I Tried Outsmarting the Power Company with This Box

[@ateam6486]

You see. The trick is to take that big battery to someone else home to recharge or at work so its getting charged up for free during the low cost times.

[@vincentsgaming]

That too! Lol

[@backacheache]

​@@vincentsgamingI heard of someone doing just that with their electric motorcycle (charging at work, not at home) and almost lost his job!

[@MrOpenGL]

When I was a poor student I used to charge a similar contraption that I DIYed on the train (there are sockets there), so I could save on the power bill

[@BryanTorok]

Yes, stealing from your employer is always a god idea. That is, until you get caught, fired, and maybe even prosecuted.

[@macmcleod1188]

​@@BryanTorokwell if you are business is going to get upset over you charging 13 cents of electricity, then you probably don't want to be working there anyway. And that's what 1,000 Watts cost. That's about 20 lb. Now if you're rolling 45 lb of batteries into work to get 39 cents worth of electricity 5 days a week.. Well the same thing really applies.

[@DaveBjornRapp]

It may not save you money on energy cost, but if there's a power outage it'll still save you the cost of replacing the food... which I've had to do 3x in the last 5 months.

[@macmcleod1188]

So this is my use case. I have a 1 KW hour battery that will keep the refrigerator and freezer going until the next day after the disaster when I can start up my propane generator. I have enough solar panels to charge about 900 watts per day. That's enough to run the refrigerator 1 hour per 3 hours and keep it going for about 12 hours. Or to charge my devices or to keep a small fan going or to keep a small massage table pad going or to provide light in areas away from the lights I have plugged into my generator. I use propane because there's almost no maintenance and the tank of propane will stay good indefinitely.

[@macmcleod1188]

Oh yes and twice this year it has saved me at least $200 worth of food. I can also charged the battery at my house and then take it over to a friend's house who has lost power and give them power for their refrigerator or freezer.

[@mrblurleighton]

​@@macmcleod1188 I used that same power station along with 800W of solar panels to survive for months after a hurricane. Definitely doable.

[@rogerwilco2]

What shitty place do you live where the power goes out that often? I haven't had a power outage in over a decade.

[@macmcleod1188]

@@rogerwilco2 areas that get severe thunderstorms, derechos, tornados, and hurricanes, and ice storms, really bad floods (8 ft plus) So basically places that are within 100 mi from the coast, tornado alley, near rivers, the lee side of mountain ranges, areas that have seen rapid population growth, areas that see forest fires, areas with long transmission lines from power generation sites. It's actually more where is this remarkable place you live that doesn't meet one of those criteria.

[@zeighy]

One thing you didn't realize is probably the power loss by converting the energy from AC to DC and then DC to AC. That's why in some scenarios this setup up does not make sense at all. There's also power loss from just the battery charging itself, so there's enough inefficiencies there. Plus, one of the worst items to test this on is a fridge because they already run pretty lean and low on power once it's up an running with enough thermal mass inside. This would have been better to test on things that consume significantly more power ~100W or more and have to stay on all the time. Your fridge not only consumes less than that when running, but also does not run full tilt all the time.

[@BooBaddyBig]

The thing you're not seeing is that the grid power is far less efficient at peak time. In some cases as much as half the efficiency.The grid has to start up generators to cover the extra load usually CCGT plants, but CCGT have about half the efficiency for the first hour or two. The grid operators are actually installing huge grid batteries to handle this, the big brother of this box.

[@FionSus]

Unfortunately, the fridge is about as good as it gets for running on rechargeable battery power. Heavier loads will overload the battery circuits, and higher kWH means paying more for higher capacity batteries. What you'd really want this for is a heat pump, but that's also the hardest and most expensive to run on a personal grid. The economics just don't make sense on a single-household scale. Say you run 1500w worth of appliances, peak-shaving five hours per day: even if you're saving 50c per kWH by peak-shaving, that's only saving you $3.75/day. It'd take easily half a decade to recoup the cost of the setup, before you even start to consider battery degradation. Same issue with personal-scale solar. You just can't beat the economies of scale (and government subsidy) that utilities benefit from. It's cool tech, and I hope it improves. Right now, the cost doesn't make sense unless you're a hobbyist or have unreliable power. When you take into account the environmental impact of battery production, it's hard to even claim it's better for the environment than improving efficiency of existing power grids.

[@RaniRani-zt2tr]

That is so true, not the most efficient setup, but at least it’s better than nothing

[@BooBaddyBig]

@@FionSus A lot of grids have off-peak pricing. With a combination of off-peak pricing and solar and the efficiencies of heat pumps, you can slash your bills and pay back the system long before the battery wears out. The other thing is that you're not paying for transmission of your solar power, so personal solar works REALLY great.

[@yakovdavidovich7943]

They'll typically be 70-90% efficient, which means if your off-peak rates are less than 70% the on-peak rates, then you're saving money. One local power company I looked up charges 20¢/kWh on peak, and only 4.8¢/kWh, so it's really not that dumb of an idea.

