THE RETURN OF KONRAD CURZE! THE PRIMARCH THE EMPEROR NEEDS?

Hey everyone Rho here! Today we're discussing the return of Konrad Curze, Primarch of the Night Lords. How he could be the Primarch the Emperor truly needs right now...
General Spoiler Warning to begin as today we will be referencing events from across the Warhammer 40,000 Universe. So you have been warned!
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[@TalosValcoranOfTheFirstClaw]

Loyalists Konrad Curze is introduced to Carcharodons Konrad: Behold my Sons, it is me, Your Primarch Carcharodons: Corvus Corax?!

[@larsbackstrom3036]

The hints that the Charchradons are descendants of the Night Lords are more than subtle in both Red Tithe and The Outer Dark. I feel it appears to be cowardice of GW to deny them. It could be techincally true thu, as, apparently, loyalist Night Lords joined the Raven Guard

[@buenapilapil5513]

From what I understand, Carcharadons use a hybrid of Ravenguard and Night Lord gene seed, but are originally descended from the Terran born Ravenguard that Corvus cast out after being reunited with his legion cause he thought they were too similar to the slavers he had just cast down on Deliverance.

[@TalosValcoranOfTheFirstClaw]

@@buenapilapil5513 they were probably formed from Loyalist Night Lords and those Raven Guard you mentioned. So they're closest thing to Loyalist Night Lords we have. If Clonegrim ever return to setting he have Sons of Phoenix(Let's be real, they're not Imperial Fists) and Desth Eagles, so for Konrad there would be Carcharodons, if he ever joins Imperium once more. Would be cool, seeing Konrad Curze leading Carcharodons.

[@insaniam_convertunt_scientiam]

Konrad: _sigh_ (proceeds to murder everything)

[@buenapilapil5513]

@@TalosValcoranOfTheFirstClaw I'd also love to see Clonegrim leading the Sons of The Phoenix, but per Remliez at 40k Theories, that's not likely to ever happen since the author that cane up with that storyline no longer works at GW😔

[@hoboaustin109]

Fun idea. Chaos tries to resurrect Curze. Konrad rages that chaos is why he hated things in the first place. Primaris marines reinforce his legion and he’s no longer surrounded by criminals. He now has a direct outlet for his rage and the resentment of his criminal based legion is gone. Gulliman and El’Johnson can offer him the future he could never have before. Using his visions of the future he can offer a redemption arc for chaos primarchs as new warp entities like demon kings and princes start to take their place

[@SmokeDrake]

I want Konrad Curze to return and get a better life than the one he had.

[@slip6699]

Sold!

[@PhilDavis83]

Emperrors blessing cleansing konrad from chaos and restoring him to what he was meant to be (full glowing metamorphosis)

[@XRyanK]

Tbh I have been waiting for a one of the traitors to return to the fold for so long. It's a ridiculously compelling story line idea. Obviously it can't be any of the true Chaos loverd like Lorgar or Mortarion, Angron etc... but Kurze or Fulgrim for instance are perfect. Kurze's physical form has been slain, but we know all primarchs are warp entities given human form essentially, so he's in the warp somewhere floating around. Plus he always has and always will HATE Chaos. Then Fulgrim. The original is one of the most lethal current traitor primarchs, but Fabius Bile made a perfect clone of him. Pure and loyalist. The original Fulgrims soul lost control of his body when the Laer Blade daemon possessed him. That soul found a new home in his new perfect body. If it wasn't for the fact he got trapped in Trazyn's little museum project... he'd be with the Imperium right now. There like no redemption in 40k. You balls up with Chaos and if you ever try to return you will be incinerated or worse lol

[@perapapic3683]

​@@PhilDavis83the Emperor already hinted that he would do this if given the option. The last conversation he had before he lost his mind to the Golden Throne was him telling Konrad he has nothing to forgive him for as he acted how he was made, that Chaos made him go crazy that he is sorry and wishes he could help him. He says that Konrad is not yet beyond redemption but he needs to seek it out.

[@anakah01]

We stand in Midnight Clad, Ave Dominus Nox

[@shadowwalker3958]

Ravenguard but worse.

[@250914616672152]

@@shadowwalker3958 both kurze and corvus are avengers, the only difference between them, is kurze went insane due to shithole was nostramo and corvus was raised in a good way, that is why konrad hated a lot corvus, both are similar but why corvus is loved by others specially the rest of the primarchs but not him

[@alastor8091]

Night Lords are the biggest cowards. When I first got into 40k I thought they were cool, then it's like, they just go around picking on easy targets.

