I Was Terrified Of Getting A Heat Pump From Octopus Here's Why

[@NicolasRaimo]

Not an Octopus Customer join and split £100 with me evnick.com/energy Getting a heat pump SPLIT £200 with me and get £100 off your install use my unique referral code: 87680

[@philipbroggio9315]

It is totally the fault of the government that houses only 6 years old are not heat pump ready. Cameron cut the green crap so your house was not designed for low temperature systems . We had an Octopus heat pump installed in 2022 and it was designed for 50⁰ flow. 1990s 4 bed detached house with 270 mm loft insulation , cavity wall insulation and modern double glazing. It works really well . We had 11/14 rads replaced and had an existing airing cupboard. It definitely heats house well and is cheaper than gas . No regrets .

[@Group51]

They cut the building standards. I recall it was meant to be net zero by 2016. False economy for house builder profits.

[@itekani]

Yeah, that's insane. It shouldn't be heat pump ready. It should HAVE a heat pump already.

[@andrewallen9918]

@@Group51They didn’t cut the building standards as such but as you intimated they did stop the zero carbon homes standard from going ahead; that should’ve been a crime as it will have caused premature deaths, increased hospital admissions, financial stresses due to higher bills and has exacerbated the divide between rich and poor for no good reason. In Ireland passivhaus developments are actually being built for the same cost as traditional builds.

[@skiiddy]

The heat geek guy has a Viessman CHP - converts gas to hydrogen and generates electricity. He’s talking about changing over to an ASHP though.

[@Lewis_Standing]

Already done ​@@skiiddy. Did a video about doing it in a single day

[@edwardlamb]

Good video! The micro-bore issue and small radiator issue is an interesting one as one of the comments I hear is that 'you need a modern house, etc.!' We had ours (7kWh Vaillant) installed last June and it's been great. First cold snap in November took us by surprise a bit and we decided to upgrade 2 radiators in our main living space. Aside from that, all good! Steady 18.5-20C all day every day with a COP of 4.8. We're in a 1950s end terrace. Hope you manage to overcome your issues 🙂

[@juliandclarke]

Had our Daikin ASHP for almost 3 years. Replaced oil boiler. 210m2 bungalow built 2001. ASHP working really well. We have 10mm pipe drops to radiators from 28mm mainlines. No radiator or pipe changes. Go for it Nic

[@vmanthani]

how much it costed after govt grant

[@juliandclarke]

@@vmanthani cost will be dependent on your situation. We paid same for ASHP as we did for an oil boiler 8 years previously. Good value

[@Pete-rf6zz]

We had a heat pump fitted by octopus, daiken, and it's great better than our old combi boiler by far. 80s property, 3 bed semi. It does have a water tank with the heat pump, I do think sometimes it's too warm so you could go for smaller rads. But I'm very happy with it. 👍👍

[@Majere613]

There's a lot of resistance from engineers who install traditional gas boilers to heat pumps, unfortunately. I was chatting to a guy from our local firm last year, who does a lot of work on our business, and he was adamant that they didn't work and were never a good idea. He trotted out a lot of the usual arguments and given that I'm an IT guy and he installs boilers for a living I wasn't going to waste time debating the issue. I'm planning a new build of my own, though, and you can bet that place is being designed from the ground up for solar and a heat pump.

[@martingill6996]

There’s no doubt that they do work but the rest of the heating system must be made/adapted to suit the application of the heat pump. Your doing a new build so no worries there 👍🏼

[@steventostevin3085]

If you designe when building new there probable ok but if with a lot of property now designed with a combi and solid floors amor laminated then theres problems and the cost goes up for instance building a airing cupboard finding space for them there enormous larger pipes all increasing cost

[@hughmarcus1]

To focus on the source of heating or power is to put the cart before the horse. What’s important is to get a proper system of insulation, air tightness & ventilation. Once you’ve got those right any heating system will be economical

[@brackcycle9056]

Amazing the resistance to opportunity ! .. Huge tax payer subidy to trigger a 20 year plumbing bonanza , 30m homes to be re-plumbed . Rather than just swapping in new combies ! Especially as the BUS grant seems aimed at saving the plumbing industry . The alternative Air to Air heat pumps installed by A/C guys is being sidelined , even tho it has some advantages over A2W. Cheaper , faster to install, faster to heat the room you want heated., better COP (perhaps). A £3k grant for A2A would get more homes decarbonized for less.

[@gug1970]

@@hughmarcus1 Just what i was thinking.

[@plasticcreations7836]

According to HeatGeeks microbore doesnt have to be an issue for heat pumps. AFAIK the way to test it on your current gas boiler is to turn down the flow temperature to around 50 degrees and see if you can still maintain the temperature you want. My house has got microbore and ive had the flow temp set to 50 for quite a while and ive not noticed any difference.

[@rhiantaylor3446]

I have a recent gas boiler and my gas consumption always rises hugely in the coolest months of the year which should be no surprise. The problem for Heat Pumps is that these are exactly the months when the COP falls to the lowest in the year - you used a figure of 2. I guess what I am saying is people should not be taken in by anybody talking about average COP values - the only thing that matters is the winter COP value when it is 0 deg C outside and you have the highest demand for heat.

[@SlowhandGreg]

I did an extension and refurbishment with double insulation where possible including ripping up the floors, the house was 1935 so needed a whole host of other jobs, don't have a het pump but went for underfloor and an eco vaillant on boiler it uses very little energy

[@paulgoffin8054]

Octopus fitted our heat pump in December. We have 10mm microbore (and a bigger house). It's doing fine. It was no problem during the cold snap. Now working on tweaking the settings to get even better performance as, at the moment, there's a tendency for the house to overheat.

[@Lewis_Standing]

50C flow temperature? What SCOP are you getting?

[@paulgoffin8054]

@@Lewis_Standing Octopus design for 50C at the local minimum (-3 for me). We're running with WC with the curve set to 38 @ -8. Cop is around 3.6, but we've only had it since mid December.

[@barryjames5879]

Thanks for the information Paul. Much appreciated. Would like to keep in touch to learn from your experience on behalf our local community?

[@MichaelFlatman]

I've found that older houses can actually be more 'heatpump ready' than newbuilds due to the radiator sizing issue. If the heating system is fairly old, it likely predates microbore, and radiators were typically big flat panel radiators without many fins on them, sized for a house with minimal loft insulation and drafty windows. Upgrading the windows and loft insulation makes the heating system 'oversized' by some degree (most houses have done this already, to boost the EPC up), and for the final push you can upgrade a lot of these large flat panel radiators to convector radiators if they are standard lengths, with minimal changes to pipework. It seems such a shame so many new build houses have tiny radiators, and limited upgrade paths.

[@sav0]

i live in 1 50's built house 8mm microbore and have a 7kw heatpump and it works fine .house is heated to 21 degrees during winter 24/7 and my total electricity bill for the winter months was £165 all i did was change the single radiators to double they all remained the same size apart from the depth.

[@itekani]

Interesting to hear. I live in Sweden and my house that was built in 1984 had a heatpump taking the heat out of the outgoing ventilation air to heat the tap water. The incoming air and water radiators were heated by electricity directly. This is "factory made" house, nothing fancy at all. The house heating part had some problems after we moved in and we changed it to a Nibe F470 in 2011, I think, and then a job to put proper 100 mm vent pipes for the incoming air. Originally there was just some wierdly small plastic pipes for incoming air, only the outgoing air was the proper size. The radiator piping is only 12 mm I believe, and the radiators are of the thin type, but as the air is also heated it manages just fine. What kind of ventilation does a house like yours come with? Here the standard solution to heating and ventilation was simplified in the 90's to just pulling air out from kitchen and bathrooms and capturing the heat with an air to water heatpump. Heating by water radiators or floor. So heating and ventilation all in one unit but with only vents for taking in fresh (cold) air from the outside.. Heating the incoming air is not that common. Piping outside of the house sounds like a very bad idea. Back to the drawing board on that one? I hope you can make it. No solar panels and batteries in the world will compensate for burning gas to heat the house. That's where the most energy is used.

