I Ultimate Comparison I Flight Factor 320 vs ToLiss 319 by REAL Airbus Pilot

[@jajai6377]

*A320 reverse only engage on engine 1, the plane drifts out of the runway onto the grass* "Uhm, not sure what happened there, but I can tell you that it's not a usual occurence" haha, thanks for the heads up, captain !

[@gamestv4875]

You need to assign your keys properly.You have engine 1 assigned but not the full package.

[@KristofferThorsheim]

I'm not an airbus fan - but I love this video across the board. First minute alone made me stay for the rest. Very informative for learning purposes swell.

[@faggymcfegit6509]

lol, I was trying to figure out what a "McDue" was.

[@DavidAmmerlaan]

We should stop the nonsense and call it M.C.D.U.

[@maxhammerum7705]

@@DavidAmmerlaan If the real pilot wants to call it a McDue then I am calling it a McDonals.

[@blumac9801]

Faggy McFegit MCDU lol

[@Freidany]

I guess he’s a easyJet pilot, my friend used to work for easyJet as cabin crew member and said easyJet pilots like to call it like that

[@epictetus9766]

He said “McDo” and he’s referring to the MCDU. Known as an FMC/FMS on Boeing aircraft.

[@FlapPlays]

The ToLiss 319 does have ground services. It implemented the default XP11 services, which can be accessed by pressing left Shift+G and click "Request Ground Services". It can take a while for them to drive up, depending how far away the trucks are. This works at most airports that have these default ground services added. Great comparison, thanks for the video!

[@BokeFlyingSimulations]

Which ones did you try? I have tried in several international airports and waiting more than 5 minutes didn't work after calling GS. Thanks.

[@FlapPlays]

@@BokeFlyingSimulations Yeah its not perfect, sometimes its really slow and buggy. Last time I tried was at EDDF, it worked quite well there. Its still better than nothing.

[@BokeFlyingSimulations]

@@FlapPlays I'll give it a try again. Thanks!

[@V1Sim]

I was not aware of this either I will also give it a try, thanks for the tip!!

[@Jamboliner]

Thank you Captain for the head to head. It is always interesting having feed back from real world pilots. I am glad the ToLiss exceeded your expectations. If you feel like doing more videos like this, be my guest. I get glued to the monitor for some knowledge. My father was am airline pilot, he flow from the 707 through A320 and ended in the 340. Unfortunately he passed away. I am a simmer for 20 years now and still learning. Cheers acdelta57 and all simmers out there!

[@pa4tim]

Toliss added a lot of stuff in 1 year, impressive

[@logicautopilot]

Good to see a review like this that actually goes into detail!

[@MajorLazer182]

Fisrt of all, great video, I know the ToLiss devs and they are thankful for the feedback. A quick note to the FF 320 EFB, it is very insecure, there's no firewall or anything and I know two people whose PC got a virus through it although they were just doing normal stuff in the EFB, people need to watch out here.

[@eliash5098]

MajorLeon43 what is Efb

[@MajorLazer182]

@@eliash5098 Electronic Flight Bag- the tablet you see on the left side

[@eliash5098]

Oh

[@rocco1]

Lol just dont download virsuses

[@aviationon689]

The EFB is not there to watch little movies. It's kinda their own fault.

[@neinnunb]

Thank you for this in depth comparison. So if Toliss and FF had a baby it would be a perfect plane! lol It is confirmed: BSS is making a sound pack for Toliss A319 and should be out relatively soon. I think its the next pack to come out. As for the Toliss sound expansion, that only includes the IAE engine sounds. It does not update other sounds.

[@V1Sim]

Yes precisely lol Thats awesome news about BSS!

[@rocco1]

6 months later they didnt come out lol

[@toadintheh0le]

@@rocco1 next month!

[@stricklandgarageaviation2864]

This is an excellent video. I'm a retired airbus guy and your information was very helpful. I'm just starting out on flight sims at home after not being in the bus for about 9 years and this really excited me. Thanks.

[@phoenixfloof9799]

Recently bought the FF and I’m astonished. Still learning to fly it as it’s fairly different from Boeing.