[@alastor8091]

​@@250914616672152Konrad's misstep wasn't entirely on Nostramos. As his backstory goes, he saw a future where he was what the Emperor intended, but a little boy, a child, scared him into damnation, all because his pride and fear kept him from choosing the best future. Let's also not forget that after he killed the boy, he saw the future he feared was nowhere near taking place, as weapon that he saw used against him was nowhere near him. Curze saw right then and there the future wasn't certain and that his visions could be wrong, but chose to abandon all responsibility.

[@QuayNemSorr]

@@alastor8091 No Astartes are cowards (And they shall know no fear). They are sadists, and easy targets are more fun

[@SeanHenderson]

Kurze hunts down Sevatar and collects his favorite son.

[@ConjoinerGlass]

hard to imagine where sevetar would be after all this time. I love the dude but he didn't have a way to pass that time far as I'm aware

[@BM-wf9uf]

​@@ConjoinerGlassGW could do whatever they wanted with him really. It is however stated somewhere from memory that he dies at some point during the Heresy 🤷

[@Nyctophora]

@@BM-wf9uf That's true but let us believe for a moment that he is in fact living somewhere on an agri-world with his adopted daughter Altani :)

[@heathmcrigsby]

@@ConjoinerGlass3 weeks in the warp and 10,000 years in real space. Sevatar gonna be shocked when he gets out.

[@PapaFunDip]

isnt Sevatar dead?

[@noocnik]

I often think that living in a world overrun by the Word Bearers, the cruelty of the Night Lords would suddenly not seem so terrible.

[@jn6305]

True. If one understands what’s going to ultimately happen to them, body and soul - the word bearers are much more frightening

[@theath1337]

i have no way to justify it but curze returning as loyal (or at least loyal enough) would rule so much.

[@Sweetness71775]

Bring back Konrad Curze sans the Night Haunter. Get the Corona Nox to the Emperor and have him extract Konrad Curze from it but leave the Night Haunter inside.

[@Nyctophora]

@@Sweetness71775 It's the one fan theory I find very plausible! The Corona Nox was clearly meant for something.

[@Blundabus1337]

It's simple: Just takes one good day. Kind of like an opposite joker. If Kurze saw just ONE of his visions to not come true, it'd shatter most of his perception of how hes destined to be evil. Not to mention Kurze freaking hates Chaos.

[@xyph3r]

Konrad is not the primarch the impoerium needs, but the one it deserves

[@justicedemocrat9357]

Uhh...the imperium needs the primarch, idiot.

[@lordnagatron]

Meh. Nice slogan,can apply to any primarch

[@soccerandtrack10]

The inperium is nastromo... But bigger.

[@gamechanger8908]

​@@soccerandtrack10 so... Exterminatus the Imperium?

[@alexjagi3448]

@@gamechanger8908 yes

[@smackroscoe]

A loyal KC is a perfect scalpel to use on that one specific SOB that has to be removed to keep everyone else in line while ensuring absolute minimal collateral damage. If there was 1 Primarch that could absolutely terrify the dark Eldar it’s our very own Batman & his crew. He’d quickly rise up the ranks to become a favorite Primarch in 40k. Needs to happen!

[@ltdowney]

It’d be awesome for sure, but I can’t see them changing any of the primarch allegiances, much as I give them credit for trying to make SOME advances to the narrative. Main reason being it might piss off some Chaos Night Lord players.

[@MuShinnen]

​@@ltdowneynothing is stopping chaos night Lord players from continuing to play them if this were to occur. There are plenty of offshoot bands of astartes that abandon the man group.

[@ltdowney]

OK, I’m just saying, imagine Rogal Dorn comes back but turns to Chaos, imagine the reaction from Imperial Fists, or everyone else for that matter.

[@MuShinnen]

@@ltdowney Dorn's dead so that wouldn't happen. Besides comparing the far more level headed loyalist, to the insane, and broken Primarch that is Konrad doesn't make sense. He could very much redeem himself given the proper scenario, whereas it would take far more effort to explain why a loyalist would suddenly flip to chaos given everything that's already happened. Heck the fact that his astartes don't actually worship the chaos gods could also work to the idea of a redemption.

[@no-nonseplayer6612]

better yet what if KC tries to firn out if tyranids can learn fear

[@redmantis9301]

I want to point out for those who dont understand Kurze fully. Curze went insane not because his philosophy was wrong, but because he couldnt reconcile his own actions with what he thought he was meant to do. He acted as he was always meant to (the emperor said so himself) but no matter the fact that he thought what he was doing was for a greater good, he couldnt shake his prophetic visions of the Horus Heresy. He was called a monster, and reasoned that the Emperor made him to be a monster that was supposed to be put down eventually. He thought this was the Emperors plan all along, and so the evil things he did for a greater good, became nothing more than evil and unjust deeds in service of a tyrant. So when Kurze was killed, it was the ultimate proof he was right. He and our brothers were nothing to anyone but monsters to be used and disposed of.