[@dorsetengineering]

Ventilation in the uk is an afterthought. Trickle vents in the windows were made law in 2022. Very few people have mvhr. Most people just have an extractor fan in the bathroom. We build terrible houses that are way behind what the rest of Europe build.

[@jam99]

Planned ventilation in a UK house??! Lol! That might involve a builder reading an instruction manual.

[@decimal1815]

I'll be following this series closely. Just watched 130 new houses go up down the road from me. Not one has solar or heat pump installed, and will need a lot of modification to accommodate a heat pump retrofit. Really scandalous that regulations are still so poor.

[@showme360]

Let me tell you our story, 1963 detached 3 bed bungalow with only loft insulation. We research our own needs and chose an LG Therma V 9kw monobloc unit to replace our broken Grant combi oil boiler. It was a straight swap using the same plinth extend a bit, and connected to the existing pipe work which was mixed sizes 22mm and 10mm. The rads are the same size, so nothing else has changed. We had this fitted for 2 years or 2 winters, its took a bit of time to get use to it making adjustments and we still need to improve. But we have not been cold we stick to around 19c to 20c we in our 50's and 60's and are completely happy with our ASHP. AS for hot water, like you we had no water tank and little room to place one, so we looked at a Sunamp and chose this as our hot water system. I decided on their grid heat option, which can use the solar as well on our house. But had wished I had gone for the ASHP option as this would of been a better choice for running costs. So fear not, trust in the engineers and go for it. My only remaining concern is after service, but the engineer we chose was local, young, and experienced in air con and heating system for both domestic and commercial applications. Good Luck!! PS we used this January on average 12.5kWh a day the peak day during this time was 30kWh, but no higher. Our is support by solar. We plan to insulated the outside walls with 10cm insulation and add more solar. This was we will cut our usage by half and gain 150% more solar. We use battery storage to run our heating. Good luck!!

[@liberatodelgreco4430]

You can check if your heating will work on a heat pump, turn your gas boiler down to between 30-40º.C

[@eddiereed5025]

You didnt mention the removal of the gas supply to the house saving on the standing charge will you be doing this and is there cost involved , also does Octopus quote include removal of existing heating boiler .

[@chrissmith2114]

Can you cook food using a heatpump ? Many people love gas for cooking, and it also pays to have a stand alone gas fire that does not need electricity to work for when the electrical power goes off ( which is happening more often in our area as the unreliability and fragility of our grid is exposed due to renewables ).... Soon UK will be like South Africa with power for only 4 hours per day.

[@rico4229]

Sure if you were that obsessed with gas , you would just keep your gas connection?

[@rico4229]

@@TONE11111 how do you figure that out? The vast majority of people who have fitted heat pumps are totally satisfied.... I certainly am ... 😁

[@jeremyallen2813]

In a few years time burning a gas inside your home and breathing in the biproducts of that will be seen as crazy. For me an induction hob is fantastic, I feel safer not have a live gas pipe coming into my home.

[@peterjones6322]

​@@chrissmith2114 There are extremely infrequent power cuts in the UK. In a prolonged power cut we can plug in our Kia EV to power the house heating and cooking. Just about all EVs will be capable of this soon.

[@rodjspowell4720]

My house was built in 1953. I had a source heat pump fitted three years ago. 10 mil micro piping. I had the walls insulated with the thermae extra insulation in the loft. The source heat pump was an LG hot water tank the whole shebang as I live in an area Where there is no mains gas the only options were oil tank gas or air source heat pump chose air source heat pump with a government grant. The whole job was done including new radiators for this particular system and I can assure you the system has worked as it should, the place is lovely and warm. Plenty of hot water and the cost has been no more than gas or oil on certain times. It’s cheaper. I’m very pleased with the system the company who fitted it clearly knew what they were doing. All the rooms were measured accurately, including windows everything And then all the information they fed into a computer program and told them what size radiators needed to be fitted and any other information that was needed such a size of a seat pump the problem is there are too many people out there who are confusing the situation with using cowboysto fit the systems I’m not doing the job properly that is when you have problems with systems that clearly are not right for your house as far as the 10 mil micro piping is concerned. It is worked perfectly okay again people giving miss information

[@insanityideas]

Gas boilers struggle to get 90% efficiency as most of the time in domestic use they are operating outside their peak efficiency range. Your TADO thermostat will help, as the efficiency goes up as flow temps go down. But 60c flow temp wont get as high as 90% efficiency. Same goes for heat pumps COP. Of 4 is not going to be hit during peak heating demand times of year. And its during peak times that you will be requesting the most heat. High COP during the summer to heat hot water is great, but not if COP drops off when it comes time to heat the whole house. Given your current setup, microbore and low output radiators will not get the best possible COP, but it will be interesting to see how high the experts at Octopus can get it using the newest tech, and what bits they choose to replace.

[@thelaserhive3368]

Nice summary Nick. I'll watch your journey with interest. My own worries are: age of house ( '80s build ); Is our boiler cupboard big enough ( I'm sure our bungalow loft won't take the tank weight); Aesthetics; and a reluctant partner ( she is adamant she does not want the tiny radiator in her workshop swapped). We've greened our house a lot with solar, battery, extra insulation but definitely fearful that a heat pump will suck all the savings we made from having the battery and solar and effectively leave us worse off and/or colder and with a system that our friendly ( and lovely) local plumber won't understand. So it's not on our list for 2024 and I'll see how you get on first!

[@NicolasRaimo]

Rule is fabric first, if you can insulate your home this is the first thing to do before heat pump so fill cavity and get some rolls in loft once your at that point your ready for a heat pump your likely need to up the rads or go underfloor heating so that could be an option if your partner doesn't want larger rads

[@adrianpike4649]

Thanks for the video. You could try running your gas boiler at a flow temperature of 50C. If it keeps the house warm then a heat pump with a flow temperature of 50C will also keep you warm.

[@michaelplunkett8059]

Great idea, do a test run.

[@NedNew]

My heat pump doesn't run well so I have set it to walk instead. I never place cans of beans or tomatoes near it because I found the price always went up afterwards. Last Tuesday our cat ate more food than normal, coincidentally the heat pump used over 20kWh that day.

[@Jaw0lf]

First time I have seen your channel. I was amazed how lowthe quote from Octopus was. I had an Air Source Heat Pump fitted two years ago. At that time I had upgraded my roof insulation to 270mm but my 1970's detached 5 bedroom house, had an old broken down cavity wall insulation. This was replaced last year and I was told it was that bad it was as if I had none fitted. First year with no cavity insulation was 3500 kWh, this last year after replacing the cavity insulation, it was 2500kWh. We replaced most of our radiators as they were all 50 years old. House has been heated to 18c, all day, with a drop by 2c overnight. We have never felt cold despite a minus 10c temperature overnight. Solar does very little in the winter which is when we want it for the ASHP. The ASHP is not noisy and if well planned it fitted will work very well and cheaper, with a chance that some of it will be covered by solar or one of Octopuses energy plans. I also have no regrets and it saves me money. When the government finally move green levies from electricity to gas this will change figures massively.

