Iain McGilchrist and D C Schindler: Is Love the Source and Sustenance of Everything in the Universe?

Links to extended introductions of the guests follow timestamps.
Iain McGilchrist and David Schindler respond to a question about a passage from Cs Lewis's book, The Discarded Image, then delved into a discussion of the passage and its implications for understanding the nature of God and the universe. They discussed intelligence, beauty, and goodness in the cosmos, and explored the idea that even non-animate aspects of the universe reveal intelligence, beauty, and complexity. They also touched on the idea that good can embrace evil, but evil cannot embrace good.
The speakers engaged in a wide-ranging discussion about the relationship between beauty, order, and the transcendent principle. They explored the idea that disorder and chaos can be incorporated into order to create something even more beautiful and profound, drawing on examples from art, philosophy, and theology. They also discussed the complex and multifaceted nature of intelligence, beauty and love and the importance of values in shaping our understanding of the world.
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
03:00 The impact of love in biology
07:50 The extraordinary question of biological form
09:00 The heart of the philosophical foundation of Western Civilization
10:22 Modernity's move to remove goodness as an ontological principle and replace it with goodness as simply a moral principle
12:22 Everything seeks beauty, actuality
15:40 The need for an absolutely Transcendent First Principle
16:30 The sense of purpose
17:30 Attraction
22:00 The conflict between freedom and love
30:31 The coincidence of opposites and creativity
35:00 Beauty, Order and the Transcendent Principle (The nature of order and disorder in the universe)
51:50 Artificial Intelligence and the Importance of Values
The limitations of artificial intelligence and the importance of embodiment
58:14 Discussion on the Nature of Reality
1:01:06 Views on Reality and Time
The concept of time and its relationship to unity and multiplicity
1:06:07 Discussion on the Implications of Wolfram's Theory
1:09:00 The Importance of Context and Relationship in Understanding Knowledge and Truth
The implications of a principle of analogy in classical metaphysics
The issue of context and its relationship to postmodernism
1:18:35 Love, Knowledge, and Beauty
D. C. Schindler:
www.johnpaulii.edu/academics/...
Iain McGilchrist:
channelmcgilchrist.com/about/
To purchase The Matter with Things
Hardback internationally Amazon.com and BookDepository.com
Hardback UK only ChannelMcGilchrist.com , Amazon.co.uk and other booksellers nationwide
Kindle on www.amazon.co.uk and www.amazon.com

[@salihahmoore]

So glad you brought up Wolfram and honestly feel that the full picture of his theories weren’t represented throughly because there are a lot of connections that I believe resonates with Iains theories… especially Wolframs Observer theory… would absolutely love a conversation between them!

[@dalibofurnell]

Ah yes I remember this from Karen's channel ❤ it is probably one of the few videos that I have watched/listened to over and above 5 times 😅❤ It's possible that this would be the 8th time . Bless your hearts 💕

[@PlumGustave]

♥️

[@TheFlyingBrain.]

Of course it is! Whatever it takes to finally get this across to humanity, that is what we must do.

[@PaulVanderKlay]

Wow! Another big pairing Karen. Excellent.

[@tomgreene1843]

Great to have this on utube ....long may it last!

[@maggen_me7790]

Thank You Karen for asking interesting questions.

[@kbeetles]

A beautiful meeting of minds..... thanks for being invited for the "banquet"!

[@MikeFuller-ok6ok]

Great conversation.

[@Ac-ip5hd]

Always edifying and informative. Still leads to a fork in the road and ought to discuss/debate with the traditionalist Eastern Orthodox, and anti perrenialist/ecumenist position.

[@lifearttimes]

THIS, conversation made me happy. On point , on all points. Thank You. kintsugi, does create another dimension of beauty than the original. I’ve been doing Kintsugi, for a very long time. Goodness, Beauty, Truth & Love is the principle of the Cosmos indeed. C.S. Lewis was an amazing thinker who like many other greats (Carl Jung) had many epiphanies. Shine On, Iain, D.C & Karen!✨✨✨

[@TJ-kk5zf]

great stuff

[@donovan665]

The Nature of the One Substance is Love. Solve et Coagula Her method. We are divided for Love's sake for the chance of union.

