Who is Warhammer The Old World REALLY for?

[@BroadswordWargaming]

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[@pronumeral1446]

Guys, guys, guys ... don't forget that a lot of AoS models are compatible with Old World. I mean... obviously Daemons but lots of others too.

[@captainferrite]

I like how you tried to say "Ironically, they're just as expensive as modern models" but got cut off twice XD

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Haha.

[@jodofe4879]

Not liking the Dwarfs? That's a grudgin'!

[@monkeypoo3000]

THAT'S GOIN IN THE BOOK!

[@DayneGodwin]

The real saving grace of the older multi-part plastic kits is that you can just clip them out into a pile without having to keep track of what's what. Everything fits with everything else, etc. 20 torsos, 20 legs, 20 sets of arms, 20 heads, and you're golden. You can clip, trim, and then piece them together afterward. By comparison, putting together my Khorne guys was more trial and error when I first started with AoS.

[@SashaS-s2z]

Same can be said for other manufacturers. In Oathmark, for instance, arms from one kit will fit a body from another. It is mostly true for Mantic, as well.

[@DayneGodwin]

@@SashaS-s2z yep, I do miss this kind of inter adaptability in GW kits. The modern ones go together cleanly, sure, but the lack of differing poses is lame.

[@SashaS-s2z]

Monopose kits are an objectively wrong design direction when it comes to kits representing infantry for horde armies (Ork Boyz? Cultists? Seriously?). At the very least, they could be monopose and easy to build - like the mostly single-part (and fun to convert) Poxwalkers.@@DayneGodwin

[@Archaeologyhat]

I feel like an issue here was that the dwarfs had a fair amount of what makes dwarfs good - tough infantry and shooting while the Tomb Kings had none of the parts of the tomb king army that actually pack any punch.

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Yeh, for sure! It was just the models we had handy so Ciara could roll some dice. The TK definitely need some wizard powers!

[@spnked9516]

The problem with TK back in the day was that they were absolutely horrible rules-wise. 7ed introduced changes to the VC to address some of their problems, but the TK saw none of those changes despite having the exact same problems. It's not exactly fun playing a faction that guarantees you lose ever game you play because your lich priest just gets nuked off the board turn one. It's a weirdly unacknowledged thing in the hobby, but sales do have a habit of following rules. When you look at the least popular factions in Fantasy or 40k, they tend to have two major things in common - their rules are awful and their model lines don't receive updates (See Dark Eldar for a current 40k example)

[@commonman4413]

Yup the point is that the dwarves beat down a rank of skeletons only for a caster to replace the loses. Seems she is missing the caster.

[@aliveTerraN]

This is the game for me, the customization and freedom is what draws me, combined with the really nice gameplay.

[@graefx]

One thing I've been saying about TOW models compared to the modern kits, is I find the build process of new models really exhausting. The sprues are laid out so randomly combined with there's so many bespoke cuts that you've got to painfully hunt over the sprue for the 1 piece you need. I remember when you could cut everything into piles and just go. Modern models are so packed with fiddly details it feels like they're more designed for macro photography than toys to play with at arms length. The mono pause models also look great as one offs but the minute I get duplicates it's really noticeable. I really appreciate that TOW reminds me of these being toys first. I just wish they were priced accordingly. I cant wait for the Dwarfs box. I just wish Chorfs came back too.

[@drdiscostu]

TOW has got me back since 5th... Wow am I finding this out! Currently assembling a lizardmen army from new models and it's tough going

[@DestroyYouAlot]

I do find assembling newer Citadel kits a real hassle, especially compared to the infinite poseability of 2000-ish era plastics.

[@julianmhall]

TOW /are/ modern kits.. they're just modern kits of an older subject. I think they are reboxings of the original toolings that GW kept when they ditched the original Fantasy world.

[@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290]

True that, CAD sculpting makes using all the space on the sprue efficiently more easy. This made the sprue way more complicated however. Most older models could reliably built by a youngster, while the newer kits rely on instructions.

[@DrBlaxill]

Yes. A great deal happened here. But it's a very long story, and even if we sat for weeks and weeks, I wouldn't be able to tell it properly. Let me use an analogy. Perhaps the first few pages of the 'Long Expected Party' seem quite dull compared to a modern fantasy novel. But what follows is the Lord of the Rings.

[@Willabrador]

Well said Dr

[@christopherbyrd5818]

Got into this game in back in 1990. Best tabletop game ever. So happy they decided to bring this back; hope it is successful!