[@andywillsfilm]

I have a Mitsubishi heat pump, cost to install was £13,000, which is serviced annually by Mitsubishi. All my radiators have been upgraded and the pipe work around the property is 28mm with 15mm to the radiators. My property a bungalow built in 1979, has cavity wall insulation 300mm insulation in the loft and double glazing. The best COP I get is circa 2.5, the 4 COP like most of the sales talk is a fairy tale. The sales guy also said the ASHP unit made no more noise than a domestic fridge, true in the summer when you don’t need it apart from the DHW, but when these things have to try and cope with anything sub 5c then it’s like a Boeing 747 in the garden, which incidentally the ASHP is sited between me and my neighbours property which is about 5m away, so he’s not happy at all. To top it all the cost of running this thing is double my old gas combi boiler and when it’s sub 0c outside it does not heat the property sufficiently, i.e in my living room to any more than 19c. I had the gas taken out of the property at the time of install as did not want to pay extortionate standing charges, so I was left with a dilemma, rip out the ASHP, have the gas put back in and a combi boiler at god nos what cost, or heat the property with electric radiators all of which would be very expensive given I’m still paying the loan for the ASHP. Or go completely left field and have a wood burning stove fitted? I chose the later, it’s a lot of work with lighting it, cleaning the stove glass and you need a shed to keep the wood .Okay I hear you scream, that’s not environmentally friendly, but at least I’m warm in the winter and at half the cost of running the ASHP. So the moral of this story is don’t believe the bullshit sales hype, the whole thing is just a gimmick so that the government can tick a climate change box.

[@ianrob4760]

Just changed to an ASHP (Daikin) and working well for heating and hot water etc took 6 days to fit for technical reasons however love it now. I had no issues with the radiators as house is from the 50's and a terrace ... saved already 120 on one months gas bill and electric was 30 quid more than last year (Jan)

[@ecoterrorist1402]

one example that you can do, switch the boiler 24/7 reduce flow temps say 40 see what the internal temps are after 24hrs,

[@mrgirling1840]

I like that idea as a trial run before committing to a HP

[@NicolasRaimo]

Be an unfair test as bigger rads would be part of spec

[@Group51]

@@NicolasRaimo no, that would be to test if you really need new radiators or if you have enough insulation that you don’t.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@Group51 running at 55c currently totally fine I did run at 40 and some rooms struggled others fine

[@leexgx]

55c is what I use, 20.5c downstairs target(all downstairs rads open no trvs due to open plan no doors use nest to turn off heat) 20c upstairs target (Aqara trvs on all rads upstairs)

[@colinharvey1049]

I had a quote from them before the extend grant and to be honest price just seemed to low. Have a new build with microbore. Will watch your project with much interest hope all goes well.

[@MichaelBeeny]

I'm surprised you think that big blob looks better than a standard heat pump. To me it looks like a big kid's toy!! You did say that a heat pumps efficiency drops with temperature. What you did not say is that it will frequently freeze up and shut down completly a couple of times an hour and be in defrost mode for about 10 minuets at a time. This happens here in NZ. The UK has much colder and longer winters than NZ. Here we use a heat pump to heat air, not water, this also gives us cooling in the summer, your system will not do that. The air system gives near instant heat. I would expect your system to take quite a bit of time to get going.

[@gregevans8939]

I agree... that new Octopus unit looks awful to me too... I suspect a lot of them will end up being re-painted ! The defrosting thing is a function of temperature and humidity... so that may explain your frequent de-frosts. ASHPs in the UK do need to defrost too, but we tend to have a fairly temperate climate... so it's not such an issue... we can configure ASHP systems to cool too (we you get cold radiators in the summer)... but that's often way too complicated to explain to the general public...

[@colingoode3702]

The Octopus Cosy 6 HP operates on R290 refrigerant (Propane) in a sealed system so it can reach higher water temps than the majority of other systems that use R32 refrigerant. This is why the Cosy 6 can operate with microbore systems & run at higher water temps with minimal radiator changes. However, to get the best COP out of any Heat Pump you have to run them at the lowest water temps possible. So when you get your survey / quote for the Cosy 6 make sure you find out what water temps they are basing their calcs on. Running any heat pump at higher water temps will cost more to run which will deliver lower COP figures. A Cosy 6 running at 70-80c water temp in winter is going to cost more to run than a HP system running at 45-50c or, even lower (35c) for an underfloor heating system. I have 10mm microbore pipework but would need the bigger Octopus Cosy HP that is not yet available so for now I'm sticking with my 4 year old boiler.

[@bazcurtis178]

I was quoted for a 4 kWh heat pump by Octopus. I was interested in the Cosy 6, but they didn’t have any installation dates yet and it would seem it would be overkill for me.

[@NicolasRaimo]

They haven't shown any details yet for cosy6 or mentioned its refrigerant from what I can see are you guessing its propane passed on them saying it can hit high temps as I have another theory around this! They also told me microbore design for them would work with the non cosy system

[@gregevans8939]

Why are you considering replacing a 4 yo boiler (I assume gas ?) with an ASHP ??

[@colingoode3702]

@@gregevans8939 Eventually I want to go all electric & loose the gas.

[@gregevans8939]

Losing the gas standing charge is a big saving these days... although you need to make sure you're not with a supplier who charges you to remove the meter ! @@colingoode3702

[@MattyFreedom]

Octopus won't do my house, as it's a bit bigger than average. I run my boiler low for the heating at 55 to ensure a) The condensing part of the boiler gets used and b) Long and low makes the room feel warm, rather than just the air. With Octopus Tracker gas at 4.0p, I really doubt replacing all my rads, tanks, pipework and whatever else is needed will ever be cost effective, so maybe Octopus are wise to that. It's a 2001 build house and is insulated quite well, other than the garage which I have now sorted out myself. We also have a gas hob and gas fire in the lounge, so that would have to be factored in if we did want to switch to a heat pump. I am paying about 1/3 for gas after all my insulation efforts, move to tracker, tweaking of the boiler and radiator settings with no degradation of experience. There is a lot of confusion over what is optimal settings for boilers out there, but long and low works well for me.

[@KJSvitko]

Blower door testing and air leak sealing are under appreciated tools for increasing energy efficiency and comfort.

[@simonmatthews7512]

Hi Nick. I'm really pleased you're doing this. I've been umming and ahhing (are those real words?) about heat pumps for a year or two now and watching you go through the process will hopefully make things much clearer. Good luck I'm really hoping this works well.

[@SlowhandGreg]

I've not got a heat pump but speckled the system to be heat pump ready our house has a new extension is 1935 I went to town on insulation ripped up all the floors double insulated and fitted underfloor on the ground floor. Plus large water tank with thermal solar. From April to mid October the heating was near permanent off. As an example one of the old rooms we replaced the windows with the latest glass by the way it looses 2 degrees every 6-8 hours depending on the outside temp

[@ma40]

If your new build is anything like mine, the pipework in the ceiling will be 15mm plastic pipe, with 10mm microbore drops to the radiators. Not ideal, but will work. Given the size of your home I'd be amazed if your calculated heatless was more than 3kW at the design temperature of -3 degrees celsius. My preferred unit would be a Viessmann Vitocal 150A single fan unit, or a Vaillant Arotherm Plus 3.5kW. I'll be going with a local Heat Geek Elite to install mine.

[@DanceShowFilming]

My heat pump cost £3.5K to have installed including the £5K grant. But I also changed all the piping throughout the house and upgraded 3 Rads separately which was another £1800 on top, this done by local plumber. However, the heating is about on par with Gas in the very, very cold months, but the difference is that it runs 24/7. However, in the summer with solar panels, its free and even better, Octopus pays me for the electric I generate, which is better than what I am using. It means I don't fear putting the heating on anymore. Is it cheaper to run than a combi, oh YES! I have a 1970 bungalow, nothing special at all and it works fine.

[@tonyfeasby1437]

Yep. Same here. Super cheap quote but the trade off was pipes running everywhere like a oil refinery. There's no way the family would see the upsides.

[@briangriffiths114]

We are having a similar discussion in our household as the property is 13 years old and well insulated, but the gas boiler can't last forever. (our solar PV system is east-west and generates very little over winter) Major problem is that I was a microgeneration consultant and wrote MCS installer procedure manuals for heat pumps some 15 years ago, so I am aware of the downsides although the technology has much improved since then. Two questions; will the buffer tank also be located in your loft along with the HW tank and has the added heat loss been calculated for both of these because they will be outwith the building envelope?