[@bodgerliz5138]

As someone who doesn't have a need for a God or gods, I do think that Iain's interpretation of a God is acceptable for taking us into the next philosophical narrative of why the Cosmos is the way it is, and how to relate to all things. It might even leave a space for us to be thinking about a new Ethic, that will get us through the practicalities of living with and repairing the Earth/Planet. Here's hoping.

[@vagabondcaleb8915]

I'd really like to hear these guys talk with Forrest Landry.

[@DreamingOfABetterDay]

I just started watching this, so I don't know if it is pertinent to the topic but have been thinking about it alot lately and wanted to share it with someone and don't really have anyone to share it with that I feel will appreciate it, so if I do it here I don't have to worry about insincerity being reflected back to me. Long intro, just feeling bad today. It's about the first time I felt the holy spirit come into me. I was around 9 years old, give or take a year, and went to a winter camp with my sister and the church she attended. I had only been to church a couple of times and don't really remember being to impressed. One evening they had some of us in a room and they started talking about the crucifixion of christ and went into great detail of the suffering he went through. I just started sobbing. I couldn't believe that people would do that to another person. How cruel we can be. And in that room I remember experiencing a light come into my body and just sit with me in all my grief and sorrow. It was something you cannot explain but I have always known God was real since that day and have been fortunate enough to experience his love and forgiveness, redemption and guidance through out my life. I wonder, God probably new how it was going to go for christ but couldn't change the course because of misunderstanding and denial that needed to come to the light but the way was not known then. Even though God knows all, he also is evolving and had to go through process to understand process. And experiencing is quite a different thing than knowing in advance of the experience. I like talking about God and his Loving light. Thank You. ❤️

[@nicolettebam3877]

That is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing 😊

[@Aaron-xb4rq]

Much of what's discussed here resonates with Ilia Delio's "The Not-Yet God" and the work of Teilhard de Chardin, Carl Jung, and Alfred North Whitehead, among others. It appears we're on the precipice of a God Revolution. It's an exciting time to be alive.

[@liberatedcollective2124]

Everything is in harmony here, we are Harmony. We bloom this plant out, it's our purpose and requires no tools but our bodies alone. Clockwise reveals the pattern, and pattern is relief of pressure. We make the hard soft. We help reveal God in all things. And we are unaware because of the mind being enslaved by a lifetime of psychological trauma.

[@fpalisse]

What are the CS Lewis books referenced ? Especially on loves paradox?

[@chrismarkjones3752]

"The hawk, the hare, the swoop, are one," Gary Snyder.

[@liberatedcollective2124]

Everything is a move towards perfection over time. Pressure is a floral pattern, and each material, thing, is going to eventually fall into it's pattern. It's a pattern all share micro to macro.

[@elizabethmolnar4643]

" SO I sit and eat' - poem - Love III George Herberr.

[@nicolesawyer-jm6ir]

True love must be free ‘ Suffering is an expression of divine as well, how would we know beauty, justice, love without it ? Perfection and imperfection is one and the same Disorder is the expression of the order. Like a great jazz composition- there is expression within the structure. Yea, we return back to the source. Resolution. ‘ Love can embrace hatred ;hatred cannot embrace love ‘ Wow!!!!! Evolution of love. Finding freedom in discipline. Within the order. Trauma healing - the gem is in the fall. In the experience which transmutes the being. Trauma / chaos also can be the destroyer. What ? Puts us back together ? G-d response is to withdraw from space. The tension creates ideas and humanity or being is within this creative force - holding both - the construction of new and destruction of old , to put together even more deep or beautiful. Through this we gain compassion. Relatability and potential of ability to heal others. Science and theology is one. Both are great! We are struggling towards unity. Commonality - finding relationship - bridging. So those of us on the streets can put into action. I’m not a scholar. I am a front line human. Struggling how to bring this to people. Creativity is key. Processes through creativity. 🤔

[@RhoArtMagic]

Who is the wonderful philosopher artist woman whose platform has been active for years, who is the moderator of this episode? What’s her name, please? I do not see it anywhere on this post. Thanks

[@Kim-wq5wi]

Karen Wong, The Meaning Code.