[@V1Sim]

Phoenix 990 awesome! Checkout my professional Series to walk you through preflight-shutdown

[@herrhornbuckele5227]

You've got to consider: FlightFactor has all this ground service stuff which is nice if you use it just like that but it's really annoying if you're using ground handing deluxe. FF requires you to use their ground services which, let's be honest, don't look nearly as good as the ground handing deluxe alternatives. It doesn't seem like much but boy does it annoy me along with the purser (I don't know if the A320 has him). First thing I do in a FF plane is driving the purser to suicide. That really should all be optional in my opinion.

[@Wizball]

Hello.. Great video.. About the autoland for the FF A320. You had only the left engine at reverse, right engine was normal.. So that was the reason for drifting off the runway :)

[@V1Sim]

haha thanks for noticing what the culprit was! I had done some control re-binds and must have missed the second engine reverse lol

[@woodburyfilmproductionsgam8524]

All of the buttons on the overhead that did not work on the FlightFactor A320 are now modeled and work and also have sounds with the BSS sound pack (cargo fire test, evac switches, flight attendant call button, cockpit voice recorder and ground control, etc.

[@andreibogdanovsky1791]

Just bought FF A320 a day ago. Thank you so much for your videos, great learning curve for me ( being a Boeing guy). Super great content. Also you were asking about terrain radar, I'm pretty much sure that it is X Plane limitation, because it doesn't load the tiles far away so there no possibility to scan them on the radar.

[@theairlinesimmer67]

I've started watching this - thank you for your very professional views presented in a humble manner :)

[@rangerrick8220]

I have both... tend to like flying the FFA320 more. Have had some weird auto-land issues as well though on it. I also like your comments and pet peeves, as a real pilot. Great job!

[@HolgerTeutsch]

Thanx for this great comparison! I own both birds and found some differences and would like hear your opinion on this. 1) With the FF I never managed to fly a decelerated approach (3°) as described in the FCOM. With flaps 1 at G/S interception the FF does not decelerate. The ToLiss decelerates nicely. Has the FF enough drag? 2) When hand flying an approach both birds behave rather differently on flap extension. E.g. when setting flaps 2 the FF starts to dive and needs a manual pitch up. The ToLiss get a lot more lift and needs a significant pitch down in order to keep descent rate.

[@V1Sim]

Thanks for the kind words! As for your first question I will answer as best i can, it is our procedure to aim for flaps 2, 180kts at 2,000AFE, it is at this point we push for managed speed and lower the landing gear. We are required to be "stable" by 1,000' AFE (+20kts -5) The airbus is known to be slippery on the approach and your best use of "drag" is going to be the landing gear. I can not recall trying to do an approach at flaps 1 and decelerating, this to me seems like it would end up being an unstable approach due to high speed. Remember at flaps 1 you only have extended the leading edge slats and INCREASED the idle N1 percentage (FADEC goes into landing mode) causing an even slipperier situation. I will look into this further and perhaps put together a video on how to execute a "stable" approach. For the second question, looking at the ToLiss flap extension I dont know if you noticed in the video @ 50:34 the flap extension seems rather fast, this would indeed confirm your observation of requiring significant pitch down, now the airbus is designed to keep you at 0G so when adding flaps in "theory" the aircraft should require 0 change from the pilot, but as EVERY airbus pilot knows when adding flaps the system is not 100% and in fact it does require a touch of nose down pressure to maintain level. For the FF requiring a pitch up this could be due to you adding flaps at non "equilibrium" situation, this behavior can be effected by so many different factors I could not type a reply, but this I will, make sure when you select flaps 2 make sure the aircraft is at the vfe next -10kts and in stable flight. I will investigate this further and prepare a video as well! thank you for your observations!

[@HolgerTeutsch]

@@V1Sim Thanx for your reply. Regarding to the first question I forgot to mention that I'm mostly flying in Europe (Germany) and I observed G/S interception is usually much higher than in the US. E.g. EDDF 25L is ~3700 AFE and 25R is ~4700 AFE. So there is a long way down to 2000AFE and I wonder how to do this. I referred to the (my copy) of the FCOM 3.0.3.18 for decelerated approach with flaps 1/ green dot at the FAF.

