immortality S01E09 Babylon 5 ending

[@TheAdorkableRJ]

''You are not ready for immortality.'' So simple, yet so profound.

[@Lightingwarrior]

Not to mention that form of immortality would cause nothing but destruction and death

[@Diego-zz1df]

Later seasons reveal they didn't do it because of some profound shit, they did it because they didn't want the younger races to achieve the immortality they had.

[@Nephron89]

@@Diego-zz1df that might be in the books but that never shows up on the show later. Can you reference what episode they even mention this again?

[@jacquesmassard9226]

@@Nephron89 It's both. They think the younger races should just do what they say like a parent to a child not figuring out that some day the child has to make their own choices. He is right they are not ready but what right did he have to make that choice for them?

[@Montreal95]

@@Diego-zz1df That's not true. If you say that then you've completely misunderstood the main arc of B5. They did genuinely believe that the younger races weren't ready for immortality and they were completely correct. Would they all have been able to resist the temptation to achieve immortality thru horrible means? No. And as a result, billions would die if not trillions. And someone who's prepared to do that for immortality isn't ready for it, it's a fact. As it was both mentioned and implied in the show both the Shadows and the Vorlons had noble motives in the beginning but were corrupted by their desire to prove that their way was right and the other's way was wrong. But it's absolutely illogical and a leap of imagination to suggest that they wanted to keep immortality for themselves or whatever. They just wanted the younger races to achieve immortality "their way" and that was their problem

[@benrussell-gough1201]

I do love Kosh's throw-away line. Basically: "We've made call and that's the end of it. Live with it or not; we are indifferent to your choice."

[@danwhitehousepc]

"The avalanche as begun. It's too late for the pebbles to vote." (Something like that)

[@travisdavis6778]

I think maybe that shoulda been a warning about trusting vorlons

[@pshalleck]

"We recognize that the younger races have made a decision. But given that it's a stupid-ass decision, we've elected to explode it."

[@travisdavis6778]

@@pshalleck lol

[@suchiuomizu]

@@travisdavis6778 It wasn't really a warning, it was a sign that maybe they should be trusted, even if that wasn't actually the case. Jha'dur's warning about everyone becoming the Dilgar would have almost certainly been accurate. Its just unfortunate the Vorlons eventually proved to be even worse.

[@JnEricsonx]

When in the space of 3 seconds both G'Kar AND Londo are clearly happy, that's a RARE damn moment.

[@tyranusfan]

To quote Garibaldi, "God may work in mysterious ways, but He's a con man compared to the Vorlon."

[@artembentsionov]

Yes...

[@ArgosySpecOps]

@@artembentsionov I read this in Kosh voice 😂

[@christosvoskresye]

0:27 "The superior controls the inferior." Someone overestimated her own position in the pecking order.

[@girlgarde]

Yep. In Deathwalker's case, she was the inferior while the Vorlons were the superior. How fitting that she died being in the position that so many of her victims were in before she killed them.

[@doom7ish]

Pecking Order!

[@biscuitninja]

They should have sent a huge cruiser...

[@Prizrak-hv6qk]

@@girlgarde She was actually whisked away by Mr Morden before getting on that shuttle and was still alive 500 years from then, orchestrating the Earth's "Great Burn" from behind the scenes. She was pretty much running the Drakh after the Great Evacuation and orchestrated their war against Earth. The Vorlons shot at a Minbari shuttle that only housed a Shadow autopilot pod, some biomass and a false sensor projector. Their arrogance always was their undoing.

[@wrathshorts2894]

@@doom7ish Who do you thing the REAL first one was?

[@roberthickson8471]

Most chilling character in all of Babylon 5. "You will fall on one another like wolves" and she's right!

[@russell5078084]

Robert Hickson I think the soul hunters were worse.

[@toomanyaccounts]

soul hunters were not evil.

[@Nighthawke70]

@@russell5078084 Soul hunters are neutral, collectors taking their hobby to the extreme, but with limits. They don't take souls from living beings, one of their first rules of conduct. Yes, they have problem childs, and have made mistakes, some if them whoppers too. "They shall learn, all in good time." Lorien

[@russell5078084]

@@Nighthawke70 there was one episode that showed that the do take living souls. They did that to the population of an entire planet.

[@RichardStrong86]

@@russell5078084 "and have made mistakes, some if them whoppers too" He knows.

[@lovipoekimo176]

I love that the Vorlons could have sent a Fighter or a Transport and it could have easily destroyed the Flyer, but instead they went for the overkill with a frickin' Dreadnought in case anyone dares protest their action.

