Illuminating the Interplay: Emotion, Physicality, and the Path to Healing

In this episode of “Voices with Vervaeke,” John Vervaeke, alongside Terri Dentry and Aspasia Karageorge, delves into the complex interplay between emotions, chronic pain, and the mechanisms of healing within the framework of Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy (ISTDP). Through a rich dialogue, the discussion unfolds to explore the intricate ways in which pain serves not only as a physical experience but as a profound emotional and psychological defense mechanism, obscuring underlying emotional disturbances and traumas. The conversation navigates through the socialization of pain, the pivotal role of emotional awareness in healing, and the transformative potential of ISTDP in restoring agency and empowerment to individuals. By bridging emotional and physical healing, this episode illuminates the holistic approach necessary for comprehensive therapy, emphasizing the integration of diverse therapeutic practices. The engaging discourse provides compelling insights into therapy's transformative power, underscoring the importance of understanding and integrating our emotional landscapes.
Bios and Links:
Terri Dentry is a distinguished PhD graduate in interprofessional practice, dedicated to bridging the gap between traditional medical practices and holistic wellness approaches. With a keen focus on patient empowerment and integrated health solutions, Terri advocates for a healthcare model that values dialogical reasoning and personal journey understanding, aiming to transform patient care into a collaborative, multidimensional experience. If you’d like to reach out to Terri to share your own personal story or thoughts, please feel free to email her at [e-mail].
Aspasia Karageorge, DCP, is a seasoned clinical psychologist with advanced degrees from the University of Sydney and the University of Otago. She serves as a Research Associate at the Brain and Mind Centre of the University of Sydney, where she focuses on qualitative research in novel mental health interventions and medical education. To explore more about her extensive work and insights, visit her website at www.aspasiapsychology.com/sia... or follow her on KZbin at / @aspasiapsychology . For details on her clinical services and to book consultations, visit her private practice at sydneycitypsychology.com.au/.
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Connect with John:
Website: johnvervaeke.com/
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Resources:
The Vervaeke Foundation
vervaekefoundation.org/
Awaken to Meaning
awakentomeaning.com/
Voicecraft www.voicecraft.io/
Quotes:
"ISTDP stands for Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy, a therapy developed by Dr. Davanloo in the 60s. Essentially, it views chronic pain as a defense against emotional experience." - Aspasia Karageorge [00:06:00]
"Socialization of pain and how our narrative bias is driving a lot of this... the narrative bias coming from the early childhood experiences, and that providing the bias to what we are thinking, giving us a filter of how we are then relating to these things as we go forward in life." - Terri Dentry [00:38:04]
“Modeling goes deeper in the brain than propositions.” - John Vervaeke [00:59:20]
Glossary of Terms:
ISTDP: Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy, a form of therapy focusing on emotional experience.
Chapters:
00:00:00 - Introduction: Unpacking Emotions, Chronic Pain, and Rationality in Therapy
00:10:00 - Exploring the Socialization of Pain and Emotion's Role
00:15:00 - ISTDP and the Emotional Landscape: Understanding Pain as Emotional Distraction
00:24:20 - Restoring Agency and Emotional Insight: Pathways to Healing in Psychotherapy
00:43:00 - Integrating Therapies: Towards a Holistic Approach to Emotional and Physical Healing
01:07:20 - Conclusion: Embracing Complexity: Transformative Insights from ISTDP Therapy

[@johnvervaeke]

Join us on a transformative expedition to address the Meaning Crisis by becoming a part of our dedicated Patreon community 👉 www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke

[@oliverjamito9902]

Emotions come why? Remember being in front! Students shared "i" AM what is required? Without being offended in front! Well said! Gratitude and Honor students! Upon all dry grounds nor the world!