[@linka1886]

@@V1Sim What about flying into KLAX where you get cleared for the ILS with intercept of the glide slope at 40mi from the airport...you wouldnt be configured until within 10mi or so, right? What would you do in that situation? Just curious as it's a unique approach compared to surrounding airports in that area.

[@V1Sim]

@@linka1886 haha yes LAX is always interesting, I fly there quite often too. On average we get cleared approach like you said 30-40 miles out, they way the arrival procedures are designed however, they link right into the approach as well. So its actually very simple we just follow the published arrival altitudes all the way down to the G/S and just fly like a normal approach. When it does get complicated is when LAX starts changing your speeds. When that happens its easy to get a little high on profile so its not uncommon to actually disconnect the AP apply full speed brake and get back down to profile then re-engage or handily the rest of the way in. Sometimes we may even be slowed up to the point where we are flying flaps 3 with the gear up still several miles out as well.

[@Maximususs]

Holger Teutsch I fly a 320NEO with sharklets in Europe, and all I can say is, unless you're very light (like 55-57 tons) having Config 1 will not let the aircraft decelerate on the GS by itself. In fact it might even start accelerating slightly if it's very heavy. Most of the time we aim to be Config 2 and not more 180kt on the GS intercept (unless it happens 20-25nm away, in this case, a bit of magic with speedbrakes and landing gear is required :D). Also, you shouldn't be ashamed of using speedbrakes on final approach if you have to. For example in London Heathrow the standard procedure for them is to give you 180kt at around 15nm and then at some point they ask you to reduce speed 160kt and maintain until 4 DME. Even with Config 2 you really have to pull the speedbrakes in order to achieve that, otherwise controllers start asking if you are even slowing down (the aircraft in front is 3nm and the one behind you as well 3nm). Just remember speedbrakes are automatically stowed and inhibited when in Config Full for the 320.

[@rocco1]

THANKS i was searching for it all day

[@davidtsw]

V1, it would be fantastic if you could compare these two again in their current state cause I guess things have changed since December 2018. The FF Airbus is, as far as I know, considered complete and the Toliss has evolved too. I'd love to know which one to choose right now.

[@rogermoore52]

brilliant video, enjoyed it. still think the FF has the quality edge. never seen anyone test alternate law before, very interesting. You could maybe try the Jar A330 next which I predict would be the worst of the three?

[@V1Sim]

I would not disagree with you there, but don't count ToLiss out, when FF first came out I was very displeased with the quality and even got banned from the forums for expressing my feelings lol however in recent updates yes, FF has that quality edge. I think the competition is good for the developers so now we (customers) may benefit from their competition ;) I do not own the JAR and would be hesitant to make comparisons on the 330 as I am not type rated in that specific aircraft.

[@Galf506]

@@V1Sim banned from the forums for expressing your thoughts, typical and that's why I dropped civilian sims completely, all the devevelopers are freaking hacks and scammers.

[@KristofferThorsheim]

@@Galf506 Not all, but majority; get what you're implying though.

[@giacomoertiani3122]

In the part of the thoughts about the FF we can see the brakes working on the accumulator gauge, but, as far as i remember, that is not correct because you have pb off, antiskid on and i suppose ptu auto, so it’s the green system pistons working! The brake/accumulator gauge is showing brake pressure only on the yellow (emergency) brake sys, so in three cases: 1. Using pb, 2 pedals plus antiskid off 3. Pedals plus ptu off

[@liamrey]

What a great video, Thank you for the time, and your knowledge.

[@blumac9801]

43:20 I think that happened because you didn’t put the landing gear up.

[@pierres.5591]

Amazing and full overview. Thanks a lot.

[@BokeFlyingSimulations]

Great video! Very constructive!. I have the ToLiss and I am quite happy with it but it's good to see both side by side. I was surprised by the sounds. Such a difference!

[@flyingpauls5267]

There is also a very important difference between the two that you do not mention: Try setting mild turbulence, 5kts gust and some degrees shear wind in X-Plane weather. Then fly the two planes. They will behave completely different. I would love to hear a comment about this. It is, after the takeoff performance of the FF, one of my biggest question marks regarding this simulation. By the way, FF does also not simulate crosswind action to the wing on the ground, while the Toliss IMHO exaggarates it.

