Saintliness and the Philosophical Silk Road | Christopher Mastropietro & Andrew Sweeny

[@sherrilawrence662]

John you are incredibly brilliant and compassionate person. I am extremely grateful for your content 🙏 blessings from a fellow Ontario Canada spiritual friend ❤

[@elizabethraper3963]

Thank you! So enjoy the sincere and clear voice of Andrew. He adds an active presence to the mix. I will follow him how and when I can.

[@parallax_media]

Thank you for an incredibly wonderful conversation, as always, and for letting me tell stories of meetings with remarkable men and women.

[@GrapplingwithReality]

I have to read the plague now after that bit about trying to be a saint without God… one of the hardest things I’ve been bereft of in the homelessness of the loss of my faith was the loss of aspiration/internalization of the saints. Powerful stuff!

[@PetrusSolus]

This exchange was excellent. Very much looking forward to your discussion with Gregory Shaw. We can only hope it is soon to come!

[@stian.t]

It's always a pleasure to see and listen to any one of you, and then all three of you together ... that exceeds the sum of you ❤ And yes, please: "to be continued" is a hope I share too ❤

[@lalalalalala739]

Glad to hear a shoutout to Bracken. Good stuff everyone.

[@Sadik.72]

Given that this is the Silk Road series, I would love to see a guest who has some Sufi knowledge/background to contribute. Loving the podcast professor Vervaeke :)

Agreed! I know a very knowledgeable & sincere Sufi! I heartfully eish to connect him here with John. He is a long time mystic, artist, poet and philosopher.

[@RobinTurner]

Yes - I would love to see this too. I'm sure John would get on wonderfully with Yannis Toussulis, for example. Who did you have in mind?

[@LukePluto]

this was so good, thank you

[@pantherstealth1645]

John YOU are helping SO many people. On a level that is tangible yet immeasurable.

[@ben_eighth]

the imitation without comprehension part was an aha moment clear about intimations very enlightening.

[@emilthiels6256]

Hello, Non -rejection, acceptance of the unacceptable, difficult to live with and laughable in the same time! And Chris said it 1;17at the same moment i was writhing it down! A beautiful dialog thank al of you!

[@chdao]

John, if you see this, there is an author, William Douglas Horden, who has many books on what he calls Rational Mysticism, which ties together neoplatonism, theurgy, Daoism, hermeticism, alchemy, animism, Buddhism and Toltec teachings into a universal understanding that I think you will appreciate. For a short introduction, I would recommend The Five Emanations: Aligning the Modern Mind with the Ancient Soul. Another of his books that would elaborate more is, The Way of the Diviner. He even wrote a book called The Toltec I Ching.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Thank you for attending!

[@DougCrawford-z5v]

Let us not complain, but instead be content with the blessings that life has kindly sent. Let us find joy in each day that we live and in the love and grace that reality gives. Perhaps sainthood may be known through fearless and selfless agape love beyond proposition, procedure, perspective participation. We don’t give up in the ever present fear and desire to survive

[@oliverjamito9902]

Students shared "i" AM will say, unto all who gives? Shall receive! From Who sitteth upon the NEW Permanent Foundation will give increase belongs! Comes with GRATITUDE AND HONOR will follow thee!

[@oliverjamito9902]

Yes, remember thy Seats will follow thee!

[@pantherstealth1645]

YES!!!! Thank you!! 🙏

[@moodbox_no]

42:50 Freedom is the throughline

[@Matterful]

There is a really very good and apropos chapter by Danielle A. Layne in *Proclus and his Legacy* entitled *The Platonic Hero.* Heroes were incredibly analogously important for the Greeks, and so for the Neoplatonists. There is an important tonos to be found here amid group-genius and the 'the next Buddha is the Sangha' code.

