I was Wrong About Horus vs Sanguinius

With the release of the End and Death Vol 2, a popular fan theory was proven wrong...
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[@zwan6740]

"Horus, you defeated me... you truly are... the Warhammer... 40,000..." Gave me absolute chills when I read it.

[@irishwristwatch2487]

Horus: Its over I have 30,000 warhammers Emperor: No Horus, I have 40,000 warhammers

[@JD-td6oh]

Fucking hilarious

[@1er264ynkc]

“It’s too late horus, not even the ruinous powers. I have officially collected my forty thousandth Warhammer.”

[@dollarsignmexican]

​@@1er264ynkcYou underestimate my credit cards

[@zaer-ezart]

I had to stop when I read that. Tears filled my eyes, couldn't see anything

[@boycottwarhammer6016]

Malcador also implies that the star child is still actually on the table which is fucking sick to see. The interesting thing though is with how sanguinius dies, it doesnt make sense how the black rage happens. My guess is its actually the emperor that will create some kind of psychic feedback into the blood angels when he sees him all stringed up dead that will cause it, making the black rage the emperors rage and not sanguinius. All this is of course my opinion.

[@gustavosanches3454]

Well, considering the geneseed also comes from the emperor, and that the emperor needs to go on some sort of ultra mega power mode, that could very well explain it. Maybe Sanguinius' soul came to the emperor to power him up and cause such reaction

[@boartank]

Damn good opinion

[@jaimesmiller414]

It could be similar to how the Emperor empowers/avatars into Guilliman, him transferring his rage into the Blood Angels

[@Luminousreign]

Wait? What new info came out about the death? I've always thought it was like the red thirst and that Sanguinuis losing his shit caused a psychic reverberation in his legion that gave them the same psychic freakout.

[@ericharrison7518]

​@@LuminousreignIt's at the end of volume two. Horus toys with Sanguinus then just massacres him. There is no psychic backlash from Sanguinus. Just death.

[@user-dx1lx6vf4n]

As a son of Sanguinius myself, I would’ve been fine with either of these endings. No matter what happened, no matter how brutal and cold a death given to him Sanguinius still fought as a hero and died a martyr to be remembered and cherished.

[@Alex_Anti]

A true selfless battle brother. ❤

[@JJumper8888]

He died the way all of us, all of his sons want to die and serve one final time.

[@ScreamingTc]

Originally Sangy was so dead that the Big E could never hope to bring him back. Now, with his death being purely physical, his soul remains intact and GW can think of up a way of stuffing it back into his old body. At least that's my cynical reading of it.

[@RaixsOreh]

it's basically all but confirmed that the Primarchs are basically Non-Pantheon Warp Gods (so independent from the Chaos Gods or any other Pantheon) that are held into Physical bodies crafted by the emperor. Books concerning the emperor and primarchs have said here and there that primarchs can be brought back. I think it was in Master of Mankind where he basically says that Ferrus Manus can be rebuilt, brought back. and unless the Primarch's soul/Warp God is permanently killed, they can be brought back. and the only primarch we know who has been killed permanently is Horus, by the Emperor.

[@RorikH]

I think his soul's split though. There's the bright side, the Sanguinor, and the dark side, which is either called Mephiston, is fused with the blood angel Mephiston, or both. But yeah, that's an interesting retcon either way.

[@deusvult6164]

@@RaixsOrehso he could‘ve rebuild Angron as easy as this? Makes him even more of a dick lol

[@Keemperor40K]

@@RorikH the most powerful part of Sanguinius soul still resides in the warp. This is the piece that spoke to Dante at the end of the siege of Baal and it was a pure soul, not a broken part. The Sanguinor could potentially be the part that Sanguinius soul can cast into the material realm, powerful enough to fight and convey some things, but not enough to speak to his sons directly (kinda contradictory I know, but knowledge is more powerful than a single individual, so there are limits to how much Sanguinius through the sanguinor can offer his sons)

[@Keemperor40K]

@@deusvult6164 there must be major downsides to doing that, and probably a death event could leave indelible scars that a new body cannot heal, we don't know. It may also be that the damage the nails did to Angrons psyche and his soul is so extensive a new body wouldn't heal the issue.

[@matejjurcevic7122]

A compilation of each time the chaos gods directly spoke would be pretty interesting I think

[@Anthonythomas_19]

There's a short story in AOS where a sorceror directly speaks to tzeench who disguises himself as a door. I think there's also.a warhammer (40k) horror story where nurgle transforms from a pig and speaks to a random guy

[@adamhardy2172]

King of Pigs A really good story if you liked Amnesia 2

[@hugotheimpecileone]

nyees pls

[@KingofAwesomness14]

i second this, this sounds interesting

[@Anthonythomas_19]

@adamhardy2172 that's the one, am.i right in thinking its actually nurgle and not just one of his demons? I know that in the other story I mentioned it is actually tzeench but I can't remember if the demon in the king of pigs is actually nurgle communing with a mortal. As far as I'm aware khorne speaks very rarely to anyone and slaanesh has popped up in a few stories but I can't remember which they are

[@thecarlob_007]

Imagine the emperor reaction when he enters Horus’ chamber and sees Sanguinius, his beautiful angel, strung up with half of his face falling off and his body broken like a ragdoll.

