If You Ask Him He'll Deny It, But It's True

Star Trek · The Next Generation · s05e03 · Ensign Ro
Thanks for clicking, thanks for watching, hope you got what you came for.
BuyMeSomeBeans: ko-fi.com/tjwparso / paypal.me/tjwParsoTV
Intro Audio: Star Trek TNG: s03e06 'Booby Trap' & s03e12 'The High Ground'
Outro Music: • STAR TREK - THE NEXT G... , • Magical Trevor : Episo...
& • I Love Beans by Brak
Discord: / discord
Twitter: / tjwparso
Reddit: / tjwparsotv

[@tjwparso]

Star Trek · The Next Generation · s05e03 · Ensign Ro Thanks for clicking, thanks for watching, hope you got what you came for. BuyMeSomeBeans: ko-fi.com/tjwparso / paypal.me/tjwParsoTV Intro Audio: Star Trek TNG: s03e06 'Booby Trap' & s03e12 'The High Ground' Outro Music: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZnXlGaYitp0hKM , kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6aWXpuhYtWLqa8 & kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYu6goCsfbOCpKs Discord: discord.gg/2PAjZf8TeV Twitter: twitter.com/tjwparso Reddit: www.reddit.com/r/tjwParsoTV

[@tjwparso]

I Think That Will Be Sufficient kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6XFqp9mm9NsftU You're Taking Her Captain! ...I'll Fill You In Later kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4K5d2Rml8aji5I I Wish To Be Candid With You Ensign kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3m3dWuFp9d3lc0 When Humans Were Not Yet Standing Erect kzbin.info/www/bejne/aX66goKAa6ysj6s I Tend Bar & I Listen kzbin.info/www/bejne/i2Palpx-hd1oe5I All Is Not What It Seams To Be kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYvOnKOYipt-iZY Confined To Her Quarters kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGKqiKGalMt2psU If You Ask Him He'll Deny It, But It's True kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3-aZ4l_pKyZbbs Involved In A Conspiracy kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4u2hphrrbV0sNU "Now We Have A Common Enemy" He Says kzbin.info/www/bejne/inLdin97oMSnes0 Two To Beam Up kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppqVqIeXpqyMsNE

[@happyninja42]

You know I think it's pretty safe to say that her performance of Ro Larin is the main reason they expanded DS 9 to have the Bajorin/Cardassian subplot. She was SO damn good with this character.

[@zacharyfett2491]

Once again, the Starfleet admiralty lives up to its reputation.

[@bensisko4651]

You ain't lying. No wonder Kirk didn't want to become one lol....

[@LGranthamsHeir]

Based on latest "Picard" season, most of them ended up transformed as Changelings. No wonder they're all Badmirals 😆😉

[@2Scribble]

@@LGranthamsHeir As opposed to TNG season one when they were all bugs -snort-

[@LGranthamsHeir]

@@2Scribble Better a shape-shifter than an 'Alien' xenomorph I suppose 😃

[@Cheeseshredder]

Not a ST expert here, just watching for the character after Picard season 3. lol Did she just say the Kardashians? at 3:35

[@ryanbaker979]

Her story about her father is so well delivered it hurts to hear.

[@TheRetroWoman80]

Very moving and the audience well understands how her deep trauma justified her actions.

[@notabannedaccount8362]

@@TheRetroWoman80Traumatized people shouldn’t be held to the law.

[@TheRetroWoman80]

@@notabannedaccount8362 At times, no, I wholeheartedly agree. Others wield their deep pain in the realm of manipulation and deceit to hurt others on purpose. They often make it hard to believe whether traumas stories from true sufferers are real or not. I hate that.

[@geoffwilliams4478]

​@@notabannedaccount8362the law is the law. Two wrongs don't make a right. However, the law DOES show room for compassion and understanding, which means that we should at least listen to the others story. Let them give a possible defense of their position and find help for a better way.

[@Xerock]

It’s a nice piece of character building but it has absolutely no bearing on what Ro and Picard were talking about. Would have been great if Ro showed up on DS9 and recognized Garak as the man who tortured her father.

[@JCWatz1]

He misses it, Ro in this scene is already telling him. If she has to choose between Starfleet or her own moral compass she will follow her compass. The kind of person who would sacrifice themselves for their friends. Ro is one of the best developed characters in the whole franchise.

[@Ares99999]

The people on the Enterprise were her friends by the end. She betrayed them for terrorists.

[@tadakimasu]

Ngl, I missed it. Thanks for your insight

[@eliasseldon1644]

I didn't know this. ... I prefered being ignorant about it.