[@TKUltra971]

Except what he did to Vulcan counters all that. Then there was the retconning in his HH Primarch novel. With the emperor gone and him over-riding his mental programming with wiping out his own home world then siding with Horus his insanity was left unchecked.

[@Nyctophora]

The retconning was one major reason why his Primarch novel was so bad, to be honest. I was so disappointed. We knew that the visions were always of the worst possible outcome, and Konrad had tried to change their outcome many times before realising that he couldn't, and was doomed to witness them. They could be wrong, but just often enough to keep him dealing with doubt. There was never a choice point in any other book about him choosing the worst outcome - far from it. He had no capacity to choose. Guy Haley is on record (in the afterword to Pharos, iirc) as saying that he doesn't like predestination, so maybe he wasn't the best one to write about a man who constantly has to deal with it. Saying that Konrad chose the worst completely removes the point of the visions and makes him a two-dimensional arsehole instead of a man dealing with a moral paradox. @redmantis9301 I fully agree - it was the strain of having to do what he knew to be wrong and sinful that drove him mad. There was no more loyal servant of the Emperor than Curze, at the start. If his father wanted him to be a monster for the Imperium, Curze would be that monster. He spared himself nothing. This was a man of such high moral tone that he could not allow himself to steal food when he was starving. Starvation alone can drive a person mad, and we all know that the outcome was cannibalism. Curze hated what he had to do in order to do his work, and he hated himself for doing it, but he wouldn't fail his Emperor-given purpose. He never once tried to seek forgiveness, for he felt that he was too much of a monster to deserve it. Konrad gave the Emperor everything, including his sanity. And then the Emperor discarded the Eighth as his dirty little secret. No place in the Imperium for the horrors of the Vhnori Resurgence or Piamen. While the other Primarchs might have been shocked, the Emperor had no problem with the Nostraman compliance. I'm not saying that he was a lovely, moral, nice man who never did anything wrong, because for one, Curze himself didn't think that, and two, being a monster who does awful things despite being created to dispense justice is a major part of his character. Curze was so much more complicated than a moustache-twirling villain, and I'm very happy to see a video where this is recognised! If only the Emperor had done more than cure that one vision of horror, that one time. Konrad could have been a terrifying force of precognition. Who could get away with sin when the Night Haunter could see your crimes before they even happened?

[@lokensicarius9347]

Except it shows how easily led astray by his visions since the big E being a cripple at the time didn't order his assassination, his whole "vindication" was a load of shit.

[@mattfox2716]

I absolutely love this idea. I think it’s spot on. If a loyalist Night Lords chapter was tasked with cleaning out corruption in a Hive City or even if it was pitched against a war band of chaos you would have characters trying to outdo each other hunting the fallen and despoiled…..that would be some awesome lore.

[@Motard.Actual]

I feel Iron warriors would be better at this.

[@jonharrison9222]

Magnus founded the Space Marine Librarius. Lorgar created the Space Marine Chaplain and unwittingly founded the Imperial Cult. Wouldn’t it be fitting if Kurze in some way unwittingly founded the Adeptus Arbites?

[@dreadbringer]

I kinda like that theory, the book of kurze being the arbitrs future lex imperialis.

[@whichDude]

I like the idea of Konrad returning as a loyalists just to see him fight traitor primarchs. I think he fought every loyalists primarch except Russ, and I guess Dorn cause he just kinda shanked him. Dude is a great measuring stick for combat abilities of the loyal primarchs since we have so many showings of his brothers fighting him. Let him fight traitors, and the measuring stick becomes even more accurate. Kurze lives to be crazy, and throw hands.

[@kubapiwowarczyk599]

Russ outright states that he sees Curze in the similar tier to Sanguinius, better than him straightforward combat.

[@johnanon658]

Umm, that gnicker ded

[@BM-wf9uf]

​​@@kubapiwowarczyk599Except we now have canon lore that makes that untrue 🤷 We know Sanguinius had no equal in the Primarchs when it came to fighting. Kurze fought Lion El'Jonson 3 times for a record 0-1-2 And given Russ beats Horus after he received his Chaos blessings I think we can place Russ above Kurze as well. I'd put Kurze at number 5 at best on the tier list of Primarchs when it comes to fighting.

[@saltedllama2759]

@@BM-wf9uf But it's always written in a way that works when convenient. Sanguinius could have beaten Ascended Horus, for example, but he first was awake and battling for months without rest, fought Ka'Bandha then Angron within hours of each other (and was stabbed through by a demon weapon), entire companies of marines by himself, three titans, and then had to resist "ascending" himself or risk becoming an abomination when battling Horus. Meanwhile, Horus was fresh as a daisy having done nothing for months except warp-charging like a battery. Vulkan expressed being able to defeat and overpower any of his brothers - as the physically largest of them - but his compassion and protective nature means he always holds back. Any with powerful psychic abilities could avoid combat all together, of course. They write for someone to win based on whatever they need in that moment. All of the primarchs are ridiculously powerful, and would put characters like Thor or Superman to shame in comic books; they are twice the size of Hulk or Juggernaut, and have speed that makes them an absolute blur to human eyes.