[@STho205]

The Vorlons don't miss. There was an unseen Shadow vessel guarding her transport. Overkill, possibly not. Her whole bargain was: "What do you WANT?"

[@Blundabus1337]

@@STho205 I dont know if this was the intention of the director but I love that idea.

[@SecondQuantisation]

​@@STho205I did wonder why the Vorlons MISSED with their first shot. That's an interesting way of explaining what would otherwise be somewhat lore breaking

[@neilsanghvi5229]

As much as I love this Dilgar's theatricality and villainy, I can't get over her costuming choice. Prussians in Spaaaace!

[@doom7ish]

*encounter suit noises* "You are not ready for Immortality." Kosh, being scaring as always.

[@MwRYum]

In this case, the Vorlons solved an inconvenient problem for everyone.

[@Lightingwarrior]

Not to mention probably saved billions of lives and the galaxy falling into chaos

[@Dawnlighter]

Gotta love the Vorlon attitude. They are like "yeah, we did that. What ya gonna do, eh?" :D

[@LetBBB6345789]

Not quite unlike the US invasion of Iraq, mass killings, destruction and mass displacements. Not even sanctions.

[@anastasiosgkotzamanis5277]

In the episode "Eyes", a colonel working for internal affairs asked Garibaldi why nothing was done for the Vorlons killing Deathwalker. Though Garibaldi answered in a civil way (for him) i could hear the words in his mind: -Feel free to go knock on Kosh's door and demand some answers. I promise i will come to your funeral.

[@harvestcanada]

Anastasios Gkotzamanis I consider Babylon 5's Deathwalker to be one of the most scariest ever to grace film and tv. Just imagine if aliens like deathwalker really do existed, we would definitely stay at home. her eyes make it work, because it's so strange yet familiar. great make up

[@ILuvSmexyShowgirls]

+Anastasios Gkotzamanis It's kind of funny how many humans in the show were so incredibly arrogant that they thought they could bring any of the other races to heel. I wonder how many Earth vessels the Vorlons had to destroy before humanity got the message that they shouldn't f'ing mess with some races.

[@Theomite]

+Anastasios Gkotzamanis Considering that Internal Affairs was probably already working with the Shadows by then, he likely knew better than to try.

[@dwightwilliams5892]

I fear that someone who fancies themselves akin to "Deathwalker" in skills and intentions already exists among us. We won't know who, we won't know where, and we won't know how until it's almost too late.

[@christosvoskresye]

Oh, there have been people who FANCIED THEMSELVES that for a long time. Ever hear of Countess Elizabeth Báthory?

[@LordZontar]

"Funny, isn't it? We finally find a reason to keep Jha'Dur alive and the Vorlons smoke her for the same reason."

[@themisspultone]

They say God works in mysterious ways. He's a con man compared to the Vorlons.

[@EyesOfFrozenMeat]

Sarah Douglas has turned a lot of what would otherwise be forgettable characters into immediately recognizable figures.

[@karimsonsafehold9233]

That Nazi like uniform poison, arrogant look, and wearing of the gloves. Very SS 4th Reich

[@deplorable_bitter_clinger7482]

I don't know why some say that Michael O'Hare's acting is "wooden". He seems to me to play a character who just under the surface is seething and boiling with anger because (at this point in the show) he doesn't understand some of the things that have happened to him. O'Hare said in an interview that he wasn't the typical gung ho or snappy repartee type of leader that we are used to seeing in other shows like Star Trek, SG1, or even B5:Crusade. His display of disgust at Ja'dur is understated but perfect.

[@scottgates4979]

Michael had his good days and his bad days. When you find out the WHYS of those, you kinda tear up for him.

[@Frustratedartist2]

Deplorable_Bitter_Clinger Sinclair was unique... Sheridan was a (very good) typical Kirk-type

[@kurtjk01]

Well now that's just damn rude. He was a good man and a fine actor.

[@Paerigos]

Well - in Stargate - yes you got O´Neill who was essentialy toned down Garibaldi... but then you had Hammond who could be less serious Picard... in fact - you get people all over the "spectrum" who can be leaders and simply lead differently.

[@travisdavis6778]

I always thought Sinclair was great and well acted, especially near the end of the season when the show was finding its groove while I also like Bruce I think it was unfortunate why ohare had to leave the show

[@jpowell180]

Damn, B5 was a good show..... When all is said and done, it will be Joe Stracynski's greatest "monument" - he poured his blood, sweat, and tears into that show - writing the vast majority of the episodes personally.

[@PackerBronco]

An ending that becomes even richer as the series progresses and we learn more about the Vorlons and the ultimate fate of humanity.