[@chaoshater]

E just ejected all his compassion. He's not going to give a single fuck about Sang, and that's way more sad to be honest.

[@joshwenn989]

@@chaoshater I’d say needless retcons right up to the 11th hour to try and explain the mess the series has devolved into are way more sad but that’s just me

[@billhsu6349]

By then the Emperor is already emotionless, he simply said "put him down" and go on.

[@FateOfNines]

We knew our Hawk boy had to die. We didn't want him to, but we knew that he had to. Even he knew. But the fact that he literally had Horus on his knees with his guts hanging out, only being denied the killing blow by Horus activating his Chaos Hacks just goes to show how powerful Sanguinius was among the Primarchs. He just spent weeks fighting non-stop, killing Angron, being wounded without taking time to rest/heal, taking out Ka'Bandha, soloing enemy Titans, being mentally assaulted, and he shows up to a rested and fresh Horus and claps his cheeks until Horus gets mad and goes "Alright, Go Go Gadget Warp Powers." So that being said, Sanguinius was absolutely a menace through the end of his life.

[@pedropierre9594]

Yeah that was pretty sussy baka from Horus, activating plot armor mode

[@certifiedsexhaver8400]

Yeah the fact that he slapped Horus with his angel cock so hard after fighting for days, killing the greatest bloodthirster kabandha, fondling demon prince angron, and massacring hundreds of Horus’ sons is just fucking badass. Once Horus activated 8th dimension rinnegan bullshit to pull sanguinius out of the air I wasn’t even mad. Bald boy admitted defeat when he whipped out the asspull.

[@riccuevas9195]

I mean, it is said that horus was holding back, also what did you want, horus fighting pure melee while hawk boy was flying and predicting the future? Dont get me wrong, sanguinius fucking rules but you are still talking about the guay that put Terra on a timeloop and big e in a weelchair

[@riccuevas9195]

Well, we still dont know how the emperor vs horus is going to be like so GW still has time to shit on that, but I believe that they did it well with this duel, both sanginius and horus shined through it

[@Spr1ggan87]

I mean Leman Russ beat Horus as well, and Horus sent the Lion to the other end of the galaxy cos he was scared of him, seems like Horus was never as strong as he was cracked up to be.

[@joeyk3134]

I thought a big part of Horus killing Sanguinius was the psychic damage he did, not just straight up beating him to death

[@ScreamingTc]

It was, but GW want the chance to bring Sanguinius back. Go figure.

[@RedXlV]

@@ScreamingTc GW knows that carefully-timed Primarch revivals = $$$£££€€€

[@christiandauz3742]

Or death threats which kicked Matt Ward out of 40k for years

[@ironduke5058]

​@@ScreamingTcThe psychic attacks wouldn't stop him from coming back though?? It'd just make the Black Rage make more sense

[@koolunit]

I suspect the psychic shock will be explored more in the final volume. The duel between Horus and Sanguinius is a must read.

[@kevinelrick6605]

With the way this series is going I’m really interested to see Guilliman’s reaction when he arrives as the Siege of Terra makes it very clear that Guilliman was only hours away when the final strike on Horus’s flagship was launched. Could be interesting to see Guilliman process the fact that if he had only showed up hours before he could have saved one of his favorite brothers from a grisly death.

[@TheSickjits]

Isn’t this when he became the avenging son and went ape shit in the scouring?

[@kevinelrick6605]

@@TheSickjits yeah and I think it would be interesting to actually see his transformation into the Avenging Son due to his failure of both Sanguinius and the Emperor in arriving too late to save them.

[@TheSickjits]

@@kevinelrick6605 Big bobby is one of my favs, I agree. Seeing Bobby uncharacteristically lose his shit with Khorne rubbing his hands together in the background is something we need.

[@Uploaded1995]

Ah yes, the transformation from Rowboat Girlyman to Rubmeoff Gorillaman.

[@trimeerious4349]

Getting a video about how each of the pre heresy primarchs and how they would rule their own imperium in Guillimans position would be pretty cool ngl

[@leighz1962]

Thanks for stopping the reaction question but sticking to the same narrow alley of what if suckness

[@RorikH]

The fight lives on!

[@crasher182]

Why stop at loyalist primarchs? I wonder how the Imperium would fare under every single primarch. I'm preety sure all of them would want galactic domination. I am curios what flavor that galaxtic domination would be and what paths are avalible to them. Would they rule alone? Wich of their brothers would be with them? What personal goal would they pursue?

[@trimeerious4349]

@@crasher182 well it is about all the primarchs but specifically before the heresy so all of them are "loyal" to the emperor but still have their quirks

[@ClubQRoundDeux]

This question has been answered.

[@Kierano777]

It was pretty damn perfect imo. Sanguinius shows he is the greatest of the Primarchs, he killed anything thrown at him that wasn't literal God-Tier. Sons of Horus marines were shielding their eyes and combusting before he even touched them. He trashed regular Horus even though (it wasn't mentioned in the video) Horus was nearly warhound size but ws still moving faster than any of the Primarchs, Sang was still better. Horus had to resort to using his warp powers to win. Sanguinius and the Sigilitte the Imperiums Greatest Heroes.

