If you kill a killer

[@nothin388]

"The only thing I feel when I pull the trigger is the recoil of my gun" is a such a cold line

[@ccelite3782]

It's an insane statement but it fits Jason

[@someotherworldlybeing3167]

Pretty sure it’s from a deadly sniper

[@Hermit.47]

Simo Hayha

[@IHateAmer1ca]

I saw this quote on Nokks bio in R6

[@JusArcadian]

Cold Ahh Line

[@TwoHeadedMeerkat]

"Killing the Joker won't solve anything." "It would solve a lot of things actually."

[@CommentPositionInformer]

Well, it would replace a Joker with another. I guess that's something.

[@CatBxtchNami]

@@CommentPositionInformer That makes no sense and you know it.

[@Vitallor]

Sort of just creates more problems,if he kills joker why not kill everyone?And if he did that would gotham even want a “Hero” that’s just a serial killer.

[@CatBxtchNami]

@@Vitallor A court of law in the real world would've already executed the Joker 10x times by now. Even anti-execution laws would not protect him because the government would most definitely declare him a terrorist and a danger to the state. Batman would need to protect the Joker from the fucking US military at this point.

[@skyguyflyinghigh]

​@@Vitallor this line of logic they use for batman and others stand by is mindboggling to me, lets say i send you through a timeportal to the most recent world war and you're face to face with the bad german man, would you not kill him because you think when you get back that one death will make you go around macheting old ladies for taking too long to cross the street ? of course not, because human brains are capable of nuanced morality and i'd imagine you wouldn't want the blood he spilled by on your hands by proxy, soldiers don't come back from war thinking "well i killed one person why not just everyone i see?". it's like saying "i can't drink water robin ! if i drink water then i've... DRANK ! and if i drink once then i'll drink again and you know what's next ? i'll start drinking alcohol ! i'll become an alcoholic ! and then since i've already drank why not drink everything ! i'll drink my own piss robin ! i'll drink sewer water !" like there's levels to doing an action, a drink of water does not mean you'll start drinking sewage, and ending a person with enough blood on their hands to paint the ocean red doesn't mean you'll start doing it to little timmy down the road for stealing a chocolate bar.

[@thatboyakira4202]

"I dont kill my enemies." "Maybe that's why you have a lot of them."

[@memerboi7128]

-Oswald Cobblepot, the emperor penguin

[@dennisbeaman958]

Bruce originally killed people and used guns

[@beta_tst]

But "i have no enemies"

[@vidar188]

Ive always hated the trope where the "hero" won't kill his enemies. Like its not murder lethal force is regularly justified. Its ridiculous. That's why i liked man of steel. Did he want to kill zod? No he tried non lethal first, BUT when it comes down to it he values the lives of innocent would be victims over the life of the genocidal mass murdering maniac.

[@Dr_mafario]

"With enemies like these, who needs friends? Or parents for that matter!"

[@trainknut]

"Jason we can't use guns" "Why not, Bruce?" "Because we'd be way too OP if we could just shoot people"

[@1stCallipostle]

Bats is canonically cracked with firearms

[@vidar188]

​@@1stCallipostledepends. Multiple instances have been shown where he struggles with them because he cant always get over his disgust at needing to use one

[@karilizard36]

​@@vidar188 ah so he's cracked

[@flamelover1746]

If you kill a killer, but that killer was going to kill a hundred killers, how many killers did you kill?

[@skywalker5018]

Sir this is Wendy’s

[@ericx6969]

LIGMA BALLS

[@denkerbosu3551]

If Joker were to carpet bomb Arkham Asylum the next day, you would have a point.

[@bobjustbob2063]

​@@denkerbosu3551He'd 1000% do that so yeah, he does have a point.

[@DanialTarki]

99. The Last Man Standing. **Strums guitar in D-Sharp Major, in that show’s theme** Edit: Or 100, if you’ve already killed people. Or 100, of you just want to keep it simple, regardless of whether or not you became a killer for just killing one of them.

[@billcipher9344]

"The only thing I feel when I pull the trigger.......is the recoil of my gun" Thats actually a badass line.

[@zyxyx6754]

Taken from the Punisher, I believe.

[@brwisnt]

@@zyxyx6754simo hayasa irrc

[@zyxyx6754]

@@brwisnt 100% not from Simo Häyhä.

[@adventurer3288]

I think Sumo just said "the recoil"

[@moai4110]

​@@brwisntsimo did not say that

[@saqvobase4301]

"When seeking revenge, dig two graves" "I'm going to be killing a lot more than two people though"

[@damienofthedamned]

*Appplause!* Bruce: Did you really out of your way to install a speaker just for that joke? Jason: Yes

[@danzack900]

Jason:That's just how predictable you are.

[@gianfrancoortizvera6161]

Nah, I’m pretty sure that was the Joker

[@purpleperfection6304]

I like the idea that Batman found the quote on Reddit or something and just threw it at Jason without really thinking

[@big_sea]

yes

[@johnsonbro4944]

Some people do that nowadays

[@nkz8722]

@@johnsonbro4944😂

[@MominEnjoyer]

It's now my headcanon that Batman got his entire moral compass off reddit when he was 12

[@KT-dt35]

And he's the world's greatest detective

[@johngaelnox5447]

"I don't enjoy killing but when done righteously it's just a chore like any other"

[@Existential_Robot]

Joshua Graham is a treausre.