[@noregr1173]

Play Dragons rampant, much cheaper, wargames atlantic, oathmark and many other companies these days makes multi part miniatures with a huge kitbashing oportunity instead of giving money to a company that's toxic against both staff and fanbase

[@overlordfuzz9254]

Typical GW nonsense aside, Old World is a wonderful blend of what made each of the recent WHFB editions great. Only quibble with the rules is how toned down and flattened each faction has been written, which was presumably done for balance reasons and a more 6th edition feel. I expect with supplements many of them will come into their own and have more flavor, but even now the game is just as fun as I remember it being. I already have two people with little to no wargaming experience starting armies for it. Once the old Empire plastics go up for sale I will be happy to buy them, but in the meantime I am having a great time with my existing collection that has sat patiently since the end of 8th edition when I was graduating high school.

[@pronumeral1446]

I had hoped they would get rid of the to-hit tables. Would be so much simpler if units just had a value (eg: 3+) on their WS or BS, at least.

[@stephenjenkins7971]

Never gonna play it, but it does seem about as balanced as WHFB ever could be. Barring maybe the dragon spam.

[@PrzybyszzMatplanety]

@@pronumeral1446 Get rid of the to-hit tables? Blasphemy!

[@djangofett4879]

AOS also started off pretty basic and has added more flavor over time

[@AngloSaxonWheatFarmer]

I’m just happy Enough to finally make a Bretonnian army without having to do model archeology

[@5az2]

Tbh Old World is for me. I used to play a lot of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay with my friends back in the day and when I finally get to the miniature painting hobby around 2020 I was looking to buy some models from THE Warhammer. Turns out that there are only space warhammers from the future and weird medieval ones which world is completely different from my Warhammer. So with the rerelease of the Empire models I will finally be able to buy warhammer models that I pictured in my mind all those years.

[@PeterIsATeacher]

I gotta admit one of my favorite things about your content is that you both agree to disagree on things and explain why

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Ah thanks! We do try to stay honest. We have very different experiences with gaming, so it's nice to hear it from someone else's perspective. 😊

[@equos5060]

For me the biggest problem is that there are basically two different groups of people interested in this hobby. Old Guard with their old models expecting everything to be as it was in the past. And younger people who grew up playing Total War games and want to use new (usually better) models that don't fit on the bases. Shoutout to my Lizardmen players.

[@oitoitoi1]

@@equos5060 "better". Oh yeah because that's how art works...

[@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290]

@@oitoitoi1 indeed, didn't you know? The scribble I did on a napkin this morning is better than the Mona Lisa since its newer. Jokes aside tho, I find it concerning how many people think that "more details = better".

[@ryantuck5716]

My dad, brother and I have been getting back into it after a long hiatus. I am playing Chaos Dwarfs/Kingdom of Bretonnia, Brother is playing Tomb Kings and Dad is playing Lizardmen. It has been fun reconnecting over a shared hobby in the past. We are going to play a big battle at Christmas.

[@BroadswordWargaming]

That sounds amazing! I wish my brothers lived near me, we could replay old games all day. Enjoy the good times!

[@jimmyjamwhambam]

So hard when someone else doesnt love the thing you do so much!

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Haha, nah, it's all good. I'll make sure to set her up with a wood elf dragon next time!

[@YuriGualeri-t5q]

not that hard if you love a pile of scrap sculpted mini that GW make you pay like they are made out with gold.

[@greggtierney8418]

@@BroadswordWargaming not sure if you could film it, but some of the more modern sculpts for 3d printing might be a nicer army that ciara may care about. but i did not say this *hides from GW wrath*

[@miketogwell1000]

@@greggtierney8418 highland miniatures, last sword miniatures, onepage rules also reconquer design has some nice (mostly historical) that would make a nice bretonian army

[@greggtierney8418]

@@miketogwell1000 I'm currently doing orcs, because I bought the mega paint set from army painter and they gave me so many greens it would be a shame to not do orcs

[@WhiteBuffaloWakanGli]

It’s a game for me! Someone who couldn’t afford them when I was a kid, but now I can! It was always a dream of mine to have a Tomb Kings army, and now I finally can!

