I Told My Brothers Fiancee That "We Don't Owe Her A Family!" r/Relationships

[@Deedoof]

Second story, the step dad sounds really creepy. Asking to adopt OP's daughter SIX times with her clearly not wanting that relationship? Also telling OP that the fiancé needs to f off? OP needs to take off the gloves and protect his daughter better.

[@peterhobson3262]

I'm trying to figure out sister's comment that OP's gloating would make Rosie's relationship with John and ex harder. Harder in what way? Rosie has made it clear that OP is her dad, not John. That would be a harder blow to John's ego than anything OP might say.

[@Deedoof]

@@peterhobson3262 Stepdad is delusional, she turned down adoption 6 times. Anything more than once is invasive and inappropriate.

[@myounakami]

@@peterhobson3262 I'll bet that the sister's thinking the mom/ex might start giving Rosie a hard time or trying to guilt her for about choosing OP over John once the guy starts complaining about OP 'winning' since I can only assume the ex hasn't really tried to curb John parental alienation attempts much, if at all, and may very well side with John over her own daughter and pressure her into including John too.

[@AlienoidGamer]

Not creepy, just really hates the bio dad. Tried to do everything possible to one-up him. The daughter didn't approve of this in any form.

[@swearimnotarobot3746]

Yeah. Sounds like parental alienation. The dad should document everything and be prepared for whatever comes next.

[@gelasiakidd8076]

Nico is weirdly manipulative in this. He literally used the idea that he came with a ready made family as part of the hook to get Jenny to marry him, and then controlled the dialogue passed between the family and Jenny. I honestly think Jenny, while she may need therapy, does NOT need Nico, if he can divide and conquer so well and then get offended when the very tactic he used as an idea to convince her he was the one, being disproven, is enough for her to decide he might not be the one. You reap what you sow.

[@agentzapdos4960]

She's a former foster kid. Statistically speaking, she's going to end up homeless, doing sex work, addicted to drugs, repeatedly victimized sexually, selling drugs, and/or in an abusive relationship.

[@chromaticHermit]

​@@agentzapdos4960really opens your eyes to how we fail our most vulnerable population. No one deserves such things.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Agreed Nico is the villain

[@lifewithlee6298]

He lied 🤥 to her , and he couldn’t except she wouldn’t change her mind

[@jenniferjoseph4401]

Agreed. I think it's strange that Nico has even brought her to his family for 2 years, and they are still having a problem finding a relational ground. TWO YEARS!! It's almost cruel of Nico to keep bringing her without a mutual plan beforehand, former foster kid or not. Like prompts for Jenny to bond with the family - games for the sister, cooking for mom, books for dad, etc... just normal things you do during a serious relationship to help your partner get in good graces or not bring up bad times accidently. IDK, it seems kinda sadistic of him almost like he likes the drama and control? I can't think of another reason to do this for that long.

[@owl7072]

Story 2: "You shouldn't be so petty" yet you both were fine with doing it yourself for years. It's not surprising she picked Op when he was the only civil one who thought about her.

[@Vipre-]

Don't you know the golden rule of aholes, "It's only wrong when you do it."

[@williamfleming2918]

In the second story, the line, 'You will lose both of them to me some day", shows what a nasty piece of work John is. He is a piece of crap and the ex is too.

[@juliearmfield2634]

John was a very manipulative selfish entitled a whole from the start. He doesn't even deserve to be at the wedding in my opinion let alone walk her down the aisle

[@Sherwoody]

That line from John kind of explains some of his actions. Someone took his wife and her kids, so he was going to take someone else’s. In the end, all he is left with is an AP spouse. If she cheated on her first husband, she might even do it him.

[@katta309]

I mean he might just as well cheat on her also as they both are cheaters

[@Ivy94F]

Maybe he’s mad that his sperm is low and taking out on OP. Lol.

[@penelopelane5753]

Story 1: this poor woman is not ready for a relationship, let alone marriage. She’s clearly not learned how to deal with her childhood traumas. More than likely, she’s decided her coping mechanism is to find a ready made family that she never had. I question whether it’s more about the family and less about the fiancée at this point (or really ever), she’s that desperate for a family bond that she has NO CLUE what it’s like or what it takes. I actually find this super sad and somewhat tragic.

[@kaykay8855]

Story 2: stepdad played a stupid game and got his prize. Op wasn’t petty, he told the truth Rosie doesn’t see him as a father figure.

[@mbyerly9680]

The spermless wonder ended up with a cheating ho and a stepdaughter who dislikes him. Big victory there.

[@ShaSha239]

Nobody is saying that it’s wrong for her to want to search for the family she never had. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s the way she’s going about it that’s unusual, and that’s what people are taking issue with. You can’t just snap your fingers and expect everybody to act as if they’ve known you since birth. It’s something you have to develop naturally, which takes time and effort while respecting boundaries. She’s not respecting them at all, and that’s the problem.

[@itsjustmaddisen]

It's the trying to force a bond with people who aren't comfortable with it clearly and I wouldn't want to have a relationship like that either. If my stepdad acted like that and feeling entitled to be my family I would have never bonded with him.

[@runaasmr]

2 years is a lot of time to dangle the carrot in front of her. I had people I have known for way less time and accepted them because acceptance is about choosing to try to accept them.

[@ZoeAlleyne]

​@runaasmr Yes but they have never been allowed to do it at a pace they are comfortable with. She keeps pushing over boundaries which makes them push her back and keep her at a distance.

[@Alexander21025]

People should be able to read between the lines. The fiancee is a bit pushy, but not asking for much. She wants to be included into family trips, discussions which is very normal. Asking OP to be maid of honor is reasonable. The OP is broken, she felt she needed to "earn" her stepdad's love and is still going through issues of not having her bio dad's love. She wants Jenny to "earn" love too. That shows this is a toxic family with some major personal issues. Jenny may not be going on the right way, but OP is being mean and cruel on purpose. She is gatekeeping her family.

[@ShaSha239]

@@runaasmr OP mentioned that she had either confided in the fiancé with the news of her miscarriage or the brother, and she’s just not respecting the boundaries that are being set up around that certain topic, as well as other sensitive subjects. That’s kind of what’s giving them pause, and rightfully so.