[@maggen_me7790]

💓

[@retrogore420]

@26:30 This is a great point about order. Order is capable of both order and disorder - disorder is only capable of disorder. Wisdom is like order- wisdom is knowing when to know and when not to know.

[@MegaSteve1957]

Excellent - reminded me of Sir Roger Penrose in his battles in relation to computability & the fact that it cannot understand what is doing & most definitely is not capable of consciousness. The ceramic plates in turn put me in mind pf Leonard Cohen - " There is a crack in everything, it's where the light gets in ".

[@wordnative]

What spark be love and the owner of the flint that all who would ever find it would believe …that it is heaven sent.

[@RhoArtMagic]

Conscious Love/Light, Light/Love informs Creation. Fractility of experience riffs eternally with whatever resources are available. We just crossed a consciousnesses threshold on this planet. The light/sound vibrations on this planet are brilliant. Humanity is learning sovereign intent. It just feels like a watershed moment.

[@frustratedatheist9885]

The importance of Rocks! Soils develop because of the weathering of materials on Earth’s surface, including the mechanical breakup of rocks, and the chemical weathering of minerals. Soil is vital to life on Earth because plants can't grow without the water and nutrients it contains, and animals (including us :)) can't survive without plants!

[@ejenkins4711]

Na from an alchemical perspective love is science, most just dont know it CGJ

[@RhoArtMagic]

Continuous creation/destruction cycles that get baked into mythology and projected reality.

[@liberatedcollective2124]

The Good, The One, God, it's physical, observable in all things micro to macro hidden behind overcomplication. Objective reality divided the one. God is the floral pattern of pressure, I found this through shape and pattern during deep rock research by personal observation and experience. Liberation is found through shape and pattern. Liberation from the iron chains of manformation/MAn perspective, and reveals the golden chains of plant biology all show in plain site.

[@tracie6837]

Could someone please link Karen’s channel? Thank you in advance!

[@anhumblemessengerofthelawo3858]

Yes. Questioner: Is Love- is there a manifestation of love that we could call vibration? _Ra: I am Ra. Again we reach semantic difficulties. The vibration or density of love or understanding is not a term used in the same sense as the second distortion, Love; the distortion Love being the great activator and primal co-Creator of various creations using intelligent infinity; the vibration love being that density in which those who have learned to do an activity called “loving” without significant distortion, then seek the ways of light or wisdom. Thus in vibratory sense love comes into light in the sense of the activity of unity in its free will. Love uses light and has the power to direct light in its distortions. Thus vibratory complexes recapitulate in reverse the creation in its unity, thus showing the rhythm or flow of the great heartbeat, if you will use this analogy._ Ra Material

[@rickmcentee9204]

I wish Karen would have just let them talk.

[@alienspotter422]

The formal application of the term Artificial Intelligence is the epitome of gaslighting. As long as we allow what is actually no more than Artificial Information Processing to be called Artificial Intelligence it will be utilised as an instrument of power to control us and the direction of events. We actually facilitate it being utilised this way by accepting reality being manipulated by the use of language. Of course some people do this unwittingly, not realising they, and reality, are being manipulated. Those who do realise it should imo be very vocal about it in order to exert change. By the way, who is the Karen hosting this? There is no reference whatsoever to her in the description box. Why is that? I find it uncourteous.

[@19battlehill]

Science killed love.

[@hast3033]

No it hasn't, thats absurd.

[@anhumblemessengerofthelawo3858]

Love cannot _be_ killed.

[@RhoArtMagic]

In the myriad possible options of opinions, this is a facile, 2 dimensional approach. On one hand, science and spirituality both have radical foundationalists. Fundamentalism kills everything. Imho, The ultimate in possibility, joy, curiosity, awe of seeking life, creation, purpose, beingness itself is what a passionate scientist cares about. Otherwise how could a scientist not be in awe of the topic of their passion? I absolutely agree with you in fields of government funded science. Any government funded science surrounding the nature of attention capture, the creepy CIA will be involved.

[@Andrew-yw6kt]

Wake up, so called "religion" has done more to stifle love than science has.

[@TheCrossingBall]

So true