[@A-Muslim-girl-from-Yemen.2]

I am your sister from Yemen, and by Allah I only spoke out of hunger and distress. My mother, my brothers, and I lessons and tears. We are in a situation that only Allah knows about. Allah is sufficient for us, and He is the best disposer of affairs for those who brought us to this situation. By Allah Almighty, I did not write this appeal out of distress and distress. Poverty, O world, they have felt it So, I hope for you. By Allah Almighty, Lord of the Great Throne, he ate what I had in the house. By Allah, my brothers, he is my brothers by sitting in the house. Who has no food? By Allah, we are in a very difficult situation. We have 6 people entering the house, and my father has died, and there is no one who can depend on us and who lives in it.We live in a rented house because we cannot pay the rent we owe. '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''' My brother, my first words are: I swear to Allah that I will not lie to you or deceive you. I am a Yemeni girl displaced from the war. My family and I live in a rented house in Al-Shahrab 20,000 Yemenis among us, and now we owe 60,000 for 3 months. The owner of the house is one of the people who does not have mercy, by Allah, my brother. He comes every day, insulting us, talking about us, and moving from the house to the street because we were unable to pay him the rent. The neighbors saw us crying and came back.They came back to talk to the neighbors and we were given the weekend. So we made him swear by Allah. He will take us out into the street. Have mercy on him and us. Our country is due to this war and we do not find food for our day, and my brothers and I live in a difficult life. Our father died, may God have mercy on him, and we have no one in this world who was with us in these harsh circumstances. My younger brothers went out into the street and saw...The neighbors eat and stand at heir door in order to give them bread even if they break it. By Allah, to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, they closed the door and expelled them and came back crying. They are dying of hunger. No one has mercy on them and a holiday is returned. I have made a living, and now if one of us helps us with a kilo of flour, I swear to God, I am dying of hunger. My brother, I am an alien to God. Then, I ask you to help me for the sake of God. I ask you, by God, to love goodness and to help me, even if you can, by messaging me on WhatsApp.On this number 00967716649494 and ask for the name of my card and send it and do not be late and may God reward you with all the best, my brothers Sagar, see how they are and help us and save us before they throw us out in the street, you will be lost or we will die of hunger. My family and I ask you, by God, if you are able to help us, do not be late and may God reward you well..`/-~«««~-♡~♡~♡~~•~•~♡~♡~♡~♡~♡~♡♡♡~~~:&?~:~¡~¡~¡~;I.i.i.i.i.i,ﾟ;,⌐,:ﾟ;,⌐:,ﾟ😢🎉🎉😢😢

[@SeiroosFardipour-wf4bi]

the richest countries are mostly Muslim but their people lost their souls,they are scared they worship their bodies their sexual instincts ,their stomach,they are slaves of the higher slaves ,the lowest possible state of matter they reached,for that they worth the noble price of coward ness.

[@BalazsKegl]

Thank you for this nice conversation! I wish there was more staging of the body and embodiment practices. You mentioned singing, dancing, and yoga, but for me most of this was still too abstract and cerebral. There is a large territory to cover between the false tantric "sexy things" and deep transformational sex, with especially dialogical practices like contact dance or movement medicine which for me go hand in hand with diologos. These affected me profoundly, both in terms of healing and spiritual growth.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Remember following thee!

[@RobinTurner]

The part about the badly dressed, beer drinking tulku reminded me of a Sufi teacher in Turkey who gives homilies on Instagram with a glass of rakı (the national drink) in his hand. That kind of mildly deviant behaviour is part of a long tradition in some Sufi orders, such as the Malamatiyya (Melamiler) and Bektashiyya (Bektaşiler). The point is partly to put off the narrow-minded and partly to remind the teacher of their imperfections and avoid spiritual inflation.

[@Joeonline26]

Something about the philosophical silk road approach I find far too liberal. "you can't stay in the hallway (i.e., the silk road), you must choose a room (i.e., a tradition or set of practices)" = 'here's a bunch of options and every individual can choose whichever they like and no single room/option is more or less true or meaningful than any other". If I've misunderstood the notion of the philosophical silk road, do let me know.