[@garbagecan755]

Honestly the most fun part of the older styles of Warhammer is the list building. Not that I don't love the game and ToW is actually a very tight system, but what it brought back for me was the ability to tell a story when creating my army. I'm not just adding 5 or 10 Dudes who always come equipped identically, I'm building regiments and detachments and modeling specific wargear. I'm telling a story. Basically, building a list feels like creating an RPG character. Exactly like DnD the game is fun if confusing and a bit overcomplicated for what is really "necessary" but the point is it impacts the list building and adds character. It's not just A Tomb Kings army, it's MY Tomb Kings army.

[@thenobleplatyous101]

That’s possible with any warhame

[@brightestlight9462]

@@thenobleplatyous101 not to the same degree compare primaris marine squads to tactical squads. there's movement away from customization in favor of the streamlining where every unit of a certain type is identical.

[@wolfie54321]

The appeal of square bases and simple models is when you think of a whole regiment as the aesthetic, versus individual models as the aesthetic. I went through a phase where I didn't like WHFB models and preferred dynamic poses and models adorned with details, but over time I've gone back to liking the WHFB aesthetic where no one model looks cool, but the regiment as whole looks cool.

[@ratatoskr9366]

Its for fans like me who were introduced to the Warhammer Fantasy universe back in 2016 through Total War: Warhammer and then proceeded to fall in love with the world through books like Gotrek & Felix. And are now craving to play Warhammer Fantasy on the tabletop. Truly, if Total War Warhammer wasnt the major success that it was, than Old World wouldnt exist imo. I get why 40k players dont get it, but the lore and world of Warhammer Fantasy is so awesome. Its so in depth, its Tolkien on cocaine.

[@SanxBile]

The first "negative points" are literally the positive points for me! Not having to move every single model using a dang ruler? Yes please! Larger scale battles involving more models. Definitely!

[@asbrozek64]

That kinder egg comment was BRUTAL

[@richardokeeffe8375]

It hurt. What hurt more is she actually correct 😂

[@philipbowles5397]

To be fair, the Tomb Kings models weren't among the better models in their time and in this version of the kit they've actually used some even older VC Skellies as base Skelly Warrior models. While the Skeleton Steeds date to 3rd Edition and the very first plastic Skeleton box. Tomb Kings were never a popular army, and I think that's because their models (and to a lesser extent their rules) let them down as they became very popular lorewise.

[@PrzybyszzMatplanety]

@@philipbowles5397Nah, screw the models - people played Tomb Kings for fun lore and never minded the models. Sucky rules was the main thing that made them unpopular and generally unplayable. They were undead that didn't have access to VC necromantic tricks that made vampiric armies useful.

[@owenthomas5103]

the sad thing is they WERE cheap gaming peaces. Those skeletons were cheaper than a kinder egg each when I used to collect. It was the idea that every model needed to be master-peace quality and cost more than a full meal each that turned me and lots of player off.

[@stevenwhite7763]

The first WH army box I bought, way back when, was the "new" Tomb Kings. I opened it, looked at the old style, crappy, every piece broke when trying to cut the sprues, and promptly brought the whole box back to the store. These do not look like improvements.

[@colinsmith5712]

Yes! More of the Old World please.

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Give me those high elves!

[@dylangajewski]

"They weigh about a gram..." sounds like Kiera needs some 90's lead models :D

[@jimbusher5895]

It's definitely a nostalgia thing. I have my dwarves and elves from 1st and 2nd edition, so it's a great way to get them back on the table top and stick on some late 80's music

[@Knoffles]

Perhaps the other element that makes so many people love the old world, is the 20 years of background fluff from novels etc. I know that is one of my reasons!

[@purplesonics9964]

"Put on Stargate" you guys are now my favourite youtube channel.

[@BroadswordWargaming]

It's a classic hobby show. 👌

[@esaedvik]

@@BroadswordWargaming And there's SO MUCH of it as all of it is good. Almost 350 eps.

[@aidenchilds5478]

As a new player, I've spent a good amount of money getting models together. But, on the whole, I've been super excited to be getting into the game! Colleccting and paint all my new models has been a lot of fun

[@TriggertheTaco]

For me it's all about the lore. Fantastic worldbuilding.

[@BroadswordWargaming]

So good. Delighted to have it back.

[@pwrlol]

Totally agree, I think I’d personally be more excited if GW did a more modern ruleset but just set in the Old World. Frankly Age of Sigmar rules or Warcry but in the Old World setting would be good. A Fantasy version of Warhammer Quest or the return of Mordheim would be fantastic.

[@kevbrown3760]

Yup, kind of really bored with AOS lore. The whole 15th-16th century look, isn't for me. Whereas the TOW has more of a 12th-13th century look, love that.

