I Tried to Use a Tail Propeller the RIGHT Way!

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About Trailmakers:
In the toughest motoring expedition in the universe, you and your friends will build your own vehicles to cross a dangerous wasteland. Explore, crash horribly, use your wits to build a better rig, and get as far as you can with whatever spare parts you find on your way.
Welcome to the Ultimate Expedition!
Journey over grueling mountains, hazardous swamps, and bone-dry deserts on a distant world far from civilization - it is just you, your fellow adventurers and the amazing, jet-powered hover-buggy you built yourself. Explore, crash your vehicle, build a better one, and get as far as you can with whatever spare parts you find along your way.
Trailmakers is about building very awesome vehicles and machines, but you don’t need an engineering degree to get started. The intuitive builder will get you going in no time. Everything you build is made from physical building blocks. Each block has unique features like shape, weight and functionality. They can be broken off, refitted and used to build something new. Individually the blocks are fairly simple, but combined the possibilities are endless.
Expedition Mode is the challenging campaign mode of Trailmakers. You are competing in an off-world rally expedition with only a few building blocks to get you started. You must build, tinker with and rebuild your machine to progress. Journey through a big world, overcome deep gorges, angry wildlife and dangerous weather to progress and find new parts that will juice up your machine. The world in Expedition Mode will test your survival skills and ingenuity.
Sandbox Mode is where you want to head for an unrestricted, sandbox, vehicle-building experience. Here you can build anything you can dream of, and play around with it in the world of Trailmakers. It is a great place to test out crazy machines, and experiment with the physics engine. With tons of different blocks, hinges, thrusters and interactive vehicle parts - the skybox is the limit.
Trailmakers is even more fun if you play it with other people. Build cool vehicles and compete in mini-game modes with your friends or other Trailmakers online. Build a helicopter, send it to your friend, and shoot them out of the sky. Put two seats on a tank, and let your friend control the turret. As we get further in Early Access development Expedition Mode will also be adapted to multiplayer.
Learn more about the game on www.playtrailmakers.com #scrapman #trailmakers

[@Chris-ok4zo]

This man's helicopter making skills have evolved from "sticking a ceiling fan onto a V8" to "acquiring an advanced degree in mechanical engineering". Truly, a sight to behold.

[@syndican_]

Y e s

[@DanishMicheal]

I love seeing the evolution of his designs even when I don't understand why exactly.

[@apersunthathasaridiculousl1890]

Yessir

[@tetronaut88]

This isn't advanced degree stuff, this is high school/college physics. But he has improved a lot!

[@RadiantCataclysm]

@@tetronaut88yeah, but applying that knowledge into even a simple game, is surprisingly hard, especially with the game limitations

[@nighpaw4651]

Something you gotta remember with highly complex machines like helicopters is that they are not made for on/off inputs, they're made for joysticks which you can vary any amount you want and use trim to level it off, no plane or helicopter is perfectly balanced

[@raphaelc9492]

also a helicopter is way more difficult to build than a plane in reallife and a plane is already really complex but ye you are right there isnt a perfect vehicle out there thats why people make new inventions xD

[@nighpaw4651]

@@raphaelc9492 ye a helicopter is wayyyy harder and more complex than a plane, the fact anyone figured it out in the first place is honestly a miracle

[@raphaelc9492]

@@nighpaw4651 true^^

[@texastank]

**laughs in console edition**

[@steeljawX]

I think something that a lot of people either don't know or just overlook is that a helicopter on paper and in all equations should not work. However reality and weird physics has beaten that theory into submission. So if you can get any kind of VTOL craft that isn't jet powered to take off, fly, and land in the game of Trailmakers you're really doing good.

[@locke_ytb]

Tail Propeller: Hello there! I'm here to solve your helicopter torque proble--. Hinges: Bro.

