well, we know that now! :-)

[@SykeowarriorPK]

@@GRMDRK_inc in a general sense, the “impending doom” isn’t current printing, it’s impending. Within a mere 3 years we’ve gone from $250-350 for a 4k with toxic resin that takes chemicals to wash to $170-250 for an 8k with water washable low odor resin. Give it another 3-5 years, and shipping containers full of plastic across the Atlantic will start making less and less sense in every category.

[@TheKittenKing]

You could have printed that army for around 400 USD, over a weekend or two yourself. Don't buy miniatures. Buy files and you will love 3d printing.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Appreciate the comment, but that was me a few years back with my 3D printer. I bought a number of files (or file packs) and did a fair bit of printing. Unfortunately I found it too messy and time consuming. But the main concern I had were related to health. The fumes from the resin in my apartment and also when a glove broke I got a resin burn that eventually turned into a patch of eczema. It’s great to hear that people love it and I can definitely see the attraction, but I would need more space and ventilation I think.

[@TheKittenKing]

@@GRMDRK_inc Ah I see. I keep mine in my shed.

[@karmaq8462]

Yeah i dont really have those problems with my models that i 3d print , looks like the exposure was set to hi if there are pot marks and layer lines .

[@CGOLAN]

Why so many dislikes? No controversial content included, just an opinion and author's own thoughts.

[@7nineofspades5]

You not doing your own due diligence about who you're buying from, the scaling of the models and the resin they use, doesn't mean buying 3D prints is a bad idea in general. I have a whole 3D printed beastman force and they're better quality that what you've got there. I printed on my own Mars2Pro (Not a great printer and really old at this point) almost a year ahead of Old World releasing and no breaks since then.

[@joshlarue6304]

Fuck GW! I will 3D print since they want to fuck over lore and raise prices after making £50 million in profits!

[@scurvy786]

i don't print whole armies, mostly just bits for conversion but i use a "tough" resin and u can drop it with no fear of it breaking. i imagine many are selling normal resin, and that stuff is far to brittle for anything other than a display model

[@markrond2395]

0:20 an existential threat to the business 8:24 The suggestion that 3D Printing is cheaper is a complete fallacy unless you do it yourself.

[@cgs00791301]

3D printing isn't for everyone. It's a hobby in itself, and there are so many bloody variables that will affect the prints. So GW is probably not in any immediate risk from 3D printing. But...while you can get bad experiences with 3D print miniatures like described in this video, the right resin, setup, and production of the prints can give you miniatures that are VERY comparable to GW minies in quality. And while GW still haven't managed to outprice enough of their customers for it to be a problem for them yet, they have crossed the threshold with some people. And as 3D printing technology keeps improving, GW will have to start paying attention to it. Because improving AI will assist with automated support placements on files, resolution is already up around 12K, and I suspect that AI automation may also become able to assist with setup and troubleshooting of print failures. And while 3D printing won't become something for everyone, you will see increasing amounts of professional miniature companies that base their production on 3D printing, and competition will likely increase. But GW's major advantage is really their brick-n-mortar presence.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Great comments and agree with you about the potential for AI to be disruptive in this space!

[@o0Takeno0o]

I Print everything myself, do the supports myself and even fix / change the stls to fit my needs. The 3D Printing is a Hobby on its own for me so i have Games Workshop Models and 3D Printed ones sometimes i ddint like the original Design, sometimes i want my very own Champion / Regiment etc.

[@death2all79zx]

Completely different experience from what you had, I have bought from at least four different Etsy sellers within the last year and a half. It was a mix of 28 and 32 mm figures for fantasy and sci-fi war games, and some 6 mm stuff for battle tech. All of the prints came out well detailed with sharp and crisp details, whatever layer lines were visible to the naked eye did not affect either priming or using a GW Nuln oil wash, or army painter wash on them. But there's also brittleness to a lot of the styrene-based plastic models. I have had the chaplain miniature from the old dark vengeance box set break at the mace handle on the miniature after it was dropped, I have had the Magnus miniature from relic knights break at his staff from being dropped, and I have had the gale Force 9 premium resin cast miniatures for d&d break just from transporting from venue to venue. Some of the 3d printed resin figures I bought were made out of ABS plastic and they have a flexibility that is on par with the newer PVC plastic made by reaper miniatures. I have also had fleet scale spaceships printed and they had hull details that were Superior to any of the games workshop specialty products. Regarding cost of 3D prints versus GW box sets, for $140 us. I can get 26 orc miniatures with most of them being orc figures and a handful of squig riders. For the same price from an Etsy seller, I can get 32 orcs, two vehicles, and eight orcs riding cyborg boars.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Great comments, thanks for posting your experience. This is all valuable information for the community.

[@cernunnos_lives]

Yes this can take autistic levels of detailing to know, but it's still the only way many people master this craft. It's just like anything else worthwhile. It doesn't have to take a lifetime but any art can. When you see a brand name, that's what you are trying to buy into. Just know that you have options and opportunities here. GW are too big for their britches and need to get knocked down a few more levels. Get humbled. And centered on what's important... The crafting. Not just profits. But long-term relationships with your supporters. Survive with a soul intact.

[@BjornKuma]

I used to buy prints off of Etsy, and it was hit or miss as to quality. Now I own several printers and sell on Etsy, but from the perspective of the hobbyist, not a cheap cash cow. Everything I do is 8k, in either ABS-like or Toughness (depending on required rigidity) resins to ensure durability and quality for my customers. Unfortunately, a lot of customers will give glowing reviews for crappy prints because they don't understand how quickly things have evolved on the resin side. Etsy has some awesome stores, but there is also a metric ton of crap to wade thru if you don't know what to look for.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Would be interested to give your prints a try - please feel free to plug the name of your Etsy shop! :-)

[@themalcontent100]

You know full well that GW will cut costs on the miniatures.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

They just keep slashing prices! (Joke)

[@grimdarkEarth]

Avatars of War make amazing orc/goblin army stls for Old World. Presupported and 100% successful as long as your setup is correct!

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thank you! I will check them out… I do like the gobbos! 😊

[@aldaron1021]

Yes, I am very much looking forward to paying a local 3d printing artist to fully 3d print my Orc and Goblins army from Avatars of War and paint them in the grim dark style with lots of mud, rust and blood.