[@Bluecho4]

For those not a fan of the old Dwarf sculpts, and you don't mind third party sculpts, consider looking into Oathmark models from North Star Military Figures. They've got a few different Dwarf plastic kits, for making different unit types + loadouts, along with a number of metal models to round out the army. (They've also got a bunch of other fantasy armies in this vein, like Elves, Orcs + Goblins, Humans, and Undead. You know, if any of those are more your speed. The company's Frostgrave line even has plastic kits + metal models for Gnolls and Snakemen, if you want some alternative styles of Beastmen.)

[@kmykz]

I do like 40k (a lot) and start to gain some sympathy towards AOS - but TOW is what I wanted as a child and dreamt of doing but I was too young, knew no one who had it and probably could have never afforded it. So it gives me the option to build the armies I wanted to around the time 5th Ed. came out. Big nostalgia.

[@Emanon...]

It's for all the nostalgia dudes like me with disposable incomes and/or old models lying around. And we're very happy about it. BUT there's no way a teenage newcomer has a chance to enter the hobby with the steep entry cost unless they buy secondhand or non-GW models.

[@BroadswordWargaming]

100% agree.

[@AM-uw3gp]

Yeah I fit that demographic and plenty of spare change now to spend on reliving my teenage years, time to collect all the stuff I couldn’t afford in the late 90’s

[@GoatTheGoat]

8:36 You pulled a bunch of good rolls there. Skeleton Archers ignore to hit penalties. So they always hit on 5+.

[@stevenwhite7763]

Ciara, I don't think I would ever see you play historical wargames. My last venture into the Punic Wars was over 500 figures. In Warhammer Old World scale, at least eight and a half Tomb King boxes.

[@madhellz3230]

There is an option what me and a friend are going to try and that's use a cardboard standy army army to see if we are going to like it before paying £100-£200 out for a army or 3D printing ones

[@daniellogue8365]

Love Ciara’s honest opinions and Oliver’s enthusiasm, you two are the best :)

[@philipbowles5397]

Army sizes will be about the size of 6th or 7th, which translates to similar or smaller numbers of models than in comparably-sized Age of Sigmar armies for most factions, rather than 8th's hordes - it's a myth that WFB has bigger armies than AoS. Tomb Kings specifically are a horde army, and aren't comparable with the more elite AoS incarnation of the same archetype, but stuff like Chaos and Beasts which are literally the same army in both games will be comparably-sized and unit costs are similar. For instance Dryads cost 130pts for 10 in new WFB and 100 in AoS.

[@charlesfe]

My club is participating in Games Workshop book club this Friday evening. Everyone will be reading the rulebook, mostly the index, and frantically searching for rules which weren't listed in the index. Great fun is anticipated!

[@miniaturesandstuff7376]

for me its not just nostalgia, i think the old models had a much more simple design which gave the models alot of charm. and also gave great conversion possibilities. Newer models, especially from GW, have way too much stuff going on on the model. And the over the top style of the poses is really off putting to me.

[@littlejimmy5020]

Ciara needs the chaos of orcs and goblins clearly 🤣

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Crazy mad stuff.. that makes sense. Wait until she starts launching Goblins at my beautiful movement trays.

[@coureurdesbois6754]

She could always use AOS models on conversion trays or square bases. ​@@BroadswordWargaming

[@tomusannonymous]

I wish I had bought Battle for skull pass back in the day. I like the old models generally, not all of them. It might be nostalgia but the thing is I never stopped preferring those simpler styled models, and most of what I buy is like that.

[@philipbowles5397]

Rumour has it that both Skull Pass and Island of Blood will get rereleases, and they've certainly reused the Skull Pass art a lot. If so, though, I expect them to be limited Made to Order things through the GW store, not main range releases - Island of Blood certainly won't get a 'core' release as Skaven aren't a supported faction.

[@Is_This_Really_Necessary]

I've found that the easiest way to paint skeletons is to undercoat them white, basecoat the armour in metallics and wood brown, then wash the entire model with Agthrax Earthshade. You can easily knock out an entire army over a weekend. (Or a long weekend if you want to spend extra time painting characters.)

[@LocalBaron]

It's for me because I played Vermintide and Total War Warhammer, I already love playing Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, I have a bunch of 40k and AOS models painted and now I get to paint Bretonnian Knights, my favorite Warhammer Faction of all time.

[@curticusmaximus]

Did I see her not count 5s as hits for the tomb king archers?