[@BLKBRDSR71]

😆

[@fs2000]

I did an introductory course on helicopters at uni but I'm still amazed that they actually fly. Real helicopters sometimes have a teetering rotor head which could help here. Also, the blades flex quite a bit irl as is intended. Additionally, there is a dissymmetry in lift if you're not stationary. I.e. if you fly forwards the receeding half of the propeller disk produces less lift causing a roll and then there's also gyroscopic effects of the rotor. Piloting a helicopter surely is a difficult task. Both hands and feet have to be on the controls at all times and from what I know much of the controlling is still done manually as autopilot is limited to cruise situations. (especially on small helicopters)

[@Nevir202]

Ya, TBH, with all the competing forces, I can't believe anyone ever managed to get the issue solved to the point that they became mass producible.

[@feldamar2]

@@Nevir202 My uncle is a helicopter mechanic for forest fire jobs...and they break a lot. Over 20 hours of maintenance for an hour of flight sometimes. Granted, they are flying through ash storms which make sand seem like a pleasant vacation in comparison. But still...optimum during good days (and no ash) is still 4-5 hours mechanic work per hour of flight... I imagine the news crew helicopters are designed to be easier maintenance then a forestry helicopter...but geez.

[@Nevir202]

@@feldamar2 Sure, I get what you mean. But most of that isn't because it's absolutely critical, it's because only a failure rate of statistically zero is acceptable. But that comes back around to my point, the fact that any amount of planning and maintenance can make something that SO BADLY doesn't want to fly at all be that reliable, is a miracle of engineering. lol

[@feldamar2]

@@Nevir202 They really don't want to fly. no. Another saying my uncle had was "They don't fly, they beat the air into submission."

[@andreyemelyan5267]

18:30 it probably the difference of thrust on the blades itself. Parasitic roll comes from the fact that lift of each blade is dependent on the speed, at which the blade are moving through the air. So when you start moving forward or backward yours vehicle linear speed start affecting the lift of blades moving in collinear directions with the vector of the speed. It means, that blades which are moving the same direction with your vehicle - are gaining lift, and the opposite happens with blades moving opposite to yours vehicles speed.

[@miner2403]

I was looking for this comment, well said.

[@pascal2085]

I'm pretty sure a swash plate counters that. It increases the angle of attack where the blades moves backwards and decreases the angle of attack where the blades moves forward. But I'm not a mechanical engineer and like ScrapMan said: Helicopters are hard.

[@andreyemelyan5267]

@@pascal2085 that's exactly what happens, in a helicopter you have controls only over angle of attack of the blades of main rotor and tail rotor, no "bending" blades of the main rotor like ScrapMan thought in video. You can get the hardness explained at Smarter Every Day channel, there are whole playlist about it if you're interested

[@IguasOs]

​​@@pascal2085So each blade is on a hinge, allowing them to point upward and downward. When the helicopter is moving forward, the blade on the side that's going faster gets more lift, making it point upward. A connecting rod make it decrease it's pitch when the blade points upward, allowing it to lose lift, straightening the helicopter. Helicopter's rotors really are amazing. Google flapping hinges, there's images way easier to understand than the mess I wrote.

[@danialmelloman8403]

Another thing is he could put helicopter blades on with steering hinges to engine on servos to do the rotational blades. diagonal for steering or turnings blades themselves with servo for pitch it works just a pain to dia in on ps4 32:03

[@nolinkumar6855]

if you remember the formula for torque, lengthening the lever arm will give you more torque (ie. extend the tail so the effectiveness of a single tail propeller generates more force to counter the torque from the main engine.)

[@Axolotl_1215]

Idea: Stealth dogfight. Turn off name tags and smoke trails on all the engines and set the time to night. Idea 2: Make a plane that is stable without a vertical fin using logic.

[@theredknight3736]

Yoo rhar would be fun

[@milesseelen4306]

Yes!.

[@peachtea-ij8dn]

Cool ideas

[@bekfastdude8022]

yooo idea 2 = B2 stealth bomber that would be awesome

[@beaconblaster33]

use 4 control surfaces cs 1 and 4 goes up while 2 and 3 goes down it will balance both force and drag

[@omardengel4498]

I think the main issue with the torque being so great, is that you are not using actual helicopter rotors, but actual wings, which are most likely orders of magnitude heavier, causing a lot more torque from rotation.

