Woven vs Nonwoven Geotextile Fabric | Choosing the Correct Geotextile for Your Project

Geotextiles are a crucial part of hardscape projects to separate, reinforce, and allow for drainage, and filtration. Though not every type of fabric is suitable for every application in a hardscape project and there are several variables that need to be considered when deciding on the fabric to use.
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Woven geotextile fabric is made of polypropylene filaments connected to a network that provide more stabilization strength than the non-woven geotextile. This geotextile is going to provide separation, filtration, and reinforcement strength when installed.
Woven geotextile fabric will be used in heavier dynamic and static load projects such as driveways to add additional reinforcement to the base by spreading the load out over a greater area. Where the subsoil is soft and unstable or water is less likely to permeate through a subgrade, woven geotextile is likely what you will opt for as drainage into the subgrade is not as important. However, this does not mean that drainage is not important for that particular project. Drainage is always important, and since we are not getting the proper drainage that we would need when deciding to opt for a woven geotextile, we need to install a drainage system for that project using perforated or solid pipes and drains to collect that water and exfiltrate it out of the system. Otherwise you are creating a reservoir for that water to stand and cause issues over time.
Non woven geotextile fabric is made of polypropylene fibers that are randomly connected through a network. These fibers are small components of the network creating a felt-like feel to it. This geotextile is going to provide separation, filtration, and drainage when installed.
The main difference between woven geotextile vs non woven geotextile is the drainage and reinforcement property. Non woven geotextile is a water permeable landscape fabric. With drainage being the aspect in which non woven geotextile fabrics excel when compared to woven geotextile, this becomes a primary focus for areas of projects that require that drainage ability. This means projects that experience pedestrian traffic, low dynamic loads, low static loads, hard subgrades, and require the ability to drain freely, then non woven geotextile fabric is the best option.
This is key in projects that require the separation of material from cross-contamination while possessing the ability to allow water to drain through it such as a French drain. In this application, a perforated drainage pipe is surrounded by a clean stone and wrapped all the way around with a non woven geotextile filter fabric. The water from the surface can permeate through the non woven geotextile, through the clean stone, and into the drainage pipe. This ensures the filtration of water through the fabric without displacing any of the material around it. The same can be said in hardscape projects that require the same function.
Another hardscape application that is specific to non woven geotextile would be a concrete overlay. We know that the base of our concrete overlay is a hard material that does not require stabilization or reinforcement. What we require is for any water that enters the system to drain through and filter out of the system. This is why a non woven geotextile is always recommended in this application.
When installing a geotextile, the minimum overlap from one piece to another is 12" with this increasing as the softer the subgrade is. In addition to this, the pieces should be shingled away from a foundation meaning the pieces from the foundation should be placed under the next piece. This allows the water to travel from piece to piece away from the foundation without moving underneath a piece of fabric. As the geotextile is rolled out and cut, the pieces need to be in tension as the base material is being prepared on top of it. This means that all of the wrinkles need to be removed before dumping gravel on top and preparing your base. It is best to limit the amount of cutting of the fabric as possible. It is also important when installing a fabric for your project, that it will wrap up the sides of the project to further provide separation of the subgrade from the sides into the base material.

[@mtbiker61]

The clearest and best explanation I've read through all my searches.

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you!

[@spruce_goose5169]

One of the better explanations I've come across. I think a lot of so-called 'experts' are actually pretty confused by these product differences, but this is spot on.

[@iamahardscaper]

Really appreciate that!

[@JJ_eats_wings]

Everybody has different learning styles. This is perfect for me. Very few channels summarize knowledge and explain why. But you do. I like it.

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you so much for this comment!

[@DH-fo9dx]

So informative! I have been trying to determine which material to use in a1000ft gravel driveway over hard compacted clay, and I've been told by different contractors the benefit of both. I am big on technical specifics and appreciate the great detail and explanations you gave. Woven it is for me. Thank you for the assist.

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you! Appreciate the comment 👍

[@msemakweli133]

Clarified it for me as well. Woven it is, for my driveway. Thank you!

[@markpinther9296]

Fantastic explanation of the WHY to use fabric with the included image was really helpful. Nice work.

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you!

[@rickfearn3663]

Outstanding clarity. First class.

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you!

[@frankrodriguez8073]

Excellent explanations. I like the way you cover every single detail about both materials and the proper install. Looking forward to see more of your videos. Very instructional. Thanks a lot.

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you!

[@LuminairPrime]

TLDR: non-woven is for drains. It separates the soil types and extends the life of the gravel. Thicker fabric is for when the thinner stuff would rip during install. Lap the fabric over itself so it stays together. And for what it's worth, when I dug up an old drain, the fabric (and spikes) had shifted all over the place, so when I installed it back, I used a bead of polyurethane sealant (Quad Max) to fasten the fabric laps together.

[@iamahardscaper]

👍👍

[@javedsheikh4466]

You are a highly knowledgeable and detailed tradesman. I watch your videos alt. I learn many things from you. Because you have so much detailed information to share your slightly faster speech pattern is sometime S hard to focus on when I want to not miss any detail you share. I have to rewind many times to fathom everything you share. If you could slightly decrease your speech it would be Awesome. If you can’t no worries. I would still love to listen to your videos. Congratulations you are an intelligent individual

[@iamahardscaper]

I will definitely try to speak a little slower. You can also change the speed of the video to 0.75x or 0.5x. Glad the videos help!

[@G.I.JeffsWorkbench]

Very comprehensive. Thanks for clearly (though perhaps too quickly) distinguishing between the two types of i wish I would have found your channel before I watched all of those other - less satisfying - videos.

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you! Glad it helped 👍

[@EverettDiane]

Great explanation of proper usage for us amateurs. Very helpful!