[@LordGrandKaiser]

@kubapiwowarczyk599 That makes sense, Sang and Curze both being precogs as they are. It's hard to win a fight against someone who knows what you're going to do before you do.

[@ShadowPhoenixMaximus]

I wouldn't be surprised if we see more "suspicious" successor chapters when Corax pops back

[@ironsightsmcgillycudy7753]

Listen, one of the reasons Konrad went insane is his inability to see the good timelines with his predictions. Instead of using his soul stone to revive him outright it would be way more interesting to see some scenario where loyalists infiltrate the Vengeful Spirit and the fragments of Sanguinius' soul grants the Night Haunter some reprieve and grants him the ability to see both the best and worst timelines.

[@Maxidemt]

Hey dat world be super dope

[@painlord2k]

The problem isn't he didn't see but never believed the good timelines were real. He never did anything to get the good things he saw. His second in command told him so, himself.

[@Hellbeckons]

@@painlord2k this he saw multiple timelines at once but he let his darkness win just likw perturabo and magnus with his hubris

[@ditmarvanbelle1061]

There were no good timelines. All his prediction came true.

[@Hellbeckons]

@@ditmarvanbelle1061 its said that there was a moment during i think an attempted rape of a young woman that he held the boy behind its life in his hands and saw both timelines where the boy joined him and saved his life and then one where he betrayed conrad and became the boy who beat him and fearing this rumor could spread and undo all his fear work he chose to kill him.

[@davidrice5030]

New favorite head cannon, Kurze has been alive the whole time running the assassinorum, in the shadows. the assassin pulled a switcheroo, for him to escape leading his legion and do something else. He's used his powers to predict the right people to send the assassins after. ooooh baby

[@AlexVardr]

That's a twist I could get behind. And shank it.

[@carltonadams2514]

That’s a really cool and rational way to get KC back into setting without another returning primarch. The issue would be how KC escapes the emperor’s notice for the past 10k years

[@dreadbringer]

That would make some sense, i like this.

[@ArnoldJudasRimmer..]

*Konrad gets revived...* 'REEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!' ~ Konrad Curze

[@topgunskrill1392]

Accurate af 😂😂😂

[@ArnoldJudasRimmer..]

@@topgunskrill1392 God Emperor love him 🤦🤣

[@nekomancer4641]

Reformed Konrad would indeed be cool

[@vontheunknown7982]

Konrad Curze has an Eldar soul stone in his crown, when he died. It could be a way to bring him back by finding the crown, but what do you guys think?

[@TalosValcoranOfTheFirstClaw]

I was thinking the same, but you need to find that Crown first

[@vontheunknown7982]

@@TalosValcoranOfTheFirstClaw I think a night lord has it, but game workshop may end up retconning. that?

[@bakuya99]

@@vontheunknown7982They could write up a great way of resurrecting him.

[@c.m.4313]

Imagine wraithlord Curze v the Inquisition

[@FragbiteOeXistenz]

@@c.m.4313Take my money

[@ecki74]

Konrad Curze would be the perfekt Head of the Officio Assasinorum and the Inquisition. (Pun intended)

[@raftguy1376]

Imagine him coming back, and then realizing 40k has shaped the imperium and in his image. Glass is half empty everywhere.

[@chrismorel8613]

They should find zho shaal from whatever filing cabinet they stuffed him in and use his gene seed he was in statis since death of kurze. He never went into eye of terror=no degradation or mutation. He understood that fear was the tool not the end result. He was the First raptor. Imagine the terrorstrike chapter he could have made

[@ricardoandre7049]

Even jf there was NL geneseed is stupedly stable. Probably the most stable in all traitor legions.

[@tzimissce]

"Yes, Nostramo pushed him a little further down the path them planned" ~ Cuts for Konrad skinning a 6 year child and eating him brain: - A LITTLE???

[@arcahmwinters70]

My boy comes back? Hell yes!

[@TheSiladhiel]

Conrad is The night. Not the shadows. Thats the problem. He is evil and broken to the point that even uncorruptted he is vile. Corvus is the Shadows. Not to mention that hes been on a quest of vengeance to slaughter every warp tainted entity he can for what? 10,000 years in the warp. I would like to see a loyal... redeemed... and psychically healed Conrad return. it would be interesting to see who he was truly meant to be. The dude was literally meant to be 40ks Batman, but became the batman who laughs. But no, Corvus should lead the crusade of vengeance. With The lion being his hammer... chaos being the anvil... and Guilliman being the brain and glue that keeps the gears moving and the Imperium slightly less corrupt and full of fuckery.