[@pilgrimogorson9435]

I love the old models from 6th edition, especially compared to 8th and AoS. The different approach to perspective and proportions makes them look fantastic in formations, while late editions and AoS stuff change from beautiful and detailed sculpts to blob once gathered in a large numbers.

[@robertsedgeman2437]

You can always look at the Minimagtray movement trays. Magnetic receptive, flexible positioning, low profile and ready to use out off the bat.

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Thanks for the tips! I'll take a look!

[@biggyrich]

Sounds like a standard old warhammer game, "we called it there" after playing for ages. Sadly I feel KoW has filled this hole better and for WH fix Warcry is a great system IMO.

[@Dryzual]

I thought tomb king archers always hit on 5+ regardless of modifiers

[@mikeblake3001]

"They look like kinder egg toys" - ouch!

[@watts18269]

I’ve been into warhammer fantasy since the 90’s as well and for the last like 10 years been buying older models on eBay. Love metal 90s minis. I’ve noticed since old world came out suddenly people are charging a fortune for old wood elves and dwarfs etc haha luckily I grabbed most of the classic stuff already 🤙🏻

[@raymondsmith6870]

Love Ciara's voice and old world phrasing. She really took one for the team in this video.

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Haha. She speaks her truth. Kinder egg toys. lol.

[@turnt_barbarian]

The mould lines are absolutely killing me on these guys

[@vanthspiritwalker]

1) Square bases 2) Old Models 3) More models 4) Flanking Ok, now that you have highlighted the good bits, where are the downsides?

[@MrZen-hw2bd]

100% agree!

[@MrMxyzptlk5]

Just stumbled upon your channel while looking for old world content. So far I havent found anything I really liked, but the brief pseudo battle report you filmed seemed to be exactly what I wanted (abridged gameplay footage with a narration explaining the broad strokes of whats going on) Subscribed in hopes that yall get deeper into the Old World : )

[@PyromancerRift]

This game is a fantasy version of historical games, like a napoleonic war with orcs, skelettons and dark elfs in underwear. AOS's miniatures look cool, but it feels like 40k. This is bad because i don't want to play 2 games with almost the same rules. I want to feel like a general, and i want to feel the weight of my army. Instead of rushing for the objectives, even if it means i got killed, but win, i have to maneuver and pick my fights to kill because this is how you win. I never played it back in the days and i'm a firm believer that even the old models will look dope once painted with modern techniques.

[@gstellar96]

My problem is that people say AoS and 40k are the because they both use the same base system when if you actually play both games you'd understand there are very few similarities. It would be like me saying Conquest and TOW play the same because they're both rank and flank when that's simply not true. I don't mind fantasy players not like AoS but it does irk me when they feel the need to throw in a surface level generalization to justify it instead of "I just don't like it"

[@chrisdavidson2810]

Also the aesthetic of a well painted fantasy army just looks so amazing

[@hooliganblack832]

Ive been finding the idea that ToW is complicated a bit odd. I look at games of AoS and am baffled by miriad numberwang special rules. I think the complexity in ToW is minimal and in the core game as opposed to in the billion and a half special rules, strategies, formations, etc. Maybe I'm just old.

[@philipbowles5397]

I think there's a degree of inexperience - and probably of pretension - in the way people look at ranked combat games. Visually WFB (yes, I do insist on that as the acronym) looks like much more complex games, particularly historicals, and the 'rank and flank' label comes with expectations about changing formation (something that basically doesn't happen in WFB) and complex movement mechanics (which were previously basically ignored and are now altogether absent). When in fact the core gameplay is simply ramming blobs of models into each other and rolling dice and lacks complexity either mechanically or tactically.

[@hooliganblack832]

@@philipbowles5397 totally agree on all points... especially the WFB bit. It's only not 9th edition because that name got taken.

[@philipbowles5397]

@@hooliganblack832 It's not officially 9th Edition because it would scare newer players away by giving it an edition number. Since they're marketing wholly for nostalgia that may not matter, but it seems there was a major change in direction when they lost the original team, by which time the name was already published: it seems the original plan was to cater more to the Total War players (who, after all, were the reason the game came back), and it was advertised as featuring Kislev - suggesting a focus on underdeveloped factions rather than just a nostalgia trip - and as being heavily inspired by the 8th Edition ruleset. Instead what we got was a game based on 6th Edition (which is certainly mechanically the better choice) focused entirely on nostalgia for existing factions, and the marketing is myopically pointed at lapsed WFB players.