[@jon9103]

You're not outsmarting the power company, your doing exactly what they are trying to incenivize.

[@Larke_]

I guess the ""I'm doing exactly what the power company is trying to incentivize" title wouldn't get much clicks

[@How_To_Drive_a_TARDIS]

I have outsmarted the homeowners association normally they give you fines if your grass is tall but with this simple trick (cuts grass) you don't have to worry about that

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

I have outsmarted the police. By obeying the law I have greatly diminished my chances of going to jail.

[@xobk]

KZbin video titling and thumbnails are a mind virus

[@kazfun8803]

He's also trying to outsmart the electrician it seems. Improper installation @ kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKWxomBmoLtrj68 That might just get you electrocuted.

[@PassiveMoney1979]

A fridge was like the worst possible test for this.

[@deadbatt9321]

The cost of wearing out the battery will likely never offset the cost of electricity.

[@yakovdavidovich7943]

Assuming 90% efficiency and the on- vs off-peak rates at one power company I looked at, and assuming a typical refrigerator will be about $30/mo to run (?), I estimate that this strategy will save $4/mo. The Anker Solix is $499, so it takes 125 months (10.4 years) to break even. I don't know what are the odds that the Solix still works in 10 years, but I suppose it's not a very likely proposition.

[@MrAgreeandDisagree]

Wearing out the battery happens more when you charge it to full or discharge it fully. If the UPS can keep the battery between say 20-80% charge, it should last quite a long time

[@kreana02]

I have this Anker C800 as well. Be careful with it when the battery depletes, when you start charging it again it does NOT return power to the AC plugs. You have to manually turn the inverter on.

[@utopiaone115]

Good point, it doesn’t memorize settings. Anker should be able to make it easily via firmware updates though 😅

[@MyWasteOfTime]

Anytime you invert AC to DC or DC to AC you will lose energy! Plus the Power Station uses energy itself just to be ON! My peak 4-8PM is 37 cents and Midnight - 6AM is 2.2 cents.

[@SofiaisSunshine]

Solar is the way to recharge and get it off the grid entirely or at least getting the bulk of the energy via solar. A 200w panel on this fridge would change that spread sheet entirely. 200 watt panels are about $100 right now

[@MarkHewitt1978]

Would it be possible to use the likes of this plus solar to get a solar on the cheap installation. Eg for £1000 rather than £10,000 for a rooftop install

[@joshm3342]

You're not outsmarting the power company. They offer lower rates at off-peak times to ENCOURAGE exactly what you're doing. A WIN-WIN if you think about it.

[@MrBorisio]

Why doesn't the power company invest in power storage?

[@laborspy]

Power company’s run off of a theory of running at the bare minimum keeping profits. When a natural disaster hits that day they have no money so the state/government helps to pay to rebuild. It’s a genius business model honestly.

[@DanKaschel]

​@@MrBorisiothey do, but it's incredibly expensive. There's just no way right now to economically store that much energy.

[@ScrapKing73]

Great video! Sounds like a good application for an old school mechanical wall timer rather than a smart plug.

[@MegaLokopo]

Some power companies let you opt in to the program, if you work from home, you can save a lot of money.

[@MegaLokopo]

Most power companies also round to the nearest dollar, so you really should just be optimizing your usage, so you use every drop of power you pay for.

[@JoATTech]

I tested such power station, and conversion efficiency is ~80% (it's the top value for the good power stations). So you loose 20% energy converting AC to DC, then you loose another 20% converting back. So you end up with 64Wh for every 100Wh you put into the power station. Totally unfeasible especially if you take into consideration the cost of power station itself.

[@rubena6388]

Thanks for shedding light on this. Would be very nice if you had a spreadsheet that would allow us to enter our own rates, time, etc..

[@phototristan]

So it looks like this is not really worth it to do, however, if you could somehow wire the power station up to charge by solar, then it probably would make sense.

[@robbay8610]

Very true. Plus, battery inverters are about 90-80% efficient. So you're gonna lose those small gains over time anyway.

[@tristated9310]

On the scale of a single refridgerator, the answer is no it's not worth it. But more efficient equipment on a whole house system is a different question. You also have the added benefit of having a backup for when the electricity goes out.

[@yakovdavidovich7943]

By my calculations, that makes the refigerator cost savings $6/mo instead of $4/mo, but you have to add the cost of the solar panel and MPPT charge controller to the break-even analysis...

[@MegaLokopo]

Laundry and Air conditioning is where you should start.

[@grindychum]

The problem is the Power stations idle power usage. To get the most out of the cheaper power price, you would want to run multiple things during the increase $ time block as long as the power stations capacity is enough to run everything without needing charging during that time. Some people with get multiple smaller power stations - one for the fridge, one for router, computer, tv etc. The problem is each power station is using 1- 3% of its battery capacity per hour just being on. Having 3 power stations would be using %6 per hour VS 1 power station just using 2% per hour.