[@raftguy1376]

He’s batman with Joker’s psychology

[@_the_eversor_lad_]

Wrong. Corax is the night, Curze is what lurks in the darkness.

[@Eggsecuter]

I’m a fan of both Corvus and Konrad and I do think this new Corvus sounds very much set on vengeance, but I’m wondering if he’s capable of leading a legion anymore. He might just be a one man army at this point so idk

[@matiashamalainen7965]

10 000 years in the warp might be 10 days in rs

[@scrotusmaximus3043]

They'll stick the soul stone in a dreadnaught fit for a primarch. I'd actually like to see that personally, doesn't have to b curze but it'd be a fitting way to curb his tendencies while keeping him useful.

[@elmarto4743]

Night Lords watching their father return without his insanity: *chuckles* Im in danger!

[@AstraBuilder.01]

Ave Dominus Nox! Victoria Per terrorem Iustitia Per poenam

[@davidmiddleton7958]

Konrad Kurze (aka Night Haunter) is far too unstable to want a return. Of all the Primarchs, Kurze's visions had sent him way over the edge! The Horus Heresy novels showed exactly what Kurze was capable of. Vulkan got some unfavourable treatment from the Night Haunter. For the ordinary folk of the Imperium, Night Haunter was akin to a Daemon of the Warp. However, systems pushed to the edge, may decide to risk all, despite the threat of the Night Lords. To para-phrase, some times crazy works!

[@raftguy1376]

Black dragons are loyalists. But the imperials can barely comprehend them as such. Him being terrifying is kinda just what the doctor ordered. And his visions may have made his behavior out of place in 30k, but in 40k he’d likely feel vindicated.

[@Krojester]

Tyberos and the Carcharodons would work just as well.

[@CMTechnica]

It’s evident from their books they’re a Raven Guard successor, it’s all but confirmed

[@spacedoubt15]

Everything you alluded to has parallels in the effectiveness and tactics of the Inquisition. I don't remember what novel in the Heresy series mentioned that each legion had its role to play post crusade but I remember something along the lines of 'one to watch for threats without, another to guard against threats from within." I had always assumed the Alpha Legion would be one of those, but imagining the Night Lords as terrifying enforcers of the Imperial will, ruthlessly excising traitorous cults and rebellions, makes a lot of sense. Very cool discussion Rho.

[@edgargross2789]

I think GW is not afraid of bringing Primarchs back, even from the dead. Returning Primarchs was inconceivable just 10 years ago and now we've got two running about with Leman and Corax most certainly making their return somewhat soon. How they would go about reviving Curze is beyond me (I'm aware of the whole Corona Nox thing but that has been debunked if I'm not mistaken) but I feel like they can retcon a few things if absolutely necessary. To top it all off, he is quite possibly the best candidate for redemption out of all of the traitors. A revived, cured and loyal Curze would be an insane direction to take but a welcome one in the end.

[@Nyctophora]

It hasn't been debunked, but it has no official support, so ... I guess the result is the same :) We don't have GW's say so but we also don't have their er, say-no.

[@Uzzgub]

A Interaction for the Interaction God, a Comment for the Comment Throne, for the Almighty Algorithm

[@jordandubois7385]

conrad immortalized as a daemon primarch through dark king. lets go!

[@bulwyf2572]

Konrad's soul is in the massive soulstone in the "Lord of the Night" novel by Steve Spurrier. I can definitely see GW bringing him back by the Big E or Bile providing him a cloned body so his soul can inhabit it and be reborn. Ave Dominus Nox!

[@MarkStorey-dc4tm]

I see what you're saying, a loyal Curse would definitely be useful. Even so with imperial government collapsing across so much of the imperium I'd rather have a super-bureaucrat like Guilliman.

[@wolfgangrecordings]

curze was tormented by terrible visions for his whole life and welcomed his death at the hands of m'shen at the end, in fact one version of the story has him deliberately letting her kill him, and also he didn't give his soul to chaos like most of the other traitor primarchs did, he abandoned everthing including his own legion, so it seems an *extremely* remote possibility that chaos could/would resurrect him or that he'd even want to be resurrected

[@chadtiefenauer1232]

I wanna see Konrad come back. But a sane Konrad. Just too see what he could have been

[@akatorthedank9985]

Loyalist Curze would be The Emperors Judgement. He is an expert in Law.

[@timothylyons5686]

If Konrad tad remained loyal then who would have swapped sides?? The Gorgon, the Khan, the Raven.even the Wolf King.