[@armoredjoey]

This guy ripped you off SOOOOO BAD!!! First of all I can tell he used the cheapest most brittle resin available that you cant even drill into without getting hungry for a bag of lays(chips). Second of all for that price I would expect him to professionally prep them and base them and package them. I'm sorry to say he absolutely took advantage of you. He might have done a bad packing job or he might have just gave you models that HE broke and you cant tell. I can also see he sold you FAILED PRINTS and everyone who sells 3D prints knows that you trash the failed prints and take the hit on cost yourself and consider failed prints in your final pricing of your product. I would have sold you all of that with better quality resin and a much better packing job for less than $150 USD. It would take me 2-3 days of work total. This guy must be making bank though at that price and using the cheapest resin you can get. It probably costed him about 15 bucks to print that entire set with that garbage resin. That makes me absolutely furious for you. I wouldn't Imagine buying from someone doing 3D printing is much cheaper than GW because they have to take a cut to make a living right? But If you 3D print your own stuff, Its MILES cheaper! I would say I have way more 3d printed factions than I ever really thought I was going to have since I started 3D printing. TOO MUCH even... Dont buy files though because thats addicting and you never print half of what you buy.

[@marklathouwers3650]

It would be disheartening to have that as you first 3D print experience. I agree that you lost money compared to buying GW boxes, but I felt the same way about Finecast :)

[@mr.finkle4677]

You just got ripped off. That’s all. I print and the shop I play at prints and they are fantastic. Those looked nothing like the picture you ordered from for sure.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Appreciate hearing about someone else's positive experience. My friend also had a better experience with me. Live and learn I guess.

[@Norcha8]

I visited the listing and you can see from photos left by other customers that the resin quality is poor. The seller has a 5/5 rating though which is odd, but you can see it's brittle, poor resin from the photos.

[@silox250]

Did you use 30mm bases for the bestigors? Other than that, you were absolutely ripped off mate and I would raise hell on that sellsr

[@JudasBrennan]

You got ripped off by a bad seller using substandard materials and overexposing the miniatures. Why would you pay more for prints than plastics? 🤣 As you have your own printer, you could have printed all that in about 2 days for a fraction of the cost.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

I take your point, but it’s not all about the cost. I have a very busy schedule in my day to day life and I just don’t have the time to do heaps of 3d printing. Then there are also the health concerns I have about handling resin and the smell of it in my apartment. I paid that price for the prints because I thought the sculpts looked better than the GW minis available and hoped that the prints would be good quality given the Etsy seller rating and sales volume.

[@Bitplanebrother]

so basicly you got ripped of with cheaply printed and processed 3d Prints..and now 3d printing is worse than GW minnies? i do print and sell 3dprints myself..(just for frriends)..with the right resin and the right processing there is virtualy no difference to WH minnies...exept the sculpts..but there are some very talented sculpters out there tha sell tyhre stl for a reasonable pricetag.. in fact ..3d prints can be way more detailed than those made with injection molds..since those have to consider the ejektion from the mold and airbubbles forming while injekting.. that could even be the reason why "traditional painting" with washes needs to be a little adjusted for that.. 3d Printing will and is already a big part of the Wargaming hobby...and GW will have to adjust . (maybe by selling STL by them self ?) sad that you got such a bad experience with your 3d prints... greetings from germany (sorry for my poor english)

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks for the reply and thanks for sharing your experiences! :-)

[@NullStudiosGaming]

I need to learn how to get better resin prints because the ones you got are exactly how shitty my prints come out LMFAO. I think it takes knowledge and the right type of resin to get decent prints, these were not. That guy ripped ya off I guess :(

[@user-sq5fb9tn2d]

Totally agree on the durability issue, my 3D printed minis break more often and worse than plastic. However I began buying from a trusted source and the quaily of the prints and durability went up massively

[@mrspeigel3593]

Those miniatures were designed for use in AoS Highland Miniatures designs models for WHFB

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks, I suspect you are right. Unfortunately, nowhere was this made clear to me on their shop and all of the miniatures were depicted on square bases. In hindsight, I should have done a "test buy" first before putting in a full order - lesson learnt! :-)

[@squadmoralerestored]

Thanks for your honest opinions - it backs up my experiences too, 3d printing just isn't there yet. Maybe in 5 to 10 years but the cons outweigh the pros at the moment imo.

[@alexcutajar3992]

Another thing I forgot to mention. Some sellers wants to print fast as they have many orders and they set the slicer instead of .05mm to .1mm thickness each layer so detail would be lost in some areas. For big models this is acceptable for minis that is not acceptable. I suspect your seller used this option to speed up things especially if he was tight in time for dispatching the order.

[@verigone2677]

you also can't judge the ease of printing, smell, and speed based off of what YOU did a few years ago, these machines have made MAJOR developments over the last 3 years with only more advancements coming fast all the time. Also, buying from ads that ONLY provide renders is a huge red flag.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

As far as I am aware, the MAJOR developments you refer to do not remove the need to handle TOXIC resins and clean it off prints, but please correct me if I am WRONG. I have a patch of ECZEMA on my hand that developed after my glove got pierced by a SPIKE on a mini and I got RESIN on my hand.

[@ArchitectureModels]

Bad 3d Print Shops are a real pain as they’re actively hurting the whole Printing Bubble. Someone who put the effort in to provide a good product can definitely deliver as good if not better quality than gw from a detail and durability standpoint. But as of right now many if not most Etsy seller have no idea what they’re doing and are just looking for a quick buck. There are no objective rating systems what quality you as a consumer can expect and that’s also a really bad thing. Hopefully this phenomenon thins out over time and you’ll actually get what you expect once you order sth.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks, appreciate the thoughtful reply. I was actually really surprised that my experience was negative because the Etsy shop had a 5 star rating and over 12,000 reviews. Maybe my bar is set too high or I got a dud batch?