[@MHawkeye]

3% on a 1kWh power station is 30w, no shot it uses that much. my 4kW high frequency inverter uses 10w idle, im going to assume its more around the less than to equal to 1%

[@grindychum]

@MHawkeye the pecron E1500lfp has a 2.3% idle ac draw.

[@MHawkeye]

@@grindychum can you link me where it says that? normally idle power draw is measured in w not percentages, so im curious in seeing it as ive googled and i havent even found a mention of idle usage.

[@MHawkeye]

forgive me if im blind, this is all that ive found E1500LFP SPECIFICATIONS: Brand: PECRON Power: 2200W Battery Capacity: 1536Wh(51.2V/30Ah) Battery Type: LiFePO4 (3500+ Cycles to 80%) Smart App Control: Bluetooth and WiFi Battery Expansion: Yes AC Input: 100Vac~120Vac/15A Max/1400W Solar Input: Voc 12V~18V/100W Max/7A Max;Voc 32V~95V/700W Max/15A Max Car Input: DC 12V~18V-100W Max AC Output: 100~120Vac/50/60Hz/2200Watts DC Output: 1x12V/30A;1x12V/10A;1x12V DC5525;2xUSB-C;4xUSB-A;1xWireless Charging Pad USB Output: 1x100W PD,5x18W Wireless Charging Pad: 15W Max. UPS Power: 100-120Vac/15A Max. Charging time: 1.5 Hours Charge Temperature: 0°C~45°C/32°F-113°F Discharge Temperature: -20°C~45°C/-4°F-113°F Weight: About 18KG/About 39.7lbs Dimensions: L377xW237xH305mm;L14.8xW9.3xH12in

[@grindychum]

@@MHawkeye check out hobotech and jasonoids reviews on the product

[@ronaldod7116]

Here in NL this feature is standard if you have a home battery. Here you can get a "dynamic" contract with prices defined per hour. But those are available one day ahead. So you need a smart component to save €€, based on if you buy the power for the grid or take it from the solar panels. If you do it right you can save like 30-50% of you energy bill. And that without solar power (Winter/clouds ). And calculate the loss of loading and discharging the battery. Depending on the inverter quality it can be between 85%-95% so you need to add a 10% loss in your calculation.

[@DanKaschel]

That's true in the US as well with many of the large power companies.

[@MegaLokopo]

Get a job as an electrician, and install wireless chargers at local businesses, steal their power.

[@JoeOtaku]

Just use the smart plug to turn off the fridge for an hour, it will still be cold enough for the food...I bet you can get a smart fridge that will time adjust it's temperature for just an extra $1000 😅

[@javaughnfrancis1799]

Btw, I take a similar approach with a Jackery. But instead I plug appliance that’s always on (modem, WiFi). I charge it at the lower rate hours 10pm to 5am. Then turn off the switch during daytime (more expensive)

[@AB-tc8lx]

Also part of the problem is you are running something small like the fridge? If you want to make a dent in your power bill during the summer figure out how to run all the A. C. That the house needs? But it will still cost you a ton of money. But that is what I wish I could run and save money the A. C.

[@vadnegru]

Power stations that could run A.C. for a few hours cost quite high. At that point why not add solar to the mix?

[@matthewmoore349]

i did the same test on my fridge. SCE tou prime rates. pretty much just broke even. but, if one was to do that they would have a back up on their fridge for when a power outage might happen. the reason it doesn't work for a fridge is because the inverter has to stay on constantly. i moved it to my dishwasher and - with a smart plug - it only charges and passes electricity through from the grid during lower cost times. it uses the battery when the costs are higher. the difference is that we turn on the ac outlet of the solar generator manually every time we use it instead of leaving the inverter on constantly and it is programmed to turn off the inverter automatically after 30 minutes of non use. we used to only run the dishwasher when the rates were low, but my wife wanted to be able to use it whenever she wants and this allows us to do that without using higher cost energy. it is slightly higher because of conversion losses and idle battery drain but the convenience is worth it to us. we didn't buy the thing to try and save money on tou rates but wanted something to run our fridge in case of power outage and use as portable energy source. this way, though, it doesn't just sit around waiting to be used once a year for a 2 hr. power outage but, instead gets used regularly which is better for the battery health.

[@shelley131]

Enjoyed the video. I considered this test but our electricity is pretty low to where you live. It would be interesting to see the increase in savings if you used solar panels to recharge your anker unit vs using grid power. If you are using grid power either way during peak and non peak times, you still are using grid power , so 1kw of grid power to charge unit vs 1kw of solar power to charge unit, for example.