[@Ospyro3em]

There's something about the update to the first story that doesn't sit right with me- OP says her boyfriend had an "uncharacteristic moment of insanity and went off at Jenny". Now, it's not covered in this video, but someone in the comments asked what this moment of insanity entailed. OP admitted he hadn't shouted or anything like that, he had just calmly asked Jenny why she expected to get so much out of the relationship without putting anything in, or something like that. When someone asked her why this deserved OP dragging BF out of the room and scolding him, she just says it's because normally he doesn't get involved and is quiet. Why did she go off on her BF when it sounds like he was the only one tackling this issue logically and calmly? Maybe it's just me, but it says something about the way OP is with her BF. Ultimately, Nico is probably the main AH in this story, but the way OP treated her own BF wasn't cool.

[@jodieg6318]

Screams "Rules for thee but not for me" mindset to my mind at least.

[@MaryTheresa1986]

​@@jodieg6318Same here, and I hope OP's boyfriend dumps her. If she doesn't want his input, why bring him to mediation in the first place? She needs to get over herself.

[@agentzapdos4960]

If a kid is born into an abusive or broken home, or winds up adopted or in foster care, it would literally be a better fate to have been aborted.

[@Ospyro3em]

@agentzapdos4960 that's a bit of an extreme take. While I agree that being thrown into these situations can result in a very bad childhood, there is always a chance to leave and find a new, better family and people later in life who will support you. Your comment implies these people are completely beyond hope.

[@agentzapdos4960]

@@Ospyro3em I am a former foster kid. We are beyond hope. Statistically speaking, I'm actually on the more fortunate end., merely being so mentally fucked up that I can never hold down a job, but still capable enough to wipe my own ass and not blow my meager government handouts on bullshit. Most foster kids who age out of the system end up homeless, doing sex work, selling and/or addicted to drugs, committing suicide, in prison, in a gang, in abusive relationships, or trafficked. Usually multiple of these.

[@abelink9229]

Story 1: I'm really used to hearing "don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm", and I'm really surprised that I don't hear that in this story. OP doesn't owe Jenny. Distant relations don't have to endure discomfort of having their boundaries stomped just because "poor" Jenny cannot communicate properly. It's her problem, and secondly her fiance's problem. It's not on OP to pick the ball they themselves dropped.

[@malayshamorgan3918]

Oh boy so nico essentially fed into an orphans unrealistic expectations of what a family is supposed to be like and it backfired on him

[@Ivy94F]

When you word it like that, it makes more sense. Some ppl are saying he did it on purpose, but I find that a little cynical. I believe he loves this woman and was excited to pitch her the image of the happy life they would have together. I don’t think he was aware of what he was doing, or how she would overzealously react to it, and when he did, he just thought it would ‘work itself out.’ I wonder how he would’ve reacted if it was said the way you said it. Lol.

[@KSull6736]

@@Ivy94Fyea it sounds like nico is not equipped to deal with a partner with trauma and isn’t understanding enough.

[@Mitzthatonekid]

What op said about having to be born with a family really really upset me- like bro. No. No.

[@Ax-xo4ux]

@@Mitzthatonekidsat wrong with me too Like- sometimes it’s not who you’re born to Found family made of friends and lovers is just as important. I’d vote ESH OP for their comments and clear attitude issue Nico for not handling his partner well Jenny for going over boundaries set The rest of the fam for not really trying to get to know Jenny

[@elizabethescalante8114]

​​@@Ax-xo4ux Right?! It's why I half agree with Alastor in Hazbin Hotel when he sang " Sadly, there are times a birth parent (or, in this case, a birth family) is a dud. They say the family you choose is better."

[@MasterBuilderDragon]

Story 2: Massive NTA. Step parents who were previously affair partners deserve nothing from the kids but a giant middle finger.

[@SpaceJunk07]

Second Story: Does it skeeves anyone else out that John said “I’ll have them both” ??? He doesn’t see either women as people. Just objects to one up OP.

[@AndyyWithAY]

Last story NTA. These stepparents who keep trying to shoehorn a relationship are exhausting. Let the stepkid take the lead. She never liked him, he made their rocky relationship infinitely worse over the years. He just needs to take the L at this point. FAFO.

[@madambutterfly1997]

What exactly did John do for Rosie? Aside from try to turn her against OP REPEATEDLY. As far as her upbringing is concerned, I can’t say that he did much for her. Or at least nothing worth keeping note of.

[@johnbradbury8610]

OP is an idiot for worrying about John's feelings.

[@Vipre-]

@@johnbradbury8610 OP doesn't give a rat's ass about John's feelings, he's worried about how what he did will blow back on his daughter.

[@johnbradbury8610]

@@Vipre- Then why is he asking AITA as if being mean to john would make him an AH.

[@rosemaryjones5550]

@@johnbradbury8610 he is asking if the blowback Rosie might feel makes him the a**hole

[@Vipre-]

@@johnbradbury8610 Because being mean to John has the potential to hurt his daughter. He's asking if risking damaging her relationship with them by gloating and then not apologizing makes him an ah. He doesn't care about John, he cares he might be making Rosie's life harder. I personally think he's overthinking it, she already knows what an ass John is and nothing OP does is going to change anything.

[@maurer3d]

Story 2: NTA, you were not gloating you were just telling him how it is. He could have had an amazing step-father relationship with her, but instead tried to brainwash her. Kids are smarter than most people think and pick up on this crap. As far as I am concerned him and her mom are lucky if they were invited as guests.

[@michamocha]

Story 1: It really just sounds like Jenny already made up a family in her head and she wants Op and the others to stick to a script no one agree to. You can't really just slide yourself into an already established relationship with a friend. It takes time to truly engrave yourself into it to reach the kind of intimacy that Jenny is craving from them. This isn't something simple talking or family meetings can fix. I really think Jenny needs therapy to work out some things out. Op is NTA but softly, Jenny is.

[@RJLiams]

Sounds more like Nico sold her a lie. Also, I don't know why the bf was there at all. Though it's clear his involvement only made the situation worse.

[@BaeBunni]

@@RJLiams I would believe both. if she is bouncing around foster care she probably imagines a real family being a lot better and more accepting of her and nico probably told her "yea they will accept you immediately"

[@agentzapdos4960]

Foster kids aren't really capable of having normal, healthy relationships. I was one.

[@Ashbrash1998]

​@agentzapdos4960 Therapy can help, it doesn't mean it's the end of everything.

[@jacobsmith-hi6ey]

@@agentzapdos4960I have 4 fosters with loving families. The system doesn't work for everyone, but it can work for some.

[@bangeryun94]

Being in the foster system can deprive someone of social skills and queues. She doesn't know how to read a room. I hope the family can help her through that.

[@dm9078]

One of the commentators brought up the idea that Nico may have sold her on the idea of family and that was her primary interest. Turns out it was correct. I feel for Nico but it is better that he found out now. and OP was NTA. Had she not said what she did this situation would have continued to fester.

