Identifying a bad Rocker Arm Assembly on the Dodge 3.5L

Some info and details on the rocker arm assemblies on Dodge's 3.5L engine. More specifically, how to identify a set as being "bad" and in need of replacement.

[@whiteshedrecordings]

My son’s car had a spun connecting rod bearing in #2 cylinder. For others searching the knock in your motor. Check for piston play (There are vids showing how to do this) before spending money on rocker arms. Especially if you have the 3.5l. Especially if it was from 2006. Chrysler had issues more widespread than they admit.

[@user-dk5st8zl8s]

Thank you for this video!! Its exactly whats wrong with Magnum right now. Getting them replaced asap.

[@joeroyer1786]

Both of mine did the exact same thing in the far left rockers

[@craiggerlach5548]

I pulled my covers off after hearing the death rattle, and the left bank was eating into both center posts, the right bank looked visibly correct and was not replaced, the assembly, direct from Mopar has side to side movement of all rockers. On side that was replaced, #2 was worst of them, and there was a #2 misfire present, after swapping and hearing the right bank rattle at idle, this #2 misfire came back. Cam did not look rounded off, tried swapping coils n plugs from 2 to 4, but misfire still occurs on 2, tossed in some injector cleaner that is supposed to get rid of carbon deposits if those exhaust were not opening correctly, being jammed open, etc.. so far, only 40 miles of driving, still tossing code after engine comes to idle, at cruise motor feels smooth. Anyone with a misfire condition after someone ran this rattle for few thousand miles? Assuming what previous owner did, I pulled it apart as soon as I bought it.. if price hadn't doubled on direct from Mopar assemblies both would have been done, glad not too bad of job to do them, not sure what to do if this #2 misfire does not clear up.. no codes for injectors, did not pull or test..

[@craigpennington1251]

I have this engine and it's a very good dependable one but these and other critical parts must be built by machined tool steel so this crap won't happen at every 50,000 miles. I've replaced one set and getting ready to replace the second set. The person that I got this car from did before I purchased it so this will be the 3rd set in 150,000 miles. I don't drive as much as I used to cause I'm retired now but still. Those also should be sleeved and needle bearinged so that the rocker itself isn't rubbing on the hold down point block.

[@AA-fg1on]

So is there not suppose to be any side to side play at all? I just ordered both rocker arm assembly’s and there’s play in both on each side and uneven play , some tight some loose. I’m assuming it’s bad :/ really struggling to even find where to buy the OEM so I bought it off A-Premium

[@NukeNukemson]

It’s been a while since I did that work, but I don’t think there should be much play. Any amount of play allows the rocker body to eat up the aluminum next to it, making more play, and so on.

[@elementaldamage1546]

Thanks bud

[@mchammer3432]

My dodge journey 3.5 sxt has that similar clicking/knocking noise, from what i just read in the comment below, how can I truly identify if its simply bad lifters vs those rocker arms?? I am the furthest thing from a mechanic, I can do most basic stuff, like changing out the oil/ tire stuff, and i just replaced the heater core on it and saved myself a pretty penny. But for something like what your video just showed, i definitely do not have the tools to accomplish a rocker arm replacement, is there anything I can do short of taking it to a mechanic, so I can determine which issue it actually is? Other than that noise she runs fine, I do have a similar issue with the acceleration especially going uphills, its like shes tied to an anchor after second or third gear, thought it was an intake or fuel pump issue, or even dirty fuel injectors, but i had those cleaned out, new spark plugs put in, and still shes slow on take off or when accelerating after about 35 mph, you step on the gas and it just doesnt respond like it should. Could a bad rocker or lifter be part of that issue?

[@NukeNukemson]

The rocker arm assembly is making the clacking noise, and one way to tell if it is has gotten bad enough to need replacement is to pull the valve cover and visually inspect the rocker assembly for deterioration like what I showed in the video. You don't have to pull the assembly off the engine, just look for the loose rockers like what I showed, and look for the chewed up posts next to the rockers. Now, it is possible for them to not to be visibly damaged like what I show and still need replacement, but in that case, they will be making an extremely loud clacking noise. I mean it will be so loud that there is no doubt no mechanical device should sound like that without being replaced soon. Given that, it sounds like yours are probably okay...for now. Just make sure to run the proper oil grade (10W-30 unless overnight temps get to freezing, then run 5W-30) and just listen for any significant change in the sound level of the clacking. If all of a sudden, one morning at startup it starts making a helluva racket, then it's time for replacement. As for the lack of power, that is not likely going to be attributed to a bad rocker assembly. Once they get bad enough to affect how the motor runs, it will usually manifest itself as a miss and a backfire, along with several DTCs and the Check Engine Light. It is hard to tell what your issue is with the loss of power, if there really is one, but I would recommend pulling the intake plenum off and making sure it is nice and gunk-free on the inside. Also, while it is off, look down into each port and check out the tops of the intake valves. Do they have any noticeable deposits on them? Cleaning those off should help some with the acceleration issue.

