Ornithopter Wings Are Way Better With Power Couplers!

[@luckyswordsmen991]

Scrap man maybe the reason those helicopter blades don't work is because they might be canted one direction slightly, if you flip it on the other wing it should work. . . Hopefully

[@zionjarman3610]

That's exactly what I thought you can see that they are tilted

[@ThePhonax]

That’s not how trailmakers helicopter blades work. That’s not the solution.

[@frederikfrohlich3620]

It doesn't work cause it also is on my helicopter

[@NostalgiaHDOS]

@@ThePhonaxhi

[@ThePhonax]

@@zionjarman3610 they are not tilted

[@Fouss_8]

You know the editors is invested in his work when he pull out animations just to illustrate a sentence

[@Pog0ed]

yeah it's a very simple animation but still takes a bit of work

[@johnadams5513]

I wouldn't call what Scrapman said much of a sentence. 5:56

[@RamadaArtist]

@@johnadams5513 I think they're referring to the bit at 4:20 (And the point he's trying to make is that he needs the wings to adjust their angle of attack as well as they move from anhedral to dihedral positions during the flapping motion.)

[@TicketxBooth]

5:58 this was honestly so impressive, editor. Amazing translation 😂

[@rylenstuffsv2]

I love that they make simulations for Scrapmans analogy, makes it so much easier to understand lol

[@loganmurphree3859]

😂

[@Optimus_Prime616]

😂

[@Lava_is_my_cat]

This man totaly just cursed some one and there whole familie

[@fartboxd]

I thought Scrap edited his own videos? lol

[@VanRahPS]

Let us take a moment, and really appreciate Scrapman's editor. Honestly one of the best editors I've seen in awhile. They are able to make funny edits when needed. They work very hard to give us information on topics we wouldn't generally know. The editing is clean, concise, and nice to look at for the brain. Very simple. No overbearing memes all the time or constant jump edits. Let us just appreciate all that from the editor 😌 Thank you Scrapman and editor for such great content

[@ArinJager1]

and has a nice taste in music, too (where can I contact him/her for the tracklist, lol... srsly, this channel introduced me to so much good music... I know there's a "scrapman music" playlist, but it hasn't been updated for a year and I like the new music brought by the new editor... especially like these ambient synthwave/electronic tracks, gives the videos a nice sci-fi vibe)

[@cargasm383]

@@ArinJager1 I always assumed Scrapman did his own music. He released an ep a couple years ago. scrapman aka Catarinth kzbin.info

[@ArinJager1]

@@cargasm383 nah, these are mostly royalty free songs you can find on youtube... catarinth is like the outro and that's about it, really (ofc I know it's him)... just search "scrapman music" and the playlist should show up (but the description says it's no longer being updated, because of the new editor and new music... I heard this one song recently on other channel, can't find it, because there's A LOT of these royalty free songs... like, epidemic sound and such... the "scrapman music" playlist has 416 songs, I've made it to 69th and didn't continue, yet... I usually write the songs in a txt file when I find them...)

[@toastyengineer7398]

7:55 What I think is happening is that since the helicopter blades are meant to be placed in an "X"-like formation to create lift together, what's happening here is that they just are acting like they're meant to, but acting as if there was only one blade on the X. Or basically what I'm saying is that they're just acting as sideways wings right now.

[@kacperkonieczny7333]

you're right. The helicopter blades in game have a weird thing that their lift is offset to one side of the blade

[@maigepresents5840]

Should've modeled it after a dragonfly... they are the most efficient flyers amongst insects. The quad wing design will overcome most bilateral forces and give you even lift with each wing stroke and the forces are balanced out.

[@spook9106]

The last ornithopter was a dragonfly so he likely didn't want to repeat

[@NeonWilder]

​@@spook9106A bird also seems the most natural one to choose out of all the flying animals out there. I mean, of all the flying animals, which one do you think of first? Plus it's very satisfying to watch the wings flap.

[@ThatGamerPilot]

But a bird is more fitted for the powercouplers. Dragonflies fly better with rigid wings like the long helicopter blade

[@TlalocTemporal]

Dragon flies are the most efficient because of the way vorticies interact between the wings. Same reason geese form Vs when migrating. Trailmakers (and most other aero simulators) don't model the effects of vorticies, so a dragonfly with just be incredibly cool.

