Octopus Cosy 6 COP Results ARE IN FOR October Heat Pump

[@NicolasRaimo]

Using Octopus Energy Services (Heat Pumps) then you can get £100 off when you split £200 with me Use my unique referral code: 87680

[@davebax6819]

Good update nick so 3.5 cop with hot water is outstanding stuff and I apologise for criticising your pipe run and heat pump location as you have a MASSIVE advantage with the Cosy as it’s linked in the Octopus 🐙 App, so very smart stuff indeed our current combi (going in January) Heating is set at 45 degrees flow temp, and water 48 degrees (we have no bath (soon) as no kids. The house reaches 20 degrees even with type 11 radiators so I’m much more confident hearing you experience

[@briangriffiths114]

Great that you have invested your hard-earned cash into future proofing your house. The ASHP efficiency during October and solar PV generation figure for the same month are both impressive by any standards.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Great to hear Nick - thanks for sharing all your details

[@wobby1516]

Unlike you I’ve the Diakin installed by Octopus I’ve also got individual control of each radiator via the Honeywell home Evohome system which means I can control each room temperature. If one room is calling for heat it will switch on the heatpump. To date I’ve left all alone and as I buy electricity at the 7p night rate and store in my 27kw battery system heating our 3 bed semi is incredibly. I estimate that with my solar system FIT payment and £100 saved on the gas standing charge my annual bill is working out at £25 per month. Yes I’ve spent a lot on the equipment but interest on savings was a pitance so better to invest in the house and it’s increased its value should I choose to sell. Our heat pump will bring the hot water to around 55° which is fine for us and once a week boost it to 65°c with the immersion heater on the legionella cycle. I haven’t a notion of what our COP is but frankly I’m not that bothered as our house is lovely and warm 20°c at night 22°c all day and in the evening the sitting room is 23°c we also heat our conservatory 3m x 3m throughout the day. All this even when the outside temperature was -1.5°c so to all those who say heatpumps don’t work they most certainly do. What I would say is if you opt for a heatpump spend the government saving on at least a 10 kwh battery more if you can afford it. It will increase the value of your house so it’s not money lost and make sure it a good battery, go on line and listen to the various posts before buying.

[@joewentworth7856]

True, but as non battery heat pump owner the savings are good too even without the battery outlay. So don't feel you have to have a battery.

[@EverydayLife621]

Same here, Daikin 6kw, run at 45 deg 24x7, its uses 12 Kw / day, for 44kw of heat output (COP~3.5). Switched off temerature compensation, so that we can run the house n heating, on a 20kw battery, almost all at off peak rate. Indeed For October, Total consumption 715.2kWh @ 6.83p/kWh † = £48.83 , where † = Average unit rate charged per kilowatt-hour., £48.83 also includes car at 1000miles / month.

[@Lewis_Standing]

It's not a good SCOP but running cost wise octopus giving favourable tariffs and you taking advantage of your home batteries makes it work.

[@grith1983]

Just did a quote with British gas. It would cost me £7299 including the grant and it said I would save £108 a year compared to my gas boiler based on my last year's usage. What's the point, by the time it starts to pay for itself it will be well out of date.

[@neutron6220]

Did you try get a fixed price quote with octopus? They have 20% off next week also

[@grith1983]

@neutron6220 their quote as of this morning is £4799.49. The outlay to the savings doesn't stack especially with the trade offs as well. It is no wonder really why people are still fitting gas boilers, and if we start going down the changing the world argument the biggest countries are doing nothing they didn't even attend COP.

[@neutron6220]

@grith1983 I guess it depends on individual situations. If you've got a house full of old rads and a old boiler then it's a no brainer

[@grith1983]

@neutron6220 yeah totally agree with you there to be fair. We've had our boiler fitted 4 years ago with new radiators and the cost was a little less than the octopus quote. If we were doing it now I would certainly consider it. Anyone with a boiler that's pretty new it's not worth it until the prices come down.