[@nahojackable]

This a thousand times this ....sanguinious is the best because not only did he do that but he also did it knowing he was going to die there knowing that horus would use his cheat codes but he did it anyway because he knew he had to not because his death would have incredible meaning (even though it would) but simply because it was the right thing to do which is so often not the thing in ones best interest.

[@Nubloot]

Sorry what.. Horus was warhound sized? That’s kinda dumb.

[@Kierano777]

@@Nubloot His mace was described as the size of a young oak. Maybe warhound is exageration but he was at least twice the height of Sanguinius.

[@Yankyal1]

he did mention sangy trashing regular horus in the video bud

[@michaelkean5969]

i'd argue that the only Primarch greater than Sanguinius would be the Lion as Flight is literally the ONLY thing Sanguinius has over him.

[@plasma3064]

Horus: You fight like a young Primarch, Sanguinius, with nothing held back. Admirable, but mistaken.

[@Anthonythomas_19]

The better quote would have been "I was wondering what would break first, your spirit, or your body"

[@godKiller.369]

And now for my patented back breaker... *CRACK*

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

I think fresh would be better

[@nuyabuisness7526]

If I had a nickel for every time a primarch broke another primarch's back over their knee I would have 2 nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.

[@godKiller.369]

Did Sangy do it to Khabanda too? Iirc 40k has a few more Bane finishers in the lore.. you'd think Knightfall must be on cogitator file or something.

[@Master_Of_Machines]

Our favorite angel boy, although beaten without honor, is still the best of them all!

[@themasterninja110]

Nit at all

[@toe6419]

Womp womp

[@PotatoBread-nz5gv]

@@themasterninja110your opinion has been noted. But it will be discarded.

[@themasterninja110]

@@PotatoBread-nz5gv no opinions. Just fact her. He got smashed. He sucks and is not nearly as great as everyone says he is

[@sammykarel8498]

You are correct. Ignore the heretics

[@jaegerbomb269]

I got done with Part 2. I'm both okay and heartbroken with how it turned out. January can't come soon enough.

[@robreeves9825]

What's happening in January if you don't mind me asking?

[@asantiago2039]

​@@robreeves9825volume 3 comes out at the end of January

[@gameoveror7970]

@@robreeves9825the final Horus heresy book

[@fabianhernandez2616]

@@robreeves9825the last part bro Horus vs the emperor

[@Keram-io8hv]

Is it official? Nice

[@internetbotv45]

Sanguinius rolled too many ones, and horus'es armor save was too great due too his gifts from chaos.

[@_the_eversor_lad_]

🤣🤣🤣

[@HoneyBadger1779]

We all have our headcanon when (not if) GW browns the sheets with stupidity. This theory about the Angel has a solid grim dark essence to it. The Emperor knew that Horus had ego issues and it never made sense that he was holding back out of compassion after all the years of the heresy. I actually do like that he wanted the loyalists and his father to join him, rather than just hating them, for reasons.

[@amanofnoreputation2164]

It kind of has passive-aggressive quality to it: Horus has already rejected much of the Imperium as "weak" by this point, so it betrays a childish lack of self awareness for him to still pine for them to join him; it suggests that he's actually not very secure in his own convictions and does sense any pattern in the most unstable primarchs being the ones to stand at his side. I can't say I have much respect for Horus' motivations if I'm honest even accounting for his themes, ideology, and the tone of the setting.

[@ericharrison7518]

​@@amanofnoreputation2164They were meant to be tributes to the Pantheon for his ascension. Sanguinus as an avatar for Nurgle, Dorn as an avatar for Khorne, the Emperor as an avatar for Slaanesh, and Valdor as an avatar for Tzeentch. They would be his new mournival as he would be the ascendant chaos God, controlling the others...because he mixed up the prophecy, thinking he was the Dark King when, in fact, the Emperor is actually the Dark King.

[@billyherrington5112]

​@@ericharrison7518he still could be one, there are free possible candidats in prophecy

[@BrotherVoidBomber]

I like that the book hints that Big E is a chaos god but fighting his ascension. Its makes alot of things in lore work as his splintered mind could be that the corpse on the throne is not the last of his humanity but rather the last hold out before he ascends whether or not he likes it. This new lore piece gives GW the ability to say "Yes the emperor's corpse is dead and that would normally cripple the imperium but.... hes a chaos god now and everything is ok. Barely. Again."

[@JGrimm52]

He's the God of Order

[@DINOROAR2912]

Don't forget that Sanguinius couldn't get out any last words, because his lungs were full of blood. Which I absolutely love because it's so much darker than some cool last words.

[@nuyabuisness7526]

I think it actually fits thematically. Sanguinius is the Big E's Angel. The pinnacle of beauty and controlled power. Seeing one of his greatest works beaten and then *desecrated* will make the big E go over the edge, and decide that Horus needs to be put down.

[@Ninjasmurf96]

It says that the compassion the emperor yeeted off into the warp would over time gain a similar power level to the dark king if he couldn't claim it back so the emperor being heavily injured is probably because he went into the fight weaker than the fully chaos empowered Horus and the whole becoming a god thing is because he couldn't claim the part of his soul back and had to use it as a back up plan to protect humanity

[@PanicAttack445]

Is it just me or did anyone else want Sanguinious vs Horus to devolve into a massive fistfight?