[@michaelbayer5094]

Are you referring to when she joins the Maquis and Picard feels betrayed? If so... I don't think Picard "misses it" as much as he deludes himself into believing he has converted her and he will continue to form her into a great Starfleet officer

[@Ares99999]

@@michaelbayer5094 Or maybe she deluded herself into thinking she could be one. Alas, she was, at the core, only a worthless Maquis terrorist.

[@gnarlin4964]

Two people, in a room, talking. Good writers, directors and actors all working together will make that riveting.

[@ThatCerberusGuy]

Ro was always one of my favorite characters in TNG. I love Major Kira,, but I was always a little sad Michelle Forbes turned down the opportunity to be on DS9

[@sandal_thong8631]

I heard DS9 was a rough long-day set. But at least Ro doesn't look cross-eyed when delivering her lines like Kira, probably due to the nose piece.

[@martynstembridge7714]

Last night we got her back ... Briefly, but it was OH so good.

[@seriascannain6675]

@@martynstembridge7714 Then she sacrificed herself to save her friends and expose the evil changelings!

[@AzguardMike]

the actress playing Kira was crap. She was always smirking, even in serious scenes. Even on Charmed where she is supposed to be threatening a guy, she was grinning like a idiot.

[@gu9838]

yeah i think she would have been great on DS9

[@andouille1]

This conversation resumes almost 30 years later 😢

[@SaraMorgan-ym6ue]

and during the next two hours as you were forced to watch as your father was tortured to death Infront of you😢😭

[@riddlemaker7547]

Picard should have remembered this conversation before he asked her to aid the Cardassians against Bajoran terrorists in Preemptive Strike. Should have remembered and not put her in that position in the first place. In a way Ro's betrayal highlighted Picard's greatest flaw: he is so loyal to the Federation, so Starfleet ideals heart and soul, that he forgets that others have loyalties beyond the Federation. Hence if Ro was willing to go against Federation ideals once to aid her people, she could do so again. Picard should have remembered this conversation.

[@martynstembridge7714]

Very well said ... It was very unfair to send her on that mission JUST as she was finally settling into Starfleet duty.

[@GrahamNificent]

So fun to see Ro call him out in this exact way on Picard S3

[@TheRetroWoman80]

Exactly. Picard thought her just being on the glorious Enterprise had somehow changed her into someone else. He thought he honed and refined her. Ro was never going to change. She even told him in "Ro Laren" she was never going to be the model officer.

[@boogienightsmarkwahlberg6011]

As much as this is true, I disagree. Picard cant be perfect, no matter how close he appears to be. He still has to have flaws. He is still my Captain, but he is also still human. Glad he messes up every now and then ;)

[@ValiantWrestling]

It was Maquis terrorists in Premptive Strike, not Bajorans. The Cardassians had already evacuted from Bajor by the time of Premptive Strike.

[@TheZetaKai]

The political intrigue of the episode is clever, and well paced. But the emotional impact of the show is all on the titular Ensign Ro's shoulders, and she's excellent here. This scene is brilliant, weaving the two sides of the story together in a way that feels organic and compelling. In lesser hands, the pathos of Ro could have come off as cliche or hamfisted, but Forbes delivers an understated performance that explains her motivations admirably. I can see why she was chosen for this role, as well as why she was sought out by the producers for bigger things.

[@TheEDFLegacy]

I'm really glad that she got the chance that she did as Admiral Cain in Battlestar Galactica. She totally stole the show during the tragically short period she was a part of it.

[@develynseether4426]

I loved this episode, this and season fours 'The Wounded' really paved the way for the darker side of the alpha quadrant outside of the security of the Federation and 7 new seasons of Trek that offered some very close resemblances to society today.

[@LGranthamsHeir]

@@develynseether4426 And pave the way for DS9 & DISCO series...

[@cryofpaine]

@@TheEDFLegacy I'm kind of sad she didn't take the offer to do DS9. Kira was great, but I still wonder how Ro would have been instead.

[@randomrazr]

was this actor suppose to be on voyager?

[@augustwyllt2421]

This. Literally just this. No music, no suspense, no flashy special effects, just rich and superb dialogue making you feel things, keeping you invested, and making you think. This is what Star Trek has lost. They don't make this kind of art anymore. This was how you make change in the world. We need this in our media today.

[@andrewdillon7837]

True bro ,,good work..

[@rmguest]

Amen! I'll never trust the corporate mainstream media...bought by big pharma.

[@markusburkhard5712]

Well said, thank you!

[@BenMJay]

The globalists own the rights to these shows now. And they are “all in” in making junk. DEI Junk. No thinking, no story, no soul, junk.