[@NicolasRaimo]

Hey Brian not got to that point yet, it might even go inside yet I might have an bit of my house I can use and box off and plaster up to use as storage as my home is a modern new build the lack of storage is obvious so weirdly it might benefit me losing a little space if I can make use of it. The buffer COULD go in where the boiler is the tank could go in the loft which is a cold loft I imagine they'd put it in a jacket system and yes they'd heat loss for this Ill update on the channel as I have more information.

[@JohnR31415]

Been running my boiler at 40-45 for more than a year now… with gas meter half hourly data I have a good idea of how much input heat I need…

[@tomkacandes8286]

That is exactly the right path - well done.

[@JohnR31415]

@@tomkacandes8286 sensor on flow and return, Im pretty confident my heat pump quote was overkill in two main areas - power was higher than I need by about 80%, I’d want to overspec a bit, but probably not that far; and I clearly don’t need any radiator upgrades. On the one day in several years when we hit negative 5 then I’ll run an IR heater as well…

[@SlowhandGreg]

I've not got a heat pump but speckled the system to be heat pump ready our house has a new extension is 1935 I went to town on insulation ripped up all the floors double insulated and fitted underfloor on the ground floor. Plus large water tank with thermal solar. From April to mid October the heating was near permanent off. As an example one of the old rooms we replaced the windows with the latest glass by the way it looses 2 degrees every 6-8 hours depending on the outside temp

[@Tom-Lahaye]

With the big difference in peak and off-peak electricity prices it could be interesting to look into a heat storage solution, even when this means digging in your garden for a sub surface tank, as I understood there is not much space in the house for a tank. This way the heat pump can run on off peak hours to heat the home and charge the tank with heat, and during peak times heat is taken only from this tank. It means that you need a bit more investment on the tank and a somewhat larger heat pump, but then you save 75% compared to gas.

[@dk8435]

Been thinking about switching to a heat pump for a while but can’t help wondering if ppl are been misled when companies state COPs of 3-4 they actually mean ‘a COP of 4 in summer when gas use is very low and 2 in winter when gas use is high’ especially if the cop needs to be at 4 to be at cost parity.

[@georgearmour1154]

They absolutely mean a COP of four in the summer. I have a custom designed heat pump, pipes and huge radiators, as well as a 300litre hot water tank and 100 liter buffer tank. In the summer its a COP of four or 4.5. In the spring and autumn its less. In the winter it drops as low as .8 when its defrosting. The average through the coldest parts winter is less than two. I'm between 80p £1.00 an hour to run mine. I only have it on for 4 hours per day. I cant afford £600 or £700 a month just for the heating. I've had the flow temp turned right down. recently, in mild winter days, 5c or above it may creep over COP 2. The house very rarely gets above 19c. The house in well insulated, loft walls and floor. I had full surveys done, with all the calculations. If you possibly can, stick with gas. You will regret fitting a heat pump. I keep reading stories of people fitting heat pumps and their house is toasty and its cheaper than gas. I however have never met anyone face to face that will say that.

[@judebrown4103]

​@@georgearmour1154absolutely my feelings too, the more you look at people's lived experience the more sceptical it makes you. Unless you find a top notch Heat Geek in your area who has the experience to design the system (and you'll pay top dollar for that service) you're very likely to be the proud owner of an expensive white elephant. Besides...the fact that this government is so enthusiastic about them makes me suspicious too 😂not known for their due diligence are they?! I'm investigating a British made Infrared ceiling panel system that I can gradually install as and when I can afford it with the aim of getting rid of gas only when I'm happy it's economical to do so.

[@robertsmart7484]

@@georgearmour1154 It sounds like your ASHP system was designed properly, but are you sure was it commissioned properly? Are your weather compensation set points set correctly? I feel for you with that sort of running cost - ours used 40kWh on the coldest day in December, but averaged 16 kWh for the month. Because of the low flow temperatures, ASHPs work more efficiently if they are run continuously so that they warm up the thermal mass of the house and then run on "tickover" for the heat loss through the fabric of the house. Running them stop/start for just 4 hours a day won't heat the walls and floors enough to stay warm till the next switch on time, so the house won't get up to your required temperature, as you are finding. Our ASHP is 3 years old now, and the house is reasonably toasty, and cheaper to run than gas, designed and instaled by a heating engineering consultancy. We are retired, so have the heating on all day from 4am to 10.30pm with the Nest thermostat set to 21.5 degrees, with a setback temperature at night, So during the day most of the house is at about 21 degrees, but the living room generally at 22 degrees. The 4 bed house is well insulated, and we did replace a few radiators for larger output ones (and some for "designer" ones the same output because they looked better). Heating circulation pipework is a combination of 22mm from the heat exchanger with short 15mm branches then mostly 8mm microbore to each radiator but 10mm microbore for the longest pipe runs. So long as you can get the required flow rate through the radiators for the lower temperatures from the ASHP, the overall heat from the radiators is sufficient. We have a 200 litre hot water cylinder. The condensing gas boiler we replaced generally used 15,500 kWh of gas per year (circulation pump electricity was extra to this, unmeasured) for heating and how water. In our first year of ASHP use we used 3,451 kWh electricity for ASHP, circulation pumps and the weekly use of immersion heater for the anti-Legionella purge, in the second year 3,024 kWh, and this last year 3,177 kWh. So an average of 3,200 kWh per year , which is 21% of the energy use of our old boiler, so a ratio of 4.76 electricity to gas. We don't have direct measurement of the COP of our system, and the manufacturer's stated Seasonal COP for out ASHP is 3.75. Fuel prices seem to be changing all the time, but standard fixed tariffs seem to have electricity as 4x the price of gas, so our ASHP would be cheaper to run than our old gas boiler. In practice, since we are on an EV tariff and have solar PV and a storage battery, our overall imported electricity costs are much less than if we were on a standard tariff. In the Spring and Autumn the heating is run from the battery stored off-peak electricity at 7.5p/kWh.

[@leet3707]

Instead, I installed 2x oversized Air Conditioning units at £1900. Thus gives all the heating benefits without the hassle. Cooling in Summer - massive bonus. Now running 31kwh batteries, upgrading 4x 250w PV Panels to 6x 435w to total.8kw. OK- not.hot water but I do still have a Gas boiler for those very cold days and Blackouts. Heat is instant and I've saved £1000's. Don't know why others overlook Air Conditioning as heat sources, but hey, it's their money.. Upstart runs a 6.5 (24,000BTU).and downstairs has a 3.5kw (12,000BTU).Summerhouse also has a 12000BTU - awesome chill room in summer. It will be a long time before I ever entertain one.

[@chrissmith2114]

If your newbuild house has flaws does that mean you can use a heatpump with low flow temp and fit 'under flaw heating'...

[@DanEVSolar7]

Currently reviewing my options at the moment and have many of the same concerns. Also have a newish house with a combi boiler like you too. Im not too concerned that it won’t heat the house, but certainly around radiators that will need replacing, where it will go, where will the tank go, will it cost me more, etc. I think I will go for it at some point but will definitely need to understand more about the install.

[@gregevans8939]

The age of a house is not really relevant... (the media tell fibs !) there are many many many examples of perfectly working systems in houses that are >100 years old. Secondly... why do you think that a properly installed ASHP system will not heat your house ?? The biggest single factor to a successful ASHP system is how well it's been designed. The second is how it's been installed. The vast majority of systems with problems have been installed by plumbers who simply didn't understand how they work and thought they could just throw them in like they do with a gas boiler.