[@chrisweston9764]

If your heating system isn't due a renewal/upgrade then I'd suggest waiting until it is. Ours has an old non-condensing boiler, old copper cylinder and old radiators so the cost of installing a heat pump, modern cylinder and upgrading the rads, makes it not really any more expensive than installing a new boiler. I think our quote for a HP was £6500ish

[@tlangdon12]

Don't forget that the point of heat pumps is not to save money. We need them because they are sustainable in a way that gas is not.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Indeed and that’s the ethos of my channel since I started however people who move to heat pumps for sustainability ain’t the people am trying to convince to get them

[@philiphookham8135]

Nicolas, let me simplify the maths for you regarding the economics of your heat pump as a stand alone item without your batteries and solar panels etc. 183.27 kWhr of electricity using my day tariff of 23.6 p/kWhr works out at £43.25. However, 643.5 kWhr of gas at 6.32 p/kWhr (my EDF gas tariff) is £40.67, i.e. cheaper. The fundamental issue is that electricity in the UK is 3.7x more expensive than gas so the heat pump COP has to be above 3.7 just to break even. I am planning to install a heat pump to reduce my carbon footprint (which is why I've enjoyed watching your channel), but I don't think that it will save me any money in terms of operating costs. Your analysis includes savings from charging your batteries at night on a low tariff and exporting it on a day tariff which is to do with the economics of the batteries, not the heat pump.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Octopus cosy deal for heat pumps only has a rate for heat pump to run at 12p a kWh

[@PhilipHookham]

Thanks, Nicholas. I didn't know that. The Octopus tariff would obviously make a huge difference. Like you, I have a battery and solar panels, so I'm a nett exporter as far as the house is concerned. My EV is charged overnight at 7.9 p/kWhr. I'll have to investigate tariffs in more detail when I install a heat pump. Thanks for your input.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@PhilipHookham see cosy deal on evnick.com/energy

[@BenIsInSweden]

As Nick said also, Gas boilers don't convert 100% of the gas into kWh of heat - as some of it is lost out of the flue. Unless you're running your gas boiler like a heat pump, you're likely only going to get at best around 90% efficiency. So you'd need ~715kWh of gas = £45.19.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@BenIsInSweden Fact of matter is most gas boilers going to be running at way less than 90% as well

[@AlanS-uu5sy9vy8o]

Good video as always Nick, I have just got a quote from Octopus & they are arranging to do a heat loss survey in the near future . I live on my own and only have a shower , the only other hot water I use is for washing my hands/face or whilst cooking so my current combi boiler is ideal . Do Octopus offer anything similar to a combi as an alternative to a tank , I understand there is a Sunamp which works similar to a combi ?

[@markbennett6658]

Sorry Nick I’m slightly none the wiser. Firstly you said you exported 3.70 kWh and then showed you were credited £30.70 for export for the month… well that’s hell of an export rate! Otherwise a lot of complex blinding with science, adding and removing variables. I think you should either get a white board or use a spread sheet to graphically represent the comparison between total cost for heating & hot water with and without your specific add ons to demonstrate the actual cost difference between the two systems like for like. All I got was the heat pump is more efficient, you’ve got a lot more solar and battery than a typical house particularly one of your size and if you like plenty of hot baths your COP goes down and you need a very large hot water tank! Please keep it simple. I’m considering doing this but would more likely need a newly announced Cosy 10 my house being older, larger and less efficient than yours oh and liking HOT baths. I only have a standard 4kW 8 panel solar system and a 4kWh (net capacity) home battery. It would probably cost as much as new gas boiler on top of the government grant. Although I’d not necessarily want it to ‘pay back’ I’d like to see a significant cost saving as well as planet saving. Please clarify.

[@noloafingwgas]

I think he just miss spoke

[@joewolffjoseph8173]

see you have some flight sim gear, you been playing the new flight sim was a bit brocken but seems to be a lot better now.

[@NicolasRaimo]

With 2 kids under 2 not had a chance yet it’s on my to do list

[@datoon83]

October was really mild, so comparing year on year is nigh on impossible.

[@BassPunk]

The stats from the device should not be trusted, only independent data. Its a real shame you have not added Open Energy Level 3 Heat Pump Monitoring. This would allow the wider public to make an informed decision on whether this model is any good compared to the competition.

[@NicolasRaimo]

If you want to pay the £700 for the kit and have it installed feel free I won’t say no otherwise it’s of little to no value to me

[@Damadchef]

Lots of good and interesting info 👍... I'll be getting solar battery and heat pump shortly so thanks

[@NicolasRaimo]

Remember to check out evnick.com/energy for discounts and evnick.com/solar for deal on solar

[@Chris-hy6jy]

It was quite warm during October so what was your average COP over the last week whilst it was near or below zero for a lot of the time? Must have been less than 3?