[@ArchitectureModels]

No idea what exactly happened if the store usually seems to provide good quality but those minis you received were absolutely atrocious. I have spent a lot of time into refining my own printing process (mostly for architectural prototyping and mock ups) because the requirements in terms of quality and durability are quite high. So I’m saying if it’s done professionally you won’t have dents and leftover supports on your models, most of the time you won’t even realize where the smallest supports were (larger ones might dmg the model slightly) So to conclude I don’t think your expectations weren’t high st all they were very reasonable and the product you’ve received was inadequate at best. Really sorry you had this bad experience

[@GRMDRK_inc]

@@ArchitectureModels thanks so much for the reply! Maybe I will give it another go sometime 😊

[@jtrain9926]

​@GRMDRK_inc at a glance I saw some big red flags in those prints on top of the stuff you discussed. That shiny finish indicates the prints weren't properly cleaned and the wash solution was oversaturated with old resin. That causes loss of detail. It also looks like the prints are over exposed . Very obvious supports being left on the model is bad form for selling prints. The odd small ones in tucked away areas are common but main supports should all be removed. My guess is that seller is over working, maybe they scaled up production really fast but lack the manpower to keep up with demand.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Yes, I agree, the minotaurs in particular looked over-exposed to me too!

[@sanja2776]

If you are not enjoying them, and you are sure they won't work in a game (not ranking up) cut your losses and get something you are going to like. There is no point in "persevering" in something you are acutley disliking :)

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks for the thoughtful comment :)

[@sanja2776]

@@GRMDRK_inc You are welcome :)

[@Izzboticus]

Can we have the link to that Etsy store?

[@GRMDRK_inc]

I worry about putting the name in a public forum. Is there some way to message you privately?

[@----.__]

Seeing your balcony makes me homesick! I used to live opposite Perth Zoo on Millpoint rd, the view was very similar. I'm now on the other side of the world, and while looking out on to a forest is great, it's not the same at ground level in a house! Thanks for the vid, mate, stay well.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Oh wow, thanks for the great comment! Hope you are doing well on the other side of the planet 🤓

[@AgoreiosWargames]

I´m not gonna lie man, you got robbed by that price and quality. We´ve done about the same kind of minis for $220usd and we use flexible resin. I think that is actually the biggest drawback of 3d printing, everyone thinks they can do it as a business and most people can´t. So you end up with bad experiences. I hope you try another vendor down the line sometime. In the meantime, keep wargaming, plastic or otherwise!

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks so much for the reply and feedback. Please feel free to drop a link to your printing service here, I may well try you out down the track! 😊

[@AgoreiosWargames]

@@GRMDRK_inc I appreciate that so much! we are actually not taking new business because we have some backlog built up, but I do appreciate the gesture!

[@BitzboxTV]

These are definitely poor prints from a poor seller. That said I always prefer to work with GW plastic than resin. There's some amazing STLs out there though and it's hard to resist printing loads of miniatures I'll never get round to painting

[@MercifulAndvary]

“I love Warhammer, but I’m not particularly keen on prepping the models or ranking them up (i.e. “doing the more laborious portions of the hobby”). I just want to clip the miniatures off the sprue, paint them and play. Even though if I saved on GW stuff I could probably leave my apartment and buy a house by now”. This right there, gentlemen, is a core GW consumer, and this is why GW will stay in business (for a while at least).

[@Xarl-VIII]

Etsy 3d printing services use the cheapest resin available. Most likely they used waterwashable resin which is very brittle

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Great comment - that would make a lot of sense!

[@willsuttie3683]

You getting ripped off on one purchase doesn't mean that the whole idea that a 3d printed army is cheaper is "a complete fallacy".

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Just my opinion. It really comes down to how you value: your time (either researching 3d printers to supply your models or DIY time), potentially different quality of models from poor supplier or badly calibrated/supported models, and any potential health impacts of resin if you are going down the DIY path. Everyone is going to place different weight on these things and have a different opinion.

[@shauntaylor9251]

It's not just the quality you need to worry about buying printed minis , I bought some dwarf figures last year and the smell of them was really bad , left them out in the shed for a month or so and they still stunk . Even when they were primed you could smell the resin , they ended up binned it was so bad

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Oh wow, that’s terrible!

[@BenJamin-en3jb]

Maybe those minis were never cured in a UV box after printing?

[@grimdarkEarth]

Also, proper 3d printed minis are usually made of ABS-like resin so those bad boys can actually hold up when they are dropped. It takes time, trial and error to understand the many nuances of proper printing however when everything clicks you can come out the other side with an entire army that would have cost 10 times the price you pay for the resin and the files. Like every hobby though, the upfront cost is a price you pay to play. Like the hundreds of dollars spent on paint and brushes to bring our grey plastic blobs to life. What would be best for you is to make a connection with somebody actively printing their armies. Buy abs-like resin, buy your files (legit sculptors), and pay dude/dudette 50 bucks for the work. No more assembling or paying 60 bucks for a box of 5 minis.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Great advice! Thank you!

[@beachedwalrusau]

Problem here is etsy sellers use normal resin which is super brittle. They also do not clean the supports properly before cleaning/uving the models. I personally have had supports in the mouth regions on models i've printed and can get them out easily before uving them, then it becomes a lot harder. Also abs like resin is a game changer and makes the minis way more durable... not gw plastic durable but still i've had some take falls onto tiles and be fine.

[@flixmac8265]

Come man, buy your own printer. The fact that I can swim in the internet and find cool and FREE STLs, slice them in a FREE software and print them on the spot... it is something not only impossible to imagine years ago, but absolutely game changer. On the other hand, if you spend a bit of money in presupported design with a company behind, the quality is great. Sometimes greater than GW. I print 10 whatever warriors for less than 4-5$ and GW is charging now more than 40-50$...

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Just curious, but did you comment without watching the video? My 3D printer is discussed in the video :)

[@samhoban2509]

I’m Australian and regularly buy printed resin minis online. They’re different. They can be brittle, and they have different undercuts, and ridge measurements and aren’t designed for perfect painting like GW minis are….but that aside. I paint to display, not paint an army to play with. Resin minis require more cleanup of support marks, and generally don’t support wash painting, if you’ve done no prep on the model. They DON’T however, have 12 gaps to fill, or mold lines. Like I said….they’re just different. They also don’t have 97 greeblies. Haven’t had any major problems I’ll definitely do it again.

[@BenJamin-en3jb]

I print myself, and I don't agree on the wash painting part. That being said, a certain amount of post-processing is simply a part of printing. So maybe I'm already doing the prep you're talking about. Models like the ones in the video drive me mad, because all those remaining supports and little nobbins are really easy to remove without (much) damage to the mini if you do it before hardening the mini. Basically the seller made the minis a lot worse than it could have been, by skipping a few minutes of work before hardening.