[@aidenaune7008]

a rotation on two axes equals a rotation on the third, along with a change in orientation. the second propeller you are using to counteract yaw torque is itself adding pitch torque. yaw plus pitch equals roll. unless you get the tail propeller to perfectly counter the yaw torque all the time, then the helicopter will constantly try to roll, and at the same time, It will try to change your orientation, causing you to enter a death spiral. to fix this, you could either use a third propeller to counter roll, or you have to get the two propellers to coincide perfectly (which requires the ability to tilt your main propeller along the pitch axis). theoretically, the best way to do it would be to use a main propeller that can be tilted slightly in any direction, along with a tail propeller that is tuned precisely to stabilize your craft.

[@DavidVaini]

I feel like your journey in this video including the weird looking helicopters that you're making throughout the process mirrors what happened in real life with helicopter design

[@matheuscabraldasilva6317]

The "roll" effect you are experiencing is due to gyroscopic precession

[@fdavpach]

Yes, this, I was looking for this comment

[@theratking14]

Yeah he was pitching down and that was being converted to leftward roll.

[@renegadeceo]

Made sure to search comments before i made this *exact same comment*. Watching Scrap discover precession has been glorious.

[@nikkiofthevalley]

That and dissymmetry of lift.

[@smiteey]

maybe trying the actual Helicopter blades vs the small wing pieces you were using might make a difference?

[@SDAL_YT]

yeah! I was thinking maybe it didn't work because the tailrotor was supposed to be used in a double-blade X2 helicopter style aircraft but that makes mire sense than my theory

[@jamesbohan764]

I thought the same thing. He uses the wing pieces in order to control collective pitch and generate more lift spontaneously, even though the total lift may be lower than Heli blades. Pitching a Heli blade in Trailmakers doesn't really generate more lift. It's also really difficult to make a working swash plate as there is no way to do it mechanically due to the collision system, and the flaps/motors are not fast enough to replicate the effect through sensors.

[@theodoric4270]

The stability issues are a combination of an unbalanced center of mass, gyroscopic precession, and asymmetrical lift. Most of these have been explained in other comments, but I feel like gyroscopic precession was most overlooked in this video, and had you not been stopped by some of the other problems, precession would have stopped you until you realized what it was. Now that you have one rotor, not only is the torque unbalanced, but the precession is as well. As your helicopter pitches forward, it also rolls to the left. Instead of countering this, real helicopters use it to control: They tilt the rotors right (or left, depending on the direction of rotation) to pitch forward.

[@jurare89]

yeah. I believe i´ve also seen a video years ago that also explained something that works alongside tilting the blades for pitch. It was basically the "ring-mechanism" that changes the pitch on the blades itself based on the position of the blade. (I also had a lego-model which had just that thing but simplified). In other words: based on which point in the rotation the blade currently is at, the tilt angle of the blade increases/decreases (relative to its anchor point which it rotates around). The result of that is, that based on the position of the blade, its effective lift increases/decreases. In the example of the helicopter always rolling left: the blade would be tilted less when it is on the right side (to decrease its lift) and be tilted more when its on the left side (to increase its lift). And since on a real helicopter, this ring is not static, but can ALSO be adjusted, you can effectively change its direction of pitch freely (since changing the angle of the ring, which is directly connected to the parts responsible for the blade tilt will always change the points of maximum/minimum lift) by changing the horizontal angle of the ring into any direction. which gives you both, pitch- and roll-control just from that mechanism. However: i´m almost certain it is impossible to create such a mechanism in trailmakers, even if you use the complexity-mod and massively exceed the complexity-limit due to how blocks work

[@yorifant]

that's actually very interesting that you're able to completely get rid of the torque by puttin the rotor on hinges lol

[@ThePhonax]

Prolly just a glitch

[@Echo_the_half_glitch]

Mm, yeah but a cool and useful glitch.

[@Kav_Games]

"Im going to use it the right way!" "ok, im not going to use another propeller."

[@CTag81]

I always used a servo with 0 strength under the helicopter motor to get rid of the torque for a single rotor helicopter in Trailmakers.

[@texastank]

I just hid a gyro with a force proportional to the torque in the chopper

[@locke_ytb]

Yeah, I believe this Tail Prop block will probably be getting a buff or change.