[@snoekbaars1]

He has a video where he runs a room off a solar panel for a day using the same power station as in this video

[@mt-qc2qh]

Rather than trying to time the exact peak hours, perhaps run the max on battery, only charging during off peak times. If it only takes 2 hours to charge, 8 to 10 hours off-grid should be beneficial. I like your approach and I have both the Anker C1000 and smart plugs as well as Kasa control over the plug. I have to interface the Bluetooth reading of the battery feedback and intelligently control the plug. Thanks for the project ideas!!!

[@nerys71]

If you're running solar power this might make sense otherwise it doesn't because the more you deplete the battery the more you're cycling the battery and the faster you're wearing the battery out so you're better off only using battery power when you absolutely have to

[@vadnegru]

Not to mention charging and discharging inefficiency. That way you use like 120% of power you'd use powering device from the wall.

[@mindofneryspoliticsetc6297]

@vadnegru it all comes down to the Delta between your own peeking off peak power costs Yes you're going to use more power by time shifting your electrical usage but the purpose of time shifting is not the safe powers to save money That's what you have to calculate

[@thefpvlife7785]

By far the best power station experiment on KZbin. I do use the Kasa smart plugs for my current Christmas light setup. Cheers.

[@paullinkins8121]

A good ROI calculation would also involve the MTBF of the added components and the effect of the added heat generated by the power unit (typically bad because of the need to cool the area where the power unit is kept).

[@mannyfragoza9652]

In MA. the rates go down after 9PM. so i charge my misc stuff at night using the grid. But run my fridge during the day from my DIY solar system and charge 2- 100Ah batteries to run my fridge at night. As long as the weather permits of course.

[@oscar33212]

As a couple of other folks pointed out you need to stack benefits, like avoided food spoilage. But when my area had time of use rates the more effective savings were actions like time-shifting your energy use, like washing clothes, dishes, and bodies (Showers) after the price drops back down for water heating, cloths drying, etc. (If you do this without electric interlocks using hot water right before the price goes up could result in reheating your hot water tank at the higher prices). And looking at ways to make similar shifts in other large energy-use activities, like air-conditioning, dehumidification, cooking, … .

[@AndyChannelle]

I've been doing this week 6kw of batteries for the last year. It's saving me about £700 per year.

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

Other than monitoring power usage, a smart plug hardly seems necessary. Timer plugs have been a thing for nearly a century.

[@YeOldeTraveller]

Some power stations have the grid control included in the controls available through the app. Only saves on the smart plug, but ir you already have the power station for other reasons, you only have to save on the power cost arbitrage.

[@samuelhilger48]

"I've wiped down the fridge frontside!" said no one in your house ever. 😢

[@Bobrogers99]

Uninterrupted backup power has been around for many years for computers. My power company does not charge more for peak hour usage, but this setup might eventually save you a few bucks once its initial cost has been paid off.

[@George_us]

I like how this video is showing the power used by the Anker unit itself and how that changes the outcome. However, one could use a power converter that has a rating a little more than the refrigerator itself and that would change the outcome because the power used by the power converter now will not change the overall outcome as a larger power converter. Of course, one could always use solar and larger battery to reduce how the power converter consumption would change the outcome.

[@vevenaneathna]

i got a 12v dc fridge, the largest size they make for about 88 bucks. i think 55liters. added al foil tape to reduce ambient IR absorption, and then hacked it to run on 25v from a new usbc pd3.1 gan power supply. it uses 130wh/day, so little power consumption that its actually saving me money on my fridge because the main fridge isnt being opened so often and loosing all its cold air each time. and theres more room in the fridge. theres also some knock on benifits to lower ac cost in the summer. idk seems more practical and more utility. the power consumption for refrence is less than one of those smart meters lol

[@Harshhaze]

Buying a power bank on sale and getting solar panels for $700 seems like a more economic option. Got any buying plans or suggestions for Black Friday?

[@OJGamingYT]

This is cool but doesnt seem practical. The cost of just one of those things offsets any price loss from the power company over months of use-age. Let alone having to buy multiple for different places in the house that use the most power.

[@meilyn22]

This was just a fun test. Nobody said it was practical lol.

[@nerys71]

It might actually be practical for him to do this if he lives in the high price area where that would save him 21 cents a day? If he were to run five equivalent loads off of that device assuming he would still get 5 hours of runtime that's $1 per day or $365 per year The ROI is 2 years That's actually not bad that's a really good ROI in fact His problem is he's only running the fridge on it he needs to also plug the freezer into it and a few other things into it

[@nerys71]

There is also an additional benefit depending on where you live so if you have poor power where you live if you could break even with an ROI on the box itself then basically you have a free UPS which is very nice when the power goes out or in my case where the power flickers surges and browns an awful lot like literally daily I have 14 UPSs in my house just because otherwise the power would fry all my stuff The core problem is if you maximize the box your ROI is two or three years which is really not bad The question is will that box last 3 years? The battery yes if it's a lithium-iron phosphate battery that battery will last 10 or 15 years The problem is the electronics in the box itself the inverter of the cooling system the BMS will those last typically these boxes really aren't made for continuous duty cycle and those components aren't the best quality components My EB3A boxes are very nice except the damn cooling fan always fails on them

[@StephenSmith304]

It would be interesting to adjust the calculations to assume you drain the battery almost completely before the switch turns on - to see the theoretical maximum benefit if you plug in as much stuff into it as possible. Fridges don't really use much power once they reach temperature so that probably hurt the calculation a lot. I would try lamps and tv/media center and laptops/PC if possible.