[@LordSerion]

Kosh doing the ultimate mic drop is soooooo dope!

[@SaintDaisley]

It was a great scene because the visceral superficial aspect of it hides the much more cerebral implications. Kosh, and by extension the Vorlons, didn't kill her as an act of morality or to prevent the potential spiral of vampiric murder Deathwalker hoped for.....it was because they thought we weren't ready to be immortal. The Vorlons blatantly resort to brute force to impose their will and maintain their plans for us all, and they get away with it because Deathwalker is an acceptable target. She's an acceptable target so blindingly big and acceptable that she masks the cold, merciless agenda of the by this point somewhat villainous Vorlons behind it.

[@ILuvSmexyShowgirls]

+SaintDaisley I remember what Lyta said about Kosh and his race when Kosh's replacement showed up and started treating her like something less than a pet and more like a possession. That aside from Kosh (who may have been the only one who cared), the rest of the Vorlons actually didn't give a fuck one way or another how many of the lesser races died for the Vorlon's agenda.

[@ARC5]

+SaintDaisley hell it could be even simpler then that. everyone knew or thought that the vorlons had something like this and that by having it they would be one step closer to them. this was the whole of the vorlon race saying "get back in your place".

[@melee-dexterdexterious2878]

+SaintDaisley come to think of it. why would the vorlons choose to demonstrates their superiority in a so blatant way, the vorlons could easily assasinates the Deathwalker after she jumped to the hyperspace.. ? With their knowledges, i'm imagined that it would easy for them to create a sort of hyperspace blanket which pulling the DeathWalker starcraft in whilst erasing all of possible traces whatsoever sort of temporary hyperspace blackhole. But that action alone would have sows distrusts among all the younger races which eventually in all probability lead to in-fighting and backstabbing which eventually falls in favour to the shadow's cause. So, yes, they choice is to teach a lesson or two to the younger races the fact "Big Brother are watching you" themed lesson.

[@Montreal95]

whatever the motives, Kosh's 100% right. We are not ready for immortality. This action was 1000% justified, not villainous.

[@artembentsionov]

Kosh was very old, probably a million years old. His replacement Ulkesh was younger and more arrogant.

[@p12psicop]

The Shadows gave her the anti-agapic. This was their opening shot in the coming war. The Vorlon ship fired twice. The first shot was an apparent miss, but it was actually used to stun the Shadow escort vessel that was shielding her ship through the trip.

[@ethenallen1388]

We're talking about a bunch of guys who tracked down a ship containing a stolen Centaury artifact, blew up the ship, retrieved the artifact and delivered it back to Londo on Babylon 5, presumably without station security noticing it, all within a few hours of said artifact being stolen and I don't even know how the Shadows would have know about the theft in the first place. The Shadow also infiltrated part of the Psy-core and enlisted then Vice President Clark to their cause. The plan you're describing sounds pretty ham-fisted for the Shadows. More likely the energy of the Jump Gate threw the cruiser's targeting system off.

[@Winter-The-Masquerade]

Jha'dur: The key ingredient in the serum cannot be synthesized; it must be taken from living beings. For one to live forever, another one must die. You will fall upon one another like wolves. It'll make what we did pale by comparison. The billions who live forever will be a testimony to my work, and the billions who were murdered to buy that immortality will be the continuance of my work. Not like us? You will become us. Sinclair: Will it work with an animal? Jha'dur: What? Sinclair: I'm just thinking, if this serum works on everybody then biology shouldn't matter so, it work with an animal, right? Jha'dur: Um... Nooo? Sinclair: I think you're lying but even if that were true couldn't we just create mindless clones use- Jha'dur: DAMMIT, You are ruining my evil serum with stuff that's not EVIL!!!

[@ethenallen1388]

She knew that the key ingredient could not be synthesized. She probably knew that it only occurred in a very specific set of cells. Most likely the brains of animals with human or better levels of sophistication with a few decades of life experience. Tell me Winter the Masquerade, on a scale of 1 to 10, just how stupid do you think she was?

[@spionsilver9626]

" the key ingredient in the " anti-agatic " .. not " the key ingredient in the serum " :) its all in the detail

[@PhileasLiebmann]

-Enters command center -Has high profile political prisoner assassinated -"You are not ready for immortality" -Refuses to elaborate further -Leaves

[@ThePathStrider]

"Well! All's well that ends well, huh?"

[@mzbarsk]

Londo was one of my favorite characters. So flawed, yet so interesting.