[@joshuamartin4348]

something you probably didn't think about is asymmetrical lift. which is, as you gain airspeed the receding blades' relative airspeed reduces, and produces less lift until they provide none at all. this will cause you to roll in the direction of the receding blades. this is the limiting factor on real helicopters max airspeed. hence why military use dual rotors for fast heli's.

[@DeadsTBD]

That make sense (i know pretty much nothing about heli) I was looking for a place to make a comment and this here is as good as any other posts :p One thing I was thinking of, instead of changing the main rotor angle using hinge, maybe having the tail rotor being at an angle will allow for the same kind of effect, maybe even help with the asymmetrical lift? no idea though... As for physics of game I play (on and off) another game where physics are pretty hard to make good as it's using a grid system, rotor/hinge/pistons make a sub grid and a whole lots of complication for trying to make things work... Inn this case what I think is happening is the moving part of the hinge have a resistance to twisting motion to not have other problems (think of the game seeing the part is twisting and it say "nope" and put it back to 0 meaning it negate the torque applied to it, if it didn't any car made with hinge would have the wheels twist the whole thing) So I think it's game engine limited, unless there is a game engine that can accurately calculate each of these things devs will make assumption on what the parts are gonna be used for and make it work, aka 95% of hinges wouldn't be used on torque heavy element so... There you have it. Edge case that would probably require a lot of work to make it more accurate and not worth the effort... That's my thoughts on it.

[@pallav8725]

​@@DeadsTBD having the tail rotor be tilted to one side will generate its own set of issues like when at high power applications, the tail rotor will be tilted heavily causing less yaw torque to counteract the yaw torque produced by the main rotor plus providing unnecessary lift in the back, making it pitch forward

[@adirmugrabi]

You need the tail to be further back. That way you get more torque

[@SinnerD2010]

Heli engineer: Wait you mean i could replace the whole flight computer with just steering hinges?🤣

[@theomorsdorf5897]

Im pretty sure this propeller was intended for the back of a hovercraft or dingy since it's from the rescue pack

[@jakewalker3329]

20:20 it’s called translating tendency. The helicopter wants to go in the direction of tail rotor thrust. To compensate, the mast of the helicopter is normally rigged to the opposite direction. And when picking up to a hover you normally have to put a cyclic input to avoid the drifting.

[@karaolli6430]

On the topic of swashplates, I actually managed to make a perfectly flyable coaxial rotor system with a swash plate without any glitches (but without proper collective control, it is done by a controller) in Scrap Mechanic (and a single rotor one as well, but then it is not very stable because of all of the forces that don't get canceled out by a second rotor). It took me a lot of research and trial and error to figure it out, and I think it would be interesting to see you tackle it. The only real limiting factor is lag - the better you make it the more it lags - but it is possible to make a flyable version with little to no lag. My creation is on the workshop, if you want to see it, under the name of Realistic Coaxial Helicopter1 and 5 by ignorance is bliss, but I don't want to take away the joy of figuring it out yourself from you.

[@Silverwing2112]

14:08 yeah, its called the pilot making constant adjustments at the controls, lol.

[@lashi_0007]

When I run into problems like this I just try the most inane ideas to try and work around them. Just a shot in the dark but what happens if you use both the servo and the hinges stacked on top of each other. Maybe if the hinges start pointing from back to front then the rotating servo rotates it 90 degrees for the hinges to turn left/right will have sort of effect that will give you the torque back. Glitches that don't make sense sometimes are resolved with solutions that make even less sense.

[@Phlarx]

I think part of the exaggeration of forces in Trailmakers is the fact that the rotor mass is a much larger percentage of the whole craft, compared to real life helicopters.

[@johnfelt1089]

Some other comments describe pretty well the mechanical and pilot aspects of helicopter control, but I figure I could add something about the complexity of helicopter control algorithms. You may have heard of PID controllers which are able to stabilize the orientation of planes or drones. A proper PID controller is already more complex than can be made with trail makers(asfaik). Actively stabilized helicopters have to use even more advanced algorithms than PID due to every output affecting every input in complex ways. The math behind it gets pretty crazy and it’s honestly incredible that people were able to figure it out. Source: my systems dynamics and control professor who developed modern helicopter control algorithms at Sikorsky.