[@iamahardscaper]

Appreciate that!

[@tspfull]

I am building a raised paver patio with a 3' high retaining wall and 40x10 permeable paver patio on top. I initially planned to use woven (SRW SS5) all throughout because i have a mix of sandy and clay soils and thought that would be best for stability. After excavation I saw that the base of the retaining wall had most of the clay and the soil higher was much more sandy. After that experience and watching your video I decided to use the woven under the wall to help stabilize the soil that has more clay content. I am already planning to use biaxial geogrid to stabilize patio area so I will use non woven behind the wall drainage aggregate and in the patio area since drainage is more important there. The geogrid will help to tie the patio and wall together.

[@iamahardscaper]

That sounds good 👍 hope the project goes smoothly for you

[@Reelphresh]

Thank you for your expertly explained video. You well informed me on the two types and I greatly appreciate it.

[@iamahardscaper]

Glad it helped!

[@frizellculley1238]

I have studying this problem for some time. This is dame help… thank you ☺️

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you for the comment! 👍

[@andrealaphilippe5926]

Here’s the thing, I can understand perfectly what you’re saying; the problem is that all the technical words could be replaced with easier to understand words ; after all, it’s KZbin not a technical white paper or manual for engineers. Like others, I have to keep rewinding , it’s just too much. Keep it simple.

[@iamahardscaper]

We cover the same topic in a lot of videos whenever we are installing a project. This video was meant to be the high level video to satisfy the professionals. But I definitely could have defined more terms throughout it for everyone. Appreciate the feedback!

[@carlw]

Yet again another very useful and informative video!!! Thanks. Mike's a hardscape monster 😀

[@iamahardscaper]

😂 Thanks Carl!

[@jmpersic]

Wow, this was a really good overview of these materials. Thanks!

[@iamahardscaper]

Glad it helps!

[@GRDDAN1]

Wow just learned something new. It’s kinda common sense but I appreciate to learn thank you.

[@iamahardscaper]

Glad you got something out of this! Thank you for watching and commenting 👍

[@GRDDAN1]

@@iamahardscaper I subcribed and add notification, wanna learn more sir. lol

[@jimhendrix7776]

My first vid watch!! Awesome information and wicked editing!! Gud job my friend

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you for that!

[@geofantex]

Very great video, this is what i like. And i found that the non-woven geotextile like what we supplied 3‘ x 100' roll.

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you!

[@mitchellkasdin1899]

So to clarify with having spoken to a manufacturer, the non-woven is geo textile has good flow through rates. I recall a 92% permeability property, but since the fabric is on the ground the rate of absorption into the soil is a determining factor. The ground will absorb at a given rate, although you have a permeable substrate. Therefore, pouring a drink through the material onto the ground is not how the material necessarily works. There are also different weights or thickness for the non woven geo textile, depending on the application. Soil types, slope or pitch would increase or decrease the flow-through of liquids, water, fruit juice, etc. I’ve also used fabric staples and punctured the woven geo textile throughout when doing xeriscape over large areas. The woven geo textile is much less money then non woven.

[@iamahardscaper]

All of this is true. This was just a demonstration to show the difference between the two. It would take a lot more to show the difference between the two considering multiple factors like varying soil types that will be beneath either of them and what the flow through rate would be then. Maybe one day… but for now we have this video and our in-depth article.

[@mitchellkasdin1899]

@@iamahardscaper true. Also with the woven you can put a cut mark or a hole and then cover it with some non woven geo textile. Also another trick if the area is sloped you can have the seam facing the pitch to collect water under the material in the gap. I use the woven for a weed barrier when laying down decorative rock so the hydraulics of the wet soil doesn’t burry the gravel or rock.

[@LardassTheGayHippo]

What would you suggest installing under a gravel parking pad? This parking pad would not be used daily. It will be more of a place to store some small trailers.

[@iamahardscaper]

Just depends if you are looking for stability or drainage. You could always install non-woven and then use biaxial geogrid for stabilization.

[@avengersendgamewatchaa1358]

Correct me if im wrong. In this video, your woven geotextile sample is not actually geotextile. It is weed mat fabric specifically used for agricultural. The correct 'geotextile' is for purposedly used for road construction made from pp/pet high strength multifilament yarn with or without mono yarn. Your fabric it is woven, but not typically can use for construction of drainage, embarkment, separation & filtration because of not long time duration & less tensile strength of fabric

[@iamahardscaper]

You are right, there are actually 3 different woven geotextiles. Multi, mono, and slit, at least that relate to the Hardscape industry. Ideally multi is our preferred choice, but for the purpose of this video we went with slit. It still provides the necessary tensile strength and separation required. A topic for another video later 👍

[@avengersendgamewatchaa1358]

@@iamahardscaper Great 👍 In this video, the opening size for woven fabric is smaller. That the reason it was not suitable for drainage/separation because the water cannot pass through. Like i said, it was suitable for agricultural purpose. Anyway, you made a good content 👍

[@iamahardscaper]

It’s still appropriate for separation. However, no woven is the most suitable for drainage. If drainage is necessary, then non-woven is the geotextile of choice.

[@avengersendgamewatchaa1358]

@@iamahardscaper Indeed. What we want to clear is that your woven that shown in the video is not typical for separation. Not any project will use this weed mat fabric for separation. Because what you are explaining geotextile function with wrong product.

[@marktele8061]

Woven seems to be the correct material to use for my pea gravel pedestrian traffic project. I used a woven material that has a felt-like sub-surface last time around. It held up well, but Bermuda grass eventually adhered to the felt and worked it's way thru the weave and is impossible to remove. Removing the material with the grass attached is almost as difficult, but that's what I did. The newer woven material does not seem to have this felt sub-surface, but I'm reluctant to use it. The non-woven material I just looked at is not felt-like at all - it's pressed together & thin but seems strong. My neighbor says B-grass grew roots under her non-woven material, but has not penetrated it ... yet. The woven material seams to fray if you cut it at an angle, which I will have to do - but I like the durability ... still unsure what to use.