[@Sargonarhes]

And one can only wonder what Deathwalker's last thoughts were when she saw the Vorlon ship that suddenly open fired on her.

[@raf7550]

"...oh fuc-" *BOOM*

[@tjw9985]

Not Fair!!

[@grendelum]

_”oh no, not again...”_

[@wrathshorts2894]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA- boom

[@crowtservo]

“Are they firing at me?”

[@RecklessFables]

That was Sarah Douglas as Deathwalker! I remember her from Conan the Destroyer!

[@JnEricsonx]

And Ursa from Superman 2. I met her about 9 odd years ago.

[@IanPeon]

One of the greatest endings for any work of fiction ever, and with one of the few noble things the Vorlons did the entire series.

[@Proximax9]

Not so sure about noble tho :D vorlons need humans as cannon fodder against the shadows

[@Cenindo]

2:03 -- the Vorlon ship shoots twice. Would they really miss on such close range? It may be wondered if the show is already hinting at something more, like a cloaked Shadow vessel protecting the other ship that needed to be taken out first.

[@Proximax9]

Or just the gunner was a bit rusty after not having to shoot anyone for 1000 years 🤣 Tbf, I wondered this too. Would make sense for them to hit on first hit

[@STho205]

Her whole proposition was "What do you WANT?" Yes she was guarded by Shadows just as Mr Morden was.

[@spectre111]

"The Superior controls the Inferior" Yeah, well that applies to you as much as anyone else.

[@blackanimals6337]

hence why the usa are israel's bitch

[@hmcbride59v2]

Sounds like a GOP tagline.

[@Diego-zz1df]

Keep in mind the dilgar lost a war with the Earth Alliance and apparently almost nothing was left of them. So as far as "superior" goes, they're below one of the least technologically advanced species in the show.

[@suchiuomizu]

@@Diego-zz1df After the war they were confined to their homeworld. The reason they were almost extinct was their sun went nova afterwards. And honestly Earth wasn't that weak on a galactic scale, only compared to races like the Minbari and First Ones. The reason Earth got involved in that war was the Dilgar were attacking many in the League and no one else was getting involved to help them.

[@LordZontar]

@@suchiuomizu "After the war they were confined to their homeworld. The reason they were almost extinct was their sun went nova afterwards." Somehow I can't help feeling the Vorlons had something to do with that one as well.

[@drevilatwork]

man, that was a good show. full of gems

[@princeofhavoc]

What I would have given to see the look her face as she realizes her legacy ends as a stain in space, atomized to float harmlessly throughout her universe until the end of time.

[@1MarkKeller]

Damn I miss this show! I miss this decade also!

[@mistere1984]

Have to agree with Kosh. Her formula was a short cut. It's wasn't worth it if so many had to die. If Humanity ever gains immortality, it'll be because we earn it, not because we cheat for it.

[@BLZ231]

Right now scientists are working on methods to slow and even reverse the aging process. It’s already been used successfully on mice, so in principle it’s only a matter of time before they develop it for humans as well. Obviously it won’t be an actual immortality serum, as even if we cure aging we are still susceptible to illness or injury. But considering that the aging process is what makes our bodies break down and become more vulnerable to ailments I think it would be a positive development, as people could have a higher standard of living for longer, and slowly withering away in old age could be a thing of the past before long.

[@l.greenwood8096]

One of the better episodes. Really taught a lesson on what the B5 Universe was really like.

[@liamsouthwell27]

That moment when Daddy comes in and fixes all the squabbling children's problems XD

[@suchiuomizu]

Though daddy's generation needed grandpa to step in over their problems a few years later.

[@TheKnightOfSmite]

I wonder if the Shadows kind of plotted this one, gave her the immortality stuff or helped it along with the intent it would throw the galaxy into chaos, but then when the Vorlon got involved it upped the ante for the war. Edit: huh I was right JMS later on said that was the thing he was going for- Deathwalker had shadow tech that was to spread chaos throughout the galaxy just as the Shadows were waking up and Kosh's involvement here meant the gloves were starting to come off leading to a broader space opera and the poisoning of Kosh

[@Wenchework]

You know when Kosh shows up (blep)is about to happen,and Londos responce was soooooo classic him

[@jakerocinante1133]

Kosh’s statement rings true as much as Deathwalkers do. “You are not ready for immortality.”

[@amarieoflothlorien]

She is right though, we would slaughter each other for immortality!

[@toddkes5890]

+amarieoflothlorien Can you imagine if the Shadows had stopped the Vorlon mission? How much chaos would be the result?