[@Lanshyy]

Its common in many EU countries like Czech, Hungary, Poland, Germany etc. In Poland they had whole gov programme that they gave you back % of your house modernization process. By that I mean getting PV and magazines to store excess production from it. They even had a option that the your electrecity provider would store your production from EV and give it back to You instead of selling it to You

[@AyushmaanGanotra]

What if you connected more items to the battery instead of just the fridge?

[@jackuzi8252]

Yes. Because the fridge only draws 55 watts, the savings from shifting the demand is small, and doesn't pay for the power station. If you had a plugin device that drew hundreds of watts, your savings would be much larger and the payback period would be reasonable.

[@Daniel15au]

That'd work. It's basically what a whole-home battery backup does, but on a smaller scale. You don't actually need to have solar panels to use something like a Telsa power wall.

[@waltdog5791]

always remember that the inverter that are on these power supplies take power to convert dc to ac. that is why you see an increase in usage in this case. currently my ecoflow ultra pro, runs my tv's and my home computer system. and i have set it to use 50% of the battery before it will start to charge from the grid. on days like today where it is cloudy my panels are not going to be enough to get it to charge. I'm still testing its limits as i just got it this past month, this summer will be interesting as i will be able to power more with it.

[@jpoprockz1735]

I tried the same experiment and came to the same conclusion that it takes too long to break even although I have portable power stations located throughout the house to keep critical devices powered in the event of a power failure. Most notably the fridge and freezer, internet equipment, NAS, and my entire home office.

[@BraveRoutes]

I use my power banks during peak times mainly for my power-hungry technology. And I use portable/flexible solar panels to recharge the power banks. Free energy.

[@Heyth3re]

Thanks for the realistic conclusion. I wish there is a device that can get the AC energy from these power stations and injected back to your house without the need of solar and grid tie inverters. That way you can at least offset a bigger portion of your overall consumption during those peak times

[@DarrenTurner-m4o]

in europe there are many so called balcony systems with a microinverter that can do that. I purchased one for my ecoflow called the powerstream. it can push up to 800 watts back into my house. been a gamechanger for me. plus I can also put more solar into the powerstation too!

[@Tithis]

I've wondered about this for EV chargers. Our utility gives us rebates for each KWh used by our smart EV charger during off-peak times. But ultimately home EV chargers are pretty dumb with a basic protocol to communicate and agree on amperage for charging. The is no reason I don't think, that you couldn't make nearly any 240v device run off of a adequately sized home charger.

[@mrcleanisin]

I'm not going to read all the comments to see if someone mentioned this, but the fridge does not use constant power. The compressor motor cycles making the wattage vary drastically. You need to use a device that keeps a constant wattage, so as a light bulb.

[@backacheache]

Peak shaving I believe refers to really big commercial users of power who get charged extra for using more that their contracted usage and the batterys help reduce those peaks

[@TorreFernand]

"I'm gonna put a super complicated computer into my plug to do what was already possible in 1952!" "What's it called?" "SMART plug!"

[@LarryRichelli]

I live in San Antonio and there is only one power company, which is very undemocratic as they just throw money at the county so that they will not allow other power companies to compete. Also, trying to find out if there are different rates for off peak use is next to impossible as they shroud that information in tons of documentation so one comes away figuring that there is no off peak period here.

[@AndrewSheldon]

A lot of people have a power station for other reasons, and if they were to use them for 'other reasons' were on weekends for recreational camping, or for emergency power, then your suggestion makes more sense. The power station consumes a lot of power for the inverter. If your frig is DC, that I gess would be a huge saving. A smaller, or optimally-sized inverter will make a big difference. I recently saw a review for a power station with a 2500Watt inverter and the loss was 20% over a 10 hour period. So, I guess the opportunity is there for a smaller 'multifuel' frig, but those tend to be less efficient. There are exceptions though.

[@RPRosen-ki2fk]

I liked your science, you did an excellent job presenting the information. edit - I'm curious how the numbers would work if you only ran the fridge during the lower rate periods and had the smart plug disconnect the fridge for the 4 hour peak period. I think a well insulated fridge would not lose to much temperature over 4 hours.

[@gotamd]

One thing you should be aware of if you were to do this is that those smart plugs may have lower load ratings than the receptacle they're plugged into and a power station can potentially draw more current (to charge) than the plug can (safely) provide. Just make sure you match them up once way or another so you don't risk starting a fire the the smart plug overheats.