[@iamahardscaper]

Wish I could be of more help with that. Unfortunately I do not do many pea gravel walkways but that can be a problem as any seeds can work their way down the pea gravel.

[@wkalpani]

​@@iamahardscaperi

[@Icant88]

Great and informative video for any DIY'er. What brand of Non woven geotextile have you found worked best for your patio install? What thickness would work most efficient and effectively?

[@iamahardscaper]

I am not as educated on the thickness of the nonwoven to be honest. I’d see what your local landscape supplier has in stock.

[@Icant88]

@@iamahardscaper I will follow your advice. Thank you.

[@rorycompton8138]

Are you burying the drain pipe directly into the base of a paver project? How much deeper are you burying it into the base?

[@iamahardscaper]

Yes, for open graded bases. we will dig slightly deeper creating almost like a swale to direct the water where we want it to go and then lay our pipe in there.

[@aleksgjelaj4636]

If I am doing an open graded base for a small 1.5 foot retaining wall that will have a brick paver patio behind it. There will only be pedestrian traffic. Would it be safe to use woven fabric under the base only? This is in a clay soil application

[@iamahardscaper]

yes, under the base only

[@mariachiaztec5557]

For permeable pavers is non-woven recommended? Or is it better to use non-woven with geogrid on top of the non-woven?

[@iamahardscaper]

I always like non-woven with biaxial geogrid on top.

[@mariachiaztec5557]

@@iamahardscaper thank you. Any specific type of biaxial grid for a patio?

[@iamahardscaper]

Nope, I would just source it from a local supplier and see what they have in stock.

[@mariachiaztec5557]

@@iamahardscaper ok thanks

[@johntraxler9547]

Generally speaking, what’s better for an underlayment below an open graded base patio with an impervious surface?

[@iamahardscaper]

Depends more so on the subgrade. Is drainage more important with the fabric, then go with nonwoven. Is reinforcement more important, then go with woven. Need drainage and reinforcement, use nonwoven with biaxial Geogrid immediately on top. That’s in general what you can look for.

[@RF-kz2sz]

Having erosion next to my house foundation when it rains , its on a downhill slope, should I put woven or non woven fabric? Should I fill then eroded areas with dirt then put the fabric followed by 3 in river rocks?

[@iamahardscaper]

It is tough to say without seeing the site. If you are not having water troubles in your basement from this issue, I may opt for the nonwoven. But if the erosion is really bad, you may want to go for the woven to redirect the water. You could fill in the eroded areas with a 3/4” angular crushed stone or larger crushed stone without fines as these will lock up better to prevent further erosion especially if it won’t be seen, then fabric, then your river rock. Again, it’s difficult to say the best way forward without seeing the site.

[@bh6984]

We have hard compacted but thin topsoil layer on top of rock here in Texas. I'm planning to cover side yard with washed granite gravel with a walkway of scpaed out 2'x4' limestone paver slabs. WIll compact 3/4" yellow limestone road base prior to adding the finish gravel layer. Should I be laying non-woven landscape fabric under the road base or between the road base and the washed granite gravel? The ground is quite hard and difficult to dig or level, therefore I was going to rely on a thick, compacted and leveled layer of road base to create a stable and flat subbase since I can't really excavate and level the raw ground effectively. Therefore, I wasn't sure if the landscape fabric should lie directly on the raw ground or on the leveled road base. Thanks!!

[@iamahardscaper]

If you are removing the topsoil and installing the road base on top of rock, I would just have geotextile separating the granite. If you still have topsoil, I would also add it to the base. hope that helps

[@user-mo7zv1ty4k]

I am doing a pea gravel or small river rock around the whole foundation of house . Do I need Woven or Non Woven? Great Video but still un sure🤔

[@iamahardscaper]

I would probably opt for a non-woven in that situation. You just need a separator, not something that reinforces.

[@ahrzhule]

What product would be your recommendation for an underlayment for a pond liner? I have some non-woven material I purchased to protect the pond liner from root intrusion but am worried it might not be strong enough. Your advise would be much appreciated.

[@iamahardscaper]

I use nonwoven geotextile for this. Not the cheap weed barrier stuff, but the same roll we use for our paver installs. Then we lay the pond liner on top

[@ahrzhule]

@@iamahardscaper Much Thanks! 😁

[@brucemoore4092]

I am planning a 15ft garden alongside my home. I plan to use pea gravel or 3/8" stone. Should I put a woven or non-woven fabric beneath, or no barrier at all? THX

[@iamahardscaper]

Is this for a wall or edging? If you’re using clean stone I would either way, but a little more lenient when it comes to just a garden edge.

[@Chris-ef2nr]

We just graded our property and have a really good quarter inch per foot or more slope to the yard, other parts of the yard in tighter areas will be installing French drains. The entire yard will be 3/4 in gravel ( rental property ) . I was thinking woven for most of the yard and under French drains, then a small amount of non woven on top of French drains to allow water to enter. Any advice Thanks !!!

[@iamahardscaper]

Without seeing the site and the subsoil, it sounds like what you'd want to do. As long as your slope for your sub grade is good and away from your foundation.

[@KellyEScott]

great video with practical application - really good. will both types be used as weed barrier?

