I Went BROKE In A Limped Pot. Bad Play?

[@slow3131]

love these videos, helped me out during a bad luck run, a run you just can't avoid, but reminded me to just stay in my strategy and keep balanced!

[@ThePokerBank]

Cheers Slow!

[@josephpatrick2938]

These live play and explains are absolute gold. Thanks, James!

[@ThePokerBank]

You're very welcome!

[@slbarr88]

Limps with monsters and loose passive play can be SUPER frustrating sometimes, especially if you study a lot and are involved in higher stakes.

[@williamzagarella8066]

He didnt even limp with the monster LMAO. He freaking checked. Unbelievable. In the BB with Kk and you check 🤣. Why even play?

[@ThePokerBank]

They certainly change range assignments =)

[@pot_kivach160]

@@williamzagarella8066 lol, yeah 🦥🎆😹💣💥⚡️🦨🦂🦟💀

[@XiagraBalls]

@@williamzagarella8066 Yeah, very passive/tight or very tricky. Either way, v risky mw.

[@timdelouchrey7597]

I cannot believe I can watch this content for free. Love the way you break down hands

[@ThePokerBank]

Thank you Tim!

[@therbeeo5364]

Yeah, he has a special talent for sure! Like a cooler Bart Hanson, oops I didn't say that 😅

[@Giovani90]

Thank you for putting the effort to generate this content James. It’s very appreciated!

[@ThePokerBank]

You're very welcome Giovani!

[@RobertsBoissiere]

I think it's way more ambitious to claim that villain has enough bluff combos but no overvalued trips. I think a call being good here against the 1/2 population is predicated much more on overvalues than bluffs.

[@ThePokerBank]

I see 1/2 players overvalue things when calling/betting, but not as much when raising on turns/rivers. IME anyway.

[@sdfsafdaasfgsdw8400]

@@ThePokerBank how come no talking about AQ then ?

[@Mitjitsu]

I went broke in the exactly the same situation many years ago in a live game. When a timid player limped in with AJs UTG. I bet on the button with my K high straight only for the over UTG player to check-shove. Me being delighted quickly calls only to be shocked at the bad news.

[@shadowwarsshadypeople6299]

I think it all goes back to it being a really under bluffed spot. There are too many combos that got you beat.

[@ThePokerBank]

Yup.

[@bradjones7835]

I'm a bit surprised by the range assumption re villain not having AQ or QJ. Given middle pair plus a straight draw, I think calling a raise and re-raise on the flop could make sense. So would checking the turn to induce and shoving a small to medium sized river bet.

[@ThePokerBank]

I just didn't assign AQ/QJ to the river shoving range - I do think they are in the BB's range before they raise though!

[@aaronrobertson8392]

One thing you didn’t address is what did the CO have?

[@BB-re6nz]

I like when players bet even amounts of money. It often takes 2/3x the amount of time to get a table of limpers to call or figure out $7 than just toss in 2 red chips.

[@ThePokerBank]

Yup

[@paulpena5040]

I noticed something interesting here. While Sweeney is consciously aware he's playing at $1/$2 his instincts and reflexes are still giving WAY TOO much credit to his opponents. He's sometimes considering them bluffing, raising with thin value, squeezing, etc. They are NOT that sophisicated they are not thinking like that. When the board rolls off K, Q, T rainbow and they raise you. They have a set or 2 pair. THAT'S IT. It's never a pocket pair getting tricky, it's never an A high getting out of line and rarely a made straight. While they do play extremely straight forward even a donk knows to slow play the nuts a little so you can HIGHLY discout a made straight. That bet @ 3:40 is no good. There is NO WAY they raised you with a lone K. The best you could hope for is that they have K 10 and too much wishful thinking.

[@ekw555]

@6:43 you said "negative 181", but you meant "negative 81" (of course).