[@747simmer4]

Toliss has come such a long way

[@Spanikopita]

Great video, man. You have a great channel, I definitely subscribed!

[@arcticpilotshow4440]

Thank you for this video. I just want to add that in the replay mode the ToLiss have engine sound but FF not.

[@MaxWaldorf]

Hello, I will report your findings to the toliss A319 author. About the sounds please use the 3D sound option... Thanks for your opinion. The CDU is an older version with mixed Honeywell and Thales features. The radar does work but it is X-Plane default one... Where things might get more interesting as we continue progressing on Cockpit sharing to practice flows... Thank you for your work on the plane review. Cheers

[@V1Sim]

Yes having an older MCDU is no issue, just looking for consistency between 2d and Virtual cockpit is what I was getting at. I will do more adjusting with the sounds and the 3d option thanks for pointing this out.

[@gamestv4875]

The Flight Factor A-320 is not functional in X Plane 11 Vulkan but I can use the ToLiss 319 with the BSS sound pack.I manage around 50 FPS in the ToLiss 319 which is great. I think I will stay with ToLiss 319 for now.Love it.

[@go4toga812]

This channel is already the y2b find of 2019.

[@FSXXtreme]

I have both & love both, I agree what you said regarding the performance, the rain effect is amazing but even I can't use it even with a 1080ti.

[@TheSkelpil]

Excellent video! I watched the whole video, mainly because I have the FF320 and wanted to know if I made the right choice. Over all I think I did, but as you said, it would be great to have the two combine. Very informative video.

[@Mattmfb]

I have seen the ZFWCG and ZFW on flipped positions on really old MCDU versions. They also don't have the abeam option when you use direct to, you have to manually transfer the route reserve fuel to the extra fuel and some other pain things that make you remember the exactly tail numbers that have this kind of MCDU. ( On the past 5 or 6 years only 2 of about 130 had it on my airline)

[@woodburyfilmproductionsgam8524]

I believe the holds in the Airbus a320 by FlightFactor now work as there are holds automatically programmed in my flight plan after approach on missed approach. Not 100% sure tho...

[@alex_c2004]

I like a plane is realistic to fly and it should have a good cockpit. What to buy...is the ffa320 woth the higher price?

[@Galf506]

If you want the honest answer, neither is worth the asking price, but there's no other option.

[@nigelhughes862]

Excellent and valuable review, thank you!

[@Simon_D01]

I feel like the Toliss’ cockpit is waay to blue in daytime.

[@mintyaviation2376]

There is a texture replacement pack available for free on the Xp forums

[@lunarair]

This is probably a bit advanced but I find the OEI performance of FF falling apart, I can barely trim the aircraft out, Toliss on the other hand exhibits a fairly close representation of the actual aircraft (or at least the certified simulator)

[@mohammedwisam2695]

so for a starter should i get the ffa320 or tollis a319?

[@vojislav9372]

43:50 You were not in DIRECT LAW, but in ALTERNATE LAW. Direct law would come on if you got your gear down. (PFD should show "Use man pitch trim"). You need either a triple failure or your gear lowered while in alternate law.

[@iNeoN50]

Could you please try the FS-Labs A320-X and compare it with the FF-A320U? BTW you've got +1 subscriber =)

[@davidtsw]

@Vslsnks It is also commonly known they ship malware with their $100 / $140 Airbus :)

[@theparadoxdoge4310]

@@davidtsw Incorrect lol

[@FEVB]

@@theparadoxdoge4310 That is indeed correct, they have done this.

[@sharko4093]

@@davidtsw Actually, what's commonly known is that the malware situation was ages ago and happened because of one of the team members who didn't tell the others. Xplane snobs however, refuse to listen to that because they can't stand the thought of their precious XP not being regarded as perfect :)

[@davidtsw]

@@sharko4093 You are ridiculous. If only you knew how much crap I talk about X-Plane. And get over it - FSL shipped malware with their expensive Airbus.