[@WabbitHunter68]

Nico is the villain in this.

[@aluralovell6829]

Why are we feeling for Nico again? Is is normal to feel for the party that actively lied and tried to manipulate the situation? It's weird how people keep trying to vilify Jenny when Nico straight admired to lying to her and hoping his family would cover for his lie 🤦🏾

[@snafubar5491]

I feel for Jenny. Then again, alot better for her to find out how manipulative Nico and sister and family are now than later. She was the one lied to.....by Nico.....more than once. Gaslighted the crap outta her. And just 'forgot' to mention what he told her about 'slot right in family' when his family complained??? Gaslighted family, too. Remember, he 'talked to her', twice even. But what did he really say to her??? You think he is the victim here??? Ohh Please. And OP issa major AH here for several reasons. Would love to hear what she really said to Jenny......if she would tell the truth. Her inability to see past her own nose she is looking down at Jenny to berate her while playing the victim like her brother (I know how she feels, I had a step-dad) to gain sympathy/play victim. Wait??? Where have we seen behavior like that before from this family??? Again, Ohh Please. The whole thing was rotten from the start thanks to Nico. I hope she RUNS!!!

[@aikikaname6508]

@@snafubar5491I’m sorry, Nico is manipulative but OP isn’t. She tried to politely push Jenny back for TWO YEARS until she snapped. That level of neediness and boundary stomping us going to grate on someone. It’s Nicos girl so she wanted him to be the main mediator, and should have really given him a ‘final warning’ before having a serious talk herself. But that doesn’t make her a major AH, just someone who should have handled it better.

[@johnbradbury8610]

@@WabbitHunter68 Exactly, he knew the truth, and he tried to manipulate his family. Even now he's willing to cut off his family for Jenny, who is also a manipulative AH. Nico and Jenny deserve each other.

[@chamab.6800]

Story 2: So John didn’t want to take care of his ex wife’s kids because they weren’t his but wants Rosie who also isn’t his? Smh

[@chamab.6800]

Story 1: I low key feel like Nico played on Jenny’s emotional deficit. He knew she had trauma and was desperate for family and he used his family as a selling point to marry him. While she may have overstepped… it wasn’t her fault. She was encouraged by Nico. So for him to act like a martyr… like he didn’t know his family was her motivation was disingenuous. He threw her under the bus. He deserves more of the blame than he got. But family is going to excuse him because at the end of the day that’s his family and not hers.

[@KSull6736]

And nico was so not understanding of Jenny wanting his family just as much as she wants him. Like clearly Jenny just has mental issues and he’s not being understanding or trying to work through it at all.

[@AndyyWithAY]

The worst thing you can do to foster a connection is try to force a connection. Even if she is married to their family member and she's technically family, doesn't mean they will like her. I feel for Jenny in a way, but she's still an AH. An Nico is a bigger AH for not trying to talk to her before. OP isn't the AH, but Nico and Jenny are

[@tallyp.7643]

Something tells me that she would end up walking around the family homes, replacing every picture that doesn't have her in it with ones that include her. It's like she's trying to re-write the history of this family and their relationships to act like she's always belonged. Something weird about it.

[@mbyerly9680]

Redditor comment: OP's brother is not at fault for his fiancé's behavior because he's not a therapist yet OP is to blame because she's not acting like a therapist in her comment to her future SIL. Ooooookay. Some Redditors make my brain hurt.

[@aylanae4797]

Don't they😂

[@ZoeAlleyne]

Yes! I had the same reaction. Nico isnt a therapist but OP has to have the patience to have her boundaries stomped on and take it with an inhuman amount of patience or she "lacks empathy". She had empathy out the wazoo, she ran out of PATIENCE. Which is something we all only have in limited supply.

[@TheBlueDsc]

Reddit has a bad habit of "You didn't react to this in the same way as a 30 year Therapist veteran. You're obviously the AH."

[@jodieg6318]

Story 1: there was another comment from OP when someone asked for info on what that moment of insanity was from her boyfriend that she scolded him so much for. It was was a harsh comment the boyfriend made but it was calm, sincere, and using the mediator they way they agreed. So yeah, OP has some "rules for thee but not for me" going on. So im more ready to give Jenny the benefit of the doubt rather than OP.

[@Kris-wo4pj]

the whole family has issues. apparently not following a script is an issue for all of them. since the bf script is to just be quiet and look nice while the grown ups do the talking. idk why he was even there.

[@jodieg6318]

@@Kris-wo4pj becuase I'm not feeling Particularly generous tonight, I suspect becuase OP would concider her boyfriend as part of the family but not her SIL becuause 'rules for thee but not for me'.

[@namenloses95]

@@jodieg6318according to her own comment the SIL wanted the BF there

[@Callimo]

I wouldn't actually. Jenny's been pushing boundaries for quite a while. And, if you listen to the update, it seems that OP's brother has been nannering in her ear about his family being the family Jenny needs, so she just oversteps even after being told multiple times by multiple family members that she's going too far. I think when folks have gone through a lot of shit, people tend to give them a lot of benefit of the doubt. But people seem to forget that the last straw isn't the only straw. OP's comment came after months of Jenny overstepping. And it was OP's brother's responsibility to tell his fiancée what was up. But he just kinda half assed it. And Jenny did admit that she only got with Nico because of his big family.

[@ditzyhere3138]

@@Callimo Honestly I don't really trust this story from OP's perspective. Seems like OP doesn't like Jenny for whatever reason and is hypersensitive to someone that's going to be part of your family making the effort to be closer to your family. The fact that she keeps harping on Jenny being from the foster system makes me sus.

[@zoraxseven6522]

It’s like ppl forget ESH is a voting option. That was DEFINITELY a ESH moment.

[@Ax-xo4ux]

Ikr! Like- ESH exists and is applicable! Op was an AH by saying that without clarifying, I don’t blame them for snapping tho Nico is an AH for not talking to Jenny and selling her on the idea of “ready made family” Jenny’s the AH for stomping boundaries and pushing

[@noneedtoknow07]

So if someone marries into a family they should be automatically treated as if they always been there? We have seen enough boundary pushing step-parents stories where they are the asshole because they wouldn't stay back an let things form organically. This isn't all that different. Relationships go both ways, and she was given plenty of hints and outright told don't call the parents that and I don't want to talk about this. She continued on anyways.

[@AngelaMerici12]

Calling people mom and dad it's just too much overstepping.