[@grenadiergarde5983]

Bro, fucking imagine the absolute hammer fists been thrown

[@justasplanned8023]

No. It went down exactly how I wanted. Sanguinius stood no chance at all.

[@grenadiergarde5983]

@justasplanned8023 you sir, are boring, Primarch Bare Knuckle Fist Fighting wouldve been sick as fuck

[@vanessalaplaige8806]

When the death and the end trilogy gets a french translation you’re guaranteed that I’ll buy it. I’ll shed a tear for sanguinius (maybe)

[@Iggyboyblue]

As much as I like plot twists, nothing beats a classic. Something cool about heading to your death despite knowing about it in advance if it means a chance in victory.

[@N0TYALC]

I think Sanguinius’s arc would’ve been tarnished if he killed Horus. He was a noble man who was willing to die for what he believed in, regardless of how hopeless it was.

[@josephmay2929]

Thanks for all the great videos man.

[@Anthonythomas_19]

I know this is just a nice gesture, but my head cannon is that now you know this "revelation" of old lore you're quitting watching the channel

[@shaythemightymighty5916]

This is mid

[@chesneytube1]

My personal insane-plot-twist-fan-theory is that the Emperor disguised himself as Sanguinnea's broken corpse to fake his own death and disappeared so he could work on a secret project to defeat chaos and the one on the golden throne has been Sanguinneas all along, with the emperor giving him part of his psychic powers so that he could tolerate it. Sanguinneas would have died if not for the golden throne life support system. It probably doesn't work at all and is full of all sorts of holes but I like it.

[@whitlermountain7198]

lmao thats so wild

[@PotatoBread-nz5gv]

That’s the craziest theory I’ve ever heard

[@MichaelLewis-fx8eq]

As stated in lore before, it is the corpse keeping the Throne alive, not the Throne keeping the corpse alive.

[@chesneytube1]

@@MichaelLewis-fx8eq ah I see… thanks. Well if I amend my theory accordingly it could still work.

[@deathstroke2697]

Thats a good theory. The one sitting on the Golden Throne is Sanguinius.

[@ColCoal]

I was not thinking that theory. I was thinking you were referring to that Sanguinius managed to get a spear strike in and cause a gap in Horus’ armor that allowed the emperor to beat him.

[@pedropierre9594]

My real interest has always been the interaction between Horus and the Big E

[@edpistemic]

I liked this theory too and your earlier video on it was solid. The theory fit well with the older material, but the new book takes it all in a rather different direction so that's all fine. It's a tragic end for Hawk Boy, but no less noble because he foresaw it and did his duty anyway.

[@sasanahadian2859]

Superb video as always @majorkill. Could you make a video dedicated to the Navigators, the major houses, their politics, relation to the overall Imperium and factions, etc

[@irishwristwatch2487]

Oh this is a solid suggestion, theyre so interesting

[@Voitan]

In my head, Horus still killed Sanginius, but his now uncontrolled, psychic corpse rose back up with the Black Rage now animating it, and it kills Horus in its rage. The Emperor would then arrive at the scene, and it would have been the most tragic fight of the Emperor's life to put down what is perhaps one of his most beloved sons, desperately hoping for a chance of salvaging his berserking son.

[@gabrielplattes6253]

I got to 15 pages from the end of the second volume, when it occurred to me that there wasn't enough space left to finish the entire work. That was when I realised that there was another volume to come! Aaarghhh! 😄

[@stingerjohnny9951]

I SOOOOO want the revelation to be that the Imperium is just another cleaner chaos cult. That would be incredibly Grimdark and fit into the cosmic horror of 40k. The existential nightmare of thinking you were warring against primordial gods, but in reality you were always just another one of their toys.

[@_NIKOS9_NIKOS]

Same here. However I feel like alot of people are gonna throw a temper tantrum that would make Perturabo blush, if that ends up being the case. Which makes want this to happen even more!

[@jjkay2476]

Ok tzeentch

[@stingerjohnny9951]

@@_NIKOS9_NIKOS The fanbase would literally descend into Chaos 🤣

[@stingerjohnny9951]

@@jjkay2476 😈

[@arionofotherworld]

The Imperial cult is, and always has been for the first god of Order within the warp, Order being the anathema of Chaos.

[@guinnessguinness8027]

The problem with that theory is that Sanguinis never had the Black Rage. That is a literary retcon in the heresy books. The origins of the rage lie in the recovery of Sanguinius' gene seed.

[@MrFallenone]

No. He himself admits to giving his sons their gene flaws. He is just strong enough to supress them. There even was a moment when he was on the brink of the Black rage in one of the novels .... truly sad to never see him sucumb.

[@guinnessguinness8027]

@@MrFallenone WD 168 details the exact specifics on the origins of the Black Rage. It was written by Rick Priestley himself. Here is the relevant bit: "...was to reculture gene-seed from the body of Sanguinius, the Primarch whose genetic structure has been used to create the Blood Angels." The Black Rage is further specifically described as a Blood Angel feeling as though they ARE Sanguinius in the final moments of his life battling Horus.

[@thewerdna]

Sadly Horus never got to hear Sangy's final words where he admitted defeat and told him he was truly the Warhammer 40,000

[@N0TYALC]

4th time I’ve read that joke in this comment section. You guys should consider developing a personality of your own.