[@iamahardscaper]

You can use a very light non woven geotextile for weed barrier

[@danielfinerty8086]

For a patio adjoining the side of a garage and a concrete driveway slab, it sound like nonwoven geo fabric would be best plus or without geo grid for additional support. But any thoughts on whether to place some woven geo fabric near the base of the garage and the slab to prevent erosion from seepage through the nonwoven and ensure water is pushed away from those two structures? Also thinking about woven at the outside edges to ensure that any water that runs off will not undercut the patio. Any thoughts appreciated.

[@iamahardscaper]

Sorry I can’t quite picture this. Both fabrics will separate material that you don’t want mixing. Woven will not be great for drainage so if you need drainage go with nonwoven. If you need added stability add in the box axial

[@StephanieHernandez-bg4tn]

I’m not sure what to do after watching the video. I had non woven geotextile in my backyard. The dirt was compacted and we put rocks on top of the non woven geotextile. Now that it’s been raining, we’ve noticed there’s been weeds growing through it. Any recommendation why that is? Should we have used the woven option?

[@iamahardscaper]

no, it wont stop weed growth from the top down, only the bottom up for the most part and depending on the weight of the fabric. You'll always get weed growth anywhere those seeds can get to.

[@scottkain7474]

So if I am putting essentially a french drain behind my 6x6 timber retaining wall, then I want to use the non-woven to maximize drainage to keep static pressure minimal and keep the wall from pushing out/over? Because I dont need reinforcement in that case?

[@iamahardscaper]

I don’t know engineering for timber retaining walls. But I would assume you would want that drain at the base of the wall much like in a segmental retaining wall installation because a French drain is more so meant for surface water.

[@michaelwas8549]

So if I'm trying to get water away from a house that has pitch going towards it instead of away, i would install woven on the bottom and non woven on the top under the landscape stone, with drainage pipe between. Correct?

[@iamahardscaper]

If your yard is sloped towards the house I would recommend a retaining wall to help flatten the yard. Then you could address any other water problems with a French drain as you described there and you wouldn’t need woven.

[@mikehoover3721]

I am trying to determine whether to use 5.3 oz woven or 8 oz non-woven geotextile on a 30' slope in front of my home that is about 100' wide, which I will be applying river stone on top of. At some point my plan is to put a retaining wall at the bottom of the slope where it levels out. Would you recommend 5.3 oz woven or 8 oz. non-woven geotextile? Thanks.

[@iamahardscaper]

Probably something I would contact the manufacturer or supplier about. Unfortunately knowing the weights of the geotextile is something I am not an expert on.

[@mikehoover3721]

@@iamahardscaper are you able to tell me if woven or non-woven would be more beneficial for the project I described?

[@MaDGriZz78]

installing a french drain in the near future here excavating my home down to the footer to install. basement water isssues, im thinking non woven is the only way to go with a little stone before i lay my pvc then lots of stone for backfill more non woven on top and a bit of soil to finish it, thoughts?

[@iamahardscaper]

yup nonwoven for drainage for sure. We wrap our French drains like a burrito and then put soil on top.

[@jakebehrens1709]

Do you suggest installing geogrid directly on top of the non woven fabric or put a layer of clean gravel between? Thanks

[@iamahardscaper]

I like to have a layer of clean gravel or put the geogrid halfway in the base

[@michaelpiecuch7313]

Where would you buy the non-woven geotextile double punched from? I am in Delaware. I heard the material you see on Amazon is a cheap quality and not the same. Is that true?

[@iamahardscaper]

search for a landscape supplier near you. they should definitely have something in stock that they sell.

[@funlearnunlimited4672]

I plan to build a garden on my terrace and plant grass. Now, to avoid leak i am planning to use acrylic tray of size 8x10 feet with 5-6 inch wall height. I am concerned that this would not let the water drain and will damage soil. So to fix the problem i am planning to use small stones averaging 10mm at the bottom of the tray then non woven geotextile fabric. On top of this fabric i shall put mix of vermi compost, normal soil and coco peat to plant grass. My concern is whether i need to put drain cell 20mm and put the 10mm stones inside it to provide support to fabric? Or will fabric be able to handle the distance of 20 mm between each cell wall? And would this be good for proper drainage of water? Really loved your video and it gave me hope that you may have answers to my questions , hence posting. Appreciate any guidance possible, have a great day 👍

[@iamahardscaper]

I like the idea of the drain cell with non woven on top of that. I can’t give much advice on this as I’ve never tried something like this.

[@funlearnunlimited4672]

@@iamahardscaper thank you for replying so fast. I appreciate it. You like it ! Well that's good enough for me 😁

[@ssj22vuofficial]

Which one is best for raised bed vegetable planters?

[@iamahardscaper]

Likely going to want non woven

[@johnoswald6192]

Thanks for the great explanation. Tons of into packed into a compact video! I just put down some 1.5" rock and compacted it for a camper pad, no fabric, over wet clay after a rain. Compacted with a plate compactor. Some of it in the wetter areas just mushed down into the mud. Big mistake. Can I put fabric over the existing rock and add more rock over it? Thanks.

[@iamahardscaper]

Without seeing it, I would say you could

[@johnoswald6192]

Can't hurt, and better than scraping up what's already compacted I guess. Thanks!

[@lovelyjubblyy2657]

Very helpful and well explained! Thank you!!!!

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you for the comment!

[@matthewforestieri6895]

Great content, if using loose base such as 57 gravel with no fines under a paver patio and you used woven fabric what would happen to all of the water? Would the polymeric sand keep the water from pooling underneath the patio?