[@NearVSMello]

+Todd Kes The mission of the Shadows is the same as the Vorlons. To guide the younger races. They merely follow a different path. This immortality serum would in the long run sabotage the capacity for war and natural selection as well as that of peace and order. Had the Vorlons not stopped them, I imagine Death Walker would find a very different ship waiting for her in hyperspace...

[@amarieoflothlorien]

+Todd Kes Humans don't need the shadows for chaos and despair.

[@amarieoflothlorien]

+Todd Kes Humans don't need the shadows for chaos and despair.

[@toddkes5890]

amarieoflothlorien True, but can you imagine how much more strife would occur as humans had each other (and various aliens) killed in order to live forever?

[@alex_saint-matthews]

If anyone wants to see what humanity would look like if we ever attained immortality, read the ‘Battle Angel ALITA’ mangas-Jha’dur was correct in her assessment.

[@greggg4011]

I'd like to have seen the debriefing for Delenn when she tried to explain how the Vorlons casually destroyed a transport ship

[@suchiuomizu]

She was still a member of the Grey Council at that point, she did not have anyone to explain to, other than the rest of the Council. They probably did not care that much, and if they did, they understood the Vorlons were one of the only races stronger than them.

[@LordZontar]

I think "Vorlons did it" would have ended any conversation on the matter.

[@mathewlau1733]

Man did I love that ending.

[@deanlawson3610]

Sarah Douglas is a simply fantastic actress. Especially in villain form

[@russell5078084]

kosher was right. human beings are not ready for immortality. most of us don't know how to spend the time God has granted us now wisely.

[@Panax07]

My favorite season 1 ep. If you guys like this, I recommend reading the fanfiction "The Dilgar War".

[@toddkes5890]

+Panax07 By Lightning Count? Yes.

[@kuribayashi84]

+Panax07 I enjoyed the hell out of that masterpiece. Probably the best Fanfiction I've ever read. So good that I consider it, and its follow-up "The Last Star" (about the Battle of Proxima 3, sadly on hold for several years now) canon.

[@girlgarde]

I've read part of it, Deathwalker seemed to sincerely care a great deal about her people and committed her various war crimes to in her mind, save them from extinction and to ensure that they remained strong. The road to hell was indeed paved with good intentions in her case. Strangely enough, Londo Mollari who openly rejoiced at her death would later end up going down the same dark path except that he had people in his life who warned him against it which drove him to try and fight the dark path he was going down and despite his many hardships, he saved his people in the end because unlike Deathwalker, he had a conscience.

[@danielkerber8667]

Yep its an epic like no other.

[@lightpostfilms9721]

And Something for me to review thank you.

[@BuckFutterd]

I'm with some of you, she was a very very chilling character. It's a shame she was only on for one episode and killed off. But she is correct, we would be on each other like wolves in trying to live forever. That is why the Capt. was so disgusted and didn't say anything more except get it off the station. She knew human nature better than he did and she was telling the truth. Remember everyone she is only one of her kind left or was left, after the Dilgar war they where quarantined in their system and all of their Quantum element was taken so they didn't have interstellar travel anymore and their sun went nova. I loved Babylon because it showed that the future wasn't as cut and dry as we have been led to believe for many years on other shows. Its showed humans being the little guy and not that strong, it showed how everyone including humans had ulterior motives for many things.

[@theforgottenelitedangerous4827]

A shame there was no further history on the dilgar war in the show that could have been a nice prequel and bridge to the crusade series

[@StaticSkyTV]

2 1/2 minutes of pure scifi gold. It’s like a précis showing why B5 is so excellent.

[@ThePariahDark]

The one thing I would never want, to exist forever. Humans will never be ready for immortality. Our finite nature gives our existance meaning. Nothing matters if you have nothing to lose.

[@andreaswidham3607]

If you want to get to know Jha'dur in more detail, you should check out the fanfiction Dilgar War by Lightning Count. It's worthy if being canon.

[@smcneal057]

The Vorlon answer to "What do you want?"

[@calkelpdiver]

Wrong group, the Shadow's ask "What do you want?" The Vorlon's ask "Who are you?"

[@jmr2408]

and Lorien asks: "Where are you going?"

[@JohnDoe-mk3ch]

I thought it was "Why are you here?"

[@jmr2408]

John Doe You are right, but in the series finale he also asks 'The Final Question' which is: "Where are you going?" ^_^

[@calkelpdiver]

And all of those got wrapped into Crusade. Who are you? What do you want? Where are you going? Who do you serve? And who do you trust? JMS was just slick with all of this.