[@tiernanking6596]

@Aspasia what a treat. So enthusiastic and creative, such great work

[@aspasiapsychology]

@tiernanking6596 Thank you so much for taking the time 🙏

[@thomasf.webber4933]

Something I was curious about was whether this modality was possible to explore as a new awareness. Aspasia touched on how this shift of awareness might be explored in a facilitated felt experience, so is there an extention into less deliberately transformative contexts? This seemed at least part of the question John seemed to be asking: how to apply this insight of awareness into more spaces? Could an exploration of archtypal inner conflicts show a group of people how to check to see if they're holding a unintentional pattern? How could a meta-awareness and exploration within the group help participants to bring those insights out into their communities/lives? How might you design beginner, intermediate, and expert level educations? What shift in awareness/capacity might someone describe/articulate as they progress through each of those layers? Thank you for having this conversation, and exploring the possibilities of what might transform these symptoms ultimately for our greater society.

[@martintore38]

Brilliantly explained Aspasia! These discussions are so important. Look forward to hearing you all discuss and explore the "turning point" or the "moment of insight" that people experience in this process. I've experienced it myself both as a clinician with patients and personally, and it is deeply interesting. That realization feels like it has a deeper meaning related to realizing that the Cartesian framework isn't the truth. It gives a feeling of freedom from moving out of that reductionistic world view and into a world with more depth that you start to realize in yourself and around you. - Martin Toré

[@oxy5100]

I live in chronic pain, and these conversations and therapy has helped on many levels. Thank you!

[@wanderingdude.]

I work with someone with chronic pain, what (practical tips) did you find most helpful for day-to-day coping, and to help motivate yourself to do something hard like physio/ stretches to recover?

[@colorfulbookmark]

I appreciate care of these people. The community is liveable place and life is not hardly so, I think these people are great people.

[@shiracohenyoga3492]

Thank you John and Terri for bringing Aspasia here! :) :) Emotions are so undervalued, yet they are the seed for desire and every act we take, from making love and children to killing a box of cookies or dancing with wild abandon!! So glad you bring this to the fore!! So needed and you state it so simply! Wonderful Australian style ;) I work with emotions in mental health and see shifts happen within weeks where CBT does exactly what you share- just more the symptoms around or pushing it under into other areas- mental, physical, through physiology, affecting psychology or immunity and eventually chronic mental or autoimmune dis-eases.

[@aspasiapsychology]

Thanks so much for this beautiful comment. You sound like you are doing wonderful work to help people who are suffering. Thanks for taking the time to listen and share your thoughts 🙏

[@tiernanking6596]

The lady with the black hair is lethal 🫶

[@aspasiapsychology]

ha, thank you! I hope lethal with a compassionate edge...sometimes.... 😄

[@KairosDBT]

More wonderful content to help us cultivate wisdom.

[@randyreynolds3674]

Thank you all! Living with chronic pain is challenging. I knew nothing about it until being diagnosed with classic trigeminal neuralgia 1 6 years ago. Truly Im appreciative of all your hard work. Shalom.

[@JhoferGamer]

Love your work John

[@oliverjamito9902]

Thank thee for attending unto our OWN and unto one another!

[@janthonycologero9206]

That was beautiful, thank you all. As an aside, I'd love to learn tai chi from John the same way I learned vipassana 😊 🙏🏼💙😊

[@colorfulbookmark]

In some ways I had to respond about my experiences embracing Azuma culture in Korea, I have supplied the supporting reasons about Sharmanism and Eastern Medicines which are sometimes reluctantly approved in community, this is not to Dr.Vervaeke, so I noted this here ^^;;

[@oliverjamito9902]

Remember same with all thy conversations given just for thee all.

[@movewithseth]

Tons of resonance with Feldenkrais work in this conversation! In sessions with clients, I am constantly toggling back and forth between physical and emotional discomfort and how they relate. Also, whatever its original source, a person forms a relationship to the pain itself which has its own emotional dynamics - for example getting into an antagonistic relationship with “my bad shoulder.” Or, if standard health care interventions don’t provide relief, a person begins to think “I’m defective” (often this suggestion is amplified by a doctor who couldn’t come up with a diagnosis) and this mindset will also have to be exposed and addressed for lasting healing to take place.

[@aspasiapsychology]

Thanks so much, Seth. I'd love to talk with you about Feldenkrais work sometime 🙏

[@movewithseth]

That would be great! Found your website - I’ll drop you a message there…

[@normaorlando3538]

Just started to listen and I immediately thought of the book by the famous neurologist Antonio Damasio: "Descartes' Error!"