[@laloglez1058]

Great video! Watch it all! Keep it up 😃✈️

[@alejandrodelavega9336]

Thanks a lot for this great comparison

[@BokeFlyingSimulations]

@acdelta57 In the new version being release very soon for ToLiss, you can find (among other updates) this: - Added ECAM buttons ALL and RCL :)

[@BokeFlyingSimulations]

Aaaaand the update is LIVE :)

[@V1Sim]

@@BokeFlyingSimulations awesome! I will be making a video highlighting these changes! Im very excited

[@BokeFlyingSimulations]

@@V1Sim The full list of changes is pretty good this time. I am happy about them!

[@iain87]

Great video, I have the FFA320 and BSS sound pack and love this aircraft and the depth it has. So great to see this in depth comparison between both aircraft from a real world A320 pilot. Glad I found your channel!

[@jvmartinmo]

Amazing. After watching the vídeo some minutes, I subscribed to your channel. I’ve learnt a lot. Thank you so much and keep on going

[@Dg-zj6jo]

you need more outside sound inside to help immersion also no air being compressed in mouth of engine

[@sksanjivsingh]

Great Video. Thanks for taking the time out to do this detailed comparison. I thought that the runway 16R at SEA has quite an exaggerated slope in X-Plane. Could that be the reason for the failed autoland?

[@travis3790]

Being a 320 jockey for “training” purposes which one would you go for? And which operates better in VR ? (IF YOU KNOW) ... AWESOME CHANNEL!

[@Juppie902]

I wanted to point out, XP11 has its own MTBF counter under Failures but idk how it tracks it for every plane (is it tail number/livery specific or per .acf?) And how well it works with 3rd party systems

[@MSFSAviation-rd6kh]

With the FF I have only one problem: Why the beacon lights are not reflecting on the wings and on the engines during nights. That's make unrealistic for me. Same with the Toliss.

[@en7165]

Fantastic, thanks so much for this!

[@Rextheslime1]

Well bss at least now bss is available for the a319

[@nicolasbaselli5052]

Hello there! , great review! Which one of them you would recomend for study ecam actions and emergency procedures? Greetings!

[@cafeole4584]

Can somebody help me? i had replicate the same flybywire test he does (250kts, 5000ft) and when i disconnect the AP the plane start to descend.. also when i bank the plane do not keep the altitud. What im missing?

[@avgaskoolaid4572]

Sorry if I missed you talking about this in your review, but how would you compare their hand flying characteristics? I've heard people say that hand flying the Toliss feels more 'natural'. I've never flown an Airbus before but I prefer the FF for some reason. Also, it would be VERY interesting to see you review the JAR A320. Quite frankly, I'm interested to see what it actually does right, if anything (that would be a much shorter list vs. the list of things it does wrong).

[@bigsmoke7054]

So can someone help me what is better flight factor a320 or toliss a319?

[@scootvirtual5609]

FF A320

[@Dg-zj6jo]

could that be dangerous pitch up high speed as you climb fast into another aircraft

[@philipread8733]

Great video.

[@john-us7zx]

Im a boeing guy trying to learn airbus and I am about to get the FF A320

[@Titanium_fighter]

Hi. Now there is a Toliss new version: v1.2.2. What do you think about it, vs A320 FF? Greetings!

[@colbeny]

Hey, thanks for the video its really good that I found it finally.... I'm just starting my TR for the A320 with a lowcost company in Europe and looking for a decent aircraft to practise (in case I'll have any time left during the training :) ). Of course the aim is a study level sim and I'm hesitating between FF 320 and Toliss 319. The price diff doesn't really matter, I'm happy to pay more for the FF if it's better systemwise. I know that Toliss's support is better and developing quickly (they also received Airbus license recently) but still I'm not sure which one to choose. What is your opinion? Have you tried both? If not, what do you think about the FF 320? Thanks and sorry for being long.

[@V1Sim]

colbeny yes I fly both! They are both good and I will be doing an updated review soon as Toliss has made many improvements. However if you are going to be practicing for your real sim I would lean more towards the FF solely due to the fact of the secondary flight plan functions are all there and then the presence of some correct warning lights in the overhead during certain situations. However if you want to practice failures the Toliss features a failure simulation where the FF does not. Both fly well, and the majority of the normal flight control laws are all there for both of them. If you take a look at my A320 checkride video you can see I go through a practice check ride in the FF. If you go the FF route I highly suggest the BSS sound pack, if you go Toliss the sounds are immersive enough. Either way you can’t go wrong but you are also correct in the fact that Toliss is making a lot of headway in progressing their airbus while the FF has almost become a lost cause and what you see is what you get. Good luck sir! Enjoy your training!