[@michaelo5665]

In my opinion the metaphor of a stage is a better analogy of the silk road as a place where all these different things can be communally be used to organically create something new or at the very least allow for variations on the original themes to be riffed on.

[@Joeonline26]

@@michaelo5665 I see the point you're making, but I'm not so sure the metaphor of a stage would align with John's notion of a philosophical silk road.

[@michaelo5665]

@@Joeonline26 He approved of it in this video before they started discussing saintliness.

[@Joeonline26]

@@michaelo5665 If so that would only serve to undermine the notion of the philosophical silk road he has put forward in the past.

[@michaelo5665]

@@Joeonline26 It's an evolving concept and I don't see the contradiction but your welcome to your opinion. I'm curious to how you find them incompatible.

[@royaebrahim2449]

❤❤❤

[@sean2662]

I wonder if the bodhisattva would have more difficulty accepting the end of rebirth than the saint. Like a spout whose felt purpose is to flow versus a spout whose felt purpose is the rhapsody of the closing gesture.

[@SeiroosFardipour-wf4bi]

What a beautiful discussion,before knowing what we must become, at first we have to know what we are right know. An animal who it's priorities are eating ,mating , and cheating,and start all over again .It is not by saying it is or it is not our religion that we could become consciousness the same old story what we can not achive we talk about it as one does not know what love is it find shorter way thinking love is mating

[@michaelo5665]

How does an animal cheat? I'm sincerely asking. To me, cheating is a very human thing that can't exist without a structure of rules.

[@InterfaceGuhy]

Wonderful as always, John. I would love to pick your brain about some if this stuff. However brief… what is the best channel/medium? I have spoken with Gregg and Brendan a little, but I need to e enter dialogos about my SilkRoad, Yours, America, Hermes, Gemistos Plethon, Theraputai, Reverse Engineering and much much more

[@SeiroosFardipour-wf4bi]

Nothingness is nothingness in Cartesian point of view ,not point of sens POTENTIALITY AND UNCONDITIONAL LOVE ,but before we could have a glimpse of it we have to at first harmonize those chaotic mind of ourselves

[@sherrilawrence662]

I would like to make a suggestion! For those of us who might like to make a one time or occasional donation when we can is that a possible option that can be added? I do this through PayPal for content creator's who really deserve compensation for the incredible service provided freely ❤

[@juanjvvictorjohnson]

Where did the Western Christian Empire's baptism by fire come from? Have you not provided yourselves with flaming torches and covered the Earth with the shadows of the fires you have set ablaze; even if you wash your eyes in the Pool of Siloam, you can not catch them breaking in for you are on the outside knocking. If you walk in the "light" of your raging fires surely you will find gold, gold you claimed you could see, gold I covered with the shadow of my hand.

[@moodbox_no]

I'm hearing James Hillman and Corbin

[@DougCrawford-z5v]

Baring the unbareble in self and others out of choosing agape love even when unlovable? Is this the imaginable? Is this the humus, the “ground” of existence, the base of humor, holding opposites finitude and tonus together?

[@globalgulag5586]

‘Sainthood’ refers to a certain class of practitioner who has attained a stable realization of gnosis, never returning back to a conventional point of view, untouched by worldly fixations, although they still abide in our realm to teach and disseminate blessings.

[@globalgulag5586]

May I add that a true saint is the rarest kind of person in the world, equivalent to a Buddha or a Christ.

[@SpencerBarrett1173]

Can you cite this or is it your interpretation?

[@globalgulag5586]

This and many other similar iterations are from the work of David Chaim Smith. He uses the term ‘tzadik’, or realizer.

[@SpencerBarrett1173]

@globalgulag5586 thank you I appreciate it.

[@DougCrawford-z5v]

Is a saint a sinner who balances the true good beautiful in thought feeling action and never gives up trying to do so?

[@brooksroscoe2699]

John says, "The intellectual power is insufficient" and it crucially can lead to individuals who are traveling the Silk Road to be "Dreaming of a system so perfect that nobody has to be good" (T.S. Eliot, The Rock)

[@matthewparlato5626]

Jedidiah... 🙏

[@oliverjamito9902]

Don't mind shaking all the Seats!

