If I'm honest, modes held me back

[@462rob]

Okay. So "it's all chords." But HOW do we know...decide... learn....WHICH notes within the chords AND passing notes to use? And WHEN? Clearly YOU can do it. How do WE do it?

[@JustinOstrander]

Here's a great place to start: www.brettpapa.com/tools-for-the-creative-guitarist-justin-ostrander

[@JustinOstrander]

Let me address two things: 1) I don’t think I’ve ever had a natural musical ability. It comes down to one thing only: hours. Not just any hours. FOCUSED hours of practice. Sweat. Frustration. Almost walking away a thousand times but not actually doing so. Tiny, incremental breakthroughs that add up over the years. No one’s fingers go to the right notes automatically. All I’m saying in this video is that focusing on chord tones instead of thinking what scale or mode I’m in got me where I wanted to go. And where I wanted to go, as I said in the video, is playing melodies. Saying something with my playing that is compelling to others in the same way that I find my favorite players compelling. More on this to come… 2) I’m not saying that I don’t use ANY framework at all. I’m just saying that when I think of scales or modes, that tends to be what comes out. When I think of chord tones, something more melodic comes out. At this point, I’m really not trying to think of anything…just listening and trying to get out on the guitar the melodies I hear in my head. Pat Metheny has said that he thinks in triads and uses arpeggios to get around the fretboard. I think this is a lot closer to what I’m doing. More on this to come as well…

[@stevec9972]

I think they call that sub conscious competence. Do all the theory study to a level your not thinking of it when playing. I'm not there yet

[@DavidHendersonMusicChannel]

Ok, the song is a country song with 3 chords C, F, G. What do you play on the solo and explain how that isn't math or a mode? Major scale = Ionian Mode = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 , 6, 7. Looks like math and modes to me? What is the Nashville Numbering system? Math? That progression is a I IV V. Based on what? I = C = 1,3,5 IV = F = 1,3,5 V = G = 1,3,5 C major Pentatonic = 1, 2, ,3 ,5, 6 1,3,5 of what? Chord tones of what? Degrees of what? I, IV, V of what? Wouldn't that be of a scale which is also a mode? My point being music is based on math and modes whether you are thinking about or not. ;-)

[@JustinOstrander]

@@DavidHendersonMusicChannelAll I’m saying is, I’m focusing more on the chord tones you listed out and not so much on the scale formulas, etc. You might think that way, and that’s fine. But I find that I play more compelling, melodic stuff when I *don’t* think that way.

[@DavidHendersonMusicChannel]

@@JustinOstrander What I am saying is the triads you are focusing on are based on modes/scales you are not focused on. And that all that harmony that you are not focused on is based on math. But it is all still there whether you happen to think about it or not. Like nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc... when we speak. BTW, I am able to think about it in way more than one way which I am sure you are too. It all works! That's the beauty of music....thanks!!

[@DominicHudson79]

I understand both points being made but it is a big stretch to say you don’t want to hear math in music when modern country music is so full of cliche based entirely on the number of any given chord. Of course everybody wants to free their mind and play from the heart but you guys are under pressure, banging out songs on the clock and employ a number system and the common phrases/cliche’s/devices associated with it to get the job done.

[@TNNLZ]

It’s all about the chords… This is the approach I want to take - Thanks for this 👍

[@jasonwilliams6042]

I’m so glad that you said this! I think Lenny Kravitz once said: I’d rather hear someone play one A note over and over again with passion than to hear someone play scales all over the place. That really resonated with me as a guitar player growing up.

[@lou.yorke.x]

Joe Strummer said something to the effect that he would rather listen to a novice struggle to play at the edge of their ability, and pull it off, then listen to a virtuoso.

[@danpetersonmusic]

I wonder if Mr Kravitz would listen to someone play modes with passion. That person would be Carlos Santana, who regularly used modal ideas in his playing. I could keep going with a list hundreds of names long but Santana is KNOWN for his passion. The point is you can know your instrument AND play with passion since those things don’t cancel each other out.

[@johnnychacon9978]

I think the best soloing advice I got from a KZbin teacher was : forget modes and learn phrases that are inspired from the music your trying to solo to. He was a old jazz guitarist and said he listen’s to music and finds a song within a song that inspires him. I do that and really does help.

[@jogo2000]

My guitar teacher showed me the mixolydian and dorian modes and studying and listening to how those modes sound like has really opened up my harmonic palette when I improvise. I think modes can be a great teaching vehicle if you don't look at them too mechanically.

[@michaeldematteis3409]

Yes there awesome.i just look at them as extensions of the major scale.always look at everything from the major scale.makes it much easier for me.its all about the chord progression.once I figured out if you start with a d chord,it doesn’t mean it’s in the key of d always.big lightbulb moment

[@erikberg8352]

Jake at Signals Music Studio is a very technical thinker (and a great teacher!) but explained modes as feelings rather than specific entities. This really helped me understand how to use 7th chords, substitute chords, borrowed chords, etc. There isn't a specific formula for anything, the notes should advance the feeling. It's great to hear @justinostrander bring a similar conclusion from a very different journey. And the hat tip to Jimmy Page's emoting rather than shredding is huge.