[@WujekFu]

And bright, atmospheric light not dark and gloomy like in Discovery or Picard. Watching Trek now you feel like you're watching a Mirror Universe with some twisted version of a Terran Empire but not UFoP.

[@deltaray3]

Such a great scene, and it's ALL dialogue!

[@PuppetierMaster]

Speaks volumes about Picard that his own crew is willing to tell not only court martial offences to him directly and Picard's legendary compassion shines out the better.

[@jmarie9997]

Once AGAIN, Picard is shocked, simply SHOCKED that an admiral is corrupt.

[@zacswicord4496]

To be fair most of starfleet was being run by a bunch of admirals possessed by space bugs. Who knows what was going on during that time.

[@3Rayfire]

Berman said that Starfleet likely had a fleet of 30,000 ships at that time. That likely means thousands of Admirals spread across 8000 light years. We see the bad actors a lot because our heroes have to deal with them, but most Starfleet Admirals I would imagine, managed to keep their morals when they sat behind the desk.

[@saeedhossain6099]

and the captain always seems so shocked that the entire point of Starfleet, like all the other interstellar militaries, is to project power. he's the perfect patsy.....

[@murdermatics]

Man she seems to really struggle to talk about her father being tortured and really seems like she's (the actor) is about to cry from the weight of it.. Great work all around.

[@martynstembridge7714]

Forbes is a fantastic actress ... I'll always wish she had stayed for more TNG episodes, but she did have a nice little arc across the shows she did appear in.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

Forbes was only 26 here as well!

[@KokiriLegend]

3:43 Picards exhale and actions afterwards are like that of a father being unhappy with their child but seeing that they aren’t at fault because their pesky uncle told them it was ok to raid dads bean stash.

[@SeattleSandro]

Ro Laren was such an amazing character and Michelle Forbes is so good at conveying her anger, frustration, hope, fear, and trust in Picard. I always found her departure in Preemptive Strike kind of jarring and surprising. I hate that it took us decades for Ro and Picard to reconcile, but I love that they did, short-lived as it was. He was truly hurt by her defection and that hurt turned into anger, but that anger didn't last long when they finally trusted each other again. May the Prophets guide your way, Ro Laren of Bajor.

[@novacolonel5287]

Ah, please don't tell me they had her turn up in this blasphemy that is "picard" just to kill her off two minutes later for the lulz. Like they did with Hugh or that Borg kid. I'd so wish they would have killed only Wesley and then went on with GOOD writing, and dialogue, and a story line that made sense. New Trek is such a heaping pile of shit.

[@donalddixon6541]

I believe she's still alive. She was transported in time...

[@BracerJack]

She single handedly carried this ENTIRE scene. And like someone says, no effects, no lens flare, no 360 degree rotating camera that NOBODY asked for or ever wanted to see.

[@donalddixon6541]

Best decision Star Trek ever made to hire Michelle Forbes to play Ensign Ro. One of the best actresses ever....

[@BracerJack]

@@donalddixon6541 Absolutely!

[@leopold7562]

This is why I love TNG. No shouting, no fights, no explosions. Just two people, talking it out. A scared Ensign with a secret that could spell her end. A captain who has no idea what is going on beyond an Admiral working with an officer with a serious stain on her record. The only reason he’s listening and she’s talking is because of Guinan. And in this one scene, you can see Ro let it all go, throwing herself on Picard’s mercy, because Guinan said he could be trusted. And Picard, listening to this seemingly unbelievable story of subterfuge, realising that she’d be crazy to say anything given her past record and that she’s putting herself on the line

[@MrMike77471]

I had been a fan of Michelle Forbes since her "Guiding Light" days. I loved Ensign Ro. To this day, I'm disappointed that she didn't appear in more episodes. For the limited number of appearances she had, she made one hell of an impact on the series.

[@TheMrPeteChannel]

I think she wanted to play a lead.

[@ericsmith8373]

This is one of the most gripping scenes in all of STNG.

[@Littletime839]

Holy shit I'd forgotten how dark Ro's backstory was.

[@beyerdr]

Her ending isn't much better. Recruited yet again by shady admirals to work in the shadows. Still not knowing who to trust.

[@TheRetroWoman80]

@@beyerdr What a tortured but brave life she lived.

[@jiripodivin7139]

Could be worse. Way worse.

[@MLBlue30]

​@@jiripodivin7139True. She could have lived on a planet among rape gangs, then die to a sentient oil slick.