[@johngaelnox5447]

@@Existential_Robot Amen to that

[@Brandelwyn]

We cant expect god to do all the work

[@BraidensWorldEntertainment]

“I cant take much pleasure in killing, just one of those things you gotta do”

[@Tsuyuri193]

​@@BrandelwynWhen has god ever worked

[@AtariEric]

"What I feel Bruce, is the gratitude of the people who won't die because the killer is dead. Their mothers, their fathers, their sons and daughters, their friends; I feel the gratitude of everyone who knows them. You're so focused on your own trauma that you don't see the bigger picture."

[@NostalgicGamerRickOShay]

A big huge Amen to that. This is why I have completely denounced Batman and have completely embraced John Doe Vigilante. Have you ever watched the movie John Doe Vigilante? I know it's here on YT.

[@vitormenezesdemattos967]

Exactly. That's why i hate this "never kill" rule. And batman's the most extreme hero with that. Even with the joker blowing up a city by making superman mistakenly killing his pregnant wife with a nuclear bomb attached to her heartbeat... batman still goes "Clark, you killed a man" after he kills the joker (RIGHTFULLY SO! OF course superman went "ENOUGH!").... HOW MUCH OF A ZEALOT DO YOU HAVE TO BE?! "Oh, if i go down that level, i'll never go back"... uh huh.... and this is somehow, your mental health, more important than the tons of lives that you will be saving by killing this psycho who killed dozens or hundreds and prision doesn't stop him. Your mental health is more important... ok. (That's why i do NOT consider batman an actual hero. He prefers to spare a maniac whom prision doesn't stop him from killing dozens or hundreds, then having to deal with the thought however painful it surely is, of having directly killed someone. If i had to choose between the punisher extreme, or the batman extreme, i'd choose the punisher. These batman versions that insist that by killing the joker he'll be as evil as he is to me are NO HEROES AT ALL)

[@vitormenezesdemattos967]

I once imagined if the joker actually got cured and regretted his crimes and became a good guy, IF he hypothetically changed and becamen good, i think he would tell batman that batman should have killed him, and that he cared more about the joker's life than of those he'd be saving by killing the joker

[@Joural0401]

Interesting question- does having the capacity to do a greater good make that a moral necessity? If batman saves lives by fighting the Joker, but refuses to kill him, is that an immoral action if the Joker will eventually kill more people? Personally, the way I view it is that Batman is only capable of the good he does because of the moral stances which lead him not to kill. You can't really have the iron clad will that built Batman without the iron clad inflexible morality that spares the Joker. On the other hand, Batman's point is that accepting responsibility to kill someone like the joker will lead one to accept responsibility to kill other criminals, and... that's exactly what Red Hood does. It's exactly who he becomes. Any violent criminal he comes across, he kills. What gives him the right?

[@sebastianquiroga7146]

@@Joural0401 so... the right thing is to keep a maniac capable not only of killing people, but torture them and/or using them as playthings alive? This is not about cheap "morals", is about people safety. Sure, killing ANYONE that comits a crime is excesive, but someone of Joker's calliber? Even if Batman don't kill him, on prison they should give him the death penace.

[@comicfan1324]

Maybe this would be a better quote for Batman? “If you kill a killer, their victims won’t return. It only ensures more people die.”

[@BLAZER_VA]

That might be better than this one

[@L1z43vr]

Then someone would reply “Letting them go will do the same thing, it won’t bring them back, and will guarantee more people will die”. Like, that’s Jason’s main point, Batman letting the Joker alive at all costs essentially kills more people than it saves.

[@ericx6969]

Jason- more bad people dying is good tho imagine if the dude who didn't kill ur parents etc. u might not been batman but their would been someone who took ur spot as a hero

[@gayanudugampola8973]

@@L1z43vr pretty much. Joker never gets thd death penalty. So he just keeps killing more and more people.

[@jsb6975.ah.crapbaskets]

Leaving the killer alive comes with the same conundrum, so that one doesn't work either.

[@OmegaHeroLegacy]

Jason: If a bullet train leaving Metropolis at 100 MPH with ten killers on it heads towards Gotham City while, at the same time, a locomotive with twenty killers on it going 50 MPH travels to the same station in Gotham City, How long will it be before the two trains collide and how many killers will survive the full speed impact of the two trains? Batman: Alfred, I think I need my graphing calculator...

[@slayerofdarknssdmt9697]

Is this an undertale reference?

[@brandonmulryan1522]

Trick question as the survivability rate between each individual is a non quantifiable number that does affect the outcome number you must do a series of multiple tests that are nearly identical so not to skew the numbers and find the average result of those tests. It is going to cost a lot of money and need a lot of bodies(pun intended) so that means Batman can preform these tests himself.

[@weeblordgaming6062]

Get out the bat calculator

[@goldenwarrior1186]

@@brandonmulryan1522r/cursedcomments

[@revimfadli4666]

​@@weeblordgaming6062 don't forget the bat-tery!

[@pauld.b7129]

I love that Batman never mentions the troops that fought in WW2. Imagine him giving the "killing is never ok" speech to a guy who stormed Normandy 😂

[@ДмитрийРубежов-э1б]

"Tell That To Soviet People Because Of Who I Am Still Fucking Alive." - Me © 😅

[@Adam4s]

“If you kill a killer, the number of killers in the world remain the same.” Jason: Yet; the numbered killed is reduced.

[@botspotter8379]

It's like doing logic with certain not right social/political types, Reality does not apply.

[@fairystail1]

its the problem when you have a smart character. if the writers aren't smart then he says something that may sound deep on the surface but is actually stupid af

[@sakurahirawa]

@@fairystail1Fr. So sad when that happens tbh.