[@ArinJager1]

_dragonflies are a lower lifeform, birds ftw_ (jk, btw) >:D

[@Losjo4093]

13:12 "So now what we are missing is the logic" that needs to be a quote xd

[@holtingmaximillian1087]

Well now it is

[@47DaveeXP]

ornithopter dogfight

[@PLANET_ODREDS]

That will be extremely hard, but I guess they can try?

[@jakobusswart1376]

What'd be interesting, atleast aesthetically is something towards Avatars water tribe where it's a ornithopter but the tail must always touch water...

[@nemonomen3340]

_Yes._ Been wanting this for months.

[@unholyhardy4359]

I agree

[@MonzerHabbab]

nice idea, it would be very entertaining.

[@Kickerofthetar]

One of the things I've done with ornithopters in the past is to power that tilting hinge just off the rotor. That way, the wings are guaranteed to be cutting into the wind and propelling the craft forward. With un-powered, low-strength hinges, there's a bit of time at the start where they're barely (or even not at all) propelling the craft forward.

[@final_catalyst]

Yeah, I had suggested this for the verses. Limiting the power source for movmen to the wings. Ideally to replicate and actual wing you have scrap mechanic wings at the front and outer edge with sails on the inside behind them to provide lift. Also it's the distortion of the tail and wing tips that provide "control" with the general motion of the center part of the wing like a breast stroke for swimming.

[@final_catalyst]

Okay, my first more detailed explanation was destroyed by an ad popping up closing the window, but here it goes. You want to have 3 layers of "wing" with power couplers along them and then conected to each other tangentially forming a net in the middle with exstra bits hanging out from the "middle". The first section you want to be non-control serface wing segments with fins on the end. The second section you want to be sails in the middle with fins that continue the line from the previous section. The last section you want to be controllable wing serfaces all in a row. The flexibility of the power couplers can be adjusted as you shown to make the flapping motion. with the center ones that are tangential to the majority of them, you want to make these adjustments so a "bowl" is created on the down stroke. Then at the wing tips you want a adjustable steering hinge so you can tip the fins up and down, well using those adjustable wings on the back row to get your fine controls (it's really to bad you can adjust the power couplers stiffness out side of build, possibly use steering hinges controled to replicate for even more control) If done right the only programming really needed is the down and back swipe of the wing from the joint at the body only, and the adjustments of control serface, but the motion of flapping should work. Additional points the sails in the middle like this should help with lift and speed. A proper and complex tail in simaler fashion would help a lot for this as well. Ps. The small blades might have a weird programming quark where it's not that it provides lift only to the right of the build, but the right side of the blade, so flipping it upside down might fix it

[@Chrome1047]

Small Helicopter Blade: nah, screw physics, I do whatever I want to do, and that is moving Center of Lift to the middle of nowhere! 7:54

[@RamadaArtist]

Alright, so, challenge: Instead of making an ornithopter, can you use this kind of build technique to make an actual flying carpet? Like, one that creates lift by undulating a big flat surface through the air.

[@notthatbad42]

"it look like it could be a living creature, other than the fact it doesn't really look like a living creature" i love you scrapman

[@Kitsuen.z]

The editing is getting better every single video, really good.

[@TupperGamer_90]

true

[@asyds]

that bounce when flapping your wings up can be fixed by adding a hinge in the middle of the wing that points the outer side of it downwards, making the wing look almost like an upside down V, then straightening the wing as it flaps down.

[@final_catalyst]

You want to have 3 layers of "wing" with power couplers along them and then conected to each other tangentially forming a net in the middle with exstra bits hanging out from the "middle". The first section you want to be non-control serface wing segments with fins on the end. The second section you want to be sails in the middle with fins that continue the line from the previous section. The last section you want to be controllable wing serfaces all in a row. The flexibility of the power couplers can be adjusted as you shown to make the flapping motion. with the center ones that are tangential to the majority of them, you want to make these adjustments so a "bowl" is created on the down stroke. Then at the wing tips you want a adjustable steering hinge so you can tip the fins up and down, well using those adjustable wings on the back row to get your fine controls (it's really to bad you can adjust the power couplers stiffness out side of build, possibly use steering hinges controled to replicate for even more control) If done right the only programming really needed is the down and back swipe of the wing from the joint at the body only, and the adjustments of control serface, but the motion of flapping should work. Additional points the sails in the middle like this should help with lift and speed. A proper and complex tail in simaler fashion would help a lot for this as well. Ps. The small blades might have a weird programming quark where it's not that it provides lift only to the right of the build, but the right side of the blade, so flipping it upside down might fix it

[@Xmar4]

ha ha ha, really love the little animation to help explain the steering hinge stuff

[@ThatOneGuy9988]

5:02 "water is just air" -Scrapman

[@carcharoclesmegalodon6904]

As a shark, I can confirm.