[@ThePokerBank]

Oops =(

[@XiagraBalls]

The thing I've never got with EV calculations is whether you can realistically expect to be in this exact situation ever again (with the same players) or do you have to use a broader brush - e.g. I have a second nut st on a paired board and the action has been the same as outlined in this video?

[@ThePokerBank]

The goal is to pick up the big picture ideas through numerous solves, not to memorize each individual solve that only applies to singular examples =)

[@M.S.Fitness]

Do you still work with Doug at Redchip? Listening to some old podcasts and he's one hell of a cash game player especially at 1/2. I would love some input from him also that would be awesome

[@ThePokerBank]

I do. He's on the Discord sometimes: redchippoker.com/discord

[@TheSodakboy93]

I generally don't think players in 1-2 bluff river enough and you'll make money long-term overfolding against the population. That being said, I wonder if this is a spot where betting tinier is better. If we bet $20-25, for example, we get more hands to call (you could see easily JT/JJ call here), induce bluffs and potentially induce some overvaluing with hands like QJ. $20 also may keep your opponents from jamming here, as when they have the nut portion of their range they might raise smaller assuming that you don't have a strong hand. I think I'd put J9 and my Qx in that smaller bet size, and maybe AJ and full houses in a somewhat bigger bet size (like $50) along with some bluffs I intend to fold to shoves. I'm not sure multiway I want to have a giant bet size.

[@ThePokerBank]

I think the calling mistakes at the limit make the slightly larger than $20-$25 size better. The downside being you get a better price against a shove, but like we agree, it's still likely a bet/fold without better reads =)

[@sr4087]

As Hanson says; bluffing earlier live is NOT the same as raising on a river Bluff.

[@ThePokerBank]

Truth

[@abbeybon]

2:54 I talked about this hand before (in the original video) but I like to add: the relatively big actions on the flop is the part that we missed to consider here (IMO) for taking/making the best line/decision on the river. If a BB flats my (SB) donk-pot-bet-lead AND THEN AGAIN over-calls reraise (4way at the time & still OOP) I would definitely be double careful, especially for calling down the river. I mean it's just a strange spot, how can the villain bluff his whole stake on the river WITH 1 PLAYER BEHIND after flatting 2 raises on the flop?

[@ThePokerBank]

Is the player behind likely to be **that** strong after checking the turn behind? Wouldn't they bet, even if just on the small size, with boats on the turn?

[@abbeybon]

@@ThePokerBank Well, it's a strange table with unusual playing (like check back KK on BB after some limps!) So I guess we can expect any other unusual move as well + even good players with strong hands might check back the turn too in some frequency. But the dude's hand behind isn't the matter itself, just him being there makes the river push a very scary bet into 2 opponents (both as aggressors & most likely interested in this pot). So how about answering your question with a new question James 😜: do you think (as the real genius here 😻) it could EVER be a bluff?

[@WokeSteve]

New strategy.Limp KK and confuse all.

[@ThePokerBank]

Mission accomplished: I'm confused!

[@gofa4201]

Honestly for me it depends on the player and how he or she has been playing that night. If they're an aggressive player I bet/call the river, if tight or semi-tight I check/call. I base my decision(s) 50% reads/tells and 50% mathematics/ranges.

[@ThePokerBank]

Reads & tells inform the math & ranges, so you are spot on to consider both!

[@bubblewhip382]

I'm just so confused that anyone shows up with that kind of hand that doesn't raise preflop. I'm not sure how much high hand plays into things but it feels like it would mess up your strategy so much to expect bad plays like limping kk

[@jeffryglenn7024]

You see this quite a bit in 1-2. Stacks are VERY deep relative to the BB (100x+ typically) so fighting for blinds isn't all that important, and 5x+ raises often see nothing but folds. Trapping only needs to work once or twice to be profitable (and you're not advertising premium hands).

[@SerErryk]

People love to limp/raise with KK and AA.

[@ThePokerBank]

High hand promos create this type of dynamic from a LOT of 1/2 live players

[@G0DofRock]

People love to punish limpers, and clearing the board of aces then raising the river was good.