[@whiteeye3453]

Like it won't bring them back

[@yourknightmanny]

Another pseudo-intellectual stupid one-liner. One uses the power of hatred for evil and the other for good. One is simply, a killer - or a demon if you will. The other one is an angel of death. And the real definition of what it means to be an 'angel of death'. One who kills for good - not whatever main definition they got on the Wikipedia. That's just how strong this 'meaning' is. They are trying to censor this ultimate truth.

[@yazidefirenze]

"If you kill a killer, the number of killers remains the same." "So convince them to do it for you?" "Jason, no."

[@anxiousearth680]

Now this is big brain time😂

[@michaelmoser7497]

At some point you’d think Batman would see the millions of people Joker has killed and be like “yeah maybe my logic isn’t working for this guy specifically.”

[@retronerds6884]

He doesn’t recognize it till decades later

[@flamingscar5263]

The comic writers try and back batmans logic by saying when batman does eventually kill joker he feels as though there's no longer a point in maintaining his no killing rule, which, like, makes no sense, why does the world of batman have to be so black an white? Like just because he killed the joker doesn't mean he should give up on trying not to kill

[@justjoe4390]

I agree. I think it's stupid to view the action of killing in such black or white terms. I mean, does it REALLY make sense for Batman to move on from killing the Joker (a gleeful mass-murderer who never stops mass-murdering) to killing shoplifters and bank robbers left and right?

[@painvillegaming4119]

Do people really think joker has a kill count in the millions ? Dude it not injustice Hell the death in Gotham is 182 and decreasing Bruce is allowed not wanting not to kill

[@thedeadpoolwhochuckles.6852]

Batman doesn't kill because a dead joker doesn't sell comics.

[@gameguy1337]

The real reason

[@seventycross0yt175]

Exactly DC is too damn greedy to actually have Batman be smart and do true justice

[@JakePercy]

The comic where he killed joker didn’t he become the batsman who laughs and in another he’s just off the deep end😊

[@JakePercy]

Also failsafe that’s prob also a reason

[@PuchimonExtreme]

@@JakePercy That one is Batman fused with Joker's chemicals. Yet only Batman from that dimension gets it, none of Joker's other potential killers do. Which means the whole chemical plotline is BS excuse for Evil Batman. If Batman had any sense, he'd throw Joker into prison for the first 2 to maybe 4 or 5 times, depending on the danger/severity of the crime. For example, killing Jason is "alright" because its just one person, so maybe 4-5 times of "Killing Jason" before you change prison sentence to death sentence. If its like Injustice where its "nuke Metropolis" regardless of whether the attempt is successful. Then it should be instant death sentence.

[@ppbutnotbig6236]

"You forgot one thing, jason. I saw you jaywalking" 1:28

[@smoldragon339]

So if Jason already killed a bunch of killers before this conversation, like he claims to have done, he's already a killer. And so, what's the harm in letting him continue to reduce the total number of killers in the world?

[@1wayroadAccel.]

exactly

[@65firered]

Because code.

[@rainbowmoon1461]

Yeah, Batman already watched him blow somebody’s head off. 😅

[@Niemandzockt]

Because letting him go at that point would make Batman complicit in the killings.

[@smoldragon339]

@@Niemandzockt Then leaving someone like Joker alive, knowing that Joker WILL escape and kill again, makes Batman complicit in JOKER'S killings.

[@spectralknightgaming8364]

Batman: If you kill a killer the number of killers in the world remains the same. Jason: Okay but if you kill a hundred killers that number goes down by a lot.

[@yourknightmanny]

"Batman's" a fool.

[@defcon7653]

Bruce's ultimate argument-winning strategy for when you've run out of valid points and counterpoints? Just slam the other guy's head into a wall.

[@ravencollins5638]

He can't have a counter argument if he's brain damaged

[@painvillegaming4119]

His ultimate argument is he doesn’t believe in taking a life as a valid solution (unless it Darkseid but Darkseid is a entity who can sniff the multiverse away )

[@thespiritqueen983]

“The only thing I feel when I pull the trigger is the recoil of my gun” That line did not need to go so hard 💀

[@knuxuki1013]

Finally, a character actually shuts down that damn statement but Batman's question of feeling remorse for ending a life is a pretty valid question, some people can be spared, SHOULD be spared

[@NebulaDark]

Yes. But in this case it was the Joker in specific situation.

[@kingcyclops4079]

@@NebulaDarkhe did mention killing a bunch of other guys earlier so I assume that part is also in question.

[@DarkJusn2020]

@@kingcyclops4079 Fair, this kinda reminds me that one time punisher murdered a rehabilitated petty villain that had became a hero in his first fckin day. Jesus christ Castle, wtf...

[@nikey2110]

@@vak.o It's not really a big deal if someone becomes a killer if they did a good thing. Say, by killing in self defense. boo hoo.

[@jadencrawford2772]

Joker ain't it

[@wahidpawana424]

For a man who prides himself as an embodiment justice and vengeance, Batman sure does a terrible job at giving the family of homicide, murder and manslaughter victims justice.

[@CommentPositionInformer]

You do know that he doesn't have authority to kill people, right? Batman is just a guy with good intentions. He is not a Cop, a judge, nor a jury. There is a reason tribunals exist. In the real world, Joker would've gotten the Death penalty 1000x over. This is a classic comic book logic making Batman look bad.

[@lucysteel2686]

​@@CommentPositionInformer annoying as hell... he doesnt have the authority to give people a brain injury either but here we are

[@CommentPositionInformer]

@@lucysteel2686 There is a *big* difference between assault and murder. Certainly you are aware of that, right? Or do you also think a petty thief can easily become a mass murderer?!