[@chrisdietz8017]

the roll issue is from the tail prop being slightly below the center of mass so it is pushing left and right but also very slightly up and down as well.

[@ppbutnotbig6236]

Idk if this applies to trailmakers. In torque, the longer the lever, the stronger the torque. So, if you make the tail longer, it should generate more torque.

[@ThePhonax]

And more weight towards the back

[@beaconblaster33]

but you don't want torque as much as yoi want pure speed

[@nikkiofthevalley]

If it didn't apply, physics wouldn't work properly. Of course it applies.

[@barefootalien]

lolol, at 19:00 when you go hands-off and say "That's so bad..." That's what real helicopters fly like. Flying a helicopter is never a passive activity (unless the copter in question has pretty sophisticated flight control software). Any time you see a helicopter hovering or translating slowly, that's a very busy pilot. It's like juggling while riding a unicycle on wet ice. I think you did pretty well overall, for not really having either the logic parts to brute force it, or the physics fidelity to finesse it like real helicopters do. Ultimately I'm guessing the devs decided adding gyros and gyro stabilizers and magic rudders was easier than adding a more intricate logic system. And... you know what? They're probably right. The subset of players that really makes use of advanced logic functions in games that have them is tiny. And Trailmakers is a somewhat cartoony game. So... magic forces it is!

[@Jack_Wolfe]

There was a copter design that used a tail rotor spinning the reverse direction of the main rotor, facing upwards, but could rotate left and right to face either side at an angle. Which put the force into a vertical direction while countering the rotor.

[@SDAL_YT]

Perhaps the tail rotor was meant to be used for something like a Sikorsky double-blade X2 helicopter design? That's the only thing that would possibly make sense as to why they don't appear strong enough to counter torque.

[@ProducedBy1mhotep]

Mannn I used to watch your videos all the time, time really flies 🙏🏽

[@buckduane1991]

Basically, what you’re looking for is a cyclic, collective, and swashplate. It changes the orientation of the blades in order to rotate the helicopter. This also means when in a wind sheer, it allows the blades on the incoming wind side to rise up a bit to counter that force. The more aggressive the cyclic, the more the blades bite into the air, the more they push down, the more lift is produced. When landing on a ship, they reverse the direction causing the blades to go from producing lift to producing suction to keep from sliding off the helipad. If you think of a single blade as a wing and the attachment point to the crank shaft as the body of a plane and center of mass, basically the blade has both roll and pitch, but not yaw. The blades are, in the end, the actual wings of a helicopter, and the make lift the same way as a plane does, the only difference being where a straight-wing aircraft uses engine thrust to push it forward and move air over the static foils (wings), the helicopter engines rapidly rotate its foils (the blades) to provide the thrust in a similar (but not the same) way as an air screw (“prop aircraft”) design. A modern jet engine is little more than an propeller aircraft with the blades internal rather than external, hence why they’re getting bigger and bigger on the 777, 737-Max, and so forth. If you want to learn more, Scrapman, I recommend the channels “Mentour Pilot” and “Mentour Now!” where he breaks down how most of this works… and how in some incidents things went wrong.

[@gotrude1308]

I ain’t readin allat

[@joelsmall8471]

lol Scrapman finding out how crazy insane helicopters are

[@SillyHammer]

Rotor collective pitch conpensates for airspeed with the right side being flatter than the left (if the rotor spins the same way as yours does)

[@Nyquil98]

Assuming trailmakers physics works like real life, the weird rolling to the left is from your forward speed. In a real helicopter with counterclockwise main rotor you're always giving the helicopter a slight right roll input with the cyclic to counter it in forward flight.

[@wageofconsent2565]

The roll side effect is from the rotor producing more lift on the side the blades are moving forward on.

[@TastyMcCookies]

I have a single rotor UH-1 Huey and it flies pretty well. It took me about 2 days of testing rotor speed and tailrotor speed but also some logic to counter any movement that isn't caused by the gyros. Just use speed sensors to counter the sideways movement and hope that you don't have to spend days finetuning stuff.