[@Krazyabe]

Wow. Never thought of this. Curze would be right at home in the current setting!

[@ShadowGridStudios]

that's my uncle

[@Gohodan097]

Thankfully we have the Lion (aka Captain Genocide) to fulfill this role

[@robyoung703]

Shout out to curze for being the only primarch to make me involuntarily say "oh no..." after reading the title

[@davidwebster5946]

I think you missed the whole point of the Nigjt Haunter story. He went insane after realising his entire philosophy of compliance through fear doesn't work and even his home world reverted back to type as soon as he left

[@jaskegoffii3968]

I don't think Kurze's philosophy was wrong though, simply incomplete. Fear is an incredibly effective tool, and the collateral damage the Night Lords had to do to bring worlds into compliance during the Great Crusade was miniscule. However, fear can't be the ONLY tool, and that's where he went wrong.

[@mattfox2716]

His philosophy doesn’t work in that kind of context. In this current setting though, he would get to unleash against the arch enemy. I agree with you completely as to why he went insane but I think we have to acknowledge that he truly didn’t see the bigger picture.

[@plastikloser]

People can only live in a state of fear for so long. Then the go back to to being themselves. He needed to have a plan for leadership and governance after that fear wore off

[@davidwebster5946]

@@plastikloser he had installed a government under a guy but the gangs essentially took back control prompting the Night Haunter to enact exterminatus

[@davidwebster5946]

@@jaskegoffii3968 fear is better than nothing to gain compliance but it breeds resentment and rebellion. As soon as your weak those you have oppressed will turn on you. The Night Haunter should have only been used against Xenos but, there is a lot of evidence that Curze was a psychopath who was never truly stable and that his "philosophy" was the thin lid keeping the crazy locked away

[@thisguyjay4085]

The Midnight Clad keeping planets in compliance with Roboute Guilliman running those worlds at peak efficiency, would make an Imperial War Machine not seen since the times of the Great Crusade

[@arionofotherworld]

You have to remember Konrad Curze and 'Night haunter' were something of a split personality. It would take some slight retconning but consider if Konrad Curze had been already actively serving the Imperium, as Tyberos the Red Wake, quietly dedicated to make up for the insanity of his demented Night Haunter persona, long since 'killed' by the assassins Neural Shredder ( while the 'head' the assassin had taken could be retconned to just that of a Nightlord warrior ).

[@somewhereyouarent]

Ave Dominus Nox !!!!! Sanguinius and Kurze have always been my favorite primarchs.. Sevatar and Valcoran have always beem my favorite astartes hands down...wow....how amazing would this be ??!!!

[@Luchiop]

super interesting. Expecting his return now... but Perty first...

[@bobbyrabii6119]

Curze running into the Lion “how many times do I have to break you wanna be Batman”

[@DUNOIS62]

He should be careful then. Last time Konrad went against the Lion, he ended with a broken back and a broken legio. 😅

[@dreadedpunk3473]

Finally. The most brutal Primarch to be mentioned as a possible returnee to the 41'st millennium. Would be interesting to see who he sides with this time around. And if he would side with the loyalists... I wonder how well they would receive him. Especially since the two loyalist Primarchs who are alive are deeply linked with his story, as he has fought them both at the same time. Night Lords & Curze lore is always near the top of my list. Welcome to the 40K universe, neonates, strap in and enjoy the unbridled brutality. On a side note, I'd love to see Ferrus return. There have been fan theories of him leading the Legion of the Damned soo... that would be pretty sick.

[@TheBlackBladder]

Nostramo went rouge in how much time, after Kurze left for the crusade 😅

[@ricardoandre7049]

In about 1 decade cracks started forming but the poisoning of the legion, i think it was like 5 or 6 decades after he left (curze was one of the last to be found after all)

[@mersenniusprime]

I would love to see Konrad come back as an actual, proper renegade with no allegiance to anything but justice. It would be awesome to see him tearing through the galaxy, shattering Chaos, Xenos, and Imperial institutions in equal measure, in accordance with their guilt. They could do so much with that. I would really like to see part of it from Guilliman's standpoint. I could imagine him seeing scattered reports of midnight-clad horrors creeping through the Imperium Nihilus and immediately recognizing his brother's touch. It could add a lot of depth to the Lord Commander's character as he struggles to figure out what to do about Curze. Also, I really like to think that his crown did actually hold a soul stone and that he was accidentally put into an infinity circuit. Being a dead Eldar, someone basically incapable of actually being innocent of anything, in an infinity circuit with Curze is basically the definition of "I'm not stuck in here with you. You're stuck in here with me."

[@tjorgensen8760]

Who better to purge the inquisition

[@joshuasmith5472]

This video fits very well with the army I'm building. I'm doing a loyalist night lords list for 10th ed.