[@solarmeateater]

Buy Ecoflow and schedule your AC charging for all off-peak hours. Done deal. No Anker product nor smart plug needed

[@cryptickcryptick2241]

If you have an electric hot water heater, turning that off during certain periods of the day, and then running it at night and running it to a hotter temperature and or adding a mixing valve (One way to expand "capacity" of a hot water heater is to increase the temperature and then use a mixing valve.) If you are not home in the day, it can run then at night on cheaper electric.

[@peterengland6153]

That's not out smarting the power company, hold my beer. I purchased a sub $25K Chinese EV with V2L. I charge at night 20kwh for FREE, 7am switch on V2L via a change over switch, use about 7kwh from 20kwh of car battery night charge, use 13kwh for car journeys during day, and repeat. I am retired and live in New Zealand. I save about $800 on electricity, and $3,000 on fuel and vehicle maintenance. Note fuel here is $7 a US gallon.

[@footprinthero]

Niiice

[@BryanTorok]

How do you get electricity to charge your car for free? Is that some sort of government subsidy to encourage EV use? As for the charging, what voltage and current do you need to power the charger.

[@bluezcluez315]

Very nice. Unfortunately we’re still waiting for V2H in the US.

[@BryanTorok]

@@bluezcluez315 That is available on Nissan EVs.

[@bluezcluez315]

@@BryanTorok In the USA? Just the Leaf right? I’m not familiar with how it connects to the home.

[@theclearsounds3911]

One spec on these power stations that is usually NOT mentioned is the idle current, which is the current that is consumed with there is no load on the box. This can become VERY significant with small loads. As was mentioned in other comments, there are other inefficiencies, like battery charging and discharging, and the conversion from 120V to 12V, then back up to 120V. These are all working against you. Since these numbers are hard or impossible to get from the manufacturer, there is no way to tell which power station is the most efficient.

[@MrTsolar]

You're also using about 40% of the battery capacity. The savings start adding up when you can delay larger loads like air conditioning, which is where Tesla Powerwalls come into play. When you start delaying several kWhs of load to off-peak hours, that'll make up for the increased consumption from the battery and inverter system (most of the increase from the power bank is from the inverter itself). The reason you don't see a flicker when the grid power is cut is because power banks like this one behave like an on-line UPS. They always run the AC loads from the inverter and don't switch between battery and grid power. Incoming power (from the grid, solar, or car) goes through the internal charging circuit and onto the DC bus, with the battery absorbing or providing differences in power, or sitting idle. So you have AC input getting converted to DC and then back to AC to run the fridge. A purpose-built UPS for desktop computers actually does switch between grid and inverter power for the AC loads, but whatever efficiency gains they have is usually lost in the rudimentary charging circuit for the SLA battery. This type of UPS is called off-line or Standby UPS, because the inverter is off and disconnected from the load while grid power is present. When the grid is lost, the inverter powers up and relays switch the loads to the inverter. Now, if you find a standby UPS with an efficient lithium-based storage and charging system, that will reduce energy consumption and make the ROI look much better assuming the hardware cost isn't astronomical. However, you would still be looking at a multi-year breakeven, so your best best is to find loads that you can delay without needing to run them on battery power (blast the A/C before peak hours and then try to float until off-peak hours, using your space as a thermal battery), if going through the effort for a few dollars a month is worth it to you.

[@SwampYankee-o4b]

I outsmarted the power company by plugging into my neighbors outlet.

[@TheRogueBro]

In Ontario Canada, Hydro One has a few different power plan options. 2 of the major ones are: "Time-of-Use" which has a On-Peak, Mid-Peak and Off-Peak prices, and also offer a "Ultra-Low Overnight" plan. So I've been curious what a return-on-investment would be like to charge up a battery bank overnight at the very low rate and have it discharge during the day.

[@lubomirbrousek194]

If your peak times are only a few hours everyday, I think you could just fill up your fridge with water bottles (or any other stuff that has high thermal nass) and leave it unplugged for the time period. Basically making your fridge a "thermal battery". We did this with my friend at our dorm every night, because the fridge was too loud and I couldn't sleep well. Yes, after 10 hours it got a bit warmer, but maybe 5 hours could be manageable. Though you shouldn't add new stuff to the fridge during that period, that will ruin the temperature...

[@ethereal_emily]

Another potential issue here is size of fridge and how much power the station can output and hold. This may work for smaller fridges but I'd be a tad concerned that much larger fridges with higher power draw would make the size of battery needed potentially an issue.

[@HectorBarrera-b7n]

For a large family it will make sense, door stays open 24/7, I got solar no batteries, but instead of the refrigerator I would back up a bigger power load, or a washer and a gas dryer., the gas boiler and the AC fan it runs constantly ( not the compressor) , small inverter AC comes to mind.

[@BiNumLi]

If the power station takes 2 hours to charge, it doesn't need to be on all day. Big potential savings. But you would have to manually unplug it and later replug it. A bypass switch box might make that easier.