[@iamahardscaper]

Yes, to an extent. Woven will still allow water through but it impedes the passage of water. If you have a sandy subsoil, it will flow through it and into your subsoil. If you have a clay soil, it’s recommended that you collect the water and move it out of the system

[@matthewforestieri6895]

Thanks big dog, we have clay everywhere in North Carolina

[@iamahardscaper]

Lots of clay here in Toronto too

[@anndinitto1936]

Hi I’d like to know how you can install a pea gravel patio I haven’t seen a professional do it I’d like to know if you have to use a geotextile fabric is it better if you use 3/4 “ aggragate fist then fabric then pea gravel and should you put some kind of edging and how far down should you dig for the patio I hope that you can find the time to answer my question I’m from New England area and was thinking of going this route for a patio not sure if it’s a good idea or too much trouble to maintain. Thank you so much

[@iamahardscaper]

Pea Gravel patios are not too popular in this area. I wouldn't think it would need more than just fabric and the depth you want to go with the pea gravel. Base is to ensure there is drainage and to prevent heaving. If your patio is gravel, you are not worried about that especially since it is just pea gravel that is easily moved whenever you step into it. I would think it would definitely be trouble to maintain if you have a lot of vegetation around as it will be home to weeds and insects over time.

[@RodJetton]

Where is the best place to order the biaxial geogrid and non-woven geotextile? Looks like Homedepot and Lowes do not carry it.

[@iamahardscaper]

Search for a landscape supplier near you. That is the best bet

[@tillmansr2002]

Great video. You mention concrete overlay a few times (ie 4:49 - 5:54). I don't see the concrete over anything. Isn't the concrete 'under' the pavers and under the geotextile? Or are you indicating the overlay means over the base?

[@iamahardscaper]

Yeah, concrete overlay refers to concrete being the base and the pavers are overlayed on top.

[@tillmansr2002]

Mike, are you available for consultation? If so, how does someone find and compensate for your services? I am in Florida sandy soil, but having a troubling time determining the method of base development (soil ->Base->fabric (type)-> compatibility with paver (brink/clay in this case). Advanced DIY'er

[@iamahardscaper]

send me an email with your questions I should be able to answer them [e-mail]

[@mahmoudzaefi2958]

hi. thanks. Do you think it is better to use woven geotextile under the foundation? (so that the mixture of cement and water in concrete does not pass through the woven geotextile)? thanks :)

[@iamahardscaper]

what is the foundation for?

[@mahmoudzaefi2958]

@@iamahardscaper house foundation

[@iamahardscaper]

the concrete mixture wont go through the nonwoven geotextile. you would probably want something just to separate, as the concrete would be the reinforcement. depends on the subsoil strength too.

[@Alvink2015]

Please help, I have a 24” area around my concrete patio that was sinking because it had 8 inches of play sand underneath it with no retaining wall around it , I removed the entire area and all of the sand and built concrete forms 4 inches deep and 3 1/half inches wide all the way around, I used 3/4” angular cut lime stone over the subgrade, which was a clay dirt mixture and compacted it with a plate compactor over 100 times and now that I’m at the point of screeding the 1” of 1/4”clean angular cut limestone before setting the pavers back I realized I forgot to lay down the woven geotextile fabric underneath the 3/4” limestone base 🤦🏻 What do you recommend I do at this point ? What’s so frustrating is that I originally had the fabric layed down over the subgrade but I took it out to to compact some stone into the dirt and clay mixture so that it would be more water permeable and not like a solid sheet that water won’t let water in but I forgot to put the fabric back down when I put the rest of the stone in. Any advice will help at this point, thank you.

[@iamahardscaper]

I have never met a concrete contractor that uses geotextile to be honest. But the only way to get it in there would be to start again

[@Alvink2015]

@@iamahardscaper The area I’m talking about where the geotextile fabric wasn’t laid has pavers going on it not concrete, I built concrete forms around the outer perimeter of where that pavers will be placed so they don’t fall back. Basically, my question is there anything to do it extend the life of the pavers and keep them from sinking now that that geotextile fabric is not underneath the base

[@kevinmilici2104]

When using a non-woven, does it matter which side is facing "down" (towards the soil)?

[@iamahardscaper]

I don’t think there are different sides, but if there are check with the manufacturer

[@mway5050]

I am going to use the non woven fabric with the poly propylene paver base for my patio. Which weight of fabric do I get? Thank you.

[@mway5050]

It is clay soil beneath.

[@iamahardscaper]

I’d check with what your landscape supplier has in stock. Most only have one or two weight of fabric

[@serenitywellnesscenter2472]

Great video! Can you please go over the different Non-woven Geotextile weights? I am having a concrete shed pad installed in a very wet flat back yard. ( 10X 16) Using the non woven under the clean stone but don't know what weight is best. ( working on extending sump pump discharge past yard so not as wet but still a consideration. )

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you for your comment! Great suggestion, it will eventually come. Typically you would want an 8 oz to 12 oz nonwoven geotextile.

[@elbuggo]

@@iamahardscaper 12 oz./yd² = 407 g/m² 8 oz/yd² = 271 g/m²

[@zanepaxton7452]

Under a storage shed you want to stop moisture from coming up through the concrete slab and aren’t concerned with drainage; I.e. it’s a vapor barrier like a house with a slab on grade condition. The classic is visqueen plastic but there are more durable and newer vapor bassists that stand up to the rough conditions of a construction site. Also, pour the concrete over the vapor barrier over the base gravel. PERMINATOR® underslab vapor barrier is a new generation of polyolefin-based resin/chemical technology. PERMINATOR provides the vapor barrier industry with a highly effective, economical choice for helping to reduce the penetration of moisture and water vapor through the slab into the structure, thereby helping to reduce fungus, mildew, and mold growth. PERMINATOR also helps reduce radon gas from entering the structure. New resin technology allows dramatically greater puncture resistance while maintaining one of the lowest perm ratings in the market.

[@elbuggo]

@@zanepaxton7452 You may be answering a question that hasn't been asked. If you throw 10" of gravel over 10" of mud, you get 20" of mud. I think this is what he will prevent, and not the moisture to stop moisture from coming up through the concrete slab. Radon is an ridiculously hyped problem. I don't think they can name 1 person who has felt a problem with that. The problem is allegedly demonstrated in dubious computer models only.