[@thesagepilgrim4441]

Not up to scratch in a …?! There are corpses left in the dust of Istvaan whose silent screams of anguished fury attest otherwise. The VIII did more than clean up after the ambush.

[@b.dickey4209]

Ok, yeah, whew, that's the FIRST place my mind went, to the Primarch/Legion rankings from a few months ago. Super glad you addressed that early on, I totally get the perspective now. But do the worlds beyond the Cicatrix Maledictum HAVE to fear the Imperium? Most of them weren't in open or even subtle rebellion against the Imperium in any way when the Rift open; they certainly wouldn't deserve the Night Lords particular brand of "justice". From the VENGEANCE point of view, oh man, 110% Loyalist Night Lords would be a HUGE boon. I think we're missing someone though; it may not even have to be Kurze: Sevetar. His ultimate fate is still unknown, and one of his last appearances had him musing over his "place", becoming even an Avatar of Vengeance, going after those deserving of punishment. I think we need all we can get, Kurze, Sevetar, and a reformed Loyalist Night Lords.

[@sprrowhawk9306]

I had an idea about this one time. It would be about a night lords warband deciding to reject the night hunters name and be called the sons of konrad taking the name the emperor named him. With them returning to the impirom and offering their service to gilliman in return they can start rebuilding their warband and becoming a legion once again reborn as the sons of konrad not the night lords. Hell i can see them fixing the laws of the impirom.

[@CrispinBac0n]

Good observation

[@marcusjohansson365]

Well his soul is still kicking around in that necklace. He would still be raving mad, but alive non the less

[@JB-sx9nh]

Would require bellasariis cawl discovering old information such as how the emperor made the primarchs and probably skin samples plus who knows what else. More reasonable would be a storyline for decimus and maybe the discovery of old technology that allows the 8th legion to gain the upper hand in a war vs. the imperial fists or ultramarines seeing as they’ve been weakened by the tyranids. Would love to see night lords get some kind of legion specific raptor or possessed unit.

[@cew630]

YESSSSS

[@norbi0405]

If Roboute wish to win against everyone in the galaxy, he just need to find a way to get Perturabo back on loyalist side.

[@boomer03n27]

Of course, I would love to see Lehman, I just don't know if it is his time.

[@garypipe1770]

I think Konrad would be a great addition but I actually think what Corax has now become could be more useful. A vengeful monster who has a fury very few can match

[@Saurophaganax1931]

I don’t see how this wouldn’t tear the Night Lords a part. They both love their primarch and *LOATHE* the Imperium. For him to return and be like “hey we’re fighting for the Emperor again” would be… controversial to say the least.

[@Kier-kr8uo]

The fact that when the lion captured konrad he didn’t kill him compared to what happened to the other traitor primarchs who either got killed or started fighting after trying to be convinced back to being loyal

[@TKUltra971]

Good god. Dude, Konrad coming back he would be like "Told you so..".

[@omiomi3601]

I love Conrad. I always thought he got short changed

[@jameshunter3867]

... The Night Haunter is pleased! 😎 ...Ave Dominus Nox!

[@saculnezretep293]

40k needs Curze because he is fukin cool and his discourse between roboute and the lion would be hilarious

[@user-qz3xt9pl5f]

Hell yeah Night Lords are perfect for this, Ave Dominus Nox

[@jansandman6983]

If you think Guilliman is predictable then he succeeds in making you think so.

[@brandonl7759]

It's honestly criminal how little nightlords content we get. If ADB doesn't want to write more than find someone else. Decimus has been shelved for like 15 years enough is enough

[@ColCoal]

Guiliman: "Father I am back!" TTS Emperor: "Oh jesus, why couldn't I have at least gotten back Konrad instead of papa smurf!?"

[@zeppelincraft1443]

Korad: Why are you talking like I'm the worst son ever when you created me as intended. Also Mortarion exists. TTS emps: Dammit.

[@geminitricks2332]

I think for this to happen the emerpirium need to get a hold of the soul stone that has Konrad in it. If they doing believe the big E can repair Konrad mind in that state while having the custodies make another body for Konrad but put “safety measures” in it. But even if this happens the night lords are done Konrad would get no say to the fate of his sons Idek if big E would let them rejoin if the surrendered except maybe 1, sevatar. If sevatar lives he may be able to say some of his brothers

[@Bolz4321]

i think, that would put a bit of fear into Abaddon.

[@judsonbates1359]

I effing love this. This is why Curze was made.