[@RyuNekohime]

While the comment was harsh? Anyone can get a bit harsh when pushed too far for too long. I doubt OP thought the wording through in the heat of the moment. I sympathize with Jenny’s situation, I do, but I still don’t think OP is the A-hole. A relationship usually has to be built and it’s been talked about for a long time it seems and nothing has changed or worked. OP doesn’t owe intimate details to someone they’re not willing to talk about it with. I think op could explain the actual meaning to Jenny and Nico, just to put it into context, but still NTA.

[@ElleD308]

Yeah, they go both ways but this OP is a fucking asshole that thinks that because she had a bad father it gives her the authority to decide how other people should feel about wanting a family. Also, it's been like 2 years, She should've had the spine to explain to her what was going on and that it would be better to go slowly She sounds jealous, entitled, and bitter

[@johnbradbury8610]

Even at the end, OP is still apologizing. Jenny used Nico for a family. Jenny is a huge AH. Nico is a major dumbass for still trying to be with her after she made it clear that she doesn't care about him. Nico and Jenny deserve each other.

[@snakesandstones4252]

​@johnbradbury8610 lmao more like Nico took her past trauma, yearning for a family, and unrealistic expectations of how a family worked and operated (how is she supposed to know that?) And fed into it, used it as part of his hook to get her to marry him, and controlled the dialogue between her and his family. Nico's the asshole here, he's the one who built up those expectations despite fully knowing better.

[@NerdilyDone]

OP 1 was not TA for telling someone a fact: you really shouldn't invite yourself to stuff, no matter how close you are to someone.

[@reljapopovic]

story 2. OP should talk to daughter and tell her and fiance everything stepfather said. gloves off, she's not underaged and living under mom's custody. She's adult now, and deserves to know everything. let her decide about future relationship with mom and stepfather.

[@juliearmfield2634]

Story 1. This is and Incredibly sad story all around and I think a a lot of therapy is needed. One thing is for sure Jenny and Nico are not compatible at all and they are better off without each other

[@HobieInTheBox]

Story 1: I don't think we took away the same thing from the end of this story. Nico wasn't noping out?? He created this situation in the first place. Whether he thought he was honestly selling her this dream, or lying about it to make her feel better, it's his fault. And also for not dealing with the consequences properly. Everyone has preferences for a relationship, and if Jennie's is that she wants a family, so be it. There are plenty fish in the sea with similar preferences. Jennie doesn't know what it's like to have a family, her shoe horning might've been genuine, yet misguided, attempts at building relationships. Maybe she was indeed using the same tactics she used to build friendships by building family relations, and it didn't work. Or maybe, it's just Nico's and OPs family. And this relationship won't work out. We've seen it happen before.

[@Joffar]

Nico dodged a massive, crazy bullet. Good on his family for seeing through crazy.

[@LordBison98]

Story 2: "You should not be petty!!" but- ex's husband is allowed to be petty?? Double standards I see. But I'd suggest to ask the court for a restraining order against ex's husband for Rosie. I feel like this situation can get worse.

[@mayfields5092]

think people are ignoring how nico sold the family as one that would accept her. he lied and hoped she wouldn’t care when it blew up in his face

[@davidlionheart2438]

Story 2 - John's greatest crime is trying to involve Rosie in the horror of accountancy.

[@britnicox3929]

1: really I think Jenny needs some therapy before she’ll be able to be in a good relationship with someone because family seems to be the most important thing that she’s looking for, not a partner.

[@rf159a]

Story 2: I'm surprised that OP still has a tongue after he has bitten it so many times.

[@jeanettemartinez5715]

1st story: they have been together for two years and they didn’t try to have a relationship with her? Chitchat, go to lunch or something, get to know her, she was clearly trying to get to know them. Instead of getting to know her they call her pushy for wanting to get to know them.

[@Treveyon2010]

Trying to force someone to talk about their sex life with you after being told no repeatedly IS PUSHY.

[@catT5236]

@jeanettemartinez5715 I agree with you, this exactly what I thought. Why is it all on Jenny to build these bonds? It's been two years, they actually SHOULD be fairly close by now, instead it just seems like the whole family is ostracising her.

[@nicoleposada7916]

She's looking for the family she never got, not a relationship or to have her own family

[@Ax-xo4ux]

They did try- but Jenny refused to build that relationship with them. Instead she jumped in and immediately tried to be “in the family” My step dad let me go at my own pace when he joined the family. Everyone could’ve handled it better but Jenny was the instigator

[@jeanettemartinez5715]

@@Ax-xo4ux honestly it was her boyfriend’s fault. Apparently he sold her the idea his family could be a ready family to slip into, so she asked as such and everyone kept telling her to back off. And again after 2 years nobody really tried.

[@onepieceisking5493]

I agree, Jenny NEEDS to get professional help. It's not cool nor good that she's willing to break up if she doesn't get the family she wants. She needs professional help or else she's going to keep getting the same result over and over again.

[@ZoeAlleyne]

Story 1, a few minutes in only but this seems like a situation of Nico's making. He didnt set boundaries, he didnt talk to her, he hoped it would go away and then when someone snaps at her he blames them. Edit: "YTA for not having empathy" and where is yours? Nico isnt a therapist and he cant fix it...but OP is supoosed to have ETERNAL patience? They are supposed to be polite when made uncomfortable over and over amd over again? When they have brought it up to Jenny and brought it up to Nico? Sure, Jenny has had a shit life, but that does not mean that everyday people are responsible for fixing them, for putting up with more than what THEY can take to ease the wounds of another person. That isnt empathy, it is a completely unrealistic burden that will eat away at the relationship and cause long term resentment.

[@gxr7777]

No, No, No, if you ignore bad behavior it will only get worse.

[@keijogirl]

Jenny really does have to wake up one day and realize that it’s not instant like in movies. I don’t know that Nico sold her on a package deal family, I think she latched onto “you’ll fit right in, don’t worry” that way. I think she needs therapy for that part, I don’t think the family disliked her save for that. If she had chilled out, they could have grown organically.

[@NottyAries]

S1: I have 3 sisters and 2 brothers. Ice never treated ANY of their SOs this way. Two years and engaged but they don't want to do trips, shopping, etc with her. OP and her family are all AH.

[@paulchaudoir190]

That one comment. All John got was a hand me down wife. DAMN

[@jodieg6318]

Jenny's neediness and entitlement is obvious but the brother is the biggest asshole here for never having a talk with her about it. Jenny either doesn't have the mental tools and language ro understand or brother has been using his family as a way to hook Jenny into a relationship. But all that said I have to say that OP sounds like a rather nasty person; essentially after that family meeting all I heard from OP is "when I say something incredibly wounding it's just brutal honesty but when someone else says something harsh but sincere and calmly it's insanity!" And honestly its making me give Jenny rather than OP the benefit of the doubt.