[@bluezcluez315]

The real way to outsmart the power company is to put magic rectangles on your roof and much bigger boxes like this in your garage or basement. Grid-optional solar PV + LFP energy storage. I just had a $0.92 bill in Michigan.

[@MarkHewitt1978]

I would love one of those, or even the likes of a power wall but the numbers came out similarly for me too. Even in small use cases like buying a SwitchBot to run the dishwasher overnight, that is still in the region of 9 months to pay itself back.

[@WHITEPERSUAS1ON]

My power company offers free nights, so in theory you could run on battery 5am - 8pm (or whatever amount your battery can take) and take free energy 8-5 charging battery back up

[@SVW1976]

I love how the smart plug blocks the use of another outlet. Now thats brilliant engineering.

[@BorealisNights]

To be fair, those smart plugs were not 'engineered' for use with that specific power unit. They were designed for typical wall sockets, which are oriented vertically relative to each other, rather than the horizontal configuration of the power unit. Your critique could just as easily be turned around to ask why the power unit wasn't properly engineered for that specific smart plug.

[@kiberkli]

I did the same thing with the C1000 and a smart plug running my office computers. I then added one, then two, and now 6 100w solar panels. My C1000 is now only connected to AC power from 11pm to 4am. Does it pay for itself? Probably not in my lifetime but I don't pay peak prices and (at least try to) stay under my baseline allowance because PG&E finds a way to charge you more anyway they can...

[@sjdaniels]

I did this for 2 years, while my electric company was charging .05 per KWH after 8:00 PM. It would cost me around $3.00 to fully charge my Model S. Now… they changed the rates.

[@predatorbako]

I wonder how well this will work with the AC which is most expensive during the summer peak hours. I'd love to put out solar panels only during the summer months for the AC and the pool!

[@TechPeasant404]

i would suggest to keep the timed plug on the fridge and simply turn off the fridge during the 5 hour peak times. perhaps throw a ice pack into the freezer. get rid of the UPS. limit the amount of times you open the fridge/freezer during the outage times. could install a USB chargeable motion sensitive light in the fridge if you rally care about the fridge light. Keeping your fridge/freezer around 80% full is optimal for efficiency as well. too many or too few items can reduce efficiency. if your fridge has a decent R-Value it should keep items cold for 5 hours without power. could set your heater thermostat to a really low setting during the same time if you have a programmable thermostat this would also save power. set your dishwasher on a time delay start if it has that feature if you normally run the appliance during that time. and wash your clothing outside of the window as well.

[@TechPeasant404]

if you keep your fridge only 60%-70% full of items you could add additional ice packs in the fridge and freezer partitions to assist in keeping them cool. This would assist in the appliance efficiency throughout the peak and non peak hours as well. the fridge will run longer when the power is restored however that should be cheaper than keeping it on during the peak times You could also just keep the fridge powered and do away with the timed plug and simply keep the other suggestions in play. fridges don't constantly run they only kick on when the temperature threshold is reached for its thermostat.

[@seymourpro6097]

Saving money on electricity costs by manipulating the time of use depends entirely on your prices at each time of use. Little price difference -little saving. Which as you demonstrate may not cover the energy lost in the storage and recovery. Where I live (UK) the low rate is always 1/3 of the main rate so there is a big saving to be had. I'm looking into a system with possibly 15 - 20 KWh of storage. That way I can draw all my daily consumption at low rate and use it at peak rate times.

[@nickadamson6053]

I totally expected that to pan out differently, bummer! Thanks for doing the work so I don't have to 😆 BTW, Method makes arguably the best stainless steel cleaner and the bottle lasts a VERY long time 😉

[@Nicholas-f5]

also consider if its a pure sine wave to protect the motor

[@riznliz]

Entertainment system -- This was my highest 120v usage for 4-9 and I am doing the same thing as you did. COOL to find someone else that had the same thoughts. 170 watts is what my ES using per hour 5 hours for 4-9 means 170w x 5 = 850 watts a day or about 25 KW per month moved off peek power time.

[@nirglazer5962]

the power station's usage is going to always be the same (or close to it). you're just using data on a fridge. a fridge uses close to no electricity so the percentage of usage that the power station uses is going to be higher (for instance, if the power station uses 10 wh, and the fridge uses 10 wh, it's a 1:1 usage rate). If you were to have a machine that uses 100 wh, then it would be a 1:10 usage rate and you'd be saving more. if you had a 'big enough' power station to cover your entire house for the peak hours (in the case 5 hours), then it would be significantly larger savings. many people do this with their solar btw (RV'ers especially), so it's not a new concept

[@backacheache]

I have heard of electric vans doing this so when they return to the yard its peak time so sell everything left on thier battery and they then recharge at the cheapest time ready for work the next day

[@Maj9183]

If the 9 Watts the power station uses does not significantly change as you add more appliances then your savings would be significantly larger if you are able to add a number of appliances to the power station

[@GreedoShot]

wow, uninterruptable power supply does not get interrupted, stop the presses this is revolutionary

[@brox8538]

well if u attached the power station to a bigger load, so maybe combining the frige, a tv and maybe a fan or two the inverter would've probably been more efficient and the setup would've been more money saving

[@graphguy]

I have a better idea… Break up draconian power entities like PG&E.