[@johnhickman8391]

Dont beastmen go on 35 mil base? Im pretty sure ive been seeing them on 35s. 35s should fit those size models

[@GRMDRK_inc]

The bestigors go on 30mm and normal gors on 25mm according to this article: spikeybits.com/warhammer-old-world/warhammer-the-old-world-base-sizes-guide/

[@zenpo6322]

I have several dozen units that are 3d printed fron etsy and they are great.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks for commenting and providing an alternative experience. This is useful information for others who are considering 3D prints.

[@ericdavis4964]

GW Business practices will eventually kill GW. GW does not require any external factors for this to happen. The lore of almost 40 years will still remain long after GW has put themselves out of business.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

I commend your confidence in this prophecy.

[@elmo1234]

I think your paint job is great! Don't be so hard on yourself. I think you rescued the poor printing and elevated the quality of the minis. They are definitely playable for a few games of Old World.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks, very kind! 😊

[@MiniAxeCrafts]

That batch looks like they were produced by my Dog and the first 3D printer ever made. They are particularly rough, that large support in the mouth is typical of someone clicking "auto-support" and then print without checking anything. It's a great warning video to others!

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Glad it was useful to you!

[@MiniAxeCrafts]

Just to add, I used the same model you're holding at 9:15 in my latest Diorama and I do agree, it wasn't fun to paint... The beastmen 3D prints seem to be especially troublesome. All the Orcs i've painted have been great to work on though.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

@@MiniAxeCrafts interesting! Thanks for the comment too. Anything thoughts on why you also found them difficult to paint? I found it hard to pin down exactly…

[@MiniAxeCrafts]

@@GRMDRK_inc I think a lot of it is down to them being beastmen. In short, I thought they were a bit "messy". Too much going on in too little space. Fur, teeth, skin, horns, eyes, straps, skulls and the odd spot of metal, all with their own texture and painting methods so it's a lot of work for 1 model, out of a group of 10+

[@ComandaKronikk]

Just buy your own printer. I've done 4 full old world armies. It's a whole new world! The 3d printing designs also often surpass the detail and quality of GW's dated models

[@bjornkonrad8007]

Looking at the quallity of the print in the closeups, you basicaly got scammed. these are low resolution prints from very poor resin. The Support issues you spoke about can also be almost entirely avoided in the preprinting process. Get some samples from diffrent printers and pick one that works. The low Resolution also ruins the paintjob. The Price you mentioned also seems oddly high for such a low quality print.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here - apprecaited

[@kieranpurves1488]

I have 3d printed armies that I did myself, and have bought a few models over the years. For me, nothing beats plastic to work with and own. Expensive, yes, and certain models are so much cheaper (looks at my 12 printed grotesques). I did a few alternate models for my Moria goblins (drum, troll, captains), they look and feel great. They don't compete with my love of the shittiest old sculpts of GW moria goblins though, and the plastic balrog as well

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks for contributing your experience - hopefully this will help others out 🤓

[@sbart23]

Couple of points from someone who picked up printing half a year ago specifically for Warhammer Old World and learnt the good, the bad and the ugly of 3d printing on my way to making five 1000 pts armies for me and my friends. We are returning to the hobby after a 20 year hiatus and were quite taken aback by the GW pricing for models that are pushing 20+ years. 1) It is always worth finding out what type of resin is being used in the process as some are completely not cut for handling and moving that is involved in wargaming. I am guessing that particular seller on Etsy tried to cut corners and went with something cheap as decent ABS-like resins can be several times more expensive. 2) I immediately recognized your Beastmen as designed by Raven Twin, since I naively picked up their stuff for a friend's ogre army. The sculptor(s) behind those STLs is clearly extremely talented, but the minis are over-engineered and simply do not yield themselves well to 3d printing, much less 28mm scale wargaming. There's also something to be said of their shoddily designed pre-supports. Nowadays, I go for STLs from more established companies like Highlands, Titan Forge, Txarli or One Page Rules (Bestiarum and MOM Miniatures are also worth a mention). Your mileage may vary with other creators, but as a rule of thumb, if a designer does not offer pictures of printouts and/or does not run test prints prior to releasing the models, there's little to suggest that their stuff is of any use for hobbying and wargaming purposes. Oh, being a LycheeSlicer ambasador helps, as does having pre-supports designed by an external, specialized company. Sometimes ticking all of the above boxes means that the designs are less flashy than what you get nowadays in Age of Sigmar, for example, but you will be thankful later when assembling and painting a whole unit counting 20 or more models.

[@littleappocolypse]

Don't bad mouth raven twin, they're a phenomenal designer. These were clearly done with chitubox automatic supports not the raven twin pre supports. The raven twin models are super easy to print and have tons of detail

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Great comments! Really informative and helpful to others that are considering 3D printing for their armies!

[@petehill7465]

I've purchased both good and bad 3d printed minis, and now have 'favourite' suppliers/vendors (and ones to avoid). However, I think 'GW is doomed' because of the complete apathy and lack of value they place on their customer base, not because of 3d printing.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Great to hear you have had positive experiences with 3d prints. It seems there is a need to find a good "dealer" :-)

[@wyldwabyt]

Supports are an art, and knowing how to take them and clean up all play a role in how the minis are going to look. Also you should have scaled your army down a bit. I dont trust anyones scale until I scale them in the slicer.

[@ramonjimenez5944]

Your 4k printer would have been higher quality. I know what it is like to be busy but one plate of prints per day to make an army in a week or so is not that tall of an order.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks for the reply, but I think it’s important to note two things here: 1. Everyone’s lives are different, you don’t know what my schedule is just like I don’t know what yours is, so these sorts of comments aren’t warranted. 2. I live in an apartment and have the health effects of resin fumes to consider. Not just for myself, but for the other people I live with. A lot of people seem to be quite dismissive of this and I’m not sure why that is.

[@ramonjimenez5944]

@@GRMDRK_inc i get it. I am not dismissive of your time or concerns for the VOCs. There are ventilation options. I am a parent in an apartment and it is a big concern for me. I really hope and try and get into printing...safely. Its going to be a big part of the hobby moving forward. it really is a lot of fun too.