[@dogebro1]

I was screaming angle sensors the whole time.

[@JJP1890]

gyro stabilizers on servos for pitch and roll control plus stability, compass on a servo linked to tail rotor for yaw control and torque countering, hidden space thruster somewhere around center mass/center lift to counteract lateral thrust from tail rotor without affecting yaw. That's the best method I've come up with to do a single rotor heli in trailmakers. Simpler option would be to use a gyro to counter the torque (no lateral thrust) and then just use the tail prop for yaw but then you might as well just use the hinges to eliminate the torque.

[@WynterLegend]

There's a reason the main rotor and tail rotor are connected via a drive train. Not to mention the angle of attack is adjustable on the tail rotor.

[@Fox1-1]

19:46 thats why many helicopters have slightly tilted tail propellers

[@ethanhastey1223]

Depending on how complex you want the build to be, there are 3 different types of blade systems, rigid, semi-rigid, and fully articulated. I would look into how they would work in trailmakers for an plausability.

[@Neclony]

flying a somewhat realistic helicopter simulation needs 3 way analogue input anyway. you need to constantly balance out 3 axes as they are influencing each other. I did it in arma 3 with realstic flight model, pedals flight stick, throttle and through vorpx even with a vr headset. Full manual is really hard and also fun when you instinctively learn to control this complex monster. As far as I know a typical helicopter does not fly itself like a plane does.

[@BeefIngot]

The whole time I was internally screaming "tilt the shafts!"

[@Ruffles_Is_Fast]

Im actually proud of myself for figuring out how helicopters work by myself before you showed the answer. I was screaming at the screen so you would do what i was thinking of😂

[@the.other.ian.]

10:46 The counter-roll you are experiencing is due to the center of mass being to the rear of the propellers. A downward force applied to one end of a rotating mass will cause a torque that pushes it down 90 degrees from where the force is applied. Also depending on their weight you might experience less torque applied to the helicopter by the rotors if you use the actual helicopter rotor pieces (assuming they are lighter and produce less drag than the wing pieces).

[@TJ-dh2sr]

You asked how helicopters cancel out the sideways movement: As far as i know the whole Rotor drive train is build in a little bit at an angle (2° or something like that). This means the helicopter would (if we just ignore the rotation) not go straight upwards, but also a little bit sideways without tail rotor. Also it would possibly roll a bit without it. So maybe put the main rotor on a hinge and rotate it a few degrees (am just at 20:49, so if you do it in this video i have not seen it yet 😜) What i actually learned was that this is made for flying forward, because i you move through the air the rotor gets blown on by air from the front (by moving through the air) and this leads to the fact that relative to the rotor blades on one side you have the rotational speed plus the forward speed and on the other side the rotational speed minus the forward speed. This means one side produces more lift than the other, which would lead to the helicopter rolling. This is compensated by a rotor mast at an angle. But as i've seen your problem, i think maybe this helps with this as well ...

[@BullNkosi]

The speed sensor was a great idea. If only you had put it on the tail to detect horizontal velocity and it should keep it at zero unless yawing.

[@hedgehogfriend6363]

I also thought, that it would be easier, cause in the testing the tail propeller seamed way stronger. I also have a dogfight idea, what do you think of 2 sided dogfight? Like build a plane and one side looks different from the other, like 2 planes merged into one. Like one side looks like a jet and the other looks like a propeller plane

[@aaronellman8153]

u could use a distance sensor to sense when each prop needs to be tilted if you put a sensor on each prop

[@thebrickcraft]

The rotors have a free torque which means that technically all forces cancel out but not the torque. Since a free vector doesn't have a position and Trailmakers uses rigid bodies it probably doesn't take them into consideration when transferring data between two parts of a creation. The same should happen with suspension and power couplers as well.

[@aidanpatterson2993]

You could try rotating the tail to the angle that meets what you had to be able to fly straight with a solid tail!

[@ShadowDrakken]

you only need 2 sensors to detect rotation. Either one at the nose and one at the tail, or one on each side, as long as they're both facing opposite directions.