[@zsi]

And exactly what would that accomplish? Power companies do not have unlimited electrical capacity. They can, and will, meet demand when they can. But at a certain level, they either don't have the electricity to give or they are limited by the infrastructure to carry that electricity.

[@graphguy]

@@zsi You might want to rethink your opinion after researching the truth of what PG&E (for example) has done and not done to control the availability and price of electricity.

[@nunyadambusiness3530]

@@zsi monopolies cause higher prices, there needs to be competition

[@Daniel15au]

​@@graphguyBay Area cities that don't use PG&E, like Palo Alto and Santa Clara have electricity prices that are 1/3 (or less) of PG&E's peak pricing. It's crazy. When I lived in Palo Alto a few years ago, electricity was around $0.16/kWh flat rate (no peak and off-peak periods). Unfortunately I'm in PG&E territory now, but I've got a solar system with NEM 2.0, so PG&E are paying me :)

[@graphguy]

@@Daniel15au yup we are on Roseville power - 30% less than the PGE. Congrats on solar - the issue I have is it is not really owned by you. You have to tie into their system.

[@montanadan2524]

Wow, you fell into compliance with how the utility would like its customers to consume power.

[@dolan660]

man on peak here in arizona is like 38 cents, feel so bad for you in cali

[@car_tar3882]

Doing this with the battery is not financially fesable but a great way to take advantage of off peak pricing is to blast the ac at night when it’s cheap and your body wants to be cooler and then let it use less energy during the day with your home acting as a battery.

[@jonfr]

I do not recommend using this with fridge and freezers because of how the pump works, it can wear out the battery quickly if this is always in use. Fridge also use very little power. This however is a good backup power solution if there are frequent power outages and other problems of that nature. But it would be better to use hardware that is not internet dependent. Because the internet goes out in a massive power outages and then nothing works.

[@C4nn15]

I mean typically a fridge uses about 1.5 units over a course of the day. Fridge running on this wouldn't really save much.

[@Knulppage]

The video has an interesting concept for a quick work around. My not very extremely well thought out work around for this problem could be what if you could plug the fridge into a splitter which would be very dangerous to make. 1 split plugs into the smart plug in the wall and the other half of the split plugs into the power bank smart plug. You can time which end of the split draws power using the smart plugs as long as that doesn't also get dangerous. The only loss I could see is whatever the power bank uses when it runs and charges. Then again a fridge doesn't use all that much energy but the perfect appliance could maximize the savings. Hey this isn't a bad idea.

[@marcfruchtman9473]

Thank you for this analysis.

[@jej2371]

Unfortunately Seattle doesn't have a pricing structure that would allow this. Great idea though.

[@matt_b...]

Payback is never in this situation. Got it.

[@Melvin420x12]

It's funny because this is exactly why the price is dynamic; so people use the power more smartly. For example with a "smart plug" or with a battery.

[@egn83b]

The trick here is you dont need the power bank, just a basic timer. With enough thermal mass like 2- liters of frozen water in your freezer you can cool your fridge for 3 hours with a power outage as long as you can cycle in 4 hours after words you can cheat alittle bit but it takes energy to get energy so really its penny wise or penny foolish depending on the situation.

[@smoguli]

36c and 58c per KWh??? Where I live it’s 9c/KWh all the time.

[@Funkteon]

This is why solar kicks ass... You can spend $1,000 on panels for your roof that charge the battery, then never pay a bill again if you have a big enough battery.

[@laborspy]

In my area everyone on solar still pays a “grid” fee so they still pay.

[@abetterfuture4787]

Just want to make sure I understand this correctly, were you charging the power station the entire time it wasn't peak power, or did you factor in how long it actually takes to charge it, and only charge it up for that period of time? IE, were you actually charging your station 19 hours a day, or only what it actually needed?

[@mandy2tomtube]

The Anker 767- will run the fridge 24/7 if connected to solar all of the electricity cost for the fridge. It’s a better way to shave money off of your electric bill because the solar and the fridge match each other almost perfectly 600 watts of solar will run a large fridge for ever! but cloudy days either require more solar or something like a 10 kW battery

[@kiowablue2862]

A 10 _kWh_ battery.

[@Kingaliat305]

Can you do this again with the one difference of using solar panels instead of grid power

[@christopherfisher1694]

While I will admit to being a solar and portable power supply enthusiast and this being a pretty cool experiment, I would challenge the cost of the UPS verse the cost of energy saved.