[@rolandfrye]

Modes are going for parallel and relative thinking. I bet you think completely differently about your approach to every song you play.

[@Kevinschart]

Modes simply allow you to experiment with major scale, mangle it, and "name" it. All the little licks he played sure sounded like some kind of mode to me. You can either reinvent the wheel or skip the line and learn modes.

[@kevinmusso2397]

I am so thankful that you are on YT. Things are happening here that are unlike other channels. The best thing you can share with us is YOU. We are getting priceless info from your life experiences, and they are a wellspring. THANK YOU.

[@MarkScott-u5l]

I think it’s more than what you teach Justin, and that of course is inspiring itself. It’s your delivery. Your presentation-demeanor and attitude is so peaceful and calming. People need that. Thx

[@jodyinalaska1]

Looking forward to and patiently awaiting your guitar courses! Great video! Happy Thanksgiving!

[@memyselfandi3202]

Everything Justin mentioned about shapes and modes rings true for me. We can lean them but if we don't know how to put them together it is useless. I'd love to learn more!

[@circadevices]

This is so invaluable. Thank you, Justin. So very appreciated.

[@lavalizard1]

Breath of fresh air - enlightening and inspiring.

[@Grant_Ferstat]

I jumped on this when I saw the title because I was really interested to hear your take on it Justin. When I started playing lead guitar I went to a teacher who immediately got me into scales and modes. I found though, when I started playing in original bands, playing vocal/lyric based music I couldn't really apply it. It was almost like I had to unlearn what I'd learned...or that way of thinking. These days I just generally try to create a part in my head paying a lot of attention to respect the vocal melody because, as I said I'm playing vocally driven music. I guess most of us are really!

[@donbishop6994]

I'm not a huge fan of sales and modes. My first instructor worded it in a way that sat with me. If you can hear it in your head, you can play it with your hands. That seems to be the way to go for me, I have a decent ear, so it works rather well.

[@edbernardmusic3599]

Only if you have a certain amount of technique and knowledge.@@donbishop6994

[@beaco70]

You wonderfully put into words my whole philosophy. Thanks!

[@japanjay]

Nailed it Justin. It was Derek Trucks who really opened my ears to what honest playing sounds like, and it sounds nothing like straight up scales and modes. Targeting chord tones and knowing the song inside and out is what’s important to finding your voice.

[@edbernardmusic3599]

How do you know what a chord tone is? Why learn that but not modes?

[@japanjay]

@@edbernardmusic3599 As Justin said, it depends on what you’re trying to accomplish with the instrument. If you’re wanting to be more expressive and melodic, knowing how to target chord tones is essential. If you’re motivated by technical skill and fast playing, then sure, learning all the modes in all positions will help you to achieve that. You choose where to focus your time to get the results you’re after.

[@edbernardmusic3599]

Modes aren't positions, they're notes. You use them all the time in slow playing and melodies.@@japanjay

[@edbernardmusic3599]

Arpeggios are all chord tones. You're not required to play them fast.@@japanjay

[@japanjay]

@@edbernardmusic3599 Yep, there aren’t any rules on how you should approach making music, it’s all just notes in the end. How technical you want to get is up to the individual. The point was it’s sometimes better to lead with the heart instead of the head.

[@olearywu]

Compelling and illuminating. As DC Berman put it, "All my favorite singers couldn't sing." So true. Go K State, too. 😊

[@mikemorris2159]

You are a great speaker/communicator. Not as easy as it looks. Not to mention an inspiring player. Love the video. Happy holidays!

[@JustinOstrander]

Thanks a ton!

[@danrourke]

Scales and modes are like roadmaps, they only take you where someone has already been

[@danpetersonmusic]

That comment ALMOST got it right. They ARE like roadmaps…they tell you where you CAN go but not where you HAVE to go. BTW literally every guitarist (and other musicians) including JO are playing modes whether they think that way or not. Playing a major sound and flatting the seventh IS mixolydian. A minor sound with the major sixth IS Dorian. Thinking modally is one way to arrive at that sound but there are others.

[@william91786]

Really enjoying the channel! I would be interested in more content like this if you are willing. Basically, how you would learn guitar now if you had to start over in order to optimize your time. Lessons related to this would be very cool!

[@pontifexvonhummer9459]

I’ve watched it seems a million mode videos but never grasped the concept until your simple explanation. Now that I know what they are, I can continue to ignore them. Thanks, J!!