[@zanepaxton7452]

@@elbuggo you bring up an interesting point when the soil is muddy or if the water table is at the surface. The main purpose of gravel under a building slab is as a capillary break to help keep the bulk of water away from the slab. I live near the Oregon coast in California and it rains 75” a year so the soil is very saturated 7 months of the year so I’m facing the same issue. I’m about to expand a workshop. Under a building slab the base rock also increases the structural capacity of the soil which is desirable. So… from top to bottom this seems reasonable: A reinforced concrete slab over A quality vapor barrier over Base rock/angular gravel over Geotextile fabric over Compacted native soil In that design we don’t want moisture to come up into the structure so the vapor barrier is valid. Then we don’t want to trap moisture in the base rock/angular gravel. So providing a geotextile under the angular crushed rock that drains well is important so the moisture can drain out and not be trapped as well as not mix with any mud below. Probably a woven fabric for structural strength similar to a driveway. Having said all that, best practice is to have positive drainage away from a structure all around at least 5’. In my more extreme climate I’m planning on installing a French drain around my garage to drain away the ground water to keep the slab dry. When it rains here the water table is at the ground level and higher (ponding). I’m also planning on a higher perimeter concrete curb because there’s a lot of rain splash that typically rots away the plywood siding that is popular because it’s cheap.

[@felixyusupov7299]

I assume you would use non-woven instead of a woven geotextile fabric for a dry creek drainage application. Please confirm.

[@iamahardscaper]

If you want the water to drain through and you are only looking for separation.

[@dmiroy]

Thanks for this!

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you for watching!

[@jobensandhu5624]

Hi Im Building Gravel Parking Pads, Please Assist Woven Or Non Woven Could Be Best For That Application? Reply In Urgent Is Much Appreciate It

[@iamahardscaper]

Sorry, I do not know the site conditions enough from this to make a suggestion. Subsoil, slope, etc.

[@msemakweli133]

Excellent explanation! What's your take on this situation: A private internal dirt track on an agricultural acreage. The track is approximately 250 metres in length, and 2.5m wide. On a gentle slope. Very lightly used. Area gets fairly wet. I want to install drain ditches on the sides of the track. Use two strips of woven (3ft wide each) where the tires make contact with the road, and overlay the whole road with gravel, with a gentle hump in the middle. Essentially a cost-saving measure. Your thoughts? Thanks

[@iamahardscaper]

I think it’d be best to reach out to a technical representative of the manufacturer. But my first thoughts are that the geotextile needs to extend the full width.

[@msemakweli133]

@@iamahardscaper Thanks for your thoughts.

[@dckyeung]

Hi Mike, should I use non woven geo textile for laying the decorative stone on my yard? Also, I will be spraying Easihold Resin Bind.

[@iamahardscaper]

I would go non woven most likely because you are not looking for stabilization just separation.

[@dckyeung]

@@iamahardscaper Thank you, Mike!

[@dckyeung]

@@iamahardscaper Hi Mike, is there a particular brand of geotextile that you would recommend.

[@iamahardscaper]

No, Alliance has good products. But whatever is available at a landscape specialized supplier should be good.

[@dckyeung]

@@iamahardscaper Thank you, Mike!

[@darrylpires]

I have a question. I have a certain section of my backyard in Orlando, FL which is just filled with dirt. I have weed growing there all throughout the year. My wife has planted some avacado, guava and other trees and there are a lot of smaller flowering plants as well. The problem is the weeds that grow between them. I want to cover it with some kind of fabric that does not let the weeds pass through for a long long time as much as possible, with the possibility of cutting an X through the fabric and planting anything my wife wants to plant in the future. What kind of thickest fabric do you suggest I use which doesn't need to be replaced for a long time as much as possible ? (woven, or non woven, Ozs, any company name Or the link that you can send me will help a lot). I will just clean the weeds and lay the fabric on top which will allow up to walk on it. Frequent heavy showers and occasional hurricanes also need to be considered, so the water should not get collected.

[@iamahardscaper]

Ah I’m sorry, I’m not an expert in the planting side. I know some companies use woven geotextile and add mulch on top to clean it up and plant by cutting through it. But the debate against that is the fabric will hold a significant amount of heat and hurt the plants. I would talk to your local nursery

[@darrylpires]

@@iamahardscaper Thanks a lot Mike. I will talk to the nursery.

[@billyd1436]

I want to lay down fabric under a gravel driveway area to prevent weed growth from the subsoil. It seems that woven is best...water is not an issue in either direction (groundwater coming up, or surface water drainage). Will the woven prevent weed penetration?

[@iamahardscaper]

It is important to note that it is not necessarily for weed growth. Weed growth comes from top down and not from the bottom up. Woven for added reinforcement and separation. Non woven for drainage and separation.

[@billyd1436]

@@iamahardscaper Yes it is true that NEW weed seeds will come from above and need attention, but the roots will be shallow and in the undesirable growing medium of crushed stone. But in the original soil that will be under the new crushed stone driveway there will be many many noxious weed seeds from the eras. Most of those will still want to sprout, and some will make it through the crushed stone (they will have deep roots and hard to eradicate) and some will not make it. The question is... will the ones that will make it through the crushed stone be more deterred by the woven or the unwoven fabric. Thanks a lot for your lightning quick reply. I appreciate it. Great channel.

[@iamahardscaper]

Interesting. Either will be fine, but woven has higher tensile strength.