[@Matt-zu2lu]

On one hand I agree with Batman that some criminal deserve a second chance or may be in serious need of mental help but the on the other hand the Joker repeatedly kills innocents and therapy has been shown to not work on him so if Jason did kill Joker he would just be stopping more innocents from dying

[@MrDibara]

True. We got cases who really just need some help, like Mr Freeze, Clayface, Harvey Dent, Selina Kyle... *And then there's the case of people like good ol' Joker or even Zaaasz.* _(I probably butchered his name)_ Batman's rogue gallery REALLY should've been given different treatments for each different circumstances. The fact they're all grouped up as the same in Arkham just proves what a joke Gotham's justice system really is.

[@NostalgicGamerRickOShay]

This is why John Doe Vigilante is my hero now. Screw Batman. The movie John Doe Vigilante is awesome.

[@sartbimpson4519]

If I was Batman, I would be like: I don‘t kill people, bullets do

[@MrDibara]

Thomas Wayne's Batman in a nutshell. 👌

[@nofacedgoldfish6216]

Fun fact about this film: Rewatch the entire fight scene in the bathroom. The bathroom doesn't have a door. How is one supposed to use it?

[@Shevtress]

Bruce noticed & made a door.

[@nofacedgoldfish6216]

@@Shevtress World's greatest detective, solving problems as always.

[@fairystail1]

look Kitty Pride is a really shy pooper okay!

[@nofacedgoldfish6216]

​@@fairystail1Wow. Kitty is so shy she has to travel to another universe just to comfortably go to the bathroom. XD

[@Vertically_rotated_shark]

"Killing the joker won't solve anything!" Literally everyone with common sense will see the flaw here

[@retronerds6884]

Seriously like Barbara wouldn’t be crippled and Jason still be alive

[@Vertically_rotated_shark]

@@retronerds6884 in fact i think batman cares more about joker than jason

[@retronerds6884]

@@Vertically_rotated_shark he does Batman has resurrected the joker , batman has saved the joker from the death penalty, and the worse one Batman has saved the joker from the punisher I repeat Batman has saved the joker from the punisher he literally told joker to run

[@Randomaccount9470]

​@@retronerds6884oh yeah and the punisher had a good point on why joker had to be killed I remember that cross over Fun fact I now read more punisher comics than batman one I just realised that, king of killers is awesome 😅 Still love batman though

[@painvillegaming4119]

@Vertically_rotated_sharkok we’re not doing that when Bruce would have snapped his neck if Clark didn’t stop him Bruce was gonna kill the joker and Clark was the one person who could stop him

[@Mag5c68]

No no, Jason is cooking here

[@stefanplays7857]

Straight facts

[@superzilla784]

"If you kill a killer, the number of killers in the world remains the same" Yeah, but here's a question. if you kill a killer, how many more murders happen in the world after that? especially compared to the Joker's scoreboard?

[@botspotter8379]

Murder and killing are not the same, All way amusing how so few get that. If I murder innocents I am an evil person. But if I kill an evil murderer to prevent the death of innocents. I am a good person.

[@ericgabrielbautistajaimes9187]

He killed doz2ns of killers but gotham remains exactly the same

[@residentfan1521]

@@ericgabrielbautistajaimes9187so what you’re saying is………we should nuke Gotham!

[@joyeuse8524]

​@@ericgabrielbautistajaimes9187because it's Gotham... And because bats keeps sending the worse ones to an asylum which does nothing to actually fix them but instead ends up with broken doctors that join them *stares at Harley*

[@gameguy1337]

Well if you keep killing killers then the number of murders still remain the same. Because you keep killing.

[@ReigoVassal]

Jason: Joker kills at least 3 digit number of people each month. If I kill Joker, how many people will get murdered? Edit: I forgot how Joker operates.

[@fod7281]

1

[@majormadness8760]

3 people each month? I feel like its 3 people every half hour.

[@DarkJusn2020]

@@majormadness8760 Nah it's more of a zero streak during a few hours and then a few dozens/hundreds (depending on the story) all of a sudden and then it slowly deescalates. C'mon we seriously weren't expecting joker if all people to follow averages...

[@duskbringer4583]

Joker: "3? I really have been slacking this month, Better pick up the pace! Let's see if we can get to three digits!"

[@stevemclovin1566]

...none that would be murdered by joker.

[@theromanorder]

I think it would of been colder if when batman asked "what do you feel" jason just said "recoil"

[@WitnessesSay]

The no kill rule started as the standard run of the mill reason why the main antagonists get to stay around. However as the stories kept coming and devious deeds didn’t decrease in damage and dastardliness they had to stretch the rule further and further to keep them around. Eventually they ended up gaslighting themselves and the audience. My head cannon is that batman doesn’t kill his villains because if he did it’d get boring and he would have nothing to do.

[@fairystail1]

i like that better than the 'if batman kills one person then he would kill everyone' argument. always just makes me go if the guy is so unstable then maybe he shouldnt be in the job where he routinuely hospitalizes people.

[@Indigo_1001]

So what’s the solution, have Batman kill the joker and have the joker never return in the story again…?

[@Indigo_1001]

@@fairystail1 YES! That’s the point, he is already kinda unstable (the fact that he dresses up as a bat and beat up criminals didn’t give you the hint?). He doesn’t kill to retain the small ounce of humanity he has.

[@WitnessesSay]

I’ve gotten really tired of joker antics so yes.

[@WitnessesSay]

But no the answer is make prequels. The joker isn’t that important anyways.