[@hey.hombre]

When I watched this episode it reminded me of a movie back in the 70's I saw. It involvesd a woman who would prolong her life by taking the life of others. She had a special ring that had a curved cutting edge with built in cup. She would strike at the base of the neck and extract spinal fluid. Then she would drink it to stay young.

[@ryandtibbetts2962]

ese.hombre The movie was called The Leech Woman and it was made by Universal-International back in the late 1950's.

[@jefff3886]

Na'Toth (this Na'Toth) was so great. I absolutely loved that character. Especially so in "Parliament of Dreams," when she and G'Kar expose and neutralize G'Kar's would-be assassin, and send him off with "You will know fear. You will know pain. And then you will die. Have a safe trip."

[@paperclip9558]

One of the best motivation for villain ever written.

[@CeasarBergonia]

What's amazing is that the Vorlon ship actually missed on the first shot.

[@Dunedan2]

I like to think it didn't miss...it destroyed a hidden shadow vessel that was going to pick her up before she got anywhere. XD

[@AWriterWandering]

I'm guessing the first image of the screen was either stock footage or ended up being moved to an earlier part of the scene, since it doesn't seem to make sense for the gate to open, close, and immediately open again.

[@moochincrawdad]

It's funny but I vaguely understood why the Vorlons killed Deathwalker but I came to fully understand only when I watch Babylon 5: Thirdspace. "One mistake - of so many" the Vorlons have been there!

[@sunnchilde]

Destroying that ship must have taken only the smallest fleck of their power.

[@saphorr]

And yet they still miss the ship on the first shot!

[@annoyed707]

Clearly even the Vorlons are sometimes just getting warmed up.

[@yaldabaoth2]

Nah. It would just be boring to hit on the first shot. The feeling of "Oh, shit, Vorlons shooting at me!" would be missing.

[@sunnchilde]

Yaldabaoth I feel sorry for that fleet the Centauri sent in to Vorlon space.

[@Cenindo]

I believe there is a fan theory that a second, invisible vessel was also present: something of Shadow origin, the Shadows standing behind Deathwalker's project. The Vorlons had their priorities in order and took out that vessel first.

[@ethenallen1388]

She knew how to play the system. Fortunately, the Vorlons were not in the system.

[@Bfdidc]

There is a part of this episode where she lets lose with an evil laugh that really showed how evil she is.

[@girlgarde]

I remember that evil laugh all too well. She got what she deserved in the end.

[@trinitymplayers]

Was that Na'Toth standing next to G'Kar? Why would she be allowed to be there, after what happened earlier? And I thought she'd be delighted at Deathwalker's demise. (On the other hand, it was so unexpected, and knowing Na'Toth, she might be disappointed that she had nothing to do with it.)

[@suchiuomizu]

Diplomatic immunity? Plus Jha'dur was already on the ship. Not like Na'toth could do anything to her.

[@jamieolberding7731]

Commander Jeffrey Sinclair: [irritated] "Get her the hell off of my Station!"

[@1701spacecadet]

And there is the hypocrisy of the Vorlons. 'You are not ready for immortality'. When the Vorlons have been at war with the Shadows for millions of years and are only fighting out of habit with no memory of WHY.

[@robland3253]

It fires twice, once to destroy the shadow, another for the transport

[@louispower7822]

I love how they are watching the view screen and the jump gate opens. Kosh arrives and it goes back to being closed until it opens for a second time. Nice.

[@trowawayacc]

Brilliantly executed. 😂 kosh was definetly snooping in and said well fuck that.

[@PyroMancer2k]

Better response would have been, "Because someone had to do the right thing."

[@davidkelly4210]

That wasn't the motivation though. The Vorlons are fucking evil incarnate, we just don't know (at this point) becuase they're hiding.

[@madnimrod2489]

Love this scene. Deathwalker's all arrogant and stuff, and then gets creamed by the Vorlons. So much for immortality, eh?

[@patrickstivers377]

Mad Nimrod Or did she? I'd like to think that parties smuggled her off the station via other means and took her to where the dark forces were gathering.

[@madnimrod2489]

Patrick Stivers If you slow down the video after the vorlon cruiser annihilates her ship, you can see her body fly by, still strapped into her seat. My family spotted it on the DVD set, so it might be hard to spot in a low-quality vid like this.

[@patrickstivers377]

Would it be that difficult for the Shadows to throw a body in there for show?

[@madnimrod2489]

Patrick Stivers Considering they didn't have a presence on B5 before Morden showed up (he arrived with them), yes I'd think so. Plus, who says the Shadows would want her? The Shadows had scientists that were BEYOND amazing, the sort that makes Deathwalker look like an elementary-schooler playing with vinegar and baking soda. Who says they didn't have their OWN scientists (theirs or a subordinate race) doing the same thing Deathwalker did?