[@oliverjamito9902]

What is water down? Keep watch!

[@sohamsuke]

All hail the ophis :)

[@DougCrawford-z5v]

Sainthood is not in grand gestures or fame but in the simple act of loving without shame. Otherwise, noncatagorical, just being without expectation,

[@Angel-cu5mf]

Galatians1:8 Romans 1:21-22 Matthew 11:25-30

[@lizellevanwyk5927]

I once asked the Coven, "Why bother?" and then shortly thereafter shared this song in our chatgroup: kzbin.info/www/bejne/paCah596a5t8ia8si=mk9nM4BSC8lulXqB . Rebecca connected the two, and said: this is why we bother. (I of course proceeded to point out that Don Quixote was delusional, but that spoils the inspirational effect)

[@DougCrawford-z5v]

In the ongoing end, the mystery, the unending story, it's not about what we openly and conscientiously achieve But the agape love and kindness we give and receive.

[@pricklypear6298]

18:51 metamodernism in a nutshell

[@colorfulbookmark]

The corruptions found in religion too make the sensation saintness blamable, my opinion is at the most cases, saint people did contributory to help people in real sense of charity practical, but there is always doubtful elements in religion, it would be something to make sure there is disagreement. Shamanism and Saint, doubtful is always there ^^ The individuation of whom they are would be solution, but this is also subject to be disagreed, because religious people cannot affirm it. The absolutization to Saints, also is subject to be disagreed, because non-religious people cannot affirm. The metaphoric sense, Saintness is sometimes to be rescue purpose, it would be also subject to be disagreement. It is worth to talk though, it would be provision to provide background or foundation, philosophical silk road as a topic is brilliance to mediate how to think about sacred as genuine way.

[@dianagoddard6456]

Christ and the cross is so suffering with

[@shari6063]

You lost me at, “ he might look like Trump supporter.” What does that look like? For the record I’m not American and don’t generally support any politician. I don’t think people realize just how wicked a statement like this really is. 😢

[@Art2GoCanada]

The biker or Trump supporters look like warriors. Light bringers. But I guess he thinks it's criminal. 😢

[@matthewparlato5626]

Love you shari ...this is a Jed convo for sure

[@shari6063]

@@matthewparlato5626 🫂

[@daNihilism]

I am a very begrudgingly voting for him again and yep, that a binary can be set like that hurts almost any credibility of a philosophy.

[@Eudaemoniac]

Bloviating ignoramus

[@geoffreydawson5430]

OOhh, I am so sick of Zen. In the West we live under a conservative, "there is no such thing as society" economic model. But somewhat still within a Christian framework. Namely hardwork and family first, be that protestant or Catholic really. Yet academics in the West on this Kabazinian trainwreck think Mayahana love for all and self is the road to... Neoplatonism? Theravadan Buddhists (forest tradition), sure they are not recognised in the West but are very much part of Western community, follow the same conservative attitude to Catholics, if Catholics are the cause of contemporary Western economic values. Whereby Theravadans argue there is no such thing as society. Only difference, Buddhists are not very good GDP uplifters. Peace is their only goal, sitting , standing and walking. Make money out of that. Oh and there is now a new monastery in Britain for woman under the forest tradition of Ajahn Chah that welcomes anyone who isn't a hungry ghost. Why did the British not conquer Thailand? And that the statues of royal importance have empty circles? I like Christophers background with geometric and organic forms. Meanwhile my firends in the Himalaya's continue to watch science eat away at glaciers. Number 10 Downing street. An asymetry of symetry 1 and 0 or two fives on two dice. In NZ our government chambers have carved wooden circles with zero's crossed by an asymetrical slashes. (Dated video)

[@TheDjpdjp]

OMG He just said Trump supporter as if that couldn't be spiritual. So you brought politics into this conversation. Wow, you lost me as a subscriber. That just showed this is not authentic conversation.