[@GewelReal]

both are fuids also 5:00*

[@buckduane1991]

If you want an idea that is truly for the birds, you could try having an ornithopter dogfight where the power couplings are required to make the wings.

[@Chris-ok4zo]

Ever since watching a certain movie franchise, whenever I hear the word Ornithopter, sounds of chanting and throat-singing immediately come to mind.

[@maigepresents5840]

Imagine the feeling when some of us read the books 30 years ago...

[@LoPhatKao]

ever since i saw the Lynch version in 84

[@RiceCrisp320]

Alright, now I want to see a no thrust dog fight. Flapping wings only!

[@OnyxBMW]

Next time, consider using parallel power couplings. They should prove to be especially stiff along the plane they're parallel, but you can pair it with mixed stiffness so one side flexes more, and might allow for more tuning of the wing. The technical classification would be having a 2-spar wing, only the spars are energy couplers in this example. And a fun consequence of moderately realistic spars is that they can flex independently of each other, inducing wing roll via a twisting flex. Could produce some interesting results and open up other opportunities, such as piston-actuated wing flex.

[@noripaloniwiththebaloni]

4:58 “Water is just air.” -Scrapman 2024

[@mercutio1404]

In the sense of an engineering point of view air is a fluid and so yes air and water are just different fluids

[@Alec7487]

the editors explanation of what scrapman was talking about was absolutely amazing quality for a single youtube video

[@KingDeadMan]

Helicopter blades are meant to rotate in a singular direction, so they're slightly thicker & biased away from the edge that initially meets the wind. If you invert one side of with Helicopter blades, it may even out the center of lift.

[@Wizardmaster55]

You and Yzuei gotta have an ornithopter build/battle challenge!!! That would be so much fun!! 😁

[@Diegoassortment018]

For a short idea, to keep the vehicle more horizontally stable so it doesn’t wiggle as much, add another set of alternating wings

[@D32L14N]

9:45 I think you need to rotate the helicopter blades from one of the sides to be "up side down" in order to counter the forces

[@SSkyHigh2021]

Yha I was saying that to my self too

[@josephle5373]

but that's just weird, isn't it?

[@golden.raja_]

I was thinking of that too, but I wasn't gonna say anything because I don't play trailmakers and don't know how the game works 😅

[@jakobusswart1376]

For arguments sake, as someone who's never played Trailmakers, it makes sense in context of helicopter rotors to not automatically flip it as thats relevant for counter rotating blades yet both are viable when used for helicopters...

[@golden.raja_]

@@jakobusswart1376 ikr, it just makes sense

[@FugaceFugite]

I think you could get more speed out of it by trying to stabilize the body vertically. I think a lot of the "pushing" the wings could do is lost to moving the body up and down, but with more vertical drag on the body, and maybe more weight, the body would move less, meaning the wings would move faster through the air and in theory result in stronger forces. Or like some others suggested adding a 2nd pair of wings with the opposite "flap parity", but you'll then have to account for the pitch and vertical drag on the body would help for that too.

[@hlibprishchepov322]

helicopter blades is main reason why its working i think. they provide a lot of lift and work no matter what direction they move. perfect choise for random jiggling for lift

[@mistapine]

Try and make the Dune ornithopter

[@toundco]

Yes Please 🎉🎉

[@Shawdostrue]

𝔹𝕖𝕤𝕥 𝕚𝕕𝕖𝕒 𝕖𝕧𝕖𝕣

[@dogebro1]

I hope he does this.