[@DanEVSolar7]

@@gregevans8939 The age of the house is quite relevant as the level of insulation/age of house will be what determines the COP. I have no concerns it wouldn’t heat the house. I’m pretty sure it would be fine if installed correctly. Totally agree though, most of it is down to the installation and finding a good installer.

[@gregevans8939]

​@@DanEVSolar7 Hi Dan... The COP is merely the electrical energy input divided by the heat energy output... So if 1kWh of electricity is used to give you 4kWh of heat... that gives a SCOP of 4. Notice that in calculating this, I have at no time mentioned how well insulated your house is (nor it's age). The level of insulation will affect how much heat you need (to heat your house to the right level in comparison to the external temperature). So a well insulated house may only need (say) 2kW to maintain 21°C on a particular day, compared to a less well insulated house that may need 4kW. But the first house will draw say 500W and the second one 1kW.... The COP will be identical for each house. This is why it's not really true that ASHPs don't work in older houses. (they just cost a bit more to run, and may need larger emitters etc.... in exactly the same way that a gas boiler system would !) Also, it's better to look at a (Seasonal)COP... rather than a COP... the SCOP is for a far longer period... ideally a whole year. The COP just goes up and down all the time depending on outside temp, inside temp & hot water demand etc. However a SCOP will give you a more realistic and sensible measure for how efficient (or otherwise) the ASHP system is. Hope all that helps...

[@DanEVSolar7]

Yeah thanks. Wrong terminology but the additional power required to heat a less well insulated home was what I was getting at. 👍

[@brianmorrow4494]

had octopus round last year just before the bus grant increased. didnt actually get a quote as they said that they couldnt fit a new tank in the space where an old tank had been years agao !!! went to and fro a few times with them and agreed to call it a day. Currently on a combi running at 45 degrees (for the last 18months) with 10mm microbore from a 22mm spine system and the house is warm enough. BG wanted 12k (inc the 7.5k grant) to rip out every rad and pipe in the house and start again. CB heating wanted to install a big 8kw high temp unit and replace some rads. they didnt seem to understand my concern about an oversized unit!!. My calcs say a 5kw unit is fine. getting to the stage where in might just do it all myself and sod the bus grant.

[@SteveHuckle]

I've had an Octopus heat pump for a few months now. Mine is a 150 yer-old cottage that I've managed to get up to a B-rated EPC thanks to all its insulation, solar panels, and batteries. The heat pump (and all new radiators) was unbelievably cheap (next to nothing - thanks to the government BUS grant), and it runs like a dream. In fact, it's much cheaper to run than my old gas boiler because of my solar setup. AND NO MORE GAS - HUZZAH! It's criminal that all new builds aren't fitted with this stuff...

[@neo_265]

Very interesting.....thought it would cost way more than that. Im in a similar position in that I have a combi and no hot water cylinder......or a place to store it. Luckily all my main flow/return pipework is 22mm and rad pipework 15mm. My current combi is too powerful for my 130sqm 4 bed detached home which sounds nuts, but then you realise the majority of UK homes have an overpowered boiler, mainly for hot water on demand but the heating side is too powerful. The lowest I can run the flow temp is 58 degrees......although it's set to 55 degrees, if I set it any lower the boiler short cycles even though I have 13 radiators. My boiler just cycles on/off all day so I know a heat pump will comfortably tick over and work well. My other option is to upgrade my combi to one that auto modulates via weather comp or load comp. Sounds like the heat pump install may be cheaper that a boiler swap. Check out Urban Plumbers' content......some great videos on heap pumps there.

[@jamie-ck6js]

Nice video. A 5 year warranty would be a concern for such an expensive system considering there would be no grant next time around. For context my combi comes with an all in parts and labour 12 year manufacturer warranty. I also believe the the 5 year warranty is subject to having an annual "service" carried out. It is not a deal breaker, but just something to be aware of, the last thing you want is an 8k bill 6 years down the road.

[@gregevans8939]

ASHP servicing is not much more than cleaning it ! It's basically a fridge (but in reverse)... so does anyone ever worry that the fridge will break down ?? My old Mum had a fridge that was like 30 years old... and still going strong ! My fridge is at least 15 years old... and I have no thoughts of changing it. There are so many scare stories out there... that simply are not true. (Maybe I'm tempting fate here... from what I see, the new £7.5k grant has meant that a whole load of cowboys are now making some very large profits... just by throwing a unit it and running away ! And as you can imagine the MCS do very very little to police them...)

[@jamie-ck6js]

@@gregevans8939If they were anything like a fridge they would not cost about £10k to buy and install. And if there was zero chance of them breaking down, why only warranty it for 5 years? I am not saying they are a bad idea, but 5 years is not that long when you consider the implications if something goes wrong.

[@gregevans8939]

@@jamie-ck6js Fairly sure that I didn't say zero chance of them breaking down... just that they should be very reliable (if basic routine maintenance is carried out... like keeping the outside unit clean). The 5 year warranty is probably because they don't have enough data on them yet to be able to know if they can offer longer. The whole warranty thing is interesting... you can buy two identical gas boilers... one of which is twice the price of the other (but comes with a 10 year warranty). So it's priced in. I suspect that will happen with ASHPs eventually.

[@darrenadams2640]

​​@@jamie-ck6jsAs an example, I have run heat pumps (A2A) at home for over 22 years without a single issue. Admittedly they are used mainly as aircon through the summer but also as single room heating during the winter. I have never had them serviced, I just make sure the outside units are kept clear/clean and had a chemical clean of the indoor units a handful of times and regular filter clean (with just a vaccum). It's pretty much the same tech as a A2W HP and they have a reputation of being reliable and lasting a lot longer than a boiler, especially condensing combis.

[@jamie-ck6js]

@@darrenadams2640 So what percentage of heatpumps do you think might experience a serious issue between say 5 and 10 years?

[@KJSvitko]

Large roof over hangs are beautiful and protect the doors, windows and siding from rain and moisture damage. Water is the enemy of buildings. Architects and home builders need to bring back large roof over hangs

[@Muppetkeeper]

The heat loss survey is the key here. Don’t make the assumption that your existing heating system was even designed at all, most 6 year old houses had their system sizes guessed by a bloke back in the office. I’ve seen engineering calculations that show you can get up to 1kW of heating through 10mm microbore, which is more than enough for most rooms. Even with Octopus, you want the LOWEST design flow temperature as possible, it saves you a fortune in running costs., ask them for the lowest flow design you can get. You will probably have a low flow temp with just K2 radiators, which aren’t too bad. I know most of your worries are for videos clicks, but you’ll be ok.

[@ScrapKing73]

The longer I listened, the less I understood. Here in British Columbia, heat pumps in older homes have generally replaced oil furnaces, not gas boilers. In newer homes, heat pumps are usually small mini-split units. I’m going to have to read up on all this stuff about radiators and boilers, as it sounds quite different.

[@NicolasRaimo]

In the UK we use gas boilers to heat water that run via pipes to radiators to release heat our heat pump is air to water or ground to water where your systems are air to air

[@ScrapKing73]

@@NicolasRaimo Oh wow, that's crazy different. It has the advantage of being able to tie in the hot water heater. Here in Canada, heat pumps are typically standard air-sourced heat pump that then pushes air into the room from a vent.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@ScrapKing73 correct our air to water system heat a cylinder of storage water for demand like showers and baths. The system doesn’t work for cooling in winter months however but has the advantage water is a great liquid for heat storage and delivery as the radiators are on a closed loop the water returns back to be heated again so efficiency is greatly improved also “wet” heating is more warming than air and tends to dry out human skin less and some other small advantages

[@bazcurtis178]

I’ve had my quote from Octopus. £600 including the £500 for the survey. We have paid that and the total cost will be £100. We have 10mm micro bore pipes. We are in a 7 year new build. We need planning permission as we a 1 db over the limit. I have yet to decide if we will go ahead. We also have solar and a 9.6 kWh of battery storage. My Mum is having her heat pump installed in a 20 year old bungalow in two weeks, again via Octopus. She is having more radiators swapped out and a new towel rail fitted. I am interested to see her running cost as a baseline. She has an old gas boiler.