[@NicolasRaimo]

I’ve released figure over on membership and Patreon but November video with all this be out in coming weeks

[@The1tjc]

I don’t understand why you are not heating your water using solar, or when there’s no sun via the battery? This must be the cheapest option and you wouldn’t need to mess around with the heat flow temp. I find it quite interesting that none of the KZbinrs who discuss installing heat pumps never address this, perhaps I’m missing something.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Using solar would mean using the tank heater that’s just going to use electric 1 to 1 rather than 200-400% efficiency

[@leesargent65]

These low tank temps are well and good, but isn't Legionella a potential issue? My heating engineer suggested at least 55degC to mitigate this risk.

[@NicolasRaimo]

The science for legionella on home systems is basicly next to no risk. Your tank is cycled so much it doesn’t get chance to grow it also only effects the very old and very young. If I went on holiday for a week I might heat tank up to 60c as it’s been stored but everyday it’s being used and 210 means don’t take more than a day and a half to use all stored water

[@eddyd8745]

I've never heard of anybody get legionella from a domestic water system that is in daily use. I have a Mixergy tank and got them to turn off the legionella cycle; I'm still here.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@ turned off on octopus cosy6 also for same reason domestic tanks don’t suffer

[@wobby1516]

Once a week boost the water temp to 65°c is all that’s needed to stay safe. Most heatpumps have this facility built in either in the heatpump or as with Diakin useing the emersion in the Diakin cylinder.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@wobby1516 it’s really not needed waste of energy for domestic stores unless you have a massively oversized tank and don’t use it

[@janetmorris6792]

Why do away with the electric shower, come the better weather and less use of the Cosy6 then the electric shower is better and cheaper, if the cosy goes offline then you have backup, run an emersion on Solar or GO night rate time

[@peterjones6322]

A heat pump for hot water will always be cheaper than electric, even with a poor COP. So in Summer that's all that a heat pump would be used for, and it could heat the water at the cheap night rate.

[@stevoone342]

Its apx works out over £50 month on your usage on a standard uk rate. Not difficult to work out. My average gas bill is £70 month witch to just to switch to a heat pump would take a massive pay off period by thr time I’ve recouped the investment it probably be time to replace. I was going to have solar but been messed about so much i just not, also i can only have a small array of 8 panels due to space and split 50/50 s/w. The estimated power just about covers my current usage with a battery, so obviously if i add a heat pump into the mix would drastically up my power usage. Also living in a rural area i like to have a mix of gas and log. Due are area struggles with power drops wear if for example you have a ev your home charging can drop right down, let alone on fast charging comes impossible. The grid dose this to stop it all crashing. So personally id rather no fully really on the grid for everything, especially in time like this wear we are going into a recession possibly bigger than the last. I don’t trust the government especially the current the don’t have are best interest at hart. I personally think putting everything on electricity isn’t smart and exposing especially if the hike the price up as they have let alone the government will eventually tax you more for it especially if they lose over incomes.

[@fje1948]

I totally disagree with your analysis, sorry. I have 6.5 kWp solar, 20 kWh battery storage, EV and heat pump and as an emergency backup our Rayburn can heat the house and provide DHW in a power outage. All Electricity makes total sense.

[@stevoone342]

@ as you said in youre own words you need a decent system eg solar. But by the sounds you have apx £20k or so of battery’s alone . Hay enjoy. But not ever one can justify spending 10s of thousands. I was just explaining my situation and issues with it… you’re free to disagree As said if you can afford a decent system and meets your needs enjoy doesn’t mean others can’t though !

[@PedalPowerPanther]

To all the people out there banging on about when the break even date will be. Does anyone think of the break even time when they're buying a new car, a fridge freezer, a toaster etc. No, of course they don't.

[@insanityideas]

I did for an Electric car (compared to petrol & hybrid)... Turns out if you drive a lot of miles the payback is quite quick. But if you have it on a 6k miles lease deal it's bad value. Same can be said for heat pumps, they make more sense if you already have high heating costs... Nick saving £10 over his gas bill is not going to pay back on the investment, but making videos about it might.

[@1979com]

they just going to put the prices up for the masses. so u got a Sola and battery. im ok jack