[@chickensky1121]

If you kill a killer, but that killer was going to kill multiple other people if you didn't, the number of killers may remain the same, but the number of people killed will be less. And I know there's no guarantee IRL that a person will kill other people, but in fictional worlds, it starts to become tiresome when the hero not only lets their villains live but GOES OUT OF THEIR WAY to keep the villains alive when all of us in the audience know that doing so is simply going to lead to more innocent people dying in the future. I respect heroes who have that level of self-control, but there comes a point when demonizing the act of taking a human life, no matter how justified it is, becomes ridiculous. (If anything I think the logic would actually make more sense IRL than in fictional superhero universes, because for some reason prisons are just completely incompetent in superhero universes and it's extremely easy for villains to escape.)

[@Ender41948]

As much as I agree with your point (we do have the death penalty for monsters such as these for a reason), the thing about Batman is, he's more concerned with going down a slippery slope than riding a moral high ground. Justifying the death of the Joker is easy. Justifying torturing the Joker before he's killed is a little too doable. And once you've justified that to yourself, you could justify doing almost anything. If you bend your own rules, you'll soon start breaking them. It's like taking a cheat day in a diet. You'll become less and less focused on your rules, and more about bending them and breaking them.

[@chickensky1121]

@@Ender41948 I guess I can understand that, but I feel like Batman's media portrayal as a whole just kinda ignores the fact that Batman himself is a unique case. It feels more like a self-challenge than anything else. And also, Batman lives in a city where countless people have done some kind of evil act in their lives, which forces him to draw a hard and fast rule. That isn't the case for all superheroes, or in all types of fiction.

[@HPeacer]

Batman just afraids that darkness in his heart going to consume him

[@cidlunius1076]

I feel like when he said "World's greatest detective" thats when the joker shiulda interjected with a laugh or just laughing the whole time in the background. It's all cool though.

[@Nothing_happening_here_go_away]

- ,,I know you are hurt” - ,,He tortured me, mentally and psychically, then killed me, Bruce”

[@Kitty255Again]

Okay but if you kill all the killers then there's one serial killer. If you kill yourself there's no more killers and you enter Hell as a legend.

[@MrDibara]

*_Sounds like an epic way to go out, honestly._* __the Punisher, probably

[@Existential_Robot]

But your legendary status would give rise to clones/wannabe serial killers, wouldn't it? People love to imitate those they appreciate.

[@Kitty255Again]

@@Existential_Robot They wouldn't be imitating me since there'd be no killers to kill, making them regular killers. Someone else would then kill said killer, beginning a continuous cycle started by me.

[@Existential_Robot]

@@Kitty255Again So we'd be back at square one lol.

[@Kitty255Again]

@@Existential_Robot Pretty much yeah lol

[@XenoTronusWeePoo850]

The thing is batman, sure the number of killers will stay the same, but at least the new killer isn't an insane psychopathic criminal unlike the previous killer

[@D-class9341]

Except Jason was kinda insane

[@CommentPositionInformer]

Not at the start at least. Give it a few months.

[@DaydreamerTheDevil]

*remembers titans series where joker died and scarecrow became the next one* Yeah . . . /hj

[@persif4l228]

What you feel taking a human life? Recoil

[@anxiousearth680]

"If you fight for ideals, then all you can really save are ideals." -Archer, Fate Stay Night

[@D-class9341]

Tbf Batman has acknowledged the fact that his no kill rule is due to the fact that crippling someone for life is more enjoyable than murdering them

[@yourknightmanny]

Pseudo-intellectual quote.

[@anxiousearth680]

@@yourknightmanny Ultimately, life's a lot more complicated than any single quote. So it's not wise to think that you could learn something from just that. So, I'm not saying that this quote has all the answers. I just think it's interesting and fitting. Batman fights according to his code. But an ideal only has value in how it affects reality. And his no kill rule is actively furthering the carnage caused by Joker. So in the end, is he saving people or just his ideal? In the context of Fate Stay Night though, it means something entirely different. The MC of Fate is Shirou, a traumatised person trying to untraumatise himself and soothe his guilt by becoming a hero and saving people. However, an older character with similar experiences, Archer, opposes it with the quote I mentioned. In addition, he also says this: "If your goal is to save people, then that can probably be achieved. But if your goal is to save yourself, then that will never happen. " Their debate is more about what the ideal means personally to Shirou and how it will affect him, rather than the right or wrong of it.

[@regis5112]

If violence doesn't solve your problem that mean you aren't using it enough.

[@DepressedCrow]

Violence is never the answer It's a question and the answer is yes

[@kerrielizabethrobinson8435]

This is the best comment in the whole internet

[@Eques_Umbra]

Honestly, when it comes to comics, its a moot point anyways, since any hero or villain will just come back to life through some convoluted means. Jason himself came back because Superboy Prime punched a hole in reality, or Raz tossed him into the Lazarus Pit, depending on which continuity you go with. Even if Batman or Red Hood did kill the Joker, he would just come back as a grinning zombie, have a mutated clone, or even have a chip implanted on someone to turn them into a Joker... wait.

[@Indigo_1001]

That’s the point that a lot of people miss. With all this praise that Jason “gets shit done” and is a better hero then Batman, yet HE will never kill the joker for the same reason, the joker is too popular. Please, show me a CANON (as in it actually happens in a story, and not “choose your own adventure BS”) of Jason killing the joker…

[@SteveCrafts2k]

Tim Drake: _stares awkwardly._

[@unanimouslyhated]

@@Indigo_1001 Thats not a flaw in the logic of killing heinous criminals, that’s just writing BS

[@lenkagamine4145]

He still kills plenty of other small-timers who *will* stay dead, though. So... Not a bad start. @@Indigo_1001

[@kade-qt1zu]

​@@Indigo_1001That doesn't disprove Jason though?