[@resorbis92]

There was a post on the 40k lore subreddit from someone who hadn't read it yet. They asked what kind of epic music people would be imagining or listening to during the battle, and the top post was "I Wanna be Your Dog."

[@smokinyou4312]

“It’s summer now” I hear while knee-deep in snow, waiting for my bus to arrive to University in America.

[@MrAqminor]

The thing i never understood about the theory was, isn't the black rage where they relive Sanguinius fight against horus? If so, how could Sanguinius live through his death to horus if he wasn't dead yet?

[@theslayer1197]

He and his legion had the rage forever it just got amplified or boosted by his death

[@7aro7Dragoon]

Warp fuckery

[@oysterscrolls]

Edging to the Codex Astartes rn

[@darkgodsenjoyer]

Same

[@oysterscrolls]

@@darkgodsenjoyer we edge for macragge

[@defiante1]

Sanguinius dying is what makes him better than Horus. Horus being afraid to die and choosing to embrace Chaos to live at the start of the heresy books is what caused it all. For all his big bad talk, he was a coward when it came to it.

[@zuesmckinley6478]

Aloha Brother! i was recently going thru your old videos.. its funny to see the stark difference in how you speak. keep up the good work! For the Emperor !!

[@OneReallyGrumpyJill]

There is one major reason for why I don't like how it played out: at this point, Horus was a walking corpse puppet more than a man. But when GW needs him to be something more, something cooler, he suddenly is - oh well, I guess

[@BrokenShale]

I like your theory better.

[@dreamhollow]

I'm seconding what I've heard other commenters say on here, it would be really cool to get a compilation of times when the Chaos gods interacted directly with characters.

[@sirpurple4464]

Thank you for filling me in on the end i was very curious to know what happened.

[@anthonycarsius9494]

I had no idea Sanguinius could actually make himself voluntarily succumb to the Black Rage. Its a sick theory i'll give you that.

[@lewishorsman2219]

If the Sanguinius theory was to work, it would have to go down like this: While Horus is clearly gaining the upper hand with the pantheon of Chaos granting him immense power, Sanguinius in his rage is succumbing to the Red Angel. The Red Angel then takes complete control of Sanguinius, the Golden Angel pretty much unconscious at that point, giving Horus what for. Not killing Horus but wounding him to the point he can’t fight. The Emperor comes in seeing the mess and puts Horus down for all he has done and then tries to reason with Sanguinius. Of course the Red Angel just sees another chaos god and goes for the kill. The Emperor uses little of his power to throw back Sanguinius but he gets a nice stab into the wound already affected by Drachnyen. The Emperor loses his shit and smites the Red Angel and casts him out of his body and into the warp alongside the Golden Angel. Sanguinius is dead on the floor. The Emperor brought down by exhausting his body and Dorn arrives. It’s not hard to write that more compellingly

[@legio-IV-Cataphract]

A video of the top ten community wholesome moments would be great

[@raccoon4363]

Damn I really liked that theory that the emperor had to kill his favorite son and sanguiny boy him falling and becoming a monster is sad and really fits the theme but all well

[@AdrianMartinez-ho6db]

High key breaks my heart how Sanguinious died but he’s still a Top G, the twist does add to the grim dark nature tho which is honestly cool.

[@stardewhillbully]

Well, at least you could say we were all wrong. Since we started believing in the theories 😂

[@billyherrington5112]

Only fanboys

[@_the_eversor_lad_]

Only the simps did

[@Historyfrek4ever]

Sanguinius did something that no primarch has or probably will do. He went out like a guardsman. Fighting something he had no chance of beating or even denting, scared shitless but still fighting like a beast! Legend.

[@mycologyman2369]

Keep working that back majorkill 🤟

[@eoingaskin]

Aah well, can't get them all, still like the theory as it is.

[@amanofnoreputation2164]

While this would be very interesting in it's own way, it was a long shot. Even if it fixed some logical inconsistencies and ambiguities, it would detract from the core structure and themes, so I think GW made the right call, if there was ever a question. Though I don't wish to demean any who was invested in the idea as it was still really cool.

[@TheCorrodedMan]

To think we went from two brothers talking in friendship over the ruins of defeated aliens…to this. I can’t even imagine that level of betrayal without being physically sick. They were brothers, friends, hell they would have been inseparable had the Crusade not called them elsewhere. But now we come to this…

[@Grumbledookvid]

Pee pee poo poo

[@TheCorrodedMan]

@@Grumbledookvid (prolonged blowing of a razz berry)

[@ragnarokivae6136]

Would love to see you cover some stuff from the gaunts ghost / Sabbat crusade series. Stuff like the blood pact or sons of sell would be amazing

[@kelpie1533]

Thank f**k. As someone who's loved this story since reading Bill King's original version in RoC: The Lost and the Damned way back in the early 90s the last thing I wanted was something that sUbVeRtEd My ExPeCtAtIoNs. Dan Abnett is doing a terrific job of building on the existing lore instead of using lazy twists and retcons.

[@sabakujov6832]

Blud thought GW was actually going to write something good regarding the HH💀

[@starhammer5247]

Sanguinis killing Horus being good would be fucking stupid. There's a reason a lot of people hate that theory. The only reason people love it is because it would be an extra layer of extremely unnecessary Grimdark that adds nothing of substance.