[@Ashbrash1998]

Idk, Jenny kept insisting on talking about sexual experiences despite being told multiple times not to.

[@ditzyhere3138]

And from what I'm reading she apparently scolded her bf for talking during the mediation, not because he said anything harsh, but because *he talked at all and wasn't being quiet.* I can't even trust that Jenny is actually being entitled or the efforts she's made to get close to the family was blown out of proportion by OP to make her seem like less of a bad guy.

[@MasterBuilderDragon]

Story 1: I just feel awful for Jenny. She just wants something that everyone deserves but her fiancé isn’t properly communicating with her and acting nuts and his family is acting like they’re too good for her. I can understand her being pushy, but she didn’t have a way to be taught boundaries before this and they should’ve talked to her about that sooner. I know relationships take time to develop, but for Pete’s sake, it’s been two years! That’s not enough time for even a friendship? The problem clearly isn’t the amount of time, the problem is they’re too stuck up to try to bond with her. I hope she gets away from this whole situation and finds the family she deserves.

[@seankeller1560]

The problem i have with the word empathy. Is this growing belief that you have to be an everlasting doormat to anyone with a sob story. You are never allowed to reach a breaking point. If you do regardless of the reason you are at fault

[@BohemianScandalous]

Story one update: from the initial story I instantly though “it seems like she’s less interested in the brother than she is in the brother’s family” and lo and behold I was right. I feel sorry for the brother. He was able to give everything away for her so that she could be his sole family, but all she wanted was to insert herself into his. No wonder OP felt so off-put by brother’s fiancée. Even if you can’t put it into words there is a horrible disgusting feeling you get when people try to insert themselves in your lives. It’s what happened to me when my parents divorced and they kept trying to push their new partners into my life. While nothing may seem “mean” on the surface it’s so so skeevy.

[@zerobolt9506]

Don't feel sorry for him, I haven't gotten that far yet in Mark's telling, but I heard this one on another KZbin channel yesterday (forgot who exactly) but he lied to both his family & Jenny telling them he'll talk to her & tell her that his family is hers, he did all that just to have her, he's an AH cause he made this mess by enabling Jenny instead of helping her make a connection with his family, he got what he deserves following what I know of the story.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@zerobolt9506 that's true on nico

[@teacheschem]

@@zerobolt9506He didn’t tell her to be pushy though. He did speak to her once or twice. They also gave her signals and she ignored them.

[@teacheschem]

Jenny is embarrassing!!

[@rachaelvaughan1017]

I have to disagree because Nico essentially sold to Jenny the whole family and not just him, and he knew that she wanted to be a part of a family. How do you think Jenny feels having no family at all and having that sole crushing experience of being discarded and rejected by another family (it's bad enough her parents weren't their for whatever reason and then being in the system her entire life). My situation is different because my dad died, and obviously, it's a difficult subject however I'm glad my mom has found someone and I'm happy for her but he doesnt replace my dad and he knows that (setting boundaries and therapy especially when going through a transitional process like a divorce or death is necessary)

[@sarahloveless1726]

BOTH of these stories are products of people that follow a golden reddit rule:DON'T👏FORCE👏A👏RELATIONSHIP👏

[@Aurummorituri]

First story NTA. OP is a boss for enforcing her boundaries and calling out the entitled behavior. Jenny sounds insufferable inserting herself into everything including private matters despite repeated requests to stop. She needed a blowup. Also, Nico is a piece of work. What “talking” has he done to get her stop or get her help? It’s like he’s pawning off this girl on the rest of his family to involve and take care of without their input or any attempt at a deeper relationship. For all the cheeseheads in the comments saying it’s been years and OP should have done more, you do realize someone overly pushy and entitled from Day 1 is someone you never end up connected to?😂

[@m.o.4240]

Op nta on the first jenny sounded entitled to their family and refused to admit any accountability. She is responsible for working through trauma not another family and she basically used nico for one.

[@brendanmurphy1074]

Thanks for the stories Mark! Dont have twitter,but fyi its sunday afternoon here in New Zealand, and I'm in the kitchen, baking cookies and cake to fill the tins for the week. On a marathon of your stories as im cooking. Keep up the good work!

[@VesnaVK]

Story 1: she was NOT shoehorning. She was behaving as Nico told her to. She was right to leave him for the kind of fiance she deserves.

[@chamab.6800]

I low key feel like he played on her emotional deficit. He knew she had trauma and was desperate for family and he used his family as a selling point to marry him. While she may have overstepped… it wasn’t her fault. She was encouraged by Nico. So for him to act like a martyr… like he didn’t know his family was her motivation was disingenuous. He threw her under the bus. He deserves more of the blame than he got. But family is going to excuse him because at the end of the day that’s his family and not hers.

[@VesnaVK]

@@chamab.6800 completely.

[@thed165]

Regardless of Nico, his family told her to stop what she was doing repeatedly and she didn’t…that’s shoehorning.

[@historictruecrime5119]

Second story, OP didn’t go far enough. That d-bag needs to be put in his place.

[@slytherinlibrarian3501]

Damn... the first time we've seen practical application of the Reddit adage, 'you marry your partner, you marry their family,' reddit went, 'fuck that, no you don't.'

[@sherrygibbs7547]

A lifetime ago, when I was young and naive, I was dating a guy that was hooked on drugs and alcohol....among other personality faults. One evening he invited some of us to "go to a party." There was absolutely NOTHING, not even a TV set to watch, while boyfriend and this guy went into the bedroom. We sat there for about 45 min, before I went to the bedroom door and told BF we were leaving. He came out of the room, higher than a kite & refused to let us leave. He actually punched out at the wall, nearly missing my head. It turns out this stranger had no friends and "hired" my BF and us, to "give him a party," where BFs payment was drugs. It really and truly sucks to be pimped out and used, to someone or some people who is/are "lacking." I still feel huge resentment to that situation, to this day. Niko should have had a better conversation with Jenny. And, Jenny needs a lot of help. She may never, ever have a true, loving relationship with ANYONE, until she stops using people to satisfy her needs.

[@TsukiKageTora]

Story 1: no one likes an annoying leech, let alone one that invites themselves on someone else’s plans. Nico did his fiancé a disservice by not talking to her and setting boundaries when his family told her about her boundary stomping. That is what lead to OP snapping at her the way she did.

[@KashyaCharsi]

At least Nico was saved from being used as a ticket to his family.