[@Bfdidc]

+Mad Nimrod If anything, the Shadows would have offered her a job.

[@davidhenderson3400]

The Vorlon just did what every one else wanted to.

[@kfeltenberger]

The question really is, Was Deathwalker actually on the ship or was it a switcheroo as they've done before.

[@ethenallen1388]

I think Kosh made sure she was aboard before signaling the cruiser to go ahead.

[@Omikron1112]

A Beautiful ending if there ever was.

[@RichardStrong86]

Super advanced technology and the Vorlons miss the first time.

[@martingeorge2508]

According to jms they didn't, makes me wonder who else was destroyed.

[@charlesw5919]

Lol. No one in that room shed a tear.

[@Bfdidc]

Indeed, Londo got a good chuckle out of it.

[@charlesw5919]

Bfdidc Yup, nobody likes a psychopath who has the ability to commit genocide.

[@JnEricsonx]

And three seconds before, even G'Kar was pleasently suprised-how often do you see both G'Kar AND Londo both happy at once?

[@Leondegrance2]

Na'toth may have shed a tear of joy. :P

[@trinitymplayers]

She looked stunned, possibly disappointed that she didn't get to do the job herself. Or that it was so quick.

[@BlueGoblin1]

She was right the superior rule the inferior. As demonstrated by Kosh.

[@Asher_Tye]

what happens when you attract the attention of the big boys.

[@logandarklighter]

I for one wish this scene was extended to include what Commander Sinclair and Garibaldi said next: SINCLAIR: "Well, they say that God moves in mysterious ways." GARIBALDI: "Yeah, well He's a piker compared to the Vorlon." 😂😂😂

[@MichaelClark-uw7ex]

We may not be ready for immortality but i'd sure like to give it a try but not if it meant killing another person.

[@pendarpr]

Kosh, after 7 of 9, my favorite SciFi Character

[@Lag1914]

AHHH Mr. Morden

[@Ephisus]

What a show.

[@mimip5410]

Vorlons don't really need to reason or sort diplomatic clarification about the things they do . If one race had the advantage of achieving immortality than that will leave the other younger races at a disadvantage and Vorlons are all about the right balance amongst the young ones.

[@roguishpaladin]

Vorlons don't care about balance amongst the younger races. They just wanted the younger races to obey and be orderly. They cared about this primarily because the immortality serum was almost certainly Shadow tech.

[@Aivottaja]

Balance meaning "control". It wasn't completely altruistic.

[@ronp6009]

Thought it was cool that the Vorlon ship just waltzed in and destroyed a Minbari vessel.

[@cya2139]

Both were absolutely right about humanity!

[@briandillon4305]

The first shot of the war between the younger races ,the shadows and Vorlons..was the dilgar war....

[@Theomite]

+Brian Dillon Always irritated me that we never got to see that.

[@lucasbachmann]

It is suspicious that the Dilgar sun just happened to go nova on time to allow Earth to become a galactic superpower in time for the Minbari war.

[@suchiuomizu]

Calling Earth a superpower at that point is a big stretch, with the Minbari and First Ones being vastly more powerful and the Narn and Centauri of similar power. Earth was just willing to help where others weren't. Humans can't really be considered a superpower except for our brief glimpse of 1,000,000 years in the future where humanity appears to take the place of the Vorlons.

[@mrprototype438]

You are correct in hindsight. However at the time of the Dilgar war Humanity had no knowledge of the Minbari or the Vorlon. We believed ourselves a Super Power after that war.

[@PackerBronco]

Well the Vorlons knew the prophecy as well as the Minbari if not better. So they knew who the humans were and who they were going to become. They might even have known who Sinclair was.

[@mattwho81]

And just like that the Vorlons reveal their role as protectors of the younger races. Like parents slapping a lit match out of the hands of kids and shouting, “No!”

[@ericfluellen8957]

You have to love this discussion of morality.

[@STho205]

The first shot was no gunners ranging shot or miss. They brought a Dreadnought, there was a Shadow guarding her ship. The whole theme of this episode was "What do YOU WANT?" that would lead to doom and becoming evil themselves. JMS confirmed that in an after series interview. Foreshadowing in S1 and 2.

[@ethenallen1388]

If the Shadows were that invested in her activities then why didn't they tell her to stay away from Babylon 5 where Kosh could call in an air strike to stop her?

[@STho205]

@@ethenallen1388 why didn't Hamlet kill his uncle at the end of Act 1?