[@TEAM-ev9xt]

Good idea

[@TEAM-ev9xt]

It might be hard to make it but he can probably manage to make it

[@Optimus_Prime616]

16:39 “I’m just gonna center the mirror mode and go BOOP”

[@happyhippoeaters4261]

A tip for thumbnails with moving things, you can take screenshots from vids, so you can record a vid for a thumbnail, or even use the vid you want the thumbnail from

[@rayregula]

Could you maybe add a flap or fin to the nose to decrease how much it moves up and down on each flap motion? (it may be too big though) Would look a little smoother and maybe give you more speed as more force will be going into the wings then moving the body?

[@Jayzl101]

I wonder if you'd have gained the extra speed and kept the flex if you made the first connection solid and kept the couplers for the other two similar to how bone density is in birds

[@adicsbtw]

Something that can help a lot with ornithopters is trying to get an asymmetrical up and down stroke. You want the up stroke to be a few degrees more angled than the down stroke so that the up stroke has less vertical drag than the down stroke, which gives a bit more upwards momentum with each stroke

[@cool2frog]

Other option to improve control is to make the tail able to flare outwards and contract inwards like the tail of a real bird or like a Japanese fan, so not only do you have elevator control on them, but you can also control either the amount of surface area generating lift, or the width and/or depth of the elevator airfoil to produce more or less lift based on what you need to go up or down or stay level. Would require some sort of hinges to do. Also for helping to steer the craft, perhaps use some scissor flaps to provide additional rudder control like those used on pure flying wings instead of actual rudders, but use it in addition to your rudder.

[@knowmad411]

Awesome build! Having been obsessed with your channel, I've recently started fooling around with ornithopters. I wondered if you'd considered using a servo on the tail to assist with turning. Many birds twist their bodies during turns. I'm not sure what the logic would need to look like, but I thought I'd just throw it out there. Keep up the amazing work!

[@duh_bobby1130]

5:00 "Water is just air"

[@VodkaVortex]

because helicopter wings are bulged like airfoils, one side will be more bulgy to displace more air (to make the helicopter idea work at all) so youre basically having sideways wings. To fix the problem you need to rotate them. 9:45

[@bobjoeferson5270]

The only thing that I would want to change is adding a third hinge to the wings just before the first power coupler to allow the wings to swing forward and back, thus scooping into and pushing the air behind them. I believe that this would allow for not only greater speed, but also better stability.

[@_M.T.O_]

nice 3d animation for the explanation

[@eddiejackson1566]

Make the entire wing slightly rotatable so you can angle them forward for extra forward momentum

[@Jellybeanzzz_III]

We need to see a zero power core dogfight

[@000622477]

Most animals steer to some extent with their head. You should try a rudder off the front to simulate that for roll/yaw

[@imnotsure6618]

I haven't been to this channel or played trailmakers for so long😭 so many things have changed wth

[@ProbablyWorking]

I could be wrong on this but I believe the centre of lift issue originates from copy and pasting the wing from one side to the other at the beginning. I had something very similar happen on a completely unrelated build and I fixed it by deleting both wings and rebuilding them manually on each side. No issues after. Could be a complete shot in the dark though lol

[@benschiller8735]

I had this idea recently, which I thought could turn out pretty cool. You could build some arresting wires, set them up on the aircraft carrier and try landing a plane with a hook into them

[@Alpvax]

I think the reason the coupler version is slower is because as the wings give forward momentum they bend forwards, sending some energy out to the sides, rather than straight backwards. You should try doubling up the power couplers (behind one another) to try to reduce the front-back flex.

[@Ninjakid24789]

My friend had made an ornothopter with power couplers and it work really well

[@Scrabbles-dq2mn]

17:35 it looks like a baby throwing a tantrum.

[@redstarwarrior85]

Should have added the power couplers to the body also to make it flex with the tail at the end.

[@SCOP_-we7bm]

0:06 the wheels look like the rings of fire here

[@roshangaikwad1315]

Can you do it with 4 wings 1st and 2nd wing down 3rd and 4th Up while moving

[@cool2frog]

More force out of the flapping means you need to change the wings angle of attack or increase the length of the airfoil from round front to pointy back. Perhaps set the wings flap default angle to a different degree and add a little bit of wing in front of the flaps, or add a control surface to the front of the wings as well to change the leading edge angle and thus the airfoil geometry to produce more lift, and thus more force when flapping

[@catlover1342]

"Water is just air" -Scrapman 2024

[@MRD3ATH2]

To fish it is

[@jaspermooren5883]

I mean hydrodynamics is almost the same thing mathematically as aerodynamics. Fluid dynamics has the exact same formulas for water and air. The variables are just a bit different like density and viscosity. So from a fluid dynamics point of view, water kinda is just air. Really the only thing that makes a liquid different from a gas is that it is incompressable (and concequently but arguably more imporant, decompressable).