[@RobertGammie]

Great video and explanation. I’m still a little confused about when to use woven. I have 12 feet of clay that I have sloped away from house that will dump into a French drain with non woven. On this flat area should I use woven (with gravel) to maybe shed surface water and snow to the French drain? I’m thinking that the woven will help keep my grade of clay from leveling off through frost cycles.

[@iamahardscaper]

I do like to use woven over clay soils, especially in your application

[@RobertGammie]

@@iamahardscaper thanks for the quick reply. I’m basically building a drainage mote around the back and sides of my house sloping to the front. I have a pretty steep downhill slope to the front street so I have some deep trenching to where emitters go. I do have crawl space water issues as the previous owner’s French drain didn’t have any fall to it and was plugged. In my French drain I was thinking that maybe 1 1/2 crushed gravel may be better than 3/4. It’ll be a 4ft wide dry scape not for walking on.

[@ATappin]

I am doing a gravel courtyard area. I have the dirt all compacted, but it is a super wet area in the winter time with the rain (pacific northwest) which I've mitigated by adding french drains and a sump pit in the middle. We are wanting to do a pea gravel top layer. Should I put the geotextile followed by a base layer of gravel and then the top few inches be pea gravel? Or should I reinforce the dirt layer more by compacting some crushed asphalt or concrete first then do the fabric? Or is the Geogrid recommended?

[@iamahardscaper]

I don’t think that requires that much prep to be honest. That’s not a popular thing here, but I’d assume digging down a bit maybe compacting, adding geotextile and then your pea gravel right on top. It’s not like you’re going to see any movement on the surface since it is just gravel.

[@jesseflory9910]

When using paver pads, what thickness in ounces is best for the nonwoven geotextile?

[@iamahardscaper]

4oz and up depending on the application

[@rorycompton8138]

That may be one of the most expensive demonstrations ever using Bai lol

[@iamahardscaper]

😂

[@fadidabban]

Im a building materials seller. And Geotextie has been one of the toughest products to sell due to its highly technical function. Hopefully one day I will be able to understand it more.

[@iamahardscaper]

I can definitely see why it would be. When I worked for a supplier it was a slow mover as well

[@rorycompton8138]

What weight nonwoven do you like to use?

[@iamahardscaper]

I believe it is 8oz but I would check what your supplier stocks

[@AmriNazeer]

very informative video

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you !

[@lovetheprophets]

Do you recommend using the staples with woven geo textiles?

[@iamahardscaper]

You can to ensure you have no creases or wrinkles. I don’t bother

[@isawrichvarga]

what would you suggest for a stepping stones and rock in a back yard in Los Angeles ? Not much rain so not as concerned about drainage - the biggest concern would be separation so no native weeds or grasses grow through the rock

[@iamahardscaper]

I would go non woven you’re not too worried about reinforcement with a stepping stone walkway.

[@nickohler8153]

Another great video! I like how specific you got on these topics. But, I’m still stuck on which to choose. I have a paver patio going over a large area of fill sand. Not near a house. Can I use woven for this purpose? (With 8” 3/4 stone base). We have a couple hoop houses that use the woven textile as ground cover. We irrigate them and it gets soaked for a half hour. There isn’t any standing water it goes through pretty well actually.

[@iamahardscaper]

It pretty much comes down to what you need more. Reinforcement or drainage. Woven is better for reinforcement, it still drains but is better for reinforcement. Nonwoven is better for drainage, it still adds some reinforcement but is better for drainage.

[@nickohler8153]

@@iamahardscaper the patio will be covered by a pavilion (with gutters) soon so I think I’m going to go woven. Thanks again

[@hopewithcte4571]

What do you recommend using for a big area of river rock

[@iamahardscaper]

Likely nonwoven because you may want the drainage

[@FuturesTrader]

Thanks!

[@iamahardscaper]

👍👍

[@organicskating]

The only quibble I have is you used your good Bai instead of tapwater :) Otherwise great video!

[@iamahardscaper]

😂👍 thank you!

[@mohiniahuja3923]

Nice explanatory video. How long do geotextile last? I wonder if rats would try to come from the sub-grade material and chew away the geotextile?

[@iamahardscaper]

They are made of polypropylene so 20 years or so. I don’t think I’ve ever come across that problem with rodents yet, but I wouldn’t say it’s out of the question ever

[@pkehoe88]

Great video! Question: I have about a 30'x6' walkway on the side of my house where we've had some leaking into the foundation. I'm planning to put a french drain in at the fence line away from the house sloping to the backyard. Question is to slope the 5-6 feet away from the foundation and into the french drain, should I use woven geotextile to help push that water away from the house into the drain? It's just river rock and soil right now so the water tends to just sink in and find it's way to the foundation so I'm thinking using the less permeable fabric tied up tight to my foundation and slope down would be the best move but let me know if that doesn't make sense. Thanks very much!!

[@iamahardscaper]

Yeah that would be a good use of the woven geotextile. Just do not use it around the French Drain.

[@pkehoe88]

@@iamahardscaper Thanks so much!

[@paulfromcda8440]

Use MiraDRAIN against the foundation. Check out youtube videos on it...there are plenty.

[@Philadelphia19147]

Great content

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you!

[@thejavellanas]

thanks for the great content. may I know the specs of your base material?

[@iamahardscaper]

We use a 3/4” crushed stone for our base with a 1” bedding layer of 1/4” crushed stone. Base depth depends on the project. Minimum of 6-8” for patios and retaining walls. Minimum 12” for driveways.

[@domilion2008]

@@iamahardscaper can the 1/4 crushed stone aka 1/4 minus (down), be used instead of sand?

[@iamahardscaper]

No, there is no use for 1/4" minus or stone dust or limestone screenings.

[@martywillichuk6930]

Wow! Great to hear you're a fellow Canadian, eh? I'm' installing a 3 x 24' interlocking sidewalk in my backyard. After I make a level of Geotextile and the base material, is this where I install the landscape fabric?