[@kermitbohlen8401]

I'm sure people have said it before, but this is one of my favorite moments in TNG. It's just soooo...human. People in doubt. People conflicted. People *trying* to do "the right thing" in a complicated world of divided loyalties and dogmas and compromises...and ultimately, resolution comes not from borg nanites or reversed polarities, but by people talking to each other. Guinan plowing past Ro's protestations to get her to talk - Guinan building bridges between picard and ro so they could finally ACTUALLY talk to each other...and people that actually listened to each other instead of trying to "win" an argument...I long for a world where people strive for connection and cooperation instead of division and conquest.

[@taopilot2669]

"Guinan is very selective about whom she calls a friend." So am I.

[@geoffwilliams4478]

And I.

[@lisasimmons5362]

Superb performance by Michelle Forbes in this scene, and her performance in HALF A LIFE blows me away every time.

[@GuineaPigEveryday]

Seriously underrated character in Star Trek. She absolutely nailed this introductory scene where everything about her attitude, her character, her backstory and her stance towards the crew was laid bare. I come back to this scene I have no idea why she’s just an impressive actor, she had to carry this scene with all this dialogue across from Stewart after all.

[@TheRetroWoman80]

Yes...and that hairstyle was so dope.

[@The_Gallowglass]

God I hate the word franchise.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

@@TheRetroWoman80 Very 1991 look.

[@TheRetroWoman80]

@@RideAcrossTheRiver The Half A Life episode or this one in the clip? I say that because the Half A Life one was weird, dope and futuristic all in one.

[@Paveway-chan]

*Fantastic* delivery from Michelle Forbes in this scene, holy crap

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

I wonder if the cameraman saw her doing this so well that he just did a slow zoom on Forbes by instinct.

[@christophmalone6388]

I’m here after “Imposters”. What a great character

[@rubiks6]

Excellent, excellent script writing. Ro's dialog is first-rate, as is the whole episode.

[@nolinbolin5064]

"Guinan is very selective about whom she calls a friend." Yeah, she selects everyone.

[@TheEDFLegacy]

Not everyone... that's what that rifle behind her bar is for. 😁

[@amspracklen]

Especially when Q is leary of her. So, she probably doesn't need it

[@chance4771]

Yes...and they are all on "the view"

[@nb2008nc]

@@chance4771 Not very selective, actually. Just anyone that votes for candidates with a D by their name on a ballot.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

@@nb2008nc You are watching the wrong show. The world of this show left you behind 350 years before.

[@categoryfairweather2843]

One of my all time Faves. Love Ensign Ro.

[@YTEdy]

What really gets me about this scene isn't the discussion about how Cardassians tortured her father, but how Ro doesn't trust anyone, except Guinan, and that Guinan instinctively knows that Ro is a good person. Ro came on the ship knowing that nobody liked or trusted her, and on top of that, knowing she had a mission she had to keep secret from them, and Guinan cut through all that and reached her. This is a story about the power of trust and friendship, set in the backdrop of conspiracy and politics and a cold war between the Federation and Cardassia. It's one of my all-time favorite Trek episodes.

[@3Rayfire]

Because Guinan is an outsider who likes other outsiders. She knows firsthand that being an outsider doesn't make you a bad person at all.

[@kevonslims7269]

I remember being 13 years old and in love with ro. 🥰😘

[@davemiller6055]

I don't know who you are or why you like beans so much, but thank you for putting out this Star Trek content.

[@TheRetroWoman80]

I know right....that "diggy do!" always gets me at the end😂

[@tomb7942]

Nothing seems to make Picard more salty than finding out that one of his crew is following secret orders from a higher rank.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

Picard's job is to promote the best or Starfleet while also taking care of his ship. He does that to the letter but it mystifies him why such simple things always devolve to politics.

[@racktech6384]

"Jhooon Luke, I'm giving you this fighting chance now, like you have given me a fighting chance"

[@sliceserve234]

once again just an incredible script, great acting, camera placement and movements add to the scene, wonderful stuff as usual TNG.

[@outsideredge]

I loved Ro because she’s the closest thing the TNG crew had to a shit-disturber. The rest of the crew got along like a big family, but Ro wasn’t meant to get along with everyone. That quality helped her expose and confront cracks in the Federation, and that made her an awesome addition.

[@3Rayfire]

Well the thing was that Ro was the troubled child in the family. She had strong feelings and relied on her gut, but she also loved her family and wanted to be part of it. She cared, but always felt like she didn't belong and had to do what she had to do.

[@quietearthMT78]

There are so many rogue Admirals in Starfleet, lol.