[@pb871]

Interesting video. How many bedrooms does your house have? I have 4 bed detached, microbore downstairs and was quoted £3500 by Octopus a while back...but I think that may have been before the grant went up from £5000. My gas boiler is 12 years old now so it's tempting. But like you, the microbore pipe work worries me.

[@TheRepublicOfYhonai]

Its so frustrating to see certain media outlets attempting to make heat pumps some kind of culture war issue. They do work, but they must be installed correctly, its as simple as that!

[@blobstrom]

I am looking at going down the air to air heat pump route, getting rid of radiators, which then gives me air con in the summer. I already have them in our bedroom and living room for quite a few years now which has been a godsend on them hot days and nights we have now and then. This of course doesn't take into account the hot water issue, although a heat pump hot water tank could be an option.

[@georgearmour1154]

I originally went with an air to air system in our kitchen dining room. Efficient and cost effective. This is what convinced me that air to water would be nearly as efficient. Big mistake. Heating freezing cold water in the dead of winter to heat radiators takes a lot more energy than heating air already in the house. I wish I had gone for zoned air to air instead of air to water. Air to air run at about 15 to 20p per hour set at 21c, on cold days. Air to water 80p to 100p per hour set at 21c, whether or not you turn off radiators in some of the rooms. The problem is that there are no incentives for fitting air to air. The Octopus heat pump tariff doesn't accept air to air only air to water. There no way on this green earth that a heat pump will warm homes that are not very well insulated and draught proofed, and even then, don't expect toasty. There a reason that heat pump fitters recommend a secondary heating source to supplement heat pumps in the winter. I've fitted a log burner.

[@brackcycle9056]

Is the Cosy6 here yet ? I have asked for the spec but heard nothing. For me quietness is more important than looks . Spec for Vaillant is quieter than Daikin . but don't know how that is in actual running.

[@KavanOBrien]

I-like your mind = a very detailed person you are , I was thinking of changing my gas boiler also to a heat pump so will be interested in your follow up videos , so with the new look of the heat pump you then won’t mine it going at the back of your property because not so big ?

[@NicolasRaimo]

I want it to go in an area where I just have some shrubs which isn't useable space currently that's where it makes the most sense.

[@CarFinanceSimplified]

Really interesting and something I am starting to consider. With the latest IOG prices of 7.5p / 25p and gas tracker prices remaining around the 4.5p level, I can't decide whether it would be beneficial or not. I am moving to a house soon with an oil fired boiler and may need to purchase a new oil tank. With the oil tank around £3000 fitted, it might be worthwhile be going for a heat pump instead of a new tank?! Decisions decisions!

[@t4bs594]

Just wanted to mention that not all gas boilers are 90% efficient. some older boilers could be a lot less, especially if the gas boiler is not condensing.

[@geoffellins9081]

I look forward to your journey because i also have a six year old four bedroom house with microbore pipes coming from the radiators ( which are very small ) and am looking at getting a heat pump installed. I also have the problem of having an integral garage and the rooms around this are colder so have you had this problem at all?. I think i will need a new garage door at the same time.

[@robsmith1a]

I have a 50 year old flat I let and ended up replacing the microbore pipes because they kept blocking up. Nowhere to put a heat pump there and Octopus say my house isn't suitable for their product. Good info on the planning laws because at present if I did get a heat pump I'd need planning permission because of the proximity of the adjoining property. My boiler is very old but keeps going, I'm definitely holding fire for now on any changes for the time being.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Planning laws due to change VERY soon, a system for flats is around known as a shoebox heat pump its ground soruce heatpump with 1 central bore hole for all the flats

[@robsmith1a]

@@NicolasRaimo Thank you - great info

[@chrismawby1805]

I am waiting for Octopus to come and survey our house, I will be very surprised if they say it’s suitable for a heat pump, the house was built in 1927 with solid brick walls, I had a extension built about 25 years ago with cavity walls so the house is two thirds solid brick and the extension walls cavity. Strangely they sent me a provisional quote for £3300. It’s going to be interesting to see what they come up with.

[@davidstorm4015]

Don't consider a heat pump unless you can run it at flow temperatures of between 30c and 45c, any higher than that and it will start to cost you more money. I wouldn't be too concerned about the 'ugly' 3 panel radiators, once installed you barely notice them and they don't really look much worse than a single panel of the same dimensions. If your house's heat loss is relatively small, then the microbore pipes shouldn't be an issue as long as your radiators are of sufficient size. Gas engineers are often scaremongerers who do not understand how to install or configure heat pumps and quite frankly they don't want to understand. As long as you do your research and choose the right installation, then run the heat pump in weather compensation mode at the lowest fkow temps that keep your house warm, you shouldn't have any issues.

[@wajopek2679]

Good luck in your decision! I’m all for the tech. if it works and you have the space but no one will buy your house in future if you have a monstrosity in the garden that can barely keep your house warm and costs more in electricity than what your efficient gas boiler can deliver today. If the pipes need changing then change them. Lastly, one HP on an estate maybe quiet enough but get 10 adjoining houses and you will have a “drone noise” in the background. Looking forwards to future videos.

[@JurassicJungle]

We had BG around to do a survey but Octopus don't cover our area yet. BG were not at all flexible in locations and pipe runs. Like you we didn't want pipes all over the place so found an alternative installer who worked with us to put pipes under our garage floor. We got a Daikin pump with a 5 year warranty but then found you ONLY get this if you sign up for a service contract that is sveral hundred pounds a year which is very dissapointing. We hoped we could get a service contract with BG as they are installing the same Daikin pumps but they are not currwntley offering this. It is hard for us to judge costs yet as our house is half build and not well insulated but we hope that with solar and battery it will work out well. Look forward to following your journey.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Scottish power offer a heat pump service worth checking that out

[@michalrybinski3233]

The price is close to what I got, mine was 1040, also in a new build (5y) but with water tank already installed and copmatible. I agree that this is quite cheap, but the thing is, although I also have 7.5p during the night and batteries in garage, the cost of electricity increase, even if divided by COP would still turn out to be more expensive than running on gas atm. Also, I have a Genius Hub system installed controlling each radiator and room separately to specified scheduled temperature. This system will nto work with heat pump as it pratically creates one big heating zone. This is one of the biggest deal breakers for me, along the cost of electricity. So, yes, the quote is very appealing, but I will not be getting it as it just does not make sense in my current house and circumstances. And as you mentioned, those money can be spend on other things, having maybe even greater impact than changing boiler now.

[@roberthuntley1090]

Interesting video. I'm not planning to fit a heat pump anytime soon, but like to plan ahead of the game. My 1990's built house also has small radiators and 10 mm microbore. Over the year's I've established a rule of thumb that I need to set the boiler flow temperature to 65C minus the coldest outside temperature. As an example, 68C when its minus 3 outside, more typically 60 C. As such, there is no way that I can see getting down to heat pump friendly temperatures with enlarging the radiators. That temperature takes at least 2 to 3 hours to bring the house up to temperature so not quite the 24/7 running that heat pumps need, but tolerably close. I very much doubt that I would achieve a high enough COP to compensate for the higher unit cost of electricity. What sort of flow temperature does your automated system normally run at on a cold winter's day? Re location of the heat pump, my main concern is noise. Something in the news last week about a sex toy outlet (Love Honey) in Bath fitting heat pumps without planning permission and getting complaints from their neighbours, There was a similar one about a Norfolk school which made the news just before Xmas.

[@darrenadams2640]

Note that there are green levies on electricity which are currently keeping the price high. This does not make sense and hopefully it will change which would hopefully make a big difference.