[@mchammer3432]

@@NukeNukemson Thank you very much for taking the time to reply, i will take your advice and look at the rocker assembly this weekend.

[@phigo4kins]

What Causes these Side to Side Play? I Thought its as a result of the Dowel Pins Shearing off, But, I've Removed all My dowel pins and they weren't Broken. So what else is causing/creating these Side to side Play on these Rockers? And seems like there's no way to Repair/Re-use Them Rockers either...?? 😳

[@bretbean13]

cam lobe pushing it to the side, once the wear pattern changes from running to the side, itll happen again

[@elifire4147]

Where do I find QUALITY replacements that won't do this again?

[@qxweiii]

Online

[@austinf7236]

Question mine is just starting to go bad so is it better to replace the whole assembly or is it possible to just replace the bad arms?

[@Welder-zo7ju]

You can replace by one arm but I think you need to order arms by dealer.

[@austinf7236]

@@Welder-zo7ju alright thanks

[@Welder-zo7ju]

@@austinf7236 I removed couple weeks ago broken arms and replaced everything (but there was just small issue) do you wanna see or buy?

[@whiteshedrecordings]

My sons 300 just started making a horrible knocking sound from the passenger side of the engine. It had a little tick at startup from time to time, but now it is loud! I pulled the valve covers on both sides and found similar play in the rocker arm assemblies. What is really strange is the drivers side head is clean and well oiled, but the passenger side is dark, and full of crud. Any idea what could be happening? Thanks for posting these vids!

[@NukeNukemson]

How long has your son owned the car? My first thought is a previous owner had the driver side rocker assembly replaced to address this problem at a prior date. Now it has happened again, but to both sides.

[@whiteshedrecordings]

@@NukeNukemson We have owned it less than a year. I’m going to buy the assembly for both sides to rule it out. Thanks again.

[@NukeNukemson]

@@whiteshedrecordings How many miles on the odometer? It would be ideal if you had a complete service history for the car so you could know what has been done in the past, how well it has been maintained, etc., but I am guessing you do not (very few do). There exists a way to view the car’s *reported* service history, and I advise you to try it and see what is there. It does not cost anything, and you could get lucky and have a car that was regularly serviced at auto shops who report to CarFax. That’s the one thing everything hinges on for this method of searching - if the car was serviced by a shop that does not report to CarFax, or it was serviced by a DIY mechanic, the service will not appear in this list of its services. Again, it’s free to check, so there is no good reason not to try it IMHO. If you can find that car’s previous services to fix/replace failed parts, like a rocker assembly, then you know it’s already happened to that engine at least once, and now again twice all at once. Plan on it continuing to occur in that scenario… Anyway, go download an app named Car Care (made by CarFax) and sign up for an account to use it. All you need is an email address, no payment or phone numbers required. Once signed in, add that 300 to your garage using its VIN. Then open its Service tab up and see what’s listed in the list of events in its service history. P.S. I have continued to use the app to track the various services I DIY on my own cars and keep track of the preventative maintenances, etc. It’s surprisingly handy for that, especially considering it is free to install and use.

[@whiteshedrecordings]

@@NukeNukemson It has 170000 km or 106000 miles. I have a stack of oil change and service receipts from the previous owner, who bought the car when it was 3 years old coming off a lease. I just ordered the rocker arm assemblies and new seals and gaskets. If this doesn’t do the trick, I’ll drop the oil pan and check to see if it a spun connecting rod bearing. Thanks for the tip on the car care app. I’ll check that out. Thanks again!

[@NukeNukemson]

@@whiteshedrecordings Those 3.5L engines can turn into real problems over time if not well maintained. Unfortunately even a well maintained one will also eat its rocker assemblies if given enough time and miles. It’s better to have a well maintained one than a neglected one, but a lack of neglect only means less frequent rocker assembly failures, not ‘no rocker assembly failures’ like it should. If you are in a northern climate that regularly sees ambient air temps below 0C/32F, the recommended 10w-30 engine oil weight may be a little thick at startup to circulate into those rockers as fast as it should. Going with a 5w-30 or 0w-30 oil might be a better choice in such a place. No matter what oil is run, do NOT run extended oil changes in those 3.5Ls. Keep the oil changed and don’t push it beyond 5K miles unless synthetic is being used. Honestly, in the 3.5L, I would still change a synthetic oil at 5K miles too. One cannot be too careful with a Dodge 3.5L v6 and its oil change intervals.