[@SpectralArrow]

if decimus ever puts on the dark crown maybe we'll find out where curze stands

[@AndusDominae]

Perhaps true Angron or a perfect clone (minor warp god soul intact) could actually be the most valuable. As stated, you need all out war, but only so focused at the specific enemies you want to target. Antithetical to the Angron we all know, compassion and healing was his original purpose. Maybe you really want to unleash the dogs (gods) of war, so a general who can show restraint and compassion (especially one with the memories of being the berserker primarch, who chooses to be the apothecary primarch) is what you really need to reign in those dogs.

[@benscoble7346]

That would be epic to have the night lords show chaos true terror

[@badassgibus]

Night lords would be best to bring back not for combat but backline protection. Like ridding hive worlds of chaos cults and gene stealers so the the imperium war machine suffers no hitches or brake downs

[@Ranlac_the_Black]

I don’t think that the Nightlords methods would be especially efektive on a chaos world.

[@ricardoandre7049]

Couldnt agree more. But hell an astartes is an astartes and the 8th do tend to be extremely annoying on the void, with the foresight and everything. It would interesting seeing the nids getting ambusbed for once.

[@potato3457]

What about tau c@ncer?

[@Eggsecuter]

more effective on rebellious worlds

[@DaroriDerEinzige]

The Alpha Legion, Night Lords and especially the Iron Warriors are the three legions which "hurt" the Empire of Man. I mean, sure, the others are great too. But(t!) to be honest here, the Iron Warriors made the whole Heresy possible and kept it going. The Night Lords are the perfect terror weapon and the Alpha Legion ... Well, we all are Alpharius after all.

[@heathmcrigsby]

Certainly helps his soul was and is protected from Chaos.

[@samhobbs9116]

Picture the scene from SW Ep 3 where new Vader is sent to deal with the "separatist leaders" on Mustafar. Need I say more. Edit: When Rho says "No one instils fear like Konrad" my brain went into a Konrad version of the Gaston song from Beauty and the Beast. My brain is fucking weird people. Edit 2: He should come back if any NL (Talos) collects and combines all his war gear back together as when he died. Crown being last of course and then his soul in the gem could possess the wearer and take over the body ala Arthus in WoW or anyone that wears Nagash's Crown in Fantasy.

[@theskywookie929]

i would probably cry if kurze came back as a loyalist tbh

[@Sugarierspoon99]

The imperium would need ferrus and the iron hands in a state like the great crusade the most.

[@Caesar308]

Honestly... The three I want to return. Kurze, Jaggetai Khan, and Vulkan.

[@elmarto4743]

Im not sure a loyalist Konrad would last long anyways, if he sees how fked the imperium got, he would go renegade real quick. Maybe he can reunite the night lords (after killing off 90% of them) to fight off chaos and the imperium at the same time, using their hit and run tactics with the aid of a primarch would do wonders for them.

[@CrestviewCutters]

Yes please! Yaaaaasssss please!!!!!

[@TheBestgoku]

This woud be one hell of a curveball.

[@slip6699]

Yesss!

[@warriorforyah777]

"Death is nothing compared to vindication"

[@akatorthedank9985]

BASED

[@mastergmoore]

Konrad from the Dornian Heresy but with a 40K comeback would be insane.

[@robertkb64]

Who does the Emperor (not the Imperium, but the Emperor) need more than Kurze? Magnus, who is the only one reasonably likely to help him stand up, but we don’t know what happened to Janus (so the easy way is off the table)

[@gamingborger]

way i know it of curze and his night lords, only thing that could be considered 'wrong' with it is that it was largely made of criminals. every primarch excelled at something, for curze it just so happened to have been terror

[@eldkniver]

one thing i think is a little funny. gw leaves narratives open with just about everything (excluding ferus manus), but there are a few things people accept as canon among those things, that were clearly left open for later. like curze welcoming the assassin in and then the camera panning away as if to say "this is were he died". but thats the oldest movie trick in the book, it doesnt really mean anything, it just eludes to the idea he was killed. and then there is dorns hand. and even though luetin made a very strong case that dorn should stay dead,,, hes not, maybe not this year but hes deffinitly coming back. and i want to see that,, i always want to see that, i even want ferus to come back as a head in a dreadnought,, or as the legion of the damned... but, ill admit it might be better that ferus stay dead even though iron hands are my guys.

[@staven512]

Ok, hear me out. 40k is just The prodigal sons and their return... The lion shows this the most - trading in his "exterminator" sword for a protectors shield. Going from bad dad to rad dad. G-MAN, being an excellent commander being given a flaming sword and called the avenging son. Going from general to warrior. Cruz could the the psycho that sees the worst in people to being empathetic and what they could become. The dude pretty much went 0 hero if you know what I mean, if that's not a crucible to remake oneself, idk what is. I know some do t like the Big Daddy Ps coming back, but I for one love these character developments... It makes me relate to them more.

[@FnRenner]

Curze coming back to the matterium makes sense if Lorgar returns first.