[@davidsamways]

Great video. Couldn't help but smile when you talked about wanting to be warm in your home since you're wearing in a t-shirt in January! Save the planet by turning down your heating to 18 degrees and put on some more clothes!

[@NicolasRaimo]

Haha am recording in a studio… it’s heated to wear a t-shirt plus am northern. However house needs to be warm with youngsters in it and I brought a modern insulated house my co2 output is far less than others who heat there homes to lower temps and factor in the car/solar/battery our household co2 is tiny

[@Driffer7614]

I have a heat pump in, but none seems to know how it works,, I mean trying to get the warm enough to heat the house

[@philreilly6959]

Hi Nick, Like you, I had decided to wait for the Cosy 6 heat pump (when my re-survey has happened on Monday). Now I don't think it's a good idea. I've watched the "Upside down fork" video this morning. If you haven't seen it, then you should have a look. MCS have tested the Cosy 6 and the results aren't very good. I thought you should know! Best wishes, Phil

[@NicolasRaimo]

It’s worth noting test lab result never copy real world it’s best compared against other heat pumps

[@JoshuaStringfellow1]

Incredibly frustrating that we were still building microbore homes in the UK as recently as 6 years ago, please please tell me that's still not the case 😬

[@NicolasRaimo]

Still the case… I believe however it’s only down to rads

[@JoshuaStringfellow1]

@@NicolasRaimo I guess that's not quite as bad then, still not great! Also, you might have said it in the video and I missed it (watched it all but got interrupted a couple times), if so sorry - but the reason Octopus are happy to install their heat pump in homes with micro bore is that they're installing a high temperature heat pump, so you don't need such a high flow rate, making it a near drop in replacement for a boiler (except needing a DHC of course).

[@bibihunden]

Half the temperature like 70C down to 35C, is 1/4 of the heat energy, 8mm pipes sounds crazy small, and all heat pumps makes noises, also at night when you and your neighbors are going to sleep. COP of 4...yes when its warm outside, not in the could wintertime. Greetings from Denmark.

[@georgearmour1154]

Correct

[@tmd63]

How have you dealt with the wide range of power needed for solar? My home runs at a minimum 150W for 50% time, 300W at around 45% of the time, then it peaks at 15kW when the shower and kettle are on, for about 5% or 1 hour. I cannot find inverters that will run at 300W nominal but peak to 15kW!

[@NicolasRaimo]

Thats what the grid is for.... Your not going to meet that peak load but solar and inverters will reduce amount from the grid, my system I have my solar on micro inverters and then a AC coupled battery with 10 panels I can make 2900watts and my inverter can do 5000 watts giving me just under 8kw maximum but for that I'd need full sun. You could get a 15kw inverter but the costs are going to outweigh the benefits of a home user, going to heat pump means I can get rid of electric shower and feed it from tank

[@johnholmes5674]

I’ll be sticking with my 28 yr old potterton profile gas boiler. That and the wood burner.

[@alistairlambert3275]

I agree but filling my woodsheds is going to cost a fortune, coal has nearly doubled.

[@t4bs594]

So, you're probably spending twice what you need to. But each to their own. Nobody will force you to join the 21st century. It's not compulsory.

[@eddyd8745]

You're on precisely the same journey as me. I have a combi boiler and a water tank. I basically pre-heat water when cheap energy is available which stops the boiler firing up. When no cheap energy is available it just works like a normal combi. I had a quote from British Gas which was £9k after the grant. I wanted to use BG because I wanted to use a British built Vailent heat pump but I couldn't justify that cost. I've read about RED heat pumps in the past and knew that Octopus had bought them out so I thought I'd give them a go. They quoted £3.3k which was much better so I put down the refundable deposit and will get the survey done. I already have a Mixergy tank which is heat pump ready so I'm hoping that will work with the new Cosy 6 heat pump. Likewise, I could also do with upping my battery storage. I don't have an EV so at the moment I use Agile for incoming and Flux for outgoing which works for me.

[@paulgoffin8054]

FWIW, from other social media, it looks like a lot of the horror stories are from Eco 4 installations with stories of random tradespeople turning up over several weeks and then a "handover" of "there's the thermostat, turn it up if you're cold". Octopus aren't like that at all.

[@darrenadams2640]

I can vouch for the issues with ECO4. I had 4 companies come round to quote and most hadn't got a clue and were clearly out just to take the government money. As soon as you ask for something different to their usual offering, or an explanation of how something works or why an option was chosen, and they are lost. And this was just for a combi and Eco controls.

[@chrissmith2114]

Articles are appearing in newspapers and online about neighbours complaining about 24 hour noise from ASHP keeping them awake and meaning they cannot even open their windows due to extra noise.

[@mbak7801]

I have a professional complainer living near me. She complained about the noise from my solar panels. Needless to say they are silent. Apparently the wind 'howls under them during storms'. Ive never heard it but she is in her 80s and apparently has made a lifelong career in complaining to the council.

[@vandit83]

Na they are whisper quiet. Mine is quieter than the flu of my old combi

[@douglasreid8452]

In past I have rented houses while working away. Both ocassions the owners told me to beware of the elec costs. I was shocked at the price to run these things. Do the homework of running costs before purchase

[@geoffmansfield2668]

I have not watched you for quite a while now. This presentation was so much more professional (planned/structured). Well done. I am looking forward to the rest of the series.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Haha after 8 years I've learnt a thing or 2 on presentation, try any of my videos from last few years I moved up my production value after covid when I had the time to work on the channel. Welcome Back!

[@Sean_S1000]

Since atleast 2002 based on the house I'm in are microbore, but I guess it would depend on the developer.

[@johnd3309]

Price quotes from octopus have gone up, I had a quite end of last year which I could accept as needed to access pension fund after April the quote was £3500. I required last month June as had the access to the money £7500 guess what I’ll stick to boiler would never recover any of that cost £3500 would have taken a long time but £7.5k. Shall wait and see if any other incentives come along.

[@DumfriesDik]

Nice video thank you. Couple of questions, what temperature do you normally run you house at? We set ours to 21c and I am not sure if a heat pump would suffice. Secondly, what colour are your eyes?! Is it a trick of the camera or are they different colours??

[@NicolasRaimo]

Depends on the room... Our lounge is between 20-22c... Bedrooms between 18-20c and my office is usually 21c... Halls are 19c... When octopus do heat loss survey they show you designed temperatures for rooms

[@NicolasRaimo]

PS they doing my heat survey this FRIDAY

[@Jimages_uk]

I have micro bore pipes from when our council put central heating in, probably the 70’s and these are very small, I doubt they are 10mm on the outside. So a heat pump is not going to be an option any time soon

[@3D_Printing]

5:32 so, soon as the rules, which protect people. Noise and the freezing cold air, as heat pumps suck the heat out the air, could make it too cold to walk past

[@peterbrown6453]

Too cold to walk past! 😂 first time I’ve heard that one

[@NicolasRaimo]

Am Batmans worst enemy DR FREEZE

[@MrKlawUK]

did you find out what your actual pipework size is in the main part of the house?

[@NicolasRaimo]

Nope not got to that point in journey yet

[@robertgraves4527]

At least you managed to get them to quote. I have waited months for cosy 6 to come online only to be told that they are not doing it in my area atm and to say I'm disappointed is an understatement as I am ready to commit to going for a heat pump and many of my customers in the pub I own that I have spoken to were waiting to see what it would work like and possibly go down the heat pump avenue, but as usual us folks up North are left behind the rest of the country.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Am up north wheee you?

[@robertgraves4527]

@@NicolasRaimo I did the online form to see if I was eligible and came back " Not available yet" so I then emailed and them they replied "That in my postcode SR8 they were not yet ready to offer it but would get back in contact when they were"

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@robertgraves4527 your more north you win

[@anyuone]

Hi Nick. Great video. Have you had your install yet? How did it go? Did they put the Cosy 6 in? So many questions!