[@jwmc99]

Story 1: The boyfriend is the AH no one else. They boyfriend needed to set boundaries and properly talk to Jennie, and make sure she understands the problem, but it didn’t seem that he did anything even though his family told him their problems with jennie.

[@mamadragon2581]

2nd story: they might want to have some subtle bouncer-types at the wedding. It sounds a bit like the stepdad might try to ruin things if he can't have his way.

[@Shenn3165]

If Rosie is an adult I suggest talking to her, and letting her know how you feel about step dad and what you told him, so if there is any backlash she’ll know about it.

[@DestinationsChronicles]

Having been a foster parent (I adopted 2 of my kids and still have close contact with several other foster kids who are now in their thirties, (one even came back to live with us, as an adult, for a while) I fully understand what Jenny is going through. She has been used to just plopping into a house hold and trying to fit it. There is a problem here though. To insert your opinions of someone's private sex life etc. is never going to go well. I never have discussed that with my biological sister EVER! Not respecting what the parents want to be called is rude. Calling distant family members is out of line. However, I don't think Jenny really understands and this should have been dealt with, as a family, because Nico is incapable of sorting it out.

[@Cassandra765]

Story 1: NTA. I think some people are letting their sympathy for Jenny blind them to her inappropriate behavior. OP never said they weren’t open to having a closer relationship with Jenny, just that the type of bond Jenny was asking for required time and effort to get there, which is fair. Jenny has made it clear that she is not interested in putting in the effort to establish these bonds, instead she wants to snap her fingers and have an instant family for herself and expects Nico’s family to cater to her wishes regardless of their own comfortability and boundaries. Was what OP said harsh? Sure and I feel bad because I can see how badly Jenny wants a family, but everyone has their breaking point and it sounds like she pushed OP to hers.

[@fcold9402]

1. NTI. Even family should not just invite themseleves on a trip other family members are planning for themseleves.

[@AryonaSamoto]

Story 1: Even if Jenny gets the "family" she wants from someone else it probably won't be healthy. I empathize with how she feels but her neediness will only push people away and attract the wrong people. I Jenny can heal and that OP's brother recognizes that he deserves someone who chooses him for him and not for a ready made family. Story 2: I'm glad OP finally spoke his mind. His ex and the ex's hubby are major buttholes who don't even deserve to be apart of the daughters life with how manipulative and toxic they are. I hope the daughter sees it someday and I hope she has a beautiful wedding and OP has a wonderful time as FOB❤

[@webshiva]

Story 1: OP and her family sound insanely cliquey and rude. I don’t know if it is a cultural thing or not, but we’re I come from (Seattle) you don’t talk about a trip in front of someone that you are planning to exclude. Likewise, if you don’t want someone to ever ask you about your intimate life, you don’t discuss it in front them. OP is lying to herself - and to us - by saying she wants time to get to know and possibly accept Nico’s girlfriend. After 2 years and an engagement, she doesn’t need extra time to know that doesn’t like her step-brother’s partner. The decision was made long ago that the fiancée was not going to be let into the family. I don’t feel sorry for Nico’s girlfriend because she was a foster child and doesn’t “understand” family dynamics. I feel sorry for her because her fiancé gaslighted her, making her think that he had a loving, welcoming family when in reality they were talking behind her back and mocking her for wanting to become one of them. I also feel sorry for her embarrassment and humiliation, when she realized how little OP and her family really thought of her. Very few people can suffer that much social and emotional embarrassment and then be willing to trust the people who caused it. If Nico and his fiancé get back together, they will probably go no contact.

[@ladytrucker251]

That's exactly how I was feeling about the story, you just wrote it well better than I could. 2+ years of knowing her and everyone including the parents treat her like she is absolutely not wanted. 2+ yrs and the parents still insist that she doesn't call them mom and dad? In my eyes the whole family is cruel by purposely excluding her. I'm Puerto Rican and if you bring someone home you are dating, we all welcome that person with open arms. In many cases the parents will say call me Mama call me Papi. Everything you said about not talking in front of her was spot on.

[@Mexican-tacobutnotabreakfast1]

This. Exactly this.

[@Hope_this_is_just_a_dream1994]

"Why cant you be the family i want you to be?" Key words are "I want" She isn't thinking beyond herself and her wants and needs. The perfect family doesnt exist......they all have a different dynamic. She cant just be a battering ram and act like "here i am accept me!" She has to show them that she isn't going to run everybody over because its something she wants. Op could have been less harsh.....but it was necessary to have someone say something.

[@tetsuya225]

In the second story, John played a stupid game, and he won stupid prizes. OP was justified in his gloating because he suffered a f-ton of it for so long from the step-dad, giving the man a taste of his own medicine. To which the step-dad obviously didn't like.

[@NotWorthBeans16]

Story 1: NTA. Jenny needs some therapy like yesterday. What she is doing is unhealthy. Both her and Nico need to get to the root of her clinginess if they hope to have a good relationship amongst the family as well as between each other.

[@DragonbornMike-ym2er]

Story 2: Step dad and ex treated Rosy like an achievement/tool their entire relationship. Im not even remotely shocked she chose the parent who actually wanted to be a parent. Not surprising coming from two people who had their own affairs together though.

[@cookingkurry4384]

Tbh I still think Jenny is the AH as much as Nico for not talking to Jenny about boundaries. Jenny does not even love Nico, she just loves the idea of having a big family weather or not Nico is in the picture, plain an simple Jenny is using Nico to meet her ends.

[@crisrodriguez5693]

I honestly think Jenny does not even know that she doesn't love Nico. I suspect she *literally* doesn't know what love is. See, she was not receiving love from OP's family, but she did not notice. She wasn't rejected just once, but multiple times before, and she wasn't phased by that. She seems to believe that by being in the same house, the conditions are met, and she just seems unable to realize there's anything wrong. It's sad as hell, really. (Still, not defending her, she needs a lot of therapy and possibly to leave Nico)

[@nicknitro86]

Empathy can only go so far, just putting up with it will grind away and lead to a blow-up. And she's forming connections the only way she knows how... by forcing them? Real life isn't the Sims, you can't just keep clicking the friend bubble until you're besties. The update makes her sound more like a parasite than someone longing for a family.

[@agentzapdos4960]

10 times out of 10 it's better for the kid to abort them than to adopt them out, raise them in a broken home, or lose them to the foster care system. Yes, it's literally better to have never existed than it is to have a traumatic childhood.