[@SamGlaze]

@@starhammer5247I mean, it adds just as much substance as anything… it’s all a made-up story lol

[@starhammer5247]

@@SamGlaze And with that statement you added absolutely nothing of value to the conversation.

[@Goblinhandler]

The Horus heresy is regarded as the greatest series in Warhammer by many lol

[@ChillAssTurtle]

Not all tears should be born of sorrow & lamentation. The light that shone in the darkness all those long millenium ago still shines on, it shines on in you brothers, and in the souls of each and every man & woman who struggle in a thousand different ways both great and small to make this dark galaxy a brighter more prosperous place for mankind.

[@eojamgil]

I think weshammer said it best "it's a plot twist for plot twist sake"

[@NornQueenKya]

Well we all can't be perfect like me (or Sanguinius). I forgive you

[@darksider2903]

Thank god that happened, I'm so glad. I was tired of the way people and stories made sanguinius OP than the rest of the primarchs. Finally all that weird fan made stuffs that sangy defeated horus has ended. Horus was literally like a god with 4 primordial chaos gods fuelling him power, he was that powerful as he supposed to be to fight against the emperor. Now all primarchs are balanced. No one will look down on Lion, Corax and others 😅

[@sethkrueger5472]

I hate how many people buff up hawk boy when margen ra or the beast could tear him apart in like 5 seconds

[@rocco24554]

They still aren’t balanced. Sanguinius is still far and away better

[@rocco24554]

@@sethkrueger5472that’s just disrespectful to sanguinius

[@starhammer5247]

​@@rocco24554If Sanguinius and the Blood Angels were to fight the Lion and Dark Angels, the Blood Angels would just outright lose, same goes for Sanguinius. They'd definitely take a lot of Dark Angels, but they would definitely lose. There's a lot more to fighting than raw power. Strategy and circumstances also play a huge role. Should also be noted that Sanguinius wasn't sure he could take Konrad in a fight.

[@rocco24554]

@@starhammer5247 cause Konrad could see into the future. And if the lion and sangy were to fight sanguinius would win. The only reason the dark angels might win is because they have access to a whole lot more technology than the blood angels. If the blood angels were to fall they would tear the dark angels to pieces

[@scottthompson7332]

Emperor's rage after seeing his hawk boy dead causes psychic backlash causing the black rage.

[@disasterdisaster581]

Speaking of Sanguinius, am I mad? Or do I remember correctly that there used to be a Sanguinius Major Mini?? I'd love to buy one for a Christmas gift, maybe even get myself one. But it's disappeared from your site.

[@AlunDowdeswell]

Not a fan of the theory myself, it kind of ruins the story arc of Horus, and people froth over sanguineous already, the idea that he could beat Horus AND the emp really undermines the power of those two..

[@lordj3793]

Yup my thoughts exactly. Horus even without chaos powers is an S tier Primarch. He wouldn’t go down easy to anyone. There was no way Sanguinius was beating Horus just with black rage.😊

[@DumbbelDeezNutzInYourMouth]

Doesn't really ruin anything.

[@Kaiserboo1871]

Because of how popular Primarchs are, I think we’re gonna see a return of most if not all the Primarchs. Guilliman's and the Lion's return made GW a lot of money. It told them that the people love the Primarchs and want to see more of them.

[@involuntarilychad4048]

I really liked this theory. It would have been a great controversial twist. The Emperor's and Imperium's long-held dirty little secret.

[@thearkitect4254]

I think it’d be cool if we got another VS video. Maybe V1 (ultrakill) vs an astartes or something

[@goreobsessed2308]

I would have loved that twist

[@leoxgamer1342]

I’m gonna miss my primarch 🥺 yeah he’s been dead for 10k years but I saw him die a second time but I’m gonna put my tin foil hat I BELEVE sanguinius will come back on the setting bringingback imperium Secondus but it means the sanguinor and mephiston would either have to die or have a massive debuff because both of them were alive and have massive power before they had the 2 half’s of sanguinius’s soul

[@JJumper8888]

Or maybe they have to merge for our father to come back. That would be possible. And as much as I hate it. I reckon we will be one of the two loyal legions that don't get a second reunion with our dad's. The others will be the Iron hands since their genefather is as dead as ours:(

[@thorshammer7883]

I hope for the Dark King the 4 Chaos gods are intending to be born will result in theur plans not being fulfilled in the way they wanted it to but still a 5th Chaos god being born but in a way where it is a anti Chaos god thanks to the multiple factors of the Emperor, Horus, Sanguinius, and Ollanius Pius's intervention leading to a wild card ending both leading to the Emperor being capable of becoming as powerful as he now is since he was put on the throne and technically there being a 5th Chaos god still but one who isn't as powerful and is completely and unmovingly against the other 4 Chaos gods no matter what. That would be a good origin retcon for how Malice would come to be and why the 4 Chaos gods have now changed their plans with maintaining the Great Game and maintaining their dominions within the Warp while dealing with both the God Emperor and Malice at the same time. It would also give the Emperor's ascension a bit more uniqueness then only just people establishing faith in him. Another factor being with Ollanius's intervention the Emperor was able to absorb the Dark King's potential empowering his soul and giving it a capacity that couldn't have been reached before and giving him capability to eventually challenge the Four Chaos gods at the simultaneously with the millenias to follow. While also explaining why Malice has been mainly a loner and wild card whose's domain in the Warp isn't really large and he harasses the other 4 Chaos gods refusing to ever make compromises with them. Moving across the Warp at his own pace like Gork and Mork do though not as powerful as they are and quite spiteful to the other Chaos gods who have completely changed their plans and don't want another Anti Chaos god like Malice and other adversaries in the Warp to rise.