[@MM22966]

This was a very topical episode at the time. The news was filled with stories of brutal inter-tribal conflicts and repression in places like Sub-Saharan Africa and the Balkans. Like most good scifi, Ro was holding up a mirror to what was happening in the real world.

[@LGranthamsHeir]

I'd love to see Ro Laren reappears in a future DS9 centric reboot or sequel series. As seen in her TNG appearances, Ro is a survivor. I never believed she's perished alongside the rest of the Maquis when the Dominion War is over. In my head canon she's roaming somewhere in the galaxy until the right opportunity requires her to show up...

[@ReadmanJ]

In the book, I believe, she becomes the commander of DS9

[@davepowder4020]

@@ReadmanJ Up until she gets shot by the Cylon that she was torturing. Oh wait, I've got my Michelle Forbes fandom mixed up again!

[@oddish4352]

@@ReadmanJ I love that irony... she joins the Bajoran militia after surviving the purge, and is reinstated in Starfleet after Bajor joins the Federation. Talk about a colorful career...

[@martynstembridge7714]

I wondered if maybe she would show up in one of the Picard seasons ... but that looks unlikely now. Always wanted to see how Picard would react to seeing her again, after his silent betrayed simmering stare at the end of 'Preemptive Strike' ...

[@LGranthamsHeir]

@@martynstembridge7714 Update: Ro is back on "Picard" but her episode had a bittersweet ending 😢

[@bmac1205]

One of the most underrated, underutilized, under valued characters in TNG.

[@SSPerfectChaosRCT]

Between this and his latee dealings with Nechayev and the incident with the Pegasus, Picard only starting to question Starfleet after the destruction of Utopia Planetia and the scrapping of the Romulan relief fleet seems very late.

[@charleskinsey2077]

"Sheer fucking hubris."

[@3Rayfire]

Nechayev and he had honest disagreements and didn't personally like each other, but he respected her enough to try to be cordial. She wasn't actually corrupt either, just way more aggressive than him. I think if she had met Hugh herself, she may have had a different opinion about using him as a weapon.

[@BigNoseDog]

This scene shows the second example of Worf being a lousy security chief in this episode. Ro is a prisoner let out to help on this one mission. Worf lets her send and receive transmissions and doesn’t check who they’re with.

[@Dowlphin]

Confined to quarters, not a prisoner. Prisoners go to the brig.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

Ro wasn't an idiot. She would know how to setup a communication link that was not only encrypted but also masked. Think about using the Tor network as a current real-world analogy. The only fool-proof method is for all communications to be on a black out. In fact, Odo proposed this during the brink of the war.

[@Ragzzy-R]

You know I love Nana and she's a great actress and I'll always love her as Kira Nerys. But Ro Laren as First officer of Deep Space nine would have been an equally good universe. It's such a shame that they couldn't pan that or out well

[@martynstembridge7714]

So true.

[@michaelbayer5094]

I really liked this character too. On the upside, though, DS9 was able to unpack Kira's character and her past without the audience's pre-conceptions. If Ro were there instead, a lot would have been baked in. Also, in S1 and S2 Kira was a foil for Sisko, and it's through Kira, that Sisko (and us) come to understand Bajor, the occupation, and the role of the Kai. I would have been a different show.

[@bigmike2464]

IMO, one of the best episodes of TNG

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

Having learned about the Iran-Contra scandal through the Behind the Bastards channel, what the admiral is doing here is likely a reference to it. The only difference is, there are no Federation citizens being held hostage.

[@stratfordbaby]

1:10 It's like Iran Contra. Secret weapons to the 'enemy'. One enemy is better than another story.

[@nealeorinick1700]

Love Ro. She was a great unpredictable character with a harsh past, unlike most of her fellow Starfleet officers who grew up in security and never went without.

[@randomrazr]

picards reaction to everything is WTF IS GOING ON

[@benjaminoechsli1941]

"Starfleet... _Humanity..._ is better than this!" Starfleet: "Is it really, though? 😬"

[@strategicsage7694]

@@benjaminoechsli1941 pretty much that, yep.

[@rachelolvera9435]

One of my favorite episodes

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

I like how Guinan and Picard are Mom and Dad in this scene!

[@diosoth]

What hurts about this scene & this episode as a whole is that even as DS9 progressed it was clear the Federation still never much cared for Bajor. They didn't care when the Cardassians were enslaving them, citing "the prime directive". After that ended they were only offering a superficial hand. They maybe took advantage of the wormhole situation but still only seemed to be using Bajor, hoping to get them as a member planet, but never really caring about them. They didn't like Sisko being their emissary. They didn't seem to like Bajor signing a non-aggression treaty with the Dominion as opposed to siding with the Federation. They will force Bajorans to take off earrings, but Worf's chainmail sash is just fine, I guess. Here we have 1 guy going against Starfleet but even those motives are probably selfish rather than any interest in helping Bajor.