[@colbeny]

@@V1Sim Thank you for your detailed answer! :) I think for the beginning I'll go for the FF as I need to practice the FMS first. Then, when the failures come in, I'll maybe invest in the Toliss also. And I'll definitely buy the BSS, just for immersion because we all love it haha :) Thanks again and hope to meet you on the frequency soon ;)

[@0zblox]

Both are great. But, do NOT touch the JAR A320.

[@milo4008]

Is the FF A320 dead? I'm undecided between getting the FF A320 or the FSLabs A320 for Prepar3D. I really prefer X-Plane 11 as a platform because it looks so much nicer and is more modern than Prepar3D. I know that system depth of FSLabs A320 is better at this time, but this would be okay for me if I knew that FlightFactor are actually still gonna improve on the FF A320. But I don't want to spend 90€ on a product that is no longer actively being developed, because for that, the price tag seems a bit too much to be honest.

[@littlemaster22]

the FF was just updated for the third time in a month

[@littlemaster22]

@TheFsxChannel201 Depends on your pov. VR and dev interface were both highly requested features. And they stated more updates were to come in order to fulfil their roadmap. Just being objective here dude.

[@jonathankarakas5354]

great video. thanks for the incredible detail and insight. i wish these guzs collaborated and did the A321 combining the best of both :)

[@expat5587]

I don't think it's stalls with the landing gear down

[@oppotato5440]

I think flight factor fixed the hot breaks cause if i use auto brake med i get hot brakes and i am always worrying about hot brakes while manually braking

[@jibulissan]

New to Xplane, would like to buy any one, price is same now, which one would you recommend??

[@cgmendez95]

Does the current FF A320 simulates failures as the Toliss do ?

[@ByT1mothy]

Why he didnt give lil bit forward pressure at takeoff?

[@Dg-zj6jo]

how come the two small screens not modlled

[@Dg-zj6jo]

i love airbus and he make it look easy

[@CookingwithNing]

Currently I don't have any of the TolisS or the FF A320 yet but looking to get one. which would you guys recommend. I ve been looking around and I think Toliss are a little cheaper if not much diff I ll go with Toliss. Thanks you.

[@-jacobkuca5168]

Ffa320.. with bss, most realistic thing ever.

[@fs2004lll]

what versions were these when you did this video?

[@Sinbad683]

Would any of these planes in Xplane 11, help you in anyway with the Airbus Type Rating? I'm curious

[@ShakthiKabilan]

Sinbad683 i have toliss 321 for xplane , so i find its good. It will really help in your type rating. Still didnt try the ff320. But i like fslabs 320 on my P3D.

[@Sinbad683]

@@ShakthiKabilan Oh nice, thanks for your response. I'm still working on my PPL. LOL

[@Incidental104]

Then we have jardesign which I paid $60 for waste of money...

[@Nyx19772]

yes, the jardesign a320 is a total waste of money

[@whyilovethemoon]

Shouldn’t the lit fire test lights be cut in half if the test is being made with only battery power?

[@whyilovethemoon]

And after external power connection, shouldn’t there be some initialization sounds/beeps?

[@whyilovethemoon]

Also with the ToLiss overhead: You can turn on wipers without any power lol

[@xplane11tutorials51]

Should I get a319 or a320

[@rythmflow1727]

one basic difference is that Toliss is cracked.. but FF is not.. and the price is of the FF is high.. we are not all getting paid as pilots.. :)

[@crazykosmikbunny]

Decided to not waste money on overpriced and abandoned FF320 and got toliss. Couldn't be happier.

[@blumac9801]

Zuikis how is it abandoned if it’s had over 100 updates since it was launched? Only thing I don’t like about toliss is the horrible textures and bad modeling in some systems

[@jumpnrun3368]

if a 319 is a hotrod... then what is a 318 :D

[@0603033936]

a drag racer

[@blumac9801]

Jump N´ Run what about the A317? JK

[@DavidAmmerlaan]

No flex for takeoff?

[@ejb1992]

that is not "makdu" its emcedeyuuuu