[@TylerWilhelm-tj8tw]

I must be missing something…. I play all the same styles of music as Justin and use modes constantly. And think of it as such. - dropping a mixolydian lick in when a b7 chord comes is 🤌🏻 - Playing minor over major to get that blues growl at the peak of a solo is 🤌🏻 - swapping between Lydian and mixolydian in a ‘fire on the mountain’ 4-5 chord progression is 🤌🏻 - dropping that natural 6 of a Dorian scale when doing a bluesy solo 🤌🏻 I see how it doesn’t work for all, but it works for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@ebeep]

Obviously only speaking for myself, but an understanding of modes helps me navigate other people's compositions when thrown in to a situation. The chords of the song create the mood/vibe and an understanding of modes, not just as a scale but as an emphasis or perspective from one of the 7 chords of a given major scale, helps me know where I am and what chords are immediately available to me in a given moment/position. I am still responding to the melodic lines my brain is creating on the spot and doing my best to materialize them immediately. I'm not playing patterns, modal understanding allows me to find those notes in my head on the fretboard on the spot/in the moment. Modes are seen as fragments, but they are of course are all just the one scale they're based in. CAGED and modes are the same information, the same 7 intervals. We all connect with concepts in our own way. Again, the chords tell us the modality, it's like a compass or a "You are here" spot on a map in a place you've never been before.

[@kevinbatchelor9566]

Man, your approach and honesty are so refreshing. Thanks for the insight.

[@fatcatsound]

Myself and a buddy were taking a look at Carol Kaye talking about her earlier career. She said back in the day, they weren't thinking of scales and basing everything off of them. They were thinking of chord tones. I thought that was well and good for a pop musician but then we heard her playing with Joe Pass and well, never mind. She obviously knows what she's talking about. Wow!

[@JustinOstrander]

Yeah, great point. Pat Metheny is a big chord tone stickler as well.

[@ClarenceHW]

Have you ever seen Carol Kaye play guitar? She's a great bebop soloist. Also saw her and Joe Pass, she asked Joe to play bass and she played his ES-175.

[@marcusaurealius6129]

Great video! I've heard jazz players talk about this topic, but its nice to see it applied in such a clear way. Definitely worth a subscribe!

[@nrmcclung]

My high school son is getting good and eyeballing school jazz band for next year. I was trying to share THIS EXACT IDEA with him, but I couldn’t articulate it this well. Your “chords through the solo” section is EVERYTHING! It mirrors the best advice on musicianship I ever received. I just sent him this video. I’m going to make him watch it. Twice. 🤘🏽💪👍

[@JustinOstrander]

Thanks a ton!

[@samwaters1146]

Excellent!!! Your manner of explaining the concepts you are discussing are great! Your approach is so incredibly accurate to real life and what I refer to as “real guitar” playing. I don’t mean to dismiss those that know the scales, the modes, and have spent years on technique. There is certainly something to be said for that and I certainly admire those such as Steve Via (who is a personal hero)and Tim Henson, their technique and proficiency across the fretboard is absolutely incredible. But being able to improvise and weave a melody or a lead in and around the chords of the song are in my opinion an entirely different animal and you have done an excellent job of explaining that and how that works

[@jumpskirt]

Absolutely golden advice. I've been playing for decades, stuck in patterns. I am just NOW getting the flick on chord tones. Damn!

[@lockhartdesign]

My guitar teachers would write out the modes and hand them to me but never would explain how to actually make music with them. Great video I agree completely.

[@georgepace7011]

It never ceases to fascinate me how we (the guitar nerd universe inhabitants) on the one hand idolize players like Page, Knopfler, Gilmore, Hendrix, etc whose philosophy and approach aligns with yours, yet on the other hand are seduced by the allure of pure (non-musical) technical proficiency. Your course will stand out in a very positive way. Looking forward.

[@sferguson1130]

You’re insight and wisdom has been a revelation, for me and my 25+ year journey on guitar 🙏🙏

[@parkersband]

Justin, this was the most insightful and helpful advice I have ever received. Thank so much you for taking the time to share your perspective. This is really going to help my playing and make me a better guitar player. Cheers from Sydney Australia.

[@audioglenngineer]

I’m the same way, Justin - I want to feel like I’m hearing a human voice coming through the instrument: phrases, pushes and pulls against the chords, and those big, obvious turns between chords that aren’t root notes, and little inflections. Seeing you here sure reminds me of our old jams in my parent’s basement! One of my favorite memories from the 90’s. I can still hear that little blues riff pattern you used to start us off with 1-8-b7-5. Sure a fun way to cut your teeth with friends. So fun to see where you’ve gone!

[@JustinOstrander]

Those were good times and very formative for me!

[@fiddlefolk]

I learned the biggest portion of my playing from being in cover bands.... Copying other guitar players ....Tones, techniques , fx usage, etc.....The interesting thing I found is that I would copy them note for note and some where along the way, I had interjected my own subtle thing to it. "Stealing" from other players is a great way to develop your own style.