[@zedwms]

Back in the days when Star Trek was epic.

[@TheRetroWoman80]

Indeed. It was more stories, creative matte paintings, green screen work for sure BUT....when the franchise became CGI saturated and focused (and the stories so so, along with acting) I kind of lost interest.

[@nnthayer]

Haha, “Bajora”.

[@BPond7]

We don’t talk about that! 😜

[@florbfnarb7099]

I think Picard is wrong to say arming those people is against what the Federation stands for. They're a conquered people, ruled by a dictatorship, an autocratic government. So long as they aren't simply murdering Cardassian civilians, I'd say arming them would be entirely the right thing for the Federation to do.

[@girlgarde]

Problem is, the Bajoran resistance/terrorist group in question is an extremist group that has murdered Cardassian civilians in the past as they see ALL Cardassians as evil monsters, even children so giving them weapons and ships would result in them murdering MORE innocent civilians just for being born Cardassian. THAT is why the Admiral was wrong, because he was putting innocent civilians at risk of being murdered in cold blood. The Federation is supposed to be working to protect the lives of innocent civilians, even enemy civilians. Even during the Dominion War, Starfleet tried to minimize enemy civilian losses with their attacks.

[@florbfnarb7099]

@@girlgarde - I agree. Did they REALLY commit those acts, or were they framed by the Cardassians? I saw another clip that strongly implied the Cardassians were framing them.

[@girlgarde]

@@florbfnarb7099 The leader of the extremist group WAS tortured by the Cardassians and lost his voice box because of them so I can see him having SOME enemy civilians killed such as for being in the wrong place at the wrong time like in a bombing or hit and run attack, not intentional but not caring if Cardassian civilians die or not. However, I can also see the Cardassians exaggerating his crimes to get their people riled up and screaming for his head as well as to get others not to support him and it seemed to be working as the Bajoran extremist group didn't have warp capable ships and in fact, could only go at half impulse.

[@calanon534]

Ehh.. that's the _American_ thing to do. That and send "Advisors." And more weapons. Then falsify an attack that never happened. Then send in troops for ten years. Vietnam, for anyone who's slow on the uptake. Yes, the United States late admitted the Gulf of Tonkin incident never actually happened. The Federation isn't the United States. Moreover, the Federation of 2368 is not the Federation of 2268. If this was Kirk's era, there'd be low level skirmishes with the Cardassians on a regular basis, the Bajorans would be handed whatever the Federation could spare, and Kirk would double-hammer-punch Cardassian Guls for fun, while seducing every Cardassian and Bajoran woman in sight. Why? Because the Federation of 2268 was very willing to go full Vietnam with an enemy power if it meant destabilizing them. It's not really covered, but they were constantly engaging in Briskmanship with the Klingons, until the Organian Treaty. The Federation of 2368 was a Federation that believed in peace at ANY cost. They abandoned Federation citizens in the DMZ to the mercy of the Cardassians - most of whom were eradicated during the Dominion War. They refused to prosecute the Cardassian Conflict properly, and secure total victory, instead settling for the peace that they got. The Federation simply did not care, any longer, about the lives of individual citizens, and instead, cared only for the survival of the Federation as a whole. Peace in our time. No matter what. So, yes, this goes against everything the Federation stands for as of that Stardate. Not the Federation that came before it.

[@PhilipWeberAB]

Pretty ironic for a French guy. Didn’t remember his family history during ww2?

[@LordTalax]

Another corrupt admiral.

[@LGranthamsHeir]

Still doesn't rival Satie and Bitchayev in terms of their evilness, if you know who I mean :)

[@cryofpaine]

Are there any admirals who aren't corrupt? Except for Kirk & Janeway.

[@jacksonheathen2092]

It's interesting that the most corrupt characters in these Startrek series always turn out to be the Admirals. Just saying.

[@girlgarde]

@@LGranthamsHeir Satie was a fanatic who let her zealousness consume her while Nechayev was simply looking out for the interests of the Federation as a whole but was out of touch with the harsh reality of what was going on in the DMZ. They both had good intentions but they made mistakes and did things to cause us the viewers to hate them.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

@@girlgarde Nechayev blew it by not letting Riker take command.