[@tonypridham1253]

Really sorry that you ended up with such poorly printed models, they really are bad. I haven't been into printing for such a long time, maybe 18 months or so, but there are some small adjustments to setting up a model ready for printing that make a world of difference to the final product. From orientation, resin type, support settings, angles, etc, they all make a difference and honestly don't take long to learn, so for you to end up with such bad prints just shows that the seller has no regard for their customers and, as everyone is saying, is just in it to make some serious money. To be honest if I was tossing up between buying the official models or spending $400+ dollars on printed mini's, I'd definitely be choosing the official models, I'm actually very surprised that they are charging that amount of money for printed stuff! As for the whole GW vs 3D printing argument, well that's gonna go on forever, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but at the end of the day you do what makes you happy, that's all that matters. Enjoy your hobby and try not to let this experience spoil things for you.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Great reply, totally agree people should do whatever they like and it seems like a lot of people get results they are happy from with 3D printing. Rest assured it was only $400 in Australian money - so that's like US$1 or something :-)

[@intothezombieapocalypse]

this is the reason why i decided to not order preprinted models for mordheim and necromunda. I ended up just ordering some ebay rescue zombicide black plague minis lol

[@darioscomicschule1111]

Thanks for this Video!

[@Dylanquinn666]

Buying 3D printed minis online (especially etsy) is a gamble because there is zero quality control. It can be hit or miss and unfortunately these are garbage quality. They did an awful job with these and you got ripped off. It's a shame because the sculpts are quite nice. A few years ago before I bought a printer of my own, I bought a few printed Artisan Guild minis from a business called Excellent Miniatures in Germany and they were fantastic. Top quality resin, perfectly prepared and sharp details. They looked better than Forgeworld resin. No imperfections or support damage at all either. Nowadays I still buy Warhammer and print my own minis (mostly just as painting projects) but the difference between a good and bad print can be huge. 3D printing is almost a hobby in itself and I've stuck with it long enough to get pretty good at it but I understand it's not for everyone. Sorry you had this experience, it sucks.

[@aaronshan1984]

Good 3d printed minis are better in detail and generally require much less assembly than a GW kit, saying that 3d printing wont kill GW, they will kill themselves, i owned and ran a hobby shop for nearly 4 years and GW were the very very worst of my supplieers and the 400+ member group i am in on facebook of hobby shop owners all over the world will all say the same. That out the way, i am sorry you got some crap prints that should not happen full stop, i would have sought a refund myself (if i did buy, i always print my own stuff). Do your research and make sure that what you are paying for is going to be to your standards, ask for extra photos, ask for samples, a good 3d printing company will have no problem proving they are.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks for the great insights from the perspective of someone working in the hobby industry! Can you elaborate a bit on what GW does that makes them a bad supplier? (I’m genuinely interested)

[@Geerladenlad]

I almost forgot the Avatars of War modular 3D printed Beastmen kit is 100% better than the ones you bought. At least that's been in my experience I didn't purchase the ones that you did because they looked like they would be junk to me but I think you would be pleasantly surprised at the Avatars of War Beastmen. They're modular and if you get them from the right shop they're a lot more durable and being in pieces like that when you glue them together they are much stronger!

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks for mentioning these - those sculpts are really cool!

[@popcorngenerator1925]

I personally will never do 3D printing. (I know this was about buying 3D prints not diy, but still) I’m not a gamer, but I enjoy building and taking my time painting them. I do not have a space for a printer, but mostly I do not want to have to go through all the pissing around with the calibrating and printing and cleaning and dealing with resins. For me, that is all work I have to do before I can actually start and enjoy my hobby, and my free time is not limitless. I think a lot of 3D printing advocates forget that some people just want to be able to buy a mini they think looks cool (and say what you will, GW makes cool minis) and paint it. People have different priorities and what they want from their hobby.

[@GothamAmbService]

Really great vid, balanced and informative

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it 😊

[@Thorgrax]

3d printing is surely not perfect. but as sure as gay wokeshops prices hike, 3d printers will get better and more affordable. and you can use them for more than just wargaming.

[@manticman2148]

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with 3d printed miniatures. I love printing 3d miniatures. I use Elegoo ABS like 2.0 resin. This is great for printing miniatures. They are way more flexible and durable than other resin miniatures. I used other resins before and they shatter it you drop them. So picking the right resin is key here.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks for the constructive comments - I'll give that resin a go!

[@SBF3D]

You messed up here sadly. You should have looked at where the seller was based and ordered a small sample set first to check the quality. Sadly the seller you got these from has got next to no quality control and what looks like incredibly poor packing skills. That support placement is horrendous too 😱 Next time do your own due diligence though, I'd never place a huge order through Etsy that is from another country.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Yeah, thanks. I think you are right. Lesson learned which was part of the motivation for this video: don’t go buy an army on EBay in the same way that you might go and buy one from GW.

[@SBF3D]

@@GRMDRK_inc it's a shame you've had a bad experience, people like this seller give us 3D Printers a bad name. Best of luck with your future projects

[@the_arcanum]

Cleaning 3D printing supports is the same chore as cleaning mold lines unfortunately. But I get that your main gripe is you bought prints with low quality resin that's brittle and that had debatable post processing (not cleaned enough). Good 3D printing "Tough" resin that's flexible enough for tabletop handling costs average 30-50% more than the standard one that's good to put small busts on your shelf. And you need double alcohol bath with an ultrasonic cleaning to perfectly clean your resin model and avoid muddying down the details. So it's extra time too. When you're shopping around, it should show on the price tag. It's a vendor problem, not a technology problem.

[@Nolidior]

From the looks of it, you just bought them from a terrible shop. Not only they had terrible resin, models have grain effect, so their use of slicer was pretty bad and marketing photos are all taken from elsewhere. I had invested in 12k printer, a good quality resin and learnt a bit slicer to make good looking models myself, so I am pretty sure you can get a good army, if you do it yourself or find a better shop elsewhere. I don't use etsy, but we have our own "local" ebay, so I have seen some 3d printed stuff that is being sold in quite nice quality. You just have to search for it, probably... or make it yourself.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

I think you are probably right, DIY is the way to ensure quality. Surprisingly, the shop I purchased from had 12,000+ positive reviews and a 5 star rating. Worst rating was 3 stars, so perhaps this is considered "good quality" by a lot of wargamers? Maybe my expectations were too high? Dunno.