[@iamahardscaper]

👍👍 Excavate, compact subsoil, install geotextile, then your base material.

[@martywillichuk6930]

@@iamahardscaper Mike: So, you're saying that I place the fabric on top of the base material?

[@iamahardscaper]

No, base material on top of the geotextile. Geotextile separates the base material from the subsoil.

[@martywillichuk6930]

@@iamahardscaper Sorry Mike for the confusion: Geotextile layer, then base material, and.... does a layer of weed fabric barrier go on top?

[@martywillichuk6930]

Oh! I didn't realize that the Geotextile is also a weed control... my apologies!

[@kenpachizaraki9155]

what is the best fabric for raised garden beds?

[@iamahardscaper]

If you’re talking about building a raised garden bed using retaining wall blocks, you should likely opt for nonwoven with proper drainage in behind your wall.

[@kenpachizaraki9155]

@@iamahardscaper thank you for that

[@tigerbear3038]

Why don't a lot of hardware stores sell geotextile fabric?

[@iamahardscaper]

Big box stores just don’t cater to hardscapers.

[@bigal25938]

too expensive.

[@rvwjboi23]

How does the non woven fabric hold over time?

[@iamahardscaper]

It holds up really well. I’ve done several repair jobs and seen it intact well

[@rvwjboi23]

@@iamahardscaper thanks, Does the fabric clogs over time also? I’m thinking about burrito wrapping my pipe but just would like to be sure. Thank you.

[@iamahardscaper]

Some claim it does, some claim it doesn't. I'm sure over time it does get clogged, but it still allows for some passage of water. If you are building a French Drain, you should definitely wrap your pipe in it with some 3/4" clear stone surrounding your pipe.

[@b3arwithm3]

Which applications are suitable for woven fabric?

[@iamahardscaper]

Softer soils that remain saturated for a majority of the year with larger loads or need the reinforcement

[@b3arwithm3]

@@iamahardscaper thank you. I see many in videos it is being used it as weed barrier. Isn't it gonna create a little pond when it rains? I am concerned about it after watching you pouring the bottle.

[@iamahardscaper]

@@b3arwithm3 It will still allow a little bit of water through, but mostly redirect the water that lands on top of it. I have seen arguments for and against using it as a weed barrier in softscaping with mulch placed on top of it.

[@b3arwithm3]

@@iamahardscaper i plan to remove my lawn and put flowers and shrubs. As ground cover, I would use ginger rocks. But not sure if putting down the fabric would help or not. Cutting many holes for the plants, I wonder if weed soul go thru the same holes.

[@iamahardscaper]

@@b3arwithm3 Talk with a nursery around you about your plan. They would be able to point you in the right direction with this.

[@atbm_rakitan2]

Nice 👍👍👍

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you!

[@mrslkungpowchikn1206]

Why does he say “remove wrinkles in the fabric Pre gravel”, yet the visual shows guys dumping gravel on fabric with wrinkles and not pulled taught? That’s confusing. What would u consider gravel ready? If you showed a visual of when it IS ready to go, and why, and when it is NOT ready, and why, this would be super helpful to get a better idea.

[@iamahardscaper]

I’d have to see the video, but if it isn’t pulled taught then it is after the gravel pins it down.

[@mrslkungpowchikn1206]

@@iamahardscaper ok 👍🏼 thank you 🥰

[@drumcrazy72]

Legend.

[@iamahardscaper]

👍

[@bigal25938]

Woven geotextile is for road beds.

[@iamahardscaper]

👍

[@Philadelphia19147]

Hate KZbin. Your videos have great content but you have no views. What a shame!

[@iamahardscaper]

We will get there. Just getting started 👍

[@Sl_gamerHD]

👍

[@iamahardscaper]

👍

[@doona7848]

👍🏽

[@iamahardscaper]

👍👍

[@mrslkungpowchikn1206]

Kind of talked through all of this a bit too fast, in the voice over parts especially.

[@iamahardscaper]

Try the x0.75 speed that may help 👍

[@user-ht9ub1gj7g]

Enjoyed this, but please talk a tad slower. Thanks!

[@iamahardscaper]

Sounds good 👍

[@therrienmichael08]

I thought seperation looked funny. Separation.

[@iamahardscaper]

😂 Canadian vs American spelling I guess 😉

[@lksincret]

You cover very important info but your reading speed doesn't give us time to absorb. I've re-watched several times, needing go back just as many.

[@iamahardscaper]

Sorry it’s so fast! Try slowing down the video speed

[@spruce_goose5169]

Everyone's different. Good speed for me.

[@lksincret]

@@spruce_goose5169 Better if good speed for everyone

[@spruce_goose5169]

@@lksincret Sure, but what I'm saying is slower wouldn't be a good speed for me, and I'd probably stop watching. :) I'm not trying to razzle anyone here and I understand your perspective, just offering mine (which happens to differ from yours). Just the way it is and we all find ways to cope. Ultimately the delivery speed is up to the presenter and their style.

[@gopalbarsiliya4344]

Playing in Speed 0.75 may helpful

[@jonathansimmonds5784]

Omg, could someone find a translator to help me understand this guy?? It's like someone reading a story at speed without full stops and commas! Slow down man, this is awful to listen to. I've had to give up at 5 mins as I've got lost as to which of the two types of material he's talking about! Oh, and what accent is that, the way he says 'out'? Sounds like eowt.... I hope the other vids are better.

[@iamahardscaper]

Guess you’ll find eowt

[@bxx7666]

What would you use for 20ft gravel fire pit?

[@iamahardscaper]

Gravel patio? I would likely go nonwoven for that because you want the water to drain through you just need separation.