[@marzeloperas]

Peacemaker: "Then kill more killers, asshole!!"

[@tyroneshazernim3277]

"Jason, if you kill a killer, the number of victims go down."

[@cellardweller5245]

Supeheroes are good people whose desire to do good is restricted by the fact that comic books about them still need to be sold. The story can't ever end. The villains can't ever be finally defeated.

[@1stCallipostle]

Eh, they reboot them every 5 years anyway. You might as well kill some mfs along the way. Or have random goons die but then major villains conveniently escape or miraculously survive a bullet every time

[@Ratscallion_exe]

"Murder doesn't determine who is right, it determines who is left..."

[@ZzVinniezZ]

Batman refused to kill because he doesn't want to step over the line meanwhile Jason is already dead....there is no line left for him so why not just let him kill all the villains in 1 night, at least Jason knew where the limit are.

[@inserisciunnome]

Batman brings up very valid points: if Jason Feels nothing when taking a life, can he really be trusted with the power to take mo-? ..oh its JOKER's Life? Nevermind then.

[@CommentPositionInformer]

At first. Then, it's someone who acts similar to the Joker. Then, someone who seems like he could become a future Joker. Then, an accomplice who helped a potential Joker in committing a crime. Then, it's an innocent, who is trying to protect a family member that Jason thinks could be a Joker.

[@beefyblom]

@@CommentPositionInformer This is a slippery slope fallacy.

[@sanchikotjendrakasih9138]

The heroes never think to create prison designed and operate by them. The prison have to be impossible for bribe and can seal any power with very advanced tech. Joker and others will not escape every week with that kind of prison.

[@thedarkknight727]

“If you kill a killer the number of killers, might increase.” -Unknown

[@yourknightmanny]

Whoa, so mysterious there.

[@xandersolis9521]

i feel like it was a missed opportunity to not have the joker do the round of appaulse

[@Rukdug]

Jason: "Hey, I'm not the one who brought dumb logic into this Bruce. It sounded like some sort of anti-vengeance saying you would pull out of a fortune cookie."

[@psychoticsy6350]

Aside from the last two lines this passes as a genuine interaction.

[@peak3369]

You missed the point, right before this he literally said himself that that’s it, to just let him kill that ONE guy and never again, then this convo happened

[@spectraphantom5870]

The fact you switched to Bruce beating the shit out of Jason is the cherry on top

[@LuckyThirtyEight]

Batman failed the 75 Speech / 8 INT check

[@Axel-n5o]

Punisher : Hmmmm seems like a good solution to me Red hood : Thanks

[@ZzVinniezZ]

except for the part where Punisher will kill on sight without remorse even when the villain wanting to quit the career while Jason would judge who has the right to be dead and those who can redeem themselves.

[@joshuahall1581]

@@ZzVinniezZ Well, Jason will judge every one not named the Joker that wants to redeem themselves. Jason when the Joker retired to live on the beach, tracked his ass down, in shot him in the back of the head to avenge his and the lives of the joker's victims deaths.

[@painvillegaming4119]

@@joshuahall1581you over estimate how stable Jason is

[@Lilitha11]

I am strictly against the death penalty, but in the DC universe where criminals always escape and it is impossible to stop them from killing people, killing them makes a lot of sense.

[@ACEYGAMES]

The idea of a person like the joker is a strong argument for the existence of a death penalty. Even if he could be permanently incarcerated, it would be an ongoing cost for no benefit to anyone. Edit: To clarify, i doubt anyne like the joker actually exists, but the character is an indicator that there may be dangers, crimes or unrehabiltable people who should not be allowed yo continue as they are.

[@Lilitha11]

@@ACEYGAMES What is actually terrifying is that there are dozens or hundreds of joker type villains, and occasionally they have mass breakouts.

[@gfefighter8510]

I feel like the opportunity to put the joker for “ladies and gentlemen give a round of applause” would’ve been funnier

[@ShitpostingJoJo]

But if he has no empathy, then doesn't that make him a threat to ALL life instead of just criminals?? Like, y'know, a FULL ON PSYCHO? 💀

[@CommentPositionInformer]

Yep. As the Joker revealed during the "Three Jokers" saga, Jason already kills innocents.

[@guesty924]

Batman's better reasoning for not killing people was that he was afraid he couldn't go back, that he would become a monster himself. The rule was moreso for him

[@connorgrynol9021]

If you cross the line once, it becomes easier to justify yourself crossing it again. It’s how smokers who are trying to quit end up becoming addicts again. They tell themselves “just once couldn’t hurt” and then they say “what’s one more?” The same thing with exercising or dieting. The saying “never skip leg day” comes to mind. Batman has drawn a line that, if he crosses it even once, he will always find it much easier to cross it a second time. And a third time. And it will just get easier and easier until the line is completely forgotten about.

[@WitchFisterVeo1911]

The reason batman doesn't kill (aside from meta reasons) is because he believes in redemption, rehabilitation, and because he doesn't want to start multiple cycles of violence. His way is definitely still flawed, but he does have reasons for how he operates.

[@ReigoVassal]

Personally I think Bruce is right. The only time he's wrong is when he refuse to kill Joker despite him have proven to be very dangerous to let alive and the police did nothing about it. Also in one of the injustice Damian (I guess) confront Bruce about it, "You not okay with killing but okay with permanent brain damage?"

[@GameBreaker1055]

Also, if a guy with his ressources, training and inasnity starts killing, at what point will he stop?