[@Nolidior]

To be honest, there are two or maybe three possibilities here. First might be quite simple. They might have bigger team, and your order got to the person who is new, has an old equipment, no experience or just didn't care about quality. Happens once in a while. Second one is also simple. People who buy these don't know how "proper" 3d prints should look like or differences between 2/4/6/8/12K prints and whatever they get is "good". Third option might be using fake reviews/accounts to boost their numbers and score, but knowing China, they don't really care for such. It may also be something with "quality over quantity" situation, where they have so many orders, that they have to lower quality to speed up production. If you want better quality and details, your prints will take longer to print. My 12K printer can print out whole plate in 2 hours, but there is higher chance of them breaking here and there. At the same time, if you change settings to extend time of flashing/lighting, delays, lower speed, etc. whole plate will take 2-3 times longer, but in 95% of time prints will come out pretty much perfect. I did start with 2K printer and now I use 12K. Prints from your own video do look for 2-4K and with a lot of issues, but like I have written above, it might be a lot of reasons why your order was botched so much. I would say they just have so much orders, and that's the reason behind so low quality, but might be wrong.

[@Nolidior]

Well, I might show a link to my prints. Dunno if link will work, so I will cut it a bit here. Added spaces in two spots: files. catbox. moe/ij2h9w.jpg

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Wow - that looks amazing! Necromunda?

[@GRMDRK_inc]

I'm going to take a random punt and guess that this is Siraya Tech resin (blue-grey)?

[@Erik-hh9bp]

Metal dude! Hunt down Metal.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

🤘🤘

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Yeah 30mm on the bestigors - they seem to look better (not primed yet) and pack together into a unit (phew!)

[@spuriusligustinus4509]

3D printing IS cheaper than GW overpriced plastic BUT as with any TOOL, it requires effort to properly use it but once you find good settings, resin (go for any tough, ABS like or flexible resin, don't be cheap...) you are good to go. I own a humble Elegoo Mars 2 Pro (so 2K resolution) and some of my prints can totally pass for GW SM or even look better (One Page Rules Saurians). Your mistake was in trusting the wannabe entrepreneur (AKA scammers) that stalk Etsy and sell bad quality prints from good to terrible scultps (and sometimes without even having a merchant option from the creators...). Since you already own a printer, just find good settings, good resin, good models (not hard, lots of amazing stuff on MMF for fantasy), good procedures when printing and when you'll be in the habit of doing it, it'll become easier than building GW models and removing those curse mold lines...

[@InputVerolian]

I run an etsy store and would love to send you some of our minis if you like. Your experiece isn't unique and it happens when someone doesn't spend any time mixing resin or learning how to properly remove supports.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Sure, that’d be great! Happy to do another video showing what prints from another outlet can look like

[@InputVerolian]

@@GRMDRK_inc Grimdarkcuteness

[@markrond2395]

This video was a real kick in the balls. I just started my own 3D printing business in Australia and my goal is to make the highest quality miniatures. You need to put in a bit more effort before you make claims like this. I get that the printing was a bit smelly, but try not to do it in a small apartment. As for price, down drag down a whole industry mr. shareholder just because you got ripped off sending your money to Europe.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Not sure why you are taking one person's legitimate and actual experience as a kick in the balls. It's not made up, its not lies but its also a single persons experience. Hopefully its useful to you in terms of seeing what a customers expectations are and also what you might need to do as a business owner to ensure quality control etc. As for your comment of "try not to do it in a small apartment"... ok, where do you suggest other than my apartment? I guess you're one of those fat cats that lives in a house!

[@markrond2395]

@@GRMDRK_inc I am no fat cat, I am sure you are aware of the housing crisis, so I live in a small apartment too, I have to do my printing in the space between the car and the washing machine but I use the same simple green you do and it is no ordeal that you make it out to be. you can have your legitimate experience, but it is your blanket statements of 3d printing not being up to your standards and people should avoid it that hurt. You should have printed all that stuff yourself for under $20 but you couldn't due to your house circumstance, so you opt to buy off etsy instead. that's reasonable. But then why did you choose to get them from Europe when there are dozens of local options? have you tried going to any shows or conventions in your area?

[@GRMDRK_inc]

@@markrond2395 It’s not the smell of the simple green I’m talking about, it’s the resin. It also burnt many hand when a glove broke and gave me permanent eczema on my hand. So please don’t try to judge me for prioritising my health. Can you point me to my blanket statement where I say that people should avoid 3D printing? Timestamp? Pretty sure the entire video is me saying I was disappointed with the models I got and then asking people to share their experiences. Many have shared their positive experiences and I have thanked them for the constructive feedback.

[@SmileyG13]

Bad experiences happen sometimes the saying is true if you want something done right do it yourself if you take the time to learn the print its more variety in minis and cheaper than GW and 3D printing isn't making a dent in your shares its the company's current partnership with amazon I recommend you sell as the CEO did

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Yeah, totally agree - doing it yourself is much better. I just can't afford the time and the smell in my apartment was a problem too. Don't get me started on the Amazon debacle - not good times for shareholders!

[@supermaraudergirl9770]

okay... you hate assembling minis, you have problems printing your own and don't like the low budget quality from sus online shops... you sure, you're in the right hobby?

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Love painting minis and playing games, so yes.

[@NatesMiniatures]

The quality of those ones looked like they were not quality checked at all @3:02 the horn on the head did not print either. And I noticed they put on the listing high quality resin at $50 USD per liter but the colour on those types of grey resins is darker. It could be the camera but this looks like it was printed with a cheaper Anycubic standard grey along those lines. And a lot of small supports still attached is not good either, I would not judge 3d printed miniatures on this one person mate. And hot damn I am in the wrong industry $333 for the amount of minis there would of set you back 1.5 liters of resin :S. Buying the files from Raven Twin Miniatures and finding a local person that can print would be your best bet. A liter of that cheap resin is around $29 per liter AUD, so that person had a huge markup. And the more liters of resin you buy it usually gets cheaper so I got around 8 liters recently and got it for as low as $24 AUD per liter. I also bought those files from Raven Twin Miniatures the original creator and printed out most of what you got there and I can say you could of had that entire force for $24 - $44 AUD. If say you got a better resin that can be dropped and still be fine that will cost you around $50 - $60 AUD for a good resin then you could of had it for around $50 - $110. I think this seller just pumps them out and does not quality check and does not use good resin like they advertise. I 3D print everything myself so I have never bought from a seller before but I do see why people turn away if they got prints like that all the time.