[@Its__Good]

What was your logic for not reraising the flop? I'm pretty sure I would have gone broke the same, but stacks inside before the river.

[@ThePokerBank]

if I try to get AI on the flop, the equities will either be quite close or have me dead. And with full AJ in many ranges, I don't love that set up.

[@LukeLastname103]

What do you think about check calling the river in this spot?

[@ThePokerBank]

I think it misses some value, and still prefer the bet > check tbh

[@bossbear7187]

Same in my poker room...they run pretty good promotions and most come for the "high-hand" jackpot and limp/check alot trynna hit it. Its really juicy. As we know, they will hit their draws sometimes but conversely will let opponents "get there" when they hold premiums. Its a minefield.

[@ThePokerBank]

Yes it is!

[@bossbear7187]

@@ThePokerBank Early riser too huh? fyi, hard rock has a tournament series going on that will undoubtedly trickle onto the cash tables for the next few days....just saying.

[@SerErryk]

Where do you play?

[@bossbear7187]

@@SerErryk tampa

[@SerErryk]

@@bossbear7187 oh wow cool there's a possibility I'm moving there actually. I'm going there next week to check it out Any reason why I shouldn't move there?

[@emilecarette8993]

Hi, very good poker channel sir ! Could you tell me how much big blinds / hour makes a very good reg on live tables ?Of course its very table dépendant... but for exemple at an average 1/3$ in Vegas. How much per hour makes a top reg on these stakes ? I think its around 20bb or 50$/hour on like 1/2 1/3$, do you agree or is it possible to make much more ?

[@ThePokerBank]

This would be a good starting place: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqWzgYpsh81mrJI

[@emilecarette8993]

@@ThePokerBank great, thanks for your answer !

[@ThePokerBank]

@@emilecarette8993 you're very welcome!

[@davefoc]

I wondered about the value bet on the river. I think the goal here is to get to a cheap show down. A value bet might suggest to your opponent you've got enough that you might call an all in bet. On the other hand the value bet does give you the chance to get out if he shoves. But I am afraid I am not as smart as the host, I would have called the shove even after listening to the arguments against it.

[@ThePokerBank]

I think there are plenty of hands that will call a river bet, and betting should be more valuable than checking.

[@maximpokrovskiy4416]

Any decent King or a non-boat Qx would've called the river bet most of the times. So yes, there is value in betting.

[@erdaddy5845]

I agree with your statement that barely anybody at 1/2 live poker would raise all in on a bluff, on the river. Only once in a blue moon have I ever seen that sort of thing.

[@ThePokerBank]

Yup

[@thesneakingninja1]

Why is nobody talking about folding preflop?

[@ThePokerBank]

At least one person mentioned it in the comments =)

[@pot_kivach160]

You did not make mistake by calling the river. You made a mistake by entering the pot.

[@ThePokerBank]

I think I still reverse those =)

[@jerrygarcia4390]

I lost a hand exactly like this online tonight. The villain turned the nuts 🥜 and I came in second 😰

[@ThePokerBank]

😔

[@mikehoolihan8414]

KK, QQ, TT, 33, KQ, QT, Q3, AJ beat you. J9 may have finished 2nd, but you're far from 2nd nuts.

[@lozgod]

Royal flush over straight flush?

[@ThePokerBank]

Not quite lol

[@lvzee]

While I seldom play this small, I'd say that even 2-5 and 5-10 players, who bluff significantly more than 1-2 players are unlikely to be bluff raising in this spot. If you had checked the river, I would expect them to bluff fairly frequently, and to also value bet a lot of losers, like QJ or even KJ, but when you lead, they will almost always fold their misses, call with medium value- bluff catchers (QJ and KJ) and raise their boats. This raises the question of whether it is better to check-call or bet-fold. The former allows you to gain vs bluffs and weak value bets, while the latter insures that you'll be paid by their weaker value hands, but at 1-2 probably removes bluffs from their range.