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@anyuone Ill be one of the first cosy6 installs more details on a new video to follow about the survey soon!

[@tarassu]

300 liters of buffer tank will allow skipping many high price hours. Heat pump can prepare some hot water in advance.

[@NicolasRaimo]

WOW thats alot of water!

[@jimmyc38]

🐙 quoted my £650 after BUS, 5 year old house with 10mm microbore tails from 15mm. I have ground floor with UFH and no change of any of my rads. My current boiler runs at 93% efficiency (EvoHome Opentherm). I currently run output temps at 38°C on a Heat only boiler, so I know an ASHP will work for me. 🐙 will help me hide my pipes too.

[@Trev5]

So you can put a heat pump against a neighbours back garden fence, but currently not a public accessable space..?

[@NicolasRaimo]

Got to be 1 meter away from boundary of highway it’s due to be changed

[@robertsmart7484]

@@NicolasRaimo Also current Planning Regs say that the noise from the ASHP should be less than a certain dBa level at the nearest openable window of an adjacent house, which may preclude putting it against a back garden fence. Manufacturers installation intructions will affect how far from walls it can be installed.

[@speedmatters]

My quote was £5,610. By the time I read the small print though, I'd already decided against an Octopus Heatpump install. This line was the clincher: section 4.5 of the T&C's - 'we will perform the installation with reasonable skill and care'. They will install with 'reasonable skill and care'?! I will not have any company carrying out any work if they celebrate mediocrity in their T&C's. Odd line that! Also, the time it takes to heat a lot of hot water is glacially slow and expensive. Having 4 people in our household and a random demand for hot water, it made no sense. The cost of electricity is 4 times that of gas and the instant nature of gas is still very attractive. Yes I understand COP and efficiency but this only makes sense with cheap electricity. I did want to install a 30kWh battery (without solar or EV) to charge overnight at cheap rates to use the electricity for a heatpump in the day - but Octopus won't allow this unless I have an EV. Why? Added to the fact that the purple Octopus heatpump looks like a bin from a kids playground and the noise it produces is far to loud for me to accept, it was a no from me. I'll look again in another decade when this technology matures a little.

[@judebrown4103]

Ooh I totally agree with you, what a strange line...it smacks of a wishy-washy legal get out clause to me. The COP is all very well but if it's still using loads of electricity at multiple X cost of gas it's irrelevant. Slightly concerned about your remark saying Octopus "won't let" you have a battery unless you've got an EV. Firstly, how can they stop you having a battery, you don't have to purchase one from them?! Secondly, how about this? Yes I have an EV but when they try and flog me a home charger which is what it's all about I reckon, I shall have to decline because I don't have a driveway. Unless they want to negotiate with our local council and put one in our parking bay a home charger is no good to me. Is it right for them to deprived you of their best cheap rate night tariff because you haven't got an EV? I don't think so. They've taken on too much with those companies who went bust and their customer service has really suffered in our experience, can't get any sense out of them.

[@antwnpowell]

go for air/air instead, cheaper and programmable. immersion heater for your water tank or solar thermal.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Air to air wouldn’t be this cheap

[@antwnpowell]

@@NicolasRaimowhy not? Mine cost £6k for a 4 bed 100 yr old detached 3 storey house. O radiators.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@antwnpowell octopus quote as per video is £1500…

[@antwnpowell]

@@NicolasRaimo what about the grant? It would more than cover the installation

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@antwnpowell grant doesn’t cover air to air

[@malcolmfowler8972]

Also getting rid of gas means you no longer have to pay the gas standing charge so that's another £108 saved a year

[@mrgirling1840]

Yes, good point

[@NicolasRaimo]

Excellent point but I need to replace gas hob also

[@MrFuckwit999]

@@NicolasRaimo Get an induction hob, much better than gas all round.

[@peterjones6322]

He was Not a gas ENGIEER, he is a gas fitter, or at best a technician.

[@fintrollpgr]

Don't you have air-air heat pumps in the UK? I have been running one for 14 years now in Finland. And that does perfectly fine until it gets under -10, which is less of an issue with the newer ones since technology has improved in that time. And it's not a kind of temperature you're going to encounter often in the UK anyway. Added benefit, air conditioning in summer!

[@NicolasRaimo]

Air to air doesn’t come under the grant would cost a lot more money

[@Steven-bh3uk]

I'm amazed the government can afford £7500 per each house to replace a boiler with a heat pump. I'd get in now because that is not sustainable.

[@NicolasRaimo]

It has a limited pot value

[@gregevans8939]

I think this whole grant thing is being widely abused... there will be a lot of people making vast amounts of money out of this. I know of one local company who are making almost £2,500 per day for 2 guys !! That's naughty...

[@hellopsp180]

YOOO £1,350 for a whole HEATPUMP system that is flipping amazing

[@3D_Printing]

6:30 similar to the science promises of Nuclear fission being too cheap to meter, i.e. free.

[@zweriuskriegsman]

I don’t think you will get a COP of 4 with the small pipework and radiators you have.

[@NicolasRaimo]

That’s not what others I’ve spoken to think but only time will tell

[@zweriuskriegsman]

⁠ You don’t need time to tell you. Science now already knows.

[@ram64man]

Personally I would go for the combi heat pump , see heatsble for more it’s a better system for microbore, also spec it to run without booster to -8 or -10 than the typical-3 , if your heat loss is more than 15 don’t bother also due to the heat up time on wether comp many are just cop 2-3.3 in winter, and best to design on wether comp always on for lower heat draw

[@Muppetkeeper]

So you’d basically pay for two boilers, with double the maintenance costs, double the complexity and that doesn’t get the £7500 grant in England. Great advice

[@alistairlambert3275]

Great video Nick. It seems a shame to rip out a recent boiler. I had a similar quote but I’d need to expand my battery system to optimise costs. I’m going to wait as I think storage will get a lot cheaper.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Moving from gas to heat pump is the biggest reduction in co2 you can make it’s more than any single action

[@alistairlambert3275]

@@NicolasRaimo being green is great. If my boiler was on its last legs this would be a no brainier so I’m going to wait but I have already register my interest with British Gas and OVO.

[@rabhaw2327]

@@NicolasRaimo Not much good if you die from hypothermia is it

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@rabhaw2327 so your telling me the thousands of people with working systems are just what? Lieing

[@carpcrazyboom5190]

Go with aira they might be newer but my install went amazing and heatpump works perfect

[@NicolasRaimo]

They want £6000 for install according to there website I’ll pass octopus more than 3 times less

[@carpcrazyboom5190]

@NicolasRaimo have you not had a tech survey or sales visits? Just a quote off a website? Is it like for like quotes?

[@carpcrazyboom5190]

Just seen you got a sponsorship thing going on there my bad, carry on but aira is a better way forward for anyone interested 😉

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@carpcrazyboom5190 octopus don’t sponsor me, am just not gonna spend £7000 when octopus charging £1400

[@carpcrazyboom5190]

Spliting the 200 with people if you can with the referral is kind of like it, the only problem with octopus seems one size fits all installations, which is how heatpump got bad names as not making sure heatloss is calculated properly rad sizing, they may even add in you need to up rad sizes after its started the warning sighns are there with the big price discrepancies but your the youtuber you must know best@NicolasRaimo

[@MrGreedyboyuk]

It's sad that housebuilders minimise radiators & use small bore pipes then whack in an over specified boiler to then push water around at too high a temperature. if everything was adequately specified & designed for lower flow temperatures (regardless of the heating source). It was always a lazy & quicker way to do it.

[@robertsmart7484]

With the current Building Regulations , all boiler systems have to be designed to a maximum flow temperature of 55 degrees, not 70 degrees, which means that new houses will have pipework and radiators suitable for mASHP even if a gas boiler is installed initially.