[@Jesse-zk9ge]

For a moment there I almost thought it started functioning a little bit more like a stingray than a bird. Maybe you could make a stingray submarine.🤔👌 6:11

[@anthonyplacek9703]

ornithopter versus tank. can an ornithopter be a good bomber, and how well will it fair against the auto aim or manual aim of land based creations?

[@mrnarfynoof]

I think a great idea would be an EMP battle (could be dogfights, trains, cars, or anything else), but each vehicle must have a self destruct system built in that could be triggered by the EMP. I think it would be interesting to see how each opponent compensates for their built-in weakness.

[@Placeholderacctname128]

Since the power couplers dampen rotational forces, you could probably get more speed by moving the steering hinges at the base of the wings with the logic controllers in sequence with the servos. As is, the solid wings go faster because they have a more aggressive angle that is carried out through to the tips. The power coupler wings have a progressive angle that lessens for each segment. You can see this looking at a still frame of the wings flapping. 22:51 has a good angle to see this. Compare the rotational angle of the fins at the tip to the segment next to them at peak height.

[@mr.b1ade19]

Scrapman, maybe if you made the wings tilt forward (to make them flap towards the back) if would flap you forward thus giving you more speed

[@pjamestx]

What a landing! Great build, loved this one!

[@Rocketcraft7167]

14:09 we’re so close. To the wall

[@lordsaaalllt8159]

an idea you can implement is the back section being like a fan with the helicopter blades to act more like a birds tail resting on a hinge to turn the whole assembly and having further hinges on the blades to further change your angle of attack

[@someone12424]

I build this but i made the wing 2 times so what i did you have the main wings and you copy them and place them 2 blocks higher with 2 blocks between the lower and the upper wing. and then just connect it so its good aerodynamic and just do the exact same settings as the lower wing and boom you got way better lift stability and it might take away the looks abit but its still really cool

[@someone12424]

oh and make sure the upper wings are also back one piece

[@catamacko1313]

you need to make an anatomically correct tail exactly like the wings you built. Aka the tail has to move on it's own and turn left n right. Great wings btw

[@Mazapine]

That looks like a lot of fun, ornithopters are so satisfying to watch fly. Maybe try to make small scale ornithopters for a MM battle?

[@DemonKing19951]

You should try to build as much of the control of the air craft into the forward wings as possible. With a little bit of logic, well a lot of logic, you should be able to do things like flap with one wing and double up the servos so you can control the exact speed their flapping at. Basically creating a situation where you can do low energy glides via a fast flap down and a slow raise after while minimizing down force. Also, for as relatively easy as these things seem to be to make, you should do a multiplier monday themed around ornithopters vs. blimps. Would be kind of fun to see how the erratic movements of the wings play into things.

[@ulfurkjalkur5165]

Having seen this now it would be really interesting to see some competitive ornithopter content Be it races, dogfights, or maybe one actual airplane defending against ornithopters

[@dwsage_]

How about putting power couplers between the wings and tail, a.k.a body?

[@graylinbeaudry4651]

i'd still like to see an ornithopter battle. They don't have to be good, they just have to be fun.

[@ashleewhitbrook8992]

should have added flex to the body

[@tigerleader1318]

you should do an ornithopter dogfight

[@nisorgagomes3079]

"Pfitica-th dla bla bla blaeh the eh dehum theing jig-da CA connecta-"is a ancient language according to scientists.It means "Oh no I again messed up, what do I do ,what do I do I think the name was something connecto-." Later realized"Flat connector"

[@Runthedistanceevenifitsunknown]

I think if you put another servo from body to wing (basically a bird shoulder) at a 45 to 65 degree angle so the wings are tilted also power couplers attached to hinges in the body would help bend it and maybe control pitch and fluidity. I haven’t got to play with the power couplers yet..