[@tinytruck2108]

I feel like what the tail rotor needs is a "hold position" type option so that you can use it more like a trim rather than only accelerate and decelerate. I think that would be a lot more realistic to how tail rotors actually work

[@georgebeckham5150]

A speed sensor in the tail, pointed away from the rotor rotation, would help account for tail swing.

[@zolaries04]

If you haven't yet, notice on the diagram that you saw, the tail rotor itself is tilted and that might help. Some real life helis have this

[@uattias]

14:26 it rolls because the tail propeller is bellow the center of mass. If it was aligned with the center of mass, it wouldn't roll.

[@smeep6846]

what about putting distance sensors on each rotor, that detects the front of the heli body and toggles an independent rotation of each blade? (the hinges are on 'toggle') The sensor then detects the tail of the heli, de-rotating each rotor blade? Or doing the logic to make the 'tail detection' flip the rotation. Like the diagram at 26:40

[@Pystro]

Yeah, that's probably the easiest way to create a swash plate effect. And I'm merely using "easy" in relation to building a mechanical swash plate.

[@daviddevries5792]

You should try a dogfight with only the new giant tailpieces for lift, no gyros or anything

[@Quietkid69420]

"Any amount of left... ing stuff" 🗣🗣🔥🔥💯💯

[@fredrickbryanbelandres363]

What you can do is move around weight to make sure the lift force arrow is vertically aligned with the weight force arrow, then make sure the tail propeller force arrow is horizontally aligned with the weight force arrow. Use logic to make the tail propeller compensate once you increase collective pitch.

[@TheJGamerGuy]

Idea: remake the mechanism that allows fast fighter jets to land on aircraft carriers through the use of a cable and a hook

[@ramrod1290]

Produces a mutant helicopter with a tail rotor protruding out from its face: “I have failed”

[@ivanljujic4128]

Roll happens because the propeller is moving faster relative to air on the side thats moving forward because it has the helicopters forwards speed added to it meaning more lift, while the other side of the propeller moves that much slower through air, meaning less lift.

[@danialmelloman8403]

Scrapman another thing diagonal tilting blades work on tilted rotor so youd have to swivel blades up and down for pitch and sloshing using servos attached to steering hinges on engine to make up for screw force (tilt while still)

[@user-jr4nd2lc4o]

The tail propeller is made to perfectly counter the helicopter blades that are usually too small for Scrapman's builds.

[@user-vy2yz6ei3u]

fix for gyro problem at 19:00 use a logic gate to give it part of the spinning strength, also make the gyro a maxed out one.

[@BleachWizz]

14:55 - align the tailblade with the rotor of the main blade should solve roll. you'd still move sideways though.

[@fsxbestpilot]

most helicopters hover "left skid low" or "right skid low" (depending on which way their main rotor and therefore their anti-torque rotor goes) to counter the sideways drift caused by the tail rotor. in your helicopter's case it would need to hover "left skid low" (slightly rolled left)

[@dannyl434]

I tried making a helicopter as my second build using that tiny prop for the tail ages ago. I couldn’t make it not spin and it was getting heavy anyhow. Put a second rotor on top and uses the one in the tail to yaw 😂

[@ElyriatheWitch]

Amazing Video scrapman! Love your content and ideas!

[@Loop_Kat]

I don't have any input for this particular helicopter design, as helicopters aren't something I've messed around with too much in Trailmakers, but I did want to point out that the latest update actually fixed the issue with long and short helicopter blades producing incorrect lift like what we saw in your power coupling ornithopter video. Just something worth mentioning for future builds

[@GravityFFF]

If the steering hinges breaks torque when attached to motor, then you can attach them to some blocks and put a motor on top of it

[@BleachWizz]

9:20 - yes basic helicopters are a fight between 3 systems xD the rotation of the blades cause lift but torque. the back propeler cancels torque but introduces a push. now you gotta bend the blades to counter the push. but a roll is not what I heard about!