[@TheBasedNinja]

"It's summer now" **looks at it being 25f (-4c) outside**

[@LazzarrusLong]

01:06 Brutal and funny opening! 😃🫡

[@no_one01-5]

They fucked up the opportunity because it was stated by the fans. I actually would have preferred Sanguinius going mental theory.

[@_NutcasE_]

Stupid theory to begin with. Horus hasnt been a legitimate threat throughout the heresy that was named after him. he needed this W to remain as the primary power threat that would cripple the emperor. All you would do by doing the "grimderp sanguinius turns" theory is ruin the legacy of Blood Angels and turn Horus into complete failure.

[@luca-ou8pv]

I'm glad this theory turned out to be false, it's not a bad theory per se, but it doesn't really add nothing to the story besides making sanguinius even stronger than before, it's just a plot twist that is just there for the sake of being there

[@jth4242]

It makes Sanguinius also more flawed and tragic. The story becomes more Homerian that way.

[@sebastianhovenas272]

I'd say it adds a hell of a lot more to the story than the previous version

[@luca-ou8pv]

@@jth4242 not really honestly, it's already tragic and good the way it is, it doesn’t really make it any more sadder it's just a plot twist that's it

[@paimonisfood4986]

@@jth4242 Yeah but being killed this brutally and without honor is what symbolizes 40k. No matter how honorable you fight and how much you give your all, this universe will somehow find a way to make you look pathetic. There's light for sure but it's dying.

[@luca-ou8pv]

@@sebastianhovenas272 it doesn't, it all remains just the same with no difference besides that instead of dying against the emperor horus gets killed by sangunius, the entire story remains unchanged

[@SafetyBriefer]

Majorkill’s bulking phase is working

[@PeterJDeer]

"Bruh...have you MET the Emperor?" One hundred percent on this, compassion for any one individual ever stopping him from violence has never been his deal... right Angron?

[@edim108]

GW missed such an amazing opportunity with this, and if I had to bet money on why, I'd say they did it to leave an opening to bring back Sanguinius.

[@draconem889]

I'm new to Warhammer and ever since you made the Video on which primarch would come back after the lion I've been having a little theory of my own Here me out guys I think vulkan would make the most sense to Come back after the lion, the artifacts of Vulkan are almost all found but my biggest point is the Tyranids All the primarchs are going to come back with some cool new ability but I don't think that any of them would have an ability to deal with the Tyranids Except Vulcan GW could just give him some kind of primordial flame power that burns through ANYTHING , the Tyranids would have no way to adapt to that and it would actually give us a reasonable way to see the defeat of the Tyranids without using plot armour shanaigans let's all face it the Tyranids winning at this point

[@RorikH]

Yeah, just put a Talisman of the seven hammers on every world in the Imperium and let them try and take the Biomass then. It would be interesting to see whether he had sort of forgotten who he was and was living a simple life, or whether he had been smithing and developing new projects for thousands of years, though I suppose him showing up and saying, "hey guys, I spent the last 9,000 years reinventing every weapon we lost after the Dark Age and the STCs to build them" would also kind of be a bit of a deus ex machina. Not the impossible kind, but a bit out of nowhere. Without him, I think the Hive Mind is the greatest strength of the 'Nids, but also their greatest weakness. I think any plan against them has to be a plan against it. My ideas are 1) Work with the Necrons to make some modified version of those pillars (blackstone?) that cut off people's connections to their souls, this time that cuts off the 'Nids connection to the hivemind 2) If it exists somewhere in the warp, find it, and kill it. This might take a Primarch to do, and they might need the Emperor's sword for it. For gameplay purposes, you could do something like Starcraft's Brood War where the synapse creatures are still in control of their own forces, so large groups of 'Nids could still exist and be major threats,

[@doragonzx]

honestly Vulkan should not come back yet. Rogal Dorn should since his presence will allow the Imperium to fortify their positions and stop the advance of the tyrannies or at least slow them down.

[@Santisima_Trinidad]

You know what coukd be fun? If Vulkan comes back as part Ork, due to falling into that vat of Waaagh energy, and then going out fighting the tyranids, becoming the size of a Titan in the process due to Ork stuff, and beating tyranid bio titans single handily. When nids attempt to adapt to beat him, they create the largest single organism ever seen by the imperium, with the biomass of almost half a hive fleet invested into it. And then Vulkan beats it to death, possibly getting killed in the process, reviving in a more "normal" size, and leaving the tyranids as a scary, but no longer overwhelming faction due to having lost so much Biomass against Vulkan.

[@RorikH]

@@Santisima_Trinidad I do not think this theory should happen, but it nevertheless goes hard.

[@1IGG]

Necrons.