[@SirsasthNigam.]

@@GameBreaker1055 Grim Knight

[@ggdwarf2069]

It’s also because he’s as insane as the joker is, it’s just that he’s a lot more disciplined

[@WitchFisterVeo1911]

@@ggdwarf2069 neither are insane, just lack any empathy

[@teamofone1219]

In injustice 1 game injustice Superman was legit killing civilians fleeing the city lmao.

[@riastradh]

Even if the number of killers remained the same, Jason isn’t putting up Joker numbers, hitting triple doubles at the morgue. So it definitely changed something for the better

[@raielle]

Yep. He's also canonically argued "If i kill X, someone will just come in to fill the void left by X's absense" It's like even if that happens, this new person won't have nearly as much influence, or power, they won't UNDERSTAND how you (batman) work as well as someone who's fought you daily for decades would, they would be an inferior far less effective version. And once you killed enough the next person who was considering it would realize if they 'fill that void' they're just sitting themselves into the executioners chair.

[@D-class9341]

​@@raielleactually it has happened joker has been replaced by multiple joker lookalikes in canon who have killed many more than he has

[@raielle]

@@D-class9341 Ok there bud. You apparently don't understand the meta reasons for that.

[@CommentPositionInformer]

@@raielle The only reason Joker hasn't received a death sentence on his second prison is because of the writers. So Meta reasons are a moot point.

[@hermos3602]

Batman should've just called Jason a hypocrite or something.

[@moseslalmuanpuia8988]

Now this is how you should deal with batman's no kill problem. Be a smartass and trigger him enough to seethe

[@GoeTeeks]

"Killing the Joker would remove my most popular villain from comic books going forward." - The real reason Batman doesn't kill

[@Pacca64]

Joker probably would start clapping there lol

[@KingOfSciliy]

Batman: What I mean to say is. . . "When you walk the path of revenge, remember to dig two graves." Jason: Well, that's inefficient. I've already killed more than two people so there is no way I'm stuffing those corpses in a snug grave. Batman: You know what I meant- Jason: And, as a matter of fact, why would I bother with a burial? Cremating them is just more efficient and I wouldn't have to deal with the bureaucracy in getting them interred six feet down what with private land, funerary rites, inheritance taxes, etc. Batman: It's a metaphor, it's not supposed to be literal!

[@winterspirit3734]

Batman: Kill a killer & the number of killers in the world will remain same. Punisher: Thats why I won't stop.

[@D-class9341]

And why he shot a little girl with zero hesitation just because she was in the way.

[@winterspirit3734]

​@@D-class9341what issue

[@D-class9341]

@@winterspirit3734 the punisher (2002) issue 18

[@ashishjojo3455]

One of the justification that batman cannot kill anyone is that if he killed one, he would become like joker. And he did become batman who laughs. Which says a lot about batman. Punisher is better than batman. Punisher used to kill people but he never turned villain. But if batman couldn't do, it only says batman is weaker than punisher in his moral code.

[@ernestorivas3764]

Well, didn't having a suit with the form of bat, spending all nights fighting crime instead of sleeping and addopt orphans to make them fight crime gave you a hint about Batman's lack of mental health. He is aware that he is traumatized (and apparently there are no psychologists in Gotham, which is a huge plot hole) and that if he takes a life, even if it's completely justified, his disorders would make him lose his sht

[@Raven1T2]

Batmans logic is why so many people have died, every time he lets the joker live, the joker kills hundreds more, killing the joker once means saving all those lives at the cost of someone who has murdered tens of thousands. The logic of you will be no better then them is the stupidest thing in the world. The punisher worked out.

[@CommentPositionInformer]

Did the Batman Who Laughs worked out? Wanna compare how many people BWL killed vs how many people the Punisher saved?

[@retronerds6884]

@@CommentPositionInformerthat was a Batman corrupted due to toxins not because he killed the joker and went insane why do you guys always quote that Batman but get his origin wrong

[@Randomaccount9470]

That was an unstable version with dumb writing and drugs That's like comparing captain America to Nuke Or Spiderman to Carnage

[@Randomaccount9470]

​@@CommentPositionInformerand the punisher has canonically freed child sex slaves - Punisher max Alot of kidnapped women can't even count it's alot even in the TV show And civilians also those mobsters and psychos usually don't come back

[@painvillegaming4119]

@@Randomaccount9470Frank also sees himself as irredeemable monster He constantly tell people to look up to Cap for a reason not himself

[@miguelmont.1111]

Meanwhile The Punisher: "Hold on. Let him talk."

[@SmithOfGear92]

"In my eyes it's just simple math. If someone starts subtracting the amount of killers in the world, the amount of killers in the world goes *down."* - Captain Obvious

[@matityaloran9157]

Killing. The amount of killing goes down but the number of killers doesn’t necessarily

[@Saint_Wolf_]

I get Batman, but if someone else's gets to his villains, then he can't get mad.

[@genghisdingus]

Imagine how many lives would be saved if batman just shot the joker.

[@retronerds6884]

Thousands of

[@elrenegat61]

Laugh in injustice lois voice

[@retronerds6884]

@@elrenegat61 in that case millions of

[@superpacocaalado7215]

People in Gotham must hate the Batman, as the Joker has already killed thousands of people and he just goes back to jail to scape again.

[@BiteMe5664]

Batman is a narcissist who can't admit when he is wrong.