[@po-0k7]

now to to make a Ornithopter that breaks the sound bearer

[@BenFitzpatrick-n3h]

Two possible additions: you could put some weight on the body so it doesn’t bob up and down so much, and also you could make the wings flap more backwards to push it forward.

[@danyael777]

I think if you had flipped the rotor blades on one wing they would have worked. They seem to apply lift in one direction only bc they're supposed to rotate.

[@jimpunk93]

Try adding fixed wings towards the front, it should make the nose flail up and down and allow more wing movement/propulsion

[@flagg6949]

I'd like to see an ornithopter with no additional propulsion but use whatever is needed to keep the body steady whilst flapping

[@turrboenvy4612]

This looks awesome! I wonder if making the body heavier would force more of the flapping motion to the wings instead of the body.

[@Death_dragon-ne8hr]

If you increase the strenge on the steering hinge and decrese the strength on the flap wing i think it outputs more power

[@CookieCakeGaming]

5:01 my guy really just said "water is just air" XD good video love the content!

[@Travminer123]

i mean i guess his kinda right lol.

[@jaspermooren5883]

From a fluid dynamics standpoint, which was the point he was trying to make, it actually is. Both are fluids (one a lot denser and more viscous than the other, but still).

[@johndawson123]

The logic you used to add roll to the tail could be cut in half as in just one Or gate. if you set the base programming for the flaps to roll as in left and right, both have the same rotation, just reversed controls. Use the Or gate selecting both flaps, and this will be your pitch, as in up and down.

[@Kirbiscool]

I now that the trailmakers team watches these so if there is even the slightest chance of them seeing this I've got two Ideas. 1:weaponiced wings. 2:make the propellers stronger. (sorry for grammar English is not my first language 😅)

[@Holgzac6]

Now for your next task, Ghostbusters Proton Pack.

[@flightcffaux22]

Never played the game but I have an idea you could try if you look at the way a bird Flys it has tilt at the base of its wings so it can push off the air in a more foward motion a rotor and some logic might make something like that motion work and a potential improvement after that is to have the wings folding back towards the tail and then extending back to its splayed out position In slow motion, the wings would go 1. Flap down while folding back into the body (that would produce forward momentum) 2.on the way up the wing are following a flow so they tilt up while going up while also expanding their wingspan 3. The wingspan should be as wide as it can be and at its highest poin and then tilt the wing down gradually, and when it gets to body level, it should be going into step 1 again You wanna push the air back and down so you can go forward and up just pushing the air down and relying on it to glide for speed might not have the ideal result The idea isn't to make it fly like a plane but instead to swim like a bird of prey

[@Royalnerd01]

New playthrough idea. There's this game called grounded and it's a lot of fun to play on your own, or with friends. Scrap, you should play it with your friends sometime. Highly recommend.

[@GummieI]

Well... we need an ornithopter battle now :D

[@FireHawk9463]

What I would’ve done is probably make something that can glide and then make it work as an ornithopter, also the helicopter blades are meant to spin so they give lift in the direction of the spin which seems to be towards the left causing the center of lift to move in the at direction

[@thej-ster8826]

This video helped me build an ornithopter without power cores!

[@duh_bobby1130]

I love this editor

[@calibadgerdude6082]

I wonder what effect more wing segments would have. Different bird species have drastically different wing geometry and flight characteristics. Might be interesting to experiment with sing shapes and see how it affects things like speed, stability, climb rate, maneuverability, etc.

[@snarlyspider7175]

i love the videos with power couiplers lol, they are so cool they made me start playing this again, your wheels inspired me

[@dantheveganman]

dam the wing movement looks amazing. well done

[@hyperphrog69]

I think they should add a cable block, that is exactly the same as the power coupler, except you can't turn it invisible and it has a steel cable texture

[@golden.raja_]

i love this type of videos

[@legolooper]

15:50 I think the reason that it was slower with flap wings is because the flap wings have a lot of flap rather than all wing, so it gives less lift and thus less speed.

[@tylercrowley2559]

For yaw/roll you should have a central servo with the axis points forwards so that you ‘roll’ the tail and then use pitch controls to yaw

[@hedwigmathijs3717]

Yes, and combine that with a V-shaped tail that combines vertical stabilizer and elevators (like the Fouga Magister did)

[@otsy326]

on the helicopter blade problem i think u had to flip them mabye idk