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks for the great comments! Yes, I was disappointed with the quality and the fact that minimal cleanup had been done given the price I was paying. Agree the sculpts are amazing and would be very interested to see what they look like in other resins or from other printers.

[@NatesMiniatures]

@@GRMDRK_inc Sorry you had a bad run with those prints though, I understand why it would turn you off. But it is not the end of the world :D

[@wakankinyan]

Z3D printed me some sick house Dragon Ogres. I'll recommend them all day.

[@user-jj5bj6im8g]

So you bought fake warhammer models for more money than original? Congratz, you are scammed. If you really want to get cheap and durable models, you need to buy recasted models, not 3d-printed

[@postreinanimation]

460$?! 😂 you can buy a printer, cure station and resin for this price and print armies like there is no dawn for men (and in a much better quality). I would make the argument that most of the quality differences are not due to the limitations of printing but of issues with the designs. Getting scale and style right for a specific size is not easy when sculpting digitally and as the designers of the old metal minis had to think about the casting process while designing, the same is true for making files for 3d printing. So is it possible to make thin spear shafts and hollow shapes in a mouth? Sure but it's probably not smart to do that for a unit that you're going to transport and play with a lot. Remembering the old days of metal tanks and forgeworld resin details I am more than comfortable working with 3 printing. But if you are used to smooth and unbreakable plastic for armies that travel from tournament to tournament then yes, you might want to pay 100x more for the original. I think it's not one or the other. It depends what you're looking for. Me personally, I'm just blown away that I can sculpt and produce my own warhammer figures at home with minimal space and budget.

[@ochoaE3]

I've come across this seller before and have considered buying from them since their prices are good. Now I know to stay away :)

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Glad it helped you then! :-)

[@AdrianLeeWebDesign]

Don't know who you're buying from. I find 3D print to be 30% of the price of GW. Print quality is maybe 70% to 80% of GW quality. 3D print is not as user friendly and durability varies. Still, for 30% of the cost it's well worth it.

[@patrikandersson8054]

Will 3D printing kill Games Workshop? No. Will it affect their bottom line? Yes. As someone who has been printing for little over a year, it's a hobby in itself. I own an Anycubic Photon D2, and it churns out models with WAY more detail than anything GW has ever produced. But it's not a plug-and-play business. You need to learn a couple of things to make it work. Once you do, though, it's really satisfying. I recently printed a Warhound titan for Legions Imperialis. It cost me around $2 worth of resin, including a scenic base for it to stand on. And, once painted, it's indistinguishable from a GW produced Warhound. Except for the scenic base, of course.

[@B4MBI72]

They are some nasty prints, not very representative of what a home printer can expect to get. Layer lines at around 6 mins are shocking, must have been printed super fast with a large layer height or on a very old printer. I just printed a 1500 point undead OPR army from 2kg of resin (£35 UK) probably around 50 minis and a couple of large 'boss' models. Time wise, I just slice and press go then come back tomorrow. I am lucky enough to have a dedicated workshop/studio space in my loft (attic) with fume extraction so the whole smell/ chemicals thing is not a thing for me, but I do appreciate how this is a problem for a lot of people. Cost wise, typically I can print a unit of 10 minis for less than £2 of resin, £10 a month gets me 20-30 very well supported top quality minis from Patreon sculptors, 5l of IPA lasts me around 6 months of pretty much daily printing. Its hard to put an exact figure on it, but this year I have paid £50 to patreon, and bought 2kg of resin, £35. I have printed around 60 undead/vampire units and around the same number of orcs many of these are far bigger than your standard 28/32mm minis, and a couple of large dragon / dinosaur monsters. WAY, WAY cheaper than Games Workshop and I honestly believe the quality is on par if not better for the majority of the models. For me the printing side of the hobby is just another layer of the fun, its not a chore

[@SchalaZeal1]

GW really getting obvious with their shill accounts now lol. Still not buying plastic from Blackrock :)

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Meanwhile, Blackrock is a shareholder in most major companies across the world…. Better stop using Amazon, watching Netflix, buying food from grocery chains etc etc.

[@Wolf359inc]