[@GuineaPigEveryday]

I’ve watched this scene about a dozen times now, the staging of it and the way the actors move, its hard to tell where the script ends and on-set director/cinematographer or actor improvisation begins. Ik a lot of the script tends to change under shooting schedules but man what a fantastic set of choices they made for how Stewart and Forbes move around the scene, indicating the ups and downs of conversation, of tension, of trust or reaching out for trust. When Stewart first interrogates Forbes, on the attack and suspicious, but then walks to his desk after hearing her statement and beginning to consider what she has to say. Near the end especially, when Forbes stands up, and then when she admits not being able to trust anyone picking at her fingers, then only at the end Stewart really leans in close giving her a proposition that they can work together. All of this is so obvious when you think of it, or put on the page, but how do you think this up from the dialogue-cues to match so perfectly. This is real filmmaking right here, back when we were far less desensitised by all the stimulants of online activity, as a young person myself I do wish we could have filmmaking like this again.

[@obliviouz]

"I find that impossible to believe..." Picard... how long as he been around for? This is *exactly* the kind of stuff Starfleet admirals would do.

[@gustavosilva-pj9tm]

The beauty of ro laren is awesome

[@user-ws6kx8lk6f]

The birth of the Maquis.

[@dogkungfu8510]

One of the best scenes in all of Trek.

[@BrentSaulic]

Ds9 was born in this episode. She should have been major Ro Laren under Sisko.

[@elchasai]

just about the finest acting ever found in the st franchise

[@ocsrc]

I loved this character. She acted the hell out of this role

[@dac314]

"Then we have one thing in common" Fucking YIIIIKES, when Picard sez that to you, it must make you feel so vastly alone. I really feel bad for her, and the actress portrayed this scene, if not her entire role, very very well.

[@GuineaPigEveryday]

Then we have one thing in common is him being kind saying ‘well see we do have that in common, i trust any friend of guinan’. I dont understand why you see this as cruel or something?? Its pretty clear the intentions of what he says, that he’s softening up to her

[@danielaguilera474]

That is. One. Long. Take . By tng standards. She is one of my my favorites even if she did defect.

[@Otaku155]

These are my favorite episodes; where Starfleet is revealed as not being perfect.

[@arralartathi]

MIchelle Forbes is a hell of an actress and the character of Ensign Ro Laren was criminally under used by this show.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

Forbes made sure she was not involved any more than she was.

[@irgordon]

Now Commander Ro on Star Star Trek Picard, S03E04

[@kevingallineauii9353]

Another great choice (of a scene). Love the bean!

[@MassEffectFan113]

Ro was so beautiful. Damn.

[@varianschirmer9375]

1:45. That realization, once again, he gets to be the one that has to end an admiral's career. Put aside Arbiter of Succession of the Klingon Empire. Picard was Internal Affairs. Not that he wanted to be, mind you. Kennelly being duped by the Cardassians Pressman trying to end run the treaty with the Romulans Satie with her inquisition against Picard. The one that made his blood oath with Karnas. Throw in the Klingon envoy trying to use LaForge, under the effects of Romulan "brainwash", as a triggerable assassin to potentially disrupt the Federation-Klingon peace treaty. Even the sneaky one that paid for his treachery with his life in Insurrection.

[@craiggilchrist4223]

Ro is the most beautiful thing ever, my first crush back in the day.

[@DUNG30NDUCK]

Ok ok ok FINE, you've persuaded me to go and watch the Ro Laren episodes instead of doing what I'm supposed to be doing FINE, stop bullying me :P

[@jooky87]

The Cardassians are the middle easterners of the Star Trek world

[@lisasimmons5362]

Fabulous scene

[@woyame1]

By far Ro is one of my favorite characters in the entire "Next Generation" incarnation of Star Trek. I won't say they did her character 'dirty' in the end, but they did do her...'inadequate'. For who and what she was, the end needed to be a couple of levels higher.

[@hubbsllc]

It seemed as if the character of Ensign Ro was flown in from a whole different series.

[@Brendonbosy]

1:16 considering how many times they've dealt with the "unhinged admiral" plot in Starfleet, I'm more shocked how Picard is so blind. They all might as well be working for Donald Rumsfeld

[@tablescissors67]

Always thought she was dead cool.

[@joestitz239]

Brilliant episode

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

Lower decks at least gives a humorous explanation for admirals so frequently going off the rails.

[@wesmartyn3829]

I love Lt. ROE . Damn.

[@Bobo-ox7fj]

I was just remembering Magical Trevor a day or two ago. YT works in mysterious ways.

[@basilmcdonnell9807]

Patrick Stewart expresses such amazing character here... when he sighs!