[@ethenallen1388]

@@STho205 Because he wanted his uncle to burn in hell which required his uncle not being "in a state of grace" when killing him.

[@STho205]

@@ethenallen1388 that was in act 2...and was yet another excuse for extending the play until nobody believed it. A real Dane would have left his dad's ghost on page 4, gone into the hall and stabbed his uncle. His friend's would have been cool with it.

[@bthsr7113]

That right there shows just how much the other races don't want to mess with the Vorlons. A unilateral choice forced upon an ascendant power, and they never answer for this. It's a pretty clear message that they can do what they want. For some reason I remembered this scene as a Vorlon fighter taking out a substantially larger shuttle. I was going to point out how a mere fighter having a sustained beam weapon, usually reserved for much larger ships, of such potency showed the tech gap, but the Vorlons didn't seem to take a chance here, and used a... Not sure what weight class but it was definitely bigger.

[@suchiuomizu]

That was their biggest ship, other than the planet killers.

[@quinn7876]

Glengarry Glen Kosh: Always Be Cryptic

[@mwhyte1979]

What's interesting is that she's on a Minbari ship when the Vorlon ship takes her out and even the Minbari are like " we've got no problem with that".

[@ethenallen1388]

For the Minbari, there were the Vorlons and then there was God.

[@jefff3886]

As a member of the Grey Council, to Delenn the loss of a single shuttle was inconsequential. It would be like me losing a $5 bill. An annoyance, but nothing more. And considering what she got in return for that shuttle, she may well have thought that she got the better end of the deal.

[@Ispeakthetruthify]

@@ethenallen1388 Probably the other way around....

[@mikes252]

god damn what a good show this was

[@Thaumh]

He's not wrong.

[@harvestcanada]

I just saw the 2021 version of Dune, and if they bring Jah'Dur back for dilgar/Earth war arc back for the B5 reboot, Rebecca Ferguson (Lady Jessica) would fit the bill.

[@tails0420ify]

I think the correct answer to avoid preying upon each other would have been cloning. Everybody has a clone of themselves made and extract the serum from the clones. No need to attack others.

[@ethenallen1388]

Cloning each other for harvesting or falling on each other like wolves, the difference is vague. I think she would have still won the argument.

[@martykarr7058]

Interesting. The ingredients for the immortality serum in B5 are the same as the ones for a Philosopher's Stone in Fullmetal Alchemist.

[@dwaugh2215]

guess she didn't expect to see that coming

[@Alexander_Kale]

Notice how Kosh said"not ready for immortality". He didn't care about the billions who would die, he just didn't want humans as they are now to live forever. Jhadur was right. The superior controls the inferior, indeed.

[@suchiuomizu]

He was talking about all the races, not just humanity. And the fact they would fight over it is one of the reasons the Vorlons would be strongly against it. That's the sort of thing the Shadows would love.

[@Alexander_Kale]

@@suchiuomizu Doesn't really change anything I said. The Vorlons regard themselves as superior and the younger races as lesser beings, who they have the right to control. Which I agree does fit very well with what is later revealed about the shadow/Vorlon dynamic.

[@blindavocado]

When the big debate was happening about using human embryonic stem cells for research I thought of this speech in this episode.

[@snelson134]

And now scientists are saying that anti-aging can be achieved by transfusing blood from the young.

[@weldonwin]

I think that blood transfusing thing, sounds like quackery really. That somehow, infusing blood from someone young can reverse the aging process, sounds like the story of Countess Bathory keeping herself young by bathing in human blood.

[@Asher_Tye]

snelson134 Wasn't that the subplot of a Simpsons episode?

[@toomanyaccounts]

those stem cells would have been thrown out. we do autopsys all the time and tissue from dead humans is used all the time in research. there is no difference in between using stem cells from discarded embryos to advance research and using tissue from a person that died in a car crash or from what at the time was an unknown disease or medical condition.

[@VoodooV1]

Every time I read some article about someone thinking they’re one step closer to discovering an immortality drug, I think of this scene. Even if immortality was as simple as taking a pill and doesn’t require taking a life like Deathwalker’s drug, it would be fundamentally bad. There would be no incentive for change, things would stagnate. You know damned well the drug would be accessible to only the Uber-wealthy and not regular folk. Kosh is right, we are not ready.

[@clerickolter]

I would have had Kosh meet DW on the ship on her way out, he fries her with his Vorlon power and looks at them and returns to his quarters, would have been better IMHO.

[@1darkironman1]

Kosh is like, "no"

[@annaparenna7020]

Too funny! Basically the same ending as 'Gremlins'!😂