I have been wargaming for over forty years. GW minis are great. They have excellent detail, and are, generally, pretty robust. But they are incredibly expensive for what they are. I stopped playing most GW games around 7th edition of WHFB. I sold off almost everything, apart from my huge Wood Elf collection, and my not so huge Tomb Kings. They remained largely untouched, until recently. Then I discovered One Page Rules. Now, my two armies have a new lease on life. Not only that, but I signed up for their Patreon some time ago, and now have more files for wargaming, than I can ever hope to print. I got into 3D printing quite some time ago now. First, with a very basic Cartesian FDM printer, which was replaced with a, then, bells and whistles delta printer, soon thereafter, which I have been using ever since. But FDM isn’t the best for printing wargaming miniatures. Great for terrain, and larger models, such as tanks, but unsuited to printing roughly human-sized models at ~32 mm scale. So I purchased my first resin printer, via Kickstarter, a few years back. This was decent, and I was able to churn out a complete set of enemy miniatures for Gloomhaven, as well as prints to replace the many tokens and tiles in the game. But it wasn’t great. The quality wasn’t as crisp as I’d hoped. Recently, the company who makes my printer went out of business, and third-party supplies for it dried up. So when bits started to wear out, I no longer had a working printer. So I purchased an Anycubic Photon Mono 4K printer, which I continue to use today. This machine is a wonder! It prints crisp, detailed miniatures, which are as tough, or flexible, as I need them to be. But having a good printer is not enough. You also need good resin. My “go to” resin has always been the “Rapid” range, by Monocure3D (an Australian company, which is handy, as I am an Aussie). Their basic Rapid resin produces crisp, detailed minis, if somewhat brittle. This is easily countered by adding around 25% of their Flex100 resin to the mix (so, 75% Rapid resin, and 25% Flex100 resin). This produces robust minis, with sufficient flexibility, that the model can survive being dropped on a concrete floor, most of the time. It also allows such things as fins, spears, etc, to be quite flexible, and have a huge degree of give, before snapping off. I believe Flex100 was designed to be added to existing resin, to combat brittleness. I don’t think it is intended to be used on its own. And this is just their basic resin. Monocure3D also have a “Tuff” range, which retains the strength of their Rapid resin, but not the brittleness. They have recently released a “Tensile” resin, which is their most robust resin to date. Their other recent release is a rubber resin, which is designed to be used on its own, and is perfect for such things as rubber tyres for miniature vehicles, or phone cases, or anything that needs to be flexible. Pairing the 3D minis from One Page Rules, my new printer, and Monocure’s resin, I am printing robust, detailed, quality miniatures, which are as good, if not better, than what GW is producing. I have printed around 5,000 points of Robot Legion forces (similar to GW’s Necrons) - lots of ground troops, larger spider robots, tanks, artillery, and a huge “Death Pyramid” - and am just starting on my High Elf Fleets forces (which are being released a few units at a time, over the next few months, on their Patreon), and they look fantastic. I have painted around 80% of the Robot Legion models (all of the “infantry” models), but haven’t decided the paint scheme for the remaining, larger, models, as yet.😅 It is worth noting that my fantastic resin printer is a few years old now, and there have been many newer printers released in the interim. I am happy with my machine, and the prints speak for themselves. Imagine what these newer machines are capable of printing. So, I think GW are right to be concerned about the future of their miniatures business. You have to pay for each miniature you buy, each time you buy it. If you want a squad of twenty of something, you have to buy twenty models. With 3D printing, you pay for one model, or a few different models, or pieces to create and pose a model, once, and can print them as many times as you like. Through their Patreon, for $10 USD a month, I get a huge amount of miniatures from One Page Rules, with new models every new calendar month. I’ve been subscribed for around two years, and it has cost me $240 USD, overall. In that time, I have amassed files for around six complete armies - three fantasy, and three sci-fi. I also purchased a few files for army bundles from their store on My Mini Factory, to round out armies that were already in progress, when I joined their Patreon. Patreon members get a flat 50% off MMF OPR purchases, and often as much as 75%, making these bundles a steal. So, I have spent around $300 USD. For files to print miniatures for eight complete armies. What will $300USD buy you from GW? I can guarantee you, it’s not eight armies worth of miniatures. Oh, and did I mention, they provide the rules to their six “core” games for free? Said rules are all on one page (it uses both sides of the page, but still…). And the games are fun, fast, and keep each player invested for the entirety, instead of one player having a long downtime, while the other has their turn. They also have a free, online, army creator, which anyone can use, that has all the information for all of the armies, for their core games. If you join their Patreon, you get access to the “Advanced” rule sets for their core games. Forever. If you stop your subscription, you retain access to these rules, and still get new versions of the rules, when they are updated. And, finally, subscribers gain access to create custom armies in OPR’s online army builder. Which can be shared with other users. They actually encourage you to create your own armies. So, if you are interested in 3D printing your miniatures, and are sick of GW’s high prices, and the constant churn of needing to buy new rules and new editions of the same game, take a look at One Page Rules. It really is revolutionising wargaming. There are other companies out there doing similar things, but, for me, One Page Rules is doing it the best. Cheers,

[@GRMDRK_inc]

Thanks again for the thoughtful replies and for the suggestions on different resins. I'm also pleased to hear you are still enjoying the Anycubic Mono X - I have the same printer and there have been a lot of comments here telling me that it is a terrible printer etc etc. Like you, I thought it was a nice printer, but a huge downside for me was the potential health impacts of the fumes (I live in an apartment) and getting eczema on my hand after getting resin on my hand (a spike on a mini pierced the glove). It can definitely save people a lot of money, but there is also a lot time, effort and mess that goes into it and that's not for everyone in the hobby. Personally, I'd rather paint my pile of shame, but each to their own - whatever brings you joy. Also, you aren't a shareholder in "on page rules" are you? (joke!).

[@Wolf359inc]

@@GRMDRK_inc I agree that resin printing is a messy, sometimes hazardous, hobby. You can take all the precautions you want, and things can still happen. When I was starting out, I dipped my entire hand into some resin, as I dropped something it, and wanted to get it out. Didn’t even think about the consequences. Fortunately, this had no immediate impact on me (though my tolerance for resin has probably been reduced somewhat, now). If you don’t have a well ventilated area, fumes can be an issue. I am fortunate in that I have my printing area all but seperate from my house, in a back room, with great ventilation. At present, home-based 3D printing is as much of a hobby as wargaming. One day, in the future, I’m hoping it will be as simple as selecting a file, hitting print, and the printer takes care of everything else, including cleanup - FDM is mostly there, but it still has its own issues. But even as things stand, I find better value in 3D printing, than spending money on overpriced GW models. Sadly, no, I am not a shareholder of One Page Rules. :) However, they reinvigorated my love of wargaming, which had been dormant for over a decade, and I love it. I have looked at other companies/ businesses doing the same thing, but none of them are doing it as well as OPR. They have even partnered up with several other mini companies, who are producing their own armies, which in turn, have game rules for said models in OPR’s army builder, listed under the “Community Books” tab. Such armies might not fit in with the lore they are establishing for their games, but it allows you to do such things as having the Rebel Alliance, from Star Wars, going up against the “Bugs” from Starship Troopers. Thanks to the (mostly) balanced creation rules, you can have a reasonably balanced game. And they are always working on improving said game balance. Updates to rules are now set annually, unless something is obviously broken, and needs patching. So, you end up with a pretty stable rules set, and entire armies never need to be removed from the game. Opps, I did it again… lol Cheers,

[@GRMDRK_inc]

@@Wolf359inc really appreciate your reply :). I’ve never tried one page rules but it sounds cool, so I will need to try it out. I do find the voluminous rules for 40K daunting at times.

[@jamieoliver1976]

Terrible experience of 3d printing, though better research will reap better rewards and it isnt difficult to insist on photos before you buy anything online. If they wont provide dont buy from them or take a risk... simple

[@ImposCoE]

I feel like 3D printing has become so easy, the market is flushed with poor miniatures that have a huge amount of flaws, and as 3D printing is getting easier and cheaper, that problem is only going to grow and grow and grow

[@SamIAm_The_Motorcycle_Man]

Your printed minis on bases thats so much harder to do lol

[@GRMDRK_inc]

I didn't print the minis... and didn't print them on bases...