[@paulbtaylorpt]

Thank you for this, Justin. I’ve been playing for a long time and only recently began focusing on playing the changes, knitting together rhythm and lead parts. Because I tend to overthink things, I also went down the rabbit hole of scales, keys, modes etc, and was frustrated to find that I always seemed to sound uninspired and frankly, unmusical. Focusing on chord tones while soloing has started a whole new journey, but here’s the thing - even the simplest of targeted, intentional notes played with feeling sounds better than the prior box I was in. The examples you played, Justin, solidified it for me. I could hear every chord change in your lead lines, which drew me in to a musical story. Thanks for this - a real gift.

[@michaeleaster1815]

Wow, I feel seen and wish I saw this 30 years ago... (I also have two math degrees!) The way I describe it: both an aviation engineer and an eagle understand the principles of flight, but in different ways. To me, Jimmy Page, EVH, The Beatles, and other greats are eagles when it comes to theory: they know it on an abstract, intuitive level. They couldn't explain sh!t at a whiteboard, but they sure can execute.

[@19501960]

Always felt that, creativity not maths. Like working in a DAW, you come up with a creative idea, then spend ages, messing with levels and plugins, hey the idea is gone.

[@DjembeJimbo]

Those are probably the worst examples of musicians who can’t explain music theory ❤

[@adeptgopnik]

they definitely knew theory. I dont think hes saying you shouldnt learn theory. I think hes just saying you dont need it to write parts. Its great for explaining parts though.@@DjembeJimbo

[@zenlandzipline]

@@DjembeJimboWes

[@AndiPicker]

@@DjembeJimbo Petrucci, Vai, Satriani 🙂

[@chrisjelley6899]

Outstanding. Been soo flailing around with modes/scales; then when I say f it, find something cool. THANK YOU!!

[@InsolentMusicalPeasant]

This video was heaven-sent for me. I've been guilty of just memorizing patterns and such, and I've had no idea how to break out of it all. Will definitely keep an eye open for your courses.

[@iamthereforeimustbe]

Once again bowled over. Plain speaking with a clear message, backed up with great examples. Looking forward to the guitar courses.

[@MrBowlinbrian63]

Thank you Justin. I agree 100% and wish I would’ve had a teacher like you when I was younger. I wasted a lot of time.

[@frankstephenson1746]

First off, this is a great video. Great playing, great human advice. Every time I’ve tried to go beyond the major scale it doesn’t feel or sound right. The guy who showed me music theory (before internet) quickly showed me the major scale, then the 1,3,5, to make the triads and said, “that’s all you really need to know”

[@kmacmckee2931]

Always enjoy your point of view, playing and tips. The diplomacy you use is also masterful. Well done!

[@portsideguitar1981]

This was great advice and rad playing. Thanks Justin!

[@scottruffner7744]

That's so true! Some of my favorite players aren't technical at all, in a way!!! They play beautiful melodic melodies! Mike Campbell, Keith Richards, David Gilmour, Eric Clapton, and so many more. It comes from your heart and soul. When I'm playing live or in the studio, I try to just get out of the way and let the magic happen. That works the best for me. Thank you so much for everything you do on your channel. I really love it here!!!

[@FrankWilliam-fc9sw]

In the late seventies I somehow convinced a young Mark O'Connor into giving me guitar lessons. He was 16 and already had several albums under his belt. Man was that humbling lol. He had taken lessons when he was younger from my previous guitar teacher Al Turray, a jazz guy. Anyway at the end of the first lesson I asked him if there were any scales I should be practicing. Mark said and I quote "scales are for beginners, practice playing music". Probably my best lesson from him involved the rhythm part for sweet Georgia brown. Mark grabbed my right hand when I was struggling to play it and said I can see you're trying to count it. You'll never get it that way, just listen to me play it again and feel it. So I did and damned if I didn't start just grooving and playing the hell outta it. Just had to stop thinking.

[@CornholeNetwork]

So great you are doing instruction. You have very quickly become my favorite guitar player since you launched your channel and I have always wondered- how on earth do you come up with those note choices and have such unreal timing to be so musical. All I can say is THANK YOU!

[@flashbak01]

Creativity doesn't come from technical prowess. It comes from feeling and inspiration and being a conduit for the music. Those who don't possess it, dissect it!

[@jleber]

100% agree! What a great way to practice and find the notes that connect the most with your own ears on a particular chord. Thanks!

[@acbenitez3614]

Straight up sound counsel, wish I saw this vid 30 years ago.

[@MichaelSmith-gd1ig]

This channel is rad. So glad I found it.

[@TomCPlus1]

If I'm being honest -- I had to cleanse my palate of this subject. I went back in time, January 27 2023 to the JO video "How to play 'Til You Can't' and jammed with the track. Just about 1,000 subscribers back then. Then I went to the video on October 25, 2023 where you played parts to "Right Time" and played along with that. Freaking awesome song and band. Loved playing with the track. Someone noted 37,000 subscribers then. Quite a year for the JO channel. 😎🎸

[@Michael_Butler]

Well said. I can't wait to learn more. Please keep me videos about this topic coming. And Happy Thanksgiving!