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

Sure man. Everyone should start killing each other. In the comics, he's very open to others he works with having different opinions unlike in animation so maybe that's why you think that. Spoiler and the victim society arc is an example. Also batman let's red hood do his thing after a certain point

[@cookieaddict5956]

@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 are you dumb? That's not the argument At all

[@matityaloran9157]

In the show Gotham, David Mazouz’s Bruce Wayne acknowledges that Alfred and Gordon are capable of killing without crossing any line but he just doesn’t believe that he can.

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

@matityaloran9157 glad someone loves this show

[@MrDibara]

​@@matityaloran9157 So in other words, Batman is paranoid that he can't take a life without inevitably going murder crazy as a result. 😕 Not necessarily something that *will* happen, but he is too terrified of the idea to ever gamble with it.

[@daffoplays6616]

Bruce: "I know your hurt-" Jason: "*You're, minor spelling mistake, your argument is invalid."

[@willhiggins9563]

In Hulu’s Hit Monkey, the titular character has a code of who he kills. Only kill killers. If your gang up is stuffing out the life of a person, the least you can do to is acknowledge even killing a killer is at best a necessary evil, which is still try to avoid when you can. I mean, I’m pretty sure the main reason Batman has a no killing role is so he does whip out most of his own roughs gallery, and basically destroy the stacks of his own narratives.

[@dustinnabil798]

Sound reasonable

[@gregrobinette8620]

"If you kill a killer, the number of killers is the same" "Yeah no Batman, he kills people daily for fun, for you, I kill so others dont die, not the same" "But Jason-" "Batman, he's escaped Arkham for 50 consecutive years & has killed half the city."

[@kuleneko]

i think invincible handles it the best. in the comics he realizes that killing people changes things, but it might not be the answer.

[@Its_me_Stolas]

The amount of killers dropped significantly l, yet the amount of mass genociders grew

[@Randomaccount9470]

Facts

[@Tackitt]

"I don't kill people. I just break their bones and cripple them cause I'm a good guy" - Batman

[@Indigo_1001]

Who did Batman crippled in any story…? He beats the shit o it if villains like the Joker, Penguin, Riddler and countless others, yet they are seen walking fine in the next issue. It’s a comic book world dude…

[@Tackitt]

It’s a joke dude.

[@mishagaming1075]

@@TackittIf the joke doesn't make sense, you can't use "it's a joke" as an excuse.

[@LeonardAndHisBiscuit]

If someone kills two killers, that makes them a double killer. If a killer kills a double killer, that makes them a quadruple killer. If a triple killer kills a triple killer, that makes them a septuple killer. Highlander rules. There can be only one killer, and playing that game you're either the worst person alive at the top, or you're dead.

[@Ashadar_Resouley]

more like the world's greatest mathematician

[@nicolrb2210]

Killing a killer doesn’t bring anyone back, but that killer won’t kill anyone anymore

[@CommentPositionInformer]

Yeah. Or, that killer would repent, become a medic, and save thousands of life. The only reason people are calling Batman's logic bullshit is because Joker is a comic character. Therefore we *can* know his future, and what he will do. Turn the Joker into a real person, and suddenly everything becomes far more complicated.

[@kintsuki99]

It always about the number of killers when it should be about the number of victims.

[@supersoldier4079]

All jokes aside I believe Batman means that killing killers doesn't get rid of them it just replaces them.

[@Quinntus79]

If you kill a murderer the number of murderers is reduced by one, and the number of their victims is significantly fewer.

[@jessiehogue.]

No, because you murdered them, therefore you are now a murderer. 1 - 1 + 1 is still 1. You are correct on the number of potential victims, however. Now, if you kill 2 or more killers... THEN the number of murderers is reduced by 1+. :P

[@backrooms_timeline]

That version of Jason in this video was banger

[@omorinintendoswitchedition]

same vibe as “when going on a journey of revenge, dig two graves” “what a stupid fucking quote, im killing way more than two people idiot”

[@Falconii2]

Batman: not every problem can be solved with a gun Jason: Thats why I bring two

[@guidomista9565]

The world's greatest detective refuses to acknowledge basic math

[@AdamKlownzinger]

This video was sponsored by the death penalty

[@gortab]

Batman: "... you know what? I actually never thought about it like that! I _should_ be killing all my enemies!" Nightwing: "See? Now that wasn't so hard, was it?" Batman: "And then kill myself!" Nightwing: "What?" Batman: "I mean, seeing my parents killed infront of my eyes at such a young age right after we had all gone to the movies together... I could never live with myself if I took another life or stood by while a life was taken. But I don't _have_ to. I could kill every killer in Gotham City and then kill _myself_ when I'm done!" Nightwing: "Um, okay listen I didn't mean it like that." (Batman shoots the Joker in the head) Nightwing: Jesus Christ! Batman: Hehe, I don't feel a thing. Not even a twinge of guilt or shame. For years that damm clown was trying to push me to break my one rule with his mind games. And for years I resisted out of stubborness and because frankly his games were stupid and juvinile. But now... there's nothing but cold hard logic. I will never be happy. I could never have _been_ happy. But now... I could just put a bullet in the head of every damm murderer in the world.... or the _universe_ and when it's done and I have to think of what I've done, I could just off myself and finally be at pe-" (Thunk) (Reverse Flash appears right behind Batman, having knocked him out at super speed.) Reverse Flash: "Just giving you an option right now. No judging. Do you wanna back in time a few minutes and try something else?"

[@Kyleplaysgames567]

If you kill someone that's it they're dead. But if you let them live then they'll have to suffer the consequences of what they've done. Which in a way is worse than just killing them.

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

0:20 "JESUS CHRIST"😂😂😂😂 Bro, also Jason actually stopped Batman with kindergarten word problems.