[@SanjaySingh-oh7hv]

That part from 2:12 to 3:07 is brutal. Hard to believe the Cardassians would be portrayed like this in Star Trek back in the PC 90s. Makes them seem unbelievably cruel, compared to the Klingons, Romulans, even the Borg.

[@LordTalax]

Uh 90s were far less PC than pussies today.

[@cryofpaine]

"PC 90s". 🤣 Tell me you don't remember the 90s without telling me you don't remember the 90s.

[@girlgarde]

Well, the Cardassians ARE a race of conquerors and it was confirmed in season 4 that they murdered numerous Federation colonists at a Federation colony including children so them torturing a man to death isn't much of a stretch to believe. We need to keep in mind though that not all Cardassians are evil, they just had a shitty government with a number of evil agents to carry out their will.

[@calanon534]

@@girlgarde Setlik III Massacre.

[@GuineaPigEveryday]

Did you even watch Star Trek???? None of what ur saying makes sense. ‘PC 90s’ wtf r u on about, TNG and DS9 came out in the 90s, hardly fucking PC

[@ijbdawg9]

What I like in this scene especially is that Picard seems a bit snarky at 3:58, but realized that and took a moment before responding at 4:05

[@LGranthamsHeir]

How many of you thought Ro Laren was originally meant to have a major role abroad DS9 after watching this scene?

[@cryofpaine]

If you did, you'd be right. She was supposed to be the "Major Kira" style character, but she turned it down. So they rewrote the character.

[@andrewshouse9840]

She was also meant to be on Voyager (hence the setup from "Preemptive Strike") but she turned it down so we got Torres.

[@jacksonheathen2092]

@@cryofpaine She would have been great as Major Kira. But so was Nana Visitor.

[@mjbachman3027]

@@jacksonheathen2092 Except when Kira got in a fight, which most of the time didn't look believable due to her small stature.

[@martynstembridge7714]

They tried to tie Forbes down to a show several times, but sadly she wasn't keen on TV work at the time .... fast forward several years, and she has made a living from brilliant roles in multiple TV shows. I once read that it was even difficult to get her back for 'Preemptive Strike', with her agent knocking them back constantly ... but I'm so glad it did happen, and Ro got a great farewell story that ended her short arc.

[@LGranthamsHeir]

Update: Ro is back on "Picard". She is bad-ass as ever, but what a bittersweet ending 😢

[@happisakshappiplace.6588]

Yeah I was like NOOO

[@LGranthamsHeir]

@@happisakshappiplace.6588 I have a slight hope that this was part of Michelle Forbes audition as a lead in the upcoming new "Section 31" themed Trek series. But knowing her track records, I won't breath on it either 😒

[@Littletime839]

Which part was sweet? Killing off characters because you don't know what to do with them is some lazy writing

[@ffnbbq]

​​@@Littletime839 Reread what he said - it was bittersweet. As in both pleasant to see Ro again, but regretful she dies. Besides, knowing Michelle Forbes and her long-standing reluctantance to reappear in Trek, it's possible she only agreed to appear so long as Ro was killed off.

[@Littletime839]

@@ffnbbq I didn't appreciate that but shouldn't be surprised as Michelle's career has been a busy one. I was annoyed when I wrote the above as Ro was such a good character.

[@ckok7792]

Well that just shivers Picards Timbers doesn’t it!!

[@TheRetroWoman80]

The complexity, fiery soul and growth of Ro Laren, even up to her death, was extraordinary. Well done Michelle Forbes👏👏👏

[@vortex_master]

The Return of the Beans!

[@Tuffsmoygles]

It's crazy that the federation was like "these occupied slaves can't be armed!" bruh...

[@TheRetroWoman80]

Turning a blind eye is like that....

[@richardlahan7068]

Ro's character was really underutilized.

[@dragon22214]

I mean if an admiral is giving they orders by that standard are still illegal orders

[@Evil0tto]

Credit to the director. The slow, oh-so-slow zoom in on Ro as she tells her story adds weight to the horrible tale.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

They do one with Jellicoe too when he describes the Cardassians' motivations.

[@RoachDoggJunior]

Thinkin bout thos beans

[@TheRetroWoman80]

😂

[@safirahmed]

Neelix could make Cardassian beans more exciting for the Maquis.

[@grantcoffman2698]

"Commander, why are you launching Vipers.."

[@rachelolvera9435]

Picard was excellent in this scene.

[@Zoomer30_]

To this day no one has explained what those little pieces of plastic Picard carries around in his ready room are

[@TheRetroWoman80]

Almost equivalent to a tablet, kindle or just simply a 24th century to do list device sans any type of paper involved.