[@TexasJackdaw]

I totally relate. I spent years in college learning theory, scales and modes - which were necessary in the jazz program at North Texas University. But I literally feel that it took me years to kind of “forget” it. I feel that that knowledge is necessary as it subliminally provides context within a chord sequence. But as I grew older - to me, it’s all about the song. When playing a solo I try to imagine performing a sax solo. Something memorable. Something that “sings”. Neal Schon of Journey is a brilliant mix of melody and shred. Serve the song first. Engage the listener - then if there is room, show some flash. I dunno. I DO know I loved this video and all your content. Cheers and thanks! 🙏

[@ViaMichaelRocks]

I also went to North Texas and even though my whole day was consumed with music, modes were about as useful as a slide ruler. Lou Marini once told me the secret to great and endless solos were in modes. They obviously served him well.

[@JustinOstrander]

@@ViaMichaelRocksDoes anyone else cringe at the idea of endless solos? 😂

[@BedroomStudioGuy223]

Brilliant! Love this, rather hear someone play from the heart emotively than shred modes and scales!

[@edbernardmusic3599]

Yet they're still using modes and scales.

[@JustinOstrander]

Not necessarily. If you view music through that lens, then sure, you’re always going to come up with a framework to describe it. But for me, that does not help me to play things that I find melodically interesting. Chord tones > scales for me. You may say, “but those are ultimately the same thing!” Sure, but where your perspective lies will shape how you play. I am just simply more creative the less I put everything into a scale/mode framework. Your mileage may vary.

[@edbernardmusic3599]

I agree. I hesitated making my comments here because it's so nuanced.My worst playing occurs when I'm trying to theorize my way through music. Other times I have a great time combining minor blues, mixolydian and altered scale because I've muscled it in so much it's part of my shake bag. Every time I demonstrate that combination to students I always say "Well, that example sucked because i'm thinking about it too much"@@JustinOstrander

[@1man1guitarletsgo]

Very good! Chord tones are where it's at. Modal playing has its place, but getting hung up on any one thing holds people back.

[@bluebirdamplification3026]

Absolutely agree with your way here Justin. Love your tone and playing mate👍🙂

[@LorriSanga]

Please continue with this in a series of videos. Well done.

[@AndiPicker]

Hey Justin, more great content - I went down this exact route, I can hear myself in old recordings where I'm like a guy about to attempt to jump over a big gap - I'm getting ready, nervous, I'm gonna go, next time round I'll do it, and - MODE!

[@guitarwithjim2389]

Great Playing as usual and I think you've made some excellent points! I know that this 'chord approach" for solos makes my students break out of their ruts and play more melodically and musically. Love this!

[@TimsGuitarWorldwithTimFeskorn]

Justin, Much thanks to you for covering all the things that are dear to me RE: Guitar. Could you cover triads and triad pairs on a video in the future. I've hit a plateau in my playing and its put the brakes on my practice and overall enthusiasm for playing. My KZbin video production is at an all time low. I want to confidently provide great video's but I think I need to get past this glitch in my progress as a player. Honestly I think i'm an OK player but I need to get past this.

[@ababkin]

Justin, really hoping to buy your solo courses soon. Ready to put hours of practice, but really want to make sure I practice the right thing (vs. bad habits). Hoping you will send me down the right path to musical improvisation. Love your style btw.

[@TimsGuitarWorldwithTimFeskorn]

Triads and Triad pairs have been helpful to me so far. Although It's been frustrating too. Great content Justin.

[@imsuddenlyhome4806]

Thanks Justin, to hear this from a session player, it gives so many of us (me) hope and a real sanity-check from all we see/watch out here in KZbin land. Yes, I'm still so pentatonic, but my "moments" are when I just go a deep as I can into the song itself. Thank You!!!

[@JLutz-ic7fq]

Hi Justin, you pointed out a few things that bring me closer to music again... thank you!

[@JustinOstrander]

Great to hear!

[@danpetersonmusic]

The title of this video should be “if I’m honest, modes helped me”. Here’s the plot hole: knowing what triads and chord tones are is VERY difficult without knowing a diatonic scale (AKA a mode). Learning any amount of music theory is going to be near impossible without knowing a diatonic scale (AKA a mode). Even the Nashville Number System is fully based on knowing a diatonic scale (AKA a mode) and Guthrie and Justin use that every single day to make a living. I have been playing professionally for 40 years (US Army Band & USMC Band) and count Grammy winners as my former students and I can promise you without reservation that learning the modes on your guitar will help you. It will help your technique and train your ear. I can also tell you learning modes is one step of the process and that you do get past it to the next thing…unless of course you let someone on the internet convince you it isn’t worth it…in that case you will always be on the other side of that obstacle while the rest of us move on.

[@JustinOstrander]

This video can be distilled down to: chords, not scales. “But chords come from scales; they’re the same thing!” If that helps you, fine. For me, it’s so much more about harmony. I’m far from the first to think this. Pat Metheny is a great example.