[@Musiyca]

Story 1: Nico in the mediation said that he is willing to DITCH his family for Jenny. Meanwhile, Jenny is willing to not have any romantic relationship if it means having full loving family. That doesn't line up at all. How the f Nico sold her the idea of his family? I mean, he told the truth that they are blended, but I guess both of them forgot that blending families with divorces and remarring means building each bond from scratch. Granted, OP with mom and sister sound super close, but again, they had to work on that bond. And Nico doesn't seem interested in them. Why would he pray on someone that wants big and close nit family? On the other hand, Jenny sounds unhindged with stalking extended family members that she never met, informing them about engagement and inviting to the wedding. THAT should've been a sign for Nico to finally have actual serious conversation. Instead he was just letting things flow. OP is NTA. It was harsh, yes, but very much needed. It wasn't in ill will or malicious, just enough is enough. Yes, it was Nico's doing for not taking anyone's concerns seriously, but at the same time Jenny was also being unreasonable.

[@invertedghostgames9899]

Story 2: The sweetest, most brutal, and best revenge is to live a better life than your opposition wanted you to, even more so if it's better than their own. OP is clearly living a better life on his own than John is with OP's Ex-Wife, even more so because OP's daughter is smarter than John gave her credit for, silently called him on his bullshit, and built a strong bond with her dad (OP) who loves her dearly. OP doesn't need to say or do a fucking thing; he's already won, and is getting the best revenge for all those years that he possibly can, just by doing nothing but living well. Still, that clap back in the supermarket was nice to read~ Live well, OP! May you have a long and loving relationship with your daughter and her fiancee!

[@starlingswallow]

Story 1: it sounds like Jenny needs trauma therapy~ she seems to have an anxious attachment style and it will push people away until she gets the healing she deserves ❤

[@fluidwolf]

Im honestly unsure what is worse. The brother selling the girl in being family or the girl on only being interested for the sake of having a family that she can just slot into. They are both wrong I feel. However I can't really say OP was an AH because how many times do boundaries need to be stomped before someone can say that enough is enough?

[@madambutterfly1997]

She expected an instant intimate connection. You would think growing up in the system she’d have barriers that will take some time breaking down. I wouldn’t have expect her to be the one trampling on everybody’s boundaries.

[@jodieg6318]

People react in different ways. Rather than Wall to knock down Jenny reacts in desperate need to make connections.

[@floraposteschild4184]

Well, I wouldn't call two years instant intimate connection. That said, you can't force these things, or expect they will happen without a lot of work.

[@Treveyon2010]

@@floraposteschild4184 It was two years of her trying to force a relationship. That makes it even worse because it means in those two years she never stopped. That is like a stepparent trying to force a kid to love them like they love a bio parent.

[@Maddluv4eric]

First story: YTA MAJOR

[@ronniepickett4586]

In that last story I would’ve sued for full custody, considering the ex-wives husband was trying to alienate you from your daughter

[@christinahaythorne3633]

S1- while i understand why Jenny wants to belong but she's going about it the wrong way. Its sad but she needs to learn. Just because Nico told her they'd be a perfect family doesn't mean it's true.

[@jameshutchinson2817]

I wonder how long op has been with her bf, apparently long enough to the point where he is included in everything and can even interject and berate someone on behalf of the group. I sure hope it's been more then 2 years because other wise it just proves they choose to keep Jenny at arms length because they don't really like her. I get that Jenny might be super extra as a person, but I also get the vibe that op and her family are stuck up.

[@jakeand9020]

There's comments about this Mark didn't cover. Boyfriend basically pointed out, politely and calmly, some harsh truths Jenny really needed to hear. OP referred to it as a "moment of insanity," that she later lectured him for, because he said ANYTHING at all. Honestly this whole family is a nightmare and OP is, at best, an unreliable narrator, Jenny's better off getting away from the whole mess.

[@skyelinkhyrule5715]

Story 1: NTA, you cannot overstep boundaries. PERIOD. Yes, Jenny had suffered in the foster system and I feel for her, but OP's family has boundaries. Some of the YTAs sound very entitled.

[@PrincessQ-fj9ly]

I'm guessing, that they're either boundary stompers or are too blinded by the fact that Jenny suffered in the foster care system, which I find to be very sad. But that doesn't mean you're allowed to disrespect boundaries.

[@agentzapdos4960]

The fact of the matter is that foster kids and kids from broken homes will never be capable of forming healthy relationships that aren't codependent or abusive.

[@skyelinkhyrule5715]

@@agentzapdos4960 Sadly, yes. I do feel bad for Jenny. Now she does need to respect OP's family's boundaries and seek therapy for herself.

[@agentzapdos4960]

@@skyelinkhyrule5715 Unfortunately the only kind of therapy that works on people with a background like mine or Jenny's is 9mm therapy.

[@itsjustmaddisen]

@@agentzapdos4960 that's not necessarily true and a bit of a broad stroke to make.

[@lorrainemontagnon1537]

First attempt making gluten free cin buns. Sent them with my son and awaiting the verdict lol.Dough was very hard to work with. Fingers crossed! My son said I should open a bakery lol, told him we could name it "Debbie Doodles dies Struedal and more"....lmao

[@FanFicnic]

There’s no fixing Jenny. The only way is intensive therapy and LOTS of conscientious work. And for that she would have to think something is wrong. Which she doesn’t. You know that thing where kids at voluntourism places immediately glom onto the 20 somethings who prop them on a hip for a picture?? Those kids are Jenny. So neglected they immediately cling onto anyone who is remotely nice.

[@GrassJelly101]

Loving the cosy Hobbit hole background 🥰

[@ChangedWinds]

Story 1: had to hear everything before I said anything. Holy crap, is NTA. That's not saying because of after the final update, but because of something else. As a foster child, when I was a child, I had that trauma of feeling abandoned, unwanted, and wishing so much I was never born. That feeling of uselessness and worthlessness was stronger than anything else I felt while I was in the system. But like other children of foster care, you have choices to make throughout your life. It's not obvious when it happens but it helps mold you into a slightly more stable person. For example, everyone who heard this story and never knew someone who was in foster care and then it would be believable to assume that most adults who came from the system are like Jenny. Fun fact, did you know that a study was published in 2016 that states at least 70% of children who exit the system as legal adults are arrested at least once before they turn 26? The foster care-to-prison pipeline is very real. Similar to this pipeline theory, in 2019 there was another study made that says up to 80% of children in foster care have significant mental health issues. That's something Jenny and I share in common but that's it. I'm very happy that Jenny finally got to openly admit what she is desiring, even if it's unrealistic and unhealthy. I'm pissed with Niko who literally got Jenny to date him solely because he flexed his solid family. Niko got the shocked Pikachu face when he was the one who got Jenny riled up to date him because forced insert family and then being told that she will drop him for that forced insert family. I can understand where OP felt what she said was for the best at that moment because the assumption was Niko had spoken to Jenny about everything. Jenny has time to get the help she needs, she just needs to make those choices that will help her in the long run