[@ThePokerBank]

Nicely said Steve.

[@dirkroos1146]

Limping with KK preflop really sucks. Never mind a hand like that. Gave him QTo by the way.

[@ThePokerBank]

QT is also not great for my J9 😭

[@paulboyd561]

Your buddy Ed miller says a big bet on the turn or river should not be called. The 1-2 nl players just don’t bluff enough to call these bluffs. I agree You talked yourself into a bad call. But if you play 1000 hands and play 950 hands perfectly. And 50 badly. Or just not optimally, then you are a GREAT player. so it’s not a big deal in the long run.

[@ThePokerBank]

Cheers Paul! And that Miller really knows what he's talking about =)

[@paulboyd561]

So very glad you agree! Learning so much from these videos. Keep up the great analysis. Love you have no ego.

[@sr4087]

Honey; he showed me a spreadsheet to qualify his opinion that river raises at 1/2 can be a raise!

[@ThePokerBank]

*quantify 😛

[@angeloperezceo8101]

Doing great keep it up.

[@ThePokerBank]

Thanks Angelo!

[@harryzhong7560]

KK check on the big blind, omg

[@fluffysheap]

This is why I don't like gimmick jackpots. The whole casino is full of slot machines if you want to spew money chasing a low probability payout. Anyway, I'd probably raise flop. It's 1-2, you will get called by AK and similar much more than your opponent will have AJ, which is the only hand that beats you. But in this particular situation because of the stupid high hand gimmick, KK will never fold and never raise. Best way to deal with this situation unfortunately is to play somewhere else.

[@TheNoodlingTroubadour]

Yea I'm not a fan of the high hand either. Unfortunately all 1-2 tables have them in AC. There's so many stipulations:min 30 in pot, aaa/kk, and U have to be discreet when asking for help to play it out. Players come up w a codeword like "hippopotamus" to get enough money in pot. It changes the whole game to the point of becoming bingo

[@ThePokerBank]

There is actually a lot of extra profit making potential due to the way most players adjust with the HH Jackpot - but it comes with a little extra variation in range assignments =)

[@TheNoodlingTroubadour]

@@ThePokerBank I feel like everyone is just sitting around waiting for HH. Last night when it would fold around to blinds, people would say let's play it out, then give 2 bucks back to each other! Then if I raise or 3! They go "O come on, what about the high hand lol

[@eugenewalter3170]

Great content.

[@ThePokerBank]

Thanks Eugene!

[@lowlimitcashgamespodcast]

Complete small blind with J9 off. 🤔 Fold pre. Nothing to discuss. Next hand.

[@ThePokerBank]

Do you really feel it's that black-and-white? Not close in the slightest?

[@VengerSatanis]

At $1/2, opponents will absolutely have AQ, JQ, and QT in their range. Maybe even AK.

[@skyeangelofdeath7363]

First mistake was the donk lead. Not there yet but I'm guessing you call the shove, 2nd mistake. 2 is the limit on one hand. Byyyeee

[@ThePokerBank]

Semantics: but it's not considered a *donk lead* after the turn gets checked through =)

[@skyeangelofdeath7363]

@@ThePokerBank You called from the blind & then opened the action on the flop correct? Also; the "donk" part of "donk lead" is a shortened version of "donkey" which is poker slang for a poor or inexperienced player.

[@aaronrobertson8392]

Why lead River? See what they do

[@atxgaming6998]

yes keep doing these breakdowns and i hope as many people as possible watch it...would be great news for my bankroll...