[@user-ge8lv6om8y]

It's these kind of videos that really show how big brain scrapman is. 🧠

[@Abeezer_53]

This video is the best example of "when you get the solution then the problem runs away from you" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@benjamincrown9439]

Love your videos scrapman keep up the good work!🎉

[@user-jq7zz8kj5e]

Scrap man you are my favourite youtuber and I've been watching you since 200k subs

[@TheBSprince]

@scrapman Try adding hinges back again, but also add another layer of hinges underneath the original layer, but rotated 90 degrees in the yaw direction. That way you can pitch your blades forward and back (for moving forwards and back) and so you can roll your blades left and right, which should counteract your tail rotor drift. The roll hinges could probably be controlled by logic to roll the blades however much they need in order to counteract the tail rotor drift and maybe some of the roll, Please keep in mind that I'm not a helicopter expert by any means, but I believe you were going in the right direction with the hinges.

[@caidenanthony1231]

The reason you never see someone single rotor helicopters is because of a lift issue that causes unintentional pitch back and roll depending on the direction of the propellers, a lot of people can counter the torque but the game hates it

[@eliweatherford4154]

Try putting the tail rotor on a steering hinge to counter itself. Cause the tail blades would also be on a swashplate. About 10 degrees should do it

[@jasonseiverling5354]

Imagine a room full of helicopter designers watching this video. Then the torque disappears after adding the hinges they all just start looking at each other!

[@Matthew-yx3em]

Idea: maybe try using 2 tail propellers right next to each other to see if that would counter the drift from 1

[@technicbuilder6410]

You have two problems: parasitic roll and gyroscopic effect. Parasitic roll happens when you go forward because blade going against the air gains lift while blade going with the air looses lift and that causes you to roll. Gyroscopic effect causes helicopter to pitch when you try to roll and roll when you try to pitch, real helicopters deal with that by having input links of the swashplate offset by 45 degrees. With coaxial helicopters both of these effects are counter-reacted by having two rotors spinning in opposite directions.

[@malhardeadshot6118]

well in rc helicopters, especially the cheap chinese ones, they have a tail rotor parallel to the plane of the main rotor, and similar to the main rotor it applies torque but opposite to the main rotor thats how it counteracts the torque, u can try that, and it need not to be the same size as main rotor, as torque is stronger as the distance from main rotor increases

[@Lockbane]

The diagrams depicting correctional forces to mitigate drift also showed a tilt in the tail rotor. Seeing the primary rotor's torque forces be canceled in a hacky way doesn't give me faith in the tail rotor being connected to a servo or steering hinge though.

[@CreativeSanbox-KH]

Why the helicopter is rolling, is a similar reason why you can’t use yaw in trailmakers planes

[@nikodriftpie1789]

you could put large steering hinges under the propeller tat tilts towards the direction needed to fix it

[@huey2026]

Another complication is the gyroscopic presession. If a force is applied to the spinning object that tilts the plane of rotation about one axis then there is a resultant tilt in a perpendicular axis. Think of the spinning bike wheel on a string experiment.

[@theodoric4270]

You could counter the translating tendency with a thrust equal and opposite the tail thrust but located at the center of mass. Being close to the center of mass, its torque would be negligible, and it would be trivial to make it equal to the tail thrust. Plus, you could hide it in the fuselage to maintain the "real helicopter" appearance. It may not be a realistic solution, but it would look realistic.

[@billybob4895]

If you want to fix the physics glitch you could try putting another helicopter engine under the helicopter and that might generate the torque

[@apersunthathasaridiculousl1890]

Y’all should do an underwater dolphin submarine fight with intense waves

[@ShawnHCorey]

GG. I think you should increase the rotor blade size. You started with a double set of blades and delete one set. This will reduce the lift by half. To counter this, you should make the blades larger so they have more lift.

[@Duckman836]

I love watching him and having no idea what he's talking about

[@arnavandkhushiparmar1852]

The thing is that real helis use the tail prop to yaw and if you could remotely turn up the speed or lower the speed of the tail prop, it would work very well!

[@euanroles2264]

This is why flying a helicopter is one of the hardest jobs in the world because of how hard it is to fly

[@draconicshade8484]

Making a legit helicopter and fighting with them could be neat to see as a MM challenge

[@volcano.mitchell]

Hinges also seem to make heli rotors more stable