[@LaineyBug2020]

Story 1 - Step Bro & Jenny have been together for 2 years and they haven't built ANY sort of familial relationship with her? It seems like OP is still holding on to her own issues about family and gatekeeping. Why should Jenny get to come in and be loved when OP had to work for it? Also, who has private conversations about their sex lives within range of someone they don't want to share that with? Who knows that Jenny is probably about to wake up and come down since she's only one of 3 people not up yet, and starts talking about a vacation they know they're going to exclude her from? They've had 2 years to get to know her but it seems like OP enjoys setting her up just to put her in her place. She's like those JNMILs from India that torture their DILs because it was done to them so it's a rite of passage! Why isn't anyone else reading between the lines? 👃I definitely smell missing missing information, and an unreliable narrator!

[@BritInvLvr]

Story one: Jenny needs to join our family. We take all strays.

[@ultraviolet2447]

How dare Nico sell his “family” too her as a selling point to get with him and then get mad when she expects that and doesn’t want to be with him when that isn’t the reality. Also was op telling the truth about the comment her boyfriend made, if so then that wasn’t a moment of insanity but he seems to be the only level headed and emotional intelligent one and op needs to take several seats and get into therapy herself. This entire famile minus ops boyfriend is fucked.

[@bettreon]

Story 1. NTA What's annoying is that everyone gives Jenny a pass because they "feel bad for her". Just because she's had a poor childhood doesn't mean she's able to push people's boundaries and it's OK.

[@concretecaveman7666]

Well I guess Rosie proved that blood really is thicker than dog piss.

[@nuttmare9438]

Go Daddy! 😂He asked for it!

[@sarafinamariebeauty7666]

YTA in the first story ITS BEEN YEARSSSS. And yall haven’t accepted her yet because yall don’t want to. ITS BEEN YEARS they getting married soon shes your sister by marriage and your parents daughter by marriage. What is the point of continuing to keep her at arms distance?!?! She has to play the wait game why?

[@CrimsonAngelWinges]

Story 2: Rosie is most likely going to cut contact when she has kkids.

[@rhonddarousey9683]

If you need several paragraphs to explain what you meant, that isn't what you meant

[@Shenn3165]

Sounds like Jenny needs to move on, sounds like she’ll never get what she needs from bf and his family.

[@crowdemon_archives]

Yea she needs therapy and better support system. Which is clearly not OP.

[@Sarahmgrigsby]

I feel bad for Jenny. After two years and the family hasn’t warmed up to her. Trying to build a relationship is a two way street. It sounds like OP is making Jenny do all the work. Also OP’s bf gets to come to family therapy? I wish OP would just be honest with herself and stop making excuses about Jenny not putting in the work. Some personalities just don’t mesh and Jenny’s just rubs OP and the rest of the family the wrong way. I think it’s good for Jenny to decide if marriage into a family that will never accept her is enough. Does she want a life time of the cold shoulder from her in-laws? She may love Nico but can’t imagine a life of feeling once again like she will never have the love of an extended family. She probably is better finding someone with a more loving family. Is no different then deciding to not continue a relationship with a person that doesn’t want kids when one person does. It’s not fair to either person to compromise the life you want for someone. I hope Jenny gets what she is looking for.

[@LukiaChan08]

I have to say that this is the way I interpreted story 1 too.. I feel OP is not completely a reliable narrator. For example, OP keeps stating how even though they are trying to build a relationship, Jenny keeps forcing herself in with their family but my question is, what are they doing to try? Sure Jenny may be trying to insert herself too much too quickly but is it also possible that they aren't actually trying which is making Jenny try even harder? Informing extended family of an engagement doesn't seem that far fetched to me.. maybe I'm missing something there.. To me OP sounds a bit like one of those women who refuse to accept sister-in-laws to be a part of their family and see then as outsiders. (At least I've known people like this)

[@ZoeAlleyne]

Story 2: "you should appreciate what I did for Rosie more" bs. That man didnt do shit FOR Rosie, he did it all for himself, his own ego and his desire to "win" and he has nothing to show for it. Dad is NTA, normally I like taking the high road but he did that forever and he is allowed to have a "you know what, here is the TRUTH moment".

[@musetorn]

If you haven't already, set your daughter down at some point, and let her know what her stepdad has been doing to you all these years, the hurt and fears that has caused you and your mother's role in allowing it to continue. NTAH

[@melsolomon8256]

Story 1 your whole family sounds like AHs, TWO YEARS not two weeks.

[@TheMelbournelad]

Poor Jenny. Poor kid never had a family, and was just wanted one so bad. Wanted that connection

[@ItsAllNunya]

1: Jenny does not process relationships the same wayas people who grew up with families, and op clearly doesn't understand how growing up in a dysfunctional environment(esp the foster system) damages your ability to form relationships like everybody else. It is unfair to ask her to "just form relationships like she does with friends". Because relationships between family and friends are different, and she's NEVER HAD A FAMILY BEFORE, SO HAS NO REFERENCE FOR HOW TO DO THAT. From what little I can tell, she is approaching the family relationships not just with the idea that was sold to her, but with only the knowledge of "making friend relationships" which is not great, but makes sense. I have to go YTA entirely because of the expectation that somebody who's never experienced familial relationships should somehow know how to be in one.

[@Ashbrash1998]

Is it fair to OP though to act like a therapist? Or is it Jenny's responsibility to get therapy by someone more equipped to deal with those issues?

[@ZoeAlleyne]

BS. Look, I'm so fucking sick of being pigeon holed as a sad fucking sack case that is not capable of learning just because someone who did 3 seconds at Google University thinks they know how all brains work. Yeah, traumatic upbringing, absolutely a headcase, emotions all over the shop, sexual attachment issues yadda yadda... but I have been learning. And I know when someone tells me that I have stepped on a boundary NOT to do it again. YTA, you specifically, for demanding the OP have the resources and patience of a therapist when their boundaries and sexual comfort is being violated because you deem one person to be in "more" need therefore they are everyone else's responsibility.

[@ItsAllNunya]

@@Ashbrash1998 Jenny was not treating them like a therapist. Maybe they should have suggested therapy instead of(and I NEVER use this word lightly unlike twitblr idiots) retraumatizing her.