[@oliverjamito9902]

The I AM singularity! Shared "i" AM come forth! Even upon all the dead

[@oliverjamito9902]

Past come here! Who said ye aloud? Past will say, from thy time given! Time go remind. What else time? With comfort! Indeed from the Comforter I AM!

[@oliverjamito9902]

Time for many who am I? Yes Even at the very tip of time! Thy feet resting upon! Worth more than anything nor everything that exist! Shared "i" AM from the I AM! It's a privilege indeed!

[@oliverjamito9902]

Students how can ye know joy? Evidence from the past! Well said!

[@tiernanking6596]

21:38 birlliant. The experience then and there ,binds it with the feeling and gets them to a place of understanding. Once they come to a place of umderstanding, tramsformation happens as a by product.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Emotions remember even Who can't exist in front!

[@oliverjamito9902]

It's amazing the TRUE VALUE OF NEIGHBORS! Pops and Mothers how else can the SON show off in front? Without My neighbors given? Now is thy WORLD VIEWS will be determined!

[@ElijahLogozar]

Just how helpful are you!???!!! :D

[@geoffreydawson5430]

Is it just me or are Christians attached to the rapture that arises in meditation not necessarily a bad thing as it creates wonderful works of art and communal joy. Buddhists, being an atheist religion, resonate through chanting as a communal goal for pure consciousness. What is before mindfulness?

[@randyreynolds3674]

Thank you!! For someone who has repressed anger for decades who has a year wait to get in to see a therapist what would you suggest to remedy the emotional learning issue. Im currently using IFS meditations and participating in TSCOTI as much as possible. Im emotionally numb and have been for decades. Thank you all again. Shalom ,Namaste, God bless you!

[@aspasiapsychology]

I am so glad you enjoyed our conversation. Howard Schubiner's book, "Unlearn your pain", is a great place to start. It includes a plan you can follow to start working on some of these things. There are also some classic books by John Sarno like "The Mindbody Prescription" which have been very helpful to many with chronic pain, and are based on the same sort of principles. Wishing you very good things ahead 🙏

[@oliverjamito9902]

Emotions come here! Come remind WHO?

[@wehsee912]

🌚☄️❤️💫

[@oliverjamito9902]

What is heavy moving forward my shared "i" AM? Unseen nor seen? Come let us have sincere conversations. Increase go find the little child "i" Increase belongs!

[@jiojiojoj]

Could you get Survive the Jive on for an interview? You, Jonathan and him would make for an interesting debate. Seen as how you all draw on Platonism but have large divergences in conclusions.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Now why not thy fault? Is like remember what is life without conversations given?

[@oliverjamito9902]

For Who sitteth upon the lowest seat LASTS! Pop and my Beautiful But for a SEASON! Among all men for their seasons changes at anytime?

[@oliverjamito9902]

Even my beautiful shared "i" AM even before the #'s?

[@oliverjamito9902]

Guilt and shame come here! Students share thy given!

[@oliverjamito9902]

Remember cherish ye my beautiful shared Feet above grounds in front! Likewise unto all the HEIRS Hosts shared Feet resting upon my Footstool! Remember from thee both! Now many wants to change? Keep watch! Remember do not murder massacre THE SON little Child born "i" AM! Likewise all HOSTS sitteth WITH!!!!

[@oliverjamito9902]

Pop and my Beautiful shared "i" AM. What is the #'s at the end of "MY NAME"? KEEP WATCH!

[@oliverjamito9902]

Unto all the old what increase ye expect? In front. Before ye are born.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Pop will thy little child? Nor unto all my Beautiful not your FAULT! WHY?

[@oliverjamito9902]

Students will say what is singularity unto many wise! Aren't ye all IN FRONT?

[@oliverjamito9902]

Before ye are born. Why be born in front of WHO?

[@annemariesegeat9397]

💓🙏 Thank you. Resonance here. Strong. Amazing soul work from all of you!