[@MsFire4hire]

Incredibly well explained. I have also gone that route in terms of scales and patterns. Nowadays I mostly focus on chord tones and pentatonics.

[@calwells5612]

Justin, that's a great idea for a mini class. I internalized modes many years ago, and they still serve a purpose. However, I would have been much better off learning early on to play around chord tones. I'm a naturally melodic player by nature, but I tend to stick to key centers rather than really hearing individual chords go by and playing accordingly. I'm experienced enough that my ears take me to good choices note-wise anyway, but I'd unlock another level of creativity and possibilities if I really learned to internalize chord tones rather than scale tones (even though they're really the same thing, just a different way of hearing things and that makes a big difference). The muscle memory thing is real, and it's hard to break out of established patterns once you've put in thousands of hours doing things a particular way.

[@SergioAureo]

Your channel, together with Uncle Larry's are my favorites right now. A huge lesson here.

[@TheOdizeo]

i've waited 20 years to hear this, Modes spoiled it for me 20 something years ago... thanks for uploading this Justin... I'm really happy the algorithm let me to your channel. Now, you're going to come up with a course?

[@vadlasletta]

Haha! You were really not selling that modes thing! The way you explained it is exactly how I understood and was taught modes. It was not useful. All my solos sounded like an exercise. I have to say that I love your channel, and your insights. In my post under I describe how I got to understand the concept after working my head through it. I play by ear myself, and most of the time I the timeI try to outline the chords when improvising. I remember when first time I sort of ‘got it’. I was practicing a song in Aminor, but my guitar teacher had given me charts of how to play a c major scale… it took a few days, but when I saw that the same notes could give different feelings, it helped. A mixolydian feeling, or a dorian is different than a aolian or major /ionian feel. In the guitar video modes no more mystery Frank gambale showed that feeling by playing and repeating the two major triads that were separated by a whole tone in each mode. Then improvising over the top. Since the two major triads only appear once in each mode seperated by a whole tone only, it helps the brain to get the ‘feeling’ of each mode. Anyways this is just a few things that came into my mind after watching your video. I absolutely love the videos coming from the Nashville guys these days! Keep them coming! From the west coast of Norway, Rolf Martin Haldorsen

[@moebloggs7219]

Modes are flavors! Io = vanilla, Myxo = jazzy, Dori = bluesy, Aol = bluesy-jazzy, Phryg = spanish.... on and on..... circle of 4ths and beyond. I appreciate your take on it all!

[@lukelarrea7605]

Best and most practically helpful explanation on this topic I have seen to date

[@paulbillingham6769]

Finally, an explanation of Modes that doesn't cause my brain to spin out, and not only that I can immediately see how I can use it in my improvisations. This along with mixing minor and major scales is enough to jam to my heart's content. Modulations though are still a mystery

[@kisschicken]

This video has helped me immensely. I stopped trying to think about which mode to play and instead just focused on using my ear. You said the G, Bb, Eb chord progression doesn't fit neatly into a key, but fits into the Bb key so you can play Bb major all over it and just target the "modes" when the chords change, which I think is the point of modes and even what you're doing in this video. So even if you don't think about modes, you're still using them. I don't know, I think there's value in knowing the theory behind the modes but then just playing where your ear takes you, which will still be modes.

[@TomCPlus1]

When you say "fits into the Bb key", how do you define "fits" . . . because the diatonic chord would be G minor rather than the G major that JO played. As you said, we are better off using our ears to navigate the solo over whatever chord progression is thrown at us.

[@marcohermans3207]

When I started lessons 30 years ago after a while my teacher started to learn me the modes. He mapped them out on several sheets of paper with all the boxes and such. It was natural to him because he was a schooled teacher and a session guitar player here in holland. I started to learn all the shapes but I couldn't find a musical context for it. It began to frustrate me more and more that I didn't get it. I quit lessons and foundanother teacher and he learned me to improvise using the notes in the chord structures and appergios. That opened up a whole new way of playing to me. Immediately my playing became more melodic in a way that I could express my emotions more naturally. Modes are fine but for me it didn't work.

[@Mark_Thompson_Author]

Justin... just listening to you play is an unbelievable pleasure... Thank you from York, England... @MarkTwrites

[@JustinOstrander]

Thanks so much for the kind words. Cheers!

[@danthegeetarman]

@justinostrander I’m so excited for this couse! Literally can’t wait. This is literally my main problem. 20+ years later just barely learned the true importance of triads/chords

[@waterknot1]

Modes are not just patterns. They are tonalities. Each mode has a different flavor. Focusing on the sound is more important than the pattern.

[@cooghoublaga7555]

First time i've watched this guy and he's way more impressive to me than any shredder, shredders blow me away with their technique, but i can't listen for long, i'd listen to this guy all night.