[@alg3249]

square bases and old models are the dream.

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Yeah! Old Boys rise again.

[@ashthornton1038]

I am glad you mentioned Kings of War because everything about it is better, its vastly cheaper (you only need 1 book to get started there is also a free "app" so you always have the updated rules and army lists for the entire game, you can use whatever models you like and make them look however you like and it is a lot simpler whilst still being a very tactical game and balanced. It is also from a more customer orientated company that genuinely care about their games and customers. i was a GW fanboy for nearly 30 years and i was devastated when they destroyed the Old World and to be honest i am insulted that they are bringing it back and trying to imply that they are doing it as a good thing for us that we should be grateful for after the fortune i spent on the original game and them just saying nope its gone, i still carried on playing for a bit but it wasn't the same. And as for the cost for sculpts that are older than my kids. Mantic also do a 3d printing vault where they release models for you to print, and they are actually models that you would use in your armies.

[@slavaukraini1991]

who in 2012 looks in a car, sees warhammer fantasy miniatures and steals them?? how unlucky is that

[@kevbrown3760]

Unless you are looking at end times, when GWs goal was to get you to get as many models on the table. I kind of feel like 3rd ed AOS also has a ton of models on the table. Ive only played a few TOW games, but I'm not fielding as many models as my last few AOS games. This is partly due to how two separate factions play, obviously some factions in either, will field waaay more models than others. Comparing Skaven AOS to Ogre AOS is fairly different.

[@light-wolfred741]

It is so cool that they brought the Old World stuff back but I do hope they update all the old sculpts. The game sounds like fun though

[@buckyohare9993]

Kiera mentioned KoW, I’m curious- do you enjoy that and how do you both feel about them rated against each other? I play KoW (badly) and much prefer Mantic’s rules and approach in most ways but I suppose out of curiosity what’s what’s you take?

[@GTrevise]

My main issue is that everything now seems to be on 25mm bases. So most old models will need to be rebased to be used

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Yeah, that is a bit annoying. I've been looking, and there are some good options out there, though. You can get movement trays that space the models apart correctly, so you don't need to rebade actual models. 😀

[@CesarIsaacPerez]

Watching you guys play reminded me that when I started college back in 1998 I had a demo game of Warhammer Fantasy. I didn't like it. It wasn't until 2015 with a demo of Age of Sigmar that I fell in love with Warhammer, and that opened the door to all sorts of Tabletop games for me.

[@Choom89]

Care to elaborate? I'm just wondering what was so different.

[@03dashk64]

Man the old models are the draw! They are so good. I much prefer them over the over-designed monopose AOS models!! But those modern prices for ancient models is….rough

[@philipbowles5397]

They've been doing it with Skaven and Beastmen for years before The Old World came along.

[@Galahax]

Yep, battle report. Do it. I do enjoy vids that have balance in them...the fact that one of you enjoys this and the other doesn't helps us make informed decisions because you call out what you do and don't like more naturally. Keep it goin.

[@ancientgraybear]

Wow, Broadsword's little heart got broken, stomped, and kicked out of the studio. 😂😂

[@greengoblinstudio905]

Agreed with Kiera, you need a set of models to reel you in I wasn't vibing with the Old World until I saw the Gnomes by Warp Miniatures Now I'm running GNOMES!!! as Chaos Dwarfs

[@Choom89]

Halflings might be coming

[@pwrlol]

This review pretty much sums my feelings up. I went ooooo old Fantasy dug out my old 5th edition Bretonian models which were unassembled from the boxed set (I collected Lizardmen) got them out looked at them for a bit. Then I put them away and have spent the week assembling and painting Cities of Sigmar models. I may at some point play a game with my old Skaven which are all ready to rumble then I might get the bug again but I can’t see myself collecting much until new more exciting models come out….. I must admit those foot knights for Betonians look cool so they might intice me! 😂

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

If those models aren't heavy enough for your liking then I would suggest using considerably older ones!

[@Grim-Crusader]

I'm 30 WHFB nerd. I am so glad it came back. It takes time to paint, time to play, time to learn but it is sooooooo much more rewarding. I do love 40k but WHFB is what started it all...