[@ThePokerBank]

🙃

[@bmh010lionmail]

Cool video. But It’s a fold a pre lol

[@StreetSoulLover]

Limped pots are absolute death in 1/2 The arguement against raising is that you keep players in here, you might get 2 players at showdown and the SPR means if anyone has 2pair+ the money is going to be in by the river anyway. I think the flat is great actually. As for the shove on the river. This is always value - I will be as unbalanced as hell here because there are so few players raising the river here as a bluff or even over-valuing a queen

[@ThePokerBank]

Yup

[@grindix]

Extremely unlikely bb is bluffing when there s been a bet and a raise on the flop with many strong hands available in your and co range. For the same reasons you dont think bb will be jamming trip Qs (QJ) for value he shouldnt be attempting a bluff with all those Jx habds you put in his range.

[@ThePokerBank]

There's a decent difference between someone turning trips into a bluff and turning Jack-high into a bluff though.

[@grindix]

The Poker Bank you mentioned its unlikely the bb is jamming a hand like QJ for value; not as a bluff. That must be because of the heavy flop action. Seems like for the same reasons Jx should be less incentivized to bluff.

[@dandattola]

Some pretty clown like play by the winner pre flop. Limp with kings. Would hav cried had ak ace flopped about his kings getting beat.

[@7CardFlushPoker]

Gotta love Orange City…

[@ThePokerBank]

Yes indeed

[@TazControl9]

Pull a Doug Polk and just fold it.

[@pricekeene511]

This video is why I’m leaving red chip. I’m paying you 50 a month for you to teach people how to use flop Z to tell them its even remotely possible you’re ahead on that board 😂. Dude I see people limp AK+ all day. Just fold J9o out of P

[@MusicalSawMen]

The mistake you made is not adjust your strategy to player. Given the bluffly player, the check call is definitely more lucrative and with lower variance !

[@ThePokerBank]

If this were a HU, I could agree. But not as much with a 3way pot on the river and less reason to think the BB will just bluff wildly.

[@mik3551]

Just a punt on the river, don't overcomplicate things. The plan was bet/fold, stick to the script... Jx almost purely bluffraising river is a little delusional, KJ and JT make nice bluffs but a J alone is nowhere near enough. Furthermore, you have QT and perhaps some KQo as well as some AJ that can call, there's absolutely no need to get sticky with what was once the second nuts given the action.

[@ThePokerBank]

Agreed I should have stuck to the plan!

[@jasonvorhees4279]

People don't bluff raise rivers much at low stakes

[@ThePokerBank]

This is true

[@mikehoolihan8414]

You may need to change your nickname from "Splitsuit" to James "Call off my whole stack" Sweeney

[@ThePokerBank]

And on videos where I win a hand I can be James "Best Decision" Sweeney?

[@mikehoolihan8414]

I won't hold my breath waiting for someone to make a living hero calling big river bets/shoves at 1/2.

[@theguildedcage]

The bottom line is your equity at the moment was far less than the pot odds. You should have folded. Terrible play

[@jeffryglenn7024]

Gee... if you KNOW you're beat, fold. Otherwise, call. Don't really think we need an app to figure that out, but whatever. For the record, VERY FEW 1-2 players RAISE all-in on the RIVER without the nuts.

[@genesises]

nice u didnt even watch the video

[@jeffryglenn7024]

@@genesises Nope... watched the entire thing. The difference is, I understood it.

[@ThePokerBank]

You do need some sort of study to figure out how many combos of hands you beat are actually in their range to make calling good.

[@savvyinvestor]

If you couldnt get away from that river raise you shouldn't be making poker tutorials

[@ThePokerBank]

ok.

[@denniss8644]

The problem with this approach is that if you stare at something long enough you can rationalize anything, that's just human nature. There's nothing stopping you from inputting some ridiculous opponent ranges to make you say, "see, I was right to call!!!" and all you're doing is creating a bias for yourself. Calling a river bet, *especially* at 1/2, is rarely a good idea.

[@ThePokerBank]

I agree overall, but didn't I still come to the same conclusion that it's a better bet/fold after proofing better vs. worst cases?

[@bertwillhealthadvized3897]

When’s your next house game? I sent you a dm on IG.

[@ThePokerBank]

I'll try to check IG today =)