[@jeffrosen2010]

my man!! you just put into words what ive been struggling to communicate for my entire guitar playing career haha. THANK YOU! My first guitar teacher was a technical shredder and he was amazing, but he really stressed the modes and scale shapes and I've never been able to figure out why I can't seem to get the sounds I want out of my playing. I've heard about playing over chords but I always thought that meant doing the musical math as you put it... this video may have changed my life! haha you rock - ps - I love your playing man! big fan, i'd love to get you on some tunes soon!

[@r0bophonic]

Man it took me so long to understand this disconnect. I gave up on lessons and instructional material early on because it wasn’t getting me closer to what I wanted to do: play the melodies I heard in my head (which I now understand were built from chord tones). So I just learned by ear. The concepts you are teaching would have actually helped me way back then. Thanks and happy Thanksgiving Justin!

[@goswo]

Wow my exact story 😀

[@RussC123]

I’m glad I’ve never gotten into the modes rabbit hole.. hell it’s all I can do to turn a major/minor pentatonic scale into something musical. I’d be interested in your course for sure!

[@MrVyrtuoso]

The problem is the misperception that modes is for providing patterns over which to shred. No, modes provides a set of alternative tonalities to a given group of selected pitches that make up one particular tonality, also known as a scale. In other words, modes is for expanding the range of sounds you can get both vertically and horizontally with one scale in one key. Guitarists reveal themselves to be piss poor musicians if modes are constrained to providing some rudimentary vocabulary to playing variant lines. There's a relationship between modes and harmonic functions, and which mode you play over movements from one harmonic function to another in that context can make you sound inside or outside the movement, and this helps to generate interest in the music by way of creating tension and resolution.

[@erickkuhni6359]

This is a good comment - I'm not sure how modes are being taught now, but it sounds like in this thread they are being unnecessarily associated with guitar shredding, which really isn't even a good application of the modes. It's even weirder when the modes are being contrasted against the "chord-tone" approach, since the modes contain the harmonic information necessary to do that. Modes though, take it a step further by giving the harmonic information to be a bit more expressive than that by allowing you access upper extensions of the chord that may not be so obvious from the chords themselves. The chord-tone approach is great, and something that's worth studying, but it's also fairly generic and safe to simply play the pleasing notes that are moving with the chord. In fact, I would say that as a matter of music being "math", ie, some set of prescriptive musical formulas, the chord-tone approach is explicitly formulaic. It tells you what notes to play over the chord you are hearing.

[@TomCPlus1]

The light has come on for me, and I won't stop looking for more colors of that light. :)

[@johnpannella]

Great video! All the technical stuff can get in the way of simply creating music. Your point about Jimmy Page being rough or sloppy is so true but the feel in his playing was amazing. He could play one note and there was feel all over the place. Really enjoyed this one Justin.

[@nigel2967]

Thank you Justin, once again you have freed my mind. I learned about modes about 40 years ago and have always felt like i was missing something because i could never use them effectively in my playing. When I write music and improvise solos I try to find something musical that fits and sounds good. I now I know that's all I need to do. I will leave modes to the likes of Steve Vai.

[@drjonado]

for years I tried to get better at my guitar playing...didn't seem like I was progressing. I attended a Martin Taylor guitar retreat. focus was on melody....so, now my practice revolves around trying to picture melodic lines that I think in my head and having my fingers play what I am thinking. a great practice was doing what some jazz singers/guitarists would do was sing out the same notes they would play....I remember George Benson doing that..at first I thought it wasn't something I liked to hear BUT is is amazing practice to connect what is going on in your head to what your fingers are playing...so now most of my practice is based on slowing down and programing my fingers to play what I am actively thinking. knowing where that tone I hear is on the fretboard....

[@bazilbrushrocks]

This is great, Justin. Modes do seem to be rammed down players' necks way too early and without the right context. At the heart of it, they are just showing which chord tones and extensions will 'work' in a diatonic progression. Your chord tone soloing is simply beautiful and, I think, what many of us aspire to playing. Theory is for the text books when you can play like that!

[@InGratitudeIam]

"It's a great way to do math while playing..." LOVE IT! That's how I felt. I really wanted to nerd out on Joe Pass but, alas, I could not. :) (And I was good at college math.) I stumbled upon what you're saying when I figured out Don Felder's lead in "Take it Easy." It's all in the chords. This video is really helpful. Thanks!

[@StevieWonder824]

LOVE this video. Only question. When you’re thinking about the chords are you just thinking about what chord voicing you want? Also, what notes are you trying to use to walk into the next chord? I’d really appreciate a video explaining this. I share the exact same heart desire you do in just PLAYING and FEELING the chord progression and heart behind the song. I find myself being trapped in the pentatonic box to go from one chord to the next. I’m just mainly curious as to what notes you’re thinking about using to walk into the next chord. Thank you for your insight!😃

[@JustinOstrander]

I guess it’s somewhat subjective. What color do you want to hear? One example, when I go from G to Bb (both major triads), and I’m playing G and Bb single notes, I think the A sounds best between them (it’s the 2 of G and the 7 of Bb), but you might like Ab (it would give a dominant 7 feel to the Bb chord, but it may sound wrong being a b9 to the G).