[@stonehorn4641]

I prefer the older sculpts. I absolutely love rank and flank games, and I really don’t play many skirmish games. Four games down, and I think the game is incredible. I played my Dwarfs twice, my Brets once, and Warriors of Chaos once. 30 years of this game, and I still love it as much as I did then. And I’m still playing them with the same friends. We’re all prepping for a tournament, and we all spent too much time rebasing old armies in my hobby room over the last month. In all I have 11 WHFB armies. 5 of them are from the main factions in the game, those are all being rebased. The rest will stay on originals for WHFB 5th, 6th, and 8th edition. And a little WAP.

[@memorandom7484]

Scalpers. Because that's who's actually managing to buy any of the releases.

[@BroadswordWargaming]

That is annoyingly accurate. I originally intended on Brets V TK, but could not get hold of a Bret box. I run a gaming store here in Ireland and I did not get a single Old World Model for the shop.. mad. And I was mad. Here is to hoping in the future!

[@Sakurajima616]

Just wait, and everything will be available the one or the other way. If you want to be angry at someone, then take GW. Producing limited amounts is now their business standard.

[@tripp9278]

PDF's and 3D printing my dude.

[@MrHyonD]

What's the issue with square models? I mean it looks way cleaner, and also allows for formations like in classic war :D

[@zedeyejoe]

Try adding magnetic basing to the figures. More heft and means movement trays are easy (just face mdf with steel paper). My armies are from the 1990's.

[@Mutzig79]

I've an original ork warriors regiment that my then house mate gave me back into 2008. I moved away shortly after, so only managed to build 2 orcs, and undercoated 1 never got round to playing fantasy, not 40k until this month! Maybe it's time to give building them a go!

[@theunion6024]

I love a good flank, you could almost say I’m a big flanker

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Don't we all!

[@ImrahilToChaos]

“That’s not even the only book you need”. Yeah, unlike every other GW game, where you need at least two and even more if there’s a supplement.

[@l0stndamned]

Interesting to see The square bases and lighter models are some of the things that make me happy to see old-world stuff as it makes them more useful for some of the other games I play. I can totally understand newer players being put-off by the bigger rulebooks, they weren't always reader-friendly.

[@Aurora07]

Building the models for ToW is a lot easier than the AoS kits, they can be a nightmare, why did they make them so complicated??

[@JimmyFellum-yj7wz]

My Bretonnia army finally is coming back! And let me say...this game is for metal miniatures not plastic. GW should produce them again.

[@BroadswordWargaming]

I agree! Give me all of my old 4th edition undead please!

[@frostedbutts4340]

They do. At least the GW webstore lists a bunch of models as being metal.

[@bobdole8830]

People that can memorise more than 2 pages of rules

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Haha. True

[@ciara7458]

That is not me ha

[@dietrichknauth9305]

Those Tomb King models were outdated and selling poorly back when GW decided to kill Warhammer Fantasy a decade ago. So OF COURSE their bright idea is to just rebox the same models and then wonder why no one wants to buy them now. Put out some refreshed models! How about having some armies and model kits in stock and available for sale when the game launches? The slow rollout is setting this game up for failure among anyone who doesn't already have a Warhammer Fantasy army to dust off.

[@darkfuture3291]

I love the game and I'm so glad it's back. When I had to move to 40k with their 360 degree firing archs, I thought it was stupid.

[@lonnyraye]

I love Old World. The game play is great, each army list is toned down to where it has some character but it is balanced better. I love that the models are more simple and easier to assemble. The 12th soldier in a block of 20 doesn't need intricate armor and purity seals, they are toys.

[@thoughtengine]

Toys that suck royally, were never that good when they were originally designed, and are now being brought out as nostalgia bait for a ridiculous premium price as if they did have that intricate armour and purity seals anyway. Reaper Bones and Eureka Minis have perfectly simple skeletons, at least; and significantly cheaper.

[@vincegamer]

Pricing should not be higher than eBay for the same figs. But other than that, I'd be happy to play

[@cats_like_felix]

Taking the time to enjoy putting together and painting lots of models is the main appeal to me, but I guess it's not for everyone. Having some chill tunes on in the background and needing only low-brain time during the repetition is my idea of an enjoyable hobby resulting in painted figures and a wholesome sense of accomplishment. I'm not sure who these folks are but my overall take away was that TOW isn't for people who don't like tabletop war games, which is somethin', I guess.

[@BroadswordWargaming]

I think everyone enjoys different aspects. If you have the time to sit and chill, it's great. I like to put on Star Trek or Stargate, something I don't have to pay much attention too. I do love seeing the ranks come together!

[@M1tZk1]

I've got 1500 points of Chaos Knights, 1500 points of Dwarves and something over 10.000 points of Dark Elves which sadly won't get much support in the old world. -.- I was really hyped for the Old World, but now I have to wait until the book comes back in stock.