[@xtrememechanictuner148]

Did it sound like a rod knock? Been trying to figure mine out...

[@NukeNukemson]

No, it is more of a clatter noise. A rod knocking is deeper and less frequent. This will sound like a typewriter almost.

[@joeroyer1786]

Replaced both mine…. Sounds like a brand new car now

[@sergiosanchez4967]

Where did you purchase from?

[@djayyates4491]

Is it ok to have very minimal side to side play ?

[@NukeNukemson]

It’s okay if you are talking about immediate dangers. There is no immediate danger of failure with minimal play. The engine will still start and run like it has been doing. But that play will only increase over time until it turns into a problem and needs replacement. How long that takes depends. Keep the oil changed; don’t run extended OCIs. If it begins clacking on startup on cold mornings, that’s when you need to start formulating a plan for addressing it - either replacing parts or replacing car will be in the near future at that point.

[@33Bonez33]

How do you get the exhaust rocker off

[@NukeNukemson]

ArtsUtopia - you have to remove the whole rocker assembly, it’s not possible to remove individual rockers. Removing the assembly is not too bad, you just have to remove the intake plenum and the valve cover to be able to get to the rocker assembly bolts. Installing the rocker assembly requires torquing the bolts to a specific torque value and tightening them in a specific order. I don’t have that stuff memorized, but it’s in the Chiltons manual that is available for the 2006-2010 LXs. I can get that info from mine and post it up, but honestly you would be better off getting yourself a copy of that manual if you’re going to be doing this sort of work on your car. There are other things to know about the whole process which I’m sure I’m forgetting but would be listed in the manual.

[@MrCougar214]

@@NukeNukemson that's not true, you CAN replace individual rockers. With that said, it's a HUGE pain in the ass to disassemble the rocker assemblies. It requires a ton more work so just go ahead and replace the entire assembly. It costs more but the time you save is totally worth it!

[@dirrenbb]

Bump again.. maybe we don't need to buy a new one and part of the new one arrived defective.. How do you replace individual rockers?

[@CoffeeVSInvesting]

Why is one side brown? Mine look the same.

[@NukeNukemson]

Mopar And More - IIRC the one with varnish on it (the brown one) was a used set I purchased from a wrecking yard and installed in place of my defective one on that side. Unfortunately for me, the used one had the bad tick too, so I turned around and replaced it with a new one. I completely disassembled that original one I replaced with brown one in an effort to understand how they work, but i broke some pieces and didn’t even try to reassemble. So when I did that video, I used the salvage yard one that ended up being bad for illustration purposes.

[@CoffeeVSInvesting]

@@NukeNukemson Another plot twist, I've had my car since new with 16 miles on it and each side looks the same as yours.

[@NukeNukemson]

Mopar And More - oh if you are concerned about that varnish look, don’t be. Well, don’t be overly concerned with it. That will happen over time if engine oil is left in longer than it should have been. The crap it collects over time will begin to form varnish on the internal parts if the oil is left in long enough. It’s not necessarily bad, but it is a sign that the engine’s OCIs are probably too long. And that varnish can be reversed too if it’s not too bad and you give it enough time (read: lots of oil changes at the proper or even a shortened interval).

[@CoffeeVSInvesting]

@@NukeNukemson I think I'm just confused as to only one side had this happen

[@NukeNukemson]

Mopar And More - on yours? That is odd if only one set of rockers were varnished but both were originally installed in engine. It could be a sign of poor oil circulation or an engine coolant circulation issue with the engine.

[@Conky011]

what type of oil? and how often changed?

[@NukeNukemson]

Conky Conker - car was 5 years old with 40K miles when I acquired it, and oil type and how often changed was unknown for that period. Once I got it, I used the recommended 10w-30 in several diff brands and ran OCIs of around 4K miles usually.

[@Conky011]

I have 2010 300 with 3.5 and you can hardly tell its running from the outside, its at 160k right now mainly hyway use though

[@NukeNukemson]

Conky Conker - yours has fared better than most of the 3.5L engines in Dodge/Chrysler’s LX of that period. I don’t know if was poor design or poor quality of the part, but those rocker arm assemblies are prone to chewing themselves up over time, and they left it up to the car owners to deal with unfortunately.

[@Conky011]

lol I don't push it up to 7000 is why

[@0714will]

Wouldn't a little Lucas help it?