[@anaacolomb]

the embodiment of the emperors will, to not only protect, but to desire, to put at ease, to possess vast foresight, one of the sole players on the field of the game, that can be truly said to be, in all games or plans, troublesome he can basically turn the tide of anything wherever he goes sangys not dead, theyre just keeping him in their hands to play him when itll be most dramatic to do so

[@Niave_Ahole]

I was hoping for the red thirst. He then take a bite out of Horus’ face exposing brain matter but lives although severely weak. Emperor comes him seeing bird boy as a blood thirsty maniac then big E puts him down. But the injury helps the big E defeat Horus.

[@douglastarbox7640]

Well I for one am glad GW didn't try to subvert our expectations with a stupid plot twist for the sake of doing the unexpected.

[@luisdelgado7764]

Exactly. Thank you.

[@myownaccount5058]

“I was wrong, but because of a very specific set of circumstances I was actually never wrong” spoken like a true warhammer player 😂

[@nick3xtremegaming212]

The emps being a chaos god would be such a huge plot twist

[@ryanhampson673]

Damn, this version would just be way more tragic. Big E just trying to talk Sanguinius down while also fending off his blows and then is forced to kill him and it’s all covered up. Something similar happens in the blood angels series where they fight another blood angel that’s fallen to the black rage. After they kill their brother they say the report would say he was killed heroically fighting the enemy and not gone insane and attacking his brothers.

[@yorukage5926]

The theory was just dumb in general. Sanguinius the heavily injured primarch killing a full strength beast like Horus is hilarious

[@xzenitramx666]

Yeap

[@sebastianhovenas272]

Naaah it makes a fuck ton more sense than the emperor suddenly becoming a good father😂😂😂

[@xzenitramx666]

@@sebastianhovenas272 remember that what we know before this its emperial propaganda, he most likely will try to avoid destroy more tools.

[@rocco24554]

@@xzenitramx666it’s a broken tool. With what we know he shouldn’t blink an eye especially after seeing sanguinius was dead

[@ArantyrDarkhand]

@@sebastianhovenas272 Theres plenty of pieces of lore where the emperor show to like the primarchs, and the oposite happens too.

[@brya9681]

It wasnt too much of a plot twist it was just dumb

[@sebastianhovenas272]

Still makes more sense then the emperor suddenly becoming a good father 🤣

[@desitri2956]

@majorkill think we will be getting the BIG E models before Christmas :D ?

[@SerV689]

Video idea: all the times the emperor has been wounded

[@RaldoronWOR]

Spoilers in the title dude? Come on.

[@averagemaverick9848]

Who knew Horus would betray the Emperor during the Horus Heresy? Crazy stuff

[@Meatsquadron]

Crazy. You have plenty of time to click off.

[@nathandeporto9549]

I know. I bought the book on release to avoid that kind of crap.

[@120mmsmoothbore2]

Ah yes, spoilers for decade old lore everyone knows about.

[@Type_3_Screamer]

Who knew GW would stick to lore that's been around for a decade?? Oh yeah pretty much everyone

[@transfan962]

Do a video on the chief librarian from each legion.

[@gavinandersen8128]

Just a random thought. Both of the returning primarchs have gotten something The Emperor used. The lion the shield of the Emperor. And G-Man the sword of the Emperor. What would be the next primarch to come back based of off weapons/armor. My thought is Dorne because of the power claw of the Emperor.

[@TexMeta]

Angels of Death Episode 9 when you see visions of Sanguineous fighting Horus is fuckin amazing. I'm gonna have to read these books now.

[@andarchy1386]

I think the rage ending would've been more interesting for sure but I would have hated for sangy to have lost his dignity like that after being the absolute Chad he was through the heresy not one single person thinks the emporer stands a chance either including himself that's why he starts to gorge on the warp so I'm interested to see how it all goes down

[@EmperorSaistone]

Heard it here first and really loved it. It also underlines the potential that Sanguinius might have had would have opened a plot line, as to why why the emperor made Sanguinius that powerful.

[@kapistar1]

Another brilliant video Fulgrim!

[@bachtranlequan1806]

I think we can have a way to tie up all loose ends. Make it so that Hawk Boi fell into the Black Rage, fought Horus, wounding him but could not go any further after Bald guy activated his trap card I mean Chaos hacks. Then makes it so the Big E arrived at the battle, Hawk boi, not recognizing friends from foes, attack Big E. He's not able to land a hit on big E, but occupied his attention enough that Horus got thru and landed a mortal blow onto the emperor. This way, big E was not wounded by the bs " I still love you sonny" thingy. Then Horus, after crippling Big E, turned his attention back to Hawk boi and 1 shot him. Big E then blasted Horus with his kamehameha, destroying his soul like in canon.

[@rickm9244]

The Chaos gods would know. They knew and did deals with the emperor. So they would spread it far and wide of he killed one of his loyal sons.

[@JackC92]

I loved this book! the gorgon coming back with a sore neck was great aswell. Roll on book 3!

[@irishwristwatch2487]

Excuse me!? Damn Im gonna have to get this now!

[@piratehunter1]

my man i still think you are right. the book never said hawkboy was dead..his spine is just broken... what if big e and horus fighting triggers him going black rage super sayan and big e actually getting messed up from hawkboy instead and big e having to put him down.

[@LightCrasher]

I very much hope that once the Emperror`s physical body will die, he will become the God of Order and will dramatically change his prospective on how to govern his Empire)