[@PrzybyszzMatplanety]

They released Dark Elves along with Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms, Lizardmen and Skaven as free supplements on their site.

[@M1tZk1]

@@PrzybyszzMatplanety noice. I'll give it a look, yet I still don't have the core rules book.

[@RolandoRatas]

nonsense get painting a Vampire Counts army right now !

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Oh yes please! The best :)

[@gordonscott1441]

Love the dynamic between you guys, hope to see more of you both

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Thanks! 😀

[@siclarke82]

You can literally see the point where Ciara internally goes "Oh FFS" after "It's like Kings of War, but more complicated!" 😂

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Haha. It's fun to mess with her.. especially when its true! 😄

[@louismcleod6595]

i could be wrong but the dwarf models look like they are on 20mm bases whereas in TOW they are now on 25 mm bases

[@BroadswordWargaming]

Yeah, that's correct. They all got rebased, I just don't have any way to rebase (yet). Think I'll go for the movement tray slots, as opposed to actually rebasing them. 😀

[@louismcleod6595]

@@BroadswordWargaming yeah that is what I have done it’s super easy as I still play 8th and it’s very satisfying having them slot in them don’t move around as much either

[@commonman4413]

Long ago when I started i looked at 40k and fantasy. I chose fantasy because I preferred the mechanics over 40k's. A few years back i was looking to come back in and a guy was explaining Age of Sigmar to me. I wS interested in rejoining but his description really turned me off. Now I am interested in this Old World.

[@coureurdesbois6754]

Wanted to play as a kid. Never played. Played my first game last week. I really love it, even compared to AOS and 40K. Regarding the models : if you don't like oldhammer, just play with 3rd party or AOS models with square bases. I'm of the opinion that 90's sculpts have charm.

[@curticusmaximus]

The basic tomb king troops are some of the worst looking models in the game lol not really a great thing to go off of

[@Xaltotun]

Honestly the old/"new" tomb kings models are not my preferred style. So I am going Vampire Counts. Those old dwarves do look amazing though.

[@TehCorbzor]

I'm not a fan of rank'n'flank, especially not at 28mm, I also never played old fantasy hammer, so I knew this wasn't for me. I'm happy though for people who wanted this.

[@philipbowles5397]

To be honest calling Warhammer 'rank and flank' is a bit misleading, and it's not really what the game was ever intended to be - when it was current there was no AoS to compare it to and the distinction wasn't very relevant as a result. It tended not to be called 'rank and flank' in its time. As you say, 28 mm is a horrible scale for a true rank and flank because changing formations is unutterably tedious. Warhammer, being based on '50s historical rulesets, always had rules for changing formations of varying complexity and they nearly all went completely unused - the new edition barely has them at all. Terrain features that constrained movement or required changes in formation had rules but were generally eschewed. The actual impact of ranks was reduced to a combat modifier, and in some editions some of the best-performing armies barely engaged with the rank system at all (Wood Elves, Lizardmen, Beastmen). In no 'true' rank and flank should ranked gameplay be optional, let alone a potential disadvantage. In general the game plays like a less fluid version of the Total War incarnation, if Total War battlefields were much smaller and with less terrain. Gameplay is mostly 'point and click' with big blocks running headlong into one another, and then rolling up the flank of remaining units if victorious. Again as a limitation of the scale there just isn't the space for real manoeuvring. I think calling it a 'rank and flank' brings misleading implications, both positive and negative. It is far less fiddly and has less movement complexity (and, by and large, less flanking) than that implies, but by the same token it's also tactically more shallow - deployment and the first turn take thinking ahead, but mostly because the rest of the game largely plays on autopilot.

[@billdoor1569]

me, its for me, when they killed off Fantasy and replaced it with AOS I just was not interested in the lore and it is the lore that makes me want to play the game, now old world is back I am interested again.

[@TheBayru]

"I hate flanking" - "Frontally charges a bunch of tanky dwarves with the light cav" ... auch ... you might not want to give her wood elves ... Chaos warriors or Dark elves maybe?

[@Zorpazorp]

Ah man I forgot about the great theft of 2012, bloody bastards

[@Dirt1061]

One of my issues with it is there are a ton of “better/modern/simpler” versions of this game. Conquest: Last Argument of Kings seems to be the biggest alternative, amazing looking models and really interesting mechanics for a significantly lower price.