[@raybehrman9505]

Thanks Justin for saying it so well & convincingly pointing out the years of strugle that were not heading the right direction !!! Just Subscribed

[@toploadtele]

The Rain Song Tuneing comes to mind... very creative!

[@mlj654]

Justin, it is so refreshing to hear your take on soloing! I have almost 50 years experience under my belt. I have tried almost every course of study I could find to enhance my playing. I will say that the various ways I tried to learn modes and scales etc. took me further. However, I don't believe the answer to the quest for improvisational freedom when soloing is a strict mastery of theory. Don't get me wrong, you should have some theory or else you won't understand that there are some basic rules that apply. The trick is to not be confined by theory, or modes or even trying to sound a certain way. If you can get to the place where you hear a route through the music you are playing to, a path that you hear just before you play it, then you have freedom to go beyond theory. That was something I learned only after many years of working through books and videos. If I can save some body some time getting where they want to be, I would just say you should keep an open mind. Don't get locked into the process because the goal is to transcend theory or modes or even scales. If you can hear the route in your head just before you play it you have freedom to play it from the heart.

[@StratTones]

Beautiful shared! Love it, thank you!

[@CoffeeDrinker71]

This lesson gave me inspiration to break out and try something new. Thank you!

[@AdamWellsMusic]

That second improv is what I try to do when I write. Another great video.

[@jeremyversusjazz]

I don’t wanna do or hear Math when I play or listen to music either. I’ve been studying jazz lately with a phenomenal teacher, who specializes in the Barry Harris pedagogy for lack of a better word: Chris Parks-of “the things I learned from Barry Harris” channel . it’s amazing-it’s really cool. but the one thing I struggle with is contrary motion or “counterpoint.”a) it’s really hard but B) because I feel like I’m having to do math even though that’s really not what it is but it feels like that to me so I need to get over that because it is a beautiful sound. but I agree with you about the modes. I know them inside and out but I never think about them anymore- especially now that I’m working on this stuff. Chris jokes that Barry never said the word “mode” in 30 years of studying with him. of course, Barry never thought about chord, tones, or wrong notes, or any of those kind of stuff. He has his totally different set of rules, which actually makes things much more free than all the diatomic rules that I had learned for the past 30 years. 😫😊 love yr channel brother! PS totally agree with you about Jimmy page. I think his live playing was so sloppy because he was basically drunk. I think if he had been sober, maybe it would’ve been less fun to play those shows I don’t know I’m not Jimmy page. but the studio stuff is amazing because he had time to craft the stuff and play the parts with more care &precision. I’ve learned a bunch of zeppelin note for note-made multitrack recordings of them and I was blown away by how many parts are actually on a lot of the Led Zeppelin tunes things you don’t even hear, but when you dig up like actual charts of the tunes and you look and you see what’s really there and then you listen again you can hear it and it’s like oh my God. Yeah page is amazing.

[@iantaylor827]

Yeah, I took this from Guthrie's videos maybe 18 months ago and it helped a lot. This is excellent. Thanks Justin

[@b_snyder]

I absolutely agree! I struggled with modes as well, and when I tried to play as you described, it just didn't work. I think it's more about a sound than anything. Getting sounds like Carlos Santana personifies the Dorian sound rather than the mode itself. I relate Mixolydian to The Allman Brothers also. I'm glad I'm not alone in this and I have listened to Guthrie intently and gotten a lot from his understanding of how professional players see and understand the fretboard. Thanks for the confirmation Justin! It's more helpful than you might know. Especially in my late years!

[@AddisonSauvan]

This was amazing! At the end you said “everything is chords”. On a practical level, would you say spending time learning chords and their inversions inside and out on the fretboard is the quickest path to executing this type of thought process really well? Looking forward to your course! Thanks for all the wisdom you share.

[@JustinOstrander]

One can’t know too many chord shapes :)

[@mooseymoose]

If you learn chord construction then all the shapes are taken care of.@@JustinOstrander

[@eddietrucco9969]

Couldn’t have said it better. Straight and to the point. Bravo! Thanks for the video dude.

[@NadaSurfinAB]

Let me start by saying that your approach to soloing is my approach to soloing. I taught myself intervals, not scales for the same mathematical and feel reasons you have. Where I wish I had a better grasp of modes is for pulling out surf twang. I was in the middle of a worship song one day at church, and I could feel it coming. I took a 4 bar break in the middle of the song, and I was touching on Dick Dale - and it totally worked. I don’t know which mode it was, but it was something like a klezmer mode. I have a thing for klezmer, especially pre-war, and I’m not even a fan of clarinets generally. I like flamenco for the same reason. The region north of Africa was a melting pot of cultures and the music reflects it. I find modes, including surf twang, clear my very western pallet and intuitions a bit, but I’m not fluent in them. Guess I just admitted to being a musical gringo. I’m surprised to hear modes coming out of top 40 radio more and more. Every once in a while one will catch my ear at work.