[@NukeNukemson]

It is a mechanical issue that occurs regardless of what kind of oil, or oil additives, are being used. Although, a case could be made that running an oil that is too thick could exacerbate the issue if present, or help get it started if not yet occurred, and that’s pretty much what the Lucas oil additive does from what I can tell - thicken the oil it’s added to. So I personally would not use the Lucas oil additive in one of these engines, as the best case scenario of using it is only that it does not hurt. Worst case is it makes things worse or starts the issue happening when it wasn’t previously noted on the engine.

[@petersmith7140]

with the proliferation of part listings for this, what one do you choose? Are they all china crap or are some better? Thanks

[@NukeNukemson]

When I was searching around to find replacements for mine, they all seemed to be Mopar parts, just sold by different places for varying amounts. If there are aftermarket versions available now, I cannot speak to how trustworthy their quality is, but I would personally stick to the Mopar versions if I had to do this all over again on my personal vehicle.

[@petersmith7140]

@@NukeNukemson Thats how I was thinking, OEM. Thanks

[@HydraulicHydra9]

@@NukeNukemson Do you know where I could find an OEM one that doesn’t cost me my first born? I can only find no name Chinese ones or overpriced Mopar ones. I asked the parts guy at my local dealership and he said they were discontinued. Thanks.

[@NukeNukemson]

@@HydraulicHydra9 I did a search on eBay when I got mine and found a set at a dealership somewhere up north. They were about $500 for the pair back then, maybe more now. You can probably find some used ones for cheaper, but you run the risk of them being bad right off the bat going that route.

[@HydraulicHydra9]

@@NukeNukemson ok I found a set on rock auto that may work. I’ll keep looking thanks!

[@JasonStAmand-xi6oy]

Why can't you just shim it with a plastic ring or something?

[@NukeNukemson]

Jason St. Amand The plastic ring would not last long before being eaten up itself. But beyond that, the camshafts’ lobes will be scored and worn down in some cases, and there is no fix for that except a new(er) camshaft

[@celestemartir8536]

Nuke sir i have the same problem with my 2010 dodge charger am abouth to do.this same job my self but i have a question do you lube the rocker arm rack or just install it

[@unclemarksdiyauto]

April Martir, get some engine assembly lube and lube all moving surfaces. (Brand of lube doesn’t really matter)

[@NukeNukemson]

April Martir - I soaked the replacement in engine oil before installation. Read that in the manual I believe. But definitely wouldn’t install dry.

[@tinytim7539]

@@NukeNukemson I'm up getting my car back from the shop . I am putting the intake manifold back on and noticed that the flapper in the manifold are stuck closed and covered in carbon

[@NukeNukemson]

Tiny Tim those are the intake runner valves that get actuated by the Short Runner Valve solenoid on the front of the intake. They are supposed to get opened up at 5000 RPM, and if they ever malfunction there will be a DTC P1004 code set. That’s a whole other issue unrelated to the compression thing you are diagnosing though.

[@tinytim7539]

Would this cause my 3.5 to have low compression

[@NukeNukemson]

Tiny Tim low compression isn’t normally one of the things associated with this problem, but anything’s possible. The worn camshaft lobes that come with this problem could lead to the valves not fully opening actually, and that means cylinders polluted with exhaust gases that couldn’t be pushed out during exhaust stroke and then only half-filled to capacity on top of that since valve may not open enough to breathe in VE air charge. Loss of power? Sure thing. Loss of compression? Possibly, but probably not.

[@tinytim7539]

@@NukeNukemson okay thank you mechanic said I had low compression in 2 cylinder . Run great until I changed the plugs and coils

[@tinytim7539]

Would it help if I used a combustion chamber cleaner ?

[@NukeNukemson]

Tiny Tim I can’t see a new plug and coil causing a low compression condition. If I were to guess, the underlying cause had been there for a while and slowly getting worse. It was just a coincidence that it got bad enough to affect the engine operation at the same time you did the plug and coil install.

[@NukeNukemson]

Tiny Tim it won’t hurt, but it can’t really help a low compression condition. The cylinder is not sealing very well now, which means something mechanical is wrong - worn valve seats, stuck piston ring, worn cylinder walls, etc. The gas additive has little effect on those things.

[@johnringoo756]

Marvel mystery oil in the interim..

[@NukeNukemson]

Jeff Gee - No MMO for me! I tried that stuff back in 2002 and then BAM, 3 months later my grandmother passed away. I’ve only got one left (grandmother), and I’m not willing to gamble her life on something as iffy as MMO!